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The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

• theseatoms 9y ago
  > The author is often asked for her thoughts on certain forms of exercise, such as yoga or pilates, which she also covers on her website. What she tells people, repeatedly, is that “movement is essential.” The exercise economy is the real back pain industry.
  • havetocharge 9y ago
    But please don't use this argument to justify avoiding a little home exercise.
  • nostromo 9y ago
    Exercise fixed all of my back pain issues. I do heavy deadlifts. I can't tell you how many people told me that it would hurt my back. But it turns out having a muscular back to support my spine was exactly what I needed.
    • andreyf 9y ago
      Seems like this advice could hurt a lot of people if they have a different issue with identical systems.
      • whiddershins 9y ago
        I'm not going to say deadlifts are recommended in every case, and I have no medical qualifications. I have done a bunch of research and have tons of anecdotes which indicate that with proper form deadlifts are far safer and more effective for a wide range of people than is commonly imagined. And the form is rather easy to get right.
    • woofyman 9y ago
      I've fixed my bouts of lower back muscle spasms by strengthening my abs.
      • buzzybee 9y ago
        The core is so important. Core + breathing exercises will improve any other activity.
    • pcurve 9y ago
      this was true for my Mon in her 70s. Her back problem got a lot better when she started doing exercise and gained more muscle mass around her back.
    • 0xbear 9y ago
      Same here. Went from being unable to lift even 100 lbs without pain to 495lbs. I don’t recommend going quite that far to everyone, but 315lbs should not be a problem at all for men.
    • icelancer 9y ago
      Deadlifting heavy loads improve hypertrophy and muscle; this definitely helps. People seem to understand that. But those reading this may also be swayed by the fact that properly performed deadlifts (and squats) increase proprioception around the back and also stimulate osteoblasts and bone growth, while killing - over time - anterior pelvic tilt, which contributes to low back pain. It's more than just muscle. Deadlifts really do a hell of a lot for the body. (They also stimulate growth hormone!)
  • lr4444lr 9y ago
    Perhaps, but exercise has so many other contingent benefits with so few comparable risks, not to mention it can be low cost of free that it's not really fair to compare the two.
• SilasX 9y ago
  >Also consider this: In a poll at a 2009 conference in Bonita Springs, Florida, 99 out of 100 surgeons who were asked whether they’d elect to have lumbar fusion surgery if it were recommended to them said “absolutely not.” Wow. They charge $80k for a surgery they wouldn't even use themselves for the very condition they recommend it for? To reverse the famous quote: "you know what they call ineffective procedures that persist solely on inertia and avarice? Medicine."
  • jackweirdy 9y ago
    Similarly I fractured my foot out here in the US and a podiatrist told me it absolutely needed surgery. I flew home to have an orthopaedic surgeon look at it in the UK, they gave me one of those plastic ankle boots, and told me to slowly ease back into walking over the course of a month.
    • cmurf 9y ago
      Doctors in the U.S. are paid per procedure. They are not salaried. And they aren't paid to make you better. They're paid to try (via the procedure). No refunds.
      • lsc 9y ago
        Other models are available; if you are in Silicon Valley and want doctors who are salaried rather than paid per procedure, you can use Kaiser. Is it better? I don't know, really; I use them now and think they are okay, but I'm not really medically qualified. I imagine there are similar health groups in other parts of the country.
    • peteretep 9y ago
      NHS doctors as gatekeepers works both ways. I've had to beg and beg for referrals to specialists for things that clearly required them before. Once you get past that stage though, care is top notch.
  • tome 9y ago
    It doesn't say that they are spinal surgeons.
• andreyf 9y ago
  On the flip side, I had lower back pain of varying intensity for about two years before it got really bad really suddenly and I went to someone recommended by someone knowledgeable in the subject who fixed it in about 30 minutes of some serious stretching and twisting and turning [1]. Two months with not a hint of pain and I'm pretty sure this is yet another example of the medical industry being incentivized into ignoring existing solutions. MD I went to prescribed 4 meds (pain killer, muscle relaxant, topical gel, something else), did and xray before telling me I have arthritis at 30, and referring me to a list of acupuncturists. If there's a lot of profit to be made in treating back pain, why would anyone ever fix it in a for-profit system? 1. https://www.yelp.com/biz/tri-valley-bodyworks-dublin https://www.yelp.com/biz/tri-valley-bodyworks-dublin
  • royinferno 9y ago
    Nice thanks for the rec
  • tptacek 9y ago
    This argument has always seemed pretty silly to me. Why, if this is how the market for medical services worked, would medical services cure any problem, when they could find ways to milk those problems for recurring revenue? Why aren't malaria or stomach ulcers "chronic manageable illnesses", rather than curable ones?
    • andreyf 9y ago
      It's a very cynical argument, I'll give you that, and I'm certainly biased by wasting a bunch of time & money on x-rays and drugs and acupuncture. A slight more realistic explanation may involve liability - twisting and stretching someone who complains of back pain may be hard to teach / accredit at scale in a way that doesn't sometimes end disastrously, and MDs prescribing meds eliminates those cases of extreme liability. Not sure about Malaria or stomach ulcers, but likely because those who developed the drugs were not acting to maximize their economic interests? Malaria seems like a relatively well understood parasite, whereas "back pain" could really be a symptom of nobody-really-knows-what.
    • 9y ago
• nas 9y ago
  Here's some free advice. When your back bothers you, try some jogging. If you can't jog, walk. Taking it "easy" by laying around is not the cure. I'm pretty sure the vast number of back problems are caused by too much sitting and lying down.
  • andreyf 9y ago
    That advice could leave people paralyzed. Slight modification: when it hurts, give it rest. When it gets better, don't forget to keep healing it.
  • forgotmyhnacc 9y ago
    Your experiences don't necessarily generalize to the population. Lots of people have back problems despite regular exercise.
  • booleandilemma 9y ago
    I've found that my lower back aches after I've walked very long distances, actually. Long being 4-5 miles.
  • tootie 9y ago
    Jogging or long walks is the one thing that causes back pain for me.
    • tarr11 9y ago
      Consider your shoes, more supportive shoes may help on long walks. I over pronate, and when my sneakers are at all worn down, I start to have back pain. Also, jogging or running would often make things much worse for me.
      • tootie 9y ago
        I overpronate badly and do carefully choose my shoes to support that. But, if I just avoid being on my feet for too long at a stretch I never get back pain.
  • 9y ago
• transreal 9y ago
  Anyone suffering from back pain who really wants to recover should read Dr. John Sarno's work. Here's a link to his book: https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Mind-Body-Connection/dp/0446557684 https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Back-Pain-Mind-Body-Connectio... I was skeptical at first, but just reading his book and thinking through what he presented healed my lower back pain.
  • _delirium 9y ago
    Wait, the process of thinking through the book's contents itself healed the pain?
    • sillysaurus3 9y ago
      This Amazon review is too perfect: After months of intense low back pain, I was recommended this book. I read it and thought it made sense. I know our mind is powerful and stress can cause dis-ease. I completely jumped into his program spite the intense pain I endured. After 6 weeks I did not experience any shift in my pain. And, the pain intensified to the point that sometimes I couldn't even stand. I decided to seek medical help. What I found out was that my L5-S1 disc was collapsed and the (almost) bone on bone rubbing was why I was experiencing so much pain. I wonder why it's at 4.5 stars.
      • tudorw 9y ago
        Most pain treatment in the hands of professionals would seek to establish there is no mechanical aspect to the pain, go and see a doctor first, then read books.
      • tcbawo 9y ago
        I think that the premise is that it is possible for some people to reduce pain symptoms by reducing inflammation caused by stress. I can't imagine this advice would solve everyone's pain issues, but it might help people who would otherwise become dependent on pain medication or endure unnecessary surgery.
      • arkitaip 9y ago
• femto 9y ago
  I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of a morning routine of 15 minutes of exercise at home, targeting the pelvic muscles. The only equipment required is a floor mat, if the floor is hard. I started gently and naturally progressed to a higher level, taking the attitude that there is no hurry, because I'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life, so there is plenty of time to progress. My initial routine was just lying on my back trying to tighten my pelvic muscles without hurting. Three years later I'm up to front/back/left/right planks interleaved with stretching. I don't mean to be smug, as back pain really is an individual thing. There's an element of searching for what works, and I was lucky in that I was pointed directly towards an effective treatment. This result was science based, in that I was treated by a general practitioner who specialised in back pain and insisted on an evidence based approach. (This doctor also wrote the manual for NSW's worker's compensation scheme and lectures at a major university on the topic.) Edit: My doctor's rule was "pain free exercise". Go as far as you can, but stop if hurts. A test of whether you've really overdone it is whether the new pain goes away overnight. He also reckoned that it would be difficult to do a further injury whilst doing exercises, as the pain would make me self limiting. Further edit: My initial physio, and a cortisone injection, at the time of injury, weren't aimed at a long term fix, but at providing enough temporary pain relief to begin exercising.
  • bigiain 9y ago
    I'll vouch for the effectiveness of losing 30+kg (65+lb). Which only reduces the back pain problem for overweight people to a known-intractable weight loss problem... :-/
    • femto 9y ago
      Agree that weight/load is an issue. In my experience, a measurable side effect of a daily routine is some weight loss, which if nothing else provides motivation for continuing.
    • taneq 9y ago
      Weight loss isn't "known intractable". Physically it's very simple, if an overweight person is physically prevented from eating too much, they'll lose weight, just like physically it's very simple to quit addictive drugs. And the drug analogy is a good one, because just like quitting drugs, you can't quit overeating (barring the aforementioned option of someone physically preventing you from doing so - which is literally what gastric sleeve surgery and the like are doing) until you actually choose to. When you wake up in the morning, look at yourself in the mirror, and instead of "oh I'm so fat" or "it's not fair" or "I wish I could lose weight", you think "I choose to lose weight by controlling what I eat", then you lose weight. And it stays off for as long as your choice holds.
• lr4444lr 9y ago
  Anyone who has endured back pain knows it is an erratic dictator. It takes hold of your psyche, demanding your attention and devotion before all else—before you can plan a hike, return to a work routine, pick up your child for a hug. So when someone offers to make that dictator disappear, it’s hard to resist—no matter what the price. Although there are many people who do manual labor for whom the inability to move properly threatens livelihood, which is a very serious situation, lower back pain does not rank with late stage cancer, COPD, crippling mental illness, or any of the other health impairments that let the sufferer see the grim reaper unsheathing his scythe or turn every waking second of life into a mythological torture. Back pain can be tough, but can be adapted to. You move more slowly, carefully, and adjust yourself when you plan to rest or sit for a while. This rush for invasive treatment is embarrassing to see in my fellow Americans when we've had a reputation for toughness and independence. - Speaking as someone who's had acute episodes of lower back pain so bad that I've involuntarily collapsed, and could not walk freely for days at a time.
  • deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  • DanBC 9y ago
    You can see how an acute episode is different to chronic pain right? You can understand that a pain that comes, lasts a few days, and then goes is different to pain that you live with every single day of your life?
• sundvor 9y ago
  I'm a programmer, always at the desk. Back problems came on in my mid/late thirties, as I let my physique go. Once I started squatting in early 40s, back pain has largely subsided. Only reoccurred when I got too optimistic regarding my training, after a break. Have now fixed that by learning to train in moderation / be more consistent - as I get older, there really is no excuse good enough for not going. So yes: Learning to squat (deep / a2g) as well as perform deadlifts, done properly and with respect is the best thing I ever did for my health (now in my mid 40s). I must emphasize _properly_ - learning technique from good PTs, youtube videos, books like Starting Strength, is highly recommended. A side benefit is all the mental health positives the training gives, as well as making you more competitive in the somewhat / sometimes age biased work force.
  • DrScump 9y ago
    To clarify the term: "a2g" = "ass to grass", or full extension at the bottom of the movement such that calves and hamstrings meet.
    • sundvor 9y ago
      Thanks, that's a great way of describing it.
  • icelancer 9y ago
    Squatting, deadlifting, and don't forget Rippetoe's favorite accessory exercise - back extensions, or reverse hypers if you can find the setup - do wonders. Pairing weightlifting with McKenzie Method work is great if you suffer from lumbar flexion back pain; the most common out there. Also, weightlifting works best for that type of pain as well due to it getting rid of anterior pelvic tilt over time and reinforcing a neutral spine, to say nothing of the increased muscle gain and postural support you get from pushing iron.
  • peteretep 9y ago
    Been squatting for years, and finally got around to dropping the weight 50% and attempting to work back with perfect form. A bunch of flexibility and pain issues have disappeared as if by magic
• deleted 9y ago
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• thesunny 9y ago
  I haven't posted in a while but had to jump in on this. I had very bad back pain before my first daughter was born. I wanted to be able to carry my daughter when she was born so I decided to try everything, whether I believed it would work or not. I had massages, shots injected directly in the back, manipulation, and basically lots of different doctors and specialists. Nothing worked. Since I said I'd try everything, I made an appointment for accupuncture as a kind of last resort. I had zero faith that this would work but carrying on with the theme that I'd try everything, I tried it. The session was extremely painful. Note that subsequent sessions afterwards have not been. I think this was a function of my muscles being locked in spasm during that first session or something. Anways, immediately after the session, there was a marked improvement. It was the only thing that worked. It only took a few more times before it was back to normal. If you haven't tried it, even if you don't believe, please give it a try. I think one clarification to make is that acupuncture directly into the problem points to release a spasm muscle is more mainstream. Acupuncture where you poke your foot to fix your liver is perhaps more controversial. I'm sure I'm trivializing or getting some of this wrong but just wanted to share my experience with solving my back pain. I hope it will help others.
  • 0xbear 9y ago
    Your muscles are locked in spasm because they’re insufficient to carry the load. The long term solution to that is not acupuncture, it’s building up those muscles through exercise, and in particular through training with free weights.
    • tome 9y ago
      Well yeah, but it's no good lifting weights with muscles that are locked in spasm.
      • mathw 9y ago
        Indeed. My physiotherapist's approach is to engage in a variety of horribly painful activities to get those muscles to unlock, and then teach you how to do the exercises that will help you stop it happening again.
• ScottBurson 9y ago
  Ramin can debunk chiropractic all she wants; adjustments have worked too well for me too many times over the years for me to abandon them. (The supplements some chiropractors sell have never done anything for me, though.) It's clear that some amount of realignment of the spine happens naturally; I feel a small pop here or there almost daily. The spine is a complex structure with many forces acting on it. Getting it adjusted as needed doesn't strike me as any more "woo woo" than getting my car's wheels aligned. ETA this amusing tidbit: the worst back injury I ever had was from playing pinball.
• royinferno 9y ago
  Yeah I remember doc telling me spinal fusion being an option. Refused because of the long term ailments it may give me. I have a herniated disc L5-S1. It's been 6 years since then. Did physical therapy and exercise. Last 2 years been lazy but I know having a strong core is key along with cardio and strength exercise. However I been saving to have a stem cell procedure done where they extract it from my bone marrow and inject it into the problem disk. I think cost is $7K and it's not covered by insurance. But it's better than the surgical alternatives at have now.
• memracom 9y ago
  I've kept back pain at bay with a simple 3-point plan. Sleep on an uncomfortable bed with a firm surface and a thin futon for padding. Sit on uncomfortable chairs, mostly the wooden kitchen chair type. Lift free weights, i.e. barbells or kettle bells. No levers and pulley systems. The weight has to be free to fall and hurt you. Just never overdo it so that it never does fall like that. Works for me, probably because it keeps all the little muscles between the ribs working smoothly. Humans are not built for comfort but paradoxically, avoiding modern comforts will have you sleeping like a baby, avoiding back pain, and give you reserves to climb a mountain when you feel like it.
  • fizixer 9y ago
    That makes two of us (my comment is along the same lines).
  • buzzybee 9y ago
    I've been on the "sleep on exercise mat with some blankets" train for years, but a few months back, stepped it up by eliminating pillows. I still gravitate towards getting something under my head, but it turns out that I only need another small blanket or cloth. I wake at more consistent hours and no longer experience numbness in my arms when waking. I believe there are many more "details" I can improve too. I got into training fast and slow breathing patterns for different activities, which seems to help both the training and the recovery. A plainer diet seems to help a lot of things, although it's hard to reconcile this against the constant imposition of the world to eat pizza and drink beer.
• briantakita 9y ago
  > Ramin reports that they are impossible to point at on an x-ray, because they don’t exist; a dislocated joint in your spine would be the result of a horrendous injury that sends you to the hospital, she explains, not to a massage table. The Chiropractor I visit utilizes x-rays & a thermographic scanner to identify the subluxations. From consistently seeing my x-rays, it's obvious where my subluxations lie. The thermographic scanner analysis also corresponds with what I feel & what my x-rays show. The targeted adjustments increase my range of motions, blood flow, & "good feeling" in the areas of the subluxation; in a progressive way. The spine (especially the neck) is a complex biomechanical system, so it takes iterations to enhance. I've also tried yoga (ashtanga) & exercise in the past, but my back was still messed up. While it's healthy to be skeptical, it's also healthy to be skeptical of the skeptics. During the turn of the 20th century, the robber barons (i.e. Rockefellers) financed a campaign to promote the nascent allopathic medicine & to discredit the traditional naturalpathic medicine. They financed universities, including politically maneuvering in allopathic faculty & ostricizing naturalpathic faculty. They also utilized the new science of propaganda (later renamed to public relations) to convince the population of their worldview. Allopathic medicine tends to be more profitable large companies (monopolies) for a few reasons: * it has an innate subscription model (i.e. medication) * it can utilize patents & professional associations to control markets * by attending to the symptoms & not the root causes, it can create long-term or even lifetime customers who become dependent * side effects can be masked & non-obvious via bioaccumulation * masking side effects creates new symptoms to create demand for new medicine * having a monopoly in practitioners & capital allows companies/markets to control the funding & dissemination of research results * since it relates to health care, populations demand government subsidies funded by taxpayers & other government funds (i.e. ObamaCare) * since it's health care, laws can be passed to "ensure the public good". These laws are often written by the lobbyists to restrict competition. For example, in many states, it's a criminal offense to be a Naturalpathic Doctor. * there's been a recent epidemic (~60 from 2015-2016) of Naturalpathic & well known critics of the allopathic medicine industry/science with mysterious deaths I'm sure there are many other strategems that I'm missing; but this shows how allopathic medicine is quite a lucrative business with heavily dependent customers. It's also politically incorrect to call out the state of affairs as it's an involved & emotional topic with massively capitalized special interests who want to keep their golden goose.
• gre 9y ago
  Deadlifts helped me for lower back pain from sitting in office chairs.
• dirkg 9y ago
  In my experience in the US you are much more likely to be 'sold' on unneeded medication and services vs getting an accurate meaningful diagnosis and course of treatment, when it comes to a whole host of problems but esp w.r.t physical injuries, rehab etc. 90% of the doctors you see will have no clue about treatments you can find in a 5min search on youtube. I don't mean hack treatments or miracle cures but basic physiotherapy, prevention etc. Overprescription and unnecessary procedures are the norm. Patients are milked for money rather than being treated. The fear of litigation and desire to make a profit are the primary factors, not patient health. I've suffered multiple sports related injuries. Consulted a number of doctors, out of pocket and covered by insurance. The physiotherapy they recommend is almost always the most basic and didn't do much. Doctors refuse to discuss other options or refer you outside their 'network'. The whole system positively reeks.
  • gehwartzen 9y ago
    Not to mention that pain itself serves the very important function of telling you that something is wrong or to stop doing something becomes it is causing harm. Prescribing pain meds is a quick way to silence the alarm but allows whatever behavior or condition that coused it to continue.
    • Cthulhu_ 9y ago
      The challenge there is that there's no easy fix; medication is an easy / quick relief, but anything else takes focused effort for a number of days if not weeks/months/years without direct result. Same reason why the chiropractor as mentioned in the article is popular - instant results.
• seanwilson 9y ago
  I thought this community would be more scientific...instead of anecdotes I'd rather see links to rigorous studies e.g. showing acupuncture or chiropractors work especially since these two forms of intervention have been subjected to decades of research already, have no plausible scientific basis and claim to treat many more things besides back pain. They should be held to the same standards as other medicine.
  • erentz 9y ago
    It's disturbing. I suspect most of this community would be anti-anti-vax (pro-vax?). And if one were to suggest on this forum that "I vaccinated my child and they got autism, therefore vaccines cause autism", they would be met with the appropriate skepticism. But in this thread people are professing "I had acupuncture and got better, therefore acupuncture works" and somehow that's considered defensible.
    • CodeWriter23 9y ago
      "Anecdotal" is not the correct term. "Testimonial" is. People are relaying the truth they observed, which is testimony. Anecdote means more along the lines of hearsay, or repeating something from a third party as if it were testimonial.
      • seanwilson 9y ago
        Anecdotal sounds accurate to me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence > Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes, i.e., evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony. When compared to other types of evidence, anecdotal evidence is generally regarded as limited in value due to a number of potential weaknesses, but may be considered within the scope of scientific method as some anecdotal evidence can be both empirical and verifiable, e.g. in the use of case studies in medicine. Other anecdotal evidence, however, does not qualify as scientific evidence, because its nature prevents it from being investigated by the scientific method. > Where only one or a few anecdotes are presented, there is a larger chance that they may be unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases.[1][2] Similarly, psychologists have found that due to cognitive bias people are more likely to remember notable or unusual examples rather than typical examples.[3] Thus, even when accurate, anecdotal evidence is not necessarily representative of a typical experience. Accurate determination of whether an anecdote is "typical" requires statistical evidence.[4] Misuse of anecdotal evidence is an informal fallacy and is sometimes referred to as the "person who" fallacy ("I know a person who..."; "I know of a case where..." etc.) which places undue weight on experiences of close peers which may not be typical. Compare with hasty generalization.
• erentz 9y ago
  http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-doesnt-work/ http://sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-doesnt-work/
  • siquick 9y ago
    >>Acupuncture should, ideally, be tested separately for effectiveness for each individual condition for which it has been proposed (like so many other forms of alternative medicine, that is a very large number). Good quality trials have not been done for all of them, but results suggest strongly that it is unlikely that acupuncture works for rheumatoid arthritis, stopping smoking, irritable bowel syndrome, or for losing weight. There is also no good reason to think it works for addictions, asthma, chronic pain, depression, insomnia, neck pain, shoulder pain or frozen shoulder, osteoarthritis of the knee, sciatica, stroke or tinnitus, and many other conditions.18<< The key part of that paragraph being "Good quality trials have not been done for all of them". It's a shame that Western science seems so intent on dismissing non-western treatments and techniques, rather than committing to running the same detailed trials that they do on profitable drugs.
    • pavel_lishin 9y ago
      First, you're taking a god-of-the-gaps approach to acupuncture. "It hasn't been proven to be ineffective for condition X, so keep your mind open!" Second, they have run good trials on many of the conditions acupuncture claims to cure. You picked the one paragraph that might be interpreted to support your claim: > It's a shame that Western science seems so intent on dismissing non-western treatments and techniques, rather than committing to running the same detailed trials that they do on profitable drugs. So here's a few quotes that contradict you, all from the same article: > after decades of research and more than 3000 trials, acupuncture researchers have failed to reject the null hypothesis, and any remaining possible specific effect from acupuncture is so tiny as to be clinically insignificant. > Large multicenter clinical trials conducted in Germany7–10 and the United States11 consistently revealed that verum (or true) acupuncture and sham acupuncture treatments are no different in decreasing pain levels across multiple chronic pain disorders: migraine, tension headache, low back pain, and osteoarthritis of the knee. > Vickers et al.14 did a meta-analysis for 29 randomized controlled trials, with 17,922 patients. The patients were being treated for a variety of chronic pain conditions. The results were very similar to those of Madsen et al.12Real acupuncture was better than sham but by a tiny amount that lacked any clinical significance. There's no reason to not try acupuncture, if you've got the money for it, I guess. It's not likely to hurt you. But don't disregard other treatments. And bitch all you want about "western medicine", but if you have a heart attack, or need a kidney transplant, or break a bone - you're probably going to choose the western system.
• mcbobbington 9y ago
  I think a medical license is a total joke. Now instead of quacks peddling snake oil, we get extremely expensive quacks with diplomas peddling snake oil. My wife has back pain and we paid for a $1000 injection the doctor recommended that did nothing.
  • CodeWriter23 9y ago
    Quacks who repeat whatever their drug rep tells them. Can't be bothered to actually read the studies to see if they are rigorous or sham, that is, if they can actually tell the difference.
  • a_imho 9y ago
    Total joke is an exaggeration, but they are indeed guilty of pushing medications and expensive medical procedures as symptomatic treatment. Still, he most frustrating aspect imo is they act as gatekeepers of (effective) drugs and sick leaves.
  • scient 9y ago
    And I think people who make these kinds of ridiculous blanket statements are a joke.
    • mcbobbington 9y ago
      The government doesn't have any business telling anyone they can't smoke weed, and they don't have any business telling skmeone they can't get medical advice from someone they trust. The licensure is a government run monopoly, which always leads to higher prices and lower quality care. The fact is good doctors will be good doctors regardless of licensure because they will put in the effort to learn what's needed to treat the patient. Bad doctors will be bad doctors, becaude their motive is money, and they won't care about patients welfare either way. In some ways a license gives a false sense of security.
• deleted 9y ago
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• fizixer 9y ago
  Advice on back pain based on personal evidence (single data point). - Did squats and deadlifts for the first time at age 33. Did them for 1 year. At age 36, again did them for 3 months. (I'll get back into it again once I'm done with my current hectic schedule. Planning on doing at least 3-6 months every year). - Here's how I sleep: No mattress. I create layers out of (bottom to top): - Solid floor, - Carpet or rug, - Gym mat, - Thick korean type blanket (mink blanket?), folded twice or thrice, - a comforter folded twice, - Regular bed sheet This makes a layer soft enough so I can sleep, but still stiff enough that I can feel the floor. In addition, I take two large towels, each twisted into a thick rope, then rolled into something resembling a cinnamon roll. One supports my back, one my tummy/abs area. When I lie upright, they're on my left and right. When I lie on the side, one is next to my back and one in the front next to my abs. Every time I twist or turn while sleeping, I've developed a habit of pulling both in to keep them packed tight next to my body. I'm 39 now. Have been sitting in front of a computer all day for the last 20 years. Never experienced back pain. Disclaimer: try this at your own risk.
  • hpcjoe 9y ago
    One important point about this. I've been lifting for 41 years now. Mostly on, with some off (end of grad school until my daughter was born, and some other intervals). Be careful with on/off/on type modes. Squats and deadlifts will stretch large muscle groups. You can tear these more easily as you get older. I know. I am recovering from hernia surgery 8 weeks ago. I was doing my normal leg press and squat portion of my routine. I didn't feel anything tear. Though I was pushing about 600lbs on the leg press. 2 days later I am in the ER with severe pain. Granted, I am not a spring chicken, but I've found that after I crossed 35, my injuries took longer to heal. And if I took time off from my routines, I had to start building back up. I started that building back up (only 9 weeks off so far, but still, I don't want it to be longer) yesterday and today. Just saying, be careful. I think of myself as a kid. My body thinks other things.
  • tbrake 9y ago
    I sleep on an 'ultra firm' mattress but every now and then I get the urge to spend a night on a hard surface setup similar (though a little thinner with the padding) to yours. No idea if it's good, bad or neutral for my back health overall. Doesn't seem to be hurting and I've no history or experience of back pain, but like you say, single data point here too.
• minipci1321 9y ago
  Some personal evidence: I obtained relief by installing a traction bar high enough my feet don't touch the ground, and remaining suspended for some time, a few times a day every day. It took me a couple of years to develop forearm muscles strong enough to withstand more than 30 sec, and to learn to fully relax the back so it stretches freely. Particularly effective when coupled with a warming up (at the beginning, from simply walking a few miles, couldn't do much else). Can now even do that when crises arise (even when cannot easily walk). Works also in the morning on cold muscles, but some small tendinitis In elbows can follow. In this part of the world, insurance-covered doctors are very sceptical when you turn in with the back pain, and physio offer very basic things, no real relief. I did take a scanner and other tests, to evaluate the situation. Disclaimer: this is not a medical advice, I am not a doctor, "back pain" is a very broad definition.
• briantakita 9y ago
  Oh, but the subscriptions continue. They "cure a disease" with vaccines my friend...In fact they increase as vaccines are compulsively imposed on almost everybody...Note that the vaccine manufactures are immune from liability, so a vaccine is a perfect injection point for bioaccumulative toxins which create more future customers. > Indeed, and it is surely for the same reason that there isn't yet a pill I can take to make me 7'5" tall. That's a non-sequitur. There's natural law.
  • deleted 9y ago
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  • tvgggghh 9y ago
    (I can't delete my own comment, apparently)
    • deleted 9y ago
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  • d3ad1ysp0rk 9y ago
    If you can provide any proof that vaccines cause long term diseases in any significant rate, I would appreciate it.
    • briantakita 9y ago
      The question is what constitutes as "proof"? It's certainly isn't going to be a mathematical proof. Is "proof" limited to being sanctioned by a homogeneous scientific community who receives their funding from the same institutions that they are analyzing? Is there "proof" that vaccines are essential to public health? Would sanitation not have a contributing factor to reduction of disease? Can you rule out biological warfare as a catalyst for various epidemics? Perhaps "proof" can mean implication in an investigative sense through collating evidence & connecting the dots. In this sense, would a conviction in a non-biased criminal or civil court be "proof"? Here's some evidence; note that the most of the corporate media is sponsored by pharma/medical advertisement, creating a conflict of interest in reporting. Approach this like an investigator, do the research, & listen to the various interested parties: * The National Childhood Vaccine Act limits the liability of vaccine manufactures from claims. There is a separate fund which pays off families whose children were injured by a vaccine. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/National_Childhood_Vaccine_Injury_Act https://www.wikiwand.com/en/National_Childhood_Vaccine_Injur... https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html * Several CDC & industry whistle-blowers reported rigged scientific studies re: MMR & other vaccine effects. Why would these people ruin their nice jobs & face public scrutiny to blow the whistle if there were not a moral reason to do so? http://www.naturalnews.com/046535_MMR_vaccines_autism_CDC_whistleblower.html http://www.naturalnews.com/046535_MMR_vaccines_autism_CDC_wh... * Studies indicating that Unvaccinated Children are Healthier than Vaccinated Children https://healthimpactnews.com/2016/study-unvaccinated-children-healthier-than-vaccinated-kids-doctors-agree/ https://healthimpactnews.com/2016/study-unvaccinated-childre... * President Trump commissioned a panel headed by Robert Kennedy & supported by Robert De Niro (a vocal critic of Trump whose child has been injured by vaccines). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEkbXGAfMyY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEkbXGAfMyY * Propaganda/Public Relations campaigns directed at any skeptic of vaccines. You know the dreaded "anti-vaxxers". If there were no culpability, why would there be such heavy Progadanga demonizing people from exercising their free speech? Bill Nye wants anti-vaxxers to be killed. Penn & Teller seemed zealously angry in their video against the evil "anti-vaxxers". Why such a harsh response? Is this not similar to the Catholic Inquisitions where the religious hegemony was challenged by esoteric & scientific belief? The establishment Scientific homism of GMOs, Vaccines, Climate Change, compulsory fluoridation has been unable to silence it's critics through studies & rhetoric. Instead, the arguments & evidence against these organizations is only growing in volume. * Anecdotal evidence/videos of many people who have suffered injuries from vaccines. This is not limited to autism. I personally know a few people who have been injured (mainly from the East Coast). Before you write them off, these people seem quite convinced over the causes of their injuries. There is little motivation to be reporting such causes. It's important to elevate direct reports, as there is a heavy vested interest in spinning stories (similar to blaming the rape victim). http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/march-2015-settlements-in-vaccine-court-117-vaccine-injuries-and-deaths/ http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/march-2015-settlements-in-v... http://vaxxedthemovie.com/ http://vaxxedthemovie.com/ * Measles outbreaks where those infected had the measles vaccine. I thought the value proposition of vaccines was inoculation for life? https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm * Mercury & other compounds found in the vaccines. Independent labs have analyzed harmful bioaccumulative compounds in vaccines. https://www.ecowatch.com/glyphosate-vaccines-1999343362.html https://www.ecowatch.com/glyphosate-vaccines-1999343362.html
• hiisukun 9y ago
  At one time someone close to me was experiencing back pain, we both saw a lovely episode of the TV series 'Louie'. Here is a quote from that episode: Dr. Bigelow: What can I do for you? Louie: Uh, well, I hurt my back today really bad. Uh. Can you help me with my back? I mean... Dr. Bigelow: What's wrong with your back? Louie: It hurts. Dr. Bigelow: My professional diagnosis is your back hurts. Louie: Well, what can I do about it? Dr. Bigelow: Nothing. Louie: Nothing? Dr. Bigelow: The problem is you're using it wrong. The back isn't done evolving yet. You see, the spine is a row of vertebrae. It was designed to be horizontal. Then people came along and used it vertical. Wasn't meant for that. So the disks get all floppy, swollen. Pop out left, pop out right. It'll take another. I'd say 20,000 years to get straightened out. Till then, it's going to keep hurting. Louie: So that's it? Dr. Bigelow: It's an engineering design problem. It's a misallocation. We were given a clothesline and we're using it as a flagpole.
  • justboxing 9y ago
    Digging the joke, but is there any scientific truth to this statement? > It was designed to be horizontal. Then people came along and used it vertical. Wasn't meant for that.
    • rmcpherson 9y ago
      Yes, humans evolved from an animal whose back was horizontal, parallel with the ground. Our spines are not an optimal solution.
    • dsr_ 9y ago
      It's more accurate to say that the vast majority of tetrapods evolved their spines to support use parallel to the ground, and that even those which occasionally walk around bipedally spend lots of time either brachiating (in trees) or quadrupedally. There were no designs involved. Humans are the largest bipedal walkers, but not the only ones. Here's an interesting survey: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1571302/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1571302/
• iamgopal 9y ago
  I sleep on the hard floor. Never had a back pain. On the time where I need to sleep on soft places, sofa or mat etc, it gets painful afterwards.
• alexbecker 9y ago
  My brother had lumbar fusion surgery after he hurt his back on the job. My parents tried to talk him out of it, but the workman's comp lawyer and the doctors convinced him anyway. Three years later, he spent almost all the workman's comp money and his back is worse than before.
• mingabunga 9y ago
  Anecdotally, I do a lot of exercise and for a year I'd always wake up with a sore back (top of hips, either side of spine), or after sitting down. Physio eventually told me my hip flexors were really tight and that was the cause of the referred pain. 4 days of long stretches on those a couple of times a day and I'm good as! Crazy I went for a year with it irritating. If it helps someone, glad it did. Something like this (first result on google) http://www.stack.com/a/4-hip-flexor-stretches-to-relieve-tight-hips http://www.stack.com/a/4-hip-flexor-stretches-to-relieve-tig...
• Aron 9y ago
  I'm on a 3 month back pain streak which is unprecedented for me. It's co-occuring with higher than usual weight range for me, as well as I had started making a concerted effort to stand straighter and adjust head-forward posture and I think that might also have triggered something. I can't tell for the life of me if it's arthritis or some kind of over-tensioned muscle. But in regard to the article, I have no hope in the medical industry to help. Damn sad really.
• deepGem 9y ago
  I can personally vouch for push-ups as a cure for back pain. When done in proper form, push-ups are one of the best exercises even for the spine and back. The risk of injury is fairly less. I usually do 3 sets of 6 to 8 push-ups every morning. The plank is also a good exercise. I can't hold the plank position for more than 30 seconds though.
• loverofcode 9y ago
  i would like to share my experience. I have rheumatoid arthritis and have had it since age 13. I have been taking hydrocodone since i was 14, started taking oxycontin and hydrocodone for breakthrough 10 years ago at 25. I have been able to function as a normal person. I went through a few years of going off of them when i would gain mass amounts of weight and unable to do anything. I have only had my dosage adjusted twice, i am able to walk 6 miles a day plus go up and down 3 flights of stairs x16 times a day. Opiates have saved my life.
• Spooky23 9y ago
  Back pain does attract a lot of quackery. It's hard to understand where people come from with back pain unless you experience it. It's debilitating and utterly dominates your life. But the article took many liberties to make it sound worse. Spinal fusions in the lower spine are mostly done laproscopically these days, and usually don't involve abdominal surgery. That's a huge difference -- I had a 6 week recovery vs over 4 months for an abdominal procedure. My L4-L5 was fused at age 25 due to a degenerated disc that failed completely. Fortunately it was very successful for me. Hopefully we make progress with artificial discs and vertebrae to improve outcomes for others.
• deleted 9y ago
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• princeb 9y ago
  I injured my lower back on squats. it just takes one moment of being tired, losing concentration, forgetting the form, failing to maintain stiffness and strength in the core, forcing a rep out of a bad position, not getting enough rest and nutrition on a high intensity program, and that's it. I never had an issue before but now I do. massages, physio, painkillers don't work. I can still walk and work and do everyday stuff, but I will not be participating in powerlifting meets for a long time.
• Splatter 9y ago
  One word: Deadlift. The benefits of the deadlift cannot be over-stated. All adults, especially the elderly, should deadlift on a regular basis. As a compound movement it strengthens so many muscles, results in excellent strength gains, and contributes to quality of life improvements.
• riot504 9y ago
  Powerlift - Bench, Squat and Deadlift. All work your back in different aspects. Plus you will gain all around solid strength.
• slr555 9y ago
  The thing is, when you've seen one back problem, you've see one back problem. The spine is a maddeningly complex assembly of bone, nerves, cartilage, articular surfaces, vasculature, packed tightly, subjected to immense forces, and articulable is many directions. It is a miracle of evolutionary engineering and a miserable failure. We needed to crawl longer before we stood up and walked as a species. I have been through 2 spinal fusion surgeries. First, L4-L5, L5-S1. Then L2-L3, L3-L4. One surgery was nine hours the other was eight. Recovery was approximately 1 year for each surgery to complete return to maximum function. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. And news of the need for a second surgery almost crushed me. But... I am virtually pain free for 3 years now. My activities are virtually unlimited. No boxing. No golf. Oh boo hoo. I can hike, scuba dive and travel. Your mileage may vary, but the real question is why? The quality of both surgeons and diagnosticians varies widely across institutions and geography. I am fortunate that I live in a city with the best orthopedic hospital in the US and my surgeon is world renowned in the area of spinal surgery. It took me ten plus years to get the right diagnosis and find the right clinicians but when I did they repaired my spine to provide me maximum function and pain relief but it is not a new spine. It is never like new. But it'll do what I need it to do. For anyone in pain. I hope and pray you are relieved of it. Search for the professionals who really know what the fuck their doing and GET WELL!!! Be a zealous and merciless advocate for your own healthcare.
  • deelowe 9y ago
    I'd love some help. How did you find someone who could actually give you some sort of prognosis/diagnoses? Mine just say either "more PT" or "here's some pills." Neither work. My disc is budged and it seems like moving the wrong way will trigger 2-3 days of intense pain and immobility. No one seems to offer any suggestions on how to fix it. Is it fixable? I don't know... P.S. the back pain industry is a sham, but there are a few of us out there that legitimately need help, but can't get it due to the opioid epidemic and snake oil salesmen.
    • specialist 9y ago
      My number one advice is to not accept "No". Someone out there has an answer for you. Keep asking, educating yourself, searching. Dr. Srinivasan in Seattle did my spinal fusion. She's the best. http://seattleneuro.com/about_dr-srinivasan/ http://seattleneuro.com/about_dr-srinivasan/ If you are trying to find a neurosurgeon near you... Ask Srinivasan for a referral. Or find other doctors that learned, practiced, taught where she did (birds of a feather).
• j_s 9y ago
  This "back exercise for posture" video was the first one I ever favorited on Youtube. It's helpful for anyone like me who is doing zero today. Kind of a "YTWL" reaching your elbows behind your back. (I did them standing facing a wall, less crushing.) https://youtu.be/bCMNMHBY1Dk?t=46s https://youtu.be/bCMNMHBY1Dk?t=46s I wanted to share this as a first-step, almost as easy as nothing type of thing that could help someone considering a more serious commitment to "real" exercise.
• chad_strategic 9y ago
  My recommendations for fixing back pain or a slip disc. 1. If you are a man, get a smaller wallet, don't be sitting on a thick wallet. 2. If you are in a crappy job that annoys you, then quit or get fired. Some back pain is psychosomatic. 3. Lose about 20 pounds. (I was in great weight lifting shape, but had kinda of looked like a line backer.) 4. Yoga 5. Running 6. Standing desk 4 and 5 are free. The medical industrial complex can't make money by telling you to go to yoga or run. They would rather preform surgery or give a patient drugs. Unfortunately, people take the easy route. I have been free of back pain for nearly 14 years. Sure some of it comes back here and there but it goes away with stretches, exercise and proper sitting / standing awareness.
  • shakermakr 9y ago
    Running is terrible for the lower back. Every time you stride you send shock waves up your legs that decompress in the lower spine. I switched to elliptical training. As you don't lift your feet, impact free. Swimming is also fantastic for the back of course. Evidence: had a microdiscetomy 4 years ago, lots of rehab, and now pain free. Every doctor said don't run!
    • nradov 9y ago
      Humans evolved to run. Running is good for your lower back, provided you run with proper form and aren't already injured.
      • pbhjpbhj 9y ago
        What's proper form? Front foot or heel strike?
    • chad_strategic 9y ago
      I probably should have stated that at least with running your mileage my vary. (pun intended) The elliptical machine gives me shin splints and I don't get a really good cardio work out. You are right swimming works wonders as well. Never had any doctor told me not to run, but they all told me to have surgery? My personal experience is that with some proper exercise and corrective action, the majority of people can beat the need to have significant back surgery. I just want people to know there can be alternatives out there.
• sangd 9y ago
  I had back pain for 3-4 years and I did many form of exercises including back/neck stretching, yoga, running, walking, jogging, changing work posture, changing table, trying to not sit long. And nothing had ever worked for long. Sometimes I had to take advil or tylernol to ease up the pain. I've heard and researched about the issue and it seemed like a scam to get a really effective cure everywhere. 6 months ago, I decided to take vitamin D3 + Glucosamin and the pain seems to get better, or a lot better. Then 3 months ago I decided to take Moringa powder daily (I usually don't take anything during weekend to let my body recover), and my back pain issue is now gone. I am not sure how long this would last but it's the best method I've found so far to cure my own back pain. I've tested many kinds of vitamins but I find natural vegetable powder are the best form to absorb and seems to produce positive results, at least from the products produced by my body.
• code_duck 9y ago
  "Humans usually don’t experience the same withdrawal because they take sustained-release formulations and taper off opioids gradually." In theoretical wonderland, yes, that's how it happens.
• charris0 9y ago
  Had back pain (lower back and neck) for years, mostly I think due to being tall and poor desk posture. I used to spend a lot of money at the chiropractor/osteopath, and while they do give relief I don't see them as a long term solution. That said, I think they can be valuable for acute episodes. What cured my back pain is Yoga. Not overnight, not over a week, but months of adding strength and flexibility to body as a whole. I'm now pain free. This may not work for all symptoms, but I think it's important to realise (in most cases it seems) you cannot expect the medical professional to heal you, only to help you temporarily. You must heal you.
  • 1ba9115454 9y ago
    I had some issues myself and after some reasearch found that exercise is the best pescription. I actually started weight training and cycleing and feel much better.
  • gldalmaso 9y ago
    Had a similar story. After having kids and carrying them around a lot, coupled with no exercise at all, I had an episode of intense lower back pain. After an xray, any structural problem was discarded, I needed exercise to keep my posture. I then decided that I need to carry on working on a desk for decades ahead (I'm on early 30s) so I had to tackle the problem. Was recommended by my daughter's pediatrician to look into Pilates classes. I'm now pain free and results came very early on in practice. Also, random pain spots that appeared frequently (for instance knee pain while driving) are mostly gone too.
  • mathw 9y ago
    I think there are a lot of people with back problems (definitely not all of them though) particularly desk workers (and not all of them either) who have a lot of their issues down more to a lack of core strength than anything else. Yoga, from what I have been told, is pretty awesome for core strength. It's something I'm working on in physiotherapy, because although I went to see her because I was having horrendous knee problems (now in full retreat thanks to some very simple, well-chosen exercises), she looks more holistically than that and identified some back issues as well. More exercises. The back ones are harder to do though, and don't seem to be as effective, but I'll be bringing that up at my next visit.
• eddd 9y ago
  Whenever I read such a piece, I recollect Noam Chomsky reflection that capitalism is a system where well informed consumers do rational decisions. But, our lives are so flooded with the informative garbage that people tend to do unrational decisions based on feelings and unknowingly. People are just not ready to digest that much, our educational system failed us miserably.
• teekert 9y ago
  Me 3, exercise is the only thing that helps. 1 Hour a week boxing, average of 40 min a day on the bike (to and from work). As soon as I start taking the bus instead of the bike, the back plays up. As soon I don't de boxing for > 3 weeks, I have to start avoiding carrying my 4 y/o no my neck. It's really very reproducible.
• emdowling 9y ago
  It is in our nature to want the quick, easy solution. That's what has allowed this and other health industries to thrive. I injured my lower back quite severely 5 years ago while lifting something at work the wrong way. Entirely my fault. Physio, chiropractors, etc did not fix it in the long term - a lot of money spent on temporary fixes. Swimming and gentle weight lifting over the course of 6 months made a huge, lasting difference. Occasionally, I still feel some tightness in that region but a run or yoga session fixes it up very quickly.
• mirimir 9y ago
  Many years ago, after going down hard while skiing, I learned the importance of exercise. Both for protecting against accidents, and in recovery from them. Because muscles can take stress off joints, and help prevent exceeding safe ranges of motion. That lesson has generalized very well. For other injuries, and for age-related arthritis. Basically, if I notice pain somewhere, it tells me that I'm not exercising that area properly.
• gcb0 9y ago
  what is it that cause so much back pain in the USA? anecdotal evidence, but after a few years there I had weekly visits to chiropractic just to function. one week out of the country, anywhere else, and I am good as new again. back to the usa, back to chiropractic. I already tried to change everything I can think of. even doing more exercise in the us caused a nerve pitch that was hell. why? why?
  • nradov 9y ago
    obesity and sedentary lifestyles
    • gcb0 9y ago
      I am still overweight when I leave the county :)
• uptownfunk 9y ago
  Not to sound hippy, but yoga-asana has really worked for me. I initially just started with 20 minutes a day and it's worked wonders. Just the starting sequence of the ashtanga series is enough to reap massive benefits. Obviously, check with your doctor and your health before starting this. Yes this is anecdotal experience, and yes it may not work for everyone, but it certainly helped me, so paying it forward with the hopes it will help someone else. Would begin with a few rounds of sun salutations, and the fundamental positions. And of course, get a teacher and/or proceed very slowly and very carefully, as with many exercises, you can injure yourself if you don't do it correctly. You can youtube any of the positions in the pdfs below and get quite detailed explanations on how to do them properly. https://www.ashtangayoga.info/fileadmin/01_Praxis/04_Download/CheatSheet/SuryaNamaskar-EN.pdf https://www.ashtangayoga.info/fileadmin/01_Praxis/04_Downloa... https://www.ashtangayoga.info/fileadmin/01_Praxis/04_Download/CheatSheet/FundamentalPositions-EN.pdf https://www.ashtangayoga.info/fileadmin/01_Praxis/04_Downloa...
• gadders 9y ago
  For people who don't yet have back pain, can I recommend deadlifts? Done properly, strengthening the muscles around you spine protects it.
• vibrant 9y ago
  There is a simple solution for back pain: - stop eating sugar and flour (and limit rice, potatoes, pasta) - this way you cut excessive weight quickly and become healthier overall - do basic back exercises at least twice per week - or even better do crossfit - stretch your legs and calfs often - tension from your legs translates to your lower back and causes spine issues With these 3 you're good forever :)
• member221 9y ago
  I have been diagnosed with COPD for over 12 years. My principal symptom has been a heavy feeling in the chest. I cannot breathe well while lying flat on my back or on my right side. I have recently had a very major reduction in these symptoms having been prescribed cefdinir for a diagnosis of an upper respiratory viral infection last 4 months. I am only writing this to inform others that nothing was really working to help my condition.I started on Emphysema herbal formula i ordered from Health Herbal Clinic,i read alot of reviews from other previous patients who used the herbal formula, my symptoms totally declined over a 5 weeks use of the COPD natural herbal formula. i am now doing very well, all my symptoms completely faded away, my lungs are totally repaired!! Visit there website www. healthherbalclinic. net or email Info@ healthherbalclinic. net
• Allower 9y ago
  Anyone with half a brain and a vague awareness of the modern world should have realized this years ago.
• visarga 9y ago
  For 10 years I had a chronic back pain. It was like burning behind my shoulder blades. I went to doctors, did exercises and massage. No effect. Then I happened to take a Calcium supplement. Pain went away in 30 minutes. Now I am pain-free. Why couldn't the doctors detect my lack of Calcium and recommend a basic supplement in so many years? I think there is a lot of bullshit in how they deal with this kind of issues. Another supplement that had a huge impact on me is Magnesium. It helps me sleep well, reduces anxiety and chronic fatigue. Also increases libido. It's as if it shaves a decade off my age. So maybe it was all because of the water I was drinking - too filtered, lacking normal minerals that are found in natural water.
  • Nav_Panel 9y ago
    > So maybe it was all because of the water I was drinking - too filtered, lacking normal minerals that are found in natural water. Water is an interesting piece of our diets and lives. One thing I've noticed is that people seem to love ice-cold, filtered water (even in NYC, where we have exceptionally good tap water, my roommate bought a water filter and keeps it in the refrigerator). I personally like the idea of cold water but I realized I can't stand drinking it -- I'd rather have cool/room temperature tap water 9 times out of 10 times. People always give me funny looks when I say that or ask for it, though. I'd totally believe that different mineral concentrations in water could lead us to different health outcomes. I also started taking a (highly bioavailable, to avoid diarrhea) magnesium supplement occasionally and the first time I tried it, I recall waking up the next morning feeling more relaxed than I'd felt in years. Maybe I'll try calcium, although I do consume a pretty solid quantity of dairy.
  • tim333 9y ago
    In fairness to your doctors that would be a hard one to diagnose.
    • Cthulhu_ 9y ago
      Wouldn't it show up in a blood test? I mean I wouldn't immediately suggest a blood test for back pain, but still.
• eosophos 9y ago
  One legged good mornings. Jefferson Curls. Ido Portal. Get good bodywork, thai massage/get a friend to grab handfulls of skin along your bones and pull and wiggle it. Make room for your tissues.
• blister 9y ago
  Anecdote of one: I was diagnosed with Stage 4 Hodgkins Lymphoma two years ago. My _only_ symptom at the time was pretty severe back pain, which is unusual for lymphoma. After treatment and remission a year later, I still had the severe back pain. The cancer pain management doctor I was seeing was perfectly happy to keep prescribing godlike levels of opiods. (50+ mg of oxycodone on top of 30+ mg of slow-release morphine pills). After a few months, I lamented that I was tired of taking pills and dealing with all the side effects. He offered to send me to Physical Therapy, but explained that most of his patients preferred to stay on the pills and that PT rarely worked. After 3 weeks of twice-weekly 30 minute PT sessions, my back felt amazing. No more pain and I was able to quickly wean off the drugs. At some point, my cancer had caused back pain, which I'd continued to worsen by avoiding exercise and sitting at weird angles to alleviate the pressure. As a humorous aside, I had to pay for several weeks of PT out of pocket because my insurance did not consider it important. They would prefer to shell out $500+ dollars every month to see a pain management doctor and continue taking pills.
  • Cthulhu_ 9y ago
    > As a humorous aside, I had to pay for several weeks of PT out of pocket because my insurance did not consider it important. They would prefer to shell out $500+ dollars every month to see a pain management doctor and continue taking pills. The insurance provider (or management / shareholders) probably get a kickback from the pharmaceutical industry.
    • _acme 9y ago
      Do you have any evidence that this ever happens?
  • pmarreck 9y ago
    That's because PT is evidence-based: http://www.apta.org/EvidenceResearch/ http://www.apta.org/EvidenceResearch/
  • gumby 9y ago
    > I had to pay for several weeks of PT out of pocket because my insurance did not consider it important. They would prefer to shell out $500+ dollars every month to see a pain management doctor and continue taking pills. Of course you could easily have sold those pills to pay for the PT :-)
• krupan 9y ago
  Foundation Training saved my back. I hate sounding like an infomercial for them, but seriously people, it works. Simple exercises you can learn from their book or YouTube videos.
  • bernhardwenzel 9y ago
    +1 I always had back problems, but after my now two year old was born it got much worse, due to lack of sleep, lack of sports and the permanent lifting of 13 kg. I tried a lot of things at home, the only relief were medical massages. This book "Foundation: Redefine Your Core, Conquer Back Pain, and Move with Confidence" did almost magic to my problems. The exercises are dead simple and I'm still amazed how well they help. Agreed, the infomercial nature is a bit off putting but don't let this distract you, the exercises are working
• pmarreck 9y ago
  Number 1 reason for your back pain is almost definitely having to do with the size of your gut in front of it.
• notadoc 9y ago
  Most people I've known with back pain related to weak or strained muscles were best helped with physical therapy. Often it means strengthening the abdominal muscles and loosening the chest/shoulders. Most of modern life is terrible for posture and is very sedentary, so this is not too surprising. Pain is wildly complex though, and the causes are not always understood or easily helped. Some people require pills and other treatments. The amount of media animosity towards pain medication and related vitriol spewed at doctors is shocking and totally unwarranted in most cases.
• mml 9y ago
  As a counterpoint to the "deadlifts fix everything" folks, I regularly (4-6 hours weekly) do deadlifts, squats, overhead squats, air squats, goblet squats, pistols, weighted pistols, muscle ups, snatches, situps, pushups, handstand holds, handstand pushups, power snatches, toes to bar, toes to elbow, thrusters, pull-ups, planks, couch stretch, pigeon stretch, vinyasa yoga, kettlebells etc etc etc. Pretty much total insanity. I've been a desk jockey for nearly a quarter century, and have had constant low back pain for nearly as long. My back feels terrible every day, particularly when deadlifting, or standing up from sitting on the throne for a bit. Chiros haven't helped (100% quackery imho, I've tried a dozen, and really want it to work), X-rays show nothing wrong. The only thing that has helped has been classic "80's ladies" leg movements (bird dogs, fire hydrants, movements like shown in the linked video), along with foam rolling out tightness in the hips. I suspect my hip flexors are extremely strong in one direction, and extremely weak in the opposing direction (medial glute), pulling my pelvis out of whack, and thereby hosing up my lower spine. Anyway, sometimes barbell work doesn't help. YMMV.
• tdsamardzhiev 9y ago
  Here's how I ended my back pain issues - 3x15 squats, 3x15 deadlifts, 3x15 pull-ups, 3x15 bench presses. Two times a week. A month down the road my back pain was a bad memory.