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The US tried to stop cartel money-laundering; devastated mom-and-pop businesses
- ajross 2mo agoThis article is repeating a transparently false framing as the truth. This wasn't a law about cartel money laundering, which doesn't happen near the border anyway. Money laundering at scale happens in the global market and always has. The clear purpose of the regulation was exactly the "side effect" detailed in the article: hurting immigrant communities that maintain ties across the border. And it worked. It does no one any good to pretend otherwise.
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- abfan1127 2mo agoThe issue is that it wasn't "clear" to sufficient people. Too many people believe at face value the claims. Some of them honestly believe the face value claims.
- scottLobster 2mo agoI'm not sure that more information will help those people. I saw an interview with a Haitian-American restaurant chain owner who voted for Trump and was dismayed that he might have to close a couple of locations due the removal of Temporary Protective Status for Haiti causing him to lose employees. He said that Trump sold him on the idea that "he was a businessman, and would act like a businessman", and that he now regrets his vote. Like, the "eating the cats and dogs" line, specifically targeted at Haitians, wasn't enough for you to think that maybe this guy didn't have your best interest at heart? Also Trump's history as a "businessman" is anything but wildly successful or something to envy. These people will see whatever they want to see until they get hit, so unless you're in a position to provide the hit, or somehow impart discernment that most elementary school kids have, they can only be contained and we should be happy if they pay their taxes and don't vote.
- watwut 2mo ago> Also Trump's history as a "businessman" is anything but wildly successful or something to envy. Maybe we should stop treating these contradictions with Polyanna level of naivety. What is more likely: a.) these people did not seen the obvious contradictions or b.) these people are giving out publicly palatable sympathetic responses. It is all economic vote, except that conservatives were never good for small businesses. What if these people are not as dumb as they pretend to be. What if they are actually attracted to the same thing that makes other men attracted to Trump - the male supremacy ideology and the racism against "not them exactly". The fun ugly part of it. The cruelty against homosexuals and trans. Saying that openly will still makes you look bad, so we get the "we had no idea, this was just economic vote" kind of nonsense.
- mdp2021 2mo ago> What if these people ... What if What if we got proper stats instead of adding slices to the pie chart not knowing how big they are. "What if they were all perverts". Well, that would have been remarkable in the distribution of chances.
- watwut 2mo ago> What if we got proper stats We have plenty of those, we are just ignoring them. > "What if they were all perverts". Well, that would have been remarkable in the distribution of chances. There would be absolutely nothing remarkable about distribution of chances here. It is the most plausible and explanation. It is also completely consistent with all the data we have - including the fact that record of abuse never harms republican politicians. Instead, it raises their credit. It is also consistent with philosophies the leadership openly pushes for.
- mdp2021 2mo agoAnd how can your point be credible with the sweeping generalization and ignoring for the sake of the monothesis e.g. the systemic failures that brought us to this point. I'd start again using quantifiers and a more complexive analysis.
- tangamandapio 2mo agoThe belief that all the people you yourselves elected are lying all the time and openly out to get you is such an uniquely Gringo idea it's entirely possible the migrants in this community, like the one showcased in the article, mistakenly took the racists' word at face value. Retrospectively, looking at the various kinds of concentration camps set up all over the country, that might have been a bad choice to make. But that doesn't make it a less reasonable one at the time.
- ratelimitsteve 2mo agoin fairness: the people we elected lie a lot and one of them has built a personal army that he uses to fill the concentration camps you allude to.
- thinkcontext 2mo agoIts a particularly galling policy for disproportionately hurting small businesses given the number of money laundering, sanctions avoidance, etc big fish Trump has pardoned, ended investigations and enforcement generally.
- cowboylowrez 2mo agonot to mention a certain financial firm cancelling trump on suspicions of HIS money laundering lol
- bix6 2mo agoAh yes let’s ruin someone’s life over $200 but nobody look at Trumps accounts. He definitely was debanked for political reasons and not because he was laundering money.
- throwaway894345 2mo ago> He definitely was debanked for political reasons and not because he was laundering money. What proof do you have? On what planet would major banks piss off the most capricious and unrestrained president in modern US history? What possible upside could there be for them? Trump (34 time fraud felon known for scamming everyone he can and using his position in government to massively enrich himself) was almost certainly "debanked" because he is doing more of the same shady shit that he's known for and the banks are obligated by the law to treat him like anyone else.
- alistairSH 2mo agoI think the parent post was sarcasm. Capital One closed hundreds of Trump's accounts in 2021. Trump is suing them, claiming it's a political debanking. CapOne fighting back because they feel their AML team was correct to close those accounts. https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/capital-one-says-it-closed-trump-organizations-accounts-after-anti-money-2026-08-01/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/capital-one-says-it...
- throwaway894345 2mo agoThanks, I misread the parents sarcasm for garden variety MAGA comment.
- bix6 2mo agoMy post was sarcastic. July 12th Capital One said they closed accounts due to AML concerns. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/capital-one-close-trump-accounts/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/capital-one-close-trump-ac...
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- Aeolun 2mo agoI'd say the law has achieve exactly the effect it intended.
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- draw_down 2mo ago[dead]
- catigula 2mo agoThe amount of nickel-and-diming and outright being screwed over at local businesses I've experienced in my lifetime vastly eclipses generous return policies and treatment by megacorporations.
- foco_tubi 2mo agoHot take: it’s generally probably less harmful psychologically to be screwed over by an identifiable individual than a faceless mega corporation. Rationalizing a bad experience as “one bad apple” feels better than ruminating over systemic oppression.
- x3ro 2mo agoLet’s keep in mind that US corporations just received literal billions in tariff refunds, effectively stealing money from everyone who bought anything in the last year. But i’m sure being charged an extra dollar at a small store that’s barely getting by (assuming this is true) is the real problem..
- altern8 2mo agoI forget where I read this but I agree that if you want to know the real reason for a government policy, look at the effect is has. It's pretty obvious what they're doing.
- kej 2mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...
- gruez 2mo agohttps://www.astralcodexten.com/p/come-on-obviously-the-purpose-of https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/come-on-obviously-the-purpo...
- TheJoeMan 2mo ago"The purpose of a cancer hospital is to cure as many patients as possible" seems also like an extreme? They are businesses, after all, and there will be cases that would be unreasonable to pursue?
- altern8 2mo agoYes! That one, thanks.
- kej 2mo agoI'm sure POSIWID gets used as a reductive way to avoid thinking through things, but his examples seem just as devoid of thought. His 67% cancer center could probably cure more cancers if society invested more in cancer treatments and research, or if doctors persisted in continuing treatment instead of palliative care more often. Russia could nuke Kiev, or Ukraine's Western allies could send their own troops to push Russia back. The New York bus system could convert to all electric vehicles but that would cost a lot and have its own environmental considerations. In the current conversation, the policy could have been based on research about where and how cartels were doing their laundering, and designed in a way that minimized the impact on non-cartel immigrant communities. In all of those cases, the system is the result of choices that lead to the current outcomes, and I think that's the part that's worth thinking about.
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- thinkcontext 2mo agoI wonder how much this will drive adoption of crypto for remittances.
- lokar 2mo agoI don’t see how. Their problem is they have cash and want to turn it into something else. The law criminalizes that transaction without reporting.
- mdp2021 2mo ago> a violation of the fourth amendment that protects the rights of people against unreasonable searches and seizures So there exist juridical interpretations that call monitoring low value money transfer «unreasonable searches and seizures»? This is immensely interesting. Does anyone have further info?
- burger_moon 2mo agoHe's also making it difficult/impossible for people without work visas to obtain auto loans which is destroying the used car market in latino communities and cities with large latino populations. Executive Order 14406 defends this with, > Low-dollar cross-border funds transfers have been used to facilitate or commit terrorist financing, narcotics trafficking, human trafficking, and other illegal activity. They're banging the national security drum to make it unlivable here for some.
- gamblor956 2mo agoOne day hopefully another president will use the national security drum to close down all Trump golf resorts and properties on the grounds that they are used to facilitate illegal activity.
- sherburt3 2mo agoThat already happened: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/politics/mar-a-lago-search-warrant-fbi-donald-trump https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/08/politics/mar-a-lago-search-wa...
- gamblor956 2mo agoNo, they used the existing system of due process to investigate whether crimes were committed at Mar-a-Lago. They didn't claim national security to shut it down.
- sherburt3 2mo agoOh ok you want the government to create an extrajudicial process to punish political opponents. Sounds kinda like Facism.
- insane_dreamer 2mo agosometimes you gotta fight fire with fire :)
- OutOfHere 2mo agoMoney laundering is an absurd concept. People should be free to transfer money to whoever they like, without permission. It is a fundamental purpose of money. To deny this purpose puts the validity of particular money into question. Putting up fences results in a very high rate of false positives. No wonder people use crypto as they should. If you want to go after cartels, then actually go after cartels. That's not what they're doing.
- BobbyJo 2mo ago> Money laundering is an absurd concept. People should be free to transfer money to whoever they like, without permission. This ignores that taxes are a thing that need enforcement. Its like saying basic necessities should be free, the world should be without pollution, or cancer shouldn't exist.
- OutOfHere 2mo agoWell of course they should be. You have been brainwashed so much that you can't even conceive of a different world. For taxes, I favor land value tax. Basic necessities can absolutely be free under it, as the super rich hold plenty of land. We can have a world without much pollution if we switch away from fossil fuels, and if we take the lifecycle of chemicals into account. Note that excesss carbon dioxide is pollution too. Regarding cancer, medical science is working toward it.
- BobbyJo 2mo ago> Well of course they should be. You have been brainwashed so much that you can't even conceive of a different world. Assuming you are talking about free basic necessities: I can conceive it fine, I just also understand that conceiving doesn't mean it will work, and history has shown it won't. Me making the statement was itself conception no? I can conceive of a million different economic systems, but I also understand most of them are infeasible, and the risk of running the experiment is extremely high, with little to gain in a my country, where obesity is a much larger problem than starving.
- Krypto26 2mo agoMy question is , why don't these people have bank accounts?
- kotaKat 2mo agoDepends. Why can't banks offer more debit cards to more people and, I don't know, stop honoring overdrafts? Transactions should decline, not overdraft, even with overdraft off. We've built lots of traps for people that have balances near-zero that keep them near zero, and one little mistake snowballs into blacklists from Telecheck, ChexSystems, and other fun companies. Meanwhile once you can keep your balance with at least three significant zeros in it, the bank will be happy to shower you back in rewards and cashback, ripped away from the fees and interest levied to the poor.
- phoghed 2mo agoBank of America had a class action against them because they would reorder transactions to make you overdraft. For example, when I was relatively poor and near 0 balance in like 2009 era I’d wait for my direct deposit to come so I could grocery shop and pay bills. When it deposited, the funds would become available to use even though the transaction wasn’t cleared, pretty normal so far. So say you pay 2 bills and grocery shop, come back on Monday and you’d see that your pending deposit vanished, 3 transactions cleared for 3 overdrafts, then your deposit cleared afterward. This is just one that I know about because it happened to me. I wonder how many less blatant scams like this exist that most people aren’t even aware of.
- vorpalhex 2mo agoIt surprises me how much Americans don't understand how deeply the cartel is in every transaction. Yes, sending money to Grandma to pay for a car is funding the cartel who probably got paid to make the car available. Grandma may even pay small direct bribes to the cartel just to be able to live her life. Either all of Mexico can move to the US (probably not a winning solution) or we can make Mexico a safe and excellent country again, and that means getting rid of the cartel. And yes, other countries have their issues too and we should help stabilize those countries as well. If the Mexican government can fix their cartel issue, we can go back to normal remittances. Until then the US will make policy choices to resolve problems. As always, the salt of the earth people will pay the cost for politicians being bad at things.
- wombat-man 2mo agoI think it's possible, but pretty difficult. There's just too much money to be made selling drugs to the US.
- vorpalhex 2mo agoI am against marijuana but I think it's clear legalizing it successfully starves the cartel of a lot of drug financing (and therefore we should both legalize it and have public campaigns against using it, ala alcohol). Even the weird state based legalization has caused the cartels to pivot into things like avocado farming and mining. Drug users don't seem to be overly preoccupied with what drug they use. Probably shifting them towards lower risk choices (pot, ketamine) and aggressively crack down on dealers is a winning combo. (A lot of low level dealers are just graduated drug users but the line between buying and selling is a large one and dealers do immense harm while also shielding more dangerous criminals. Incentives against dealing incl aggressive enforcement are powerful at dissuading low level dealers, which in turn starves the criminal organizations.)
- InitialLastName 2mo ago> Drug users don't seem to be overly preoccupied with what drug they use. What? In the case of opiates (which is the most significant drug problem we have at the moment), users are often physically addicted to a specific substance and that addiction was often initiated by legitimate medical usage of that substance. They'll certainly care if you say "hey, you can't use heroin any more, have some weed instead".
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- giardini 2mo agoIf this were true there wouldn't be any "mom-and-pop businesses" left. But they're still present and making money. So I call this "horse puckey"!
- derefr 2mo ago@dang is there a mechanism to indicate that I think a post itself is okay, but that the entire comments section attached to it should be nuked from orbit? Are we supposed to flag the post in this case?
- graemep 2mo agoWe have similar problems in the UK. Lots of extra paperwork for small businesses and individuals, very little impact on big crime that was supposed to be the target. Just opening a bank account can be a pain, and more so if you are living abroad (whether a citizen or not).
- pseudohadamard 2mo agoIt's pretty much everywhere after the US forced any banks with any business dealings in the US, which in practice is all of them because of how international banking networks operate, to sign up to all this crap as well. So you've got organisations like Amazon, a USD800 billion company, happily laundering their (absence of) tax payments overseas with no repercussions while Granny Smith has to fill out AML paperwork when she sells her crocheted tea cosies through an online shopping site.
- graemep 2mo agoThe UK has also been very keen on it itself. UK law is at least as bad as the requirements imposed by the US. A lot of other countries are better.
- Ferret7446 2mo agoThis is just all/most regulation in a nutshell. The cost of compliance is regressive, like how the process is the punishment in legal matters.
- arjie 2mo agoOne might as well say "the surgeon tried to cut out the cancer; took out some healthy tissue". Yeah, that's how it goes. The existence of side effects is not convincing as a reason not to do things. The objective is to get results while minimizing undesirable side effects, but the desirable amount of side effects is not zero.
- eviks 2mo agoWhat if you don't get results while not doing much of minimizing? And no, the "desirable" amount is zero
- izacus 2mo agoThen you did a bad tradeoff. Was the bad tradeoff done here?
- graceful6800 2mo agoMore like "surgeon tried to cut out the cancer, missed, cut out liver instead. Patient still has cancer"
- kazinator 2mo agoSince the cartels have no problem moving money, this is like an incompetent surgeon cutting in the wrong place, taking out entirely the wrong thing.