9 ms·

An update on Steam / GOG changes for OpenTTD

342 points by jandeboevrie 7mo ago

beardsciences 7mo ago
I'm glad that Atari was willing to compromise at all. I'm happy with the updated response, and hope that it helps others understand the nuance of the situation. Anyone can still go download the main release from the official site.
- paxys 7mo ago
  How are people supposed to understand the "nuance of the situation" when they aren't even sharing it? What is the problem to begin with? Why can't both projects continue to exist independently?
  - striking 7mo ago
    The bundling might feel necessary from Atari's side because OpenTTD would compete with Atari's re-release on platforms like Steam and GoG (unlike on OpenTTD's website, where you're already at the end of the funnel for OpenTTD specifically and therefore Atari doesn't feel like they're losing a sale).
  - nemomarx 7mo ago
    OpenTTD started from the ip they now own, and it's possible Atari could try and prove that in court. I don't know if they would win, but why spend the legal fees here?
  - benoau 7mo ago
    The problem is copyright won't expire on the 1995 game until some time next century, while a French company that acquired Atari's name and copyrights 20 years ago is now asserting their exclusive rights over the IP.
    - limagnolia 7mo ago
      Does OpenTTD contain any Atari IP? I thought it was completely re-written, and did not include any of the original game assets?
      - benoau 7mo ago
        I don't think so but simply asserting their rights is complicated and expensive.
- RGamma 7mo ago
  Until the IP is flipped to another owner and the final squeeze begins. Gotta mirror this.
Lammy 7mo ago
> a compromise would be needed to balance Atari’s commercial interests (which of course they are entitled to pursue as the rights holder) No, fuck 'em. They had nothing to do with developing the game, and in a sane copyright structure a thirty-year-old work would be public domain by now.
- blizdiddy 7mo ago
  Agreed. Publishers need to be knocked off this absurd moral high ground. If merely being rich is enough for me to profit off of Miles Davis songs for decades after his death, copyright is just another wealth redistribution to the rich. Steal all the games and music, and any ghoul that claims I’m stifling creativity can compare their compositions to mine.
- Dylan16807 7mo ago
  Well, they shouldn't be entitled but they are entitled.
- maybewhenthesun 7mo ago
  > in a sane copyright structure You are not wrong. But alas we don't have that. ANd in the reality we live in this collaboration is way better than the alternative.
  - blizdiddy 7mo ago
    We know what the law is… the law is bullshit. Is it easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism?
    - AndrewDucker 7mo ago
      What you can imagine has very little to bear on what they can get away with without being legally shut down.
    - passivegains 7mo ago
      I mean, yeah. There's enough nukes locked and loaded around the globe to end human civilization as we know it in minutes. Nobody's made a bomb that can fix socioeconomics.
paxys 7mo ago
I'm sure I'm missing some context but what is Atari's role here exactly? Isn't OpenTTD an independent and fully legal project? What is Atari's basis for asking for a "compromise"? Or is it just the case that the project maintainers got paid off?
- Closi 7mo ago
  Atari own all the IP and copyright. While OpenTTD is open source, it's basis is really that the original game was reverse-engineered, originally using the original assets, and then rebuilt. Also all the map data etc is owned by Atari, so you need to have a 'genuine' copy to access all the levels etc.
  - paxys 7mo ago
    What copyright? OpenTTD doesn't copy any code or assets from the original game. It is a ground-up rewrite. There is no copyright violation.
    - sylos 7mo ago
      I read somewhere that it's not a clean room rewrite but rather it started off as a reverse engineering.
    - designerarvid 7mo ago
      Reproducing someone’s intellectual property and publishing it is exactly what constitutes a copyright violation. You can retype someone’s book with your keyboard, it’s still not yours.
      - Sharlin 7mo ago
        Reproducing the surface behavior of a program, no matter how faithfully, is not in itself copyright violation if it's a cleanroom implementation. But int this case it's not to write the new one, the developers studied (and manually translated to C++) the original code, not just the program's behavior. So this is more of a case of a derived work, like a translation of a novel.
CivBase 7mo ago
> we have not been “pressured” by Atari to make these changes. > Atari approached us to explain their plans for the Transport Tycoon Deluxe re-release, and what it might mean for OpenTTD. > we understood that a compromise would be needed to balance Atari’s commercial interests […] against the availability of a free, well-developed evolution of the game. Sounds to me like you were pressured by Atari to make these changes.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- speefers 7mo ago
  [dead]
- calibas 7mo ago
  Everyone's being diplomatic, including most of the HN comments. This seems to be the simplest compromise, and allows OpenTTD to continue existing without too many problems from Atari, so people don't want to make waves.
- NietTim 7mo ago
  There is no way not to, OpenTTD has 0 cards to play since everything is explicitly build on IP that is not theirs, and they know it. They were "not pressured" because Atari didn't utter threats to them, it didn't need to come to that because the OpenTTD people were reasonable, and so was Atari. Not sure why so many commenters are failing to grasp this.
junaru 7mo ago
Atari is releasing an inferior product and needs the superior community one delisted. The remaster cannot compete, simple as.
- ethanrutherford 7mo ago
  it is neither being delisted, nor was it requested to be. As far as rights holders exercising their rights, this is about the most collaborative way it could have gone. Not every rights holder is a John Carmack.
  - WarcrimeActual 7mo ago
    [flagged]
mhitza 7mo ago
The initial post has omitted any reason for the change. Of course people would speculate, including in the HN comments. What seemed majority at the time was the idea of some collaboration/partnership and monetary exchange. I think its a good lesson in communication, especially when you have a dedicated community. Transparency is welcome. Regarding Atari and "their rights", there hasn't been an Atari for way too long and the IP was passed between companies left and right without additive value to users. I expect transport tycoon to be another cash grab, but happy to be surprised for the better.
- maybewhenthesun 7mo ago
  Atari being the commercial firm it is, I could very well imagine that stuff was under NDA. Just 'by default', because that's what the lawyers like. And only when angry speculations emerged they could be persuaded to just openly communicate. Or the OpenTTD guys were not the best communicators. Considering it's the OpenTTD creators live at the intersection of the groups 'programmers' and 'adults who like to play with train sets' it wouldn't be a stretch. All in all I think this collaborative approach is very much the preferred outcome. All those people saying 'the open web is dead' and 'people don't download from websites anymore' are exaggerating imo.
legitster 7mo ago
As a sidenote, this whole situation implies just how important platforms are. Nothing about OpenTTD has changed. You can literally just go download it off their website for free - same as it was 20 years ago. And you can add it to your Steam library just fine. It's only been on the Steam store for 5 of those years. But the open internet is dead now and just being "de-merchandised" from a platform feels like being relegated to the dark web (maybe something the open source community doesn't quite fully appreciate).
- lstodd 7mo ago
  Open internet is dead only to those that don't take the effort to discover. Otherwise it's still as open as it always was. Since there was an internet to speak of, there always were and still are vast amounts of people unaware of stuff that exists, limited by no "platforms" but only by their own lack of desire.
  - throwaway0q5347 7mo ago
    > limited by no "platforms" but only by their own lack of desire. Or Google's low ranking of their content
    - lstodd 7mo ago
      I don't even. Relying on third-party ranking of whatever is a clear indicator of lack of effort.
      - StableAlkyne 7mo ago
        Short of developing psychic abilities, how would you then address the discoverability problem without relying on a third party? Forums, search engines, social media, and link aggregators are all third parties with their own ranking. Nobody outside of a handful of small-web hobbyists have put a "cool links" section into a website since 1997.
        7mo ago
999900000999 7mo ago
This is beyond reasonable. You can still download it for free outside of Steam. If I make a Sonic fan game and Sega is like, you can keep it online, but just not on Steam, that’s nice. In this situation you still have the option of playing it on Steam for a modest price The alternative is the Nintendo route…
- applfanboysbgon 7mo ago
  One alternative is the Nintendo route. Another is the Hololive route, wherein they started a publishing brand for indie fangames which they actively support and promote on an official Steam store page. Another example being Touhou, a one-man indie franchise with permissive commercial derivative works licensing, which has become a cultural phenomenon in Japan and to a lesser extent overseas thanks to an absolutely vibrant community that has made millions of fan illustrations, tens of thousands of albums, and thousands of fangames, hundreds of which are sold on Steam. If megacorps would stop being stuck up their own ass and completely irrational about how they exercise their IP rights, they would actually be able to benefit massively from allowing their fan communities to flourish. The status quo doesn't have to be this shitty, and we don't necessarily need to give credit to companies who meet the incredibly low bar of "not Nintendo".
  - 999900000999 7mo ago
    Steam is not the only way to play games. Atari is very kind to say you can keep distributing a fan game, just not on a commercial storefront. I don’t expect to see Sonic Fan games on Steam anytime soon. Even though Sega is one of the best publishers in this regard. Now if OpenTDD said no , we’re leaving it on Steam for free ,Atari could probably contact Valve to get it delisted. A compromise is not a loss. I’ve downloaded tons of applications and games without Steam holding my hand and somehow I’m ok. Although I do wish sandboxing solutions with better gpu support existed
    - Suppafly 7mo ago
      >Atari is very kind to say you can keep distributing a fan game How are they kind for agreeing to something they have no control over in the first place. OpenTTD doesn't use any IP that Atari has any ownership over.
ApolloFortyNine 7mo ago
>Additionally, as part of the discussions we held, Atari agreed to make a contribution towards the running costs of our server infrastructure. We are also extremely grateful for the many donations that have come in over the past few days from users - your support will help keep our services going, and it is deeply appreciated. That's pretty cool of them.
- charcircuit 7mo ago
  Without knowing the rev share it could be exploitative. If OpenTDD is being sold commercially Atari shouldn't be taking all the money from all the hard work that people have put into the project over the years.
  - singpolyma3 7mo ago
    It's clearly exploitative
    - Lammy 7mo ago
      Agreed. Effectively-nobody would be interested in buying it if it weren't for OpenTTD and all the improvements they've made over the years. It's absurd that some company can buy up and profit from thirty-year-old formerly-abandonware, and that society have been collectively browbeaten into believing in the notion of “““intellectual property””” at all.
  - WarcrimeActual 7mo ago
    Thing is, they own it. They have every right to cease and desist, I assume, and haven't. That's generous compared to most companies reactions already.
    - JoshTriplett 7mo ago
      > Thing is, they own it. No, they don't. They own the game data, and the original game engine. They don't own the reimplemented Open Source game engine. OpenTTD did not have to do anything here. It sounds like they had a very positive interaction with Atari, in which Atari is providing them with some support and collaboration, and in exchange for that, OpenTTD agreed to formalize the requirement for "you need to own the original game data" by having people on game stores purchase the original game through them before getting OpenTTD through them. That seems like a pretty reasonable approach. It should be held up as a good model for collaboration. But it shouldn't be treated as "they have every right to [demand a] cease and desist".
maCDzP 7mo ago
Now with AI I wonder if it’s possible to just let agents build a perfect emulation of the game. It reminds me of fuzzers. You let the agent go loose on the game and it brute forces every possible state. Then recreates the code. It’s very inefficient- but it probably works.
- nemomarx 7mo ago
  Why would you when an open source version already exists?
- bigfishrunning 7mo ago
  So https://malus.sh/ https://malus.sh/ Good luck with all that
  - k4rli 7mo ago
    Is this service a joke? I'm not even sure after reading the reviews at the bottom there.
    - bigfishrunning 7mo ago
      Haha yeah its a joke, but it sure is prophetic
- einr 7mo ago
  You’re going to brute force every possible state of a sandbox building game. See you on the other side of the heat death of the universe; hope you stocked up on Claude Code credits.
yellowapple 7mo ago
In situations like this it's odd to me that the rightsholder wouldn't just sell an official build of the FOSS reimplementation with the assets (legally) included. If some of the proceeds end up going toward the FOSS reimplementation's donations then it seems like an easy win-win.
- sho_hn 7mo ago
  There are actually cases this has happened in (e.g. re-releases using ScummVM under the hood; id basing products on community source ports, etc.), but it's not always that simple. Chris Sawyer as creator for example is known to have particular opinions on this as I recall, and if you e.g. look over to film making there's also a hot debate over preserving original artistic intent and original creations over later remasters. OpenTTD is more than a maintenance upgrade, it's a continuation and a different game. Honestly I think it's probably just OK what Atari has done here. Monetizing the original assets is well in their rights both legally and morally (especially considering e.g. royalities to Chris), OpenTTD remains available everywhere, they're monetarily supporting OpenTTS, gamers will find it. Note that once a commercial company decides to ship a FOSS project, they also are much more invested in potentially controlling its direction to different ends. This setup keeps OpenTTD community-run and independent, free to make decisions independent of a commercial agenda. This also feels worth protecting.
  - bombcar 7mo ago
    Another example is Heroes III with VCMI and HotA and other similar things. Some are attempts to do a bug-for-bug "vanilla" recreation, others expand on it in defined ways, still others add new features "in the spirit" of the original. When you get to the last, you can definitely see how the original creator/artists could disagree.
aeturnum 7mo ago
I don't have much to add except to say that I think this is a stand-out example of how companies and preservationists should work together and not against each other. The childish folks who are upset about this aren't familiar with the realties of either open source games perseveration nor the realities of being an IP holder. This is as close as we have gotten to the Good Place. I wish Atari luck on the re-release and I hope that anyone who's upset about it reflects on why they are upset.
- superxpro12 7mo ago
  This is about as much as you can hope for tbh. More than a fair compromise. Society has become quite 'entitled' to 'free' things. As popular as they are, torrents and free streams and emulation and clones of games in an open source lib are all stealing something. I know thats an unpopular thing to say but it a fact. Now, those rights violations viewed in a larger context may change one's opinion on the whole, and I'm not jumping into that debate today. Atari did a cool thing. That's rare in the corporate world today. Give praise where it's deserved.
  - AuthAuth 7mo ago
    Are they really stealing it though? They only brought the IP 30 years later they didnt make it or put any work towards it. The openTTD community has easily done 100x the work to extend the game.
    - ThunderSizzle 7mo ago
      This makes me wonder why squatter's rights are not a thing here...but I don't know much about the current and previous legal status of the open genres like OpenTTD.
  - arvid-lind 7mo ago
    > ...all stealing something. I know thats an unpopular thing to say but it a fact. This is an unpopular opinion because it is not, in fact, a fact.
  - 7mo ago
jwitthuhn 7mo ago
So they were not "pressured" but Atari contacted them and they proceeded to make this decision based because they "needed to balance Atari’s commercial interests". That sound indistinguishable from being pressured.
- singpolyma3 7mo ago
  Indeed. It sounds like they were further pressured to say they were not being pressured.
  - JoshTriplett 7mo ago
    The types of folks who make reimplemented game engines often do it as a labor of love towards the original. And the best companies often have great appreciation for their modding communities and preservationists. (Witness the good collaborations between some companies and SCUMMVM, for instance.) This may well have been a conversation that was entirely reasonable and respectful.
    - singpolyma3 7mo ago
      I just can't believe that given the outcome and the wording of the posts from the project. If there was respect here there would have been no threats. If there were no threats there would be no talk of "balancing commercial interests"
- IshKebab 7mo ago
  I think they're saying Atari didn't threaten them but they both understood that they could have. Honestly it sounds like Atari were trying to be nice. Like "you technically aren't allowed to do that, and we could just set our lawyers on you, but we'd like to not do that while also making money on our re-release". This seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise to me.
  - singpolyma3 7mo ago
    How is "I haven't talked to my lawyer yet but you know I could" not a threat/pressure?
shevy-java 7mo ago
Would be nice to see OpenTTD on Steam/GOG, for a younger audience. Some games have a good replayfactor. Transport Tycoon Deluxe was nice in this regard; the spirit should be retained so younger folks can play it.
mikkupikku 7mo ago
Seems reasonable to me. Back when I started playing OpenTTD, about 20 years ago, you had to provide your own data files from your ostensibly legal copy of TTD. They changed that after they started distributing free alternative graphics, but to be frank the strict legal status of both OpenTTD and OpenRCT2 has always seemed mildly dubious to me, on account of both projects being based off disassembled code. Atari is being fairly reasonable and gentlemenly about this.
NietTim 7mo ago
I am very happy that this long stand grey area licensing situation around something I enjoy deeply has been resolved in what seems like the most perfect way possible
c12 7mo ago
In a world full of Nintendos, be Atari.
nubinetwork 7mo ago
> please be nice to Atari You're not my mom...
1313ed01 7mo ago
After installing TTD from GOG I panicked a bit, not seeing any DOSBox or DOS files. For a moment I thought it was files from an old Windows 95 version only, but there was (also) a DOS installer (INSTALL.EXE). I ran that, went through all the usual steps (select Sound Blaster IRQs and so on) and now I can run it from my virtual (git-managed) DOS disk install directory where I install all my DOS games and applications. Next to the original TT that I installed a few months ago from an old CD-ROM. For completeness.
zeeshdev2887 7mo ago
[dead]
dang 7mo ago
Recent and related. Others? Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47381746 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47381746 - March 2026 (131 comments)
- 2postsperday 7mo ago
  I don't really get why you put 'Others?' What kind of question is 'Others?' is doesn't even make any sense. It just pisses me off.
  - dang 7mo ago
    I'll happily explain it if you'll agree to stop making accounts to break HN's rules with. (You're welcome here personally. We just want you to respect the intended use of the site.)
halo 7mo ago
Wonder if the reaction would be the same if Wine was conditional on buying a license to Windows.
- TobTobXX 7mo ago
  Well IF Microsoft would also collaborate with Wine... I think I'd pay for a Windows License if it means I get official support for Windows apps on Linux (provided the support is indeed good).
- danparsonson 7mo ago
  Wine is not a full reimplementation of Windows, so not an analogous situation.
rvnx 7mo ago
Perhaps it is time for the law to evolve so softwares that are abandoned for x years become public domain (like Epic Pinball, Age of Empires, etc)
- joemi 7mo ago
  Isn't it already like that, more or less, but the length of time it takes is longer than any software has so far existed?
samrus 7mo ago
you know, given that i've often said "if youre getting it for free, your the product" i am ok with this its not really possible for the rights holder to compete with a free product, since they arent harvesting data or oxploiting the userbase, so they need to charge. and openTTD getting a cut of the money really does show that this is fully collaborative
swiftcoder 7mo ago
This feels like absolute best-case scenario for an open-source clone interacting with a rights holder looking to re-release the original. Really glad to see their willingness to work together, instead of just torpedoing the open-source project
ivanjermakov 7mo ago
Steam version of OpenTTD didn't make much sense to me, since I'm running JGRPP fork (https://github.com/JGRennison/OpenTTD-patches https://github.com/JGRennison/OpenTTD-patches). I wonder how many players won't be affected by its Steam disappearance. Similar issue with other heavy modded games, such as Kerbal Space Program. The best way to handle multiple saves with different modpacks is multiple game installations, which is against the grain for the Steam version.
bluejay2387 7mo ago
This looks like one of the rare instances where a company tried to balance their commercial interests with the interest of the fans of their products. I don't see why people would be complaining?
MisterTea 7mo ago
> Some have suggested that we should have chosen to remove OpenTTD from Steam and GOG entirely, but that would have caused unnecessary disruption to the many thousands of people currently enjoying the game on these platforms, and would have potentially prevented new players from discovering the game in future. Is there no way either platform can simply stop selling the game and de-list it from the store yet people who purchased it can continue to play uninterrupted?

342 points by jandeboevrie 7mo ago

I'm glad that Atari was willing to compromise at all. I'm happy with the updated response, and hope that it helps others understand the nuance of the situation. Anyone can still go download the main release from the official site.

paxys 7mo ago
How are people supposed to understand the "nuance of the situation" when they aren't even sharing it? What is the problem to begin with? Why can't both projects continue to exist independently?
- striking 7mo ago
  The bundling might feel necessary from Atari's side because OpenTTD would compete with Atari's re-release on platforms like Steam and GoG (unlike on OpenTTD's website, where you're already at the end of the funnel for OpenTTD specifically and therefore Atari doesn't feel like they're losing a sale).
- nemomarx 7mo ago
  OpenTTD started from the ip they now own, and it's possible Atari could try and prove that in court. I don't know if they would win, but why spend the legal fees here?
- benoau 7mo ago
  The problem is copyright won't expire on the 1995 game until some time next century, while a French company that acquired Atari's name and copyrights 20 years ago is now asserting their exclusive rights over the IP.
  - limagnolia 7mo ago
    Does OpenTTD contain any Atari IP? I thought it was completely re-written, and did not include any of the original game assets?
    - benoau 7mo ago
      I don't think so but simply asserting their rights is complicated and expensive.
RGamma 7mo ago
Until the IP is flipped to another owner and the final squeeze begins. Gotta mirror this.

Lammy 7mo ago

> a compromise would be needed to balance Atari’s commercial interests (which of course they are entitled to pursue as the rights holder) No, fuck 'em. They had nothing to do with developing the game, and in a sane copyright structure a thirty-year-old work would be public domain by now.

blizdiddy 7mo ago
Agreed. Publishers need to be knocked off this absurd moral high ground. If merely being rich is enough for me to profit off of Miles Davis songs for decades after his death, copyright is just another wealth redistribution to the rich. Steal all the games and music, and any ghoul that claims I’m stifling creativity can compare their compositions to mine.
Dylan16807 7mo ago
Well, they shouldn't be entitled but they are entitled.
maybewhenthesun 7mo ago
> in a sane copyright structure You are not wrong. But alas we don't have that. ANd in the reality we live in this collaboration is way better than the alternative.
- blizdiddy 7mo ago
  We know what the law is… the law is bullshit. Is it easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism?
  - AndrewDucker 7mo ago
    What you can imagine has very little to bear on what they can get away with without being legally shut down.
  - passivegains 7mo ago
    I mean, yeah. There's enough nukes locked and loaded around the globe to end human civilization as we know it in minutes. Nobody's made a bomb that can fix socioeconomics.

paxys 7mo ago

I'm sure I'm missing some context but what is Atari's role here exactly? Isn't OpenTTD an independent and fully legal project? What is Atari's basis for asking for a "compromise"? Or is it just the case that the project maintainers got paid off?

Closi 7mo ago
Atari own all the IP and copyright. While OpenTTD is open source, it's basis is really that the original game was reverse-engineered, originally using the original assets, and then rebuilt. Also all the map data etc is owned by Atari, so you need to have a 'genuine' copy to access all the levels etc.
- paxys 7mo ago
  What copyright? OpenTTD doesn't copy any code or assets from the original game. It is a ground-up rewrite. There is no copyright violation.
  - sylos 7mo ago
    I read somewhere that it's not a clean room rewrite but rather it started off as a reverse engineering.
  - designerarvid 7mo ago
    Reproducing someone’s intellectual property and publishing it is exactly what constitutes a copyright violation. You can retype someone’s book with your keyboard, it’s still not yours.
    - Sharlin 7mo ago
      Reproducing the surface behavior of a program, no matter how faithfully, is not in itself copyright violation if it's a cleanroom implementation. But int this case it's not to write the new one, the developers studied (and manually translated to C++) the original code, not just the program's behavior. So this is more of a case of a derived work, like a translation of a novel.

CivBase 7mo ago

> we have not been “pressured” by Atari to make these changes. > Atari approached us to explain their plans for the Transport Tycoon Deluxe re-release, and what it might mean for OpenTTD. > we understood that a compromise would be needed to balance Atari’s commercial interests […] against the availability of a free, well-developed evolution of the game. Sounds to me like you were pressured by Atari to make these changes.

deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
speefers 7mo ago
[dead]
calibas 7mo ago
Everyone's being diplomatic, including most of the HN comments. This seems to be the simplest compromise, and allows OpenTTD to continue existing without too many problems from Atari, so people don't want to make waves.
NietTim 7mo ago
There is no way not to, OpenTTD has 0 cards to play since everything is explicitly build on IP that is not theirs, and they know it. They were "not pressured" because Atari didn't utter threats to them, it didn't need to come to that because the OpenTTD people were reasonable, and so was Atari. Not sure why so many commenters are failing to grasp this.

junaru 7mo ago

Atari is releasing an inferior product and needs the superior community one delisted. The remaster cannot compete, simple as.

ethanrutherford 7mo ago
it is neither being delisted, nor was it requested to be. As far as rights holders exercising their rights, this is about the most collaborative way it could have gone. Not every rights holder is a John Carmack.
- WarcrimeActual 7mo ago
  [flagged]

mhitza 7mo ago

The initial post has omitted any reason for the change. Of course people would speculate, including in the HN comments. What seemed majority at the time was the idea of some collaboration/partnership and monetary exchange. I think its a good lesson in communication, especially when you have a dedicated community. Transparency is welcome. Regarding Atari and "their rights", there hasn't been an Atari for way too long and the IP was passed between companies left and right without additive value to users. I expect transport tycoon to be another cash grab, but happy to be surprised for the better.

maybewhenthesun 7mo ago
Atari being the commercial firm it is, I could very well imagine that stuff was under NDA. Just 'by default', because that's what the lawyers like. And only when angry speculations emerged they could be persuaded to just openly communicate. Or the OpenTTD guys were not the best communicators. Considering it's the OpenTTD creators live at the intersection of the groups 'programmers' and 'adults who like to play with train sets' it wouldn't be a stretch. All in all I think this collaborative approach is very much the preferred outcome. All those people saying 'the open web is dead' and 'people don't download from websites anymore' are exaggerating imo.

legitster 7mo ago

As a sidenote, this whole situation implies just how important platforms are. Nothing about OpenTTD has changed. You can literally just go download it off their website for free - same as it was 20 years ago. And you can add it to your Steam library just fine. It's only been on the Steam store for 5 of those years. But the open internet is dead now and just being "de-merchandised" from a platform feels like being relegated to the dark web (maybe something the open source community doesn't quite fully appreciate).

lstodd 7mo ago
Open internet is dead only to those that don't take the effort to discover. Otherwise it's still as open as it always was. Since there was an internet to speak of, there always were and still are vast amounts of people unaware of stuff that exists, limited by no "platforms" but only by their own lack of desire.
- throwaway0q5347 7mo ago
  > limited by no "platforms" but only by their own lack of desire. Or Google's low ranking of their content
  - lstodd 7mo ago
    I don't even. Relying on third-party ranking of whatever is a clear indicator of lack of effort.
    - StableAlkyne 7mo ago
      Short of developing psychic abilities, how would you then address the discoverability problem without relying on a third party? Forums, search engines, social media, and link aggregators are all third parties with their own ranking. Nobody outside of a handful of small-web hobbyists have put a "cool links" section into a website since 1997.
      - 7mo ago

999900000999 7mo ago

This is beyond reasonable. You can still download it for free outside of Steam. If I make a Sonic fan game and Sega is like, you can keep it online, but just not on Steam, that’s nice. In this situation you still have the option of playing it on Steam for a modest price The alternative is the Nintendo route…

applfanboysbgon 7mo ago
One alternative is the Nintendo route. Another is the Hololive route, wherein they started a publishing brand for indie fangames which they actively support and promote on an official Steam store page. Another example being Touhou, a one-man indie franchise with permissive commercial derivative works licensing, which has become a cultural phenomenon in Japan and to a lesser extent overseas thanks to an absolutely vibrant community that has made millions of fan illustrations, tens of thousands of albums, and thousands of fangames, hundreds of which are sold on Steam. If megacorps would stop being stuck up their own ass and completely irrational about how they exercise their IP rights, they would actually be able to benefit massively from allowing their fan communities to flourish. The status quo doesn't have to be this shitty, and we don't necessarily need to give credit to companies who meet the incredibly low bar of "not Nintendo".
- 999900000999 7mo ago
  Steam is not the only way to play games. Atari is very kind to say you can keep distributing a fan game, just not on a commercial storefront. I don’t expect to see Sonic Fan games on Steam anytime soon. Even though Sega is one of the best publishers in this regard. Now if OpenTDD said no , we’re leaving it on Steam for free ,Atari could probably contact Valve to get it delisted. A compromise is not a loss. I’ve downloaded tons of applications and games without Steam holding my hand and somehow I’m ok. Although I do wish sandboxing solutions with better gpu support existed
  - Suppafly 7mo ago
    >Atari is very kind to say you can keep distributing a fan game How are they kind for agreeing to something they have no control over in the first place. OpenTTD doesn't use any IP that Atari has any ownership over.

ApolloFortyNine 7mo ago

>Additionally, as part of the discussions we held, Atari agreed to make a contribution towards the running costs of our server infrastructure. We are also extremely grateful for the many donations that have come in over the past few days from users - your support will help keep our services going, and it is deeply appreciated. That's pretty cool of them.

charcircuit 7mo ago
Without knowing the rev share it could be exploitative. If OpenTDD is being sold commercially Atari shouldn't be taking all the money from all the hard work that people have put into the project over the years.
- singpolyma3 7mo ago
  It's clearly exploitative
  - Lammy 7mo ago
    Agreed. Effectively-nobody would be interested in buying it if it weren't for OpenTTD and all the improvements they've made over the years. It's absurd that some company can buy up and profit from thirty-year-old formerly-abandonware, and that society have been collectively browbeaten into believing in the notion of “““intellectual property””” at all.
- WarcrimeActual 7mo ago
  Thing is, they own it. They have every right to cease and desist, I assume, and haven't. That's generous compared to most companies reactions already.
  - JoshTriplett 7mo ago
    > Thing is, they own it. No, they don't. They own the game data, and the original game engine. They don't own the reimplemented Open Source game engine. OpenTTD did not have to do anything here. It sounds like they had a very positive interaction with Atari, in which Atari is providing them with some support and collaboration, and in exchange for that, OpenTTD agreed to formalize the requirement for "you need to own the original game data" by having people on game stores purchase the original game through them before getting OpenTTD through them. That seems like a pretty reasonable approach. It should be held up as a good model for collaboration. But it shouldn't be treated as "they have every right to [demand a] cease and desist".

maCDzP 7mo ago

Now with AI I wonder if it’s possible to just let agents build a perfect emulation of the game. It reminds me of fuzzers. You let the agent go loose on the game and it brute forces every possible state. Then recreates the code. It’s very inefficient- but it probably works.

nemomarx 7mo ago
Why would you when an open source version already exists?
bigfishrunning 7mo ago
So https://malus.sh/ https://malus.sh/ Good luck with all that
- k4rli 7mo ago
  Is this service a joke? I'm not even sure after reading the reviews at the bottom there.
  - bigfishrunning 7mo ago
    Haha yeah its a joke, but it sure is prophetic
einr 7mo ago
You’re going to brute force every possible state of a sandbox building game. See you on the other side of the heat death of the universe; hope you stocked up on Claude Code credits.

yellowapple 7mo ago

In situations like this it's odd to me that the rightsholder wouldn't just sell an official build of the FOSS reimplementation with the assets (legally) included. If some of the proceeds end up going toward the FOSS reimplementation's donations then it seems like an easy win-win.

sho_hn 7mo ago
There are actually cases this has happened in (e.g. re-releases using ScummVM under the hood; id basing products on community source ports, etc.), but it's not always that simple. Chris Sawyer as creator for example is known to have particular opinions on this as I recall, and if you e.g. look over to film making there's also a hot debate over preserving original artistic intent and original creations over later remasters. OpenTTD is more than a maintenance upgrade, it's a continuation and a different game. Honestly I think it's probably just OK what Atari has done here. Monetizing the original assets is well in their rights both legally and morally (especially considering e.g. royalities to Chris), OpenTTD remains available everywhere, they're monetarily supporting OpenTTS, gamers will find it. Note that once a commercial company decides to ship a FOSS project, they also are much more invested in potentially controlling its direction to different ends. This setup keeps OpenTTD community-run and independent, free to make decisions independent of a commercial agenda. This also feels worth protecting.
- bombcar 7mo ago
  Another example is Heroes III with VCMI and HotA and other similar things. Some are attempts to do a bug-for-bug "vanilla" recreation, others expand on it in defined ways, still others add new features "in the spirit" of the original. When you get to the last, you can definitely see how the original creator/artists could disagree.

aeturnum 7mo ago

I don't have much to add except to say that I think this is a stand-out example of how companies and preservationists should work together and not against each other. The childish folks who are upset about this aren't familiar with the realties of either open source games perseveration nor the realities of being an IP holder. This is as close as we have gotten to the Good Place. I wish Atari luck on the re-release and I hope that anyone who's upset about it reflects on why they are upset.

superxpro12 7mo ago
This is about as much as you can hope for tbh. More than a fair compromise. Society has become quite 'entitled' to 'free' things. As popular as they are, torrents and free streams and emulation and clones of games in an open source lib are all stealing something. I know thats an unpopular thing to say but it a fact. Now, those rights violations viewed in a larger context may change one's opinion on the whole, and I'm not jumping into that debate today. Atari did a cool thing. That's rare in the corporate world today. Give praise where it's deserved.
- AuthAuth 7mo ago
  Are they really stealing it though? They only brought the IP 30 years later they didnt make it or put any work towards it. The openTTD community has easily done 100x the work to extend the game.
  - ThunderSizzle 7mo ago
    This makes me wonder why squatter's rights are not a thing here...but I don't know much about the current and previous legal status of the open genres like OpenTTD.
- arvid-lind 7mo ago
  > ...all stealing something. I know thats an unpopular thing to say but it a fact. This is an unpopular opinion because it is not, in fact, a fact.
- 7mo ago

jwitthuhn 7mo ago

So they were not "pressured" but Atari contacted them and they proceeded to make this decision based because they "needed to balance Atari’s commercial interests". That sound indistinguishable from being pressured.

singpolyma3 7mo ago
Indeed. It sounds like they were further pressured to say they were not being pressured.
- JoshTriplett 7mo ago
  The types of folks who make reimplemented game engines often do it as a labor of love towards the original. And the best companies often have great appreciation for their modding communities and preservationists. (Witness the good collaborations between some companies and SCUMMVM, for instance.) This may well have been a conversation that was entirely reasonable and respectful.
  - singpolyma3 7mo ago
    I just can't believe that given the outcome and the wording of the posts from the project. If there was respect here there would have been no threats. If there were no threats there would be no talk of "balancing commercial interests"
IshKebab 7mo ago
I think they're saying Atari didn't threaten them but they both understood that they could have. Honestly it sounds like Atari were trying to be nice. Like "you technically aren't allowed to do that, and we could just set our lawyers on you, but we'd like to not do that while also making money on our re-release". This seems like a perfectly reasonable compromise to me.
- singpolyma3 7mo ago
  How is "I haven't talked to my lawyer yet but you know I could" not a threat/pressure?

shevy-java 7mo ago

Would be nice to see OpenTTD on Steam/GOG, for a younger audience. Some games have a good replayfactor. Transport Tycoon Deluxe was nice in this regard; the spirit should be retained so younger folks can play it.

mikkupikku 7mo ago

Seems reasonable to me. Back when I started playing OpenTTD, about 20 years ago, you had to provide your own data files from your ostensibly legal copy of TTD. They changed that after they started distributing free alternative graphics, but to be frank the strict legal status of both OpenTTD and OpenRCT2 has always seemed mildly dubious to me, on account of both projects being based off disassembled code. Atari is being fairly reasonable and gentlemenly about this.

NietTim 7mo ago

I am very happy that this long stand grey area licensing situation around something I enjoy deeply has been resolved in what seems like the most perfect way possible

c12 7mo ago

In a world full of Nintendos, be Atari.

nubinetwork 7mo ago

> please be nice to Atari You're not my mom...

1313ed01 7mo ago

After installing TTD from GOG I panicked a bit, not seeing any DOSBox or DOS files. For a moment I thought it was files from an old Windows 95 version only, but there was (also) a DOS installer (INSTALL.EXE). I ran that, went through all the usual steps (select Sound Blaster IRQs and so on) and now I can run it from my virtual (git-managed) DOS disk install directory where I install all my DOS games and applications. Next to the original TT that I installed a few months ago from an old CD-ROM. For completeness.

zeeshdev2887 7mo ago

[dead]

dang 7mo ago

Recent and related. Others? Changes to OpenTTD Distribution on Steam - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47381746 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47381746 - March 2026 (131 comments)

2postsperday 7mo ago
I don't really get why you put 'Others?' What kind of question is 'Others?' is doesn't even make any sense. It just pisses me off.
- dang 7mo ago
  I'll happily explain it if you'll agree to stop making accounts to break HN's rules with. (You're welcome here personally. We just want you to respect the intended use of the site.)

halo 7mo ago

Wonder if the reaction would be the same if Wine was conditional on buying a license to Windows.

TobTobXX 7mo ago
Well IF Microsoft would also collaborate with Wine... I think I'd pay for a Windows License if it means I get official support for Windows apps on Linux (provided the support is indeed good).
danparsonson 7mo ago
Wine is not a full reimplementation of Windows, so not an analogous situation.

rvnx 7mo ago

Perhaps it is time for the law to evolve so softwares that are abandoned for x years become public domain (like Epic Pinball, Age of Empires, etc)

joemi 7mo ago
Isn't it already like that, more or less, but the length of time it takes is longer than any software has so far existed?

samrus 7mo ago

you know, given that i've often said "if youre getting it for free, your the product" i am ok with this its not really possible for the rights holder to compete with a free product, since they arent harvesting data or oxploiting the userbase, so they need to charge. and openTTD getting a cut of the money really does show that this is fully collaborative

swiftcoder 7mo ago

This feels like absolute best-case scenario for an open-source clone interacting with a rights holder looking to re-release the original. Really glad to see their willingness to work together, instead of just torpedoing the open-source project

ivanjermakov 7mo ago

Steam version of OpenTTD didn't make much sense to me, since I'm running JGRPP fork (https://github.com/JGRennison/OpenTTD-patches https://github.com/JGRennison/OpenTTD-patches). I wonder how many players won't be affected by its Steam disappearance. Similar issue with other heavy modded games, such as Kerbal Space Program. The best way to handle multiple saves with different modpacks is multiple game installations, which is against the grain for the Steam version.

bluejay2387 7mo ago

This looks like one of the rare instances where a company tried to balance their commercial interests with the interest of the fans of their products. I don't see why people would be complaining?

MisterTea 7mo ago

> Some have suggested that we should have chosen to remove OpenTTD from Steam and GOG entirely, but that would have caused unnecessary disruption to the many thousands of people currently enjoying the game on these platforms, and would have potentially prevented new players from discovering the game in future. Is there no way either platform can simply stop selling the game and de-list it from the store yet people who purchased it can continue to play uninterrupted?