8 ms·

Tesla registrations crash 17% in Europe as BEV market surges 14%

225 points by breve 8mo ago

bdcravens 8mo ago
Even ignoring Musk's shenanigans, anyone buying a new EV may need to reconsider whether Tesla is in it (supporting consumer-owned EVs) for the long haul. Recent moves, and even quotes from Elon, suggest they might not be.
- joering2 8mo ago
  Honestly I think it depends if Trump stays in power above his current term (not here to argue whether or not its possible). But he knows he cannot collect billions of tax payers subsidies for EVs and then flip a switch and have factory producing Optimus bots. That 100% fraud, and only Trump will ignore it.
  - deburo 8mo ago
    Why would that be fraud? Is the subsidy something other than giving the people purchasing EVs a "rebate"?
    - CodingJeebus 8mo ago
      A good lawyer could argue that Tesla must be aware that exiting the auto market would immediately crash the value of all existing Teslas because it would essentially create a sunset date for those vehicles, given how much software they're running. Good luck to anyone trying to sell a used Tesla once that announcement is made, because who would buy a car that is going to be bricked at some point?
      - wat10000 8mo ago
        How is that good lawyer going to make the case that Tesla should somehow be liable for this? Tesla doesn't owe any duty to keep resale values up.
  - bagels 8mo ago
    How is it fraud for a company to change focus and start producing other kinds of products? It's not fraud in the same way that promising that the car would be able to drive itself from Los Angeles to New York in 2017 and selling people "Full Self Driving Hardware" is.
  - ralph84 8mo ago
    Tesla single-handedly created the market for EVs. There are over 9 million Teslas on the road worldwide. That's a much bigger return on their subsidies than most government programs.
    - triceratops 8mo ago
      Maybe that's true but maybe it also isn't? Tesla or no Tesla, China would've thrown incentives at domestic EV makers to reduce their dependence on oil imports. Without Tesla maybe there would be fewer EVs in North America and Europe today. But I don't see history playing out very differently elsewhere. The economics are just too strong.
    - tzs 8mo ago
      Have you forgotten about the Nissan Leaf? Tesla created the market for expensive sports car EVs, but Nissan made the market for EVs for the mainstream. The Tesla Roadster came out first, by a couple years, but only sold about 2500 over its lifetime. By the time Tesla got its second model out, a couple years after Leaf went on sale, Leaf had 50k sales. It took until 2020 for Tesla cumulative sales to catch up with Leaf cumulative sales.
      - ralph84 8mo ago
        The first generation Leaf belongs more to the early curiosity phase of EVs than the mainstream. Funny looking, less than 100 miles range, and slow charging via a port that never caught on outside of Japan. Tesla didn't just build a car that addressed the biggest EV objections (range, charging speed, looks), they also built a DCFC network that has more ports than all of the other ones combined. Without the charging network there is no EV market.
  - rootusrootus 8mo ago
    > I think it depends if Trump stays in power above his current term (not here to argue whether or not its possible) If that were to happen, we will not be caring at all about Tesla's choices, so I'm not sure how you can make such a statement and then claim there is no argument to be had.
  - wat10000 8mo ago
    The subsidies are things like emissions credits and tax credits for purchases. They applied to units already manufactured and sold. There's no conceivable case for fraud if they decide to stop making EVs.
- Betelbuddy 8mo ago
  quote from Tesla latest earnings call, at 04 min.. "Because we're really moving into a future that is based on autonomy and so if you're interested in buying a Model S and X, now would be the time to order it, because we expect to wind down S and X production in next quarter and basically stop production of Model S and X next quarter. We'll obviously continue to support the Model S and X programs for as long as people have the vehicles, but we're gonna take the Model S and X production space in our Fremont factory and convert that into an Optimus factory, which will... with the long-term goal of having 1 million units a year of Optimus robots in the current S/X space in Fremont."
  - illwrks 8mo ago
    So no parts when they are eventually needed!
    - iknowstuff 8mo ago
      Do manufacturers tend to pump out parts for old models after they are superseded by newer ones?
      - Qwertious 8mo ago
        Their subcontractors do.
      - deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
      - rootusrootus 8mo ago
        IIRC, by law manufacturers are required to maintain parts and service for vehicles for a minimum of 10 years. Whether superseded, discontinued, whatever.
        afavour 8mo ago
        But what happens when Musk decides the law doesn't apply to him...
- leesec 8mo ago
  LMAO. do you say the same for Rivian or any of the other EV's actually failing?
  - rootusrootus 8mo ago
    I look at Rivian with their forthcoming R2 and they seem to be making a lot of effort. While Tesla has been milking the same basic design for coming up on 10 years now, and even removing features. I can see an argument that Tesla isn't really trying to win, they seem to be coasting.
    - wat10000 8mo ago
      Tesla owner here, I agree. One of my cars is over a decade old and I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade. They're still nice, but aside from "Self Driving" the improvements in that time are fairly minor and incremental. They need an actual truck, not the monstrosity they're trying to sell. The new Roadster is six years late. Once the S and X are dropped they're only going to have three models on offer, and no matter how good they are that's going to leave out a lot of customers whose needs/wants aren't met by those three. They got distracted by self driving and let that take up all of their attention. Now they're pivoting to robots before they've even got their first distraction working. They needed somebody who could tell Elon "no" about eight years ago.
  - bdcravens 8mo ago
    False dichotomy. The market for BEVs isn't limited to BEV-only companies. Most considering one not made by Tesla are probably looking at an incumbent manufacturer instead.
- amelius 8mo ago
  EVs have the technological novelty of a washing machine. The only way to win this game is by making fabrication cheaper, and we all know that China can't be defeated here.
  - rootusrootus 8mo ago
    > EVs have the technological novelty of a washing machine This has been similarly true of ICEVs for the better part of the last 100 years.
    - amelius 8mo ago
      No, over 100 years there have been vast improvements in efficiency in ICEVs. In EVs, the curve is mostly flat. The hope is for better batteries, but developments are excruciatingly slow.
      - DangitBobby 8mo ago
        Crucially the flat EV curve puts them mostly ahead of where ICEVs have been for their entire history.
        Spivak 8mo ago
        It's not really an ICE vs EV thing, more that "EVs as hip new technology improving leaps and bounds annually" isn't really a thing and they're the car version of air fryers. This is, to me, actually a good because there's no longer any early adopters remorse anymore so no reason not to buy one now because it won't be outdated in six months.
        DangitBobby 8mo ago
        I believe you have a mistaken impression. First, the bottom has fallen out of the used market creating significant buyers remorse for early adopters. Buyers remorse also for the switch from the previous US charging standard to Tesla's. And people are generally waiting with bated breath for advancements in battery technology for charging speeds, longevity, and capacity. Accurate or not, people are waiting for the technology to mature so they don't have an EV that isn't worth what they paid for it.
- delusional 8mo ago
  It's not just a question of the long haul. About 25% of new model 3's failed their first inspection in 2024 in denmark. That means they aren't road legal without repairs. That's compared to 9% of other electric cars. And yeah, they run a 4 year warrenty, so when the first inspection is due after 4 years, it also conviniently out of warrenty. It's even worse with the Y where 50% (yes, HALF) of 2021 models failed their first inspection.
  - Rnonymous 8mo ago
    I was under the impression EV's are relatively maintenance free, especially compared to ICE. What are the typical failures of those teslas?
    - speedgoose 8mo ago
      The EV is usually not the problem. The suspensions don’t age well. The headlights also often need adjusting.
    - simonask 8mo ago
      They have had problems with the suspension arms, but word on the street is that it’s just the brake discs. Denmark is significantly more moist than California, and EVs regenerative braking doesn’t wear the braking discs, so they rust, thus failing inspection. The solution is trivial (periodically disable regenerative braking), but many people didn’t know.
      - delusional 8mo ago
        > They have had problems with the suspension arms, but word on the street is that it’s just the brake discs. That is certainly one of the issues, but 22% of the model Y's had loose suspension arms. So the brakes (which I agree is a more minor yet still inexcusable issue) aren't the only issue.
- davidw 8mo ago
  > shenanigans It's a lot more than "shenanigans": he's likely responsible for the deaths, via starvation and illness of hundreds, thousands, or more. The quick and sudden DOGE cuts ripped those programs that were keeping people alive away, without any chance to phase in replacements.
  - ezfe 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - AlecSchueler 8mo ago
      Yet we're still downplaying it all with words like "shenanigans." The comment above didn't even get onto the subjects of election interference, MEGA or MechaHitler/white genocide.
      - mitthrowaway2 8mo ago
        When a comment starts with "Even ignoring Y, there's also Z" or "Setting aside Y, there's also Z", it shouldn't be read as downplaying Y. It's a way of introducing a secondary issue Z without first needing to write a 1000 word essay that gives due weight to issue Y and any other issues that are more important than Z. This is useful to do when issue Y is widely known and well-explored elsewhere, but issue Z hasn't received as much attention. It my no means is an attempt to downplay the importance of Y, merely to create a space for conversation about a more niche issue Z. It's disappointing to see so much attention put into replies attacking the OP for not giving adequate weight to Y, when the very premise of their comment was to create a space to discuss Z.
        AlecSchueler 8mo ago
        No, you've abstracted it too far. I understand the grammatical construction, I'm not sure what suggested that I don't. The issue is referring to the spread of fascism in the world as if it's a little mistake anyone could make. It's disappointing to see this defended.
- the_real_cher 8mo ago
  They refuse to use lidar They cut the lifetime subscription to fsd They canceled two Tesla models They're converting Tesla factories to make Optimus robot I was going to buy a Tesla but now have concerns.
  - jodrellblank 8mo ago
    You weren't concerned by Tesla recalling 5.1 million cars in 2024, more than Ford, and recalling the Cybertruck 5 times in 18 months[1]? You weren't concerned by Consumer Reports ranking Tesla in last place out of 26 manufacturers for reliability[2]? Or their quality control so poor that customers are buying their own delivery inspection checklists[2]? You weren't concerned by Tesla Owners reporting Tesla authorized repair centers keeping their cars for months unable to source parts to repair them, or consumers unable to buy replacement parts[3]? You weren't concerned by the worker awarded $130M for hostile work environment filled with racial abuse at a Tesla factory, after paying another worker $1M for racist abuse at their factory, and facing a class action about racist discrimination[4][5][6]? You weren't concerned about Tesla's telemetry tracking all details about every drive and sending it back to HQ to train their FSD? You weren't concerned by any of Musk's behaviour, such as his misleading statements about FSD delivery dates and abilities for years, about the sportscar that would jump with compressed air, about the Cybertruck and Semi truck abilities, about the Hyperloop, about getting Tesla to buy his cousin's failing SolarCity, about trying to get a trillion dollar paycheck out of Tesla, etc? [1] https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-had-the-most-recalls-its-a-tight-race/ https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-ha... [2] https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-had-the-most-recalls-its-a-tight-race/ https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-ha... [2] https://www.jalopnik.com/teslas-quality-control-is-so-bad-customers-are-taking-d-1851369990/ https://www.jalopnik.com/teslas-quality-control-is-so-bad-cu... [3] https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/tesla-cant-supply-repair-parts.23739/ https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/tesla-cant-supply-... [4] https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/usa-former-tesla-employee-awarded-137-million-in-suit-over-hostile-racist-workplace/ https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/usa-form... [5] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-lawsuit-elon-musk-california-b2804549.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-laws... [6] https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/18/business/tesla-black-worker-harassment-settlement-intl https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/18/business/tesla-black-work...
- pupppet 8mo ago
  Is any other US company making a play for putting these shiny new AI's in bots like Musk is trying to do with Optimus or has society just resigned itself to shovelling money on to his doorstep?
- small_model 8mo ago
  Agreed, Tesla will sell autonomous miles not cars going forward, Model Y is still the best selling car on planet earth for many years in a row though so they'll keep selling that as they make large profit margins on it (unlike every other EV maker who are making a loss)
  - malfist 8mo ago
    Model Y is #8, not #1. Note this is specific to the US. If you include the entire world, it would be lower. https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/top-10-25-best-selling-cars-trucks-suvs/ https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/top-10-25-best-selling-cars-tr...
    - tzs 8mo ago
      Worldwide, the top models are Tesla Model Y, Toyota RAV4, and Toyota Corolla, all pretty close together (in 2024 it was 1.09 million Y, 1.08 million Corolla, 1.02 million RAV4 [1]). Sources for 2025 have the same 3 at the top in a close spread, with some disagreement over the exact order. When you look at brands rather than models then it is no contest. For 2025 the top 15 was Toyota with 11.3 million sold, VW with 9.0, Hyundai Kia at 7.3, GM at 6.2, Stellantis at 5.6, Ford at 4.6, BYD at 4.6, Honda at 3.5, Suzuki at 3.3, Nissan at 3.2, Geely at 3.0, Changan at 2.9, BMW at 2.5, Renault at 2.4, and Mercedes at 2.2. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/239229/most-sold-car-models-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/239229/most-sold-car-mod...
      - malfist 8mo ago
        https://electrek.co/2025/12/31/elon-musk-claims-tesla-model-y-is-best-selling-car-world-serious-doubts/ https://electrek.co/2025/12/31/elon-musk-claims-tesla-model-...
- duxup 8mo ago
  Yeah at first this was all "man Elon turned a lot of people off" and now it seems like "uh ... is Tesla quitting?". If they do end up quitting this will be the weirdest ever business story.
surgical_fire 8mo ago
> Tesla registered just 8,075 vehicles across the EU, EFTA, and UK in January 2026, a 17% decline from the same month last year. That's 8075 Teslas too many.
- whynotmaybe 8mo ago
  Almost all car companies register new cars to their name to raise the official sales number and unregister them quickly afterwards. Renault was the one that did it the most in Belgium in 2015 : https://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2015/08/strategy-renault-champion-of-fake-registrations/ https://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2015/08/strategy-renault-cha...
diydsp 8mo ago
Why is Elon Musk a free man? We have a publicly verifiable history of repeated violations that would put any American away for a long time.
- throwaway98797 8mo ago
  [flagged]
- kelseyfrog 8mo ago
  POSIWID perspective: a[1] purpose of wealth is if you have a billion dollars, you are exempt from rule of law. 1. of course there are more
- foxglacier 8mo ago
  What specifically? I suspect it's just stuff you're angry at because of excess social media consumption, not actual crimes that have long prison sentences applied to typical perpetrators.
  - diydsp 8mo ago
    https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/from-sexual-harassment-to-drug-use-report-exposes-elon-musks-alleged-misconduct-5880477 https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/from-sexual-harassment-to-dr...
    - foxglacier 8mo ago
      Initiated intimate relationships with female employees? God. That's not only perfectly legal, but it's also how normal people often start relationships. The other stuff is all either legal or denied by Musk and lacks any other substance beyond somebody making the claim. People do just make up accusations to slander people, you know?
newzino 8mo ago
[flagged]
calvinmorrison 8mo ago
The US auto market is like the UK in the 80's. As the UK is flooded with Chinese appliance cars - I seriously doubt that VAG or anyone else can stop them. It's over for domestic automotive industries unless we are willing to accept higher prices via anti-competitive measures to keep some manufacturing domestic.
- alephnerd 8mo ago
  > The US auto market is like the UK in the 80's ... It's over for domestic automotive industries unless we are willing to accept higher prices via anti-competitive measures to keep some manufacturing domestic That is what is happening. The reality is that the demographic that manufactures cars is different from the demographic that purchases EVs [0]. That said, American battery manufacturing has silently been booming despite public political consternation [1] thanks to defense against overproduction. Also, it's hypocritical to demand American autoworkers lose their jobs while demanding tech bros be defended against the H1B program [2] and offshoring [3]. Protectionism for me, market forces for thee. [0] - https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/08/16/georgia-ev-jobs-swing-voters-00173175 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/08/16/georgia-ev... [1] - https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/eenews/2026/02/23/us-grid-batteries-surge-30-to-all-time-record-00791809 https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/eenews/2026/02/23... [2] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44469669 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44469669 [3] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39909329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39909329
  - moomin 8mo ago
    A lot of people’s problems with H1B visas has nothing to do with protecting American jobs. The truth is H1B visa are a method of exploiting foreign workers. Make H1B run for a fixed time period and not be tied to a specific job and you’ll simultaneously boost the supply of highly-skilled workers and ensure they get a fair market price.
    - alephnerd 8mo ago
      > Make H1B run for a fixed time period They already are. > not be tied to a specific job I agree, and lobbied for that on the Hill years ago but this was during the DREAM act battle [0] so it got nowhere. > you’ll simultaneously boost the supply of highly-skilled workers and ensure they get a fair market price I agree. [0] - https://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/nancy-pelosi-immigration-reform-101014 https://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/nancy-pelosi-immigrat...
RobotToaster 8mo ago
It's honestly impressive how Tesla has managed snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
- Zigurd 8mo ago
  Seriously. While it can't be more than speculative, it's a pretty solid speculation that a competent follow on to Model 3 would've put the rest of the automotive industry so far behind they would never catch up. Instead, Elon wasted the opportunity on the Cybertruck ego trip to show that he's the genius that transformed cars. Once people catch on to the fact that launching 15 to 25 refueling rockets isn't a viable way to get beyond earth orbit, another project is going to turn out to be an Elon ego trip.
  - hvb2 8mo ago
    I get your point about Tesla. I don't get it at all about SpaceX... You might have said the same about landing and reusing a booster. It's impossible, until someone does it. If they screw up a project it's mostly their own money they're burning. You want to take a ride on Starliner? Because without crew dragon the US would still be politely begging Russia for seats to the ISS.
paxys 8mo ago
Tesla stock up 15% on the news, probably.
- mtmickush 8mo ago
  2.25% so far today. How does this seem to always happen?
  - rvnx 8mo ago
    When you are investor and broadly choose to buy US companies (which is what most people do), you get Tesla in the list (e.g. QQQ) as part of the package, and this pushes price higher, no matter if you believe in Tesla specifically or not. In addition, existing investors are very very deep into Tesla now, and don't want to lose. The sandcastle is quite fragile so one of the best strategy for everyone (funds and Musk) is to keep buying more, no matter if the news are bad or not. It works, until other people disagree with you, but so far, nobody is interested into losing that game.
    - Marsymars 8mo ago
      > When you are investor and broadly choose to buy US companies (which is what most people do), you get Tesla in the list (e.g. QQQ) as part of the package, and this pushes price higher, no matter if you believe in Tesla specifically or not. I actually short Tesla just enough to offset my long positions that come as part of my regular ETFs.
      - myvoiceismypass 8mo ago
        Can you share more specifics on how you go about doing that? Do you do that for your long non-ETF positions too?
        Marsymars 8mo ago
        > Can you share more specifics on how you go about doing that? I buy multi-year put options, there's some fuzziness around the appropriate strike price and number of options for a given long position, but effectively I'm paying the option premium to limit my downside risk. > Do you do that for your long non-ETF positions too? No, my non-ETF positions are negligible.
arghandugh 8mo ago
[dead]
lumost 8mo ago
Tesla and similar companies really make me wonder if we still live in a capitalist system. If wealth is sufficiently concentrated - the value of anything becomes tied to the whims of the few who can transact at that level. How a stock goes up while sales growth, profitability, and other measures go down on a multi-year trajectory defies my understanding.
- moomin 8mo ago
  One of the things I’ve noticed is that when leftists say “capitalism” they often mean “the ability of capital to set the rules of markets” rather than just “markets”. This causes people who use the latter interpretation and leftists to talk past one another quite a bit. Which is one of the reasons that leftists have sounded this alarm bell for at least twenty years and no-one has paid attention.
  - api 8mo ago
    When leftists say "capitalism" they mean something closer to what conservatives and free market libertarians mean by "fascism."
  - speed_spread 8mo ago
    Capitalism is a big money party. Leftists are the party poopers, actually just slightly less drunk than the rest of the guests, and pointing out that lighting up fireworks indoors isn't a good idea. Booo-hooo, shut up lefty! *BANG*
    - gadflyinyoureye 8mo ago
      Command economies break too. Capitalism has occasional fires like a forest. This is good. It allows things to shake out. New growth comes from the destruction. Command economies don't. They just continue to grow weeds and tall trees until everything is choked. Then they wonder why everything is garbage. The US is moving to a fascist economy. That is a form of command economy. For example the FDA is controlled by big pharma.
siliconc0w 8mo ago
In other news, the lack of demand makes them pretty cheap at the moment. You can find a 2023 HW4 Plaid Model S for <$50k.
- joering2 8mo ago
  why? would you buy a used cellphone with 70% functioning battery?
  - wcoenen 8mo ago
    EV batteries degrade nowhere near that fast. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery-life-80-percent-capacity-840km-1-million-km/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery-life-80-percent-capa...
    - porphyra 8mo ago
      And even a 80% battery on a model S is still 320 miles of EPA range which is a lot better than many other EVs.
      - hvb2 8mo ago
        A model S is also significantly more expensive than many other EVs so that's not super surprising?
        porphyra 8mo ago
        Well the parent comment is talking about how cheap a used Model S is, and I'm saying that even with battery degradation, a used Model S still has way more range than other used or new EVs in that price range.
  - tirant 8mo ago
    ICE also degrade over time. Batteries tend to last way longer than internal combustion engines.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
mschuster91 8mo ago
No surprise there. There is so much competition these days and the market is exploding, especially on the lowest end - Dacia's Spring for example is 15.700 €, if you add Germany's subsidies of 6000 € you're at 9.700 € [1] for a brand new car, even if it isn't even made in Romania but in China instead (the fact that this is likely still making a profit despite shipping costs is insane). On the high end, BMW and Mercedes have finally caught up as well, and produce better cars for the same price point with a better support/maintenance infrastructure. Meanwhile, what does Tesla have in production? Dated stuff on the mid to high price range, rumors are they will stop making some models entirely and a "Cybertruck" that not just looks so similar to a dumpster that raccoons confuse it with literal dumpsters [2] but is unable to ever be certified for European roads because its form is seen as a threat to road safety. So that alone has a serious impact on Tesla's sales. Then come the never ending stories about supply chain issues especially for spare parts and the quality control issues - like, WTF, a Cybertruck is 60k? Why should people put up with delaminating glue (and why was glue used in the first place?) or rust issues [3]? So that's another dent in the sales, people don't buy lemons. And finally, the antics of Elon himself and the company in general. The cars are nicknamed "swasticars" ever since Musk's infamous right arm salute, in the Nordic countries (that used to love Tesla) they are refusing to deal with unions for two years now [4], and here in Germany there is a big dispute related to the upcoming works council election (i.e. what y'all Americans would consider an union) [5]. There just aren't that many reasons left to buy a Tesla, and the reasons to buy an ICE vehicle are rapidly going away as well. I'd have zero issues buying a Dacia Spring or a Citroen, if only they'd add a trailer towing hitch that can be used for more than a bicycle rack. [1] https://www.dacia.de/kampagnen/daciaelektrobonus.html https://www.dacia.de/kampagnen/daciaelektrobonus.html [2] https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/animals-mistake-tesla-cybertruck-for-trash/news-story/ad29a6196e36d81215f44b26080b25e4 https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/an... [3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2025/04/21/tesla-cybertruck-suffers-boycotts-recalls-vandalism-and-now-rust/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2025/04/21/tesla-cybe... [4] https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-sweden-strikers-tax-issues-if-metall-union-error/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-sweden-strikers-tax-issues-i... [5] https://www.dw.com/en/germany-tesla-charges-trade-union-member-in-ig-metall-fight/a-75913837 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-tesla-charges-trade-union-memb...
tgrowazay 8mo ago
Something is up globally. VAG sold 71 Audi Q4 E-tron in whole Q4 in the US. Only three Q8 E-trons. 220 Q6 and 248 VW ID.4 . Best VAG EV seller for Q4 is Porsche Taycan at 1,672 cars. Total US EV sales Q4 across all manufacturers is 234,171
- gmueckl 8mo ago
  The US market is extremely regressive due to the changing regulatory environment. I fully expect new ICE cars without catalytic converters in the near future. This is not representative of the rest of the world.
  - creaturemachine 8mo ago
    They might be happy that they can keep making V8s, but they have to know any future administration could easily outlaw any design that goes too far backwards. Such a car will also not be able to be sold anywhere else in the world. Heck, by the time they design, tool, and produce such a beast it could already be too late.
    - gmueckl 8mo ago
      Well, just leave the catalytic converter out in the US variants of cars and pocket the difference. That's a far simpler change. I don't want that, but given everything else that's going on, it wouldn't be a surprise.
  - upupupandaway 8mo ago
    The demand for EVs is crashing across the board. Porsche for example is now in dire straits because they had promised to make the 718 only as EV and with demand going down, they'll revamp the platform and get ICE 718s back.
  - rootusrootus 8mo ago
    Unless the feds can take California out of the regulatory picture, I don't expect major steps backward. Almost half the country adopts California's emissions standards.
leesec 8mo ago
[flagged]
ryandvm 8mo ago
Oof. Good thing they're a "robot company" now. At least until an Optimus decapitates somebody and Tesla has to pivot to monorails or whatever...
gosub100 8mo ago
[flagged]
- chrishare 8mo ago
  Good doesn't wash away bad
- tom_808 8mo ago
  Sure. But Mussolini made the trains run on time - right? Can you give an example of one of these "useless" green programs?
  - gosub100 8mo ago
    > But Mussolini made the trains run on time - right? making an inappropriate hand gesture is comparable to being a mass murderer? > Can you give an example of one of these "useless" green programs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra
    - 5upplied_demand 8mo ago
      > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra Your own example undermines your point. Solyndra, a company, was part of a much larger Energy Department program that was profitable for the US government. Tesla itself was kept afloat by loans from this program [0]. This has all been well-reported, you can read up on it. [1] [0] https://www.theverge.com/2013/5/22/4356860/tesla-repays-465-million-government-green-energy-loan https://www.theverge.com/2013/5/22/4356860/tesla-repays-465-... [1] https://www.npr.org/2014/11/13/363572151/after-solyndra-loss-u-s-energy-loan-program-turning-a-profit https://www.npr.org/2014/11/13/363572151/after-solyndra-loss...
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  The Goomba Fallacy strikes again.
  - gosub100 8mo ago
small_model 8mo ago
Another fair and balanced headline from Fred, has he put out a neutral to positive article on Tesla in the last 4-5 years? What did Elon do to him?
- dj_gitmo 8mo ago
  If you are really into EVs, like the author clearly is, than what is happening to Tesla is just sad. Tesla is being run into the ground. It was, and could be, the great American EV success story. But now it's being destroyed by a guy who has clearly lost it. And don't forget that taxpayers have foot the bill for Tesla to have this shot in the first place.
  - small_model 8mo ago
    [flagged]
  - danny_codes 8mo ago
    Literally just had to make that 25k EV, but I guess Ketamine sidetracks you?
- tencentshill 8mo ago
  He never claims to be unbiased, and had personal beef with Tesla as a shareholder. https://electrek.co/2024/09/05/i-sold-all-my-tesla-shares-tsla-why/ https://electrek.co/2024/09/05/i-sold-all-my-tesla-shares-ts...
the_mitsuhiko 8mo ago
In many ways I’m impressed they sell that much. They basically just sell one model here in a space with a ton of competition. Also since there is no FSD here and the European autopilot they have is not competitive with the travel assist type offerings from other brands.
- jbverschoor 8mo ago
  Really? They just launched FSD ride along, and it's amazing. No need to own or drive a car anymore
  - the_mitsuhiko 8mo ago
    There is no FSD in Europe.
    - jbverschoor 8mo ago
      https://www.tesla.com/events/fsd-supervised-ride-along-nl https://www.tesla.com/events/fsd-supervised-ride-along-nl
      - the_mitsuhiko 8mo ago
        That's a demo, not a feature in a consumer car you can have today. It might launch, it probably will, but if I buy a Tesla in Austria today, I will not have it.
    - jbverschoor 8mo ago
      https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1r79t3k/tesla_fsd_demo_in_the_netherlands/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1r79t3k/tesla_... https://youtu.be/hcNE8DVLtqA https://youtu.be/hcNE8DVLtqA Etc
  - slaw 8mo ago
    missing /s ?
psyclobe 8mo ago
> These are results for what is bev market auto industry > Search instead for what is bev market auto industru > AI Overview > The Battery Electric Vehicle (BEV) market involves vehicles powered exclusively by electricity via onboard battery packs, without any internal combustion engine. It is a rapidly growing, high-investment sector within the automotive industry aimed at zero-emission transportation. Key aspects include accelerating market share, intense competition, and improvements in charging infrastructure.
hermitcrab 8mo ago
Nazi salutes tend not to go down well in Europe. Especially for the sort of people who are interested in buying EVs.
- 1970-01-01 8mo ago
  8,075 owners didn't seem to mind it. Gigafactory 4 hums along with them. That's still a respectable output for any car factory.
pbasista 8mo ago
I am not surprised. Considering only the main segment, i.e. Model 3 and Model Y, there has not been any major innovation by Tesla for years. No significantly better battery technology. No significantly more powerful or efficient motors. No significantly improved comfort. They have been making minor improvements in many areas, yes. For instance, they added ventilated seats, adaptive suspension, front camera, etc. But those are not new technologies that would make them stand out. The competition already had such features before. Meanwhile, the Chinese cars have head-up displays, massage seats, vehicle to load, internal power outlets, fridges, dimmable glass roofs and what not. One might argue that Tesla is improving their driving assist technologies and that is, in Tesla's view, supposed to be the deciding factor which would make them stand out. But I am not sure about that. Their better driving assist (the so-called "FSD") has not been available in Europe for years. But that is almost besides the point. The most important question is, in my opinion, the following: Who cares about those systems enough that they would be willing to pay $100 a month or $8k, $10k, $15k or even more one time for this kind of technology? From what I have heard, the majority of drivers does not care. Not for this kind of money. No matter how good such a system might be. Assuming that there will be a significant number of people who would be willing to pay thousands of dollars extra for a driving assist feature is, in my opinion, detached from reality.
- efavdb 8mo ago
  FWIW I have heard the exact opposite. The people I know love the self driving feature.
  - pbasista 8mo ago
    This is not about loving the feature. It is about willing to pay the current asking price for it.
- dubeye 8mo ago
  millions of owners have bought FSD
  - pbasista 8mo ago
kazinator 8mo ago
> The growth looks even stronger when you strip out Tesla’s numbers. Every registration of an electric vehicle contributes to growth, even from a maker that is losing market share; they should reconsider their funny math. If you strip out Tesla's numbers, which contribute electric cars, you have less growth.
expedition32 8mo ago
Kia and Skoda are the biggest sellers in my country. They beat the shit out of a model 3. Tesla XYZ are luxury cars and thus irrelevant for the unwashed masses. Yet they get all the press...
- Markoff 8mo ago
  they are not even luxury cars compared to Porsche, Mercedes or other EV brands
maxwellsdeamons 8mo ago
The Nazi salutes were kind of a turn off for many European customers. Just not flying so well here.
- tim333 8mo ago
  I was just looking at Elon's X posts for 24 hours and there were about 15 posts about immigrants, pakistani rape gangs and so on, a few about AI, none about cars. He seems distracted.
c0nstantien 8mo ago
[dead]
kalleboo 8mo ago
Petrol/Diesel registrations down 25% YoY seems like a much more interesting story. If that was EVs there would be headlines "EVs are over! It was just a fad" but when it happens to ICE cars it's crickets?
thefz 8mo ago
No other brand - aside Apple - holds such power of flagging the owner/wielder of an object as an asshole.
tistoon 8mo ago
Yep... this user (breve) doesn't like Tesla.. ..we got it now. breve posted on HN: Tesla EU registrations crash 17% (Feb 24, 2026) Tesla Crash rate 3× worse than humans (Jan 29, 2026) EV sales booming without Tesla (Nov 17, 2025) By the way.. Tesla is no more a car company anymore.. change your software :)

225 points by breve 8mo ago

Even ignoring Musk's shenanigans, anyone buying a new EV may need to reconsider whether Tesla is in it (supporting consumer-owned EVs) for the long haul. Recent moves, and even quotes from Elon, suggest they might not be.

joering2 8mo ago
Honestly I think it depends if Trump stays in power above his current term (not here to argue whether or not its possible). But he knows he cannot collect billions of tax payers subsidies for EVs and then flip a switch and have factory producing Optimus bots. That 100% fraud, and only Trump will ignore it.
- deburo 8mo ago
  Why would that be fraud? Is the subsidy something other than giving the people purchasing EVs a "rebate"?
  - CodingJeebus 8mo ago
    A good lawyer could argue that Tesla must be aware that exiting the auto market would immediately crash the value of all existing Teslas because it would essentially create a sunset date for those vehicles, given how much software they're running. Good luck to anyone trying to sell a used Tesla once that announcement is made, because who would buy a car that is going to be bricked at some point?
    - wat10000 8mo ago
      How is that good lawyer going to make the case that Tesla should somehow be liable for this? Tesla doesn't owe any duty to keep resale values up.
- bagels 8mo ago
  How is it fraud for a company to change focus and start producing other kinds of products? It's not fraud in the same way that promising that the car would be able to drive itself from Los Angeles to New York in 2017 and selling people "Full Self Driving Hardware" is.
- ralph84 8mo ago
  Tesla single-handedly created the market for EVs. There are over 9 million Teslas on the road worldwide. That's a much bigger return on their subsidies than most government programs.
  - triceratops 8mo ago
    Maybe that's true but maybe it also isn't? Tesla or no Tesla, China would've thrown incentives at domestic EV makers to reduce their dependence on oil imports. Without Tesla maybe there would be fewer EVs in North America and Europe today. But I don't see history playing out very differently elsewhere. The economics are just too strong.
  - tzs 8mo ago
    Have you forgotten about the Nissan Leaf? Tesla created the market for expensive sports car EVs, but Nissan made the market for EVs for the mainstream. The Tesla Roadster came out first, by a couple years, but only sold about 2500 over its lifetime. By the time Tesla got its second model out, a couple years after Leaf went on sale, Leaf had 50k sales. It took until 2020 for Tesla cumulative sales to catch up with Leaf cumulative sales.
    - ralph84 8mo ago
      The first generation Leaf belongs more to the early curiosity phase of EVs than the mainstream. Funny looking, less than 100 miles range, and slow charging via a port that never caught on outside of Japan. Tesla didn't just build a car that addressed the biggest EV objections (range, charging speed, looks), they also built a DCFC network that has more ports than all of the other ones combined. Without the charging network there is no EV market.
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  > I think it depends if Trump stays in power above his current term (not here to argue whether or not its possible) If that were to happen, we will not be caring at all about Tesla's choices, so I'm not sure how you can make such a statement and then claim there is no argument to be had.
- wat10000 8mo ago
  The subsidies are things like emissions credits and tax credits for purchases. They applied to units already manufactured and sold. There's no conceivable case for fraud if they decide to stop making EVs.
Betelbuddy 8mo ago
quote from Tesla latest earnings call, at 04 min.. "Because we're really moving into a future that is based on autonomy and so if you're interested in buying a Model S and X, now would be the time to order it, because we expect to wind down S and X production in next quarter and basically stop production of Model S and X next quarter. We'll obviously continue to support the Model S and X programs for as long as people have the vehicles, but we're gonna take the Model S and X production space in our Fremont factory and convert that into an Optimus factory, which will... with the long-term goal of having 1 million units a year of Optimus robots in the current S/X space in Fremont."
- illwrks 8mo ago
  So no parts when they are eventually needed!
  - iknowstuff 8mo ago
    Do manufacturers tend to pump out parts for old models after they are superseded by newer ones?
    - Qwertious 8mo ago
      Their subcontractors do.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
    - rootusrootus 8mo ago
      IIRC, by law manufacturers are required to maintain parts and service for vehicles for a minimum of 10 years. Whether superseded, discontinued, whatever.
      - afavour 8mo ago
        But what happens when Musk decides the law doesn't apply to him...
leesec 8mo ago
LMAO. do you say the same for Rivian or any of the other EV's actually failing?
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  I look at Rivian with their forthcoming R2 and they seem to be making a lot of effort. While Tesla has been milking the same basic design for coming up on 10 years now, and even removing features. I can see an argument that Tesla isn't really trying to win, they seem to be coasting.
  - wat10000 8mo ago
    Tesla owner here, I agree. One of my cars is over a decade old and I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade. They're still nice, but aside from "Self Driving" the improvements in that time are fairly minor and incremental. They need an actual truck, not the monstrosity they're trying to sell. The new Roadster is six years late. Once the S and X are dropped they're only going to have three models on offer, and no matter how good they are that's going to leave out a lot of customers whose needs/wants aren't met by those three. They got distracted by self driving and let that take up all of their attention. Now they're pivoting to robots before they've even got their first distraction working. They needed somebody who could tell Elon "no" about eight years ago.
- bdcravens 8mo ago
  False dichotomy. The market for BEVs isn't limited to BEV-only companies. Most considering one not made by Tesla are probably looking at an incumbent manufacturer instead.
amelius 8mo ago
EVs have the technological novelty of a washing machine. The only way to win this game is by making fabrication cheaper, and we all know that China can't be defeated here.
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  > EVs have the technological novelty of a washing machine This has been similarly true of ICEVs for the better part of the last 100 years.
  - amelius 8mo ago
    No, over 100 years there have been vast improvements in efficiency in ICEVs. In EVs, the curve is mostly flat. The hope is for better batteries, but developments are excruciatingly slow.
    - DangitBobby 8mo ago
      Crucially the flat EV curve puts them mostly ahead of where ICEVs have been for their entire history.
      - Spivak 8mo ago
        It's not really an ICE vs EV thing, more that "EVs as hip new technology improving leaps and bounds annually" isn't really a thing and they're the car version of air fryers. This is, to me, actually a good because there's no longer any early adopters remorse anymore so no reason not to buy one now because it won't be outdated in six months.
        DangitBobby 8mo ago
        I believe you have a mistaken impression. First, the bottom has fallen out of the used market creating significant buyers remorse for early adopters. Buyers remorse also for the switch from the previous US charging standard to Tesla's. And people are generally waiting with bated breath for advancements in battery technology for charging speeds, longevity, and capacity. Accurate or not, people are waiting for the technology to mature so they don't have an EV that isn't worth what they paid for it.
delusional 8mo ago
It's not just a question of the long haul. About 25% of new model 3's failed their first inspection in 2024 in denmark. That means they aren't road legal without repairs. That's compared to 9% of other electric cars. And yeah, they run a 4 year warrenty, so when the first inspection is due after 4 years, it also conviniently out of warrenty. It's even worse with the Y where 50% (yes, HALF) of 2021 models failed their first inspection.
- Rnonymous 8mo ago
  I was under the impression EV's are relatively maintenance free, especially compared to ICE. What are the typical failures of those teslas?
  - speedgoose 8mo ago
    The EV is usually not the problem. The suspensions don’t age well. The headlights also often need adjusting.
  - simonask 8mo ago
    They have had problems with the suspension arms, but word on the street is that it’s just the brake discs. Denmark is significantly more moist than California, and EVs regenerative braking doesn’t wear the braking discs, so they rust, thus failing inspection. The solution is trivial (periodically disable regenerative braking), but many people didn’t know.
    - delusional 8mo ago
      > They have had problems with the suspension arms, but word on the street is that it’s just the brake discs. That is certainly one of the issues, but 22% of the model Y's had loose suspension arms. So the brakes (which I agree is a more minor yet still inexcusable issue) aren't the only issue.
davidw 8mo ago
> shenanigans It's a lot more than "shenanigans": he's likely responsible for the deaths, via starvation and illness of hundreds, thousands, or more. The quick and sudden DOGE cuts ripped those programs that were keeping people alive away, without any chance to phase in replacements.
- ezfe 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - AlecSchueler 8mo ago
    Yet we're still downplaying it all with words like "shenanigans." The comment above didn't even get onto the subjects of election interference, MEGA or MechaHitler/white genocide.
    - mitthrowaway2 8mo ago
      When a comment starts with "Even ignoring Y, there's also Z" or "Setting aside Y, there's also Z", it shouldn't be read as downplaying Y. It's a way of introducing a secondary issue Z without first needing to write a 1000 word essay that gives due weight to issue Y and any other issues that are more important than Z. This is useful to do when issue Y is widely known and well-explored elsewhere, but issue Z hasn't received as much attention. It my no means is an attempt to downplay the importance of Y, merely to create a space for conversation about a more niche issue Z. It's disappointing to see so much attention put into replies attacking the OP for not giving adequate weight to Y, when the very premise of their comment was to create a space to discuss Z.
      - AlecSchueler 8mo ago
        No, you've abstracted it too far. I understand the grammatical construction, I'm not sure what suggested that I don't. The issue is referring to the spread of fascism in the world as if it's a little mistake anyone could make. It's disappointing to see this defended.
the_real_cher 8mo ago
They refuse to use lidar They cut the lifetime subscription to fsd They canceled two Tesla models They're converting Tesla factories to make Optimus robot I was going to buy a Tesla but now have concerns.
- jodrellblank 8mo ago
  You weren't concerned by Tesla recalling 5.1 million cars in 2024, more than Ford, and recalling the Cybertruck 5 times in 18 months[1]? You weren't concerned by Consumer Reports ranking Tesla in last place out of 26 manufacturers for reliability[2]? Or their quality control so poor that customers are buying their own delivery inspection checklists[2]? You weren't concerned by Tesla Owners reporting Tesla authorized repair centers keeping their cars for months unable to source parts to repair them, or consumers unable to buy replacement parts[3]? You weren't concerned by the worker awarded $130M for hostile work environment filled with racial abuse at a Tesla factory, after paying another worker $1M for racist abuse at their factory, and facing a class action about racist discrimination[4][5][6]? You weren't concerned about Tesla's telemetry tracking all details about every drive and sending it back to HQ to train their FSD? You weren't concerned by any of Musk's behaviour, such as his misleading statements about FSD delivery dates and abilities for years, about the sportscar that would jump with compressed air, about the Cybertruck and Semi truck abilities, about the Hyperloop, about getting Tesla to buy his cousin's failing SolarCity, about trying to get a trillion dollar paycheck out of Tesla, etc? [1] https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-had-the-most-recalls-its-a-tight-race/ https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-ha... [2] https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-had-the-most-recalls-its-a-tight-race/ https://www.carscoops.com/2025/04/which-tesla-models-have-ha... [2] https://www.jalopnik.com/teslas-quality-control-is-so-bad-customers-are-taking-d-1851369990/ https://www.jalopnik.com/teslas-quality-control-is-so-bad-cu... [3] https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/tesla-cant-supply-repair-parts.23739/ https://www.teslaownersonline.com/threads/tesla-cant-supply-... [4] https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/usa-former-tesla-employee-awarded-137-million-in-suit-over-hostile-racist-workplace/ https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/usa-form... [5] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-lawsuit-elon-musk-california-b2804549.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tesla-laws... [6] https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/18/business/tesla-black-worker-harassment-settlement-intl https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/18/business/tesla-black-work...
pupppet 8mo ago
Is any other US company making a play for putting these shiny new AI's in bots like Musk is trying to do with Optimus or has society just resigned itself to shovelling money on to his doorstep?
small_model 8mo ago
Agreed, Tesla will sell autonomous miles not cars going forward, Model Y is still the best selling car on planet earth for many years in a row though so they'll keep selling that as they make large profit margins on it (unlike every other EV maker who are making a loss)
- malfist 8mo ago
  Model Y is #8, not #1. Note this is specific to the US. If you include the entire world, it would be lower. https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/top-10-25-best-selling-cars-trucks-suvs/ https://www.kbb.com/best-cars/top-10-25-best-selling-cars-tr...
  - tzs 8mo ago
    Worldwide, the top models are Tesla Model Y, Toyota RAV4, and Toyota Corolla, all pretty close together (in 2024 it was 1.09 million Y, 1.08 million Corolla, 1.02 million RAV4 [1]). Sources for 2025 have the same 3 at the top in a close spread, with some disagreement over the exact order. When you look at brands rather than models then it is no contest. For 2025 the top 15 was Toyota with 11.3 million sold, VW with 9.0, Hyundai Kia at 7.3, GM at 6.2, Stellantis at 5.6, Ford at 4.6, BYD at 4.6, Honda at 3.5, Suzuki at 3.3, Nissan at 3.2, Geely at 3.0, Changan at 2.9, BMW at 2.5, Renault at 2.4, and Mercedes at 2.2. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/239229/most-sold-car-models-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/239229/most-sold-car-mod...
    - malfist 8mo ago
      https://electrek.co/2025/12/31/elon-musk-claims-tesla-model-y-is-best-selling-car-world-serious-doubts/ https://electrek.co/2025/12/31/elon-musk-claims-tesla-model-...
duxup 8mo ago
Yeah at first this was all "man Elon turned a lot of people off" and now it seems like "uh ... is Tesla quitting?". If they do end up quitting this will be the weirdest ever business story.

surgical_fire 8mo ago

> Tesla registered just 8,075 vehicles across the EU, EFTA, and UK in January 2026, a 17% decline from the same month last year. That's 8075 Teslas too many.

whynotmaybe 8mo ago
Almost all car companies register new cars to their name to raise the official sales number and unregister them quickly afterwards. Renault was the one that did it the most in Belgium in 2015 : https://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2015/08/strategy-renault-champion-of-fake-registrations/ https://bestsellingcarsblog.com/2015/08/strategy-renault-cha...

diydsp 8mo ago

Why is Elon Musk a free man? We have a publicly verifiable history of repeated violations that would put any American away for a long time.

throwaway98797 8mo ago
[flagged]
kelseyfrog 8mo ago
POSIWID perspective: a[1] purpose of wealth is if you have a billion dollars, you are exempt from rule of law. 1. of course there are more
foxglacier 8mo ago
What specifically? I suspect it's just stuff you're angry at because of excess social media consumption, not actual crimes that have long prison sentences applied to typical perpetrators.
- diydsp 8mo ago
  https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/from-sexual-harassment-to-drug-use-report-exposes-elon-musks-alleged-misconduct-5880477 https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/from-sexual-harassment-to-dr...
  - foxglacier 8mo ago
    Initiated intimate relationships with female employees? God. That's not only perfectly legal, but it's also how normal people often start relationships. The other stuff is all either legal or denied by Musk and lacks any other substance beyond somebody making the claim. People do just make up accusations to slander people, you know?

newzino 8mo ago

[flagged]

calvinmorrison 8mo ago

The US auto market is like the UK in the 80's. As the UK is flooded with Chinese appliance cars - I seriously doubt that VAG or anyone else can stop them. It's over for domestic automotive industries unless we are willing to accept higher prices via anti-competitive measures to keep some manufacturing domestic.

alephnerd 8mo ago
> The US auto market is like the UK in the 80's ... It's over for domestic automotive industries unless we are willing to accept higher prices via anti-competitive measures to keep some manufacturing domestic That is what is happening. The reality is that the demographic that manufactures cars is different from the demographic that purchases EVs [0]. That said, American battery manufacturing has silently been booming despite public political consternation [1] thanks to defense against overproduction. Also, it's hypocritical to demand American autoworkers lose their jobs while demanding tech bros be defended against the H1B program [2] and offshoring [3]. Protectionism for me, market forces for thee. [0] - https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/08/16/georgia-ev-jobs-swing-voters-00173175 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/08/16/georgia-ev... [1] - https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/eenews/2026/02/23/us-grid-batteries-surge-30-to-all-time-record-00791809 https://subscriber.politicopro.com/article/eenews/2026/02/23... [2] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44469669 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44469669 [3] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39909329 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39909329
- moomin 8mo ago
  A lot of people’s problems with H1B visas has nothing to do with protecting American jobs. The truth is H1B visa are a method of exploiting foreign workers. Make H1B run for a fixed time period and not be tied to a specific job and you’ll simultaneously boost the supply of highly-skilled workers and ensure they get a fair market price.
  - alephnerd 8mo ago
    > Make H1B run for a fixed time period They already are. > not be tied to a specific job I agree, and lobbied for that on the Hill years ago but this was during the DREAM act battle [0] so it got nowhere. > you’ll simultaneously boost the supply of highly-skilled workers and ensure they get a fair market price I agree. [0] - https://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/nancy-pelosi-immigration-reform-101014 https://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/nancy-pelosi-immigrat...

RobotToaster 8mo ago

It's honestly impressive how Tesla has managed snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Zigurd 8mo ago
Seriously. While it can't be more than speculative, it's a pretty solid speculation that a competent follow on to Model 3 would've put the rest of the automotive industry so far behind they would never catch up. Instead, Elon wasted the opportunity on the Cybertruck ego trip to show that he's the genius that transformed cars. Once people catch on to the fact that launching 15 to 25 refueling rockets isn't a viable way to get beyond earth orbit, another project is going to turn out to be an Elon ego trip.
- hvb2 8mo ago
  I get your point about Tesla. I don't get it at all about SpaceX... You might have said the same about landing and reusing a booster. It's impossible, until someone does it. If they screw up a project it's mostly their own money they're burning. You want to take a ride on Starliner? Because without crew dragon the US would still be politely begging Russia for seats to the ISS.

paxys 8mo ago

Tesla stock up 15% on the news, probably.

mtmickush 8mo ago
2.25% so far today. How does this seem to always happen?
- rvnx 8mo ago
  When you are investor and broadly choose to buy US companies (which is what most people do), you get Tesla in the list (e.g. QQQ) as part of the package, and this pushes price higher, no matter if you believe in Tesla specifically or not. In addition, existing investors are very very deep into Tesla now, and don't want to lose. The sandcastle is quite fragile so one of the best strategy for everyone (funds and Musk) is to keep buying more, no matter if the news are bad or not. It works, until other people disagree with you, but so far, nobody is interested into losing that game.
  - Marsymars 8mo ago
    > When you are investor and broadly choose to buy US companies (which is what most people do), you get Tesla in the list (e.g. QQQ) as part of the package, and this pushes price higher, no matter if you believe in Tesla specifically or not. I actually short Tesla just enough to offset my long positions that come as part of my regular ETFs.
    - myvoiceismypass 8mo ago
      Can you share more specifics on how you go about doing that? Do you do that for your long non-ETF positions too?
      - Marsymars 8mo ago
        > Can you share more specifics on how you go about doing that? I buy multi-year put options, there's some fuzziness around the appropriate strike price and number of options for a given long position, but effectively I'm paying the option premium to limit my downside risk. > Do you do that for your long non-ETF positions too? No, my non-ETF positions are negligible.

arghandugh 8mo ago

[dead]

lumost 8mo ago

Tesla and similar companies really make me wonder if we still live in a capitalist system. If wealth is sufficiently concentrated - the value of anything becomes tied to the whims of the few who can transact at that level. How a stock goes up while sales growth, profitability, and other measures go down on a multi-year trajectory defies my understanding.

moomin 8mo ago
One of the things I’ve noticed is that when leftists say “capitalism” they often mean “the ability of capital to set the rules of markets” rather than just “markets”. This causes people who use the latter interpretation and leftists to talk past one another quite a bit. Which is one of the reasons that leftists have sounded this alarm bell for at least twenty years and no-one has paid attention.
- api 8mo ago
  When leftists say "capitalism" they mean something closer to what conservatives and free market libertarians mean by "fascism."
- speed_spread 8mo ago
  Capitalism is a big money party. Leftists are the party poopers, actually just slightly less drunk than the rest of the guests, and pointing out that lighting up fireworks indoors isn't a good idea. Booo-hooo, shut up lefty! *BANG*
  - gadflyinyoureye 8mo ago
    Command economies break too. Capitalism has occasional fires like a forest. This is good. It allows things to shake out. New growth comes from the destruction. Command economies don't. They just continue to grow weeds and tall trees until everything is choked. Then they wonder why everything is garbage. The US is moving to a fascist economy. That is a form of command economy. For example the FDA is controlled by big pharma.

siliconc0w 8mo ago

In other news, the lack of demand makes them pretty cheap at the moment. You can find a 2023 HW4 Plaid Model S for <$50k.

joering2 8mo ago
why? would you buy a used cellphone with 70% functioning battery?
- wcoenen 8mo ago
  EV batteries degrade nowhere near that fast. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery-life-80-percent-capacity-840km-1-million-km/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-battery-life-80-percent-capa...
  - porphyra 8mo ago
    And even a 80% battery on a model S is still 320 miles of EPA range which is a lot better than many other EVs.
    - hvb2 8mo ago
      A model S is also significantly more expensive than many other EVs so that's not super surprising?
      - porphyra 8mo ago
        Well the parent comment is talking about how cheap a used Model S is, and I'm saying that even with battery degradation, a used Model S still has way more range than other used or new EVs in that price range.
- tirant 8mo ago
  ICE also degrade over time. Batteries tend to last way longer than internal combustion engines.

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

mschuster91 8mo ago

No surprise there. There is so much competition these days and the market is exploding, especially on the lowest end - Dacia's Spring for example is 15.700 €, if you add Germany's subsidies of 6000 € you're at 9.700 € [1] for a brand new car, even if it isn't even made in Romania but in China instead (the fact that this is likely still making a profit despite shipping costs is insane). On the high end, BMW and Mercedes have finally caught up as well, and produce better cars for the same price point with a better support/maintenance infrastructure. Meanwhile, what does Tesla have in production? Dated stuff on the mid to high price range, rumors are they will stop making some models entirely and a "Cybertruck" that not just looks so similar to a dumpster that raccoons confuse it with literal dumpsters [2] but is unable to ever be certified for European roads because its form is seen as a threat to road safety. So that alone has a serious impact on Tesla's sales. Then come the never ending stories about supply chain issues especially for spare parts and the quality control issues - like, WTF, a Cybertruck is 60k? Why should people put up with delaminating glue (and why was glue used in the first place?) or rust issues [3]? So that's another dent in the sales, people don't buy lemons. And finally, the antics of Elon himself and the company in general. The cars are nicknamed "swasticars" ever since Musk's infamous right arm salute, in the Nordic countries (that used to love Tesla) they are refusing to deal with unions for two years now [4], and here in Germany there is a big dispute related to the upcoming works council election (i.e. what y'all Americans would consider an union) [5]. There just aren't that many reasons left to buy a Tesla, and the reasons to buy an ICE vehicle are rapidly going away as well. I'd have zero issues buying a Dacia Spring or a Citroen, if only they'd add a trailer towing hitch that can be used for more than a bicycle rack. [1] https://www.dacia.de/kampagnen/daciaelektrobonus.html https://www.dacia.de/kampagnen/daciaelektrobonus.html [2] https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/animals-mistake-tesla-cybertruck-for-trash/news-story/ad29a6196e36d81215f44b26080b25e4 https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/an... [3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2025/04/21/tesla-cybertruck-suffers-boycotts-recalls-vandalism-and-now-rust/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2025/04/21/tesla-cybe... [4] https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-sweden-strikers-tax-issues-if-metall-union-error/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-sweden-strikers-tax-issues-i... [5] https://www.dw.com/en/germany-tesla-charges-trade-union-member-in-ig-metall-fight/a-75913837 https://www.dw.com/en/germany-tesla-charges-trade-union-memb...

tgrowazay 8mo ago

Something is up globally. VAG sold 71 Audi Q4 E-tron in whole Q4 in the US. Only three Q8 E-trons. 220 Q6 and 248 VW ID.4 . Best VAG EV seller for Q4 is Porsche Taycan at 1,672 cars. Total US EV sales Q4 across all manufacturers is 234,171

gmueckl 8mo ago
The US market is extremely regressive due to the changing regulatory environment. I fully expect new ICE cars without catalytic converters in the near future. This is not representative of the rest of the world.
- creaturemachine 8mo ago
  They might be happy that they can keep making V8s, but they have to know any future administration could easily outlaw any design that goes too far backwards. Such a car will also not be able to be sold anywhere else in the world. Heck, by the time they design, tool, and produce such a beast it could already be too late.
  - gmueckl 8mo ago
    Well, just leave the catalytic converter out in the US variants of cars and pocket the difference. That's a far simpler change. I don't want that, but given everything else that's going on, it wouldn't be a surprise.
- upupupandaway 8mo ago
  The demand for EVs is crashing across the board. Porsche for example is now in dire straits because they had promised to make the 718 only as EV and with demand going down, they'll revamp the platform and get ICE 718s back.
- rootusrootus 8mo ago
  Unless the feds can take California out of the regulatory picture, I don't expect major steps backward. Almost half the country adopts California's emissions standards.

leesec 8mo ago

[flagged]

ryandvm 8mo ago

Oof. Good thing they're a "robot company" now. At least until an Optimus decapitates somebody and Tesla has to pivot to monorails or whatever...

gosub100 8mo ago

[flagged]

chrishare 8mo ago
Good doesn't wash away bad
tom_808 8mo ago
Sure. But Mussolini made the trains run on time - right? Can you give an example of one of these "useless" green programs?
- gosub100 8mo ago
  > But Mussolini made the trains run on time - right? making an inappropriate hand gesture is comparable to being a mass murderer? > Can you give an example of one of these "useless" green programs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra
  - 5upplied_demand 8mo ago
    > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra Your own example undermines your point. Solyndra, a company, was part of a much larger Energy Department program that was profitable for the US government. Tesla itself was kept afloat by loans from this program [0]. This has all been well-reported, you can read up on it. [1] [0] https://www.theverge.com/2013/5/22/4356860/tesla-repays-465-million-government-green-energy-loan https://www.theverge.com/2013/5/22/4356860/tesla-repays-465-... [1] https://www.npr.org/2014/11/13/363572151/after-solyndra-loss-u-s-energy-loan-program-turning-a-profit https://www.npr.org/2014/11/13/363572151/after-solyndra-loss...
rootusrootus 8mo ago
The Goomba Fallacy strikes again.
- gosub100 8mo ago

small_model 8mo ago

Another fair and balanced headline from Fred, has he put out a neutral to positive article on Tesla in the last 4-5 years? What did Elon do to him?

dj_gitmo 8mo ago
If you are really into EVs, like the author clearly is, than what is happening to Tesla is just sad. Tesla is being run into the ground. It was, and could be, the great American EV success story. But now it's being destroyed by a guy who has clearly lost it. And don't forget that taxpayers have foot the bill for Tesla to have this shot in the first place.
- small_model 8mo ago
  [flagged]
- danny_codes 8mo ago
  Literally just had to make that 25k EV, but I guess Ketamine sidetracks you?
tencentshill 8mo ago
He never claims to be unbiased, and had personal beef with Tesla as a shareholder. https://electrek.co/2024/09/05/i-sold-all-my-tesla-shares-tsla-why/ https://electrek.co/2024/09/05/i-sold-all-my-tesla-shares-ts...

the_mitsuhiko 8mo ago

In many ways I’m impressed they sell that much. They basically just sell one model here in a space with a ton of competition. Also since there is no FSD here and the European autopilot they have is not competitive with the travel assist type offerings from other brands.

jbverschoor 8mo ago
Really? They just launched FSD ride along, and it's amazing. No need to own or drive a car anymore
- the_mitsuhiko 8mo ago
  There is no FSD in Europe.
  - jbverschoor 8mo ago
    https://www.tesla.com/events/fsd-supervised-ride-along-nl https://www.tesla.com/events/fsd-supervised-ride-along-nl
    - the_mitsuhiko 8mo ago
      That's a demo, not a feature in a consumer car you can have today. It might launch, it probably will, but if I buy a Tesla in Austria today, I will not have it.
  - jbverschoor 8mo ago
    https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1r79t3k/tesla_fsd_demo_in_the_netherlands/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1r79t3k/tesla_... https://youtu.be/hcNE8DVLtqA https://youtu.be/hcNE8DVLtqA Etc
- slaw 8mo ago
  missing /s ?

psyclobe 8mo ago

> These are results for what is bev market auto industry > Search instead for what is bev market auto industru > AI Overview > The Battery Electric Vehicle (BEV) market involves vehicles powered exclusively by electricity via onboard battery packs, without any internal combustion engine. It is a rapidly growing, high-investment sector within the automotive industry aimed at zero-emission transportation. Key aspects include accelerating market share, intense competition, and improvements in charging infrastructure.

hermitcrab 8mo ago

Nazi salutes tend not to go down well in Europe. Especially for the sort of people who are interested in buying EVs.

1970-01-01 8mo ago
8,075 owners didn't seem to mind it. Gigafactory 4 hums along with them. That's still a respectable output for any car factory.

pbasista 8mo ago

I am not surprised. Considering only the main segment, i.e. Model 3 and Model Y, there has not been any major innovation by Tesla for years. No significantly better battery technology. No significantly more powerful or efficient motors. No significantly improved comfort. They have been making minor improvements in many areas, yes. For instance, they added ventilated seats, adaptive suspension, front camera, etc. But those are not new technologies that would make them stand out. The competition already had such features before. Meanwhile, the Chinese cars have head-up displays, massage seats, vehicle to load, internal power outlets, fridges, dimmable glass roofs and what not. One might argue that Tesla is improving their driving assist technologies and that is, in Tesla's view, supposed to be the deciding factor which would make them stand out. But I am not sure about that. Their better driving assist (the so-called "FSD") has not been available in Europe for years. But that is almost besides the point. The most important question is, in my opinion, the following: Who cares about those systems enough that they would be willing to pay $100 a month or $8k, $10k, $15k or even more one time for this kind of technology? From what I have heard, the majority of drivers does not care. Not for this kind of money. No matter how good such a system might be. Assuming that there will be a significant number of people who would be willing to pay thousands of dollars extra for a driving assist feature is, in my opinion, detached from reality.

efavdb 8mo ago
FWIW I have heard the exact opposite. The people I know love the self driving feature.
- pbasista 8mo ago
  This is not about loving the feature. It is about willing to pay the current asking price for it.
dubeye 8mo ago
millions of owners have bought FSD
- pbasista 8mo ago

kazinator 8mo ago

> The growth looks even stronger when you strip out Tesla’s numbers. Every registration of an electric vehicle contributes to growth, even from a maker that is losing market share; they should reconsider their funny math. If you strip out Tesla's numbers, which contribute electric cars, you have less growth.

expedition32 8mo ago

Kia and Skoda are the biggest sellers in my country. They beat the shit out of a model 3. Tesla XYZ are luxury cars and thus irrelevant for the unwashed masses. Yet they get all the press...

Markoff 8mo ago
they are not even luxury cars compared to Porsche, Mercedes or other EV brands

maxwellsdeamons 8mo ago

The Nazi salutes were kind of a turn off for many European customers. Just not flying so well here.

tim333 8mo ago
I was just looking at Elon's X posts for 24 hours and there were about 15 posts about immigrants, pakistani rape gangs and so on, a few about AI, none about cars. He seems distracted.

c0nstantien 8mo ago

[dead]

kalleboo 8mo ago

Petrol/Diesel registrations down 25% YoY seems like a much more interesting story. If that was EVs there would be headlines "EVs are over! It was just a fad" but when it happens to ICE cars it's crickets?

thefz 8mo ago

No other brand - aside Apple - holds such power of flagging the owner/wielder of an object as an asshole.

tistoon 8mo ago

Yep... this user (breve) doesn't like Tesla.. ..we got it now. breve posted on HN: Tesla EU registrations crash 17% (Feb 24, 2026) Tesla Crash rate 3× worse than humans (Jan 29, 2026) EV sales booming without Tesla (Nov 17, 2025) By the way.. Tesla is no more a car company anymore.. change your software :)