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How to be anti-social – a guide to incoherent and isolating social experiences
- dragochat 6mo agosome of these _are_ true _good_ advice for most ppl, beginner level as they may be, as by default they have been trained to be waaaaay too agreeable
- threepts 6mo ago"when all hope is lost in conversation, retreat into your self" I think this is a really valuable insight. Conversation sucks sometimes, solitude is beautiful.
- manmal 6mo ago> dig in your heels when confronted with overwhelming dissent Of course, the majority is always right and we should yield to it right away /s
- SirFatty 6mo agoEver heard the phrase "pick your battles"?
- fifticon 6mo agoMay the bridges I burn light the hills I die on.
- veltas 6mo agoCan I be your friend please. Also this document is basically just how I act, or how I would still act if I was less self-aware; some combination of the two. I suspect the author may have written this partly as a self-critique.
- bena 6mo agoYou don’t have to accept their conclusions, but they don’t have to accept yours either. You can walk away
- aforwardslash 6mo agoSometimes you just have to implement them :)
- mapontosevenths 6mo agoOne heuristic for spotting when you might be wrong is that you hold a very uncommon belief. It COULD be that you are correct and the world is crazy, but its far more likely that you are the one who is missing something. It's always worth stopping to double check when this happens. Perhaps more importantly, if you do happen to be right when everyone else is wrong its important to determine your goals. Is it more important to be right, or to be happy? If the answer is the latter then its sometimes best to just let people continue being wrong for the sake of being social. Nobody likes to be told they're wrong, so is "correctness" worth more than that person's feelings? Very oten it is not.
- unsupp0rted 6mo ago> sometimes best to just let people continue being wrong for the sake of being social There's almost no time when it's better to try to convince somebody they're wrong. It won't help you, and it won't work anyway, so it won't help them either. Sure if you're somebody's doctor, and even then you have to pick your battles.
- hackingonempty 6mo ago> Nobody likes to be told they're wrong I like to be told I'm wrong. While it is true that I am a nobody it means I'm about to learn something.
- mapontosevenths 6mo ago> I like to be told I'm wrong. I believe you, but in my own experience I've met more people who say this than who mean this. Usually it's situational. People might genuinely like to be wrong when the novelty is fun or useful, for example in lab work or in low stakes classwork. However, they despise it with politics, their job, or anything else that might have actual consequences in their lives.
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- fragmede 6mo agoAs someone who identifies as autistic, after particularly notable social encounters, I describe them, best I can, to ChatGPT, and damned if the thing doesn't explain why people reacted the way they did so I can do better next time.
- reactordev 6mo agoAs someone who identifies as autistic, I learned to smile and just listen. I’ll ask questions and try and put my little anecdotes in but for the most part I just let other people talk. Works reasonably well. I usually run afoul when the situation is serious and I show up with my smile.
- bananaflag 6mo agoWhat about when people start making fun of you for being silent?
- ashtonshears 6mo agoGiven the context of the discussion is about lacking social cues, its not possible to know the social setting to give you specific advice. However, I would suggest considering if the ‘making fun’ is in casual conversation or truly adversary. In casual conversation of someone making jest about your lack of speaking, just smile and say you are having a good time listening and hanging out. If they are actually making fun of you, never associate with those people again, they suck
- reactordev 6mo agoEmphasis on that last part. Hurt people hurt people, don’t let them hurt you too.
- gib444 6mo agoBut smile in the /correct/ way, else you'll be judged for smiling weirdly. Sigh
- sublinear 6mo agoThis list is actually just narcissism combined with low self-esteem. For younger introverts, none of this behavior is necessarily anti-social if the group all shares these same traits. The moment a member of that group has any higher self-esteem than the rest, they will either see that individual as "cool" or as a threat (or both). To be truly anti-social is to either completely isolate yourself, or be unrelentingly and unreasonably hostile in all interactions. This list is neither. It's just passive aggressive and a lot of ego.
- finghin 6mo agoI think the most important part of being antisocial is the ulterior motive for their hostility and refusal to situate themselves in an equitable or respectful social framework, which is invariably benefit to oneself. The type of benefit that an anti-social person seeks out is probably not like the usual suspects, though.
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- sillysaurusx 6mo ago> pivot conversations when someone challenges your assumptions or cites reasoning outside your wheelhouse It’s curious how many people do this. Especially if you try to address their deeply-held beliefs, they’ll just start talking about something else.
- throwanem 6mo agoThe real HN discussion guidelines.
- isoprophlex 6mo agoDont you tell me how to discuss anything on here!
- anshumankmr 6mo agoI think this rather describes someone with a cognitive bias which can be cured rather than someone truly anti social (I know someone who I believe is anti social but they tick off a lot more boxes than this. There is an overlap for sure in what you described BUT its a lot more complex than this)
- braiamp 6mo agoYeah, but many of those self-identify as anti-social rather than biased.
- Sol- 6mo agoThis seems to be a very peculiar and adversarial interpretation of anti-social. I am relatively anti-social and consider this a bit of a character flaw, but would generally say that I do not assume the worst in others and am relatively introspective. It just doesn't come naturally to me, but that does not mean that I think less of others.
- armchairhacker 6mo agoYou’re probably “asocial” Asocial = avoids people, quiet, misses social cues. i.e. doesn’t attract people Antisocial = cruel, obnoxious, remorseless. i.e. actively repels people
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- Pay08 6mo agoSociopaths don't actively repel people. In fact, they're quite good at attracting them.
- armchairhacker 6mo ago[dead]
- wavemode 6mo agoPsychopaths are calculated, charming, and organized, often blending seamlessly into society. Whereas sociopaths tend to be erratic, impulsive, and prone to outbursts and aggressive and reckless behavior. Psychopaths, I would say, are "quite good" at attracting people, by knowing exactly what to say. Sociopaths may sometimes attract people unintentionally, just by virtue of their impulsive personalities sometimes causing them to be "fun" to be around. In both cases though, people who know them well tend to be repelled by their lack of regard for the needs and feelings of others.
- gwbas1c 6mo agoI read this article as a joke; IE, how to NOT behave.
- reedf1 6mo agoThe other day someone described themselves to me as an 'empath' which was odd, because in the context of the discussion it was invalidating to hear. And ironic considering they hadn't forseen how I would take it. Some people have ultimate confidence in their social judgements and the true sign of empathy is a kind of meta-empathy that allows you to consider truly alternative understandings of the world i.e. empathy for empathy.
- nathanaldensr 6mo agoThat's not empathy, though. The word "empathy" has been co-opted to mean "understanding someone else's point of view," but that's not what empathy is. Empathy is feeling others' feelings. I'm actually empathetic in that I sometimes experience an emotional response (limbic) similar to an intense emotional response I witness others having, especially if they're a person close to me. This is very different than making a conscious attempt (prefrontal cortex) at intellectual understanding of someone's emotions.
- arowthway 6mo agoSounds like cognitive empathy vs affective empathy.
- reedf1 6mo agoI'm not so sure I agree - well maybe I do, I meant literally feeling in my statement not merely understanding. e.g. I eat meat - but I can literally feel the cringing sadness and disgust of a vegan if I imagine their perspective, even if I disagree.
- webstrand 6mo agoI don't think it's been co-opted? Mirroring the emotions of another person you're actively observing doesn't give you insight into why they're feeling that way. It's just mirroring, but its an excellent starting point for learning. To have empathy, for people you're not actively observing, or for future states of people you are observing, you have to be able to model them first, and then mirror the emotions that the model predicts, which can then update the model. This loop is empathy, its both "experiencing other's emotions" and "the ability to understand and predict".
- hoppp 6mo agoI am autistic and asocial fits more than anti-social because I am not actually doing any "anti" behavior, just trying to avoid the beurocratic small talk and general conformist interactions
- aqme28 6mo agoYeah, the behaviors in this post are more anti-social than asocial. I don't think it's meant to be about people who are shy, introverted, asocial.
- justonceokay 6mo agoI.e. the things that make people become friends and feel safe around each other. As a fellow autistic person we should not be avoiding small talk, we should be learning how to better connect with those around us since we need more time and work to do so. It’s easy to use a diagnosis as an excuse not to connect. But it’s a lame excuse. It is much more interesting to understand what tools we need to gain to connect with the world. Sometimes I need to be an anthropologist. Sometimes I need to be a crime scene investigator. Usually I just need to listen better. When I was in a wheelchair I had to use ramps instead of the stairs. But that didn’t stop me from going to the movies
- em-bee 6mo agoi am not autistic, but i hate smalltalk too. i can't bear it. it takes all the fun out of talking to people and i feel like it's a waste of time. not sure where i am going with this argument other than maybe saying that it's ok not to like smalltalk. maybe learning to be better at it would help, because the biggest pain and discomfort for me is that i don't know what to say and that anything i can think of feels meaningless. i "solved" the problem by moving to a country with a different native language and culture. this raises the barrier to communicate and it seems to have an effect of curbing smalltalk. while in a wheelchair, how comfortable were you asking for help? that would be the biggest challenge for me.
- justonceokay 6mo ago
- giannicmptr1000 6mo agoI like most people as long as they leave me alone.
- ernesto905 6mo ago> when all hope is lost in conversation, retreat into your self This speaks to me quite a bit, particularly around unfalsifiable topics I'll have with friends/family, such as theology. If we define hope as the idea they'll change their mind and agree with me, seems not much one can do but retreat into themself, right? I suppose I can sympathize with their sentiment before I retreat into myself, but taking this bullet point at face value I'm unsure how to make this a pro-social experience :/
- weett 6mo agoMaybe the trying to get people to change their mind part is where you're going wrong
- appreciatorBus 6mo agoIt’s possible to be social with people who hold opinions you disagree with. Being social and recognizing or even celebrating our shared humanity does not require having the same opinions and ideas as the other person.
- bityard 6mo ago100% agree. Unfortunately tribalism is very trendy right now, especially on social media and online communities.
- em-bee 6mo agoyes, but that means that hope is not lost yet. for me, all hope is lost when people stop listening if i said something they disagree with, even if i follow up with something they do agree with (which is usually my tactic in this case, find common ground, and then expand from there). to be social with people who disagree requires both sides to want to continue the conversation. both sides need to believe that having the same opinions is not required. if they don't want to continue then i can try as i might, but at that point hope is lost.
- appreciatorBus 6mo ago
- foo12bar 6mo agoHow about the old fashioned freezing with a face contorted in fear like your being held at knife point unable to think of anything to say and just waiting to be able to leave? When you get asked a question, fumble over your words and say something stupid. Later on, you can reflexively watch the memory played over and over again so you're even worse the next time. If you see anyone you met during the encounter afterwards, you can just panic and try to hide your face and escape. That's a lot easier and comes off more natural IMO.
- justonceokay 6mo agoIf any one single interaction makes you have such a response, that might be a reason to see someone. I wish for everyone to be able to move through the social world with grace and ease. Put less kindly: there’s nothing so special about you that being yourself around a new person should cause such a panic. Even if they take an instant dislike to you, that should be something you can take in stride
- arowthway 6mo agoWhat does "being yourself" even mean? Obviously not "acting the exact same way you act when alone", since this would be impossible/weird/rude/illegal but also not "acting intuitively without overthinking", since the socially anxious person's intuition is to run away.
- justonceokay 6mo agoI don’t mean like being “authentic” or whatever that means. In this conversation “being yourself” means literally you existing in that moment in your body. I can’t tell you specifically what being “yourself“ means. But I can absolutely tell you that if you panic when you meet a stranger that you are not centered in your own experience. Your mind is elsewhere. You don’t know this new person, so all of the panic in the situation is panic that you brought with you from the past and is not relevant to the current scenario For whatever reason your body believes that the stakes are very high. They might be, but even if they were, wouldn’t it be more adaptive to face the situation with the level head? Most people can do this 100% of the time and I bet that you could get there too
- everyone 6mo agoDoes kinda read like an engineer just had their 1st encounter with management.
- ashtonshears 6mo agoThis is soley a list of how to be explicitly negative internally and externally, the people in this thread equating it to disorders need to re-think the text. Its a list of what not to do as a human. With respect to all; there is an incredible amount of subtle communications that go into standard conversations
- themgt 6mo ago(Cognitive behavioral therapy enjoyer l just cut off in traffic) Think positively. He is probably in a rush for a reason. Maybe he's late for a job interview. Maybe his wife is giving birth Me: I'm da king of da highway
- lwkl 6mo agoWhat you should be thinking: Oh an unpredictable driver I should probably increase the distance between us.
- em-bee 6mo agoright, the reason does not matter. only my reaction matters. coming to a negative conclusion only induces rage. think positively but be cautious. it's simply self protection.
- venk12 6mo agothat list fits the bill for becoming POTUS
- perching_aix 6mo agoThe anti-social behaviors I'm seeing are a lot more primitive (engagement and reaction bait, and other "simulated conduct" as I like to call it), and the people engaging in them don't really need a guide. Sarcastic rants like this always strike me as somewhere between tonedeaf and insulting as a result. You know it perfectly well that it's those who should be minding these the most are the ones that never will (and won't even be reading this). That said, if I may be so hypocritical to add to the list, the heavy reliance on pointing out fallacies is a pretty big one. A lot of the times it simply degenerates conversations into logical golf, with no semblance of trying to actually understand the other person remaining. Though in those cases, that intent was usually never really present to begin with.
- tolerance 6mo agoI think that a willingness to interpret this as (good) satire can be used to indicate one's own level of socialization especially in adversarial contexts.
- sillywabbit 6mo agoAssuming that everyone you meet is conspiring against you seems to be a pre-requisite to these. The feasibility of that is questionable.
- doginasuit 6mo agoI think the most valuable thing here is to not jump to a negative assumption about people, something I wish it followed more closely in its other points. Virtually anyone who has a very different perspective than the group will face friction, and handling that friction gracefully isn't something that comes naturally to most people. People can get stuck in a pattern of handling the friction poorly, but the group as a whole also has the opportunity for grace and understanding that can diffuse the problem, if that is something that is valuable to them.
- legacynl 6mo agoI'm someone who is good at those situations, and what I've learned is that no matter how much you disagree, there's always something that you can agree on. If you're stuck in disagreement, zoom out, and try to move back to a position that you both can agree on.
- Zambyte 6mo agoIt's also important to not compromise on values you find personally fundamental for the sake of "finding common ground". It depends on the matters being discussed. Assume good faith, attempt to find common understanding by zooming out, but stand firm when you have zoomed out as far as you feel comfortable. If you push past that, you run the risk of validating insane or dangerous behavior or opinions.
- legacynl 6mo agoWhen I say find common ground I mean things that you (both) already agree with, i.e. it's bad to kill people, it's good to help people in need. It wasn't my intention to advocate for 'compromising on values' rather, I think the best way to do any discussion is being honest, and that starts with being honest about your values. I think the whole point of my method is to identify who is the person that's compromising their values, i.e. someone who agrees with "it's good to help people" but then disagree with social healthcare shows that somewhere on the imaginary line between helping people and social healthcare that person flips their opinion, which is incredibly helpful information in debating.
- zetanor 6mo agoonline sociability protip: writing in all lowercase outside of instant messaging comes across (to me) as weirdly manipulative, status seeking behavior. you want people to read your stuff and to come to some form of conclusion—you wouldn't be writing, editing and posting text otherwise—but you feel you have to put your ideas and your vulnerability behind a moat of detached, nonchalant aesthetics nothing personnel, kid
- pirates 6mo agohacker news is not such a loftier place that I treat it much differently than instant messaging. but even still, there are plenty of reasons why someone might write how they do. i promise you that i am not trying to be manipulative or status seeking, i just have auto capitalization turned off and I don’t give two shits if weirdos like you don’t like it. nothing personal kid
- catcowcostume 6mo agoYou wrote all that to some weirdo you don't give 2 shits? Even copied their closing quote? Hmm
- em-bee 6mo agohmm, i have been writing all lowercase almost anywhere since a few decades. but it most people have complained about readability. this is the first time that someone suggests that it is manipulative, status seeking. if i want people to read my stuff, then what kind of manipulation would writing all lower case accomplish? seems counterproductive. and if it is counterproductive then it can't really be manipulative in my favor. so why do it then? this is even more significant in german where all nouns are capitalized. there writing nouns in lowercase is not only an aesthetic difference, but a grammar violation. (and yet i do it anyways) which status would i be seeking? (i am actually asking myself this question. depending on the answer i find, it might even get me to change my behavior). writing all lower case has become a habit for me, that i stopped thinking about it. it's time to revisit that. interestingly at some point i decided to use capitals in blog posts. technically everything else is actually messaging, including email and HN. lastly, the article is a list. it is not clear to me that lists have to start with capitals, since list items are not always complete sentences. they don't end with a period either. so even when capitalizing properly, i am unsure whether they should be capitalized.
- bighead1 6mo agoa lot of these actually sound like good strategy for (upper) management, or those with executive aspirations (sadly).
- theteapot 6mo agoThe first 3 points are solid advice, but the rest read more like a guide on how to be successful in the work place in my experience.
- pickleglitch 6mo ago> exploit your immediate network; Sorry, networks, in this context, are too social for me, as they involve other people.
- djyde 6mo agoThis isn't a personality issue at all—it's pure disrespect. If someone treated me like that, I wouldn't befriend them or open up to them either. Sincerity is a two-way street.
- LeCompteSftware 6mo agoI've seen a lot posts like this recently. This comment is coming from the perspective of someone who the author would consider "anti-social": I once reported my boss to HR for a racist remark, and then resigned in protest. By 2026 I have embraced being a somewhat Diogenesian outcast and progressive hall monitor. I lost friends over it. So I find this post incredibly condescending, and it seems clearly directed at a few specific people this author had some sort of moral or political disagreement with. Which means the author is committing the exact sins he's inveighing against! I will be a little more specific: assume they have no sane reason for doing or saying what they are doing or saying Who exactly is assuming bad faith here? When I have a moral disagreement with someone it's rarely because they are ignorant or insane, it's because we have a fundamental difference in values. As a progressive, usually the person I disagree with is quite cynical and deeply rational. They might in good faith assume I am a bleeding heart who is also somewhat rational. Sometimes hearts are irreconcilable: a rich person I went to college with decided to become a for-profit landlord, so we aren't friends anymore. I simply think they're evil and won't associate with them. Stuff like that is always confusing and upsetting, often for both people involved; I am sure my landlord apostate friend didn't see what the big deal was. The author's "view from nowhere" posture is quite childish. assume intent is malicious, ignorant, or amoral. This is followed immediately by the author assuming malicious ignorance! "do not challenge or acknowledge the existence or influence of your assumptions, wholly trust your intuition and feelings" interpret others' actions in the context of your fears This is just pure sneering judgment. It doesn't mean anything, it's just name-calling. "People disagree with me because they're cowards!" exploit your immediate network; when the obvious merits of your narrative are exhausted, present like-minded people with tastefully curated details of your interactions with detractors, to provide a more appropriate account that your supporters can rally around to crush any lingering threats to your narrative Again there seems to be some very specific baggage here! Did he get in a fight on Twitter or something? Anyway, "your supporters can rally around" contradicts these people being "anti-social" and "isolating." Perhaps there are a large number of people who disagree with the author's values, and that's what he's really upset about. But rather than say "people disagree with me and I can't convince them otherwise" he is content to say "people disagree with me because they're antisocial cowards." This is itself antisocial and cowardly, isn't it? I think the author should be concluding "getting in fights on Twitter is bad for human souls." do not grant grace to those who make mistakes, especially those that you have never met or otherwise spoken to It does not seem like he is granting any of these anti-social people any grace, just a wall of unforgiving judgment. If they admit they are irrational weaklings then maybe the author will allow them a tiny helping of grace, as a treat. do not seek to understand those you do not already understand Indeed I get the impression the author doesn't understand me at all, and has no interest in doing so. It's a lot easier to just conclude I am a stupid coward.
- oa335 6mo agoMorality trumps sociability, something piece doesn’t mention. E.g. “ when ambiguous, assume intent is malicious, ignorant, or amoral” Most immoral actors cloak deliberately cloak themselves in ambiguity.
- legacynl 6mo ago> Morality trumps sociability, something piece doesn’t mention. IDK if I agree with that. If you could dissuade a nazi by biting your tongue and keeping the conversation going, wouldn't that be the morally right thing to do? > Most immoral actors cloak deliberately cloak themselves in ambiguity. Yes, but that still doesn't mean you should assume everybody to be one of those 'immoral' actors. Assume that somebody is normal, if they do something that proofs they're an 'immoral actor', only then assume that they're being dishonest.
- labrador 6mo agoAs a anti-social person and a misanthrope, these are all tips for amateurs that assume you must be in a relationship with other people. This is not true. One can be a hermit and enjoy the solitude. My comment here is not designed for replies and social interaction. I'm making it to test my idea against the wisdom of the crowds in case someone can enlighten me about where I might be wrong. I'm seeking information, not society. This is grating to me even as I write it. Who do I think I am? That doesn't make it any less true.
- dmbche 6mo agoYou are forced to see the world through your own biases (including things like having two arms and seeing the visible light spectrum, not just who you vote for). Many of these biases are common in humans, and humans can exchange ideas. It can be enlightening to test your biases against real human being to see which ones are valid and which ones are things you've picked up along the way and might not be fruitful to you now. Because you only see life through your own eyes, you definitionally can't examine yourself in isolation, and you can't know how you are affected by yourself. I've found exchanging with others fruitful, even when I don't want to and find it repellant. Have a good one
- labrador 6mo agoJohn Donne said "No man is an island" but other poets and philosophers have said we are essentially alone in this world. I understand the first point, but experience the second, but not fully because I do have a few valued connections with others. There are always exceptions to the general condition. You have a good one too.
- RankingMember 6mo ago> I've found exchanging with others fruitful, even when I don't want to and find it repellant. Agreed. It's almost like taking bitter medicine for me- I loathe the idea of going to outings and meeting new people, but however tired I am afterwards from masking, some part of me comes away better off for it (assuming I'm not being forced to do it all the time).
- 6mo ago
- euroderf 6mo agoThis reminds me of an old Andy Warhol quote that I can't find now, to the effect that if you find yourself in a truly lousy situation, just pretend that you are in a movie.
- criddell 6mo agoIs the modern version of that to think of the people around you as NPCs?
- analog8374 6mo agoThis is satire. He is describing the attitude generally demonstrated on social media.
- nnowack 6mo agoyea haha it was meant almost entirely satirically, and yea in part about online behavior. i also wrote it off hand in a couple minutes and didn't think a lot about it. the breadth of different interpretations has been very surprising to witness
- analog8374 6mo agoIt's got pop
- ge96 6mo agoI'm bad at this, not that I want to be. Well I'm bad at it with women. I go to these workplace happy hours and I just sit there in silence. Hard to relate to people talking about the house they own or kids since I don't have either. I know to be a good conversationalist you just gotta ask them questions. It's not good to be alone, I was in a car crash one time and my buddies pulled up on the scene and gave me a ride home.
- Nemi 6mo agook, so please don't take this wrong, but that last sentence was such a non-sequitur that I think I know what at least some of your problem is talking to other people. EDIT: wait, I am going to go out on a limb and say that you meant "I was in a car crash of a conversation one time and my buddies pulled up on the scene and gave me a ride home."
- ge96 6mo agoI was literally in a car crash and friends (not in the crash) helped me get home is what I'm saying eg. good to not be alone/make friends
- lunchbucket 6mo agoTheir meaning is very clear to me ("It's not good to be alone, for example one time I was in a lot of danger and a friend helped me").
- reedf1 6mo agohey not to give unsolicited advice but to share my experience - it took me a long time to realize that I'm not anti-social, but just anti-party and anti-work social. I flourish in most other spaces - especially hobby spaces.
- ge96 6mo agoyeah the thing is I'm good talking to dudes, like cars this guy shows me his Porsche/I sit in it, has laser jammers built in, crazy. Like yeah when you're both into something you just connect my problem with women is I only interact with them when I'm physically interested in them otherwise I leave them alone so yeah I'm on edge like "I gotta land her" kind of thing, which I'm not saying is good, as proof of this I haven't been in a relationship with a girl for 12 years, not that I haven't had the opportunity but I'm also picky which, I need to be impressive myself to match it but yeah
- elzbardico 6mo agoThe sociopath version: Do every thing on this list under the hood while presenting the exact opposite as a facade for public consumption.
- progbits 6mo agoI have a coworker who's clearly following this guide. So exhausting.
- slowmover 6mo ago"dig in your heels when confronted with overwhelming dissent" Sorry, sticking to this one. Call me anti-social if you want, but facing overwhelming dissent may indicate you're the lone free-thinker in an echo chamber. Being that one guy who's always prodding the hivemind with a pokey stick has value in my opinion (though you will end up getting stung on occasion).
- chasd00 6mo ago> facing overwhelming dissent may indicate you're the lone free-thinker You just better be right. If you're wrong then no one will ask for your input ever again.
- derangedHorse 6mo agoSometimes it's not about being the "free-thinker," but just fitting in. If you're in a setting where there can be 'overwhelming dissent,' I would say it's prudent to pause and consider what your goal is with pushing a certain idea. It's almost certainly not going to get the consideration it deserves to be accepted if a mass of people have a negative knee-jerk reaction to hearing it.
- asdfman123 6mo agoThe more important question isn't "are you correct," it's "does it matter to be correct right now?" Maybe you do actually know better than everyone else, but why do you have to prove it to others? You can just quietly make your argument and shut up. It's their loss, and people may remember that you were right. Maybe it's about an important decision at work, but if your correctness pisses everyone off, no one is going to listen to you again. You've won the battle but lost the war. People shouldn't be that way, but they are.
- zero-sharp 6mo agoI like this answer. For me it's not about showing others that you're correct. Instead, it's about feeling like you're being heard/acknowledged. I'm not trying to be the "lone free thinker". But if I see a hivemind, I occasionally insert my opinion with the intention of having a different perspective be recognized.
- vlindhol 6mo agoThis is one of my pet peeves. Not the "anti-social" character described in the post, but rather the poster's attitude. I've tried a few times to formulate to myself what it is that irks me, let's see if I manage to do it today: 1. Not every social interaction can (or should) be an objective weighing of ideas. It's not the other person's responsibility to enter into a formal debate with you at your local dive bar or whatever. 2. For their opinions to be valid, the other person doesn't need to conform to your idea of an acceptable conversation style (see 1). Also, in my experience, "anti-social" responses are detected more readily in the other person than in yourself, you're not as cool and collected as you think you are. 3. Feelings aren't forbidden. You may be a bit repressed yourself, meaning you feel shame or disgust when confronted with other people's feelings. Guess what... that's also a feeling! 4. If you repeatedly encounter these "anti-social" people in your life (which I guess OP does since he wrote a post about it) there's one common denominator: you. Can you honestly measure up to your own rules, OP? It takes two to tango. 5. There's a good chance you're sandbagging your conversation, meaning you're talking about some topic that you've thought about a lot, to a completely unprepared party. In my experience with people making complaints like OP, this is often combined with a controversial opinion about said topic. Instead of truly testing your idea against someone, you provoke an emotional reaction and celebrate your superiority because you staid calm and the other person exploded. Charlie Kirk was good at this unless he encountered actual experts. 6. Related to the above: come on, it's perfectly normal to get defensive and upset when you find you're losing an argument, don't act like you don't do it.
- thrie838r9fnr 6mo agoI got easier tip: bring large dog, that barks at everything and attack everyone 2 meters away. Bonus point if it has explosive diarrhoea in middle of grocery store or cafe!
- throw4847285 6mo agoAll over this thread people are saying things like, "this doesn't describe somebody who is anti-social, it describes a narcissist" or "I'm not anti-social, I am asocial." And it makes me think about internet discourse around neurodivergence and human diversity (not the racist dog whistle) more closely. It seems that the models that dominate are ones which sort people into categories that emphasize positive traits and explain away negative ones as, "Society demands X but I just need Y." This is an important corrective to the medicalized model, but sometimes I feel it obscures the degree to which people are malleable. A lot of our behavior is habitual, and if you change your habits, you can change your "personality" without rewriting your own temperaments. The other problem is one of causation. A group of people could all describe themselves as asocial, but what drives them to that label is entirely different. One legitimately needs less social interaction, one is riddled with social anxiety and has developed a deeply avoidant response, and one just hates people. They may be unified in feeling out of place in some social interactions, but what they need (or even don't need) is entirely different. I don't know. I couldn't sleep last night and this is all I could think about. What does that make me?
- browningstreet 6mo agoI'm so asocial I enter every group encounter with a mental timer to see how long the conversation just pivots to talking about TV shows.
- stronglikedan 6mo agoThat's not being anti-social. That's just being hard headed. Anti-social isn't always a bad thing, while being hard headed generally isn't in one's best interest.
- tamimio 6mo agoI never understood why “anti social” is seen as a negative trait, full of prejudice too (I mean, read that garbage article, passive aggressive BS too). Most people who built or achieved great or innovative things were anti social or at least didn’t waste their time bar hopping.. when people want to detox and disconnect, they go anti social, monks gurus you name it, also live in solitude, being alone will make you wiser and more creative if you are smart, and crazier if you are an average person, and covid lockdowns were a good example. From my observation, the more social a person is the more average they are, mediocre, wasting time in mostly useless interactions and sometimes even negative with all the peer pressure it brings, in fact, I would even argue the more social you are the more you become an outlier, a walking NPC who’s constantly under peer pressure, anxiety, and depression when not meeting impossible expectations. It’s a large scale gaslighting making a spectrum where an extrovert is good, introvert is bad, meanwhile the ones who are lifting the society and keeping it running are the introvert nerds.
- xg15 6mo agoDrama! It's an interesting list, and yeah, I'd say most are common sense and well put. But I'm still a bit very of those "negative lists". (I actually just found a webcomic which tries a similar approach - gives their characters intentionally the worst possible ways of interaction, with the "quest" of the story essentially being if they manage to grow and learn the right ones.) But in both, its easy to employ "persuasive game" strategies and have the reader "discover truths" that are really colored by the author's perception. Essentially, I'd like to know the context in which this was developed, so the whole list isn't just an instance of item #7 of it. Basically it reads as if someone could have written it in rage after some particularly bad conversation that didn't go their way.
- balamatom 6mo agoQC?
- xg15 6mo agoChildren of the Light, though haven't read QC yet. But from what I've heard, it sounded like it could qualify as well, yeah.
- balamatom 6mo agoCute! I like this. For what it's worth, though, the people I know to need emotional literacy the most, would probably find the art style extremely off-putting. I don't agree with them, but it's an interesting correlation to ponder. Could it be that people who react strongly aversively to such warm fuzziness identify it precisely with the things that have been done to their minds during development so that they would become incapable of certain fundamental cognitions?
- nnowack 6mo agoits very interesting to see the meaning folks have projected onto this haha i wrote this bulleted list in a couple minutes as a way to rant about the lack of charity i was noticing in 2 places - my family, where 2 members aren't speaking to each other for petty reasons, looking for the other to capitulate and admit they're the aggressor - on bluesky, where users are blaming every outage on "vibe coding"
- shishy 6mo agoThis must be the Opus 4.7 constitution
- poemxo 6mo agoI am guessing the author is either criticizing people who are anti-social (in the pop culture definition) or believes he was before and after some thinking arrived at the conclusion that antisociety was not the way. But I don't feel it describes my internal motivations, so I've translated them to my behaviors: - if someone is confusing or upsetting you, assume it is your fault - interpret others' actions in the context of your fears (this one is spot on) - assume your assumptions are wrong and that you shouldn't even bother - pivot conversations when someone asks you about something you actually know or are good at, it might be a trick, tell them you're dumb instead - if you must ask questions, convince yourself you must not, just figure it out instead - dig in your heels at no point in time whatsoever and just tell people the minimum they need to hear so they leave - do not develop narratives or it means you will have an immediate network - do not research the acumen or credentials of anyone - do not grant grace to those who make mistakes, they might actually be wrong and you're not a judge - when all hope is lost in conversation, pretend to take their side to end the conversation - do not seek to understand anyone at all
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- embii 6mo agoThis is closer to my internal thoughts as well, though I would say these thoughts fall more into "avoidant" than "antisocial".
- deejaaymac 6mo agoI mean, some of these are legitimate stragety to surviving corp America.
- scubbo 6mo ago> - if you must ask questions, convince yourself you must not, just figure it out instead God, this one hurts. In the first couple months at my new role (which I intentionally chose to be one that would stretch and challenge me as I'm looking for some professional growth), a senior member of my team expressed the view that he'd rather someone spend three days researching than ask him a thirty-second question. When I was already insecure about my position in the team and not wanting to appear incompetent, this has ironically sent me into a spiral of being _less_ capable and productive because I'm fearfully avoiding asking for any context or guidance. I'm struggling to break that cycle, but it's hard.
- nnowack 6mo agoauthor here: lmao how this got on hn i don't know i wrote this bulleted list in a couple minutes as a way to rant about the lack of charity i was noticing in 2 places - my family, where 2 members aren't speaking to each other for petty reasons, looking for the other to capitulate and admit they're the aggressor - on bluesky, where users are blaming every outage on ai if you took extra meaning from it, i'm sorry or congrats!
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- loganc2342 6mo agoSince most of these comments seem to be misunderstanding: antisocial /ăn″tē-sō′shəl, ăn″tī-/ adjective 1. Shunning the society of others; not sociable. 2. Hostile to or disruptive of the established social order; marked by or engaging in behavior that violates accepted mores. 3. Antagonistic toward or disrespectful of others; rude. Source: https://www.wordnik.com/words/antisocial https://www.wordnik.com/words/antisocial
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- asdfman123 6mo agoLinguist: language evolves based on how people use it Nerds hate him!
- YurgenJurgensen 6mo agoPeople say this a lot, but I bet you’re like most of them and don’t hold your tongue whenever people misuse words related to whatever you’re passionate about.
- asdfman123 6mo agoNo, I used to be a huge word nerd. Being really good at language was my identity for most of my adolescence. Now I realize "who cares" and "none of that matters."
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- DoughHook 6mo agoThis is a list about how to have a flame war. If you really want incoherent and isolating social experiences here is what you do: - spend most of your time online - overthink any form of social outreach and don't do it - open reddit/HN/youtube/content_platform when you feel anything negative - look at porn when you feel lonely - constantly analyze other people's perception of you You will then stifle your social skills and connections with people. You will feel extremely uncomfortable around other people most of the time. You will make niche references to things you have seen online and nobody will get you. Interacting with real people will be terrifying. Mission accomplished.
- asdfman123 6mo agoRight. Almost no one is that kind of asshole in person. Even in nerd meetups <5% are like this.
- infinite_spin 6mo agoeven when they are, it's not like that's their entire person, like people do have redeeming qualities even when I think they've been a jerk
- bluefirebrand 6mo agoThe part you're missing is that the people who hit those bullet points probably weren't always that way. In my experience they usually had very bad social experiences that drove them to isolate. That isn't necessarily an excuse. I strongly believe that after a certain point it's really on you to get over your hangups, especially if you're an adult. It may not be easy but it's necessary Anyways, I've never found that just telling lonely people "it is your fault you're alone" has ever been helpful
- anal_reactor 6mo agoI honestly think that most people suck and are not worth talking to. Sure, spending time with those who don't is extremely rewarding, but the rest is just a waste of oxygen.
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- notthemessiah 6mo agothe author wrote this in the Leaflet comments sections: """ through some upsetting turn of events, someone put this on hackernews and started a piranha feeding frenzy of speculation about what / who im referring to here. so just to be clear: i wrote this bulleted list in a couple minutes as a way to rant about the lack of charity i was noticing in 2 places - my family, where 2 members aren't speaking to each other for petty reasons, looking for the other to capitulate and admit they're the aggressor - on bluesky, where users are blaming every outage on "vibe coding" if you took extra meaning from it, i'm sorry or congrats! """
- cooper_ganglia 6mo agoThat Bluesky comment snuck up on me and got a good laugh from me! You mean the fine folks over at Bluesky, the social media network built around isolation, intolerance, and refusing to listen to other’s POV, exhibit these same character flaws?! Who’d’ve thunk? :)
- demux 6mo agoYeah the social media built on an open protocol where data is interoperable across apps isn't quite isolated
- cooper_ganglia 6mo agoIdeologically isolated, obviously. The basis for its existence is to supply a platform for people who want to isolate from ideas and narratives they find uncomfortable, so they self-select into echo chambers that cater to their preexisting ideologies. That's their whole business model!
- notthemessiah 6mo ago> platform for people who want to isolate from ideas and narratives they find uncomfortable Ahh, like how if you say the word "cis" on Twitter, you get banned because the idea that gender is not binary is an idea that the owner of Twitter finds uncomfortable wants to isolate the audience from. So he promotes his own tweets, shoehorns it into peoples feeds and notifications, in order to create an ideological echo chamber. Like that?
- nubg 6mo agoAKA the guide to how to write tweets for the @realDonaldTrump account
- shevy-java 6mo ago> if you must ask questions, imply the correctness of your originally held position by wording your question suggestively So, is the question legit? If so, why can it not be answered? This reminds me a bit of StackOverflow. "Question already solved" elsewhere. Well, before StackOverflow, people often asked a question, and were told "read the manual". So, were these people pro-social? Does the ORIGINAL position hold any merit when it comes to a question? HOW is it even inferred that a question was asked "suggestively"? These bulletin points are no good. They make too many assumptions. What does "anti-social" mean? When reddit moderators ban people and censor statements, is this pro-social behaviour? > when all hope is lost in conversation, retreat into your self What horrible recommendations. Hopefully AI wrote those, because I can not believe a human wrote that, not even as sarcasm. I don't even see any sarcasm there. How do you detect sarcasm in written text accurately? Is my text sarcasm? Everyone agree or disagree with that? People are different. All that attempt to group into social or anti-social, is rubbish nonsense from A to Z.
- nnowack 6mo agohi! author here. the post was satire
- RobRivera 6mo agoHa! I have been taking similar personal notes for writing a book. I am picking up what this author is putting down.
- anonu 6mo agoThere are way more ways to be anti-social.
- manykwh 6mo agoI spend 60 hours in solitude each weekend in silence, yet do none of these things?
- jancsika 6mo agoI feel like this was a) written by someone on the spectrum, who b) worked really hard to learn to communicate effectively (great job!), and then c) dumped their original internal state in a blog assuming everyone else has their same challenges. Just take their strongest point: > dig in your heels when confronted with overwhelming dissent A few months ago I watched a college-age people-pleaser assertively turn down three peers pressuring her to hang out after work somewhere she didn't want to go. Three! She stuck to her guns, then looked up and nodded to me. I subtly nodded back. Real cowboy shit. People are different and follow different paths of growth.
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- rnxrx 6mo ago- when all hope is lost in conversation, retreat into your self I get a bunch of the others, but this one kind of confuses me. What's the opposite (better?) move? Logorrhea? Forcing a confrontation? Reciting bad poetry? I suppose there's debate to be had about whether leaving a dead conversation is a retreat, but leaving the situation and pulling back a bit to think about the circumstances, one's mood, the people involved, etc seems like a good thing on balance.
- dnnddidiej 6mo agoYeah that is triggering reading the list. I know it is satire or whatever. But people with one of those traits you need to evict from your circle or minimize contact with.
- infinite_spin 6mo agoI'm not trying to be rude, but I think you might need to re-read this list
- dnnddidiej 6mo agoReread. Opinion is the same. Is this a meta comment?
- rambojohnson 6mo agoThe formatting here made it pretty hard to parse at first. For a good 10 seconds I genuinely thought I was looking at some bizarre run-on, non-sequitur sentences. Giving the main line items a bit more spacing would make it much easier to read.
- brailsafe 6mo agoI thought this was going to be about moving to a car-centric suburb
- sublimee 6mo agoLong story short: where I come from, alcohol is a main social driver. Once I stopped drinking, people started asking why I stopped, and some even suggested that people who do not drink are somehow less trustworthy. Then after a sports incident, I got a concussion. For a while I could not handle light, screens, noise, people, work, or normal social pressure. So I deliberately isolated myself until I could figure out how to get better. Here's my checklist: - Know why you're doing this and share with a close person; Someone else grounding you in your asocial trip can make a difference; - Read books, Jung helped me stay sane while in isolation; - Learn a new skill. I picked math and system programming as I realized it's easier for me to solve math problems and debug computers, rather than humans; - Assume your state of mind is temporary and you're doing it with a purpose; You're on your own, ignore the environment, find happiness inside your mind, don't seek too much external validation. Then your body will tell you if it's time to socialize or keep on deliberately introverting. Happy meditation.
- left-struck 6mo ago> if you must ask questions, imply the correctness of your originally held position by wording your question suggestively I don’t really understand this, what would an example look like?
- raybb 6mo agoIf my position is that we need to pass the regional transit funding measure in the Bay area then I might say: What do you think of the regional transit funding measure? Seems like it'd be a real disaster if BART stops running at 9PM. In that way you're signaling your support and they'll probably just continue the conversation in the same direction.
- matrix87 6mo ago> when ambiguous, assume intent is malicious, ignorant, or amoral. If you're in a toxic environment, this is what it's like. It's a culture problem, not an individual problem. Here are some examples, going to get anecdotal here: - People stealing credit for my work - Needing to kick them off of projects I'm on to protect myself - Getting into political standoffs with people trying to pressure and threaten me into arrangements that fuck me over - Had people I work with turn on me all of a sudden and try to throw me under the bus - A manager forcing someone to work with shitty consultants (who were, of course, a personal connection), then using it to throw them under the bus - People trying to gatekeep higher ROI work for favorites - Management lying to people and misrepresenting opportunities to get them to join, then rug pulling once they've signed on the dotted line The "antisocial" behaviors in the post are just the sort of rational emotional detachment which happens when you figure out that you're dealing with shitty people. Maybe I'll get genuinely antisocial here: a lot of people in general are shitty people. Or at least, if you've attracted shitty people into your life in the past, it'll keep happening in the future and you're better off growing the emotional scar tissue (i.e. "avoidant attachment") instead of this victim blaming. There's something about you that makes them target you and you're better off having the artillery ready
- theturtlemoves 6mo ago> If you're in a toxic environment, this is what it's like. I think you nailed it. People's behaviors are always adaptive to their environment.
- cindyllm 6mo ago[dead]
- Frederick0 6mo agoIt’s so beautiful that this blew up the author can’t believe it