5 ms·

Xcode 27.1 Beta Release Notes

153 points by CameronBanga 16d ago

CameronBanga 16d ago
Now available for testing apps on the iPhone Duo! Here are some screenshots from getting my own app compiled, if anyone is interested: https://bsky.app/profile/cameronbanga.com/post/3mvsrxk5q7b2j https://bsky.app/profile/cameronbanga.com/post/3mvsrxk5q7b2j https://bsky.app/profile/cameronbanga.com/post/3mvss5wmxej2l https://bsky.app/profile/cameronbanga.com/post/3mvss5wmxej2l
khoury 16d ago
I'm just gonna ignore this thing and continue as if it never existed. Worked with Vision Pro that no body uses and will work with this.
- yieldcrv 16d ago
  taking the Apple strategy with the Apple ecosystem, genius
- devin 16d ago
  I'm not fangirling over it, but comparing it to Vision Pro is ridiculous.
  - matsemann 16d ago
    But will you gain anything by building for it? Will you see noticeably more users or people choosing another alternative because you didn't specifically building the app for Duo? At least if it doesn't outright break.
    - reaperducer 16d ago
      But will you gain anything by building for it? Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Will you see noticeably more users or people choosing another alternative because you didn't specifically building the app for Duo? I haven't done iOS development in a long time, but my understanding is that if your iPhone app is designed well and uses all of Apple's recommended methods, adjusting for different screen sizes and orientations is fairly easy. If you decided to go cheap/easy/dumb from the outset, then you made your bed, and now you get to lie in it.
    - cschep 16d ago
      I would get a little bit of joy if a duo user noticed the effort I put into making my app work well on their device. Why put effort into anything? Your take is bordering dangerously on cynicism. :)
      - matsemann 16d ago
        No, it's based on pragmatism. Every feature is a cost/benefit tradeoff. You didn't answer the question: would it be worth it?
    - busymom0 16d ago
      Duo users also likely have disposable income to spend on in app purchases, maybe click on ads to purchase things, and other monetization. So I do think it's worth building for it.
    - wat10000 16d ago
      As a user, this attitude makes me sad. As a professional programmer, it at least gratifies me to know this is the attitude I'm competing against.
      - matsemann 16d ago
        Thanks for the backhanded compliment, very mature.. I'm not an iOS developer, never made an app at all, I asked because I'm curious. What is it really to gain?
        wat10000 15d ago
        I just happened across this video with Apple’s new CEO and how Apple does things: https://youtu.be/4pqF5KMHOr8 https://youtu.be/4pqF5KMHOr8 He talks about a Steve Jobs story where he moved a piece of furniture and notes that the back, which would be against the wall, was still finished as nicely as the front, even though you’d never see it day to day. He compares this to Apple products being beautiful on the inside as well as the outside. Even the cheapest products are like this. There’s another story going around about the new guy, from his early days working on an Apple display. He was inspecting a supplier and discovered that the screws in the back had 35 grooves on the head versus the 25 specified. He ended up arguing with the supplier and making them fix it. Not because the grooves were core to the product, but because it’s important to get things right. In short, craftsmanship. Build things well. Take care of the details. Make your stuff beautiful even if only a few people will ever see it. Even if nobody will ever see it. Sure, an app maker could say, the Duo will be a small percentage of our user base, who cares if our app looks like shit to them. And quite a few of them will, I’m sure. And people will notice that these apps look and work like garbage on some of their friends’ and families’ phones. And this attitude will not confine itself to this one thing. These same app makers will say, who cares if this button is a little clipped. Who cares if the screen flashes during launch. Who cares if it takes five seconds to launch. Will we lose a noticeable number of users? And that’s how we end up with legions of apps that are hot trash. Many of them will do fine despite that. My health insurance’s app is hot trash and they’re not losing me as a customer. But the company that makes the hardware and software their app runs on is way more successful than they are. Obviously a big part of that is down to what industry they’re in. But some of it is because Apple finishes the back of their furniture.
    - echoangle 16d ago
      You could say this about every QoL feature though. That’s not a reason to not do it though, it adds up and at some point other apps that do bother to make their apps as good as possible will become more popular than yours.
    - fragmede 16d ago
      Can two people use opposite sides while in tent mode? Because that makes for some fun in-person games.
      - iknowstuff 16d ago
        Apparently the camera has to be active to render on both displays
    - matwood 16d ago
      > But will you gain anything by building for it? We're not talking about 0/1 here. There's making sure the app works and looks ok on the Duo and then there's building out Duo specific features. The works/looks ok is generally pretty easy with new devices. Just build with the new SDK and fix places where the app wasn't doing something likely already suggested by Apple. A big one will be safe areas which people often ignored except on the top and bottom.
  - BiteCode_dev 16d ago
    It is exotic, and bring only a little to the table for a stiff price increase.
    - devin 16d ago
      Not really. It's an iPad + iPhone. That's hardly exotic. Both of those product categories sell very well. People who own an iPad mini and an iPhone have every reason to consider this for the merged cost.
      - matwood 16d ago
        Exactly. Maybe not v1, but the Duo will likely lead me to not buy another iPad.
        ChrisMarshallNY 15d ago
        I use an iPad Mini every day (I’m on it, right now). I also have a big iPad Pro, that I never use. It’s likely that I will end up getting a Duo, eventually. I’m not in a hurry. I’ll bet that there will be teething problems. I suspect all my apps will run OK on Duos. I have been designing for flexible iOS screen dimensions since Day One (2012). It was a habit I already had, from MacOS development, and all my apps work in landscape mode (It’s shocking, how many apps you can break, simply by turning the phone 90 degrees). Looks like an open Duo is about the same dimensions as running an iOS app on Mac (by default—you can easily resize Mac iOS app windows). I am interested in seeing if I can leverage running on inside and outside screens. That might be interesting (but I don’t know if that’s possible. They probably switch off the outer screen, when the device is open). I’ll bet that Apple ships an Apple Pen Mini, for Duos.
  - adastra22 15d ago
    Yeah the Vision Pro is actually really nice, if expensive.
- Razengan 16d ago
  I had the 1st-gen Vision Pro, and then sold it. I really wanted to use it as my primary computing display, but as is almost always the case with Apple, the amazing hardware was hamstrung by the crippled OS. Even just being able to use it as a generic display i.e. with a Nintendo Switch would have been amazing.
- whatever1 16d ago
  It is indeed a niche product. Its price reflects the sales expectations of Apple. But its form factor has been validated for almost a decade now from other manufacturers. So iPhone Duo will do fine. It will not surpass a slab iPhone but fine. Vision Pro was a completely new beast, the hardware was not there, the market was not there.
  - dozerly 16d ago
    The price, hardware, and market was not there for the Vision Pro. There was no reason to buy a VR headset that couldn’t play games.
  - testing22321 16d ago
    > Its price reflects the sales expectations of Apple. People famously said that of the first iPhone, expensive at the time. Then about the $1k iPhone X. Apple have made phones a fashion accessory and status symbol. I won’t be surprised if the Duo sells extreme well, even by iPhone standards.
    - selectodude 16d ago
      My only concern is that they'll sell out so quickly for so long that I'll have to wait for the iPhone Duo Two-o because they won't be easy to get until like May 2027.
  - CharlesW 16d ago
    > It is indeed a niche product. It's worth noting that "niche" in this case means ~10M in its first year, comparted to an estimated 250M Apple smartphone shipments in 2027. So far, Apple has sold ~600K Vision Pro in total. Also, supporting Duo is not an enormous lift if you're already supporting resizable windows, as developers are required to do for OS 27.
  - fg137 16d ago
    The form factor of Vision Pro has also been validated for a decade from other manufacturers. And that means nothing. Because other manufacturers are not doing well either.
- busymom0 16d ago
  Developer here. Apple often rejects app submissions if the app doesn't look optimized for some iPhone device or iPad device. So won't be surprised if they reject new apps and updates for not being optimized for the Duo. This could be their way of getting developers to comply.
  - devin 16d ago
    That seems like a tough road. They've never been able to enforce that iPhone app makers build an iPad-compatible version or vice versa, and this looks exactly like that scenario.
    - CharlesW 16d ago
      It's mostly enforced, the only exception being apps with a legitimate iPhone-only hardware dependency. iPhone apps must function on iPad in iPhone-compatibility mode, apps must support window resizability as of OS 27, and apps can't detect iPad and refuse to run. And I don't think this is new, but setting the target to iPhone-only doesn't prevent iPhone apps from running on iPad.
      - deleted 16d ago
        [deleted]
- deleted 16d ago
  [deleted]
isodev 16d ago
It really feels quite irrelevant. Also, the amount of work to support this with zero support from Apple since WWDC is just absurd. And even if one does the work, Apple will just sherlock the cool features into their apps.
- nozzlegear 16d ago
  Why does it feel irrelevant? And what kind of support should Apple be providing beyond releasing Xcode and an iPhone Duo simulator?
  - isodev 16d ago
    And when did Apple decide to grace us with tools to support the Duo? Yeah, 3 hours ago. This should've been out in June so they can also get the feedback about all the silly design choices the Duo brings (and the bugs in that simulator). Too bad I can't just send them an invoice for all the wasted time.
    - madeofpalk 16d ago
      Honestly if they were really serious about this they would have released this back in December. Shame. Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave!!
- CharlesW 16d ago
  > Also, the amount of work to support this with zero support from Apple since WWDC is just absurd. Resources: https://developer.apple.com/search/?q=iphone%20duo https://developer.apple.com/search/?q=iphone%20duo Axiom: https://charleswiltgen.github.io/Axiom/ https://charleswiltgen.github.io/Axiom/ (my FOSS project, updated for iPhone Duo)
  - isodev 16d ago
    What is your point? That they eventually released something? The simulator came out today... on Friday afternoon lol
deleted 16d ago
[deleted]
OCTAGRAM 16d ago
I presume this Xcode 27.1 beta will not want to launch on our Mavericks Forever, the last Mac OS we actually like and use.
- CharlesW 16d ago
  Correct.
ar_lan 16d ago
I think this is my main hesitation with picking up the Duo on the first release. I have no doubt the build quality is exceptional, but the chance that the apps I use are not well optimized for this new form factor is pretty high in the first year of its release. I don't think they won't work, but I anticipate oddities to appear for a while, especially for older applications.
- puelocesar 16d ago
  I’m not sure about this, we already support resizing on our app for a while now because of our iPad/mac catalyst version, so I fail to see how different it would be on the Duo. I assume other apps will have have the same, since our team is super small compared to everyone else.
  - madeofpalk 16d ago
    Apps not rebuilt with the latest SDK will display in pillar-boxes mode, centred on the screen.
  - Kwpolska 16d ago
    The small screen is so small they had to move controls to the right, I would expect glitches because of that, especially for custom controls.
    - puelocesar 16d ago
      Ok, I’ll test that, but I think we are using the safe areas correctly
- deleted 16d ago
  [deleted]
- josephg 16d ago
  This is my feeling too. It looks great - I think I might pick one up. But I’m going to give apple a few years to iron out the bugs first. Version 3 of the duo will be a much better product than version 1.
inshard 16d ago
Waiting for my coding agent to have zero idea what I mean when I say build for iPhone duo (due to knowledge cutoffs in pre-training; happened when Liquid Glass came out previously).
- bnc319 16d ago
  I coincidentally asked Gemini a question about the iPhone Duo a few hours ago and, while it seemed to understand that it's a folding phone, it confidently hallucinated that in "tent" pose, there would be a display visible from both sides. In reality, only one side in this pose is the display, the other side is just back glass with the large cameras.
  - inshard 15d ago
    [flagged]
yreg 16d ago
Finally! So we have a little over a month between getting the simulator and first customers running our apps in Duo. I expect that most apps will look rather broken on release, but it will be smoothed out eventually.
- reaperducer 16d ago
  I expect that most apps will look rather broken on release, but it will be smoothed out eventually. Sadly, many apps will continue to look rather broken. There are still thousands of apps that still look wrong on iPad 16 years after its release, even with the 2x button pushed, for no good reason. I think I heard that Instygram only recently figured it out.
  - c-hendricks 16d ago
    To me that's said more about Instagram than the feasibility of building an app for a tablet.
  - pkamb 16d ago
    Instagram released a Reels-first iPad app that is much, much worse than the old iPhone-on-iPad app.
    - basisword 16d ago
      They finally released the full experience a few months back. I think their original excuse (years ago) was that 'people take photos on iPhone so iPad is unnecessary for Instagram'.
- comandillos 16d ago
  "You are a experienced iOS Software Engineer, your task is to migrate this application to the iPhone Duo layout...
  - thih9 16d ago
    “Here is your iOS app migrated to Surface Duo…” Tongue half in cheek, my point is that agents may be unreliable with fresh libraries. It looks like there are some fun edge cases too: > A reserved region can be active or inactive. For example, a reserved region that represents the fold is active when iPhone Duo is partially open, but inactive when it is fully open. source: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/technologyoverviews/preparing-your-app-for-iphone-duo https://developer.apple.com/documentation/technologyoverview...
Austin_Conlon 16d ago
Apple also bundles a /uikit-app-modernization skill which should help with adopting layouts to iPhone Duo.
- TheJoeMan 16d ago
  Apple’s Developer Documentation is historically pretty terrible. So I’d be curious to see if they stepped it up for the agent instructions for the new API’s.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 16d ago
    > historically Depends on how far back you go. Apple's current docs suck, and they have, for a long time (SwiftUI was so bad, that someone came up with this[0], and it was a lifesaver). But I'm old enough to remember Inside Macintosh[1], and that was a thing of beauty. Apple used to take technical documentation very seriously. Many of their technical writers had better tech chops, than the engineers making the stuff they wrote about. [0] https://swiftui-lab.com https://swiftui-lab.com [1] https://vintageapple.org/inside_o/ https://vintageapple.org/inside_o/
    - LoganDark 16d ago
      I really wish they still did, instead of focusing so much on trying to make it simple and obvious like in SwiftUI. Objective-C was a pinnacle of computing, and ever since Swift they've been devolving into the pursuit of oversimplifying and abstracting away the details such that they don't even feel necessary to teach anymore, even though as a new developer, I WANT TO KNOW THEM.
  - matwood 16d ago
    > Apple’s Developer Documentation is historically pretty terrible. Historically it was very good. Back when I was writing Mac and iOS apps in objective-c, Apple's docs were some of the best.
tehnoslow 16d ago
Thanks for Axiom, looks useful. Does it already cover the new 27.1 beta APIs?
phillipseamore 16d ago
Looks like Safari 27.1 on Duo ships without support for CSS viewport segments and any other CSS or JS to handle foldables.
- bartvk 16d ago
  I'm not a webdev, is that surprising? Or is it more something that you would have wanted or expected?
  - phillipseamore 16d ago
    Certainly, these aren't new standards and have been available on Android. We like to offer a split page when a foldable is used in a book pose and avoid having anything (especially interactive elements) in the middle.
interpol_p 16d ago
I started adding support for iPhone Duo in some of my apps. Here's an example of some of the work required https://mastodon.social/@simsaens/117296064810231465 https://mastodon.social/@simsaens/117296064810231465 — all my apps are hobby apps. Even though they all support iPad / resizability, it's still a large amount of work
Shank 16d ago
I've been testing with Xcode 27.1 on the Duo simulator and I was pleasantly surprised that nearly everything worked well, untouched. The main thing I need a real device for is knowing which buttons are easier or harder to press on the right edge, but using modern UIKit this was not that difficult. That, and taking advantage of the left/right inner display content areas.
kadir68 14d ago
Bana iPhone 18 ver
kadir68 14d ago
Bana iphone 18 ver

153 points by CameronBanga 16d ago

Now available for testing apps on the iPhone Duo! Here are some screenshots from getting my own app compiled, if anyone is interested: https://bsky.app/profile/cameronbanga.com/post/3mvsrxk5q7b2j https://bsky.app/profile/cameronbanga.com/post/3mvsrxk5q7b2j https://bsky.app/profile/cameronbanga.com/post/3mvss5wmxej2l https://bsky.app/profile/cameronbanga.com/post/3mvss5wmxej2l

khoury 16d ago

I'm just gonna ignore this thing and continue as if it never existed. Worked with Vision Pro that no body uses and will work with this.

yieldcrv 16d ago
taking the Apple strategy with the Apple ecosystem, genius
devin 16d ago
I'm not fangirling over it, but comparing it to Vision Pro is ridiculous.
- matsemann 16d ago
  But will you gain anything by building for it? Will you see noticeably more users or people choosing another alternative because you didn't specifically building the app for Duo? At least if it doesn't outright break.
  - reaperducer 16d ago
    But will you gain anything by building for it? Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Will you see noticeably more users or people choosing another alternative because you didn't specifically building the app for Duo? I haven't done iOS development in a long time, but my understanding is that if your iPhone app is designed well and uses all of Apple's recommended methods, adjusting for different screen sizes and orientations is fairly easy. If you decided to go cheap/easy/dumb from the outset, then you made your bed, and now you get to lie in it.
  - cschep 16d ago
    I would get a little bit of joy if a duo user noticed the effort I put into making my app work well on their device. Why put effort into anything? Your take is bordering dangerously on cynicism. :)
    - matsemann 16d ago
      No, it's based on pragmatism. Every feature is a cost/benefit tradeoff. You didn't answer the question: would it be worth it?
  - busymom0 16d ago
    Duo users also likely have disposable income to spend on in app purchases, maybe click on ads to purchase things, and other monetization. So I do think it's worth building for it.
  - wat10000 16d ago
    As a user, this attitude makes me sad. As a professional programmer, it at least gratifies me to know this is the attitude I'm competing against.
    - matsemann 16d ago
      Thanks for the backhanded compliment, very mature.. I'm not an iOS developer, never made an app at all, I asked because I'm curious. What is it really to gain?
      - wat10000 15d ago
        I just happened across this video with Apple’s new CEO and how Apple does things: https://youtu.be/4pqF5KMHOr8 https://youtu.be/4pqF5KMHOr8 He talks about a Steve Jobs story where he moved a piece of furniture and notes that the back, which would be against the wall, was still finished as nicely as the front, even though you’d never see it day to day. He compares this to Apple products being beautiful on the inside as well as the outside. Even the cheapest products are like this. There’s another story going around about the new guy, from his early days working on an Apple display. He was inspecting a supplier and discovered that the screws in the back had 35 grooves on the head versus the 25 specified. He ended up arguing with the supplier and making them fix it. Not because the grooves were core to the product, but because it’s important to get things right. In short, craftsmanship. Build things well. Take care of the details. Make your stuff beautiful even if only a few people will ever see it. Even if nobody will ever see it. Sure, an app maker could say, the Duo will be a small percentage of our user base, who cares if our app looks like shit to them. And quite a few of them will, I’m sure. And people will notice that these apps look and work like garbage on some of their friends’ and families’ phones. And this attitude will not confine itself to this one thing. These same app makers will say, who cares if this button is a little clipped. Who cares if the screen flashes during launch. Who cares if it takes five seconds to launch. Will we lose a noticeable number of users? And that’s how we end up with legions of apps that are hot trash. Many of them will do fine despite that. My health insurance’s app is hot trash and they’re not losing me as a customer. But the company that makes the hardware and software their app runs on is way more successful than they are. Obviously a big part of that is down to what industry they’re in. But some of it is because Apple finishes the back of their furniture.
  - echoangle 16d ago
    You could say this about every QoL feature though. That’s not a reason to not do it though, it adds up and at some point other apps that do bother to make their apps as good as possible will become more popular than yours.
  - fragmede 16d ago
    Can two people use opposite sides while in tent mode? Because that makes for some fun in-person games.
    - iknowstuff 16d ago
      Apparently the camera has to be active to render on both displays
  - matwood 16d ago
    > But will you gain anything by building for it? We're not talking about 0/1 here. There's making sure the app works and looks ok on the Duo and then there's building out Duo specific features. The works/looks ok is generally pretty easy with new devices. Just build with the new SDK and fix places where the app wasn't doing something likely already suggested by Apple. A big one will be safe areas which people often ignored except on the top and bottom.
- BiteCode_dev 16d ago
  It is exotic, and bring only a little to the table for a stiff price increase.
  - devin 16d ago
    Not really. It's an iPad + iPhone. That's hardly exotic. Both of those product categories sell very well. People who own an iPad mini and an iPhone have every reason to consider this for the merged cost.
    - matwood 16d ago
      Exactly. Maybe not v1, but the Duo will likely lead me to not buy another iPad.
      - ChrisMarshallNY 15d ago
        I use an iPad Mini every day (I’m on it, right now). I also have a big iPad Pro, that I never use. It’s likely that I will end up getting a Duo, eventually. I’m not in a hurry. I’ll bet that there will be teething problems. I suspect all my apps will run OK on Duos. I have been designing for flexible iOS screen dimensions since Day One (2012). It was a habit I already had, from MacOS development, and all my apps work in landscape mode (It’s shocking, how many apps you can break, simply by turning the phone 90 degrees). Looks like an open Duo is about the same dimensions as running an iOS app on Mac (by default—you can easily resize Mac iOS app windows). I am interested in seeing if I can leverage running on inside and outside screens. That might be interesting (but I don’t know if that’s possible. They probably switch off the outer screen, when the device is open). I’ll bet that Apple ships an Apple Pen Mini, for Duos.
- adastra22 15d ago
  Yeah the Vision Pro is actually really nice, if expensive.
Razengan 16d ago
I had the 1st-gen Vision Pro, and then sold it. I really wanted to use it as my primary computing display, but as is almost always the case with Apple, the amazing hardware was hamstrung by the crippled OS. Even just being able to use it as a generic display i.e. with a Nintendo Switch would have been amazing.
whatever1 16d ago
It is indeed a niche product. Its price reflects the sales expectations of Apple. But its form factor has been validated for almost a decade now from other manufacturers. So iPhone Duo will do fine. It will not surpass a slab iPhone but fine. Vision Pro was a completely new beast, the hardware was not there, the market was not there.
- dozerly 16d ago
  The price, hardware, and market was not there for the Vision Pro. There was no reason to buy a VR headset that couldn’t play games.
- testing22321 16d ago
  > Its price reflects the sales expectations of Apple. People famously said that of the first iPhone, expensive at the time. Then about the $1k iPhone X. Apple have made phones a fashion accessory and status symbol. I won’t be surprised if the Duo sells extreme well, even by iPhone standards.
  - selectodude 16d ago
    My only concern is that they'll sell out so quickly for so long that I'll have to wait for the iPhone Duo Two-o because they won't be easy to get until like May 2027.
- CharlesW 16d ago
  > It is indeed a niche product. It's worth noting that "niche" in this case means ~10M in its first year, comparted to an estimated 250M Apple smartphone shipments in 2027. So far, Apple has sold ~600K Vision Pro in total. Also, supporting Duo is not an enormous lift if you're already supporting resizable windows, as developers are required to do for OS 27.
- fg137 16d ago
  The form factor of Vision Pro has also been validated for a decade from other manufacturers. And that means nothing. Because other manufacturers are not doing well either.
busymom0 16d ago
Developer here. Apple often rejects app submissions if the app doesn't look optimized for some iPhone device or iPad device. So won't be surprised if they reject new apps and updates for not being optimized for the Duo. This could be their way of getting developers to comply.
- devin 16d ago
  That seems like a tough road. They've never been able to enforce that iPhone app makers build an iPad-compatible version or vice versa, and this looks exactly like that scenario.
  - CharlesW 16d ago
    It's mostly enforced, the only exception being apps with a legitimate iPhone-only hardware dependency. iPhone apps must function on iPad in iPhone-compatibility mode, apps must support window resizability as of OS 27, and apps can't detect iPad and refuse to run. And I don't think this is new, but setting the target to iPhone-only doesn't prevent iPhone apps from running on iPad.
    - deleted 16d ago
      [deleted]
deleted 16d ago
[deleted]

isodev 16d ago

It really feels quite irrelevant. Also, the amount of work to support this with zero support from Apple since WWDC is just absurd. And even if one does the work, Apple will just sherlock the cool features into their apps.

nozzlegear 16d ago
Why does it feel irrelevant? And what kind of support should Apple be providing beyond releasing Xcode and an iPhone Duo simulator?
- isodev 16d ago
  And when did Apple decide to grace us with tools to support the Duo? Yeah, 3 hours ago. This should've been out in June so they can also get the feedback about all the silly design choices the Duo brings (and the bugs in that simulator). Too bad I can't just send them an invoice for all the wasted time.
  - madeofpalk 16d ago
    Honestly if they were really serious about this they would have released this back in December. Shame. Steve Jobs is rolling in his grave!!
CharlesW 16d ago
> Also, the amount of work to support this with zero support from Apple since WWDC is just absurd. Resources: https://developer.apple.com/search/?q=iphone%20duo https://developer.apple.com/search/?q=iphone%20duo Axiom: https://charleswiltgen.github.io/Axiom/ https://charleswiltgen.github.io/Axiom/ (my FOSS project, updated for iPhone Duo)
- isodev 16d ago
  What is your point? That they eventually released something? The simulator came out today... on Friday afternoon lol

deleted 16d ago

[deleted]

OCTAGRAM 16d ago

I presume this Xcode 27.1 beta will not want to launch on our Mavericks Forever, the last Mac OS we actually like and use.

CharlesW 16d ago
Correct.

ar_lan 16d ago

I think this is my main hesitation with picking up the Duo on the first release. I have no doubt the build quality is exceptional, but the chance that the apps I use are not well optimized for this new form factor is pretty high in the first year of its release. I don't think they won't work, but I anticipate oddities to appear for a while, especially for older applications.

puelocesar 16d ago
I’m not sure about this, we already support resizing on our app for a while now because of our iPad/mac catalyst version, so I fail to see how different it would be on the Duo. I assume other apps will have have the same, since our team is super small compared to everyone else.
- madeofpalk 16d ago
  Apps not rebuilt with the latest SDK will display in pillar-boxes mode, centred on the screen.
- Kwpolska 16d ago
  The small screen is so small they had to move controls to the right, I would expect glitches because of that, especially for custom controls.
  - puelocesar 16d ago
    Ok, I’ll test that, but I think we are using the safe areas correctly
deleted 16d ago
[deleted]
josephg 16d ago
This is my feeling too. It looks great - I think I might pick one up. But I’m going to give apple a few years to iron out the bugs first. Version 3 of the duo will be a much better product than version 1.

inshard 16d ago

Waiting for my coding agent to have zero idea what I mean when I say build for iPhone duo (due to knowledge cutoffs in pre-training; happened when Liquid Glass came out previously).

bnc319 16d ago
I coincidentally asked Gemini a question about the iPhone Duo a few hours ago and, while it seemed to understand that it's a folding phone, it confidently hallucinated that in "tent" pose, there would be a display visible from both sides. In reality, only one side in this pose is the display, the other side is just back glass with the large cameras.
- inshard 15d ago
  [flagged]

yreg 16d ago

Finally! So we have a little over a month between getting the simulator and first customers running our apps in Duo. I expect that most apps will look rather broken on release, but it will be smoothed out eventually.

reaperducer 16d ago
I expect that most apps will look rather broken on release, but it will be smoothed out eventually. Sadly, many apps will continue to look rather broken. There are still thousands of apps that still look wrong on iPad 16 years after its release, even with the 2x button pushed, for no good reason. I think I heard that Instygram only recently figured it out.
- c-hendricks 16d ago
  To me that's said more about Instagram than the feasibility of building an app for a tablet.
- pkamb 16d ago
  Instagram released a Reels-first iPad app that is much, much worse than the old iPhone-on-iPad app.
  - basisword 16d ago
    They finally released the full experience a few months back. I think their original excuse (years ago) was that 'people take photos on iPhone so iPad is unnecessary for Instagram'.
comandillos 16d ago
"You are a experienced iOS Software Engineer, your task is to migrate this application to the iPhone Duo layout...
- thih9 16d ago
  “Here is your iOS app migrated to Surface Duo…” Tongue half in cheek, my point is that agents may be unreliable with fresh libraries. It looks like there are some fun edge cases too: > A reserved region can be active or inactive. For example, a reserved region that represents the fold is active when iPhone Duo is partially open, but inactive when it is fully open. source: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/technologyoverviews/preparing-your-app-for-iphone-duo https://developer.apple.com/documentation/technologyoverview...

Austin_Conlon 16d ago

Apple also bundles a /uikit-app-modernization skill which should help with adopting layouts to iPhone Duo.

TheJoeMan 16d ago
Apple’s Developer Documentation is historically pretty terrible. So I’d be curious to see if they stepped it up for the agent instructions for the new API’s.
- ChrisMarshallNY 16d ago
  > historically Depends on how far back you go. Apple's current docs suck, and they have, for a long time (SwiftUI was so bad, that someone came up with this[0], and it was a lifesaver). But I'm old enough to remember Inside Macintosh[1], and that was a thing of beauty. Apple used to take technical documentation very seriously. Many of their technical writers had better tech chops, than the engineers making the stuff they wrote about. [0] https://swiftui-lab.com https://swiftui-lab.com [1] https://vintageapple.org/inside_o/ https://vintageapple.org/inside_o/
  - LoganDark 16d ago
    I really wish they still did, instead of focusing so much on trying to make it simple and obvious like in SwiftUI. Objective-C was a pinnacle of computing, and ever since Swift they've been devolving into the pursuit of oversimplifying and abstracting away the details such that they don't even feel necessary to teach anymore, even though as a new developer, I WANT TO KNOW THEM.
- matwood 16d ago
  > Apple’s Developer Documentation is historically pretty terrible. Historically it was very good. Back when I was writing Mac and iOS apps in objective-c, Apple's docs were some of the best.

tehnoslow 16d ago

Thanks for Axiom, looks useful. Does it already cover the new 27.1 beta APIs?

phillipseamore 16d ago

Looks like Safari 27.1 on Duo ships without support for CSS viewport segments and any other CSS or JS to handle foldables.

bartvk 16d ago
I'm not a webdev, is that surprising? Or is it more something that you would have wanted or expected?
- phillipseamore 16d ago
  Certainly, these aren't new standards and have been available on Android. We like to offer a split page when a foldable is used in a book pose and avoid having anything (especially interactive elements) in the middle.

interpol_p 16d ago

I started adding support for iPhone Duo in some of my apps. Here's an example of some of the work required https://mastodon.social/@simsaens/117296064810231465 https://mastodon.social/@simsaens/117296064810231465 — all my apps are hobby apps. Even though they all support iPad / resizability, it's still a large amount of work

Shank 16d ago

I've been testing with Xcode 27.1 on the Duo simulator and I was pleasantly surprised that nearly everything worked well, untouched. The main thing I need a real device for is knowing which buttons are easier or harder to press on the right edge, but using modern UIKit this was not that difficult. That, and taking advantage of the left/right inner display content areas.

kadir68 14d ago

Bana iPhone 18 ver

kadir68 14d ago

Bana iphone 18 ver