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E Ink announces a full color electrophoretic ePaper display
- mark-r 10y agoThey don't say how many bits per pixel they achieve. I suspect it's quite small, maybe as low as 3 - the sample image shows some posterization. With high resolution and dithering it should be sufficient for the intended use case of signage.
- grenoire 10y ago'Including eight primary colours' probably means 3bpp indeed. However, 1600x2500 at 150 ppi is indeed enough to make it practically seamless with dithering; especially on E Ink displays. I can hardly make the individual pixels on my 1920x1090 phone, so I expect a higher resolution to achieve a good effect regardless of the bpp.
- delecti 10y agoCurrent e-ink screens are 16 "colors" (grayscale shades) per pixel. Why do you suspect this has one fewer bit per pixel than that?
- mark-r 10y agoBecause the only concrete claim they make is that the primary colors are included. At least in this article; I see that someone has responded with another that has more information.
- krasin 10y agoEngadget ([1]) tells us: ...developed a display that can show up to 32,000 colors. [1] http://www.engadget.com/2016/05/24/e-ink-announces-a-color-breakthrough-but-its-only-for-signs/ http://www.engadget.com/2016/05/24/e-ink-announces-a-color-b...
- imaginenore 10y agoSo since they have 8 pigments, it's 5 bits then. 8^5 = 32768 That explains the posterization.
- Palomides 10y agoThey say low power, but also a fluid, is this tech going to be capable of the /no/ power display b/w eink does? That has always been one of the most interesting aspects of it to me.
- robert_foss 10y agoThe article mentioned the displays being reflective, so that would likely mean that they're making low/no power devices.
- greensoap 10y agoI think the question is whether the image can maintain when the power is off. While it won't require illumination power, it may still require power to keep the material in the configuration that allows for proper imaging.
- colordrops 10y agoSome LCDs are reflective and they still draw power. Being reflective is orthogonal to to the amount of power being used. The question here is whether an active current is necessary to keep the fluid in position, or if it will maintain its image with zero power.
- cgriswald 10y agoThese are electrophoretic displays just like you might have in your Amazon Kindle. So yes. Color isn't the interesting thing here. It's that each pixel is capable of all the colors of the device (versus an RGB-type system).
- msbarnett 10y agoThe fluid + microcapsule or microcup structure is fundamentally the same way eInk already worked, so this wouldn't change anything wrt power and display persistence.
- iMark 10y agoWow, I had no idea e-ink had come so far. Has the latency improved any?
- breck 10y agoYes, though I couldn't find good numbers with some quick searching. If anyone finds a good source please share. FWIW, my new Kindle Voyage seems to turn pages about 10x faster than my second generation Kindle.
- notatoad 10y agoThe page refresh speed has definitely increased on kindles, but the Amazon press releases always seem to attribute that to better processors rather than better panels.
- igravious 10y agoI still find the latency just that bit to much on my Kindle PaperWhite. Love the tones, texture, and battery but the latency is just a killer for me. I guess I'm too impatient.
- djrogers 10y agoMy Kindle paperwhite can change pages a bit faster than I could turn them, plus it's lit so I can read at night without a light over my shoulder. That said, I'm eagerly awaiting my oasis!
- iMark 10y agoKindles are still B&W - I'm curious about the colour displays.
- JBReefer 10y agoI'm excited for what it will do to textbooks
- breck 10y agoDoes anyone have a link to a good behind the scenes history of E Ink? I've loved following them over the years. They were one of the first "startups" I read about (in the Boston Globe) as a kid growing up outside Boston in the 90's. It seems like it's been an incredible uphill battle to make the tech work. I love my Kindle screen and do hope that someday passive color screens can rival light emitting ones.
- my_username_is_ 10y agoI think I remember that article (or at least a similar one)! I can't seem to find it on the Globe's site, though.
- Animats 10y agoIt was way oversold at first. It was going to be really cheap, and flexible, like a sheet of paper. It ended up being a front layer on an LCD-like device. Early versions were dark grey on light grey, like cheap newsprint. The contrast has been improving, but it's still not as good as printed paper. Other than E-readers, the big application has been retail price signs.[1] With a passive display, they can be battery powered and have a long battery life. They only need to wake up and rewrite when the price changes. (Most of the ads for these displays show something like "30% off!") [1] http://www.pervasivedisplays.com/ http://www.pervasivedisplays.com/
- ArtDev 10y agoThe Kindle PaperWhite and Newest Kobo readers both sport 300dpi resolution. My new reader is like reading on a something that came through a printer. Its amazing!
- Animats 10y agoNice! They finally fixed that.
- Turing_Machine 10y ago
- dilippkumar 10y agoDoes anyone know what frame rates and power numbers this can achieve?
- antome 10y agoFrom personal experience, black and white epaper can run at ~20-30hz if you turn off the page refresh system. This usually dramatically cuts down on bit depth and dramatically increases ghosting, however. With page refresh on, you can expect ~5hz with some nice strobing inbetween.
- phonon 10y agoIt takes a few seconds for the screen to change for the color display. http://the-digital-reader.com/2016/05/24/up-close-with-e-inks-new-high-resolution-color-epaper-displays/ http://the-digital-reader.com/2016/05/24/up-close-with-e-ink... (Watch the video--the flickering are the colors changing.)
- makomk 10y agoThis is a neat trick: "The richness of the colors is achieved by having all the colored pigments in every picture element (pixel) rather than the side-by-side pixel colors achieved with a CFA. This eliminates the light attenuation, which can be quite significant." I believe this is why non-backlit colour LCDs don't work so well - too much light attenuation from the fact that the colours are side-by-side and so only let a third of the light through the colour filters.
- gregschlom 10y agoAny idea how they manage to control which pigments are shown? In traditional B&W E-Ink, black pigments are negatively charged, while white pigments are positively charged, so it's fairly straightforward to control which ones to show. I wonder how they do it for color, since they would need presumably 3 or 4 primary colors
- stonogo 10y agoIt's easy, in our digital world, to forget: electric charge is not binary. A gamut of pigments that responded to a range of charges would serve.
- imaginenore 10y agoThat doesn't answer his question though. Let's say they have 4 types of particles: CMYK. If the charges are as follows: C > M > Y > K, you will always have C arrive to the front first. How do you make only Y go the front to display pure yellow?
- daurnimator 10y agoIf it's like the video linked above (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2V9iuTW3sA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2V9iuTW3sA) it doesn't go straight from Y to C; the "pixel" has to cycle through all the other colours in between.
- a_sriram 10y agoThis is so cool. I had always imagined these to replace my monitors. Looks like its on its way soon.
- monk_e_boy 10y agoRefresh will be way too slow... unless you are doing something unusual with your pc.
- tekklloneer 10y agoIt's fast enough for IRC and manpages. Way more than fast enough, in fact.
- msbarnett 10y agoFor reading either, perhaps. But the refresh rate is waaaay too slow for it to be comfortable for you to type on for interacting with IRC. Just invoking man would be painful enough.
- tekklloneer 10y agoIt's plenty comfortable on my kindle touch - it doesnt do fullscreen redraws, so generally if youre comfortable with a tiny bit of typing lag it's fine.
- LeifCarrotson 10y agoIf you don't mind line-by-line or paginated scrolling, it will be fine for most applications. Not video or gaming, of course, but software development, web browsing, email, word processing, and spreadsheet editing are by no means unusual use cases.
- jonknee 10y agoSoftware development and web browsing seem like they would be a bear (depending on the software you're developing I guess, anything with a GUI would be tough). A touch based OS would be a must, cursors would be way too laggy. It would make a dandy comic book reader though!
- Havoc 10y agoWhat are the practical applications of this in the near term though? Can't really think of any. Signboards would be good but I doubt the scale/price/size works out well (for now). ereaders don't really need colour IMO though it would obviously be a benefit.
- ralusek 10y agoE-Readers don't NEED color, but neither does your phone. Color is fun.
- dangero 10y agoColor also conveys information more efficiently per pixel than black and white.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- jsjohnst 10y agoHave you ever read a photography book? How about a cookbook? Or anything else with color photos? There are more books in the world than those with just black text. :)
- bbddg 10y agoI've always wanted an e-reader that could do comics in full color. Kinda niche I guess.
- pluma 10y agoSmartwatches? The Pebble has been using e-paper from day one and Pebble Time introduced color support. I'm not sure whether the Pebble 2 & Pebble Time 2 currently on Kickstarter have improved on that further but the Pebble Time's 64 color display can be a bit meh depending on the lighting conditions (at least to me the backlight always seems a bit too blue outside of daylight, tinting the colours too much).
- djrogers 10y ago
- georgewsinger 10y agoUse cases?
- vezycash 10y agocolored ebook reader, low powered electronic bill boards, camouflage armored tanks, and planes, smart phones, smart watches e.g. Pebble, store signs, laptop, monitor, tablet... Basically, anything you can do with a LCD. This however uses way less power.
- jagermo 10y agoI saw a few prototypes of Mirasol-based displays [1] over the year. So amazing, however they never got a broad adaption. I still would love to have a comic reader with Mirasol. [1] https://www.qualcomm.com/products/mirasol https://www.qualcomm.com/products/mirasol
- soggypenny 10y agoThat's probably because Apple bought up Mirasol. http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/12/15/apple-has-taken-over-qualcomms-imod-mirasol-display-lab-in-taiwan http://appleinsider.com/articles/15/12/15/apple-has-taken-ov...
- jessriedel 10y agoThis will be perfect for electronic picture frames. I've given such devices to family before, but their significant drawback is that they are backlit, so they are much more distracting than normal print photographs and can't be put in a bedroom or anywhere else that needs to be dark. But a electronic picture frame with color e-ink would be an ideal use: Low power, no illumination, and no need for fast updating.
- boyter 10y agoI have always wanted a large one (24" or more) to display whatever painting I find interesting on that day. I went looking several months ago without any luck. These look like they would be perfect for my use case. I find the idea of having whatever art piece I want on the wall very appealing.
- pen2l 10y agoFunny that this is what you guys wanted it for. I swear, I have been wanting this SO BAD for so long for my monitor. LCDs are bright and make my eyes hurt. I want this for my monitor.
- jonknee 10y agoThe latency would make it tough for anything other than word processing (and even that would be a bit annoying).
- pen2l 10y agoYep that's true. But I will put up with that -- the "good" of it being easy on the eyes trumps the "bad" of latency issues. Though, let's hope the technology matures and this problem is solved to some extent.
- FreeFull 10y agoI've seen demonstrations of eink displays showing 60fps video without any noticeable latency. I think the latency is purely dependent on the voltages used to drive the display. Edit: This was with a black and white display. Depending on how the colour displays work, avoiding latency might not be possible as easily.
- auvi 10y agodoes anybody know on which patent this technology is based?
- arfar 10y agoA combination of any of these 1500 https://patents.google.com/?assignee=E-Ink+Corporation&sort=new This is the first one that comes up mentioning "color": https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160116816A1
- kepano 10y agoI can't wait for the refresh rate to catch up with other display technologies. Imagine seeing a movie in subtractive color, it would be like watching a moving painting.
- distances 10y agoE-ink wall with high refresh rate at home. That would be awesome for daytime movies!
- MiloLiu 10y agoReally like it.
- wwweston 10y agoDid anyone see a link to where/how to order a kit?
- dragonmum 10y agoThis is from SID 2016. SID is the equivalent of SIGGRAPH for display technology companies. So it would typically be 12 - 18 months from the time a technology is demonstrated at SID to the point that it becomes available as a development kit. For example, last year E-Ink demoed their 42" panels, and they're now available as development kits, albeit at USD$6k per panel+kit! So not exactly raspberry pi kind of pricing.
- dragonmum 10y agoSlashgear posted a video of the actual color e-ink panels in operation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2V9iuTW3sA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2V9iuTW3sA
- andrewstuart2 10y agoI love that I couldn't even tell the far left panel was e-ink until it changed later in the video.
- dragonmum 10y agoThey were showing some kind of multi window demo. The 3 panels would show independent images and then synchronize and show a single large image split across the 3 panels. Cool stuff but I couldn't find video of that online.
- MBCook 10y agoIt's unfortunate that it seems like the eInk flashing problem seems so much worse than on monochrome displays. Once the image fully appears it looks great.
- ori_b 10y agoI wonder if it's fast enough that they could do it line by line. It would be slower, but it might look better having the picture cut over fully, instead of flashing the entire screen over and over.
- dhimes 10y agoOr just have a layer over it that goes opaque for a moment until the pic below develops. Would be weird, but way less annoying.
- mark-r 10y agoInteresting pattern of flashing as the picture changes. That probably provides big hints on how it operates internally.
- randomsearch 10y agoMagazines and newspapers. Just in case it wasn't obvious why this will type of tech will be huge. Also - IoT displays. Hell, in the long term, _all material that is graphically designed and may need to change. Advertising, signs, dashboards, frickin' everything.
- make3 10y agoI don't know about Magazines and newspapers, that feels like it might be underestimating the price for quite a bit, for quite a while. For much longer battery life on tablets / phones / ireaders however, this could be huge.
- Swannie 10y agoA car covered in these panels will exist. Probably self driving :)
- Cthulhu_ 10y agoNewspapers would already be possible, especially if e-ink displays were made in A4 or maybe even larger sizes. Newspaper companies would have to heavily back them though (free e-reader with a yearly subscription to the digital newspaper for example)
- swalsh 10y agoMagazines and newspapers are here today... it's called a kindle, or an ipad, or an iphone. This doesn't change that game. It also still has the same limitation of it's black and white brother. While the ink part scales, the electronics behind it don't. Don't get me wrong, I think color makes this a much better value proposition... but I don't think our world is going to be wrapped in it anytime soon.
- jkestner 10y agoThe ink part doesn't scale either — try pricing larger sizes. This is the failed promise, that they'd be able to just manufacture sheets of the stuff cheaply.
- randomsearch 10y ago
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- milesf 10y agoLet me know when I can 'wallpaper' my house with it. I hate painting rooms just to change the colour.
- partiallypro 10y agoKindles where you can read comics, this is something I've wanted for a while.
- bronz 10y agoits always refreshing to see incremental improvements in technology unfolding before me.
- mrmondo 10y agoThis is great news, awesome for textbooks etc... I've been waiting for this for so long as e-ink Triton has been way too expensive and low resolution.
- pmlnr 10y ago> ACeP achieves a full color gamut Which gamut?
- Gabriel-Lewis 10y agoI can't wait to see this in Kindles and Innovative ideas like popSLATE http://popslate.com http://popslate.com
- Shorel 10y agoComics. This is for comics. Marvel should partner with them.
- distances 10y agoOr Disney. Would be nice to revisit the classical Carl Barks and Don Rosa stories from my childhood. Though I'm not sure if Disney still owns the stories or is somehow licensing the characters for independent publishers.
- frik 10y agoE Ink had already color and support for (small area) motion videos support E Ink displays in 2009. At that time I got a Kindle 3 and there were hopes that the next Kindle would get such an improved screen. Sadly, Amazon ditched the bigger Kindle entirely and introduced Kindle Fire based on IPS display. One day I would like a non-backlight color e-ink display ebook reader. And large screen (non-backlight/optional-backlight) e-ink displays would be great for various purposes like electronic wall painting that refresh once a day, info screens, third monitor (eg reading ebooks on PC on a special eye-friendly third monitor), etc
- ajuc 10y agoCan we have a laptop with transparent LCD in front of a color e-Ink? So that when stuff happens quickly LCD shows it, but when nothing happens for some time - LCD turns transparent (maybe even just for the region of screen that is static) and ePaper keeps showing it. I'm thinking mostly static IDE with small debug window scrolling all the time. Wonder if energy savings are worth it, but it could maybe be done just to make it easier on the eyes.
- yoz-y 10y agoMy dream screen would have an OLED display behind an e-ink screen or something similar. So you can choose whether you want each pixel to be reflexive or lit-up. This would make for amazing experience. Of course both would have to be able to run at at least 60Hz.
- arviewer 10y agoNow we need good e-readers which can process PDF properly and fast. An iPad with this screen would be a great alternative if video is not important. But it probably will be Android that's going to drive these screens.
- Marazan 10y agoI'm still waiting for the economically priced A4 black and white e-reader for reading research papers on.
- arviewer 10y agoHopefully this will make your dream come through. I hope for an e-reader that has lots more CPU power, which will process PDF fast and properly.
- RottenHuman 10y agoHave you tried using your E Reader as a VNC client? I did that with my Kobo to use my Laptop in daylight and it worked quite well.
- aedron 10y agoYou and me both. Luckily my Kindle DX still has some fight left in it, but I will miss it when it finally kicks.
- bres 10y agoYour comment just made me realise how much I want such device. An A4, 300-ppi ereader would be godsent.
- drited 10y agoThis 13.3 inch device which is 300ppi and runs on Android is in pre-release, expected to ship in volume within a month or so. http://www.amazon.com/Onyx-13-3-Android-Flexible-Handwriting/dp/B01EVACVHY http://www.amazon.com/Onyx-13-3-Android-Flexible-Handwriting...
- creshal 10y agoAndroid 4.0, obsolete and out of any form of support since late 2012. I hope you don't plan to connect this to the internet.
- RubyPinch 10y agoNice news, but I doubt this'll be any easier for hobbyists to acquire without harvesting them from devices
- distances 10y agoSo the black and white e-ink screens are not currently being sold separately?
- RubyPinch 10y agothey are, but like, they are usually ultra tiny (smaller than a business card), or prohibitively expensive. The best way of getting screens is to hop on ebay, and get a replacement screen, then reverse engineer the connecter they use
- Zelmor 10y agoThis will be huge in adverts on the streets, if UV does not degrade the display. Electricity costs cut thousandfold.
- wowtip 10y agoWith good latency combined with pressure sensitive display this would be exceptional for artists and just for everyday taking notes.
- kasikp 10y agoWeird that the official E Ink Corporation website has no mention of this.
- dahjelle 10y agoI'd love to have an e-ink monitor someday. I wouldn't need video-speed refresh (probably?) or even color, but programming without staring into a flashlight all day sounds really nice. My monitor's brightness is already set at 4%.
- romaniv 10y agoAlso, it would be cool not to have a "power saving" mode engaging and disengaging, taking time.
- robin_reala 10y agoThey do exist, although at high prices and small sizes: http://www.dasung.com.cn/ http://www.dasung.com.cn/
- mabbo 10y ago> I wouldn't need video-speed refresh (probably?) My biggest barrier here would be the mouse. My mouse is an extension of my hand. Imagine how hard it would be to manipulate objects in real life if you had a half a second delay on what you felt and saw your hand do? Similarly, you'd better be very accurate at typing- you won't notice a typo until half a second later, by which time you've written 5 or 10 more characters. You could go back and fix each one later, but again, with the slow refresh the need for accuracy in knowing where you're typing now would be problematic. That said, I'm still excited. This tech is so lovely (I joined Amazon in part because I love my Kindle).
- creshal 10y ago> My biggest barrier here would be the mouse. My mouse is an extension of my hand. Imagine how hard it would be to manipulate objects in real life if you had a half a second delay on what you felt and saw your hand do? To test, connect to a remote site with 1Mbit uplink via RDP or VNC. It tends to drive you stark raving mad after an hour or so.
- dahjelle 10y agoGood points! It's hard for me to imagine what it would be like as I've not used my Kindle with that in mind—and, of course, the Kindle UI is adapted (at least somewhat) for e-ink limitations.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 10y agoBut, I just want a black and white Eink monitor.
- shmerl 10y agoSounds promising. Are there any hackable e-book readers which use E Ink by the way? I.e. where you can install Linux for example?