11 ms·

OpenPrinter

1156 points by bouh 3mo ago

TokenLens 3mo ago
[dead]
HelloUsername 3mo ago
Interesting comment from last time this was posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48093670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48093670 Inkjet printing requires orders of magnitude more engineering expertise, materials science, industry experience and financial resources than most people imagine. That is the reason, open inkjet printers don't exist despite having been consumer products with the same drawbacks for more than forty years. That is why this is a pre-crowdfund landing page without a demonstrating a working prototype. I would like to be wrong, but I expect you to be waiting a long time. An inkjet printer is not a collection of off the shelf parts. It is a machine that operates at the edge of chemistry, fluid dynamics, and electro-mechanical design...you have to place tiny tiny drops of liquid ink on commodity wood pulp with precision under arbitrary environmental conditions, get that ink to dry on the wood pulp, but not in tank or nozzel, while producing acceptable color, durability, and ease of use. Also lawyers...there are patents.
- rubidium 3mo ago
  99% of this is the printhead and the ink formulation. Assuming you use generic off the shelf solutions for those two components you’re set. All the printer companies do their lock in at the firmware and software layer.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3mo ago
    Yeah, I found that original comment to be a bit nonsensical. It would be like arguing you can't build your own PC because the lithography tech needed to make modern ICs is really complicated. I wasn't planning a laying out my own chip, and these guys aren't planning on building their own printhead from scratch.
    - jnaina 3mo ago
      yes, I was about to build another gaming PC, and then I remembered the ASML machine costs 20 bajillion. Will wait for the ASML machine to come down in price, to around couple of grand.
      - bluGill 3mo ago
        You don't need ASML machines. There are labs all over that can build chips. I know of one near me that has a license to make the Pentium I chip (or possibly a similar chip - the exact chips classified, but I know can make the electronics for the Tomahawk missile thus ensuring that in case of war there is supply chain redundancy) - they need to get $30,000 each for them just to break even on labor costs since they don't have mass production. Which is to say you can make your gaming PC at home as a one-off if you want. Though personally I won't get near the toxic chemicals used.
    - imtringued 3mo ago
      There's also the long term strategy where if they can sell enough printers, they may at some point in the future do get the budget needed to make their own print head. It's not like printers were invented in 2026.
  - dotancohen 3mo ago
    At the 2400 DPI that an HP printer can handle, the printer needs to place the head at 1/100 mm precision three times for every single dot on the page, and not smear them, despite not knowing what thickness or weight or finish the paper has. That is not trivial.
    - a96 3mo ago
      2400 dpi is not the bar for entry, though. Even 240 would qualify as a printer, albeit not a good one (SOTA in 1995 maybe).
      - dotancohen 3mo ago
        I respectfully disagree. For all the use cases shown on the linked page, a 240 DPI printer would not be acceptable.
        a96 3mo ago
        Yes. There's the obvious difference of "it's a working printer" and desirable and useful product. You don't need to be state of the art to be in the first category was my thought.
- drum55 3mo ago
  That's why this is just using off the shelf cartridges with commercial heads.
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
  - jboy55 3mo ago
    Which is why its more surprising this was first announced last year and there's no Proof of Concept demo yet? But really, I've given up on ink jet printers, and have gone the cheap B&W laser route for anything I need to print at home (In the past year, 2 times, a backup ticket and some paperwork that needed a real signature sent back). But when I had them, the thing that went bad 99.999% of the time was the cartridges or a clogged nozzle on the head. So the advantage here, on the repairability side not DRM, is the rails and motors? Also that cutter is going to be a pain, having worked on Lightjet printers, that cutter was nearly all field service issues until the FEs started leaving the "laser" key so lab managers could reset the blade themselves.
    - pbhjpbhj 3mo ago
      Re PoC, they have a YouTube video showing black and white printing and paper cutting on the Crowd Supply page, https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer/updates/progress-update-and-details-about-our-nomination-for-a-french-design-award https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer/updates/....
- amenghra 3mo ago
  An open source all-in-one-printer would be a great device to have. For eg I would love to have the scanner include a camera. So I can get “instant scans” most of the time, and a higher res scan when needed. Maybe the camera could also notice when the person making copies or scans forgot their original and ping them?
  - sunshinesnacks 3mo ago
    The required super wide field of view for the camera could be tricky, without making the box really deep. Or am I not thinking about it right?
    - nerdsniper 3mo ago
      You'd probably need some basic custom lens (not crazy $$) that would distort the heck out of the image, but you could correct the shape in software. Given that GP wanted this to be the "low quality / high speed" secondary scanning option, the inevitable loss of quality would be acceptable. Seeing chromatic aberration on a document scan would be strange, but this is basically how many document scans are created today (using phone camera + software correction). It's just the lens effects from this cheap lens would be a lot worse than what Apple/Samsung/Google can do with their super expensive to design custom lens stacks.
      - KennyBlanken 3mo ago
        That's pointless when ADF scanners will do a dual-side scan, at around 2-3 seconds per page, and more importantly, can do so with a stack of pages. They've been around long enough that you can find them all over the place used for quite cheap and they likely only need a cleaning.
- tjohns 3mo ago
  On the technology side, I'm somewhat hopeful because it looks like they're using off-the-shelf HP ink cartridges for this. HP cartridges embed the printhead into the cartridge itself, and that printhead is arguably the most complicated part of the entire device. Outsource the printhead, and you're just designing a plotter with a PCL interface. I agree that the bigger challenge is going to be patents. It also wouldn't surprise me to see HP add DRM to cartridges to authenticate the printer itself if this catches on. (Possibly requiring a printer driver/firmware update.)
  - pbronez 3mo ago
    I don’t see why HP would want to do that. They have huge margins on ink, right? I’m sure the increase in cartridge sales would offset lost subscription revenue from useless cloud services, if only because the people who are gonna use an open source printer would never pay for that anyway.
    - ldoughty 3mo ago
      Looks like the intended use case here is you buy the cartridge once, and refill it, and OpenPrinter won't lock you out after doing so like HP does.
      - labcomputer 3mo ago
        Yea, but then the print head clogs up after the second time you refill it and you buy another expensive print head + ink from HP. Frankly, I think 99% of the reason they started integrating the print head with the cartridge was to avoid all the problems you so frequently see on printers that don’t use disposable heads.
        deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
    - taneq 3mo ago
      Yeah, if you’re buying the ink they would be happy, I’d think. The ideal razor-and-blades business model!
- zczc 3mo ago
  From the specs: Compatible cartridges HP 63 and HP 63 XL (US) HP 302 and HP 302 XL (Europe) HP 803 and HP 803 XL (Asia) So they just use HP inkjet technology. That makes it less open-source, but even "open source" parts are going to be under non-commercial license (CC BY-NC-SA) anyway.
  - phoronixrly 3mo ago
    > even "open source" parts are going to be under non-commercial license (CC BY-NC-SA) anyway You're saying this as if it is a bad thing? I absolutely welcome this decision by the authors!
    - lima 3mo ago
      Non commercial licenses are not generally considered open source
      - worik 3mo ago
        Yes But how important?
        __float 3mo ago
        If it is not an open source license, you should not call it open source. Imagine someone saying the same thing about MongoDB's license, for example.
        Sankozi 3mo ago
        Is there a Linux server run on fully open source hardware (what would that mean btw?)? Should we stop using "open source" because almost all computers are not fully open source?
        sehansen 3mo ago
        Quite a lot of open source hardware is licensed under the BY-SA Creative Commons license which is an actual open source license. E.g. the Arduinos and things like the Milkymist One which can actually run linux.
- amelius 3mo ago
  It really makes more sense to just buy a laser printer, in almost all cases.
  - ocdtrekkie 3mo ago
    Yeah conceptually this excites me but I decided color printing wasn't worth it at home years ago and haven't regretted it.
    - taneq 3mo ago
      A colour laser A4 multifunction is only a few hundred bucks these days, five years ago I’d have agreed with you but it might be worth re-evaluating.
      - happymellon 3mo ago
        I've reevaluated. Still not worth it. My Brother is hitting 10 years now, and I'm trying to think of many scenarios where I really needed to print colour at home.
        cromka 3mo ago
        I don't think this was a mono vs color argument but rather ink color vs laser color.
        imtringued 3mo ago
        If you go with a laser color printer you will have to buy four toners instead of one.
        happymellon 3mo ago
        Gggp post said they were just sticking with b+w laser, and gp post suggested a colour laser.
        taneq 3mo ago
- NooneAtAll3 3mo ago
  isn't inkjet an outdated tech by now?
  - loloquwowndueo 3mo ago
    How so?
    - NooneAtAll3 3mo ago
      laser printers are cheap and don't need catriges
      - d3Xt3r 3mo ago
        Color laser printers (MFPs with ADFs to be exact) aren't exactly cheap. Last I checked they were 2-3x more expensive than equivalent inkjets, and occupied a lot of space too.
        NooneAtAll3 3mo ago
        > and occupied a lot of space too. all printers are the size of microwave. Inkjets aren't any smaller > MFPs with ADFs to be exact at that point you're talking about a full-on office appliance and far above DIY repair scale the discussion is about
        d3Xt3r 3mo ago
        My Brother inkjet with an ADF is smaller than a microwave and super cheap. Not something you'd ever see in a typical office. If I could buy a color laser printer with similar features, dimensions and price, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
      - loloquwowndueo 3mo ago
        How do laser printers not need cartridges? I own two, mind you.
  - 3mo ago
- infl8ed 3mo ago
  I noticed that previous post is from a couple of months ago, and it looks like about a week ago they posted a project update and they claim for their current prototype: "We are successfully printing in both black and full color." https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer/updates/progress-update-and-details-about-our-nomination-for-a-french-design-award https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer/updates/... Of course I have no way of verifying either way. Still I do think the project looks quite interesting, I'm in the market for a printer and this is certainly the most interesting one I've seen in a while.
  - Doxin 3mo ago
    There's a video of the prototype printing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB7iAFXCJQM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB7iAFXCJQM
- WhyNotHugo 3mo ago
  I have enormous respect for dot matrix printers. They're easy to repair and service, the tech is relatively simple, it's cheap, it's parts are cheap, its supplies are cheap. It's way more sustainable than any other printer: both the printer itself in its manufacturing and the ribbons themselves. The waste they produce is also much less polluting than any other printer.
  - hn_throwaway_99 3mo ago
    They also kind of suck. I'm not one for "the latest and greatest", but their output quality is atrocious compared to modern printers, they're loud AF, and I'm guessing it may have existed but I never saw a dot matrix that didn't have the perforated edge for feeding.
    - taneq 3mo ago
      I think that’s a product of their time rather than the dot matrix tech itself. Paper feeding is hard. Tractor strips made it easier.
      - dragontamer 3mo ago
        Dot Matrix are still used in outdoor / high humidity environments in USA. A lot of car shops with regular 100% humidity conditions will swear by dot matrix + tractor for feeding paper + printing. Plus, the carbon copy forms are guaranteed to be exact carbon copies which also leads to legal guarantees about copies of paper being provably exactly the same in the court of law.
      - bitwize 3mo ago
        Pen plotters could accept sheets of A4 and very precisely position them since at least the 80s. I'm surprised that dot-matrix printers didn't adopt similar technologies sooner, though it could be because by the mid-80s dot-matrix printers were the budget option, fanfold paper with the tractor strips was still abundant, and it was much easier to just stick with the cheaply manufacturable technologies rather than take the risk of innovation with a product that wouldn't sell upmarket anyway.
- poulpy123 3mo ago
  The second part is verbose but say absolutely nothing of the difficulty and issues. It could be applied to anything, even cooking a steak
- GuB-42 3mo ago
  Try to find an typical consumer inkjet printer on AliExpress, you won't find any, or if you do, it will be someone reselling the usual brands like HP or Canon. You will find label printers, industrial printers, 3D printers, thermal printers, and all sorts of weird stuff, but none of them able to put ink on a stack of A4 paper. If the Chinese, who are known for being able to make knockoffs of everything are not able to make inkjet printers, this should tell you how hard it is. It addition to the print head, reliable paper transport is also really hard. That problem is often sidestepped by using a paper roll or by printing one sheet at a time, as it is the case for the Openprinter.
  - ____tom____ 3mo ago
    No. Per Google, most HP printers are made in China. A more likely explanation has to do with the economics of ink jet printers. The ink sales are so profitable that HP and other manufacturers subsidize their printers. This leads to prices at or near cost. Since Ali express vendors can't count on follow on ink sales, they can't compete on price. And competing on price is Ali express's reason for existence. So, ink jet printer are harder to find on Ali express. At least, low end consumer focused ink jet printers. Laser printers, which aren't subsidized are common
  - ValdikSS 3mo ago
    Several Chinese companies have their own domestic laser printers, claiming of in-house components and development (Cumtenn, ZoneWin), and one company does inkjet printers in addition to lasers (Deli Printer). https://www.delioa.com/products/a4-inkjet-printer/ https://www.delioa.com/products/a4-inkjet-printer/ ZoneWin, a laser printer company, made a clone of both HP LaserJet 1020 and LaserJet M1005, which reuse most of the original/compatible parts (Q2612A cartridge). They claim it's 100% domestic parts only. https://www.rtmworld.com/news/new-chinese-made-printer-uses-hp-cartridges/ https://www.rtmworld.com/news/new-chinese-made-printer-uses-...
- alden5 3mo ago
  The fact the campaign is run on crowdsupply makes me a lot more hopeful it'll get to market vs a site like kickstarter. Crowdsupply requires a working prototype before launching and they provide all the expertise to actually get projects to market, off the top of my head I don't believe any crowdsupply project has failed to deliver.
  - skimmed_milk 3mo ago
    Eoma68 did, https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop I never got mine at least.
- etdznots 3mo ago
  Lol then 3D printing must be space technology that only the most advanced materials labs in the world can achieve, yeah inkjet is not simple, but it’s also not magic,
  - Double_a_92 3mo ago
    The issue is mainly the nozzle. Ironically 3D printers are a lot easier there, since you just need to melt a thick wire, and not worry about microscopically small droplets.
- abetusk 3mo ago
  I certainly don't have deep knowledge in this area but my understanding is that the cartridge is basically a cavity with a small hole at the bottom and a piezo electric element at the top to sputter liquid down. The tolerances are tight but considering how advanced manufacturing is, I would imagine someone competent could design and prototype it with the tools and manufacturing ecosystem that's available now. There's at least one project that has tried to design an actual DIY/open-source inkjet printer [0], along with inkjet print heads [1]. The ink most likely need some special sauce? But I imagine there's many organizations that can specialize in making the ink so that it can be treated close to a commodity. If not, maybe this can also be engineered? [0] https://hackaday.io/project/167446-diy-inkjet-printer https://hackaday.io/project/167446-diy-inkjet-printer [1] https://reprap.org/wiki/Reprappable-inkjet https://reprap.org/wiki/Reprappable-inkjet
  - dotancohen 3mo ago
    This printer uses HP 502 cartridges. Readily available, but don't expect to save on ink costs compared to a regular HP printer. They do claim that this printer will print in black when the colour cartridge is empty, which they imply is not possible with common printers. The only time I ever encountered that I simply removed the colour cartridge and the printer was happy to print in black.
- ACCount37 3mo ago
  The single hardest part is the print head. If you can reuse an existing one, and you can, then you're most of the way there. The paper path itself is mechanically involved, but not to an impossible degree - it's hard to make it work, but it's not MEMS magic, it's manufacturable in the same way advanced 3D printers are manufacturable.
  - beAbU 3mo ago
    Yet it's the paper handler that constantly jams and the printhead is fine after alignment.
- Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 3mo ago
  I mean, there's a video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XB7iAFXCJQM&t=17s&pp=2AERkAIB https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XB7iAFXCJQM&t=17s&pp=2AERkAIB Sure it could be fraud but it could also just work.
- londons_explore 3mo ago
  Looks like this printer uses HP 85 ink cartridges, so the hardest bits of the engineering are being bought in from HP. The rest of a printer aren't too hard to design and make, especially if you don't have super tight budget constraints.
  - pbhjpbhj 3mo ago
    Makes sense, presumably if the project is well enough supported then they can move on to cartridge/head production, or modify to use whatever heads are available. Out of ignorance, I wonder how IPR will work with interoperability rights. Patent rights seem like they might not be exhausted when you buy a spare part to use in third-party device, vs when you buy a spare part for an OEM device. I'm guessing all the tech here has aged out of patent protection though?
- ZiiS 3mo ago
  Generic inkjet cartridges (including the nozzles) and ink are readily available. The head movement and is easier then a 3d printer, the will be some learning's for the paper handling but seems very achievable to me.
- bryanrasmussen 3mo ago
  interesting that on the front page at this time is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48757900 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48757900 "The Age of Personalized Hardware Is Coming", which, it seems that it may be, but not for inkjet printers?
  - pbhjpbhj 3mo ago
    Is this not an example - they mention 3D printing of parts to customise for personal requirements? I like the wall mounted example with the output paper holder below. Neat.
    - bryanrasmussen 3mo ago
      yes but the parent commenter asserts that an open source inkjet will never happen which I take to mean that a customized inkjet is not happening either.
- f1shy 3mo ago
  Well, the same thinking was going on when Mr. Daniel Gelbart [0] started Creo. In all the videos I've seen from Gelbart, he always repeats that many things are being done wrong, he has some answers, but people keep copying bad design. Saying "no way you will succeed, is way too difficult! look how hard is it for HP" is absolute non-sense. Also, if the whole printing head is from HP, and they sell it for the price they do, I do not think is the most advanced science the mankind achieved. I would have such doubt maybe if somebody wants to compete with ASML. But Inkjet? really? such an old technology with all patents expired? [0] https://www.weizmann.ac.il/WeizmannCompass/sections/features/the-optimistic-inventor https://www.weizmann.ac.il/WeizmannCompass/sections/features...
- jelder 3mo ago
  Is laser printing more feasible? I've had the same Brother black & white laser for almost a decade and it's more than adequate for everything I do. If I ever need color, I send it off to a service that has much nicer printers than most people would ever want in their homes.
- wuschel 3mo ago
  I looked into hackable printers 10+ years ago when building a demonstrator prototype of a bioproduced ink dye. The key challenge challenges is that they are an integrated system between mechanical, electronical, and chemical (ink formulation, surface chemistry) domains. I would believe most relevant patents are now expired and that we should be able to build a printer that at least gives sufficient quality prints. Given sufficient motivation and time investment, that is.
logdahl 3mo ago
Would be interested in others take on this. Personally, I wonder: - By rolling the paper, will it really stay flat after printing? - How easy / cheap will sourcing ink be?
VorpalWay 3mo ago
This is interesting, but it seems to be a crowdfunding campaign only. I wish them the best of luck (the cause is worthy for sure), but buyer beware at this point. (I myself don't 2D print enough that an ink based printer makes sense for me. Ink tends to dry, so for me a laser printer that can sit for months at a time makes more sense. I use the scanner as well as my 3D printer far more often.) I wonder how they will handle the nonsense around yellow tracking dots[1] etc. Hopefully that doesn't become a problem. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots
- 15155 3mo ago
  > I wonder how they will handle the nonsense around yellow tracking dots[1] etc. Hopefully that doesn't become a problem. What's there to handle? They just don't include them and there's no statute that requires them to.
  - VorpalWay 3mo ago
    Hm, I guess there is no law. But why would so many manufacturers include this unless there is some legal reason or other pressure on them to do so?
    - attila-lendvai 3mo ago
      [flagged]
      - cwillu 3mo ago
        Thanks for letting us know, I guess?
      - flexagoon 3mo ago
        Unlike now, where instead of saying your hypothesis you're just letting every reader come up with what they think is a crazy conspiracy theory and ascribe it to you?
rubatuga 3mo ago
Isn't the paper feed the hardest part - the part that always gets jammed? I swear a paper roll is cheating.
- dofm 3mo ago
  It is cheating but it's very sensible cheating.
Muromec 3mo ago
Image loading is too fancy and went on a lunch break I think.
ktallett 3mo ago
It's such a good idea as a project and by the looks of things well executed. I also feel the style of the printer and the fact it can be a roll of paper will lead to interesting project ideas.
getcrunk 3mo ago
I mean it’s about time a company makes a repairable and pro consumer printer. My god
exmadscientist 3mo ago
I talked a bit about this years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37007815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37007815 TL;DR: I'm surprised this isn't a laser printer, as those are actually quite a bit easier to design and manufacture, especially if you can use a cheap, older, commonly available, remanufacturable toner cartridge.
- cwillu 3mo ago
  Inkjet cartridges often contain the print heads; toner cartridges still need a fuser roll and imaging head to do anything.
  - exmadscientist 3mo ago
    Part of my point is that making a print head driver is, in general, harder than making a laser imaging head. A lot harder. Of course the details of what specific parts are purchaseable on the open market can and will change this calculus a lot.
- SwellJoe 3mo ago
  There are still quality laser printers on the market without extortion and surveillance built-in, unlike inkjets. The need for an open laser printer is less dire than for an open inkjet.
  - myself248 3mo ago
    And not a single solid-ink-onto-paper sublimation printer, that I'm aware. There are badge printers still using a dye-sub ribbon, but the Tektronix Phaser, later the Xerox Phaser, is completely gone. I wonder why. Were the consumables too cheap and the printers too reliable to be commercially viable? Did color laser printers catch up in terms of print quality? Did it have some other fatal flaw?
    - OneDeuxTriSeiGo 3mo ago
      Hot melt ink/solid ink has a laundry list of problems that complicate it. - A single ink clog can destroy a printhead. - partial clogs can result in ugly messes with ink smeared all over the pages and the assembly further smearing on later prints. - the printer has to be calibrated to the specific formulation of solid ink to work properly. A bad ink batch or calibrating to the wrong formulation (or a drift in specs on the formulation) can cause clogs, print head failures, etc. - solid ink printing massively complicates lamination if that's something you need to do (ex in an office). Overall it's a far more unforgiving process. You can't really have aftermarket inks like you can with modern inks and even variations in the first party manufacturing process can have catastrophic effects on the print hardware.
ssddanbrown 3mo ago
> Open Printer is distributed under the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license. So not open source.
- einpoklum 3mo ago
  The license doesn't apply to the things you print with it. Are you miffed by the restriction on you selling derivative open printers?
  - cwillu 3mo ago
    Yes, because that's the thing that makes it open and able to survive the death or corruption of the entity holding the copyright.
    - culi 3mo ago
      The blueprint will be open source and you could technically build it yourself if you have the patience. They are quite proud of how few parts are actually involved in it
      - cwillu 3mo ago
        If it's CC-NC, it's not open source though, that's the point: a license that restricts fields of endeavor is not an open source license.
        culi 3mo ago
        I respect that point of view. But to me, it being easily hackable and lacking the surveillance features of all other modern printers[0] is still a strong selling point and I hope for the project to succeed. [0] https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-display-tracking-dots https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-d...
        cwillu 3mo ago
prrrrrint 3mo ago
Been waiting for framework to make a regular 2D printer, of any kind, would buy at least two instantly. I will never, never, never buy a fing printer from hp/canon/epson/brother/etc with anti-consumer tech, I rather die.
- ValdikSS 3mo ago
  Just buy used from this list https://notes.valdikss.org.ru/printers/#Cheap%20used%20laser%20printers%20list https://notes.valdikss.org.ru/printers/#Cheap%20used%20laser...
esskay 3mo ago
Unless I'm missing something using this in a commercial application would be a license violation: > Open Printer is distributed under the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license. > This means that everyone is free to use, share, and modify the project, provided they credit the original author, share derivatives under the same license, and do not use it for commercial purposes. It's also not opensource yet, there's a vague mention of "when its ready" it'll be released.
- SwellJoe 3mo ago
  What about that license makes you think you can't use the device (i.e. print things) for commercial purposes? The license applies to the thing, not the thing you print using the thing. Me writing software or prose on a computer running Linux using a GPL editor wouldn't change that the copyright of what I write belongs to me, the author. You can't make a commercial competitor of this printer using their design, but using the printer for its intended purpose (printing) is obviously unrelated to that.
  - avianlyric 3mo ago
    > You can't make a commercial competitor of this printer using their design Which means it's not open source. Open source means you have the right to distribute work however you want, including commercially, provided you also provide the source under the same license terms as the original. The second you slap a non-commercial limitation on there, it ceases to be open source.
    - stavros 3mo ago
      Of course it's not open source, there's no source to even be open or closed yet! It is Creative Commons, though, which is different.
      - cwillu 3mo ago
        It may be using a CC license, but nothing that's marked NC is meaningfully part of the commons. Yes, some guy can make a part to fix his printer, but that guy can't sell those parts to other people. The existence of a service manual doesn't mean you can get parts once the company disappears or loses interest.
ChrisArchitect 3mo ago
Please "repair" the title, maybe include OpenPrinter to start with, or solely. Some previous discussion on the crowdfunding: Inkjet printer with DRM-free ink will be launched via a crowdfunding campaign (2025) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45423404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45423404
jzer0cool 3mo ago
Can we expect photos to be looking nice?
einpoklum 3mo ago
This is just the thing I needed 30 years ago :-( To be less facetious though, this seems like a nice project (*), but I print so much less these days than in the past. I printed a lot of color stuff when I was in school; but these days I just settle for black/halftoning from a laser printer, for when I actually need something printed, and color on screen only. --- (*) - except perhaps for the NC restriction in the license.
williadc 3mo ago
I had an Epson Ecotank for a couple of years. The printer heads got clogged all the time. We bought a series of cleaning products to address it, they often solved the problem for only a few prints. We finally gave up and bought a Brother laser printer. This project seems like it's trying to address a similar market to the Ecotank. What assurances can the project team provide that OpenPrinter will have better reliability?
- slashdave 3mo ago
  Just bought a Brother ink tank printer (they have a whole line). Let's see how long it lasts.
  - KennyBlanken 3mo ago
    Thirteen models that all look nearly identical and a website that doesn't even remotely help you distinguish between them. I see the same people have been in charge of product design and marketing at Brother for the last twenty years...
    - deinonychus 3mo ago
      and the product browsing page crashes when i apply more than 2 filters or attempt to sort by price. half of the visible products are out of stock or no longer manufactured. really enjoyable experience.
- Gigachad 3mo ago
  If you print occasionally then laser is the best option. It's just not usable for photo printing. You ideally want to be using the printer every week or two with inkjet.
- cwillu 3mo ago
  It sounds like OpenPrinter will be using existing ink cartridges with the print heads built-in; I presume they will therefore have the same reliability.
- 3mo ago
tomkarho 3mo ago
Richard they did it. You can rest now.
- natebc 3mo ago
  close, but not quite. I suppose in the way that originally set him off, yes. It looks like they're using the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license so restricting commercial use which I think would run afoul of the purists definition of Freedom? It's a cool printer, and I'd much rather have something like this!
TeaVMFan 3mo ago
Title Typo? Reparaible to Repairable?
idorosen 3mo ago
I want to buy one of these just to support projects like it.
dinkleberg 3mo ago
I really love the idea of a paper roll rather than individual sheets. Being able to print out to the size you want rather than only in pre-set sizes is quite cool.
- agumonkey 3mo ago
  I do wonder if they print end of page lines for you to cut afterward (sorry couldn't read the whole webpage, maybe they explained it)
  - dymk 3mo ago
    Built in cutter
another-account 3mo ago
LASER
protocolture 3mo ago
How do they get a satan inside it, i thought demons were proprietary.
Natfan 3mo ago
how has no on mentioned the typo in the title s/Reparaible/Repairable
- Titan2189 3mo ago
  *no one
- stackghost 3mo ago
  >how has no on mentioned the typo in the title Perhaps because it's irrelevant [0]. >Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
s0a 3mo ago
just in time. this will certainly juice development of the equally important open source fax machine.
focusgroup0 3mo ago
[dead]
newman314 3mo ago
Seems interesting but I would like a laser version of this. Not ever going back to inkjet.
zerobees 3mo ago
I think the top-ranking comment about complexity is off base: they're not inventing inkjet printing from scratch. It's basically a bunch of existing modules in a new package, presumably with the promise that you will not need to buy subscriptions or DRMed ink cartridges. Is robustness and reparability a compelling pitch? If I'm counting right, I owned eight different printers in my life. Dot matrix, dye sublimation, inkjet, laser. I don't think a single one ever required any serious repairs beyond replacing consumables, clearing paper jams, and pulling out lint. I upgraded as the technology improved. My first laser printer needed about 4x as much desk space as the current one.
- znhll 3mo ago
  > I don't think a single one ever required any serious repairs beyond replacing consumables I think your experience has been an outlier. I've had several printers from different brands also, and have had some that last a long time, and still print with decent quality even with off-brand ink/toner. However, quite a lot have also failed due to bad capacitors, bad power modules, or the printer or it's firmware just refused to work/print for whatever reason and the manufacturer response was: "buy a new one." There's definitely planned obsolescence built into these machines, and that's why people dislike them, aside from the fact they can be a pain to configure. That's in addition to the ink DRM and other shitty cartel like bs from printer manufacturers.
  - abustamam 3mo ago
    I owned a Brother inkjet for some time. I'd print maybe a few times a year. But it seemed like every time I needed to print, the printer was out of ink. Granted I used an ink service (ie not official brother ink) but still where the heck was the ink going? I've since switched to a Brother LaserJet and I'm still on the starter toner after a couple of years.
    - Gigachad 3mo ago
      An inkjet printer has to be used at least monthly if not more often. If you left it plugged in, the printer was likely squirting ink in to a waste tank to prevent the nozzles from drying out and ruining the printer. Laser toner can sit unused without drying out (it's dry powder already).
golem14 3mo ago
I was hoping to see a printer that say a prepper could build from scratch. This design 100% depends on commercial print cartridges containing the actual print-head. Once that clogs, you need to get another one, good luck getting one once production has stopped. Also, if you wanted to avoid yellow dots, not sure if this is built into the cartridge or the firmware of the rest of the printer. Now, I understand that would be hard to pull off. Maybe one could build a deskjet500 equivalent one. Laser printers are quite complex as well, you need too many non-easy to build from scratch parts. Maybe a dot matrix printer is possible. I know for sure you can retrofit older electric typewriters, and those are pretty repairable.
- numpad0 3mo ago
  I had thought about a post-apocalyptic prepper printer once, my conclusion was that you can just have a fax machine and a laptop. They're considered thoroughly obsolete, and almost free to take in used markets as well.
  - golem14 3mo ago
    Yeah, Building a thermoprinter is probably doable, and making thermopaper seems plausible as well
- a96 3mo ago
  "From scratch", ie raw materials only, probably limits the results to plotters until you've bootstrapped some presicion machinery. And electronics. How many parts you're allowed is going to be an arbitrary choice anyway. But the heads being disposable and one day unavailable is kind of a valid concern if a new source doesn't eventually turn up.
mrsssnake 3mo ago
Does "open source" even mean something anymore, or should we give up and just accept it as common catch-all phrase for everything that suck less, without one definition? Open source AI without a source. Open source software, oh but only up to 4000 users after two years of release for people on south hemisphere. Now open source hardware but your copies of design are for noncommercial use, only our copies are not restriced.
- tokai 3mo ago
  Open source was always a ploy to water down libre/free.
- dofm 3mo ago
  If they don't do this (noncommercial, patent), the lesson is that a succession of Chinese vendors will take it and perhaps even secure patents on top of their work. They want time to finish it their way.
  - mrsssnake 3mo ago
    My point is not whenever this is good or bad, hardware tools cannot by nature be self-replicated like software tools, but they should not call it open source.
ftchd 3mo ago
For some reason the 8 image grid only loads the first image, maybe there's no images to load?
- system2 3mo ago
  Also the videos are choppy gifs, not working machine at this point I guess.
Fnoord 3mo ago
Hanging it on a wall like that would be great in say a tiny house / limited space. But what about dust entry? I got cats.
bArray 3mo ago
> With Openprinter, you are free to choose between standard sheets or a roll of versatile paper. A few other comments have concentrated on the printer head and ink cartridge, but the roll vs sheets interests me. Manipulating sheets of paper is actually quite a difficult problem to solve - and there is only a demonstration of paper placement. Loading page after page is actually really not easy at all. There is no example of it printing. I see they got a nomination for a design award [1], which in my personal experience has been a negative signal for successful projects. On the same page they mention that they also mention that they don't even know how much this will cost yet: > We know this is your most frequently asked question! Final pricing depends on a moving puzzle of production volumes, BoM costs, industrialization expenses, regulatory certifications, and final engineering developments. On the crowd funding page it mentions for parts [2]: > Main board: Raspberry Pi Zero W > Cartridge board: STM32 MCU Not a specific MCU variant, and the specifics of the Pi variant (i.e. RAM) are not mentioned. I would expect these parts would be locked in by now. I have a feeling that this is not quite as ready as made out - I think there is still R&D going on. [1] https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer/updates/progress-update-and-details-about-our-nomination-for-a-french-design-award https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer/updates/... [2] https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer
- igoose1 3mo ago
  > specifics of the Pi variant (i.e. RAM) are not mentioned I agree with the rest but Pi Zero W is a specific machine with 512 MB RAM: https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-zero-w/ https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-zero-w/ It's also the one everyone can buy online for $19, not Pi Zero 2 W (always out of stock)
  - bArray 3mo ago
    > I agree with the rest but Pi Zero W is a specific machine with 512 MB RAM: I thought they came in different variants - my meat-based LLM must have hallucinated it. > It's also the one everyone can buy online for $19, not Pi Zero 2 W (always out of stock) I get the impression that they don't actively manufacture Pi Zero W anymore and it's all old stock. Rapid for example say they have an availability of 761 (at time of writing) [1], but are those all within Rapid's control, or what is reported at Raspberry Pi's remaining stock? If you sell 1k printer units, can you put a Pi Zero W in all of them? Compute modules are probably a bit more reliable and there is some capability with other modules, specifically the DDR2 form factor ones [2] (which is my favorite form factor). For example, ClockWork sold their own compatible compute modules [3]. [1] https://www.rapidonline.com/raspberry-pi-sc0020-zero-w-single-board-computer-1ghz-bcm2835-32-bit-soc-75-2238 https://www.rapidonline.com/raspberry-pi-sc0020-zero-w-singl... [2] https://www.rapidonline.com/raspberry-pi-compute-module-cm3-1gb-ram-0gb-lite-ddr2-so-dimm-75-0643 https://www.rapidonline.com/raspberry-pi-compute-module-cm3-... [3] https://www.clockworkpi.com/shop https://www.clockworkpi.com/shop
baddash 3mo ago
is it better than a Brother printer, cause i've had one for like a decade and it's the shit
delfugal 3mo ago
Does HP make money on printer sales? Ink is cash cow.
klysm 3mo ago
I’ll believe this when I see it on GitHub - rooting for them
SigmundurM 3mo ago
Unfortunate they rely on HP cartridges. HP is a priority BDS target: https://bdsmovement.net/boycott-hp https://bdsmovement.net/boycott-hp
- Gigachad 3mo ago
  This feels like a bit of a "you must exist in society" situation. If you rule out every company that does any business with Israel you will have a hard time buying anything.
  - Aachen 3mo ago
    First time I'm hearing of BDS. Looks like they want to boycott companies that help oppress Palestine (just going off of their homepage here). Since I don't know them, I'll speak generally of boycotts such as against e.g. Nestlé: Saying it's futile because you can't do it perfectly seems silly to me. You can't do everything right in life but you can try right? Minimise harm (as you see it) even if you can't take it away fully
    - Gigachad 3mo ago
      The suggestion here is to boycott a printer because it uses a print head part from HP who sells servers to Israel. The number of steps here is enough that you could rule out everything. And anything you think is left is just something you aren’t aware of a chain that links them.
- magic_hamster 3mo ago
  Unfortunately people still think BDS is relevant in any way.
utopiah 3mo ago
I follow this project thanks to CrowdSupply from which I regularly buy open hardware. Honestly I'm torn on this one. I will probably buy it but from a purely philosophical standpoint. Why? Well I do have a black & white HP laser printer that I've been using with my Linux devices for years now. It just works. There are a lot of terrible printers out there with wacky firmwares pinging home to their manufacturers. Some require ink with DRM, some companion apps, etc. But... and that's my main point, are just basic printers that work anywhere with anything. There are quite a few to the point that among peripheral printers might be one of the safest one can safely "yeah it will probably work with open system no problem" relatively confidently (still do check first). So... yeah it's cool but in terms of openness of our entire IT ecosystem printing doesn't appear to me as the priority gap to fill. Cool project anyway!
- VladVladikoff 3mo ago
  What if I want a printer that won’t print traceable dots on everything I print?
  - tonyedgecombe 3mo ago
    Use a monochrome laser printer for your ransom notes.
    - VladVladikoff 3mo ago
      In all honesty for years I had one in my small home office, and every time I printed something I could smell it in the room afterwards for an hour, sometimes even getting headaches from this. Switched to inkjet a few years ago and will never look back.
      - ssl-3 3mo ago
        What was the printer? I haven't experienced the odor of ozone when printing at home since my HP Laserjet 4 died from water damage 18 years ago. My current Brother laser printer (an MFC-2750DW, IIRC) is so non-stinky that I haven't thought about for a very long time.
ConanRus 3mo ago
[dead]
tupacshakur 3mo ago
deleted
abetusk 3mo ago
From their FAQ: > Open Printer is distributed under the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license. The non-commercial clause makes it non-open by the commonly accepted term of "open" in this context.
Alien1Being 3mo ago
Laser printers are so much more economical. I use Brother black and white laser printer with after market toner cartridges from eBay . Print around 200 pages a day. Around 5000 pages for 37 AUD ie around 25 USD. The paper costs more per page than the toner. Just make sure you stay away from HP branded printers...
- keithnz 3mo ago
  yeah, I have a cheap brother laser printer, I don't print that much, but it's been solid for several years. I did have an HP, but it was incredibly problematic, would jam rather easily. Works fine under linux as well.
  - jeffhuys 3mo ago
    Does the ink ever dry? That’s my biggest problem with non-lasers - I print maybe 10-100 pages a year but every time I need to change the toner because it’s too dry. And do you print color or no?
    - fsuts 3mo ago
      No doesn’t dry up. It’s why I change from inkjet. And yes they print colour too. They are fine for documents but if you want details photo printing then inkjet I think has an edge, but for most people laser is better choice.
      - keithnz 3mo ago
        I feel like for photos you are better off getting them done via a print service anyways, they are pretty cheap and have much better hardware
- jsilence 3mo ago
  Or get a good old LaserJet 4050 used somewhere. Indestructible workhorse.
_giorgio_ 3mo ago
HP will simply prevent them from buying their head + cartridge bundle. By legal or by controlling more strictly bulk purchases of replacement parts.
- jeroenhd 3mo ago
  I don't think they need to ship the cartridges themselves. Customers can just go to any store selling printer ink and get the cartridges. It's a bit steep to also need to buy the money-making product HP wants to earn on, but you can just refill them with cheap ink when they're empty so it's not as big an issue in the long term. HP could stop selling ink cartridges to stores, but they'd be shooting themselves in the foot as well.
RobotToaster 3mo ago
> Open Printer is distributed under the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license. Non commercial licences are not open source. https://community.oscedays.org/t/why-are-non-commercial-licenses-not-open-source/569 https://community.oscedays.org/t/why-are-non-commercial-lice...
victor22 3mo ago
I'll believe it when I see it
magic_hamster 3mo ago
Isn't this hilarious: > A patent as well as a design and model registration have been made to protect the technical architecture and design of Openprinter. So, open as in OpenAI.
purpleidea 3mo ago
When this is a good quality Laser printer let me know. Nobody really wants inkjet that's not for high end photo printing.
nokeya 3mo ago
And then government will declare this printer illegal because of no yellow dots.
- foxrider 3mo ago
  Good thing they're not selling a printer then, they're selling a parts kit that you have to flash an open source controller firmware to and assemble yourself. Or you may just source them in any way you want. You can't really "outlaw" open source, we had this whole song and dance with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th...
roysting 3mo ago
How would they control the printed paper curling?
finecode 3mo ago
[flagged]
karteum 3mo ago
2 questions : * How can it can do 2-side printing ? (on a normal printer, you may print all the odd pages, turn the whole thing, and print all the even pages) * Won't the cutter experience some wear ?
- f1shy 3mo ago
  1) Accepts also normal A4 paper according to specs 2) Yes, sure.
swiftcoder 3mo ago
I don't get why this isn't an ink tank printer. Yes, those HP cartridges are technically refillable, but the printheads tend to clog up after a few refills, and then you are stuck paying retail for another cartridge. It would be a lot more aspirational to figure out how to build a tank-based printer (although maybe its not possible to compete with the incumbents on price in this space)
- cryo32 3mo ago
  I suspect the hard bit is the print head. So they’re just buying that in.
- jeroenhd 3mo ago
  Printheads are nanotechnology with extreme precision requirements. The rest of the printer is a few well-timed stepper motors, simple in comparison. HP cartridges including the printheads will take a lot of complexity away from the open design. In theory you could probably modify one of these by grabbing an HP cartridge and slapping an ink tank on top with the right sponge for transferring the ink over. Selling parts from HP printer cartridges might creep a little too close to HP's patent lawyers, though, and having users open cartridges to extract the print heads themselves sounds like a messy solution that would reduce the appeal. I'm sure that given time, someone will 3D print an ink tank holder that will let you use cheap ink supplies through the expensive HP cartridges.
  - whyoh 3mo ago
    >HP cartridges including the printheads will take a lot of complexity away from the open design. Yes, but it also means it won't be cheaper or more reliable than a regular printer. The print head is what fails most often and you'll still have to buy a new one.
    - dymk 3mo ago
      Aftermarket ink cartridges that are HP compatible are quite cheap compared to brand name
_ink_ 3mo ago
My experience with ink jet was, that the printheads clog up because I use it too rarely. So I like the idea, but it probably has the same problem.
krick 3mo ago
This is all great, but, really, "Open" in "Openprinter" is enough of a sales pitch, because we all know what's the problem with all other printers. I don't need to scroll through all these pretty pictures of hands and tables to get me ready to hear the main thing. Even if I am ready to believe that you can deliver (which is a big if), the only things I am interested in are "how much" and "when do you promise it". And when I scroll all the way through and click on crowdfunding link, it turns out that "This project is launching soon". What's even the point of this landing page in this state?
mbb70 3mo ago
u7à
phkahler 3mo ago
If the ink is refillable due to lack of DRM, why not just buy a commercial printer that supports those cartridges?
vaylian 3mo ago
Probably a stupid question: But where do you get (refillable) ink for this printer from?
- mminer237 3mo ago
  You can buy bottles of ink on Amazon. Tank printers, jerryrigging, and people refilling cartridges have all been decently common for a long time, so there are plenty of random companies selling it.
nickpinkston 3mo ago
This is really cool and I want one, but please someone tell them to put a clear CTA button above the fold saying "Pre-Order" or something. Also, the bottom spinning button CTA doesn't read like a CTA to me. My skimming eyes almost missed, but YMMV. Other than that - awesome project and godspeed OpenPrinter team!
tracker1 3mo ago
Cool, unless you sometimes go weeks or a couple months without printing and everything gums up... I've never seen an ink printer that doesn't. I tend to favor laser, only because I can go months without printing and then fire off a print job, and it comes out without issue. The continuous feed is nice though... I can see this used for banners like in the old sheet fed dot-matrix days... Print Shop Pro FTW!

1156 points by bouh 3mo ago

[dead]

Interesting comment from last time this was posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48093670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48093670 Inkjet printing requires orders of magnitude more engineering expertise, materials science, industry experience and financial resources than most people imagine. That is the reason, open inkjet printers don't exist despite having been consumer products with the same drawbacks for more than forty years. That is why this is a pre-crowdfund landing page without a demonstrating a working prototype. I would like to be wrong, but I expect you to be waiting a long time. An inkjet printer is not a collection of off the shelf parts. It is a machine that operates at the edge of chemistry, fluid dynamics, and electro-mechanical design...you have to place tiny tiny drops of liquid ink on commodity wood pulp with precision under arbitrary environmental conditions, get that ink to dry on the wood pulp, but not in tank or nozzel, while producing acceptable color, durability, and ease of use. Also lawyers...there are patents.

rubidium 3mo ago
99% of this is the printhead and the ink formulation. Assuming you use generic off the shelf solutions for those two components you’re set. All the printer companies do their lock in at the firmware and software layer.
- hn_throwaway_99 3mo ago
  Yeah, I found that original comment to be a bit nonsensical. It would be like arguing you can't build your own PC because the lithography tech needed to make modern ICs is really complicated. I wasn't planning a laying out my own chip, and these guys aren't planning on building their own printhead from scratch.
  - jnaina 3mo ago
    yes, I was about to build another gaming PC, and then I remembered the ASML machine costs 20 bajillion. Will wait for the ASML machine to come down in price, to around couple of grand.
    - bluGill 3mo ago
      You don't need ASML machines. There are labs all over that can build chips. I know of one near me that has a license to make the Pentium I chip (or possibly a similar chip - the exact chips classified, but I know can make the electronics for the Tomahawk missile thus ensuring that in case of war there is supply chain redundancy) - they need to get $30,000 each for them just to break even on labor costs since they don't have mass production. Which is to say you can make your gaming PC at home as a one-off if you want. Though personally I won't get near the toxic chemicals used.
  - imtringued 3mo ago
    There's also the long term strategy where if they can sell enough printers, they may at some point in the future do get the budget needed to make their own print head. It's not like printers were invented in 2026.
- dotancohen 3mo ago
  At the 2400 DPI that an HP printer can handle, the printer needs to place the head at 1/100 mm precision three times for every single dot on the page, and not smear them, despite not knowing what thickness or weight or finish the paper has. That is not trivial.
  - a96 3mo ago
    2400 dpi is not the bar for entry, though. Even 240 would qualify as a printer, albeit not a good one (SOTA in 1995 maybe).
    - dotancohen 3mo ago
      I respectfully disagree. For all the use cases shown on the linked page, a 240 DPI printer would not be acceptable.
      - a96 3mo ago
        Yes. There's the obvious difference of "it's a working printer" and desirable and useful product. You don't need to be state of the art to be in the first category was my thought.
drum55 3mo ago
That's why this is just using off the shelf cartridges with commercial heads.
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
- jboy55 3mo ago
  Which is why its more surprising this was first announced last year and there's no Proof of Concept demo yet? But really, I've given up on ink jet printers, and have gone the cheap B&W laser route for anything I need to print at home (In the past year, 2 times, a backup ticket and some paperwork that needed a real signature sent back). But when I had them, the thing that went bad 99.999% of the time was the cartridges or a clogged nozzle on the head. So the advantage here, on the repairability side not DRM, is the rails and motors? Also that cutter is going to be a pain, having worked on Lightjet printers, that cutter was nearly all field service issues until the FEs started leaving the "laser" key so lab managers could reset the blade themselves.
  - pbhjpbhj 3mo ago
    Re PoC, they have a YouTube video showing black and white printing and paper cutting on the Crowd Supply page, https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer/updates/progress-update-and-details-about-our-nomination-for-a-french-design-award https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer/updates/....
amenghra 3mo ago
An open source all-in-one-printer would be a great device to have. For eg I would love to have the scanner include a camera. So I can get “instant scans” most of the time, and a higher res scan when needed. Maybe the camera could also notice when the person making copies or scans forgot their original and ping them?
- sunshinesnacks 3mo ago
  The required super wide field of view for the camera could be tricky, without making the box really deep. Or am I not thinking about it right?
  - nerdsniper 3mo ago
    You'd probably need some basic custom lens (not crazy $$) that would distort the heck out of the image, but you could correct the shape in software. Given that GP wanted this to be the "low quality / high speed" secondary scanning option, the inevitable loss of quality would be acceptable. Seeing chromatic aberration on a document scan would be strange, but this is basically how many document scans are created today (using phone camera + software correction). It's just the lens effects from this cheap lens would be a lot worse than what Apple/Samsung/Google can do with their super expensive to design custom lens stacks.
    - KennyBlanken 3mo ago
      That's pointless when ADF scanners will do a dual-side scan, at around 2-3 seconds per page, and more importantly, can do so with a stack of pages. They've been around long enough that you can find them all over the place used for quite cheap and they likely only need a cleaning.
tjohns 3mo ago
On the technology side, I'm somewhat hopeful because it looks like they're using off-the-shelf HP ink cartridges for this. HP cartridges embed the printhead into the cartridge itself, and that printhead is arguably the most complicated part of the entire device. Outsource the printhead, and you're just designing a plotter with a PCL interface. I agree that the bigger challenge is going to be patents. It also wouldn't surprise me to see HP add DRM to cartridges to authenticate the printer itself if this catches on. (Possibly requiring a printer driver/firmware update.)
- pbronez 3mo ago
  I don’t see why HP would want to do that. They have huge margins on ink, right? I’m sure the increase in cartridge sales would offset lost subscription revenue from useless cloud services, if only because the people who are gonna use an open source printer would never pay for that anyway.
  - ldoughty 3mo ago
    Looks like the intended use case here is you buy the cartridge once, and refill it, and OpenPrinter won't lock you out after doing so like HP does.
    - labcomputer 3mo ago
      Yea, but then the print head clogs up after the second time you refill it and you buy another expensive print head + ink from HP. Frankly, I think 99% of the reason they started integrating the print head with the cartridge was to avoid all the problems you so frequently see on printers that don’t use disposable heads.
      - deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
  - taneq 3mo ago
    Yeah, if you’re buying the ink they would be happy, I’d think. The ideal razor-and-blades business model!
zczc 3mo ago
From the specs: Compatible cartridges HP 63 and HP 63 XL (US) HP 302 and HP 302 XL (Europe) HP 803 and HP 803 XL (Asia) So they just use HP inkjet technology. That makes it less open-source, but even "open source" parts are going to be under non-commercial license (CC BY-NC-SA) anyway.
- phoronixrly 3mo ago
  > even "open source" parts are going to be under non-commercial license (CC BY-NC-SA) anyway You're saying this as if it is a bad thing? I absolutely welcome this decision by the authors!
  - lima 3mo ago
    Non commercial licenses are not generally considered open source
    - worik 3mo ago
      Yes But how important?
      - __float 3mo ago
        If it is not an open source license, you should not call it open source. Imagine someone saying the same thing about MongoDB's license, for example.
        Sankozi 3mo ago
        Is there a Linux server run on fully open source hardware (what would that mean btw?)? Should we stop using "open source" because almost all computers are not fully open source?
        sehansen 3mo ago
        Quite a lot of open source hardware is licensed under the BY-SA Creative Commons license which is an actual open source license. E.g. the Arduinos and things like the Milkymist One which can actually run linux.
amelius 3mo ago
It really makes more sense to just buy a laser printer, in almost all cases.
- ocdtrekkie 3mo ago
  Yeah conceptually this excites me but I decided color printing wasn't worth it at home years ago and haven't regretted it.
  - taneq 3mo ago
    A colour laser A4 multifunction is only a few hundred bucks these days, five years ago I’d have agreed with you but it might be worth re-evaluating.
    - happymellon 3mo ago
      I've reevaluated. Still not worth it. My Brother is hitting 10 years now, and I'm trying to think of many scenarios where I really needed to print colour at home.
      - cromka 3mo ago
        I don't think this was a mono vs color argument but rather ink color vs laser color.
        imtringued 3mo ago
        If you go with a laser color printer you will have to buy four toners instead of one.
        happymellon 3mo ago
        Gggp post said they were just sticking with b+w laser, and gp post suggested a colour laser.
      - taneq 3mo ago
NooneAtAll3 3mo ago
isn't inkjet an outdated tech by now?
- loloquwowndueo 3mo ago
  How so?
  - NooneAtAll3 3mo ago
    laser printers are cheap and don't need catriges
    - d3Xt3r 3mo ago
      Color laser printers (MFPs with ADFs to be exact) aren't exactly cheap. Last I checked they were 2-3x more expensive than equivalent inkjets, and occupied a lot of space too.
      - NooneAtAll3 3mo ago
        > and occupied a lot of space too. all printers are the size of microwave. Inkjets aren't any smaller > MFPs with ADFs to be exact at that point you're talking about a full-on office appliance and far above DIY repair scale the discussion is about
        d3Xt3r 3mo ago
        My Brother inkjet with an ADF is smaller than a microwave and super cheap. Not something you'd ever see in a typical office. If I could buy a color laser printer with similar features, dimensions and price, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
    - loloquwowndueo 3mo ago
      How do laser printers not need cartridges? I own two, mind you.
- 3mo ago
infl8ed 3mo ago
I noticed that previous post is from a couple of months ago, and it looks like about a week ago they posted a project update and they claim for their current prototype: "We are successfully printing in both black and full color." https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer/updates/progress-update-and-details-about-our-nomination-for-a-french-design-award https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer/updates/... Of course I have no way of verifying either way. Still I do think the project looks quite interesting, I'm in the market for a printer and this is certainly the most interesting one I've seen in a while.
- Doxin 3mo ago
  There's a video of the prototype printing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB7iAFXCJQM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB7iAFXCJQM
WhyNotHugo 3mo ago
I have enormous respect for dot matrix printers. They're easy to repair and service, the tech is relatively simple, it's cheap, it's parts are cheap, its supplies are cheap. It's way more sustainable than any other printer: both the printer itself in its manufacturing and the ribbons themselves. The waste they produce is also much less polluting than any other printer.
- hn_throwaway_99 3mo ago
  They also kind of suck. I'm not one for "the latest and greatest", but their output quality is atrocious compared to modern printers, they're loud AF, and I'm guessing it may have existed but I never saw a dot matrix that didn't have the perforated edge for feeding.
  - taneq 3mo ago
    I think that’s a product of their time rather than the dot matrix tech itself. Paper feeding is hard. Tractor strips made it easier.
    - dragontamer 3mo ago
      Dot Matrix are still used in outdoor / high humidity environments in USA. A lot of car shops with regular 100% humidity conditions will swear by dot matrix + tractor for feeding paper + printing. Plus, the carbon copy forms are guaranteed to be exact carbon copies which also leads to legal guarantees about copies of paper being provably exactly the same in the court of law.
    - bitwize 3mo ago
      Pen plotters could accept sheets of A4 and very precisely position them since at least the 80s. I'm surprised that dot-matrix printers didn't adopt similar technologies sooner, though it could be because by the mid-80s dot-matrix printers were the budget option, fanfold paper with the tractor strips was still abundant, and it was much easier to just stick with the cheaply manufacturable technologies rather than take the risk of innovation with a product that wouldn't sell upmarket anyway.
poulpy123 3mo ago
The second part is verbose but say absolutely nothing of the difficulty and issues. It could be applied to anything, even cooking a steak
GuB-42 3mo ago
Try to find an typical consumer inkjet printer on AliExpress, you won't find any, or if you do, it will be someone reselling the usual brands like HP or Canon. You will find label printers, industrial printers, 3D printers, thermal printers, and all sorts of weird stuff, but none of them able to put ink on a stack of A4 paper. If the Chinese, who are known for being able to make knockoffs of everything are not able to make inkjet printers, this should tell you how hard it is. It addition to the print head, reliable paper transport is also really hard. That problem is often sidestepped by using a paper roll or by printing one sheet at a time, as it is the case for the Openprinter.
- ____tom____ 3mo ago
  No. Per Google, most HP printers are made in China. A more likely explanation has to do with the economics of ink jet printers. The ink sales are so profitable that HP and other manufacturers subsidize their printers. This leads to prices at or near cost. Since Ali express vendors can't count on follow on ink sales, they can't compete on price. And competing on price is Ali express's reason for existence. So, ink jet printer are harder to find on Ali express. At least, low end consumer focused ink jet printers. Laser printers, which aren't subsidized are common
- ValdikSS 3mo ago
  Several Chinese companies have their own domestic laser printers, claiming of in-house components and development (Cumtenn, ZoneWin), and one company does inkjet printers in addition to lasers (Deli Printer). https://www.delioa.com/products/a4-inkjet-printer/ https://www.delioa.com/products/a4-inkjet-printer/ ZoneWin, a laser printer company, made a clone of both HP LaserJet 1020 and LaserJet M1005, which reuse most of the original/compatible parts (Q2612A cartridge). They claim it's 100% domestic parts only. https://www.rtmworld.com/news/new-chinese-made-printer-uses-hp-cartridges/ https://www.rtmworld.com/news/new-chinese-made-printer-uses-...
alden5 3mo ago
The fact the campaign is run on crowdsupply makes me a lot more hopeful it'll get to market vs a site like kickstarter. Crowdsupply requires a working prototype before launching and they provide all the expertise to actually get projects to market, off the top of my head I don't believe any crowdsupply project has failed to deliver.
- skimmed_milk 3mo ago
  Eoma68 did, https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop I never got mine at least.
etdznots 3mo ago
Lol then 3D printing must be space technology that only the most advanced materials labs in the world can achieve, yeah inkjet is not simple, but it’s also not magic,
- Double_a_92 3mo ago
  The issue is mainly the nozzle. Ironically 3D printers are a lot easier there, since you just need to melt a thick wire, and not worry about microscopically small droplets.
abetusk 3mo ago
I certainly don't have deep knowledge in this area but my understanding is that the cartridge is basically a cavity with a small hole at the bottom and a piezo electric element at the top to sputter liquid down. The tolerances are tight but considering how advanced manufacturing is, I would imagine someone competent could design and prototype it with the tools and manufacturing ecosystem that's available now. There's at least one project that has tried to design an actual DIY/open-source inkjet printer [0], along with inkjet print heads [1]. The ink most likely need some special sauce? But I imagine there's many organizations that can specialize in making the ink so that it can be treated close to a commodity. If not, maybe this can also be engineered? [0] https://hackaday.io/project/167446-diy-inkjet-printer https://hackaday.io/project/167446-diy-inkjet-printer [1] https://reprap.org/wiki/Reprappable-inkjet https://reprap.org/wiki/Reprappable-inkjet
- dotancohen 3mo ago
  This printer uses HP 502 cartridges. Readily available, but don't expect to save on ink costs compared to a regular HP printer. They do claim that this printer will print in black when the colour cartridge is empty, which they imply is not possible with common printers. The only time I ever encountered that I simply removed the colour cartridge and the printer was happy to print in black.
ACCount37 3mo ago
The single hardest part is the print head. If you can reuse an existing one, and you can, then you're most of the way there. The paper path itself is mechanically involved, but not to an impossible degree - it's hard to make it work, but it's not MEMS magic, it's manufacturable in the same way advanced 3D printers are manufacturable.
- beAbU 3mo ago
  Yet it's the paper handler that constantly jams and the printhead is fine after alignment.
Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 3mo ago
I mean, there's a video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XB7iAFXCJQM&t=17s&pp=2AERkAIB https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XB7iAFXCJQM&t=17s&pp=2AERkAIB Sure it could be fraud but it could also just work.
londons_explore 3mo ago
Looks like this printer uses HP 85 ink cartridges, so the hardest bits of the engineering are being bought in from HP. The rest of a printer aren't too hard to design and make, especially if you don't have super tight budget constraints.
- pbhjpbhj 3mo ago
  Makes sense, presumably if the project is well enough supported then they can move on to cartridge/head production, or modify to use whatever heads are available. Out of ignorance, I wonder how IPR will work with interoperability rights. Patent rights seem like they might not be exhausted when you buy a spare part to use in third-party device, vs when you buy a spare part for an OEM device. I'm guessing all the tech here has aged out of patent protection though?
ZiiS 3mo ago
Generic inkjet cartridges (including the nozzles) and ink are readily available. The head movement and is easier then a 3d printer, the will be some learning's for the paper handling but seems very achievable to me.
bryanrasmussen 3mo ago
interesting that on the front page at this time is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48757900 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48757900 "The Age of Personalized Hardware Is Coming", which, it seems that it may be, but not for inkjet printers?
- pbhjpbhj 3mo ago
  Is this not an example - they mention 3D printing of parts to customise for personal requirements? I like the wall mounted example with the output paper holder below. Neat.
  - bryanrasmussen 3mo ago
    yes but the parent commenter asserts that an open source inkjet will never happen which I take to mean that a customized inkjet is not happening either.
f1shy 3mo ago
Well, the same thinking was going on when Mr. Daniel Gelbart [0] started Creo. In all the videos I've seen from Gelbart, he always repeats that many things are being done wrong, he has some answers, but people keep copying bad design. Saying "no way you will succeed, is way too difficult! look how hard is it for HP" is absolute non-sense. Also, if the whole printing head is from HP, and they sell it for the price they do, I do not think is the most advanced science the mankind achieved. I would have such doubt maybe if somebody wants to compete with ASML. But Inkjet? really? such an old technology with all patents expired? [0] https://www.weizmann.ac.il/WeizmannCompass/sections/features/the-optimistic-inventor https://www.weizmann.ac.il/WeizmannCompass/sections/features...
jelder 3mo ago
Is laser printing more feasible? I've had the same Brother black & white laser for almost a decade and it's more than adequate for everything I do. If I ever need color, I send it off to a service that has much nicer printers than most people would ever want in their homes.
wuschel 3mo ago
I looked into hackable printers 10+ years ago when building a demonstrator prototype of a bioproduced ink dye. The key challenge challenges is that they are an integrated system between mechanical, electronical, and chemical (ink formulation, surface chemistry) domains. I would believe most relevant patents are now expired and that we should be able to build a printer that at least gives sufficient quality prints. Given sufficient motivation and time investment, that is.

logdahl 3mo ago

Would be interested in others take on this. Personally, I wonder: - By rolling the paper, will it really stay flat after printing? - How easy / cheap will sourcing ink be?

VorpalWay 3mo ago

This is interesting, but it seems to be a crowdfunding campaign only. I wish them the best of luck (the cause is worthy for sure), but buyer beware at this point. (I myself don't 2D print enough that an ink based printer makes sense for me. Ink tends to dry, so for me a laser printer that can sit for months at a time makes more sense. I use the scanner as well as my 3D printer far more often.) I wonder how they will handle the nonsense around yellow tracking dots[1] etc. Hopefully that doesn't become a problem. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_tracking_dots

15155 3mo ago
> I wonder how they will handle the nonsense around yellow tracking dots[1] etc. Hopefully that doesn't become a problem. What's there to handle? They just don't include them and there's no statute that requires them to.
- VorpalWay 3mo ago
  Hm, I guess there is no law. But why would so many manufacturers include this unless there is some legal reason or other pressure on them to do so?
  - attila-lendvai 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - cwillu 3mo ago
      Thanks for letting us know, I guess?
    - flexagoon 3mo ago
      Unlike now, where instead of saying your hypothesis you're just letting every reader come up with what they think is a crazy conspiracy theory and ascribe it to you?

rubatuga 3mo ago

Isn't the paper feed the hardest part - the part that always gets jammed? I swear a paper roll is cheating.

dofm 3mo ago
It is cheating but it's very sensible cheating.

Muromec 3mo ago

Image loading is too fancy and went on a lunch break I think.

ktallett 3mo ago

It's such a good idea as a project and by the looks of things well executed. I also feel the style of the printer and the fact it can be a roll of paper will lead to interesting project ideas.

getcrunk 3mo ago

I mean it’s about time a company makes a repairable and pro consumer printer. My god

exmadscientist 3mo ago

I talked a bit about this years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37007815 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37007815 TL;DR: I'm surprised this isn't a laser printer, as those are actually quite a bit easier to design and manufacture, especially if you can use a cheap, older, commonly available, remanufacturable toner cartridge.

cwillu 3mo ago
Inkjet cartridges often contain the print heads; toner cartridges still need a fuser roll and imaging head to do anything.
- exmadscientist 3mo ago
  Part of my point is that making a print head driver is, in general, harder than making a laser imaging head. A lot harder. Of course the details of what specific parts are purchaseable on the open market can and will change this calculus a lot.
SwellJoe 3mo ago
There are still quality laser printers on the market without extortion and surveillance built-in, unlike inkjets. The need for an open laser printer is less dire than for an open inkjet.
- myself248 3mo ago
  And not a single solid-ink-onto-paper sublimation printer, that I'm aware. There are badge printers still using a dye-sub ribbon, but the Tektronix Phaser, later the Xerox Phaser, is completely gone. I wonder why. Were the consumables too cheap and the printers too reliable to be commercially viable? Did color laser printers catch up in terms of print quality? Did it have some other fatal flaw?
  - OneDeuxTriSeiGo 3mo ago
    Hot melt ink/solid ink has a laundry list of problems that complicate it. - A single ink clog can destroy a printhead. - partial clogs can result in ugly messes with ink smeared all over the pages and the assembly further smearing on later prints. - the printer has to be calibrated to the specific formulation of solid ink to work properly. A bad ink batch or calibrating to the wrong formulation (or a drift in specs on the formulation) can cause clogs, print head failures, etc. - solid ink printing massively complicates lamination if that's something you need to do (ex in an office). Overall it's a far more unforgiving process. You can't really have aftermarket inks like you can with modern inks and even variations in the first party manufacturing process can have catastrophic effects on the print hardware.

ssddanbrown 3mo ago

> Open Printer is distributed under the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license. So not open source.

einpoklum 3mo ago
The license doesn't apply to the things you print with it. Are you miffed by the restriction on you selling derivative open printers?
- cwillu 3mo ago
  Yes, because that's the thing that makes it open and able to survive the death or corruption of the entity holding the copyright.
  - culi 3mo ago
    The blueprint will be open source and you could technically build it yourself if you have the patience. They are quite proud of how few parts are actually involved in it
    - cwillu 3mo ago
      If it's CC-NC, it's not open source though, that's the point: a license that restricts fields of endeavor is not an open source license.
      - culi 3mo ago
        I respect that point of view. But to me, it being easily hackable and lacking the surveillance features of all other modern printers[0] is still a strong selling point and I hope for the project to succeed. [0] https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-display-tracking-dots https://www.eff.org/pages/list-printers-which-do-or-do-not-d...
        cwillu 3mo ago

prrrrrint 3mo ago

Been waiting for framework to make a regular 2D printer, of any kind, would buy at least two instantly. I will never, never, never buy a fing printer from hp/canon/epson/brother/etc with anti-consumer tech, I rather die.

ValdikSS 3mo ago
Just buy used from this list https://notes.valdikss.org.ru/printers/#Cheap%20used%20laser%20printers%20list https://notes.valdikss.org.ru/printers/#Cheap%20used%20laser...

esskay 3mo ago

Unless I'm missing something using this in a commercial application would be a license violation: > Open Printer is distributed under the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license. > This means that everyone is free to use, share, and modify the project, provided they credit the original author, share derivatives under the same license, and do not use it for commercial purposes. It's also not opensource yet, there's a vague mention of "when its ready" it'll be released.

SwellJoe 3mo ago
What about that license makes you think you can't use the device (i.e. print things) for commercial purposes? The license applies to the thing, not the thing you print using the thing. Me writing software or prose on a computer running Linux using a GPL editor wouldn't change that the copyright of what I write belongs to me, the author. You can't make a commercial competitor of this printer using their design, but using the printer for its intended purpose (printing) is obviously unrelated to that.
- avianlyric 3mo ago
  > You can't make a commercial competitor of this printer using their design Which means it's not open source. Open source means you have the right to distribute work however you want, including commercially, provided you also provide the source under the same license terms as the original. The second you slap a non-commercial limitation on there, it ceases to be open source.
  - stavros 3mo ago
    Of course it's not open source, there's no source to even be open or closed yet! It is Creative Commons, though, which is different.
    - cwillu 3mo ago
      It may be using a CC license, but nothing that's marked NC is meaningfully part of the commons. Yes, some guy can make a part to fix his printer, but that guy can't sell those parts to other people. The existence of a service manual doesn't mean you can get parts once the company disappears or loses interest.

ChrisArchitect 3mo ago

Please "repair" the title, maybe include OpenPrinter to start with, or solely. Some previous discussion on the crowdfunding: Inkjet printer with DRM-free ink will be launched via a crowdfunding campaign (2025) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45423404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45423404

jzer0cool 3mo ago

Can we expect photos to be looking nice?

einpoklum 3mo ago

This is just the thing I needed 30 years ago :-( To be less facetious though, this seems like a nice project (*), but I print so much less these days than in the past. I printed a lot of color stuff when I was in school; but these days I just settle for black/halftoning from a laser printer, for when I actually need something printed, and color on screen only. --- (*) - except perhaps for the NC restriction in the license.

williadc 3mo ago

I had an Epson Ecotank for a couple of years. The printer heads got clogged all the time. We bought a series of cleaning products to address it, they often solved the problem for only a few prints. We finally gave up and bought a Brother laser printer. This project seems like it's trying to address a similar market to the Ecotank. What assurances can the project team provide that OpenPrinter will have better reliability?

slashdave 3mo ago
Just bought a Brother ink tank printer (they have a whole line). Let's see how long it lasts.
- KennyBlanken 3mo ago
  Thirteen models that all look nearly identical and a website that doesn't even remotely help you distinguish between them. I see the same people have been in charge of product design and marketing at Brother for the last twenty years...
  - deinonychus 3mo ago
    and the product browsing page crashes when i apply more than 2 filters or attempt to sort by price. half of the visible products are out of stock or no longer manufactured. really enjoyable experience.
Gigachad 3mo ago
If you print occasionally then laser is the best option. It's just not usable for photo printing. You ideally want to be using the printer every week or two with inkjet.
cwillu 3mo ago
It sounds like OpenPrinter will be using existing ink cartridges with the print heads built-in; I presume they will therefore have the same reliability.
3mo ago

tomkarho 3mo ago

Richard they did it. You can rest now.

natebc 3mo ago
close, but not quite. I suppose in the way that originally set him off, yes. It looks like they're using the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license so restricting commercial use which I think would run afoul of the purists definition of Freedom? It's a cool printer, and I'd much rather have something like this!

TeaVMFan 3mo ago

Title Typo? Reparaible to Repairable?

idorosen 3mo ago

I want to buy one of these just to support projects like it.

dinkleberg 3mo ago

I really love the idea of a paper roll rather than individual sheets. Being able to print out to the size you want rather than only in pre-set sizes is quite cool.

agumonkey 3mo ago
I do wonder if they print end of page lines for you to cut afterward (sorry couldn't read the whole webpage, maybe they explained it)
- dymk 3mo ago
  Built in cutter

another-account 3mo ago

LASER

protocolture 3mo ago

How do they get a satan inside it, i thought demons were proprietary.

Natfan 3mo ago

how has no on mentioned the typo in the title s/Reparaible/Repairable

Titan2189 3mo ago
*no one
stackghost 3mo ago
>how has no on mentioned the typo in the title Perhaps because it's irrelevant [0]. >Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

s0a 3mo ago

just in time. this will certainly juice development of the equally important open source fax machine.

focusgroup0 3mo ago

[dead]

newman314 3mo ago

Seems interesting but I would like a laser version of this. Not ever going back to inkjet.

zerobees 3mo ago

I think the top-ranking comment about complexity is off base: they're not inventing inkjet printing from scratch. It's basically a bunch of existing modules in a new package, presumably with the promise that you will not need to buy subscriptions or DRMed ink cartridges. Is robustness and reparability a compelling pitch? If I'm counting right, I owned eight different printers in my life. Dot matrix, dye sublimation, inkjet, laser. I don't think a single one ever required any serious repairs beyond replacing consumables, clearing paper jams, and pulling out lint. I upgraded as the technology improved. My first laser printer needed about 4x as much desk space as the current one.

znhll 3mo ago
> I don't think a single one ever required any serious repairs beyond replacing consumables I think your experience has been an outlier. I've had several printers from different brands also, and have had some that last a long time, and still print with decent quality even with off-brand ink/toner. However, quite a lot have also failed due to bad capacitors, bad power modules, or the printer or it's firmware just refused to work/print for whatever reason and the manufacturer response was: "buy a new one." There's definitely planned obsolescence built into these machines, and that's why people dislike them, aside from the fact they can be a pain to configure. That's in addition to the ink DRM and other shitty cartel like bs from printer manufacturers.
- abustamam 3mo ago
  I owned a Brother inkjet for some time. I'd print maybe a few times a year. But it seemed like every time I needed to print, the printer was out of ink. Granted I used an ink service (ie not official brother ink) but still where the heck was the ink going? I've since switched to a Brother LaserJet and I'm still on the starter toner after a couple of years.
  - Gigachad 3mo ago
    An inkjet printer has to be used at least monthly if not more often. If you left it plugged in, the printer was likely squirting ink in to a waste tank to prevent the nozzles from drying out and ruining the printer. Laser toner can sit unused without drying out (it's dry powder already).

golem14 3mo ago

I was hoping to see a printer that say a prepper could build from scratch. This design 100% depends on commercial print cartridges containing the actual print-head. Once that clogs, you need to get another one, good luck getting one once production has stopped. Also, if you wanted to avoid yellow dots, not sure if this is built into the cartridge or the firmware of the rest of the printer. Now, I understand that would be hard to pull off. Maybe one could build a deskjet500 equivalent one. Laser printers are quite complex as well, you need too many non-easy to build from scratch parts. Maybe a dot matrix printer is possible. I know for sure you can retrofit older electric typewriters, and those are pretty repairable.

numpad0 3mo ago
I had thought about a post-apocalyptic prepper printer once, my conclusion was that you can just have a fax machine and a laptop. They're considered thoroughly obsolete, and almost free to take in used markets as well.
- golem14 3mo ago
  Yeah, Building a thermoprinter is probably doable, and making thermopaper seems plausible as well
a96 3mo ago
"From scratch", ie raw materials only, probably limits the results to plotters until you've bootstrapped some presicion machinery. And electronics. How many parts you're allowed is going to be an arbitrary choice anyway. But the heads being disposable and one day unavailable is kind of a valid concern if a new source doesn't eventually turn up.

mrsssnake 3mo ago

Does "open source" even mean something anymore, or should we give up and just accept it as common catch-all phrase for everything that suck less, without one definition? Open source AI without a source. Open source software, oh but only up to 4000 users after two years of release for people on south hemisphere. Now open source hardware but your copies of design are for noncommercial use, only our copies are not restriced.

tokai 3mo ago
Open source was always a ploy to water down libre/free.
dofm 3mo ago
If they don't do this (noncommercial, patent), the lesson is that a succession of Chinese vendors will take it and perhaps even secure patents on top of their work. They want time to finish it their way.
- mrsssnake 3mo ago
  My point is not whenever this is good or bad, hardware tools cannot by nature be self-replicated like software tools, but they should not call it open source.

ftchd 3mo ago

For some reason the 8 image grid only loads the first image, maybe there's no images to load?

system2 3mo ago
Also the videos are choppy gifs, not working machine at this point I guess.

Fnoord 3mo ago

Hanging it on a wall like that would be great in say a tiny house / limited space. But what about dust entry? I got cats.

bArray 3mo ago

> With Openprinter, you are free to choose between standard sheets or a roll of versatile paper. A few other comments have concentrated on the printer head and ink cartridge, but the roll vs sheets interests me. Manipulating sheets of paper is actually quite a difficult problem to solve - and there is only a demonstration of paper placement. Loading page after page is actually really not easy at all. There is no example of it printing. I see they got a nomination for a design award [1], which in my personal experience has been a negative signal for successful projects. On the same page they mention that they also mention that they don't even know how much this will cost yet: > We know this is your most frequently asked question! Final pricing depends on a moving puzzle of production volumes, BoM costs, industrialization expenses, regulatory certifications, and final engineering developments. On the crowd funding page it mentions for parts [2]: > Main board: Raspberry Pi Zero W > Cartridge board: STM32 MCU Not a specific MCU variant, and the specifics of the Pi variant (i.e. RAM) are not mentioned. I would expect these parts would be locked in by now. I have a feeling that this is not quite as ready as made out - I think there is still R&D going on. [1] https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer/updates/progress-update-and-details-about-our-nomination-for-a-french-design-award https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer/updates/... [2] https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-tools/open-printer

igoose1 3mo ago
> specifics of the Pi variant (i.e. RAM) are not mentioned I agree with the rest but Pi Zero W is a specific machine with 512 MB RAM: https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-zero-w/ https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-zero-w/ It's also the one everyone can buy online for $19, not Pi Zero 2 W (always out of stock)
- bArray 3mo ago
  > I agree with the rest but Pi Zero W is a specific machine with 512 MB RAM: I thought they came in different variants - my meat-based LLM must have hallucinated it. > It's also the one everyone can buy online for $19, not Pi Zero 2 W (always out of stock) I get the impression that they don't actively manufacture Pi Zero W anymore and it's all old stock. Rapid for example say they have an availability of 761 (at time of writing) [1], but are those all within Rapid's control, or what is reported at Raspberry Pi's remaining stock? If you sell 1k printer units, can you put a Pi Zero W in all of them? Compute modules are probably a bit more reliable and there is some capability with other modules, specifically the DDR2 form factor ones [2] (which is my favorite form factor). For example, ClockWork sold their own compatible compute modules [3]. [1] https://www.rapidonline.com/raspberry-pi-sc0020-zero-w-single-board-computer-1ghz-bcm2835-32-bit-soc-75-2238 https://www.rapidonline.com/raspberry-pi-sc0020-zero-w-singl... [2] https://www.rapidonline.com/raspberry-pi-compute-module-cm3-1gb-ram-0gb-lite-ddr2-so-dimm-75-0643 https://www.rapidonline.com/raspberry-pi-compute-module-cm3-... [3] https://www.clockworkpi.com/shop https://www.clockworkpi.com/shop

baddash 3mo ago

is it better than a Brother printer, cause i've had one for like a decade and it's the shit

delfugal 3mo ago

Does HP make money on printer sales? Ink is cash cow.

klysm 3mo ago

I’ll believe this when I see it on GitHub - rooting for them

SigmundurM 3mo ago

Unfortunate they rely on HP cartridges. HP is a priority BDS target: https://bdsmovement.net/boycott-hp https://bdsmovement.net/boycott-hp

Gigachad 3mo ago
This feels like a bit of a "you must exist in society" situation. If you rule out every company that does any business with Israel you will have a hard time buying anything.
- Aachen 3mo ago
  First time I'm hearing of BDS. Looks like they want to boycott companies that help oppress Palestine (just going off of their homepage here). Since I don't know them, I'll speak generally of boycotts such as against e.g. Nestlé: Saying it's futile because you can't do it perfectly seems silly to me. You can't do everything right in life but you can try right? Minimise harm (as you see it) even if you can't take it away fully
  - Gigachad 3mo ago
    The suggestion here is to boycott a printer because it uses a print head part from HP who sells servers to Israel. The number of steps here is enough that you could rule out everything. And anything you think is left is just something you aren’t aware of a chain that links them.
magic_hamster 3mo ago
Unfortunately people still think BDS is relevant in any way.

utopiah 3mo ago

I follow this project thanks to CrowdSupply from which I regularly buy open hardware. Honestly I'm torn on this one. I will probably buy it but from a purely philosophical standpoint. Why? Well I do have a black & white HP laser printer that I've been using with my Linux devices for years now. It just works. There are a lot of terrible printers out there with wacky firmwares pinging home to their manufacturers. Some require ink with DRM, some companion apps, etc. But... and that's my main point, are just basic printers that work anywhere with anything. There are quite a few to the point that among peripheral printers might be one of the safest one can safely "yeah it will probably work with open system no problem" relatively confidently (still do check first). So... yeah it's cool but in terms of openness of our entire IT ecosystem printing doesn't appear to me as the priority gap to fill. Cool project anyway!

VladVladikoff 3mo ago
What if I want a printer that won’t print traceable dots on everything I print?
- tonyedgecombe 3mo ago
  Use a monochrome laser printer for your ransom notes.
  - VladVladikoff 3mo ago
    In all honesty for years I had one in my small home office, and every time I printed something I could smell it in the room afterwards for an hour, sometimes even getting headaches from this. Switched to inkjet a few years ago and will never look back.
    - ssl-3 3mo ago
      What was the printer? I haven't experienced the odor of ozone when printing at home since my HP Laserjet 4 died from water damage 18 years ago. My current Brother laser printer (an MFC-2750DW, IIRC) is so non-stinky that I haven't thought about for a very long time.

ConanRus 3mo ago

[dead]

tupacshakur 3mo ago

deleted

abetusk 3mo ago

From their FAQ: > Open Printer is distributed under the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license. The non-commercial clause makes it non-open by the commonly accepted term of "open" in this context.

Alien1Being 3mo ago

Laser printers are so much more economical. I use Brother black and white laser printer with after market toner cartridges from eBay . Print around 200 pages a day. Around 5000 pages for 37 AUD ie around 25 USD. The paper costs more per page than the toner. Just make sure you stay away from HP branded printers...

keithnz 3mo ago
yeah, I have a cheap brother laser printer, I don't print that much, but it's been solid for several years. I did have an HP, but it was incredibly problematic, would jam rather easily. Works fine under linux as well.
- jeffhuys 3mo ago
  Does the ink ever dry? That’s my biggest problem with non-lasers - I print maybe 10-100 pages a year but every time I need to change the toner because it’s too dry. And do you print color or no?
  - fsuts 3mo ago
    No doesn’t dry up. It’s why I change from inkjet. And yes they print colour too. They are fine for documents but if you want details photo printing then inkjet I think has an edge, but for most people laser is better choice.
    - keithnz 3mo ago
      I feel like for photos you are better off getting them done via a print service anyways, they are pretty cheap and have much better hardware
jsilence 3mo ago
Or get a good old LaserJet 4050 used somewhere. Indestructible workhorse.

_giorgio_ 3mo ago

HP will simply prevent them from buying their head + cartridge bundle. By legal or by controlling more strictly bulk purchases of replacement parts.

jeroenhd 3mo ago
I don't think they need to ship the cartridges themselves. Customers can just go to any store selling printer ink and get the cartridges. It's a bit steep to also need to buy the money-making product HP wants to earn on, but you can just refill them with cheap ink when they're empty so it's not as big an issue in the long term. HP could stop selling ink cartridges to stores, but they'd be shooting themselves in the foot as well.

RobotToaster 3mo ago

> Open Printer is distributed under the Creative Commons BY-NC-SA 4.0 license. Non commercial licences are not open source. https://community.oscedays.org/t/why-are-non-commercial-licenses-not-open-source/569 https://community.oscedays.org/t/why-are-non-commercial-lice...

victor22 3mo ago

I'll believe it when I see it

magic_hamster 3mo ago

Isn't this hilarious: > A patent as well as a design and model registration have been made to protect the technical architecture and design of Openprinter. So, open as in OpenAI.

purpleidea 3mo ago

When this is a good quality Laser printer let me know. Nobody really wants inkjet that's not for high end photo printing.

nokeya 3mo ago

And then government will declare this printer illegal because of no yellow dots.

foxrider 3mo ago
Good thing they're not selling a printer then, they're selling a parts kit that you have to flash an open source controller firmware to and assemble yourself. Or you may just source them in any way you want. You can't really "outlaw" open source, we had this whole song and dance with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th...

roysting 3mo ago

How would they control the printed paper curling?

finecode 3mo ago

[flagged]

karteum 3mo ago

2 questions : * How can it can do 2-side printing ? (on a normal printer, you may print all the odd pages, turn the whole thing, and print all the even pages) * Won't the cutter experience some wear ?

f1shy 3mo ago
1) Accepts also normal A4 paper according to specs 2) Yes, sure.

swiftcoder 3mo ago

I don't get why this isn't an ink tank printer. Yes, those HP cartridges are technically refillable, but the printheads tend to clog up after a few refills, and then you are stuck paying retail for another cartridge. It would be a lot more aspirational to figure out how to build a tank-based printer (although maybe its not possible to compete with the incumbents on price in this space)

cryo32 3mo ago
I suspect the hard bit is the print head. So they’re just buying that in.
jeroenhd 3mo ago
Printheads are nanotechnology with extreme precision requirements. The rest of the printer is a few well-timed stepper motors, simple in comparison. HP cartridges including the printheads will take a lot of complexity away from the open design. In theory you could probably modify one of these by grabbing an HP cartridge and slapping an ink tank on top with the right sponge for transferring the ink over. Selling parts from HP printer cartridges might creep a little too close to HP's patent lawyers, though, and having users open cartridges to extract the print heads themselves sounds like a messy solution that would reduce the appeal. I'm sure that given time, someone will 3D print an ink tank holder that will let you use cheap ink supplies through the expensive HP cartridges.
- whyoh 3mo ago
  >HP cartridges including the printheads will take a lot of complexity away from the open design. Yes, but it also means it won't be cheaper or more reliable than a regular printer. The print head is what fails most often and you'll still have to buy a new one.
  - dymk 3mo ago
    Aftermarket ink cartridges that are HP compatible are quite cheap compared to brand name

_ink_ 3mo ago

My experience with ink jet was, that the printheads clog up because I use it too rarely. So I like the idea, but it probably has the same problem.

krick 3mo ago

This is all great, but, really, "Open" in "Openprinter" is enough of a sales pitch, because we all know what's the problem with all other printers. I don't need to scroll through all these pretty pictures of hands and tables to get me ready to hear the main thing. Even if I am ready to believe that you can deliver (which is a big if), the only things I am interested in are "how much" and "when do you promise it". And when I scroll all the way through and click on crowdfunding link, it turns out that "This project is launching soon". What's even the point of this landing page in this state?

mbb70 3mo ago

u7à

phkahler 3mo ago

If the ink is refillable due to lack of DRM, why not just buy a commercial printer that supports those cartridges?

vaylian 3mo ago

Probably a stupid question: But where do you get (refillable) ink for this printer from?

mminer237 3mo ago
You can buy bottles of ink on Amazon. Tank printers, jerryrigging, and people refilling cartridges have all been decently common for a long time, so there are plenty of random companies selling it.

nickpinkston 3mo ago

This is really cool and I want one, but please someone tell them to put a clear CTA button above the fold saying "Pre-Order" or something. Also, the bottom spinning button CTA doesn't read like a CTA to me. My skimming eyes almost missed, but YMMV. Other than that - awesome project and godspeed OpenPrinter team!

tracker1 3mo ago

Cool, unless you sometimes go weeks or a couple months without printing and everything gums up... I've never seen an ink printer that doesn't. I tend to favor laser, only because I can go months without printing and then fire off a print job, and it comes out without issue. The continuous feed is nice though... I can see this used for banners like in the old sheet fed dot-matrix days... Print Shop Pro FTW!