33 ms·

Digital euro clears key hurdle as EU seeks to break free from U.S. credit cards

232 points by madars 3mo ago

jasonvorhe 3mo ago
I'm not gonna use CBDC because they'll get hooked up to digital id, no matter what they're "promising" right now. This is just another shitcoin no one asked for.
- basisword 3mo ago
  Aren't your transactions with your bank already hooked up to your identity? >> This is just another shitcoin no one asked for. Giving Europe independence from US payments processors is a huge deal and very necessary.
  - alejoar 3mo ago
    [flagged]
  - euio757 3mo ago
    > Giving Europe independence from US payments processors is a huge deal and very necessary You do realize that US payement processor like Visa & MasterCard rely on chip technology from French company (Gemalto, now part of Thales), so these companies aren't independent from EU to start with. Getting independence from the networks themselves, you only need to create a local competitor ... And those has been existing for multi-decades in each country. E.g. Carte Bleue(France) Bancomat (Italy), Bizum (Spain), SIBS (Portugal) etc. Just merge those into a bigger more ambitious network "EuroPA" is exactly that effort. A digital euro is completely orthogonal to that effort. Crazy people don't see how dystopian and dangerous the concept of a centralized digital currency is...
- starfallg 3mo ago
  CDBC doesn't necessarily imply blockchain. It can be just another payments system.
- dewey 3mo ago
  That's a clear case of perfect being the enemy of good. Are CBDC privacy friendly? No, but it's better than 100% of the credit cards currently being used in Europe being part of the network of two big US companies.
  - mdp2021 3mo ago
    > perfect [as] the enemy of good In real critical systems, that seldom happens. Satisficing is the recipe for disaster. The current disastrous "world" is built on imperfect systems, "what could possibly go wrong" style. It takes full work to create an acceptable instrument. You are mentioning an improvement over credit cards - we would like to have a payment system acceptable by - say, the more "attentive", "discriminative" members of this community.
    - dewey 3mo ago
      Can you say that a bit more clearly? What's your practical suggestion?
      - mdp2021 3mo ago
        Contextually, clearly, "widely accepted electronic money with privacy" - as since a few years I cannot make transactions online as all the decent ways are gone. You cannot call "perfect being the enemy of good" something like "the former solution punched you in the face, this punches in the guts" - it's still "punches". The contextual solution from the eu only affects those who accepted those credit cards - and already that is a special (while overwhelming) chunk of the population, since today they are mostly those who accepted NFC on financial cards (we don't). In general, "perfect" is required - because today "acceptable" is not granted and it is crucial part of the details.
- crimsdings 3mo ago
  There is no bank account that isn't linked to your id already.
- dgellow 3mo ago
  You don't have to use it. you can continue to use your bank account (which is linked to your id, obviously)
  - mdp2021 3mo ago
    As long as we can still use cash - on the condition that it is not linked to any ID.
petcat 3mo ago
This seems different than a credit card account though? I buy everything with my credit cards because I don't want to swipe my bank card at random merchants.
- basisword 3mo ago
  A vast majority of card transactions in the EU are done via debit card. Credit card accounts for only around 25% vs debit. And the only place I've swiped my card was once, in the US, about 15 years ago.
  - petcat 3mo ago
    > Credit card accounts for only around 25% If this is true then what will this new "digital Euro" change about the reliance on US credit cards? It seems that the 25% of people that are swiping US credit cards are doing it for the convenience and benefits of using a credit card. Will this digital euro change that?
    - yreg 3mo ago
      They mean reliance on US bank cards.
      - petcat 3mo ago
        How does that make any sense? You're saying that 75% of Europeans use American bank accounts?
        vinay427 3mo ago
        US “bank cards” as in US payment processors such as Visa, not “US bank” cards.
        adrianmonk 3mo ago
        A bank card is a type of card. Credit cards and debit cards are both bank cards. Prepaid cards are another type. With any type of bank card, there's a bank that guarantees to a merchant that they will later receive a payment. With a debit card, the guarantee is backed by money you have on deposit. With a credit card, it's backed by the bank's money, which is higher risk for the bank. Two US companies, VISA and Mastercard, have big networks for processing transactions with bank cards. These networks act as intermediaries to connect merchants (who want to accept payments) and banks (who issue cards) together. It's much simpler for a merchant to send a request to (say) VISA than to figure out which bank issued each customer's card. The payment networks also define, publish, and enforce standards and rules for the payment process. These networks aren't banks. But they are, in a sense, bank card companies because they are part of the bank card system. So in other words, European consumers have an account at a European bank that issues them a card they can use for purchases at European businesses, but US networks connect it all together.
euio757 3mo ago
> giving Union citizens the freedom to opt to pay with central bank money Because nothing speaks freedom more than a crazily centralized digital currency /s
- gschizas 3mo ago
  It's centralized right now, digital or not, around the two major US payment processors (Visa and MasterCard).
- throwaway270925 3mo ago
  > crazily centralized digital currency Boy, will you be pissed when you learn about non-digital currency!
BadBadJellyBean 3mo ago
I hope that they don't fall into the same trap that a lot of EU projects fall in to: only solving one problem. My VISA card is not only a convenient payment method, it also forces ATM operators to give me cash without any extra fees. In Germany the EC card used to be THE way of paying with a card but you had to go to the ATMs of your bank, otherwise there would be sometimes pretty ridiculous fees. The kicker was that the fees were set by your home bank. Add to that the ease of use online as well as in shops and it's easy to see that this is not going to be easy. I do root for them though, to do better than Wero.
- nemomarx 3mo ago
  What does your visa card do to force them to not charge fees? I still see atm fees over here in the us, so it can't just be being visa. I would guess some regulation but you could get that applied to the digital euro too probably?
  - BadBadJellyBean 3mo ago
    I don't know how but AFAIK VISA has a contract clause that prohibits the issuing bank from charging their customers fees for using other ATMs.
    - Sayrus 3mo ago
      I've seen VISA cards with several banks in France where there is commission after 1 to 3 monthly ATM so I'd be doubtful about VISA having such as requirement.
    - looperhacks 3mo ago
      That doesn't help you if the ATM provider charges you, though?
      - BadBadJellyBean 3mo ago
        True but that doesn't seem to be a thing here.
FooBarWidget 3mo ago
??? Doesn't Europe already have Wero (iDEAL in Netherlands)? That's a system for making online payments. Money gets directly debited from your bank account. I've always found credit cards stupid. You just want to pay for something, and then suddenly you have a debt. You shouldn't be in debt when you can clearly pay with money you have. Credit card companies advertise with "super easy payments" and "buy now pay later" but at the same time the government warns all the time that "lending money costs money". Also, if your credit card number and CVC get leaked, then anybody can steal any amount of money, and your only recourse is to regularly check your statements and warn the bank within a month. Whereas with Wero/iDEAL you must authorize the exact transaction at that exact amount. Supposedly, Americans have these "credit card rewards" loyalty program things. Doesn't exist in Europe. You can only pay, you don't get any bonuses. Which makes the only reason to have a credit card is to be able to pay in web shops that don't accept Wero/iDEAL.
- Sayrus 3mo ago
  At least in France, most of what people call "credit cards" are actually debit cards.
  - anonzzzies 3mo ago
    Yeah most EU citizens never had a credit card but they call them credit cards anyway.
    - a96 3mo ago
      As wrong as all the other blanket statements.
- xxpor 3mo ago
  Europeans being so scared of debt is so funny. Just pay off your card every month. The liability model is completely different in the US from Europe w.r.t. merchant vs bank. The interchange fees are much much higher in the US, which is what pays for the rewards. Europe has an artificial cap.
kevincocks 3mo ago
[flagged]
- croes 3mo ago
  What’s bad on replaceable or long living batteries?
- soperj 3mo ago
  what's bad about an interoperable standard for charging?
- blenklo 3mo ago
  EU is very good, most of the time. Besides this GDPR Website thing, usb-c is great, energy standards are great, etc.
  - Dries007 3mo ago
    GDPR could have been great, if it was actually enforced in the way it was intended. Cookie banners and dark patterns are not actually allowed, but without enforcement, it's basically meaningless. IMO the biggest issue is that the member states are individually required to set up agencies to police this. This makes perfect sense for local companies, but is meaningless against large entities that operate across the entire EU.
    - dgellow 3mo ago
      It is being enforced: https://www.enforcementtracker.com https://www.enforcementtracker.com You can report issues to your local watchdog. That takes quite some time, given the large amount of companies that do not follow the law, but it is enforced
    - blenklo 3mo ago
      Large entities (companies right?) take that very serious. Its the other way around, small companies might not be aware of. Nonetheless, i have seen in a very small company that we changed the behaviour of a camera which then only turned on when the action expected it and not before. And in a very big company you alway have to fullfill it as a product standard.
freediddy 3mo ago
How does digital euro replace credit cards? That's basically the same as direct debit. It doesn't address the reason why I use credit cards. I use credit cards as a proxy for my bank accounts. I know that my issuing bank will protect me from all fraud so I don't have to worry about losing money if I buy something from a fraudulent merchant. I also know I can do things like chargebacks if I have to. None of this is addressed by digital currency, it's basically like using cash which is haphazard today when there are so many scams everywhere around the world.
- toomuchtodo 3mo ago
  It’s fancy instant payments, which most of the developed world already has. The question is which unnecessary intermediaries do you continue to remove as you refactor legacy financial infra. Credit card rails are expensive legacy rails, that part of the stack is the target to disrupt in this context. In the context of the digital euro, you can think of it as a demand deposit account backed by the central bank (as most fiat deposit accounts are in some way) that is portable between banks, like you’d move a US investment account that can hold securities between brokers with ACATS at the clearinghouse. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48415854 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48415854 (recent subthread with some related context) Global instant payment system map: https://www.pymnts.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/PYMNTS-Real-Time-Payments-World-Map-May-2025.pdf https://www.pymnts.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/PYMNTS-Rea... [pdf]
  - drstewart 3mo ago
    >It’s fancy instant payments That's a massive oversimplification, and doesn't even address the OP's point that directly challenges this. Lot of errors in your post. Not to mention the fact that you confuse Mastercard and Visa for "credit card rails" further underscores this.
    - toomuchtodo 3mo ago
      The exact technical details aren’t terribly relevant imho, just that the EU has found the will to implement a superior value storage and transfer system, a benefit of which is avoiding US entities and infra. I have intentionally simplified for the layman audience, and understand if you take issue with my simplification. Your comment history shows a decidedly anti EU sentiment, including against EU sovereignty (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48515118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48515118, for example), make of that what you will. > How come the EU is making a "digital sovereignty" push? Why are only EU people allowed to compete for EU services? Are there no evil people in the EU? I like tech that improves efficiency (disintermediating unnecessary US commercial payment processors) and decouples from proven threat actors and nation state aggressors, that is my interest on this topic, ymmv.
stackghost 3mo ago
This is interesting and poignant less because of the digital currency aspect and more because of the geopolitics. In a world where technology touches everything, tech itself becomes political. The boulder that is de-Americanization has rolled too far downhill now and gained too much momentum; it can no longer be stopped. The two thirds of Americans who either voted for Trump or couldn't be bothered to vote against him because they aReN't PoLiTiCaL are going to have to come to terms with their new place in the world one way or another. The US is no longer seen as a stable military partner[0], nor a stable economic partner as evidenced by TFA. It's easy to blame Trump but he is merely a symptom of the root cause, which is the attitudes shared by a huge number of Americans. America will cease to be (and in some cases already has ceased to be) the world's epicenter of geopolitical soft power, scientific innovation, and financial clout. Treaties to which the US is a signatory are not worth the paper they're printed on. The foundations have already been laid, and the de-Americanization trend can't be stopped. For a people so accustomed to feeling like a privileged special class of world citizens, I honestly wonder if the American psyche can handle it. Probably we'll see a wave of people who "never supported Trump in the first place", just like tons of Germans were "never Nazis in the first place" once it became socially unpalatable. So, congrats, I guess. At least you guys got some people with brown skin deported. [0] https://www.readtheline.ca/p/matt-gurney-we-will-never-fucking https://www.readtheline.ca/p/matt-gurney-we-will-never-fucki...
- omnimus 3mo ago
  Don't underestimate how much in bed are many of the european politicians/oligarchs with US neocon class. Trump is also problem for them. If Trump gets replaced by some moderate neocon on wave of “good old times” every one of these lobbied politicians will jump back hail comming of the golden age, buy everything american again and delete all this sovereignity out of the sky. Trump moved overton window so much we will be fed story about how we shall be glad for the corrupted but not vulgar politicians that do barely minimum.
  - stackghost 3mo ago
    >If Trump gets replaced by some moderate neocon on wave of “good old times” every one of these lobbied politicians will jump back hail comming of the golden age, buy everything american again and delete all this sovereignity out of the sky. I don't think so. In fact I think you, like the American delegation in the article I linked to, are dramatically underestimating the degree to which a lot of US allies feel betrayed.
kittikitti 3mo ago
I am hoping this could be utilized by those living in the US who also don't want to use the dollar. The surveillance has grown too large and I don't trust my own money. The IRS requires all transactions sent to them if they total $600 or more on a payment app. Why would I want my money in US dollar when the Euro has vastly more robust protections and less corruption?
- pjc50 3mo ago
  > The IRS requires all transactions sent to them if they total $600 or more on a payment app I regret to inform you that your tax obligations don't disappear just because they're in a different currency. Worse, because you're a US national, they don't disappear even if you're physically in a different country.
Symbiote 3mo ago
On an article like this, I encourage anyone giving an opinion based on their own experience to say what country it's from. (Or have this in their profile.)
- oAlbe 3mo ago
  It's the Internet. Just assume they are American unless otherwise specified.
  - subscribed 3mo ago
    And then the European chimes in and says something suggesting the Europe is a homogenous state :)
ryukafalz 3mo ago
How much you wanna bet that digital euro implementations will in practice depend on two US corporations? The EUDI wallet implementations being rolled out seem to so far. (Apple and Google, in case it wasn't obvious.)
- epolanski 3mo ago
  The goal is to detach your transaction from a new York based point of failure.
cloudie78 3mo ago
And how do I exit this walled garden and pay in GBP to UK, or USD to USA, or dare I say Yuan to China. What about RSD to Serbia? CHF to Switzerland?
- dgellow 3mo ago
  you do standard FX... what are you trying to say?
- jeroenhd 3mo ago
  You put the money in your bank account and use that to pay, or you buy the other currency. The same way you would with physical coins and notes. Or, if the UK/USA/China set up their own pseudo-cryptocurrency, you can probably exchange digital euros for digital dollars or digital yuans.
amadeuspagel 3mo ago
> The approval of draft rules by the economic committee of the European Parliament comes after three years of wrangling between the ECB and banks, which have been concerned about deposit outflows and lost revenues and sought to limit the scope of the project. This kind of thing is why I'm optimistic both about Bitcoin and fiat currencies in third world countries like Brazil and India.
- Muromec 3mo ago
  Still faster than increasing the block size limit in bitcoin
cloudengineer94 3mo ago
Reminder to the people reading this thread and overall comments, that in Europe everyone uses Debit Cards instead of Credit Cards. Credit Card in Europe is very much associated with Debt.
- lotsofpulp 3mo ago
  The article uses the term credit card for apparently no reason, because Visa and Mastercard also support debit cards. The EU is probably more concerned about Visa and Mastercard payment networks being under the control of American leaders.
  - Muromec 3mo ago
    We call every card a credit card even if most of them are actually debit.
    - calgoo 3mo ago
      we dont in spain, we call it "tarjeta de debito" and "tarjeta de credito" or just "la tarjeta" or the card.
      - cuvert 3mo ago
        And in Italy many people say Bancomat when they want to pay with the card even if they don't have a card with that circuit anymore.
        touristtam 3mo ago
        It used to be the "blue card" in France (Carte Bleu)
        BlueTemplar 3mo ago
        That network still exists, and can now even be used preferentially over Visa/MasterCard, in particular when paying online.
toomuchtodo 3mo ago
Related: European Parliament committee backs digital euro - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48645468 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48645468 - June 2026
__rito__ 3mo ago
Can someone tell me why the EU doesn’t develop something like RuPay? Indian UPI gets mentioned a lot, but when Visa, Mastercard didn't agree with data sovereignty rules among other rules, India quickly developed RuPay [0]. Now most debit cards in India are RuPay. CCs stand at 18% share. They also integrate seamlessly to UPI. Why doesn’t the EU consider something like that? They want to jump direct to digital currencies? Is that it? Something else? [0]: Data rules came in 2017/18, RuPay was developed in 2012 iirc. But it got unprecedented push after the rule.
- toomuchtodo 3mo ago
  They are, it’s called Wero. It is a stopgap, and sits on top of SEPA. Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48207004 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48207004 - May 2026 (777 comments) Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47038965 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47038965 - February 2026 (132 comments) Europe's Banks Launch Wero Payments to Dislodge Visa, Mastercard - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41666833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41666833 - September 2024 (88 comments) Unofficial Wero Adoption Tracker - https://www.werotracker.eu/ https://www.werotracker.eu/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
  - __rito__ 3mo ago
    Is Wero something you can hold in your hands? RuPay is just like Visa/Mastercard in the sense you get physical cards that you can use at ATMs, use at ecomm sites, etc. Wero doesn’t seem to be that. Am I missing something? Does making a new direct alternative to Visa/MC doesn’t make sense for the EU? If so, why?
    - lxgr 3mo ago
      Cards (as implemented in the US at least, i.e., with individual purchases not confirmed by the cardholder) are a relic of a different time in many ways. If you're building out a brand new system, why not make use of the computing device with input/output capabilities (that can be used to confirm amount, payee etc.) almost everybody already has in their pocket/purse anyway and instead rely on merchants being honest and only taking what they're owed out of your account without your confirmation? Of course physical cards will also play some role in any future EU payment system, if for nothing other than resiliency (a card works without any battery and is cheap to keep in a drawer or suitcase as a backup for a stolen phone) and sovereignty (note who makes most phones' operating systems and runs their attestation providers).
tancop 3mo ago
i hope the thing they roll out is a straight copy of pix from brazil. its fast, reliable, cheaper than debit cards and private (not anonymous but only the central bank can see your info). no corporations involved outside of support contracts and no stupid limits to make banks happy like this new proposal. and there should be a right to use all payment methods in the constitution or whatever the eu equivalent is. all stores must accept digital euro and physical stores also accept cash. crypto shouldnt be a part of the system but protected from being made illegal in any member state, privacy coins especially.
peterspath 3mo ago
Also clears the way to control how the digital euros can be spent. No thanks. Ideal/Wero is good. Use my credit cards for larger online payments. Mainly because it has insurance and makes it easy to dispute something. Last year a large Swedish clothing brand didn’t deliver 400 euros worth of clothing. They said they did. I have nothing. Customer service unhelpful. I disputed it with the bank where I have the credit card. The same day it was fixed.
- vrganj 3mo ago
  I'd rather have a democratically elected government in control than an unelected company that actively uses its power to censor things it doesnt like. [0] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/29/mastercard-visa-backlash-adult-games-removed-online-stores-steam-itchio-ntwnfb https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/29/mastercard-vis...
  - peterspath 3mo ago
    Except that parts of the union are not democratic at all. And in this specific case I kinda of agree with what they banned. And they are definitely not the only ones. Lots of financial institutions block these kind of things.
    - vrganj 3mo ago
      That seems like a rather big statement to make without anything to back it up.
    - lmm 3mo ago
      The EU has less democratic accountability than I would like, but it is there. National governments have been brought down over their poor choices at the EU level. Even if you think Visa/MC made the right decisions in these cases, the fact that they're being made by private companies accountable to no-one should worry you.
- fidotron 3mo ago
  This has been de facto true for a while, not that it improves the situation. Various EU countries have legal limits for the size of cash transactions, requiring you to do it via a bank. The idea that people have private property does seem to be something governments are incredibly keen to erode.
paulwilsontx01 3mo ago
might be time the europeans get a little democracy
- mdp2021 3mo ago
  What do you mean? Do not have us guess.
ano-ther 3mo ago
Here is a more technical description: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12525-025-00822-7 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12525-025-00822-7 I am still not quite sure how this would affect my day-to-day (private) payment experience transaction cost etc. But is has strategic value for Europe: > [...] European dependencies in critical technologies. A digital euro could mitigate these developments in the medium term if the infrastructure is mainly operated by European companies and if European payment service providers manage to achieve a leading position in the evolving ecosystem for digital euro services. Some more: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/timeline/profuse/shared/pdf/ecb.derdgp251030_RDG_progress_report_October_25.en.pdf https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/timeline/profuse...
- egorfine 3mo ago
  > how this would affect my day-to-day (private) payment experience You will need to pass KYC at every counter.
  - ano-ther 3mo ago
    Well they already know me. I make about one small payment per quarter in cash, everything else via phone, card or bank transfer. So I don’t see the day-to-day difference with digital euro, except that the backend seems to have fewer intermediaries (and maybe lower cost for the merchant?). Also it would work in more than one country which is good.
unsigner 3mo ago
This sounds like "government issue Revolut". Which would be... low-key nice? Not a nefarious scheme, not a revolutionary future of money, just something to replace a certain part of your financial life without tying it to a commercial entity. Which might be appealing to the anti-capitalism segment of Europeans.
- raron 3mo ago
  I theory it should be more. The ECB claims you will be able to hold and spend a (limited amount of) digital euro offline (without internet connection).
Pooge 3mo ago
Isn't the Euro digital already? I don't understand... Is the buzzword just flying over my head?
- raron 3mo ago
  Not really. Euro cash today is paper / plastic banknotes and metal coins. Your account in the bank is not really cash you own, it is more like the banks liability towards you. If your bank fail, you loose the money you held in the bank (except the insured amount). If you have some cash, that's independent from any private company, and it must be accepted everywhere. Digital Euro should have the advantages of cash and the comfort of electronic payments, too.
frr149 3mo ago
Credit cards in Europe are a form of very short term credit: you spend and pay the entire balance on the next month. The is very different from the model in the US, which is designed to keep you in debt forever.
nottorp 3mo ago
So who else thinks of some crypto scam when they see "digital euro" ?
insane_dreamer 3mo ago
I don't understand why you need a "digital Euro" since debit card transactions are already "digital", and widespread in Europe (Girocard, Carte Bleu, etc.)? This sounds more like a cross-EU unified payment system/mechanism rather than a "digital currency" (which already exists).
- raron 3mo ago
  AFAIK the ECB wants to have both things. Digital Euro being a CBDC could open up a lot of possibilities, but they want an unified payment system, too, and that would be a nice first job for digital Euro.
  - insane_dreamer 3mo ago
    I must be missing something because I still don't understand what differentiates a "Digital Euro" from "Euro stored in digital form". They're essentially the same. The reason why crypto currencies are different is the mechanisms by which they are exchanged (i.e., blockchain) or how they are issued (i.e., mining). The ECB already has control over how the Euro is exchanged and issued. The only thing a digital euro does is eliminate the cash aspect but these days that's a small amount, and they could also achieve by gradually retiring cash and shrinking the available amount (like Sweden has done).
    - raron 3mo ago
      The difference is more a financial or legal thing, than a technical one. From an users' perspective paying with digital Euro would work more-or-less the same as you pay today with card, bank transfer or something based on QR codes. But it will have very different guarantees and trusts behind the scene. Today you don't really think about keeping your money in a bank and paying with card as a different thing than having physical cash, because banks and payment services have very strict regulations and insurance schemes. Banks rarely goes bankrupt and even if they do, most of the people are not affected, because they get back their money from deposit insurance. Banks can create money from thin air (without the approval of the central bank) and lend it to you (and destroy when you pay your loan back), they can not do that with Digital Euro. Everybody would be able to convert all their Digital Euro to banknotes at the same time, but that would bankrupt any commercial bank. Banks can deny your request to open an account or provide payment services to you (e.g. what happened with the ICC judge), you can own Digital Euro without having a bank account. Banks pay interest for using your money (and the risk you take), this could even be negative that means some people even willing to loose money if they can have Euro instead of their original currency. Banks wouldn't be able to use your Digital Euro, you wouldn't get any interest on it. Digital Euro (the same way as physical cash), is a legal tender, money in bank and card payments are not. The value of Digital Euro doesn't depend on your bank, the numbers on your bank account could worth nothing if your bank goes bankrupt, central banks can not go bankrupt. Digital Euro (for a limited amount) could be exchanged directly between two peers like physical cash (offline, without connection to internet or any bank).
Geee 3mo ago
Horrible idea. It's a step towards single-tier banking like in the Soviet Union, where the central bank takes the role of commercial banks. There's no other reason for this than surveillance and control. There already exists multiple EU-wide payment systems handled by commercial banks. They just need to step up their game a little bit to get rid of Visa and Mastercard, which provide all the debit and credit cards.
- dominojab 3mo ago
  [dead]
throwawaypath 3mo ago
Will the digital Euro run on U.S. hardware and software?
- mdp2021 3mo ago
  Maybe requiring contracts that some would not sign. (A number of services today are already "Configure with the App, get it on Google".)
harrouet 3mo ago
"Digital Euro"... Do people realize that maybe 90% of money is already digital, i.e. sitting as bytes and numbers on banks' computers ? It seems to me that the actual problem that the EU is trying to solve it to find a tech managed by the ECB but that leaves space for the banks to keep existing in payment. They make a significant amount of money from Visa/Mastercard payments. But we don't need payment terminals anymore: phones and QR-Codes are enough. We don't need Visa or Mastercard: just route payment instructions from payee's bank to payer's bank. In Europe, we actually already have instant-payment through the SEPA network (i.e. IBAN transactions).
- pjc50 3mo ago
  > We don't need Visa or Mastercard: just route payment instructions from payee's bank to payer's bank. That sounds simple, but yet is basically nowhere as a payment infrastructure. Various countries have their own low friction payments, like Norways' Vipps; we "just" (hah) need to combine them into one European Voltron of payments.
  - peterspath 3mo ago
    That is the goal of Wero
zoobab 3mo ago
1984.
egorfine 3mo ago
I reckon it will be KYCed as hard as imaginable - and then some.
- reddalo 3mo ago
  Aren't credit cards KYCed anyway?
  - egorfine 3mo ago
    Yes, offline, in person, in the bank. But regulators will want more. So I fully expect a deeper KYC for the digital euro.
reddalo 3mo ago
> (Refiles to remove extraneous words before first bullet point) Why does the article start with that line? Looks like they forgot to remove part of their AI prompt...
port11 3mo ago
Pros: break the duopoly of Visa and Mastercard. Convenient. Low fees. Cons: in a couple of years, a well-meaning but idiotic EU official will try to restrict what you can buy with Digital Euros and demand that the police keep tabs on your purchases. You know, to “protect the children.”
spwa4 3mo ago
Decision makers celebrate making a small decision. Clearly the US should be shaking in it's boots.
penguin_booze 3mo ago
Good. Now replace USD for trades.

232 points by madars 3mo ago

I'm not gonna use CBDC because they'll get hooked up to digital id, no matter what they're "promising" right now. This is just another shitcoin no one asked for.

basisword 3mo ago
Aren't your transactions with your bank already hooked up to your identity? >> This is just another shitcoin no one asked for. Giving Europe independence from US payments processors is a huge deal and very necessary.
- alejoar 3mo ago
  [flagged]
- euio757 3mo ago
  > Giving Europe independence from US payments processors is a huge deal and very necessary You do realize that US payement processor like Visa & MasterCard rely on chip technology from French company (Gemalto, now part of Thales), so these companies aren't independent from EU to start with. Getting independence from the networks themselves, you only need to create a local competitor ... And those has been existing for multi-decades in each country. E.g. Carte Bleue(France) Bancomat (Italy), Bizum (Spain), SIBS (Portugal) etc. Just merge those into a bigger more ambitious network "EuroPA" is exactly that effort. A digital euro is completely orthogonal to that effort. Crazy people don't see how dystopian and dangerous the concept of a centralized digital currency is...
starfallg 3mo ago
CDBC doesn't necessarily imply blockchain. It can be just another payments system.
dewey 3mo ago
That's a clear case of perfect being the enemy of good. Are CBDC privacy friendly? No, but it's better than 100% of the credit cards currently being used in Europe being part of the network of two big US companies.
- mdp2021 3mo ago
  > perfect [as] the enemy of good In real critical systems, that seldom happens. Satisficing is the recipe for disaster. The current disastrous "world" is built on imperfect systems, "what could possibly go wrong" style. It takes full work to create an acceptable instrument. You are mentioning an improvement over credit cards - we would like to have a payment system acceptable by - say, the more "attentive", "discriminative" members of this community.
  - dewey 3mo ago
    Can you say that a bit more clearly? What's your practical suggestion?
    - mdp2021 3mo ago
      Contextually, clearly, "widely accepted electronic money with privacy" - as since a few years I cannot make transactions online as all the decent ways are gone. You cannot call "perfect being the enemy of good" something like "the former solution punched you in the face, this punches in the guts" - it's still "punches". The contextual solution from the eu only affects those who accepted those credit cards - and already that is a special (while overwhelming) chunk of the population, since today they are mostly those who accepted NFC on financial cards (we don't). In general, "perfect" is required - because today "acceptable" is not granted and it is crucial part of the details.
crimsdings 3mo ago
There is no bank account that isn't linked to your id already.
dgellow 3mo ago
You don't have to use it. you can continue to use your bank account (which is linked to your id, obviously)
- mdp2021 3mo ago
  As long as we can still use cash - on the condition that it is not linked to any ID.

petcat 3mo ago

This seems different than a credit card account though? I buy everything with my credit cards because I don't want to swipe my bank card at random merchants.

basisword 3mo ago
A vast majority of card transactions in the EU are done via debit card. Credit card accounts for only around 25% vs debit. And the only place I've swiped my card was once, in the US, about 15 years ago.
- petcat 3mo ago
  > Credit card accounts for only around 25% If this is true then what will this new "digital Euro" change about the reliance on US credit cards? It seems that the 25% of people that are swiping US credit cards are doing it for the convenience and benefits of using a credit card. Will this digital euro change that?
  - yreg 3mo ago
    They mean reliance on US bank cards.
    - petcat 3mo ago
      How does that make any sense? You're saying that 75% of Europeans use American bank accounts?
      - vinay427 3mo ago
        US “bank cards” as in US payment processors such as Visa, not “US bank” cards.
      - adrianmonk 3mo ago
        A bank card is a type of card. Credit cards and debit cards are both bank cards. Prepaid cards are another type. With any type of bank card, there's a bank that guarantees to a merchant that they will later receive a payment. With a debit card, the guarantee is backed by money you have on deposit. With a credit card, it's backed by the bank's money, which is higher risk for the bank. Two US companies, VISA and Mastercard, have big networks for processing transactions with bank cards. These networks act as intermediaries to connect merchants (who want to accept payments) and banks (who issue cards) together. It's much simpler for a merchant to send a request to (say) VISA than to figure out which bank issued each customer's card. The payment networks also define, publish, and enforce standards and rules for the payment process. These networks aren't banks. But they are, in a sense, bank card companies because they are part of the bank card system. So in other words, European consumers have an account at a European bank that issues them a card they can use for purchases at European businesses, but US networks connect it all together.

euio757 3mo ago

> giving Union citizens the freedom to opt to pay with central bank money Because nothing speaks freedom more than a crazily centralized digital currency /s

gschizas 3mo ago
It's centralized right now, digital or not, around the two major US payment processors (Visa and MasterCard).
throwaway270925 3mo ago
> crazily centralized digital currency Boy, will you be pissed when you learn about non-digital currency!

BadBadJellyBean 3mo ago

I hope that they don't fall into the same trap that a lot of EU projects fall in to: only solving one problem. My VISA card is not only a convenient payment method, it also forces ATM operators to give me cash without any extra fees. In Germany the EC card used to be THE way of paying with a card but you had to go to the ATMs of your bank, otherwise there would be sometimes pretty ridiculous fees. The kicker was that the fees were set by your home bank. Add to that the ease of use online as well as in shops and it's easy to see that this is not going to be easy. I do root for them though, to do better than Wero.

nemomarx 3mo ago
What does your visa card do to force them to not charge fees? I still see atm fees over here in the us, so it can't just be being visa. I would guess some regulation but you could get that applied to the digital euro too probably?
- BadBadJellyBean 3mo ago
  I don't know how but AFAIK VISA has a contract clause that prohibits the issuing bank from charging their customers fees for using other ATMs.
  - Sayrus 3mo ago
    I've seen VISA cards with several banks in France where there is commission after 1 to 3 monthly ATM so I'd be doubtful about VISA having such as requirement.
  - looperhacks 3mo ago
    That doesn't help you if the ATM provider charges you, though?
    - BadBadJellyBean 3mo ago
      True but that doesn't seem to be a thing here.

FooBarWidget 3mo ago

??? Doesn't Europe already have Wero (iDEAL in Netherlands)? That's a system for making online payments. Money gets directly debited from your bank account. I've always found credit cards stupid. You just want to pay for something, and then suddenly you have a debt. You shouldn't be in debt when you can clearly pay with money you have. Credit card companies advertise with "super easy payments" and "buy now pay later" but at the same time the government warns all the time that "lending money costs money". Also, if your credit card number and CVC get leaked, then anybody can steal any amount of money, and your only recourse is to regularly check your statements and warn the bank within a month. Whereas with Wero/iDEAL you must authorize the exact transaction at that exact amount. Supposedly, Americans have these "credit card rewards" loyalty program things. Doesn't exist in Europe. You can only pay, you don't get any bonuses. Which makes the only reason to have a credit card is to be able to pay in web shops that don't accept Wero/iDEAL.

Sayrus 3mo ago
At least in France, most of what people call "credit cards" are actually debit cards.
- anonzzzies 3mo ago
  Yeah most EU citizens never had a credit card but they call them credit cards anyway.
  - a96 3mo ago
    As wrong as all the other blanket statements.
xxpor 3mo ago
Europeans being so scared of debt is so funny. Just pay off your card every month. The liability model is completely different in the US from Europe w.r.t. merchant vs bank. The interchange fees are much much higher in the US, which is what pays for the rewards. Europe has an artificial cap.

kevincocks 3mo ago

[flagged]

croes 3mo ago
What’s bad on replaceable or long living batteries?
soperj 3mo ago
what's bad about an interoperable standard for charging?
blenklo 3mo ago
EU is very good, most of the time. Besides this GDPR Website thing, usb-c is great, energy standards are great, etc.
- Dries007 3mo ago
  GDPR could have been great, if it was actually enforced in the way it was intended. Cookie banners and dark patterns are not actually allowed, but without enforcement, it's basically meaningless. IMO the biggest issue is that the member states are individually required to set up agencies to police this. This makes perfect sense for local companies, but is meaningless against large entities that operate across the entire EU.
  - dgellow 3mo ago
    It is being enforced: https://www.enforcementtracker.com https://www.enforcementtracker.com You can report issues to your local watchdog. That takes quite some time, given the large amount of companies that do not follow the law, but it is enforced
  - blenklo 3mo ago
    Large entities (companies right?) take that very serious. Its the other way around, small companies might not be aware of. Nonetheless, i have seen in a very small company that we changed the behaviour of a camera which then only turned on when the action expected it and not before. And in a very big company you alway have to fullfill it as a product standard.

freediddy 3mo ago

How does digital euro replace credit cards? That's basically the same as direct debit. It doesn't address the reason why I use credit cards. I use credit cards as a proxy for my bank accounts. I know that my issuing bank will protect me from all fraud so I don't have to worry about losing money if I buy something from a fraudulent merchant. I also know I can do things like chargebacks if I have to. None of this is addressed by digital currency, it's basically like using cash which is haphazard today when there are so many scams everywhere around the world.

toomuchtodo 3mo ago
It’s fancy instant payments, which most of the developed world already has. The question is which unnecessary intermediaries do you continue to remove as you refactor legacy financial infra. Credit card rails are expensive legacy rails, that part of the stack is the target to disrupt in this context. In the context of the digital euro, you can think of it as a demand deposit account backed by the central bank (as most fiat deposit accounts are in some way) that is portable between banks, like you’d move a US investment account that can hold securities between brokers with ACATS at the clearinghouse. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48415854 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48415854 (recent subthread with some related context) Global instant payment system map: https://www.pymnts.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/PYMNTS-Real-Time-Payments-World-Map-May-2025.pdf https://www.pymnts.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/PYMNTS-Rea... [pdf]
- drstewart 3mo ago
  >It’s fancy instant payments That's a massive oversimplification, and doesn't even address the OP's point that directly challenges this. Lot of errors in your post. Not to mention the fact that you confuse Mastercard and Visa for "credit card rails" further underscores this.
  - toomuchtodo 3mo ago
    The exact technical details aren’t terribly relevant imho, just that the EU has found the will to implement a superior value storage and transfer system, a benefit of which is avoiding US entities and infra. I have intentionally simplified for the layman audience, and understand if you take issue with my simplification. Your comment history shows a decidedly anti EU sentiment, including against EU sovereignty (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48515118 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48515118, for example), make of that what you will. > How come the EU is making a "digital sovereignty" push? Why are only EU people allowed to compete for EU services? Are there no evil people in the EU? I like tech that improves efficiency (disintermediating unnecessary US commercial payment processors) and decouples from proven threat actors and nation state aggressors, that is my interest on this topic, ymmv.

stackghost 3mo ago

This is interesting and poignant less because of the digital currency aspect and more because of the geopolitics. In a world where technology touches everything, tech itself becomes political. The boulder that is de-Americanization has rolled too far downhill now and gained too much momentum; it can no longer be stopped. The two thirds of Americans who either voted for Trump or couldn't be bothered to vote against him because they aReN't PoLiTiCaL are going to have to come to terms with their new place in the world one way or another. The US is no longer seen as a stable military partner[0], nor a stable economic partner as evidenced by TFA. It's easy to blame Trump but he is merely a symptom of the root cause, which is the attitudes shared by a huge number of Americans. America will cease to be (and in some cases already has ceased to be) the world's epicenter of geopolitical soft power, scientific innovation, and financial clout. Treaties to which the US is a signatory are not worth the paper they're printed on. The foundations have already been laid, and the de-Americanization trend can't be stopped. For a people so accustomed to feeling like a privileged special class of world citizens, I honestly wonder if the American psyche can handle it. Probably we'll see a wave of people who "never supported Trump in the first place", just like tons of Germans were "never Nazis in the first place" once it became socially unpalatable. So, congrats, I guess. At least you guys got some people with brown skin deported. [0] https://www.readtheline.ca/p/matt-gurney-we-will-never-fucking https://www.readtheline.ca/p/matt-gurney-we-will-never-fucki...

omnimus 3mo ago
Don't underestimate how much in bed are many of the european politicians/oligarchs with US neocon class. Trump is also problem for them. If Trump gets replaced by some moderate neocon on wave of “good old times” every one of these lobbied politicians will jump back hail comming of the golden age, buy everything american again and delete all this sovereignity out of the sky. Trump moved overton window so much we will be fed story about how we shall be glad for the corrupted but not vulgar politicians that do barely minimum.
- stackghost 3mo ago
  >If Trump gets replaced by some moderate neocon on wave of “good old times” every one of these lobbied politicians will jump back hail comming of the golden age, buy everything american again and delete all this sovereignity out of the sky. I don't think so. In fact I think you, like the American delegation in the article I linked to, are dramatically underestimating the degree to which a lot of US allies feel betrayed.

kittikitti 3mo ago

I am hoping this could be utilized by those living in the US who also don't want to use the dollar. The surveillance has grown too large and I don't trust my own money. The IRS requires all transactions sent to them if they total $600 or more on a payment app. Why would I want my money in US dollar when the Euro has vastly more robust protections and less corruption?

pjc50 3mo ago
> The IRS requires all transactions sent to them if they total $600 or more on a payment app I regret to inform you that your tax obligations don't disappear just because they're in a different currency. Worse, because you're a US national, they don't disappear even if you're physically in a different country.

Symbiote 3mo ago

On an article like this, I encourage anyone giving an opinion based on their own experience to say what country it's from. (Or have this in their profile.)

oAlbe 3mo ago
It's the Internet. Just assume they are American unless otherwise specified.
- subscribed 3mo ago
  And then the European chimes in and says something suggesting the Europe is a homogenous state :)

ryukafalz 3mo ago

How much you wanna bet that digital euro implementations will in practice depend on two US corporations? The EUDI wallet implementations being rolled out seem to so far. (Apple and Google, in case it wasn't obvious.)

epolanski 3mo ago
The goal is to detach your transaction from a new York based point of failure.

cloudie78 3mo ago

And how do I exit this walled garden and pay in GBP to UK, or USD to USA, or dare I say Yuan to China. What about RSD to Serbia? CHF to Switzerland?

dgellow 3mo ago
you do standard FX... what are you trying to say?
jeroenhd 3mo ago
You put the money in your bank account and use that to pay, or you buy the other currency. The same way you would with physical coins and notes. Or, if the UK/USA/China set up their own pseudo-cryptocurrency, you can probably exchange digital euros for digital dollars or digital yuans.

amadeuspagel 3mo ago

> The approval of draft rules by the economic committee of the European Parliament comes after three years of wrangling between the ECB and banks, which have been concerned about deposit outflows and lost revenues and sought to limit the scope of the project. This kind of thing is why I'm optimistic both about Bitcoin and fiat currencies in third world countries like Brazil and India.

Muromec 3mo ago
Still faster than increasing the block size limit in bitcoin

cloudengineer94 3mo ago

Reminder to the people reading this thread and overall comments, that in Europe everyone uses Debit Cards instead of Credit Cards. Credit Card in Europe is very much associated with Debt.

lotsofpulp 3mo ago
The article uses the term credit card for apparently no reason, because Visa and Mastercard also support debit cards. The EU is probably more concerned about Visa and Mastercard payment networks being under the control of American leaders.
- Muromec 3mo ago
  We call every card a credit card even if most of them are actually debit.
  - calgoo 3mo ago
    we dont in spain, we call it "tarjeta de debito" and "tarjeta de credito" or just "la tarjeta" or the card.
    - cuvert 3mo ago
      And in Italy many people say Bancomat when they want to pay with the card even if they don't have a card with that circuit anymore.
      - touristtam 3mo ago
        It used to be the "blue card" in France (Carte Bleu)
        BlueTemplar 3mo ago
        That network still exists, and can now even be used preferentially over Visa/MasterCard, in particular when paying online.

toomuchtodo 3mo ago

Related: European Parliament committee backs digital euro - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48645468 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48645468 - June 2026

__rito__ 3mo ago

Can someone tell me why the EU doesn’t develop something like RuPay? Indian UPI gets mentioned a lot, but when Visa, Mastercard didn't agree with data sovereignty rules among other rules, India quickly developed RuPay [0]. Now most debit cards in India are RuPay. CCs stand at 18% share. They also integrate seamlessly to UPI. Why doesn’t the EU consider something like that? They want to jump direct to digital currencies? Is that it? Something else? [0]: Data rules came in 2017/18, RuPay was developed in 2012 iirc. But it got unprecedented push after the rule.

toomuchtodo 3mo ago
They are, it’s called Wero. It is a stopgap, and sits on top of SEPA. Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48207004 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48207004 - May 2026 (777 comments) Wero – Digital payment wallet, made in Europe - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47038965 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47038965 - February 2026 (132 comments) Europe's Banks Launch Wero Payments to Dislodge Visa, Mastercard - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41666833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41666833 - September 2024 (88 comments) Unofficial Wero Adoption Tracker - https://www.werotracker.eu/ https://www.werotracker.eu/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
- __rito__ 3mo ago
  Is Wero something you can hold in your hands? RuPay is just like Visa/Mastercard in the sense you get physical cards that you can use at ATMs, use at ecomm sites, etc. Wero doesn’t seem to be that. Am I missing something? Does making a new direct alternative to Visa/MC doesn’t make sense for the EU? If so, why?
  - lxgr 3mo ago
    Cards (as implemented in the US at least, i.e., with individual purchases not confirmed by the cardholder) are a relic of a different time in many ways. If you're building out a brand new system, why not make use of the computing device with input/output capabilities (that can be used to confirm amount, payee etc.) almost everybody already has in their pocket/purse anyway and instead rely on merchants being honest and only taking what they're owed out of your account without your confirmation? Of course physical cards will also play some role in any future EU payment system, if for nothing other than resiliency (a card works without any battery and is cheap to keep in a drawer or suitcase as a backup for a stolen phone) and sovereignty (note who makes most phones' operating systems and runs their attestation providers).

tancop 3mo ago

i hope the thing they roll out is a straight copy of pix from brazil. its fast, reliable, cheaper than debit cards and private (not anonymous but only the central bank can see your info). no corporations involved outside of support contracts and no stupid limits to make banks happy like this new proposal. and there should be a right to use all payment methods in the constitution or whatever the eu equivalent is. all stores must accept digital euro and physical stores also accept cash. crypto shouldnt be a part of the system but protected from being made illegal in any member state, privacy coins especially.

peterspath 3mo ago

Also clears the way to control how the digital euros can be spent. No thanks. Ideal/Wero is good. Use my credit cards for larger online payments. Mainly because it has insurance and makes it easy to dispute something. Last year a large Swedish clothing brand didn’t deliver 400 euros worth of clothing. They said they did. I have nothing. Customer service unhelpful. I disputed it with the bank where I have the credit card. The same day it was fixed.

vrganj 3mo ago
I'd rather have a democratically elected government in control than an unelected company that actively uses its power to censor things it doesnt like. [0] [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/29/mastercard-visa-backlash-adult-games-removed-online-stores-steam-itchio-ntwnfb https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/29/mastercard-vis...
- peterspath 3mo ago
  Except that parts of the union are not democratic at all. And in this specific case I kinda of agree with what they banned. And they are definitely not the only ones. Lots of financial institutions block these kind of things.
  - vrganj 3mo ago
    That seems like a rather big statement to make without anything to back it up.
  - lmm 3mo ago
    The EU has less democratic accountability than I would like, but it is there. National governments have been brought down over their poor choices at the EU level. Even if you think Visa/MC made the right decisions in these cases, the fact that they're being made by private companies accountable to no-one should worry you.
fidotron 3mo ago
This has been de facto true for a while, not that it improves the situation. Various EU countries have legal limits for the size of cash transactions, requiring you to do it via a bank. The idea that people have private property does seem to be something governments are incredibly keen to erode.

paulwilsontx01 3mo ago

might be time the europeans get a little democracy

mdp2021 3mo ago
What do you mean? Do not have us guess.

ano-ther 3mo ago

Here is a more technical description: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12525-025-00822-7 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12525-025-00822-7 I am still not quite sure how this would affect my day-to-day (private) payment experience transaction cost etc. But is has strategic value for Europe: > [...] European dependencies in critical technologies. A digital euro could mitigate these developments in the medium term if the infrastructure is mainly operated by European companies and if European payment service providers manage to achieve a leading position in the evolving ecosystem for digital euro services. Some more: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/timeline/profuse/shared/pdf/ecb.derdgp251030_RDG_progress_report_October_25.en.pdf https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/timeline/profuse...

egorfine 3mo ago
> how this would affect my day-to-day (private) payment experience You will need to pass KYC at every counter.
- ano-ther 3mo ago
  Well they already know me. I make about one small payment per quarter in cash, everything else via phone, card or bank transfer. So I don’t see the day-to-day difference with digital euro, except that the backend seems to have fewer intermediaries (and maybe lower cost for the merchant?). Also it would work in more than one country which is good.

unsigner 3mo ago

This sounds like "government issue Revolut". Which would be... low-key nice? Not a nefarious scheme, not a revolutionary future of money, just something to replace a certain part of your financial life without tying it to a commercial entity. Which might be appealing to the anti-capitalism segment of Europeans.

raron 3mo ago
I theory it should be more. The ECB claims you will be able to hold and spend a (limited amount of) digital euro offline (without internet connection).

Pooge 3mo ago

Isn't the Euro digital already? I don't understand... Is the buzzword just flying over my head?

raron 3mo ago
Not really. Euro cash today is paper / plastic banknotes and metal coins. Your account in the bank is not really cash you own, it is more like the banks liability towards you. If your bank fail, you loose the money you held in the bank (except the insured amount). If you have some cash, that's independent from any private company, and it must be accepted everywhere. Digital Euro should have the advantages of cash and the comfort of electronic payments, too.

frr149 3mo ago

Credit cards in Europe are a form of very short term credit: you spend and pay the entire balance on the next month. The is very different from the model in the US, which is designed to keep you in debt forever.

nottorp 3mo ago

So who else thinks of some crypto scam when they see "digital euro" ?

insane_dreamer 3mo ago

I don't understand why you need a "digital Euro" since debit card transactions are already "digital", and widespread in Europe (Girocard, Carte Bleu, etc.)? This sounds more like a cross-EU unified payment system/mechanism rather than a "digital currency" (which already exists).

raron 3mo ago
AFAIK the ECB wants to have both things. Digital Euro being a CBDC could open up a lot of possibilities, but they want an unified payment system, too, and that would be a nice first job for digital Euro.
- insane_dreamer 3mo ago
  I must be missing something because I still don't understand what differentiates a "Digital Euro" from "Euro stored in digital form". They're essentially the same. The reason why crypto currencies are different is the mechanisms by which they are exchanged (i.e., blockchain) or how they are issued (i.e., mining). The ECB already has control over how the Euro is exchanged and issued. The only thing a digital euro does is eliminate the cash aspect but these days that's a small amount, and they could also achieve by gradually retiring cash and shrinking the available amount (like Sweden has done).
  - raron 3mo ago
    The difference is more a financial or legal thing, than a technical one. From an users' perspective paying with digital Euro would work more-or-less the same as you pay today with card, bank transfer or something based on QR codes. But it will have very different guarantees and trusts behind the scene. Today you don't really think about keeping your money in a bank and paying with card as a different thing than having physical cash, because banks and payment services have very strict regulations and insurance schemes. Banks rarely goes bankrupt and even if they do, most of the people are not affected, because they get back their money from deposit insurance. Banks can create money from thin air (without the approval of the central bank) and lend it to you (and destroy when you pay your loan back), they can not do that with Digital Euro. Everybody would be able to convert all their Digital Euro to banknotes at the same time, but that would bankrupt any commercial bank. Banks can deny your request to open an account or provide payment services to you (e.g. what happened with the ICC judge), you can own Digital Euro without having a bank account. Banks pay interest for using your money (and the risk you take), this could even be negative that means some people even willing to loose money if they can have Euro instead of their original currency. Banks wouldn't be able to use your Digital Euro, you wouldn't get any interest on it. Digital Euro (the same way as physical cash), is a legal tender, money in bank and card payments are not. The value of Digital Euro doesn't depend on your bank, the numbers on your bank account could worth nothing if your bank goes bankrupt, central banks can not go bankrupt. Digital Euro (for a limited amount) could be exchanged directly between two peers like physical cash (offline, without connection to internet or any bank).

Geee 3mo ago

Horrible idea. It's a step towards single-tier banking like in the Soviet Union, where the central bank takes the role of commercial banks. There's no other reason for this than surveillance and control. There already exists multiple EU-wide payment systems handled by commercial banks. They just need to step up their game a little bit to get rid of Visa and Mastercard, which provide all the debit and credit cards.

dominojab 3mo ago
[dead]

throwawaypath 3mo ago

Will the digital Euro run on U.S. hardware and software?

mdp2021 3mo ago
Maybe requiring contracts that some would not sign. (A number of services today are already "Configure with the App, get it on Google".)

harrouet 3mo ago

"Digital Euro"... Do people realize that maybe 90% of money is already digital, i.e. sitting as bytes and numbers on banks' computers ? It seems to me that the actual problem that the EU is trying to solve it to find a tech managed by the ECB but that leaves space for the banks to keep existing in payment. They make a significant amount of money from Visa/Mastercard payments. But we don't need payment terminals anymore: phones and QR-Codes are enough. We don't need Visa or Mastercard: just route payment instructions from payee's bank to payer's bank. In Europe, we actually already have instant-payment through the SEPA network (i.e. IBAN transactions).

pjc50 3mo ago
> We don't need Visa or Mastercard: just route payment instructions from payee's bank to payer's bank. That sounds simple, but yet is basically nowhere as a payment infrastructure. Various countries have their own low friction payments, like Norways' Vipps; we "just" (hah) need to combine them into one European Voltron of payments.
- peterspath 3mo ago
  That is the goal of Wero

zoobab 3mo ago

1984.

egorfine 3mo ago

I reckon it will be KYCed as hard as imaginable - and then some.

reddalo 3mo ago
Aren't credit cards KYCed anyway?
- egorfine 3mo ago
  Yes, offline, in person, in the bank. But regulators will want more. So I fully expect a deeper KYC for the digital euro.

reddalo 3mo ago

> (Refiles to remove extraneous words before first bullet point) Why does the article start with that line? Looks like they forgot to remove part of their AI prompt...

port11 3mo ago

Pros: break the duopoly of Visa and Mastercard. Convenient. Low fees. Cons: in a couple of years, a well-meaning but idiotic EU official will try to restrict what you can buy with Digital Euros and demand that the police keep tabs on your purchases. You know, to “protect the children.”

spwa4 3mo ago

Decision makers celebrate making a small decision. Clearly the US should be shaking in it's boots.

penguin_booze 3mo ago

Good. Now replace USD for trades.