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Killing the 3.5mm Jack: How Simple Is Changing into Needlessly Complicated

269 points by lost_name 10y ago

20tibbygt06 10y ago
My car stereo has a 3.5mm jack. My TV has a 3.5mm jack. My speaker system has a 3.5mm jack. The new chromecast has the version with a 3.5mm jack. I just don't understand where manufactures are going with this. I recently got a small Bluetooth speaker and have problems pairing from time to time, but not when I have a 3.5mm jack. I just connect the cable and it works. Don't even get me started with battery drain. This is really annoying. It all reminds me of when I was searching for my first cellphone and most phone didn't have the jack. In the end my first cellphone (Samsung Omnia) didn't have a 3.5mm jack and it was really annoying having to buy an adapter in order to listen to music.
- waterphone 10y ago
  In my experience, Bluetooth is just the worst. It's consistently unreliable for me. Every Bluetooth device I've ever had has been a constant headache of pairing issues and random disconnects and reconnects, sometimes getting into a loop of that every few minutes. I don't know if that's a universal problem for everyone, but my negative experiences with it have been enough to turn me off wanting to buy anything Bluetooth and favor other solutions instead. I use a Logitech mouse with a little USB antenna instead of Bluetooth, which is consistently reliable and never has an issue, and normal headphones with a 3.5mm plug or non-Bluetooth wireless headphones which have no connectivity issues.
  - Turing_Machine 10y ago
    I've also had bad luck with Bluetooth phone stuff. On the other hand, my Bluetooth Mac keyboard seems rock-solid (other than dying when the battery goes dead, of course). I don't recall it ever losing its pairing. On the third hand, a Bluetooth iPad keyboard (not Apple-made) we had at a place I used to work was total crap. You could figure on having to go through the pairing process at least once a day.
    - waterphone 10y ago
      I haven't used an Apple Bluetooth keyboard but did use an Apple Bluetooth mouse some years ago that had endless loss of connection issues. Other non-Apple Bluetooth keyboards also have this issue, where I'll be typing and it randomly loses connection mid-word, then sometimes comes back after a few seconds and other times just decides it's not going to turn back on without manually turning it off and on and fiddling with Bluetooth settings on the computer before it finally returns, or not.
- lttlrck 10y ago
  Sony of all companies did the same thing with their Walkman cellphone! Drove me up the wall but I loved that phone.
mattkrea 10y ago
I imagine the author still has a CD drive and likely a 1.44 floppy drive as well. And maybe RCA cables instead of HDMI. I get that this is going to be rough at first (not for me) but does the author expect tech to stay the same forever?
- waterphone 10y ago
  When the replacement options are 1) vendor and device-specific, preventing the use of otherwise universally supported audio output devices or 2) vastly inferior technology, yes it should stay the same.
  - mattkrea 10y ago
    Well it's very likely that within 1-2 generations everything will be USB-C so I don't see the problem especially since Apple has gone with this already in the new MacBook. Even then.. You don't have to buy it. I didn't feel HDMI had any benefit over VGA for me for years and chose not to use it. You can do the same with this.
    - Feneric 10y ago
      Maybe. If within 2 generations everything has switched it'll likely be fine, although many not-easily-replaceable devices (like cars, for instance) will still use the old port. I think the concern is that everything won't be standardized within 2 generations, and instead we'll see the slow death of third party cables. And if that happens, it's likely that increased DRM and reduced freedom will follow.
- khedoros 10y ago
  Of course technology will change. Every once in a while, companies need a way to sell us slightly different versions of the things we already own. 3.5mm is reliable, ubiquitous, and cheap. I'll switch to the thing that adds a 4th item to that list.
  - mattkrea 10y ago
shivsta 10y ago
I don't want to need to charge up the battery in my headphones to use them. Dealing with a wire is much more simple and reliable than using Bluetooth, especially when you encounter pairing issues between different devices. Hopefully at least the BT pairing process will improve sometime soon (it hasn't gotten any easier in the past several years).
uudecode 10y ago
Older computers are getting more valuable ever day.
- rplst8 10y ago
  I think this more and more every year. The amount of technologic obsolescenced is growing with each passing day - and some of it, for no good reason. Getting rid of analog jacks that go directly before analog devices (like headphones) is just stupid. Putting DACs and amplifier circuitry inside of cables and headphones for the purpose of listening to high quality audio is just stupid.
- keithpeter 10y ago
  Dual Core Thinkpad from ebay delivered to local Argos for less than a ton. Pop Linux of your choice on it. Does 99% of what I need. Confession: I still use my Blackberry Bold 9000 but I have to admit attempting to listen to music on the thing flattens the battery (always has done).
kdamken 10y ago
I'm always blown away out how little cell phone manufacturers seem to listen to customer feedback. I don't care about my phone being paper thin. I'd guess most people don't either. Often I'm sitting at work with my headphones plugged into my computer to listen to music. I'll then see a little video or something has been sent to me by a friend on my phone. I unplug the headphones from my macbook, plug them into my phone, watch the video, then plug my headphones back into my macbook. Simple. Can you imagine what an annoying hassle it would be to have to pair and unpair the same bluetooth headphones between two devices like that? I'd be paranoid it's not connected to the right device and suddenly I'm blasting music to the people in my office. Not even including the fact that I now have another thing I need to worry about charging. I like my apple earbuds. They sound nice, let me control the volume and playback, and don't need to be charged. Also, all my nice headphones are 3.5mm. I don't want to have to get new ones, and I don't want to have to carry around a stupid lightning adaptor for them.
- crispyambulance 10y ago
  Why don't you plug your nice headphones/headset into the computer and pair your phone bluetooth to the computer? That way you can listen to audio from your phone and your computer without swapping jacks.
  - robin_reala 10y ago
    Great, until I use my Playstation Vita to play a game on my commute home. Then open my computer at home to watch a video. Or maybe plug my headphones into the PS4 pad. I’ve got 5 different systems I regularly plug my headphones into.
  - linker3000 10y ago
    I got my Bluetooth headset to pair and work with my laptop (2015 Dell) and Windows 8.1 for all of an evening before the audio stream quit. After around 4hr of troubleshooting and a few subsequent sessions in the office, gave up. That was about 6 months ago. I've reverted to a USB wired headset.
mwexler 10y ago
We already see folks like Bose making wireless (BT) noise-canceling in-ear headphones with no audio cable capability (QC30, http://www.cnet.com/products/bose-quietcontrol-30/ http://www.cnet.com/products/bose-quietcontrol-30/). The new Bose on-ear noise canceling wireless headphones QC35 (https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/featured/qc35.html https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/featured/qc35.html) do include the cable... but for how long? The original post tries to shy away from BT and wireless, but that may wind up being where things head, for better or worse.
- nwah1 10y ago
  BT5 is coming out with 4 times the bandwidth and 2 times the range. This may be enough to compete even in the audiophile market. Nobody wants to be chained to a cable while wearing headphones.
  - plorkyeran 10y ago
    Even if they solve the quality problem, I would much rather have a cable than have to charge my headphones.
    - wallacoloo 10y ago
      This seems like a moot point to me though. In one scenario, you have a 3.5mm cable from headphone to phone. In the other scenario you have a USB charging cable going from headphone to phone (which you can keep connected 24/7 if you really don't want to worry about draining it). So if the quality problem is solved, what's the difference?
    - nwah1 10y ago
      Many people use headphone stands, or some kind of hook under their desk. That hook could be where the charging occurs. Also, many people are talking about using ambient wifi transmissions as a power source.
mmastrac 10y ago
I'm going to be the one to argue here that this is a good thing. The barrel jack has had a long good run, yes. There will definitely be a period of painful transition, yes. In the long run, this will be good. The barrel jack is a hack and has a tonne of downsides. We hacked stereo into a mono plug. We then hacked a mic into the stereo plug. Hotplug detection is a patented minefield mess. It's a big plug that tends to collect cruft and makes it difficult to waterproof devices. Eventually we'll have USB-C DACs that are cheap and small enough to keep connected to the ends of your headphones. For people that don't care about audio quality, a $5 Chinese-branded adapter from Amazon will be indistinguishable in a few years.
- bodyfour 10y ago
  They also hacked volume+pause controls onto the jack using flaky impedance tricks. I've had bad luck getting those controls working with TRRS extension cables. People also use active noise-cancelling headphones that require their own battery. I'm a bit nervous about the transition away from the classic 3.5 jack, especially since it looks like it'll probably be a standards war between the Apple and Android worlds. There are, however, some nice potential advantages.
  - oasisbob 10y ago
    > I've had bad luck getting those controls working with TRRS extension cables. Ugh. That. A tip: always ensure that the extension cable is attached to the auxiliary device (eg headset) first. One of those flaky impedance tricks is to try and detect the microphone through it's impedance when the TRRS jack senses a plug. If you plug the extension cable in first, the device detects the plug in the jack, can't detect the microphone (or whatever other magical device it's looking for - like volume controls), and disables anything it doesn't detect until the plug is removed. ( At least that's how my Macbook works. )
- cm2187 10y ago
  Do you think we will have USB-C ports on iPhones?
- kirykl 10y ago
arielweisberg 10y ago
As a borderline audiophile I have mixed feelings mostly tending towards solution in search of a problem. The DACs in Apple products have a very good reputation going all the way back to the early iPods and supposedly they kept getting better. When I travel I bring an Objective 2 headphone amp and AKG Q701 or Beyderdynamic DT-880 600ohm and use my iPhone 6+ as a music player and DAC. I can't tell the difference between that and the Objective 2 + ODAC I have at home. In terms of pieces of the audio chain I think DAC is one of the least important in my anecdatal experience. At least if you have a decent one like any Apple device. Onboard audio from a PC/laptop motherboard is generally awful and even dedicated sound cards are full of noise and whine. I am very glad to have HDMI audio these days. A USB sound card trivially fixes the issue though. So yeah it's nice for high end DACs to become more common, but is it that useful over the convenience of a solid built in DAC? I don't think so. That said I suspect the market will respond with adapters and cases that resurrect the 3.5 inch jack without a huge fuss and still pass through other functionality like syncing and charging. For myself and most of Hacker News with above average incomes this is going to be a minor speed bump in terms of cost and a larger inconvenience in terms of more kit to lug around and swap between devices.
- Declanomous 10y ago
  >The DACs in Apple products have a very good reputation going all the way back to the early iPods I do not think this is the case at all. I recall the early iPods being blasted for their sound quality. One of the huge "wins" for the Microsoft Zune over the iPod was the audio quality. Everyone I know who owned a Zune was an audiophile. I have no idea what the sound quality on current iPods/iPhones/iWhatevers is like. Maybe the DAC on the old iPod was held back by the codecs that Apple chose to use at the time. I know Apple created ALAC, and improved the quality of the lossy codecs at some point. Regardless, the audio quality of the oldest iPods was poorly regarded in general.
  - legodt 10y ago
    You are correct about early Zune having an advantage over the iPod. As time went on though, the larger iPods, now known as the Classic, began to ship with Wolfson DACs- a well respected DAC for portable audio. Side note: ALAC, although lossless, never upset FLAC for a reason. Primarily because FLAC was open and ALAC was closed. EDIT: Please disregard last comment, it has been corrected by a reply below this
cwyers 10y ago
I use the 3.5mm jack to send audio out to my car stereo (which is up to date enough to have a 3.5mm input but not up to date enough to have Bluetooth input), and it's a pain in the rear, and I go through five or six cables a year. I'm not sure 3.5mm audio is the hill we all need to die on in the war against the march of technology.
- cm2187 10y ago
  Logical conclusion, you should buy a new Apple-approved car to fit the new iphone ports.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    You already can: http://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/ http://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/
- Daishiman 10y ago
  Bude, buy cables that are not total crap. I DJ and I go through cables like no one's business but my home setup has had the same cables for years and they only cost me a couple more bucks than the bottom-tier stuff.
  - cwyers 10y ago
    If you have a "not crap cable" recommendation I'd love to hear it, but at the same time, I suspect your home setup doesn't involve plugging something into a jack and then removing it quite as many times a day as plugging a phone into a car stereo.
    - sethhochberg 10y ago
      TS connectors were literally designed for telephone switchboards that are connected and disconnected on a near-constant basis. Consumer audio companies happily sell plastic garbage in fancy colors without strain relief, any compensation for compression and wear on the cable itself, and with low-grade connectors... but these are solved problems in the professional world. If you're a heavy user, buy a cable intended for professional use. As an example, look at these: https://www.amazon.com/Mogami-Stereo-Cable-3-5mm-Neutrik/dp/B00SQLPO1U https://www.amazon.com/Mogami-Stereo-Cable-3-5mm-Neutrik/dp/... http://www.markertek.com/product/msc1-5mzmz/mogami-audio-cable-3-5mm-trs-male-to-3-5mm-trs-male-1-5-foot-black http://www.markertek.com/product/msc1-5mzmz/mogami-audio-cab... Mogami specializes in entertainment-grade cable which is often certified to be waterproof, crushproof, oil resistant, UV resistant, etc. The connectors used are from Neutrik, who are also highly reputable. In the event that something goes wrong the parts are usually hand-repairable, and often you can find cable/connector assemblies carrying lifetime warranties. Other reputable names to look for are Belden and Carnare on the cable side and Switchcraft on the connector side.
waimbes 10y ago
I agree with some of the stuff in here but... > So while Apple will be successfully pushing its customers towards its Lightning port powered headphones on an established (Apple) standard with readily available products, Android OEM’s that choose follow Lenovo fight a largely uphill battle and an empty ecosystem. This is nothing short of ridiculous. iPhone users have a bit more spending power, but android still represents a huge majority of smartphone users. There is just no chance whatsoever that headphone manufacturers don't target android. We might see a very brief lag while android sort of "switches over," but in the meantime everyone else can just use 3.5mm like they always have.
- kevincox 10y ago
  That's if they all switched at the same time. Unfortunately right now only one manufacturer is willing to make the change.
cm2187 10y ago
I'd be OK with killing the audio jack if it was replaced with a common and better standard. But right now, my laptop will have a 3.5mm jack, the iphone 7 will have a lightening port, and any other device will likely use a USB based port. I just have zero appetite to walk around with 3 different earphones or to have to carry multiple dongles in my pocket. I am not going to follow manufacturers on this until they have a solution that is convenient. And that's just to remain at par with 3.5mm in term of convenience. Now what do I get for having to replace my headset? Am I really going to notice the difference in quality when I am travelling? Really? It looks to me that it is rather another pathetic attempt to lock people into their hardware, with only Apple approved earphones being compatible with the iphone, etc...
- blisterpeanuts 10y ago
  I agree, and I hope someone in the Google Nexus group recognizes the lunacy of removing such a widely accepted port. Maybe Samsung will keep the phone jack, at least; they've been pretty stubborn about keeping a microSD memory slot as well.
  - cm2187 10y ago
    The microSD slot is actually why I use a Samsung tablet to watch movies. That and the 16/9 screen.
- jjrh 10y ago
  > It looks to me that it is rather another pathetic attempt to lock people into their hardware, with only Apple approved earphones being compatible with the iphone, etc... It reminds me of a much more agressive attempt apple made way back with the ipod's headphone jack being slightly deeper (if I remember correctly) effectively making many headphones not function correctly. Maybe back then that was more branding than control - seeing those white earbuds told everyone you owned a ipod and not one of the other brands.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    Actually it was just a way to have the jack be thinner -- the usual place a lot of trouble with Apple starts.
ungzd 10y ago
Today I see less and less people outside listening music either using phone or dedicated player. Maybe that's the reason: companies found out that too few people use headphones?
- throwanem 10y ago
  You couldn't prove it by me; on the train I take to commute, every third person or so has headphones on, and maybe every fifth person on the sidewalk.
- Freak_NL 10y ago
  From what I have observed (in the Netherlands) a pair of headphones is pretty much standard issue for smombies and commuters. I don't see any signs of that lessening. Where are you from?
  - ungzd 10y ago
    Russia. Seems that it's a local trend. 3 years ago lots of people on public transit listened to music and used headphones, now it's extremelly rare. I don't know what's happened.
pizza 10y ago
One thing I've noticed nowadays is that 'AUX cord' is common nomenclature whereas there used to be a time when people would just look at me funny when I said it.
gcb0 10y ago
remember that both nokia and apple already tried that. nokia with custom headset pop ports. and apple with pins changes on the 3,5mm plug that resulted in the plagged state of incompatibility screwing users to this day. thanks apple greed when one 3.5mm headset mic and buttons don't work on one device.
nradov 10y ago
I know switching jack standards is always a hassle, but at least USB is at least a little less prone to foreign object contamination. I tried to watch a movie during a recent flight only to discover that there was a dog treat crumb stuck down in the bottom of my cell phone's 3.5mm audio port so I couldn't insert the headphone plug.
- ohitsdom 10y ago
  Ah, the classic discovered-dog-treat-in-headphone-jack-while-flying scenario. We've all been there.
- HelloNurse 10y ago
  Mini-USB, Micro-USB and USB-C sockets are all more than large enough to be filled by sand, lint, crumbs, etc.
  - nradov 10y ago
    Sure but in my experience because the ports are shallower its easier to see debris and clean them out just by blowing.
niftich 10y ago
So when the 3.5mm jack is killed, we'll get two USB-C/Lightning ports on our phones, right?
- detaro 10y ago
  Sounds expensive to manufacture. You sure customers won't buy a $39.95 adapter cable instead? (/s)
- moogly 10y ago
  Hah. Not when Apple loves dongles.
Wildgoose 10y ago
I've just bought one of the new iPhone SE models specifically because it still has a 3.5mm jack as well as 20% better battery life than the large iPhone 6 models it shares its internals with. Ever larger and thinner simply does not make sense. The whole point of a mobile phone is that they are robust, portable and practicable and both the above trends are acting against those purposes.
analog31 10y ago
As an amusing aside, the big daddy of the 3.5mm jack has been in use for electric guitars (and other amplified musical instruments) for at least 70 years. It's only been within the last decade that the "quarter inch" has been supplanted for connecting speakers, probably due to EU safety regulations.
rplst8 10y ago
I would be remiss if I didn't point out a huge error in this article... > USB-powered headphones will (in theory) run a lot like Bluetooth headphones which have their own DAC/AMP. Your phone passes the raw data through to the headphones and it does the required converting. This can be a great thing. Instead of relying on a poorly-calibrated DAC in the particular phone that you are using, you can instead move that component to a piece of hardware you can control. So if 24-bit uncompressed audio is your thing you can have it with any audio source. While this increases the cost of the headphones it will also produce better quality audio if you are willing to put some money into it, which is a win in my book. In this scenario laid out by the author, audio from your music is passed on to a BT device untouched. This is most certainly NOT the case. Regardless of the format of the source audio, uncompressed (WAV,AUF), lossless compressed (ALAC, FLAC, SHN), or lossy (MP3, AAC, etc.), the data is transcoded and repackaged into the Bluetooth stream. What this means is that lossless audio becomes lossy, and lossy audio gets even more lossy. The author's assertion that if "24-bit uncompressed audio is your thing you can have it..." is pure B.S. You will be at the mercy of whatever link is between your source device (phone) and your listening device (headset/speaker) and what ever hacking of the audio signal it does.
- Unklejoe 10y ago
  I thought there was a way to pass an MP3 stream directly over Bluetooth without modifying (transcoding) it? I could be wrong.
  - rplst8 10y ago
    Maybe there is. I've seen references to the ability to encapsulate a compressed stream directly. That said, support for it varies widely. However, uncompressed 24-bit audio is not gonna happen.
  - niftich 10y ago
    This is theoretically possible. However, every discussion I could find indicates that it's most likely not implemented, as it'd require bypassing the final mixer -- and then you wouldn't get the control blips and phone rings over the A2DP link. [1] http://forum.powerampapp.com/index.php?/topic/7586-bit-perfect-streaming-should-be-possible-with-bluetooth-is-it/ http://forum.powerampapp.com/index.php?/topic/7586-bit-perfe... [2] https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,104654.0.html https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,104654.0.html [3] http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/26410/how-do-i-determine-which-a2dp-codecs-my-phone-supports-is-currently-using http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/26410/how-do-i-de... [4] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6654180 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6654180 [5] http://www.cnet.com/news/can-aptx-give-you-better-sound-over-bluetooth/ http://www.cnet.com/news/can-aptx-give-you-better-sound-over... [6] http://stereos.about.com/od/Wireless/fl/What-You-Might-Not-Know-About-Bluetooth.htm http://stereos.about.com/od/Wireless/fl/What-You-Might-Not-K...
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Unklejoe 10y ago
I see a lot of comments that say something along the lines of "Apple knows best about what its customers want. The fact that we would prefer to keep the headphone jack doesn't matter because we don't necessarily represent the average customer." However, I think that's giving them too much credit. It's not that Apple "knows what the people actually want", it's that Apple knows how far it can "push" the customers to extract the most amount of money possible. It is a business afterall. Also, they want to lock people into proprietary protocols. The headphone jack isn’t proprietary. Apple probably hates the fact that you can plug a pair of Sony headphones into an iPhone. They know that they have a large enough market share to be able to “drive” things they way they want. As for the other manufacturers ditching the jack as well, they are just following Apple. If Moto was the only company doing this, no one would care. The people who want the jack would simply buy another phone. However, in the case of the iPhone, the barriers of simply switching to another phone are much larger. It's unlikely that someone who wishes they had the headphone jack is going to switch to Android just because of that. They will probably just end up biting the bullet and buying whatever adapter is required by Apple.
howfun 10y ago
Simple fix. Will not be buying such phone.
curiousgal 10y ago
To me, most of the arguments against this move sound as if they have their backs against the wall. Well, you don't, you are not forced to buy it and that will send the message that it's a stupid move. But if we keep moaning about it and purchase the device, it'll be a sign of acceptance. This leads me to another rant, take a look at the iPhone 6s or the Galaxy S7 Active, does a user really need a more powerful device? Especially since the use cases are 75% browsing the web and watching videos.
gwbas1c 10y ago
There's a lot of good that can come from a 100% digital connection between headphones and the player, although I think it's too early to just drop the 3.5mm jack. For example, a set of headphones could equalize itself around flaws in its drivers to have a more accurate playback. Perhaps this kind of thing should be test-marketed first? Maybe keep the 3.5mm jack around until there's some kind of adoption?
Osiris 10y ago
If it's about thinness, why not just go with 2.5mm? Maybe there's a more technical reason like VGA. I recall reading a primary reason to get rid of the VGA connector had to do with it being an analog signal and the extra electronics required to convert the digital to analog, while a digital connection like HDMI and DisplayPort was simpler.
dredmorbius 10y ago
Here's why I want physical ports. If I can plug in my earphones and microphone, I can unplug them. And unplugged, they're dead. No non-wired alternative offers that simple, visually-confirmable affordance. And if you want to kill something on the device, kill the onboard mic.
- vincentkriek 10y ago
  Wait - you want phone manufacturers to not put a mic on a phone by default? So you'd have to use a BT/plug in headset to call?
  - dredmorbius 10y ago
    Yes. As an option. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11841817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11841817
  - ashitlerferad 10y ago
    Yes, makes them less easy for the NSA to turn into a remote bug.
martin-adams 10y ago
Whatever the proposed change is I do hope the following happens: - It is industry standard - I can use an adapter to put my exiting headphones into it and still use those headphones on legacy devices - I can use headphones and charge my device at the same time (i.e. not sharing the same port) - It is sturdy. The Micro USB is too flimsy for me to use for headphones and stuff in my pocket in it's current form.
kevincox 10y ago
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I actually like this. I'm a huge fan at reducing the number of different ports on our devices, and if we can make them the same across phones and computers even better. So this means that I can plug in one USB3 hub and my monitor, speakers, microphone, and external storage are now connected to my computer. That sounds awesome. We are back to docking stations without the propitiatory connectors. However I think that a transition period would be nice. Then again, is anyone going to transition if they aren't forced to?
alkonaut 10y ago
Wouldn't the simple solution be to just replace the 3.5mm analog jack with a 1.5mm analog jack? As long as I have proper analog out I don't mind using an adapter for my old headphones.
nerevarthelame 10y ago
If you want to kill the 3.5mm jack, then the solution is to invest in making Bluetooth headphones less obnoxious to use. Temporarily forcing the world to bungle with USB-C and Lightning adapters, device-specific headphones, and\or poorly developed Bluetooth headphones (which all have relatively short battery lives, obnoxious pairing procedures, etc.) is insane. I wish manufacturers would instead invest in making Bluetooth headphones so nice and functional that people don't want a 3.5mm jack, and then you can kill it mercifully.
Animats 10y ago
If the phone industry is going to go that way, they should go for no connectors at all, wireless charging, and a hermetically sealed unit. Less to go wrong. The battery doesn't need to be replaceable, just better. Use lithium iron phosphate batteries. Those are good for > 2000 charge cycles, instead of the 500 or so for ordinary lithium-ion. You take only a 14% hit in capacity for this. Headphones should be Bluetooth. With WiFi and GSM, who needs a a cable? There's no reason screens should crack before their user does. Check out the Caterpillar B15 phone. You can drop it, pound on it with a hammer, and run over it with a car without damaging it.[1][2] You shouldn't have to fix a phone. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xaq3pduPv4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xaq3pduPv4
sverige 10y ago
If Apple goes this direction, I'm going to be unhappy. The only (literally, only) reason I got an iPhone 6+ was because Google / Android decided they are my mommy and automatically turned down the volume after a short while when I listened to music in my truck. I listen using a 3.5 mm jack since the USB connector on the radio broke from too many cycles of plugging and unplugging. So maybe a few Android phones will retain the 3.5 mm plug and I could use those when this iPhone craps out (battery is already showing its age by cycling faster), but then I'm stuck having to root the phone and do some xda-developer shit to try to overcome the nanny turning down the volume. Obviously that wasn't worth the effort to me, since I bought my first-ever Apple product to get away from that kind of stupidity.
dogma1138 10y ago
The lightning cable is compatible with USB, since it's other data paths are hdmi and a few others I don't think that apple headphones would use something proprietary just connect to the phone via the usb path if so dumb adapters can be used to convert them to usb type c easily and cheaply.
kristianp 10y ago
On a side-note, the DragonFly that is mentioned in a picture is $149 retail! [1] Anyone have a recommendation for a reasonable quality USB DAC/Amp that isn't audiophile price? Also "AMP" isn't an acronym. [1] http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/AQ_PB_US-Retail_15-12-01.pdf http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/AQ_PB_U...
princeb 10y ago
if you are the audiophile kind, then you may already have an portable dac/amp that you use with your phone, or have attached to your pc through spdif/usb that then goes into your headphones, bypassing the onboard dac/amp. what will happen is that some headphone manufacturers will start selling headphones with internal dac/amps. there are plenty of pc-oriented headphones that have that, and the gaming oriented ones even have onboard audio processing for surround emulation, like dolby atmos or dolby headphones kind of technology. but what will also happen is that most performance headphone manufacturers will continue making whatever they were making before because a lot of audio equipment out there still rely on the (1/4") phone connectors, and don't need to have dac/amps built into the headphones because the equipment should have their own already. if consumers don't care, they'll just continue using the earphones that comes with the iphone, which will likely work out of the box, or they may buy something else off the rack (like beats which will almost surely make headphones that are compatible with the new iphone) that comes with better speakers. if consumers do care, then they'll get to put whatever dac/amp they love in between their iphone and their headphones. but there are some consumers that care enough about good headphones but not enough about good dac/amps (because honestly most smartphone dacs are already pretty good on their own), who will have an existing pair of headphones they like very much but will need to fork out a little bit more for a dac/amp they don't have. hopefully with apple forcing this arrangement, dac/amps become less of a hobby purchase and we'll see some mass market $10 portable dac/amps hit the stores.
coroutines 10y ago
I am thinking..: - Intel is working on adding analog audio over some unused pins on USB 3.1 (sfaik) - Even if USB gets analog audio we will probably see the DAC+amp in computers and phones go away so they have more room for a battery - With USB 3.1 headphones there would be a DAC+amp in/on the headphones - With a DAC+amp on the headphones we could select to use the host computers' DAC+amp or the headphones' DAC+amp. Choice between quality or battery life? - DRM sucks dicks - but there will always be a way to get between the DAC and the speaker for recording. Let's just limit consumer choice, amirite? - Phones and laptops are all going USB, but there aren't nearly enough ports - I thought we killed fucking docks in the 90s. They're BACK?!?! - USB and keyboard-cases became so expensive when tablets became popular... docks for more ports and audio will similarly be $100 and above. - We might see the DAC+amp become another accessory to interchange between the digital audio source and the speakers. Another $100 device for enthusiasts. - Lightning seems way better than USB type-c (physically better), but no way am I buying it just to be in the Apple crowd. - Cash grab or DRM blitz? or both?
- notatoad 10y ago
  >Intel is working on adding analog audio over some unused pins on USB 3.1. This was some bad reporting by one of the tech blogs last week - Intel was talking this up at IDF in 2014 and the author of this article didn't fact check it (and admitted his mistake on the Reddit discussion of this article). Audio adapter mode has been part of the usb type-c connector spec since its conception. Passing analog audio out over a couple pins is part of the spec, and not in any way experimental or undefined.
  - coroutines 10y ago
    I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly - it should already be supported by the spec, but was misreported on by this other tech blog?
Hondor 10y ago
Whenever I see these negative responses to eliminating legacy technology, I think "would you prefer to wind the clock back and add any obsolete things?" Is there any now-gone port that phones/computers should reinstate or is this the very first one that ever appeared in history and our current situation is the final state of perfection? The inconvenience and cost of changing over is usually less than the extra value gained from the progress in the long term. The difficulty is persuading people choosing to initiate the changeover. It'll only happen with industry leading phone makers forcing it on us. After a couple of years we'll all settle down into the new way and people will stop complaining because everything will be easier.
- jayd16 10y ago
  The counter point to this is that not every step is a step forward. I'd be far more willing to accept this kind of change if it wasn't so obviously going to split the market into iOS, Android, and every thing else type headphones.
  - Hondor 10y ago
    If Apple goes to USB-C then it'll do the opposite of split the market. Of course it'll be a massive step back if it spawns lightning versions of headphones on top of 3.5mm and USB-C. But that's not a sure thing. What is a sure thing is the current suboptimal state of having two kinds of plug when only one is really needed.

269 points by lost_name 10y ago

My car stereo has a 3.5mm jack. My TV has a 3.5mm jack. My speaker system has a 3.5mm jack. The new chromecast has the version with a 3.5mm jack. I just don't understand where manufactures are going with this. I recently got a small Bluetooth speaker and have problems pairing from time to time, but not when I have a 3.5mm jack. I just connect the cable and it works. Don't even get me started with battery drain. This is really annoying. It all reminds me of when I was searching for my first cellphone and most phone didn't have the jack. In the end my first cellphone (Samsung Omnia) didn't have a 3.5mm jack and it was really annoying having to buy an adapter in order to listen to music.

waterphone 10y ago
In my experience, Bluetooth is just the worst. It's consistently unreliable for me. Every Bluetooth device I've ever had has been a constant headache of pairing issues and random disconnects and reconnects, sometimes getting into a loop of that every few minutes. I don't know if that's a universal problem for everyone, but my negative experiences with it have been enough to turn me off wanting to buy anything Bluetooth and favor other solutions instead. I use a Logitech mouse with a little USB antenna instead of Bluetooth, which is consistently reliable and never has an issue, and normal headphones with a 3.5mm plug or non-Bluetooth wireless headphones which have no connectivity issues.
- Turing_Machine 10y ago
  I've also had bad luck with Bluetooth phone stuff. On the other hand, my Bluetooth Mac keyboard seems rock-solid (other than dying when the battery goes dead, of course). I don't recall it ever losing its pairing. On the third hand, a Bluetooth iPad keyboard (not Apple-made) we had at a place I used to work was total crap. You could figure on having to go through the pairing process at least once a day.
  - waterphone 10y ago
    I haven't used an Apple Bluetooth keyboard but did use an Apple Bluetooth mouse some years ago that had endless loss of connection issues. Other non-Apple Bluetooth keyboards also have this issue, where I'll be typing and it randomly loses connection mid-word, then sometimes comes back after a few seconds and other times just decides it's not going to turn back on without manually turning it off and on and fiddling with Bluetooth settings on the computer before it finally returns, or not.
lttlrck 10y ago
Sony of all companies did the same thing with their Walkman cellphone! Drove me up the wall but I loved that phone.

mattkrea 10y ago

I imagine the author still has a CD drive and likely a 1.44 floppy drive as well. And maybe RCA cables instead of HDMI. I get that this is going to be rough at first (not for me) but does the author expect tech to stay the same forever?

waterphone 10y ago
When the replacement options are 1) vendor and device-specific, preventing the use of otherwise universally supported audio output devices or 2) vastly inferior technology, yes it should stay the same.
- mattkrea 10y ago
  Well it's very likely that within 1-2 generations everything will be USB-C so I don't see the problem especially since Apple has gone with this already in the new MacBook. Even then.. You don't have to buy it. I didn't feel HDMI had any benefit over VGA for me for years and chose not to use it. You can do the same with this.
  - Feneric 10y ago
    Maybe. If within 2 generations everything has switched it'll likely be fine, although many not-easily-replaceable devices (like cars, for instance) will still use the old port. I think the concern is that everything won't be standardized within 2 generations, and instead we'll see the slow death of third party cables. And if that happens, it's likely that increased DRM and reduced freedom will follow.
khedoros 10y ago
Of course technology will change. Every once in a while, companies need a way to sell us slightly different versions of the things we already own. 3.5mm is reliable, ubiquitous, and cheap. I'll switch to the thing that adds a 4th item to that list.
- mattkrea 10y ago

shivsta 10y ago

I don't want to need to charge up the battery in my headphones to use them. Dealing with a wire is much more simple and reliable than using Bluetooth, especially when you encounter pairing issues between different devices. Hopefully at least the BT pairing process will improve sometime soon (it hasn't gotten any easier in the past several years).

uudecode 10y ago

Older computers are getting more valuable ever day.

rplst8 10y ago
I think this more and more every year. The amount of technologic obsolescenced is growing with each passing day - and some of it, for no good reason. Getting rid of analog jacks that go directly before analog devices (like headphones) is just stupid. Putting DACs and amplifier circuitry inside of cables and headphones for the purpose of listening to high quality audio is just stupid.
keithpeter 10y ago
Dual Core Thinkpad from ebay delivered to local Argos for less than a ton. Pop Linux of your choice on it. Does 99% of what I need. Confession: I still use my Blackberry Bold 9000 but I have to admit attempting to listen to music on the thing flattens the battery (always has done).

kdamken 10y ago

I'm always blown away out how little cell phone manufacturers seem to listen to customer feedback. I don't care about my phone being paper thin. I'd guess most people don't either. Often I'm sitting at work with my headphones plugged into my computer to listen to music. I'll then see a little video or something has been sent to me by a friend on my phone. I unplug the headphones from my macbook, plug them into my phone, watch the video, then plug my headphones back into my macbook. Simple. Can you imagine what an annoying hassle it would be to have to pair and unpair the same bluetooth headphones between two devices like that? I'd be paranoid it's not connected to the right device and suddenly I'm blasting music to the people in my office. Not even including the fact that I now have another thing I need to worry about charging. I like my apple earbuds. They sound nice, let me control the volume and playback, and don't need to be charged. Also, all my nice headphones are 3.5mm. I don't want to have to get new ones, and I don't want to have to carry around a stupid lightning adaptor for them.

crispyambulance 10y ago
Why don't you plug your nice headphones/headset into the computer and pair your phone bluetooth to the computer? That way you can listen to audio from your phone and your computer without swapping jacks.
- robin_reala 10y ago
  Great, until I use my Playstation Vita to play a game on my commute home. Then open my computer at home to watch a video. Or maybe plug my headphones into the PS4 pad. I’ve got 5 different systems I regularly plug my headphones into.
- linker3000 10y ago
  I got my Bluetooth headset to pair and work with my laptop (2015 Dell) and Windows 8.1 for all of an evening before the audio stream quit. After around 4hr of troubleshooting and a few subsequent sessions in the office, gave up. That was about 6 months ago. I've reverted to a USB wired headset.

mwexler 10y ago

We already see folks like Bose making wireless (BT) noise-canceling in-ear headphones with no audio cable capability (QC30, http://www.cnet.com/products/bose-quietcontrol-30/ http://www.cnet.com/products/bose-quietcontrol-30/). The new Bose on-ear noise canceling wireless headphones QC35 (https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/featured/qc35.html https://www.bose.com/en_us/products/featured/qc35.html) do include the cable... but for how long? The original post tries to shy away from BT and wireless, but that may wind up being where things head, for better or worse.

nwah1 10y ago
BT5 is coming out with 4 times the bandwidth and 2 times the range. This may be enough to compete even in the audiophile market. Nobody wants to be chained to a cable while wearing headphones.
- plorkyeran 10y ago
  Even if they solve the quality problem, I would much rather have a cable than have to charge my headphones.
  - wallacoloo 10y ago
    This seems like a moot point to me though. In one scenario, you have a 3.5mm cable from headphone to phone. In the other scenario you have a USB charging cable going from headphone to phone (which you can keep connected 24/7 if you really don't want to worry about draining it). So if the quality problem is solved, what's the difference?
  - nwah1 10y ago
    Many people use headphone stands, or some kind of hook under their desk. That hook could be where the charging occurs. Also, many people are talking about using ambient wifi transmissions as a power source.

mmastrac 10y ago

I'm going to be the one to argue here that this is a good thing. The barrel jack has had a long good run, yes. There will definitely be a period of painful transition, yes. In the long run, this will be good. The barrel jack is a hack and has a tonne of downsides. We hacked stereo into a mono plug. We then hacked a mic into the stereo plug. Hotplug detection is a patented minefield mess. It's a big plug that tends to collect cruft and makes it difficult to waterproof devices. Eventually we'll have USB-C DACs that are cheap and small enough to keep connected to the ends of your headphones. For people that don't care about audio quality, a $5 Chinese-branded adapter from Amazon will be indistinguishable in a few years.

bodyfour 10y ago
They also hacked volume+pause controls onto the jack using flaky impedance tricks. I've had bad luck getting those controls working with TRRS extension cables. People also use active noise-cancelling headphones that require their own battery. I'm a bit nervous about the transition away from the classic 3.5 jack, especially since it looks like it'll probably be a standards war between the Apple and Android worlds. There are, however, some nice potential advantages.
- oasisbob 10y ago
  > I've had bad luck getting those controls working with TRRS extension cables. Ugh. That. A tip: always ensure that the extension cable is attached to the auxiliary device (eg headset) first. One of those flaky impedance tricks is to try and detect the microphone through it's impedance when the TRRS jack senses a plug. If you plug the extension cable in first, the device detects the plug in the jack, can't detect the microphone (or whatever other magical device it's looking for - like volume controls), and disables anything it doesn't detect until the plug is removed. ( At least that's how my Macbook works. )
cm2187 10y ago
Do you think we will have USB-C ports on iPhones?
kirykl 10y ago

arielweisberg 10y ago

As a borderline audiophile I have mixed feelings mostly tending towards solution in search of a problem. The DACs in Apple products have a very good reputation going all the way back to the early iPods and supposedly they kept getting better. When I travel I bring an Objective 2 headphone amp and AKG Q701 or Beyderdynamic DT-880 600ohm and use my iPhone 6+ as a music player and DAC. I can't tell the difference between that and the Objective 2 + ODAC I have at home. In terms of pieces of the audio chain I think DAC is one of the least important in my anecdatal experience. At least if you have a decent one like any Apple device. Onboard audio from a PC/laptop motherboard is generally awful and even dedicated sound cards are full of noise and whine. I am very glad to have HDMI audio these days. A USB sound card trivially fixes the issue though. So yeah it's nice for high end DACs to become more common, but is it that useful over the convenience of a solid built in DAC? I don't think so. That said I suspect the market will respond with adapters and cases that resurrect the 3.5 inch jack without a huge fuss and still pass through other functionality like syncing and charging. For myself and most of Hacker News with above average incomes this is going to be a minor speed bump in terms of cost and a larger inconvenience in terms of more kit to lug around and swap between devices.

Declanomous 10y ago
>The DACs in Apple products have a very good reputation going all the way back to the early iPods I do not think this is the case at all. I recall the early iPods being blasted for their sound quality. One of the huge "wins" for the Microsoft Zune over the iPod was the audio quality. Everyone I know who owned a Zune was an audiophile. I have no idea what the sound quality on current iPods/iPhones/iWhatevers is like. Maybe the DAC on the old iPod was held back by the codecs that Apple chose to use at the time. I know Apple created ALAC, and improved the quality of the lossy codecs at some point. Regardless, the audio quality of the oldest iPods was poorly regarded in general.
- legodt 10y ago
  You are correct about early Zune having an advantage over the iPod. As time went on though, the larger iPods, now known as the Classic, began to ship with Wolfson DACs- a well respected DAC for portable audio. Side note: ALAC, although lossless, never upset FLAC for a reason. Primarily because FLAC was open and ALAC was closed. EDIT: Please disregard last comment, it has been corrected by a reply below this

cwyers 10y ago

I use the 3.5mm jack to send audio out to my car stereo (which is up to date enough to have a 3.5mm input but not up to date enough to have Bluetooth input), and it's a pain in the rear, and I go through five or six cables a year. I'm not sure 3.5mm audio is the hill we all need to die on in the war against the march of technology.

cm2187 10y ago
Logical conclusion, you should buy a new Apple-approved car to fit the new iphone ports.
- throwanem 10y ago
  You already can: http://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/ http://www.apple.com/ios/carplay/
Daishiman 10y ago
Bude, buy cables that are not total crap. I DJ and I go through cables like no one's business but my home setup has had the same cables for years and they only cost me a couple more bucks than the bottom-tier stuff.
- cwyers 10y ago
  If you have a "not crap cable" recommendation I'd love to hear it, but at the same time, I suspect your home setup doesn't involve plugging something into a jack and then removing it quite as many times a day as plugging a phone into a car stereo.
  - sethhochberg 10y ago
    TS connectors were literally designed for telephone switchboards that are connected and disconnected on a near-constant basis. Consumer audio companies happily sell plastic garbage in fancy colors without strain relief, any compensation for compression and wear on the cable itself, and with low-grade connectors... but these are solved problems in the professional world. If you're a heavy user, buy a cable intended for professional use. As an example, look at these: https://www.amazon.com/Mogami-Stereo-Cable-3-5mm-Neutrik/dp/B00SQLPO1U https://www.amazon.com/Mogami-Stereo-Cable-3-5mm-Neutrik/dp/... http://www.markertek.com/product/msc1-5mzmz/mogami-audio-cable-3-5mm-trs-male-to-3-5mm-trs-male-1-5-foot-black http://www.markertek.com/product/msc1-5mzmz/mogami-audio-cab... Mogami specializes in entertainment-grade cable which is often certified to be waterproof, crushproof, oil resistant, UV resistant, etc. The connectors used are from Neutrik, who are also highly reputable. In the event that something goes wrong the parts are usually hand-repairable, and often you can find cable/connector assemblies carrying lifetime warranties. Other reputable names to look for are Belden and Carnare on the cable side and Switchcraft on the connector side.

waimbes 10y ago

I agree with some of the stuff in here but... > So while Apple will be successfully pushing its customers towards its Lightning port powered headphones on an established (Apple) standard with readily available products, Android OEM’s that choose follow Lenovo fight a largely uphill battle and an empty ecosystem. This is nothing short of ridiculous. iPhone users have a bit more spending power, but android still represents a huge majority of smartphone users. There is just no chance whatsoever that headphone manufacturers don't target android. We might see a very brief lag while android sort of "switches over," but in the meantime everyone else can just use 3.5mm like they always have.

kevincox 10y ago
That's if they all switched at the same time. Unfortunately right now only one manufacturer is willing to make the change.

cm2187 10y ago

I'd be OK with killing the audio jack if it was replaced with a common and better standard. But right now, my laptop will have a 3.5mm jack, the iphone 7 will have a lightening port, and any other device will likely use a USB based port. I just have zero appetite to walk around with 3 different earphones or to have to carry multiple dongles in my pocket. I am not going to follow manufacturers on this until they have a solution that is convenient. And that's just to remain at par with 3.5mm in term of convenience. Now what do I get for having to replace my headset? Am I really going to notice the difference in quality when I am travelling? Really? It looks to me that it is rather another pathetic attempt to lock people into their hardware, with only Apple approved earphones being compatible with the iphone, etc...

blisterpeanuts 10y ago
I agree, and I hope someone in the Google Nexus group recognizes the lunacy of removing such a widely accepted port. Maybe Samsung will keep the phone jack, at least; they've been pretty stubborn about keeping a microSD memory slot as well.
- cm2187 10y ago
  The microSD slot is actually why I use a Samsung tablet to watch movies. That and the 16/9 screen.
jjrh 10y ago
> It looks to me that it is rather another pathetic attempt to lock people into their hardware, with only Apple approved earphones being compatible with the iphone, etc... It reminds me of a much more agressive attempt apple made way back with the ipod's headphone jack being slightly deeper (if I remember correctly) effectively making many headphones not function correctly. Maybe back then that was more branding than control - seeing those white earbuds told everyone you owned a ipod and not one of the other brands.
- coldtea 10y ago
  Actually it was just a way to have the jack be thinner -- the usual place a lot of trouble with Apple starts.

ungzd 10y ago

Today I see less and less people outside listening music either using phone or dedicated player. Maybe that's the reason: companies found out that too few people use headphones?

throwanem 10y ago
You couldn't prove it by me; on the train I take to commute, every third person or so has headphones on, and maybe every fifth person on the sidewalk.
Freak_NL 10y ago
From what I have observed (in the Netherlands) a pair of headphones is pretty much standard issue for smombies and commuters. I don't see any signs of that lessening. Where are you from?
- ungzd 10y ago
  Russia. Seems that it's a local trend. 3 years ago lots of people on public transit listened to music and used headphones, now it's extremelly rare. I don't know what's happened.

pizza 10y ago

One thing I've noticed nowadays is that 'AUX cord' is common nomenclature whereas there used to be a time when people would just look at me funny when I said it.

gcb0 10y ago

remember that both nokia and apple already tried that. nokia with custom headset pop ports. and apple with pins changes on the 3,5mm plug that resulted in the plagged state of incompatibility screwing users to this day. thanks apple greed when one 3.5mm headset mic and buttons don't work on one device.

nradov 10y ago

I know switching jack standards is always a hassle, but at least USB is at least a little less prone to foreign object contamination. I tried to watch a movie during a recent flight only to discover that there was a dog treat crumb stuck down in the bottom of my cell phone's 3.5mm audio port so I couldn't insert the headphone plug.

ohitsdom 10y ago
Ah, the classic discovered-dog-treat-in-headphone-jack-while-flying scenario. We've all been there.
HelloNurse 10y ago
Mini-USB, Micro-USB and USB-C sockets are all more than large enough to be filled by sand, lint, crumbs, etc.
- nradov 10y ago
  Sure but in my experience because the ports are shallower its easier to see debris and clean them out just by blowing.

niftich 10y ago

So when the 3.5mm jack is killed, we'll get two USB-C/Lightning ports on our phones, right?

detaro 10y ago
Sounds expensive to manufacture. You sure customers won't buy a $39.95 adapter cable instead? (/s)
moogly 10y ago
Hah. Not when Apple loves dongles.

Wildgoose 10y ago

I've just bought one of the new iPhone SE models specifically because it still has a 3.5mm jack as well as 20% better battery life than the large iPhone 6 models it shares its internals with. Ever larger and thinner simply does not make sense. The whole point of a mobile phone is that they are robust, portable and practicable and both the above trends are acting against those purposes.

analog31 10y ago

As an amusing aside, the big daddy of the 3.5mm jack has been in use for electric guitars (and other amplified musical instruments) for at least 70 years. It's only been within the last decade that the "quarter inch" has been supplanted for connecting speakers, probably due to EU safety regulations.

rplst8 10y ago

I would be remiss if I didn't point out a huge error in this article... > USB-powered headphones will (in theory) run a lot like Bluetooth headphones which have their own DAC/AMP. Your phone passes the raw data through to the headphones and it does the required converting. This can be a great thing. Instead of relying on a poorly-calibrated DAC in the particular phone that you are using, you can instead move that component to a piece of hardware you can control. So if 24-bit uncompressed audio is your thing you can have it with any audio source. While this increases the cost of the headphones it will also produce better quality audio if you are willing to put some money into it, which is a win in my book. In this scenario laid out by the author, audio from your music is passed on to a BT device untouched. This is most certainly NOT the case. Regardless of the format of the source audio, uncompressed (WAV,AUF), lossless compressed (ALAC, FLAC, SHN), or lossy (MP3, AAC, etc.), the data is transcoded and repackaged into the Bluetooth stream. What this means is that lossless audio becomes lossy, and lossy audio gets even more lossy. The author's assertion that if "24-bit uncompressed audio is your thing you can have it..." is pure B.S. You will be at the mercy of whatever link is between your source device (phone) and your listening device (headset/speaker) and what ever hacking of the audio signal it does.

Unklejoe 10y ago
I thought there was a way to pass an MP3 stream directly over Bluetooth without modifying (transcoding) it? I could be wrong.
- rplst8 10y ago
  Maybe there is. I've seen references to the ability to encapsulate a compressed stream directly. That said, support for it varies widely. However, uncompressed 24-bit audio is not gonna happen.
- niftich 10y ago
  This is theoretically possible. However, every discussion I could find indicates that it's most likely not implemented, as it'd require bypassing the final mixer -- and then you wouldn't get the control blips and phone rings over the A2DP link. [1] http://forum.powerampapp.com/index.php?/topic/7586-bit-perfect-streaming-should-be-possible-with-bluetooth-is-it/ http://forum.powerampapp.com/index.php?/topic/7586-bit-perfe... [2] https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,104654.0.html https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,104654.0.html [3] http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/26410/how-do-i-determine-which-a2dp-codecs-my-phone-supports-is-currently-using http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/26410/how-do-i-de... [4] https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6654180 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6654180 [5] http://www.cnet.com/news/can-aptx-give-you-better-sound-over-bluetooth/ http://www.cnet.com/news/can-aptx-give-you-better-sound-over... [6] http://stereos.about.com/od/Wireless/fl/What-You-Might-Not-Know-About-Bluetooth.htm http://stereos.about.com/od/Wireless/fl/What-You-Might-Not-K...

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

Unklejoe 10y ago

I see a lot of comments that say something along the lines of "Apple knows best about what its customers want. The fact that we would prefer to keep the headphone jack doesn't matter because we don't necessarily represent the average customer." However, I think that's giving them too much credit. It's not that Apple "knows what the people actually want", it's that Apple knows how far it can "push" the customers to extract the most amount of money possible. It is a business afterall. Also, they want to lock people into proprietary protocols. The headphone jack isn’t proprietary. Apple probably hates the fact that you can plug a pair of Sony headphones into an iPhone. They know that they have a large enough market share to be able to “drive” things they way they want. As for the other manufacturers ditching the jack as well, they are just following Apple. If Moto was the only company doing this, no one would care. The people who want the jack would simply buy another phone. However, in the case of the iPhone, the barriers of simply switching to another phone are much larger. It's unlikely that someone who wishes they had the headphone jack is going to switch to Android just because of that. They will probably just end up biting the bullet and buying whatever adapter is required by Apple.

howfun 10y ago

Simple fix. Will not be buying such phone.

curiousgal 10y ago

To me, most of the arguments against this move sound as if they have their backs against the wall. Well, you don't, you are not forced to buy it and that will send the message that it's a stupid move. But if we keep moaning about it and purchase the device, it'll be a sign of acceptance. This leads me to another rant, take a look at the iPhone 6s or the Galaxy S7 Active, does a user really need a more powerful device? Especially since the use cases are 75% browsing the web and watching videos.

gwbas1c 10y ago

There's a lot of good that can come from a 100% digital connection between headphones and the player, although I think it's too early to just drop the 3.5mm jack. For example, a set of headphones could equalize itself around flaws in its drivers to have a more accurate playback. Perhaps this kind of thing should be test-marketed first? Maybe keep the 3.5mm jack around until there's some kind of adoption?

Osiris 10y ago

If it's about thinness, why not just go with 2.5mm? Maybe there's a more technical reason like VGA. I recall reading a primary reason to get rid of the VGA connector had to do with it being an analog signal and the extra electronics required to convert the digital to analog, while a digital connection like HDMI and DisplayPort was simpler.

dredmorbius 10y ago

Here's why I want physical ports. If I can plug in my earphones and microphone, I can unplug them. And unplugged, they're dead. No non-wired alternative offers that simple, visually-confirmable affordance. And if you want to kill something on the device, kill the onboard mic.

vincentkriek 10y ago
Wait - you want phone manufacturers to not put a mic on a phone by default? So you'd have to use a BT/plug in headset to call?
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  Yes. As an option. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11841817 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11841817
- ashitlerferad 10y ago
  Yes, makes them less easy for the NSA to turn into a remote bug.

martin-adams 10y ago

Whatever the proposed change is I do hope the following happens: - It is industry standard - I can use an adapter to put my exiting headphones into it and still use those headphones on legacy devices - I can use headphones and charge my device at the same time (i.e. not sharing the same port) - It is sturdy. The Micro USB is too flimsy for me to use for headphones and stuff in my pocket in it's current form.

kevincox 10y ago

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I actually like this. I'm a huge fan at reducing the number of different ports on our devices, and if we can make them the same across phones and computers even better. So this means that I can plug in one USB3 hub and my monitor, speakers, microphone, and external storage are now connected to my computer. That sounds awesome. We are back to docking stations without the propitiatory connectors. However I think that a transition period would be nice. Then again, is anyone going to transition if they aren't forced to?

alkonaut 10y ago

Wouldn't the simple solution be to just replace the 3.5mm analog jack with a 1.5mm analog jack? As long as I have proper analog out I don't mind using an adapter for my old headphones.

nerevarthelame 10y ago

If you want to kill the 3.5mm jack, then the solution is to invest in making Bluetooth headphones less obnoxious to use. Temporarily forcing the world to bungle with USB-C and Lightning adapters, device-specific headphones, and\or poorly developed Bluetooth headphones (which all have relatively short battery lives, obnoxious pairing procedures, etc.) is insane. I wish manufacturers would instead invest in making Bluetooth headphones so nice and functional that people don't want a 3.5mm jack, and then you can kill it mercifully.

Animats 10y ago

If the phone industry is going to go that way, they should go for no connectors at all, wireless charging, and a hermetically sealed unit. Less to go wrong. The battery doesn't need to be replaceable, just better. Use lithium iron phosphate batteries. Those are good for > 2000 charge cycles, instead of the 500 or so for ordinary lithium-ion. You take only a 14% hit in capacity for this. Headphones should be Bluetooth. With WiFi and GSM, who needs a a cable? There's no reason screens should crack before their user does. Check out the Caterpillar B15 phone. You can drop it, pound on it with a hammer, and run over it with a car without damaging it.[1][2] You shouldn't have to fix a phone. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVPku-xItv8 [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xaq3pduPv4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Xaq3pduPv4

sverige 10y ago

If Apple goes this direction, I'm going to be unhappy. The only (literally, only) reason I got an iPhone 6+ was because Google / Android decided they are my mommy and automatically turned down the volume after a short while when I listened to music in my truck. I listen using a 3.5 mm jack since the USB connector on the radio broke from too many cycles of plugging and unplugging. So maybe a few Android phones will retain the 3.5 mm plug and I could use those when this iPhone craps out (battery is already showing its age by cycling faster), but then I'm stuck having to root the phone and do some xda-developer shit to try to overcome the nanny turning down the volume. Obviously that wasn't worth the effort to me, since I bought my first-ever Apple product to get away from that kind of stupidity.

dogma1138 10y ago

The lightning cable is compatible with USB, since it's other data paths are hdmi and a few others I don't think that apple headphones would use something proprietary just connect to the phone via the usb path if so dumb adapters can be used to convert them to usb type c easily and cheaply.

kristianp 10y ago

On a side-note, the DragonFly that is mentioned in a picture is $149 retail! [1] Anyone have a recommendation for a reasonable quality USB DAC/Amp that isn't audiophile price? Also "AMP" isn't an acronym. [1] http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/AQ_PB_US-Retail_15-12-01.pdf http://www.audioquest.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/AQ_PB_U...

princeb 10y ago

if you are the audiophile kind, then you may already have an portable dac/amp that you use with your phone, or have attached to your pc through spdif/usb that then goes into your headphones, bypassing the onboard dac/amp. what will happen is that some headphone manufacturers will start selling headphones with internal dac/amps. there are plenty of pc-oriented headphones that have that, and the gaming oriented ones even have onboard audio processing for surround emulation, like dolby atmos or dolby headphones kind of technology. but what will also happen is that most performance headphone manufacturers will continue making whatever they were making before because a lot of audio equipment out there still rely on the (1/4") phone connectors, and don't need to have dac/amps built into the headphones because the equipment should have their own already. if consumers don't care, they'll just continue using the earphones that comes with the iphone, which will likely work out of the box, or they may buy something else off the rack (like beats which will almost surely make headphones that are compatible with the new iphone) that comes with better speakers. if consumers do care, then they'll get to put whatever dac/amp they love in between their iphone and their headphones. but there are some consumers that care enough about good headphones but not enough about good dac/amps (because honestly most smartphone dacs are already pretty good on their own), who will have an existing pair of headphones they like very much but will need to fork out a little bit more for a dac/amp they don't have. hopefully with apple forcing this arrangement, dac/amps become less of a hobby purchase and we'll see some mass market $10 portable dac/amps hit the stores.

coroutines 10y ago

I am thinking..: - Intel is working on adding analog audio over some unused pins on USB 3.1 (sfaik) - Even if USB gets analog audio we will probably see the DAC+amp in computers and phones go away so they have more room for a battery - With USB 3.1 headphones there would be a DAC+amp in/on the headphones - With a DAC+amp on the headphones we could select to use the host computers' DAC+amp or the headphones' DAC+amp. Choice between quality or battery life? - DRM sucks dicks - but there will always be a way to get between the DAC and the speaker for recording. Let's just limit consumer choice, amirite? - Phones and laptops are all going USB, but there aren't nearly enough ports - I thought we killed fucking docks in the 90s. They're BACK?!?! - USB and keyboard-cases became so expensive when tablets became popular... docks for more ports and audio will similarly be $100 and above. - We might see the DAC+amp become another accessory to interchange between the digital audio source and the speakers. Another $100 device for enthusiasts. - Lightning seems way better than USB type-c (physically better), but no way am I buying it just to be in the Apple crowd. - Cash grab or DRM blitz? or both?

notatoad 10y ago
>Intel is working on adding analog audio over some unused pins on USB 3.1. This was some bad reporting by one of the tech blogs last week - Intel was talking this up at IDF in 2014 and the author of this article didn't fact check it (and admitted his mistake on the Reddit discussion of this article). Audio adapter mode has been part of the usb type-c connector spec since its conception. Passing analog audio out over a couple pins is part of the spec, and not in any way experimental or undefined.
- coroutines 10y ago
  I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly - it should already be supported by the spec, but was misreported on by this other tech blog?

Hondor 10y ago

Whenever I see these negative responses to eliminating legacy technology, I think "would you prefer to wind the clock back and add any obsolete things?" Is there any now-gone port that phones/computers should reinstate or is this the very first one that ever appeared in history and our current situation is the final state of perfection? The inconvenience and cost of changing over is usually less than the extra value gained from the progress in the long term. The difficulty is persuading people choosing to initiate the changeover. It'll only happen with industry leading phone makers forcing it on us. After a couple of years we'll all settle down into the new way and people will stop complaining because everything will be easier.

jayd16 10y ago
The counter point to this is that not every step is a step forward. I'd be far more willing to accept this kind of change if it wasn't so obviously going to split the market into iOS, Android, and every thing else type headphones.
- Hondor 10y ago
  If Apple goes to USB-C then it'll do the opposite of split the market. Of course it'll be a massive step back if it spawns lightning versions of headphones on top of 3.5mm and USB-C. But that's not a sure thing. What is a sure thing is the current suboptimal state of having two kinds of plug when only one is really needed.