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The amount of roadblocks Google is putting up for GrapheneOS is just ridiculous. None of their decisions make any sense, from the delayed source patches upstrea
by wps 13d ago
The amount of roadblocks Google is putting up for GrapheneOS is just ridiculous. None of their decisions make any sense, from the delayed source patches upstream, to the embargos, attestation issues, etc. Google simply regrets android being open source.
- monomania 13d agoThere's a non-zero chance that three-letter agencies are lobbying for at least some of this.
- jasonfarnon 13d agoYeah. Which doesn't mean Google isn't happy to comply for its own profit motivations.
- bebeirjd848r 13d agoGrapheneOS does not even register on Google scale! It does not even manufacture its own devices! Bigger problem is HarmonyOS and similar devices, compatible with Android. Opensource threat from china! And no NSA backdoors or honeypots!
- subscribed 13d agoIf the hardware security is on par with iPhone / pixel 8+, then sure. Otherwise there's no need for NSA backdoors (as Cellebrite matrix shows) :)
- ChickeNES 13d agoSure, let's just trade the NSA for the CCP, no issues there.
- anonym29 13d agoOne poses an active, unchecked threat to the constitutional rights of US citizens, has a chartered mission to subvert and undermine the very field of cryptography itself - going so far as to bribe standards bodies to adopt backdoored algorithms (using taxpayer funds to do so), has plotted to mass-violate the constitutional rights of their own citizens and lie about it to the national legislature (which they carried out successfully, committing perjury in the process and facing zero consequences for it), secretly cooperates with the criminal justice system via parallel construction to target nonviolent, law-abiding political activists with fabricated criminal charges as retaliation for politically disfavored speech, while the other is about 6500 miles away, has negligible presence in / reach into the US, and is generally unconcerned with the domestic political activities of US citizens.
- ChickeNES 13d ago> has negligible presence in / reach into the US, and is generally unconcerned with the domestic political activities of US citizens. lmao
- 075326899532 13d ago+ 3 social credits, comrade
- Cider9986 13d agoI agree–it's absurd to be more concerned about spying of China on American citizens than the spying of our own government. While allies of the US are problematic because of however many eyes. Not particularly relevant but the lawful spying implemented in the telecommunications system by our own government has been abused by Chinese hackers as well.
- mitxela 13d agoGrapheneOS does, however, register on the FBI's radar because a lot of criminals know to use it, and the FBI can't crack it.
- 7734128 13d agoIt's not a regret. Android would never have been popular in the first place if it had not been open source. If phone makers had been able to anticipate how much the demons at Google would be able to lock down the Android then they would never had used the OS back in ~2009.
- mrpippy 13d agoThat’s possible (never underestimate the bad decision-making of phone makers), but what would they have done instead? Windows Mobile 6 was the only licensable alternative, but it was a known quantity and obviously a generation behind Android and iOS.
- pmlnr 13d agoMaemo.
- michaelmior 13d agoI remember using a Maemo device circa 2009. I recall overall really liking the OS.
- thomasahle 13d agoAlso Bada
- SoftTalker 13d agoWindows Phone was pretty nice, too bad Microsoft didn't follow their DOS and Windows strategy of getting it preinstalled on every consumer PC sold. There was really only the Nokia Lumia line that I recall, but everyone I knew who had one loved it.
- deleted 13d ago[deleted]
- dpark 13d agoWindows Phone 7 didn’t ship until 2 years after Android. 2 more years later Windows Phone 8 was released and it was a legitimate option but just too late. Pre-7 was just not an operating system that anyone except the geekiest of geeks wanted to use.
- Retr0id 13d agoGoogle is also seriously dropping the ball in terms of security. The CVE-2026-43499 root LPE (aka ghostlock) is still unpatched across all Pixel devices, on the latest """security""" update, despite weaponized exploits being public for months.
- deleted 13d ago[deleted]
- jeroenhd 13d agoI just ran https://github.com/CakesTwix/Android-CVE-2026-43499 https://github.com/CakesTwix/Android-CVE-2026-43499 on my Pixel 9 Pro and it seems to have been patched. I did get a system update not long ago, though.
- Retr0id 13d agoTry https://github.com/alex193a/Root-My-Pixel https://github.com/alex193a/Root-My-Pixel, worked on my 9a as of a few days ago (the version table in the readme is stale). I haven't checked the September update yet though (installing it now, to check). Edit: September update for 8a has a kernel build from July. I believe it's still vulnerable but the exploit will need its offsets adjusting etc.
- lenerdenator 13d agoThere's "dropping the ball" and then there's "not reaching out your glove to catch it to begin with". It'd be interesting to see which one is happening here.
- grapheneos 13d agoPixels used to have far better updates than any other Android devices but they stopped improving it years ago. It should have kept improving because it's not at all adequate. They need to be able to release OS updates more than once per month and it shouldn't take months for patches to make it into the OS. It currently takes them at least around 2 months to get even the most urgent patches into the OS. They could fix emergency calls being broken if the patch was made around 3 weeks before an OS release, but that's about as quick as they can go. It's not at all adequate for security and is a complete joke compared to Chromium's release cycle. They can get an emergency Chrome update released within a couple days. They should at least be able to do it for the Pixel OS in a week. GrapheneOS is often around 4 to 6 months ahead on merging Linux kernel LTS releases. We used to handle this ourselves but switched to the Android GKI LTS branch maintained by Greg KH. Unfortunately, it was often struggling to keep up even before the absolutely massive increase in Linux kernel security patches this year. AI models have rapidly accelerated vulnerability discovery and it's an ongoing crisis for the Linux kernel. We want to be on the latest LTS revision within days and want to be using the latest LTS branch within months of it being released. We're not at all happy with how Android is handling things and plan to fix that ourselves. We'll get things back to how they should be. We also ship all the AOSP userspace patches months before Pixels due to shipping all of the security preview patches as soon as possible. There are sometimes minor regressions but we find and fix them ourselves downstream. The security preview system has a terrible design especially considering that frontier AI models can reverse engineer the patches. There should at least only be a source embargo for around 24 to 72 hours rather than pretending as if it can work with the patches available 2 to 6 months in advance.
- jeroenhd 13d agoThe thread states that Google is putting out patches that affect other Android vendors too. They're not treating GrapheneOS very differently from other vendors, except that Graphene isn't relevant enough to sign a contract with because they don't make phones (or money, really). Google should be putting out the code and patches like they used to, but the constant badgering of Google on this issue feels off. I don't see anyone complaining that Samsung isn't supporting their security-focused fork enough, or complain that Apple is delaying the bootloader unlock process by a day. Despite their very worst, selfish intentions, Google is the very best vendor of commercial open source software. While Google's open source project collapses, there's plenty of space for other vendors to step in. We should bemoan Google's fall from grace, but only because they're on the way to becoming just as bad as every vendor but Librem if they keep this up another decade.
- microtonal 12d agoLibrem seems as bad as a typical Android OEM. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong repository, but the barely seem to update driver firmware? https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/fw/firmware-librem5-nonfree https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/fw/firmware-librem5-nonfree https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/arm-trusted-firmware https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/arm-trusted-firmware I hope I'm looking in the wrong place.
- fsflover 11d agoPurism don't really control the firmware of their modem and WiFi: the vendors do. However, Librem 5 has replaceable modem and WiFi card allowing to choose a different vendor. They did it for WiFi. A new modem is also being discussed, too.
- alightsoul 13d agoIt's a net loss. Less data and in their view makes development harder.
- curiousgal 13d ago> Google Can we just stop saying "Google" as if it's same faceless org? No, it's not Google, one or two asshole execs are behind this policy.
- SahAssar 13d agoThe org takes responsibility. If you want to additionally name & blame an exec feel free.
- godelski 13d agoI hope people remember this when advocating for chromium. Just because it is open source doesn't mean they don't control it. We need to start the long process of hard forking now or turn to alternatives like Firefox as a new foundation. > Google simply regrets android being open source. Android wouldn't be what it is if it wasn't open source. With all the work from outside Google. The same is true chrome. But they won't learn that on their own. They are breaking the deals. So we move. We force their hand
- suprjami 13d ago> or turn to alternatives like Firefox Implying I ever left Firefox in the first place.
- simondotau 12d agoI’m a web developer and I have never dailied Chrome or a Chromium descendant. Firefox for daily, Safari for the occasional cross-check.
- nomel 13d ago> So we move. We force their hand What do you have in mind?
- PaulCarrack 13d ago> We need to start the long process of hard forking now or turn to alternatives like Firefox as a new foundation.
- sieabahlpark 13d ago[dead]
- luqtas 13d agooh yes sure. just like we can shift the population into installing Debian into their machines so we also deter M$ and Apple abuse /s
- dimaaan 13d agoAnd don't forget about Manifest V2/uBlock Origin removal!
- deleted 13d ago[deleted]
- yndoendo 13d agoIt makes perfect sense when you apply the Friedman doctrine to their actions. [0] Google is a lawn mower, stop anthropologizing them. This goes the same with Apple, Microsoft, Meta, Amazon, ... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine
- surcap526 13d ago[dead]
- bossyTeacher 13d ago> None of their decisions make any sense, Of course, it does. Google is no longer afraid to spit on open source. People happy to use Chromium features better remember this. You are renting everything and your landlord will soon come demanding it back.
- rkagerer 13d agoYeah I have trouble accepting it's pure coincidence this occurs just as GrapheneOS is starting to gain some noticeable traction.
- NetMageSCW 12d agoLOL at “noticeable traction”.
- karlgkk 13d ago> None of their decisions make any sense It only doesn’t make sense if you’re assuming conspiracy. It makes a lot more sense if you assume they just don’t give a shit.
- mitxela 13d agoWhen you realize that keeping people on proprietary mobile OSes is a matter of national security it makes more sense. The USA spares no expense for national security.
- _blk 13d agoIt's not that it doesn't make sense, you just said it, they regret - well maybe not regret since they'd never made it without, but they now want to reverse a decision they feel needs to be overhauled. I always thought they'll replace Linux with Fuchsia but that hasn't happened and it's not like they couldn't have done it.
- Telaneo 13d agoI'm convinced Android being open source is just an accident of history. It's been somewhat useful for Google to be able to ride on that goodwill, but they're not actually invested in open source beyond the ways it directly benefits them (or at least they haven't been in the last 10 years). Thus they're happy to throw the baby out with the bathwater if they believe they need the bathtub for anything that will earn them 0.1 cent more than that baby would.
- Ritewut 13d agoIt's like PC parts being modular. IBMs greatest mistake and the industry wants to make sure it never happens again.
- NetMageSCW 12d agoWhen IBM tried that with PS/2 it didn’t go so well.
- layer8 12d agoApple seems to be having more success.
- ikiris 12d agoIts more a reflection of the vastly different internal culture of the time (and different executive leadership). When Patrick Pichette left and Sundar became CEO both led to massive culture shifts.
- taneq 13d agoIf someone’s (or some company’s) decisions don’t make sense to you, you don’t understand their motivations.
- surajrmal 13d agoThere was a split world for a long time even before the more recent changes because of the need to hide secret new features or products from the general public. It was always a tricky arrangement. They just decided one day that there wasn't a lot of folks contributing that lacked access to the private repos, so they might as well just switch all development to occur in that place. Honestly, it's somewhat rationale. If there was a significant number of folks contributing to Android without such access I'm sure that wouldn't have happened. We didn't lose as much as folks think we did given the code drops from the private repos still happened even previously.
- varenc 12d ago> Google simply regrets android being open source. Could Google backtrack on this if they wanted? If they suddenly decided to stop releasing public code updates, what would they be violating? I can guess: Anti-trust maybe. probable at least contractual commitments Or is there some stronger forcing function?
- binkHN 12d agoThey want to be like Apple here and lock things down. Remember SMS? The ubiquitous text messaging protocol that had an API that developers could access? Now, the latest standard, RCS, is locked down with no API and behaves just like iMessage. Ring any bells?
- sporkland 12d agoAs an outsider in a hyper competitive commercial space like mobile os (apple, android) which part makes you think it's active obstruction and not just moving fast and trying to keep up, get ahead, etc and they want the open source side but it's a lower priority?
- fh973 12d agoPlease remind us which exciting features Android graced us with in the last say 3 years?
- deleted 12d ago[deleted]
- hollerith 12d agoThe developers at Google who are good at Android development have been busy adapting Android to be the OS for its upcoming Googlebook laptops. Consequently, Android for smartphones has probably been ignored.
- zx8080 12d ago> None of their decisions make any sense .. What? Google is advertisement business. Not a software house. They sell ads. It all makes sense to build a walled garden. They are effectively a monopoly for half of the personal devices _in the world_. And they _will_ return their investments into the opensource. By locking Android and Chrome and showing ads to everyone. Like the old days shitty TV, full of ads.
- zx8080 12d ago> Google simply regrets android being open source. No, they are benefitting from it! They gained some trust and removed competition from the horizon. Now they are locking the platform down to do what their business is about: displaying ads.
- mrbluecoat 12d ago> Pixels are now significantly harder to support than many other devices. ... It will be far easier for us to support upcoming Motorola devices than Pixels. The Motorola transition can't come soon enough, IMHO
- illiac786 12d agoWell, based on your last sentence these decisions very much make sense. But I agree with the other comments out there. It will get ugly and they will loose. I am convinced there many heavy weights just waiting for the right time to hit google hard on this. While I don’t know all of them and don’t like the ones I think I know, I will sing and dance when it’ll happen. And no, Apple is no better.
- deleted 12d ago[deleted]