6 ms·

FCC asks stations for "pro-America" programming, like daily Pledge of Allegiance

124 points by pseudalopex 8mo ago

mindslight 8mo ago
Let's start with some readings of the Declaration of Independence. They promised us another American Revolution. They neglected to mention that they were planning on taking the position of King George and the redcoats.
- CamperBob2 8mo ago
  No, they didn't neglect to mention it at all: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/16/project-2025-violent-rhetoric-heritage https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/16/project-2025... “We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.” Almost all of history's greatest, most-destructive conspiracies were not concealed in smoke-filled rooms, they were published and advertised to great fanfare. This one included.
  - mindslight 8mo ago
    I didn't say the intentions weren't plain as day for anyone not stuck in the Fraudster in Chief's reality distortion field. Just that they abused the reference to the history without actually owning up to where in the analogy their agenda sits. Lawless gangs of soldiers terrorizing American cities for political purposes is straight out of the Revolution. And yeah "bloodless, if the left allows it". It's always projection and gaslighting with these fascists. "Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself. Look what you made me do." (see also "TDS" to describe anybody not in the Fraudster in Chief's reality distortion field)
  - tombert 8mo ago
    > Almost all of history's greatest, most-destructive conspiracies were not concealed in smoke-filled rooms, they were published and advertised to great fanfare. This one included. I agree, and I've always found it kind of amusing. There is a conspiracy of elites that are actively trying to bring you down to enrich themselves, and they exert absurd amounts of control on the government, tax policy, and actively use their platform to move public opinion in their favor. We call that group of elites "billionaires", and it's not really even hidden. Elon Musk was the CEO of like five companies while still heading a government "department", but for some reason Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson aren't going on long tirades about how utterly inappropriate that is. Instead they go on about "satanists" and "child sacrifices" and then their listeners will replace those with "Jews".
  - JohnTHaller 8mo ago
    Yup. Millions happily voted for Project 2025. It reminds me of the people who railed against Obamacare but were horrified ending it would also effect their Affordable Care Act plans.
- themafia 8mo ago
  It's always the Declaration and never the Constitution. I suppose getting to Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3 is a disappointing early start to what is meant to be a uniting and patriotic activity.
  - mindslight 8mo ago
    Ideals are much more inspiring than a specific attempt at implementation, which if we're being honest with ourselves as systems engineers, has failed pretty spectacularly in a few ways.
- insane_dreamer 8mo ago
  these truths ... all men* are created equal *white male landowner
  - mindslight 8mo ago
    That the founders were able to articulate lofty ideals while steeped in being oppressors in multiple ways isn't the condemnation you seem to think it is. Rather it's more commendable that they were able to be so forward thinking, as people with power benefiting from the society they were in. Our modern interpretation of that sentence would most certainly have shocked many of the people who supported it in the context of the time, and yet they were able to draw a rough sketch that we are still appealing to eight generations later as a beacon of progress! Of course it is important to guard against those who would dredge up that historic context as what "the founders intended" to try and drag us back there, on some rosy vision of the past where all of the problems seem quaint (as they've been addressed in the current day).
    - insane_dreamer 8mo ago
      yeah, no a lofty ideal is worthless if you're not actually striving to put it into practice, which they did not
      - mindslight 8mo ago
        They did strive to put it in practice, in the societal context of their time. You seem to be missing that progress is a gradual process of painstaking change. Presumably you're looking at what we currently have, thinking its manifestly obvious, and taking it for granted. But to me, this kind of thinking actually contributes to sliding backwards.
        insane_dreamer 8mo ago
        thanks, but I've read history too. The "revolution" (which despite the name wasn't much of a revolution since it maintained much of the social structure that came before it) was the opportunity to make some great leaps of progress, which the founders, is their now revered wisdom, failed to do. These did eventually come but some of them only at great expense and activism (abolition movement, workers progressive movement, suffrage movement, civil right movement). Voting rights in the new US were much the same as those in British Empire they broke away from, where white adult landowning males had been able to vote for some time. As for slavery, most countries still allowed it, but abolishing it, while admittedly a big step forward, would still have been possible within the context of the time, and one of the strides of progress one would expect from people who declare independence on the basis of "all men being created equal". Some States began to abolish it shortly afterwards, and France did so with its own actual revolution (with its own set of problems). You might be comfortable with it all, but I expect much more from the founders than some nice words on a page. Ironically, the fundamental basis for the revolution was "taxation without representation", which we _still_ have in the United States today (i.e., PR).
toomuchtodo 8mo ago
https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-418890A1.pdf https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-418890A1.pdf
- HillRat 8mo ago
  It takes quite a bit of chutzpah to lament that "classic programming such as Schoolhouse Rock! is now only found in online archives" when this same administration defunded the CPB, previously responsible for developing just that kind of educational content.
  - nunez 8mo ago
    Schoolhouse was always aired by ABC, but your point stands. (Sesame Street and Fred Rogers wouldn't exist without the CPB.)
jmclnx 8mo ago
How about forcing all stations to: 1. read from the bible between between 16:00 and 20:00 2. At 20:00 show Trump's picture for 5 minutes with people praising him 3. rest of the programming are shows based upon Leave it to Beaver and my 3 sons, make sure only WASPS are the actors and producers. That is what the US admin. really wants. If I see more than one of these "PSAs" in a 4 hour period, I will never watch that network again. FWIW, I stream as opposed to using Cable. So they will know why I cancelled their service.
- lenerdenator 8mo ago
  Eh, they wouldn't do Leave it to Beaver, just reruns of The Apprentice.
  - JKCalhoun 8mo ago
    Yeah, Leave it to Beaver had an episode where Beaver befriends a Hispanic boy that only speaks Spanish.
- Aeolun 8mo ago
  Those are’t the prime slots. Before 8 in the morning (before school), and somewhere between 6 and 7, during or right after dinner (make it a family activity)
- insane_dreamer 8mo ago
  It's coming sooner than you think: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trumps-face-is-now-on-the-justice-department-headquarters https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trumps-face-is-now-on-...
tokai 8mo ago
>Although it’s described as voluntary, Carr said broadcasters can meet their public interest obligations by taking the pledge. This is notable because Carr has repeatedly threatened to punish broadcast stations for violating the public interest standard. But apparently Europe are the ones with freedom of speech issues.
- parineum 8mo ago
  Two things can be true
- erxam 8mo ago
  Freedom of speech: pro-US propaganda Lack of freedom of speech: anything else
  - jjtwixman 8mo ago
    Pretty much. Americans want to export their fascist ideology to Europe under the guise of "freedom of speech". They need to get their own house in order first, frankly.
    - za3faran 8mo ago
      Not just to Europe, we've seen what they did to Western Asia "Middle East" over the past decades under the guise of "freedom".
      - erxam 8mo ago
        The whole world, frankly. The mere concept of "freedom of speech" is a Trojan horse for far-right movements to gain ground amongst the peoples of the world. We fucked up from the very moment we let agitators spread their poison around without any sort of punishment. Now the rot is widespread enough that they're making their moves.
    - wakawaka28 8mo ago
      [flagged]
josefritzishere 8mo ago
Mandatory state ideology is very worrisome.
- jsbisviewtiful 8mo ago
  This seems like something the current SCOTUS would shut down very quickly, but I could be wrong.
  - mindslight 8mo ago
    This seems like something the current SCOTUS might shut down in 13 months. Long enough to do some real damage to our country, but short enough that true believers will claim it was never given a chance.
  - lenerdenator 8mo ago
    So was racial profiling for the sake of immigration enforcement, but, well...
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
  - drivingmenuts 8mo ago
    The current SCOTUS has, so far, given the Trump administration a lot of rope to hang us by. If they use it to hang themselves remains to be seen.
    - actionfromafar 8mo ago
      Down the road they are taking us, there's rope for everyone. A-plenty. Even for them, even though they may believe otherwise now. There's no loyalty among thieves.
- conductr 8mo ago
  Nothing mandatory, so no worries
HardwareLust 8mo ago
Nothing says you're selling an inferior product better than having to propagandize people into believing in it.
- Ancalagon 8mo ago
  sounds like the state of AI
  - embedding-shape 8mo ago
    Sounds like "products"
    - cyberge99 8mo ago
      Some consumers need to be educated about a product. (different problem, but that’s the why)
- lm28469 8mo ago
  uh, new around here? That's what the US have been doing for the past century+
- wakawaka28 8mo ago
  Lots of people take for granted that their government exists and doesn't suck as bad as those in other places. Say what you want about it, but every successful country cultivates a national culture and identity. This is especially important for countries where the people are very heterogeneous in other identity facets. If people feel no particular affinity for the country because they are rarely encouraged to stop and think about it, how exactly would anyone be found who is willing to defend the country itself and thus their own existence which they take for granted?
  - happymellon 8mo ago
    > Lots of people take for granted that their government exists and doesn't suck as bad as those in other places. From the UK. Our government definitely sucks, and has basically had the same hostile policies despite switching between different parties. https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53806-how-popular-is-donald-trump-in-europe-december-2025 https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53806-how-popular-is-... People wish that we would stop pandering to the US, at least to the level that we do.
techblueberry 8mo ago
This feels a little excessively cynical, you still might hate it, but it's specifically for the 250th Anniversary of America. Federal Communications Commission Chairman Brendan Carr today urged broadcasters to join a “Pledge America Campaign” that Carr established to support President Trump’s “Salute to America 250” project. Carr said in a press release that “I am inviting broadcasters to pledge to air programming in their local markets in support of this historic national, non-partisan celebration.” The press release said Carr is asking broadcasters to “air patriotic, pro-America programming in support of America’s 250th birthday.” Carr gave what he called examples of content that broadcasters can run if they take the pledge. His examples include “starting each broadcast day with the ‘Star Spangled Banner’ or Pledge of Allegiance”; airing “PSAs, short segments, or full specials specifically promoting civic education, inspiring local stories, and American history”; running “segments during regular news programming that highlight local sites that are significant to American and regional history, such as National Park Service sites”; airing “music by America’s greatest composers, such as John Philip Sousa, Aaron Copland, Duke Ellington, and George Gershwin”; and providing daily “Today in American History” announcements highlighting significant events from US history. I don't know that "pledge" should be the right word, just maybe like encourage? And like way to speed run the death of broadcast television, but whatever.
- dghlsakjg 8mo ago
  In isolation, it makes sense. In context it comes off as a thin veneer of jingoism on top of an implied threat.
- pseudalopex 8mo ago
  > This feels a little excessively cynical, you still might hate it, but it's specifically for the 250th Anniversary of America. > I don't know that "pledge" should be the right word, just maybe like encourage? The article addressed this. Although it’s described as voluntary, Carr said broadcasters can meet their public interest obligations by taking the pledge. This is notable because Carr has repeatedly threatened to punish broadcast stations for violating the public interest standard. “If this were genuinely intended as voluntary, and genuinely about celebrating America, there is no reason to limit this to broadcasters,” Feld told Ars. “Cable operators are equally free to celebrate America, as are podcasters for that matter.”
beanjuiceII 8mo ago
[flagged]
tolerance 8mo ago
How might this campaign appear under an administration ran by a Democrat?
- Kapura 8mo ago
  it just wouldnt? what are you trying to say
  - tolerance 8mo ago
    What purpose is this submission supposed to serve? What kind of discussion around it do you think would be more appropriate?
    - garciasn 8mo ago
      I think it’s incredibly important to have active and engaging conversations about the FCC on HN, regardless of political ideology, because of our shared identity as those deeply involved with tech. We should be openly discussing whether freedom of speech and information is being infringed by governments around the world in ways which can and do infringe upon our world.
      - tolerance 8mo ago
        So how might a campaign such as this be advanced or advertised in ways that don’t infringe upon Democratic values?
        garciasn 8mo ago
        It simply shouldn’t be? Nationalistic and forced religious belief (i.e., which is what the altered Pledge is) are antithetical to the US Constitution and are NOT in the public interest.
        tolerance 8mo ago
        Do you believe that such a campaign would not exist under a President who is a Democrat? I’m sure it’s easy to assume that these questions aren’t in good faith. Of course I have a point of my own that I could make, but then we’d be arguing over that instead and I’m less interested in trying to speculate better than you than I’m curious about what you think on your own. So there isn’t any way that an administration led by a Democrat would implement such a campaign? You can’t imagine that? If not under an identical premise (viz. the US semiquincentennial) but under some other initiative to instill non-partisan nationalist pride at a time where it is virtually absent?
ctoth 8mo ago
So they sent this little warning, they're prepared to do their worst And they stuck it in your mailbox hoping you could be coerced I can think of quite another place they should have stuck it first
trebligdivad 8mo ago
I suggest a daily airing of Leonard Cohen's 'Democracy'
ArchieScrivener 8mo ago
[flagged]
- cucumber3732842 8mo ago
  Every day at noon one of the radio stations in my city plays either the national anthem or America the Beautiful. I'm sure all 20 people still listening to FM radio hear it. I don't see a problem with it.
  - garciasn 8mo ago
    I don’t see a problem with a broadcast channel deciding what it is they want to air on their station. I do, however, have a serious problem with the government /potentially/ forcing nationalistic and god-fearing content (e.g., the altered Pledge) on the country’s inhabitants who choose to listen to broadcast networks. These are supposedly voluntary; and, if so, cool. But; if they later use it against a network, then it’s a big issue. Freedom of speech and expression is an inherent right of the US under its Constitution; government-forced nationalism and religious ideology is not in the public interest, regardless of which political party is in power.
  - nunez 8mo ago
    I would have a massive problem with someone like KEXP being forced to do this. Though I'm sure they would find a way of complying without complying.
- RickJWagner 8mo ago
  [flagged]
- RupertSalt 8mo ago
  By the time I started staying up late, it seemed that most United States-based stations didn't "sign off" much at all. However, the "border blaster" stations in Mexico would sign off precisely on schedule, playing the Mexican National Anthem [audio] with men's chorus and brass band. The radio stations were required to broadcast "The Mexican National Hour" in the Spanish language, which turned Sunday evenings into a series of special-programming blocks.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
rsynnott 8mo ago
Freedom of speech, provided, of course, that it is Correct speech.
throwaway27448 8mo ago
We really are becoming the worst parts of what we were told was communism growing up, but without the redeeming parts. What a joke.
Buttons840 8mo ago
Does the pledge of allegiance actually do anything? I can't even remember if I did it in school. I first thought "oh, my State must not have done the pledge in school", but after more reflection I think I did but just doing remember.
- ctoth 8mo ago
  Wow, that doesn't terrify you? We're talking about a thing that, if you did it, you would have done at least ~2000 times in a typical 12 years of school. Every morning. Do you remember other school events?
  - aaomidi 8mo ago
    Routine stuff actually just fades very easily.
    - ctoth 8mo ago
      Sure sure -- I can't tell you what I ate for dinner on an arbitrary Tuesday or something but a routine thing from 12 years? Knowing whether or not you did that routine at least? Seems like something you should probably remember? I donno I'm only 36 maybe it just gets lots harder from here.
- tombert 8mo ago
  I went to a grand total of five schools in Florida: one grade school, two middle schools, and two high schools. The first two were in upstate conservative Florida, the last three were in Orlando (which is comparatively more progressive). Every school expected me to say it every morning.
- wakawaka28 8mo ago
  It reminds kids that they live in the United States, and that the country has values, and that they will be expected to defend the country as part of the social contract. I don't know if other countries have pledges like this but on the surface it seems OK to me. I think it also inspires worthwhile conversations about what we owe to the country (or not).
cmxch 8mo ago
So basically Voice of America scaled up?
- actionfromafar 8mo ago
  Haha, no, Voice of America can't be as crude. But it was directed at a different audience. This propaganda direction - inwards, serves another purpose: to remind the listener who's boss, or Daddy, if you will.
- nebula8804 8mo ago
  Do you really have a problem with VOA when they produce pieces like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wto1IYLRRRE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wto1IYLRRRE Other big countries all have their propaganda outfits. Why shouldn't the US at least have something to promote their point of view? The alternative as we are experiencing now is that point of view is never even expressed among the competing points of view and thus any ideas deriving from it never get discussed.
yed 8mo ago
Fun fact: the Pledge of Allegiance was written by an avowed socialist [0] and was intended to counter the individualistic and capitalistic tendencies he saw in American culture. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy
- tombert 8mo ago
  Regardless of who wrote it I've always kind of thought it was weird. If America is a great country then it should be self-evident and we don't need to try and indoctrinate children with it.
- thrance 8mo ago
  The original pledge was quite different, and indeed sounds more socialist: > I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Also, did you know children had to do a "Bellamy Salute" to the flag? That was removed during WW2 for obvious reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute
  - nunez 8mo ago
    Wow; today I learned!!!
- wakawaka28 8mo ago
  Great information! I assumed it was some random patriotic thing, but this sounds sinister. It's probably not a big deal but I don't really know how much influence it actually has. Most people seem to see it as tolerable or cheesy, not some great and worthwhile gesture.
tombert 8mo ago
When I was in sixth grade I found out (I am not sure how actually) that I didn’t have to say the pledge if I didn’t want to. I didn’t (and don’t) believe in God, and I didn’t believe in the “under God” part of the pledge, so I decided that I wouldn’t stand for the pledge anymore. This was an extremely conservative area, and so my teachers were very upset. I told them I don’t have to say the pledge if I don't want (and I believe I had even memorized the specific court case with the Jehova's Witnesses about it). This went on for a week, until I was eventually sent to the principal's office for it. The principal asked why I wouldn't just say it, and I told him because I don't believe in God and I don't have to. He said "well let's just see what your parents see about that". He picked up the phone and called my house, and my dad answered. The situation was explained, and then my dad said "why is he in trouble again? I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to say it if he doesn't want to." The principal responded back with "well sir, it's very disrespectful if he--". My dad interrupted and said "it doesn't matter if it's respectful, if he doesn't have to say it then he doesn't have to say it. You should probably send him back to class". I went back to class and nothing that day came from it at school. I was slightly afraid that I would get in trouble when I got home. I knew my dad had fought for me but I thought that he might have just wanted to make sure I don't get into any official trouble, so when I got home I was prepared for a lecture and maybe being sent to my room. My dad sat me down and said "You're not in trouble, you did what you thought was right, but why does it really matter if you have to say the pledge? It'd probably be easier if you just said it" and I quickly responded back with "because I don't believe in God and I don't think I should be forced to say it." My dad basically said that if this important to me, then he will support me. He wrote a note explaining that he doesn't have an issue with me not saying it if I don't want to, signed it and put his phone number if they have any questions, and he said to keep it in my backpack and show it to teachers if there's ever an issue. I love America most of the time, but I think America can be great even if there isn't mandatory indoctrination. I look back and feel grateful that my parents were pretty cool with this.
- Aeolun 8mo ago
  Are there really parents that would force their children to say it anyway? This feels like such a bizarre thing to have a fight over.
analognoise 8mo ago
There's no way to make a thing more unpopular with a massive swathe of Americans than to force us to participate. I think they should use up all their social capital and definitely force government to do this, and it will go brilliantly for them in the midterms. Definitely do this. Maybe even send police around to rough up everyone and say it randomly, Americans love that.
- philistine 8mo ago
  I mean, think about it. If they were truly competent and trying to indoctrinate people, they would ask YouTube and TikTok to force people every 24 hours to watch the pledge of allegiance.
sushshs 8mo ago
I used to think stuff like this was immoral and cringe. As I’ve aged, it’s become more and more obvious you need a tribe or you’ll lose to somebody that does. I’m not personally Christian, but I grew up and generally like white Christian societies compared to the alternative. And my morals are basically inline with the religion - how could they not be? The west was a Christian project until very recently. It’d be like a fish asking “what’s water?”. So ubiquitous you don’t even realize it until it’s gone. That being said, Trump is awful and his admin is not gonna do anything but gaslight his supporters, so while im ok with this in principle, I’m aware in reality it’ll be used for net negative things (akin to his cruel fumbling of deportations).
- orwin 8mo ago
  > And my morals are basically inline with the religion - how could they not be? The religion is aligned to fit your cultural moral code. Because original Jesus would be _very_ disappointed in most US christians. "it is harder for the rich to enter heaven than for a camel walking through the eye of a needle", and all the parables about the good samaritain and the temple merchants, presenting the other cheek, etc. Catechism basically told me "god do not exist and whatever the original teaching were, it has been a very long time since anyone of importance ever followed them"
puppycodes 8mo ago
pledging allegence aloud to anything is bizarre and reminds of some sort of knights of the round table cosplay. It's especially weird making kids do it.
- embedding-shape 8mo ago
  Cults doing cult stuff, bizarre indeed and seems widespread, strangely enough.
tempodox 8mo ago
Dear Leader will appreciate your help with brainwashing the masses.
nunez 8mo ago
To be the contrarian, I actually don't mind a call for more patriotic programming to celebrate the USA's 250th. That makes sense. I definitely mind the slippery slope this precedent introduces. (Why not just keep doing this?) I'm also concerned that this letter is more of a "mandate" than a "call." Regardless, Carr's letter searches hard for nostalgia. "Schoolhouse Rock" not being in syndication is eroding our nations educational strength according to him. This makes me wonder who this letter is really written for and how far-reaching they're "asking" content providers to take this. Most Americans consume traditionally-broadcasted content through streaming platforms (Disney+ has Schoolhouse; the future of our kids is safe).and/or social media. Does Carr want Netflix to show the Pledge before every stream? The first stream of the day? Are they asking streaming providers to prioritize nationalistic programming in their recommendation algorithms outside of nationalistic holidays? Will they subsidize TV and movies for having a little more freedom in them? So many questions. (All of this has been done before; I think there were pro-military Looney Tunes episodes back then these were shown in theaters, and the DoD does throw studios some cash to make the military look awesome and help full their recruitment pipeline.
- tolerance 8mo ago
  > Does Carr want Netflix to show the Pledge before every stream? The first stream of the day? Are they asking streaming providers to prioritize nationalistic programming in their recommendation algorithms outside of nationalistic holidays? Will they subsidize TV and movies for having a little more freedom in them? So many questions. These scenarios all seem imminent, their precedence not withstanding. In a strange way this notice actually comes across as transparent, considering the thought that everything you described could be achieved without the public being informed of the cooperation between the state and media. Tangentially, this entire thing could be a veiled notice to Netflix on how to curry the favor necessary to wrestle Warner Bros. away from the Ellisons. Conspiratorially, I’ve read that a lot of production for TV/film is moving overseas and I can’t help but imagine these studios and sets being used for other purposes.
  - nunez 8mo ago
    > Conspiratorially, I’ve read that a lot of production for TV/film is moving overseas Always has been. A huge amount of US content is filmed in Canada.
taegee 8mo ago
We've already been there. -.- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Mathematik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Mathematik I recommend translating the German version as it is much more detailed. > "But far more important is the educational value that stems from the spiritual kinship between mathematics and the Third Reich. The fundamental disposition of both is the heroic. […] Both demand service: mathematics demands service to truth, integrity, and precision. […] Both are anti-materialistic. […] Both desire order and discipline; both combat chaos and arbitrariness." Same for physics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik
keernan 8mo ago
Love of country should originate naturally from the daily experience of its citizens, not some mechanical pledge.
mikewarot 8mo ago
I hereby propose a more elegant version, with all the marketing fluff removed: I pledge Allegiance to Liberty and Justice for all I could handle that once a day.
duxup 8mo ago
Compulsory patriotism isn't patriotism ...
- bdangubic 8mo ago
  The Republican Party is the most un-patriotic Party is the history of the Civilized world. Pretending to love your country while hating its people is really something that will he studied in years to come…

124 points by pseudalopex 8mo ago

Let's start with some readings of the Declaration of Independence. They promised us another American Revolution. They neglected to mention that they were planning on taking the position of King George and the redcoats.

CamperBob2 8mo ago
No, they didn't neglect to mention it at all: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/16/project-2025-violent-rhetoric-heritage https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/16/project-2025... “We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.” Almost all of history's greatest, most-destructive conspiracies were not concealed in smoke-filled rooms, they were published and advertised to great fanfare. This one included.
- mindslight 8mo ago
  I didn't say the intentions weren't plain as day for anyone not stuck in the Fraudster in Chief's reality distortion field. Just that they abused the reference to the history without actually owning up to where in the analogy their agenda sits. Lawless gangs of soldiers terrorizing American cities for political purposes is straight out of the Revolution. And yeah "bloodless, if the left allows it". It's always projection and gaslighting with these fascists. "Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself. Look what you made me do." (see also "TDS" to describe anybody not in the Fraudster in Chief's reality distortion field)
- tombert 8mo ago
  > Almost all of history's greatest, most-destructive conspiracies were not concealed in smoke-filled rooms, they were published and advertised to great fanfare. This one included. I agree, and I've always found it kind of amusing. There is a conspiracy of elites that are actively trying to bring you down to enrich themselves, and they exert absurd amounts of control on the government, tax policy, and actively use their platform to move public opinion in their favor. We call that group of elites "billionaires", and it's not really even hidden. Elon Musk was the CEO of like five companies while still heading a government "department", but for some reason Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson aren't going on long tirades about how utterly inappropriate that is. Instead they go on about "satanists" and "child sacrifices" and then their listeners will replace those with "Jews".
- JohnTHaller 8mo ago
  Yup. Millions happily voted for Project 2025. It reminds me of the people who railed against Obamacare but were horrified ending it would also effect their Affordable Care Act plans.
themafia 8mo ago
It's always the Declaration and never the Constitution. I suppose getting to Article 1, Section 2, Clause 3 is a disappointing early start to what is meant to be a uniting and patriotic activity.
- mindslight 8mo ago
  Ideals are much more inspiring than a specific attempt at implementation, which if we're being honest with ourselves as systems engineers, has failed pretty spectacularly in a few ways.
insane_dreamer 8mo ago
these truths ... all men* are created equal *white male landowner
- mindslight 8mo ago
  That the founders were able to articulate lofty ideals while steeped in being oppressors in multiple ways isn't the condemnation you seem to think it is. Rather it's more commendable that they were able to be so forward thinking, as people with power benefiting from the society they were in. Our modern interpretation of that sentence would most certainly have shocked many of the people who supported it in the context of the time, and yet they were able to draw a rough sketch that we are still appealing to eight generations later as a beacon of progress! Of course it is important to guard against those who would dredge up that historic context as what "the founders intended" to try and drag us back there, on some rosy vision of the past where all of the problems seem quaint (as they've been addressed in the current day).
  - insane_dreamer 8mo ago
    yeah, no a lofty ideal is worthless if you're not actually striving to put it into practice, which they did not
    - mindslight 8mo ago
      They did strive to put it in practice, in the societal context of their time. You seem to be missing that progress is a gradual process of painstaking change. Presumably you're looking at what we currently have, thinking its manifestly obvious, and taking it for granted. But to me, this kind of thinking actually contributes to sliding backwards.
      - insane_dreamer 8mo ago
        thanks, but I've read history too. The "revolution" (which despite the name wasn't much of a revolution since it maintained much of the social structure that came before it) was the opportunity to make some great leaps of progress, which the founders, is their now revered wisdom, failed to do. These did eventually come but some of them only at great expense and activism (abolition movement, workers progressive movement, suffrage movement, civil right movement). Voting rights in the new US were much the same as those in British Empire they broke away from, where white adult landowning males had been able to vote for some time. As for slavery, most countries still allowed it, but abolishing it, while admittedly a big step forward, would still have been possible within the context of the time, and one of the strides of progress one would expect from people who declare independence on the basis of "all men being created equal". Some States began to abolish it shortly afterwards, and France did so with its own actual revolution (with its own set of problems). You might be comfortable with it all, but I expect much more from the founders than some nice words on a page. Ironically, the fundamental basis for the revolution was "taxation without representation", which we _still_ have in the United States today (i.e., PR).

toomuchtodo 8mo ago

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-418890A1.pdf https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-418890A1.pdf

HillRat 8mo ago
It takes quite a bit of chutzpah to lament that "classic programming such as Schoolhouse Rock! is now only found in online archives" when this same administration defunded the CPB, previously responsible for developing just that kind of educational content.
- nunez 8mo ago
  Schoolhouse was always aired by ABC, but your point stands. (Sesame Street and Fred Rogers wouldn't exist without the CPB.)

jmclnx 8mo ago

How about forcing all stations to: 1. read from the bible between between 16:00 and 20:00 2. At 20:00 show Trump's picture for 5 minutes with people praising him 3. rest of the programming are shows based upon Leave it to Beaver and my 3 sons, make sure only WASPS are the actors and producers. That is what the US admin. really wants. If I see more than one of these "PSAs" in a 4 hour period, I will never watch that network again. FWIW, I stream as opposed to using Cable. So they will know why I cancelled their service.

lenerdenator 8mo ago
Eh, they wouldn't do Leave it to Beaver, just reruns of The Apprentice.
- JKCalhoun 8mo ago
  Yeah, Leave it to Beaver had an episode where Beaver befriends a Hispanic boy that only speaks Spanish.
Aeolun 8mo ago
Those are’t the prime slots. Before 8 in the morning (before school), and somewhere between 6 and 7, during or right after dinner (make it a family activity)
insane_dreamer 8mo ago
It's coming sooner than you think: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trumps-face-is-now-on-the-justice-department-headquarters https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trumps-face-is-now-on-...

tokai 8mo ago

>Although it’s described as voluntary, Carr said broadcasters can meet their public interest obligations by taking the pledge. This is notable because Carr has repeatedly threatened to punish broadcast stations for violating the public interest standard. But apparently Europe are the ones with freedom of speech issues.

parineum 8mo ago
Two things can be true
erxam 8mo ago
Freedom of speech: pro-US propaganda Lack of freedom of speech: anything else
- jjtwixman 8mo ago
  Pretty much. Americans want to export their fascist ideology to Europe under the guise of "freedom of speech". They need to get their own house in order first, frankly.
  - za3faran 8mo ago
    Not just to Europe, we've seen what they did to Western Asia "Middle East" over the past decades under the guise of "freedom".
    - erxam 8mo ago
      The whole world, frankly. The mere concept of "freedom of speech" is a Trojan horse for far-right movements to gain ground amongst the peoples of the world. We fucked up from the very moment we let agitators spread their poison around without any sort of punishment. Now the rot is widespread enough that they're making their moves.
  - wakawaka28 8mo ago
    [flagged]

josefritzishere 8mo ago

Mandatory state ideology is very worrisome.

jsbisviewtiful 8mo ago
This seems like something the current SCOTUS would shut down very quickly, but I could be wrong.
- mindslight 8mo ago
  This seems like something the current SCOTUS might shut down in 13 months. Long enough to do some real damage to our country, but short enough that true believers will claim it was never given a chance.
- lenerdenator 8mo ago
  So was racial profiling for the sake of immigration enforcement, but, well...
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
- drivingmenuts 8mo ago
  The current SCOTUS has, so far, given the Trump administration a lot of rope to hang us by. If they use it to hang themselves remains to be seen.
  - actionfromafar 8mo ago
    Down the road they are taking us, there's rope for everyone. A-plenty. Even for them, even though they may believe otherwise now. There's no loyalty among thieves.
conductr 8mo ago
Nothing mandatory, so no worries

HardwareLust 8mo ago

Nothing says you're selling an inferior product better than having to propagandize people into believing in it.

Ancalagon 8mo ago
sounds like the state of AI
- embedding-shape 8mo ago
  Sounds like "products"
  - cyberge99 8mo ago
    Some consumers need to be educated about a product. (different problem, but that’s the why)
lm28469 8mo ago
uh, new around here? That's what the US have been doing for the past century+
wakawaka28 8mo ago
Lots of people take for granted that their government exists and doesn't suck as bad as those in other places. Say what you want about it, but every successful country cultivates a national culture and identity. This is especially important for countries where the people are very heterogeneous in other identity facets. If people feel no particular affinity for the country because they are rarely encouraged to stop and think about it, how exactly would anyone be found who is willing to defend the country itself and thus their own existence which they take for granted?
- happymellon 8mo ago
  > Lots of people take for granted that their government exists and doesn't suck as bad as those in other places. From the UK. Our government definitely sucks, and has basically had the same hostile policies despite switching between different parties. https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53806-how-popular-is-donald-trump-in-europe-december-2025 https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/53806-how-popular-is-... People wish that we would stop pandering to the US, at least to the level that we do.

techblueberry 8mo ago

This feels a little excessively cynical, you still might hate it, but it's specifically for the 250th Anniversary of America. Federal Communications Commission Chairman Brendan Carr today urged broadcasters to join a “Pledge America Campaign” that Carr established to support President Trump’s “Salute to America 250” project. Carr said in a press release that “I am inviting broadcasters to pledge to air programming in their local markets in support of this historic national, non-partisan celebration.” The press release said Carr is asking broadcasters to “air patriotic, pro-America programming in support of America’s 250th birthday.” Carr gave what he called examples of content that broadcasters can run if they take the pledge. His examples include “starting each broadcast day with the ‘Star Spangled Banner’ or Pledge of Allegiance”; airing “PSAs, short segments, or full specials specifically promoting civic education, inspiring local stories, and American history”; running “segments during regular news programming that highlight local sites that are significant to American and regional history, such as National Park Service sites”; airing “music by America’s greatest composers, such as John Philip Sousa, Aaron Copland, Duke Ellington, and George Gershwin”; and providing daily “Today in American History” announcements highlighting significant events from US history. I don't know that "pledge" should be the right word, just maybe like encourage? And like way to speed run the death of broadcast television, but whatever.

dghlsakjg 8mo ago
In isolation, it makes sense. In context it comes off as a thin veneer of jingoism on top of an implied threat.
pseudalopex 8mo ago
> This feels a little excessively cynical, you still might hate it, but it's specifically for the 250th Anniversary of America. > I don't know that "pledge" should be the right word, just maybe like encourage? The article addressed this. Although it’s described as voluntary, Carr said broadcasters can meet their public interest obligations by taking the pledge. This is notable because Carr has repeatedly threatened to punish broadcast stations for violating the public interest standard. “If this were genuinely intended as voluntary, and genuinely about celebrating America, there is no reason to limit this to broadcasters,” Feld told Ars. “Cable operators are equally free to celebrate America, as are podcasters for that matter.”

beanjuiceII 8mo ago

[flagged]

tolerance 8mo ago

How might this campaign appear under an administration ran by a Democrat?

Kapura 8mo ago
it just wouldnt? what are you trying to say
- tolerance 8mo ago
  What purpose is this submission supposed to serve? What kind of discussion around it do you think would be more appropriate?
  - garciasn 8mo ago
    I think it’s incredibly important to have active and engaging conversations about the FCC on HN, regardless of political ideology, because of our shared identity as those deeply involved with tech. We should be openly discussing whether freedom of speech and information is being infringed by governments around the world in ways which can and do infringe upon our world.
    - tolerance 8mo ago
      So how might a campaign such as this be advanced or advertised in ways that don’t infringe upon Democratic values?
      - garciasn 8mo ago
        It simply shouldn’t be? Nationalistic and forced religious belief (i.e., which is what the altered Pledge is) are antithetical to the US Constitution and are NOT in the public interest.
        tolerance 8mo ago
        Do you believe that such a campaign would not exist under a President who is a Democrat? I’m sure it’s easy to assume that these questions aren’t in good faith. Of course I have a point of my own that I could make, but then we’d be arguing over that instead and I’m less interested in trying to speculate better than you than I’m curious about what you think on your own. So there isn’t any way that an administration led by a Democrat would implement such a campaign? You can’t imagine that? If not under an identical premise (viz. the US semiquincentennial) but under some other initiative to instill non-partisan nationalist pride at a time where it is virtually absent?

ctoth 8mo ago

So they sent this little warning, they're prepared to do their worst And they stuck it in your mailbox hoping you could be coerced I can think of quite another place they should have stuck it first

trebligdivad 8mo ago

I suggest a daily airing of Leonard Cohen's 'Democracy'

ArchieScrivener 8mo ago

[flagged]

cucumber3732842 8mo ago
Every day at noon one of the radio stations in my city plays either the national anthem or America the Beautiful. I'm sure all 20 people still listening to FM radio hear it. I don't see a problem with it.
- garciasn 8mo ago
  I don’t see a problem with a broadcast channel deciding what it is they want to air on their station. I do, however, have a serious problem with the government /potentially/ forcing nationalistic and god-fearing content (e.g., the altered Pledge) on the country’s inhabitants who choose to listen to broadcast networks. These are supposedly voluntary; and, if so, cool. But; if they later use it against a network, then it’s a big issue. Freedom of speech and expression is an inherent right of the US under its Constitution; government-forced nationalism and religious ideology is not in the public interest, regardless of which political party is in power.
- nunez 8mo ago
  I would have a massive problem with someone like KEXP being forced to do this. Though I'm sure they would find a way of complying without complying.
RickJWagner 8mo ago
[flagged]
RupertSalt 8mo ago
By the time I started staying up late, it seemed that most United States-based stations didn't "sign off" much at all. However, the "border blaster" stations in Mexico would sign off precisely on schedule, playing the Mexican National Anthem [audio] with men's chorus and brass band. The radio stations were required to broadcast "The Mexican National Hour" in the Spanish language, which turned Sunday evenings into a series of special-programming blocks.

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]

rsynnott 8mo ago

Freedom of speech, provided, of course, that it is Correct speech.

throwaway27448 8mo ago

We really are becoming the worst parts of what we were told was communism growing up, but without the redeeming parts. What a joke.

Buttons840 8mo ago

Does the pledge of allegiance actually do anything? I can't even remember if I did it in school. I first thought "oh, my State must not have done the pledge in school", but after more reflection I think I did but just doing remember.

ctoth 8mo ago
Wow, that doesn't terrify you? We're talking about a thing that, if you did it, you would have done at least ~2000 times in a typical 12 years of school. Every morning. Do you remember other school events?
- aaomidi 8mo ago
  Routine stuff actually just fades very easily.
  - ctoth 8mo ago
    Sure sure -- I can't tell you what I ate for dinner on an arbitrary Tuesday or something but a routine thing from 12 years? Knowing whether or not you did that routine at least? Seems like something you should probably remember? I donno I'm only 36 maybe it just gets lots harder from here.
tombert 8mo ago
I went to a grand total of five schools in Florida: one grade school, two middle schools, and two high schools. The first two were in upstate conservative Florida, the last three were in Orlando (which is comparatively more progressive). Every school expected me to say it every morning.
wakawaka28 8mo ago
It reminds kids that they live in the United States, and that the country has values, and that they will be expected to defend the country as part of the social contract. I don't know if other countries have pledges like this but on the surface it seems OK to me. I think it also inspires worthwhile conversations about what we owe to the country (or not).

cmxch 8mo ago

So basically Voice of America scaled up?

actionfromafar 8mo ago
Haha, no, Voice of America can't be as crude. But it was directed at a different audience. This propaganda direction - inwards, serves another purpose: to remind the listener who's boss, or Daddy, if you will.
nebula8804 8mo ago
Do you really have a problem with VOA when they produce pieces like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wto1IYLRRRE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wto1IYLRRRE Other big countries all have their propaganda outfits. Why shouldn't the US at least have something to promote their point of view? The alternative as we are experiencing now is that point of view is never even expressed among the competing points of view and thus any ideas deriving from it never get discussed.

yed 8mo ago

Fun fact: the Pledge of Allegiance was written by an avowed socialist [0] and was intended to counter the individualistic and capitalistic tendencies he saw in American culture. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bellamy

tombert 8mo ago
Regardless of who wrote it I've always kind of thought it was weird. If America is a great country then it should be self-evident and we don't need to try and indoctrinate children with it.
thrance 8mo ago
The original pledge was quite different, and indeed sounds more socialist: > I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Also, did you know children had to do a "Bellamy Salute" to the flag? That was removed during WW2 for obvious reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute
- nunez 8mo ago
  Wow; today I learned!!!
wakawaka28 8mo ago
Great information! I assumed it was some random patriotic thing, but this sounds sinister. It's probably not a big deal but I don't really know how much influence it actually has. Most people seem to see it as tolerable or cheesy, not some great and worthwhile gesture.

tombert 8mo ago

When I was in sixth grade I found out (I am not sure how actually) that I didn’t have to say the pledge if I didn’t want to. I didn’t (and don’t) believe in God, and I didn’t believe in the “under God” part of the pledge, so I decided that I wouldn’t stand for the pledge anymore. This was an extremely conservative area, and so my teachers were very upset. I told them I don’t have to say the pledge if I don't want (and I believe I had even memorized the specific court case with the Jehova's Witnesses about it). This went on for a week, until I was eventually sent to the principal's office for it. The principal asked why I wouldn't just say it, and I told him because I don't believe in God and I don't have to. He said "well let's just see what your parents see about that". He picked up the phone and called my house, and my dad answered. The situation was explained, and then my dad said "why is he in trouble again? I'm pretty sure he doesn't have to say it if he doesn't want to." The principal responded back with "well sir, it's very disrespectful if he--". My dad interrupted and said "it doesn't matter if it's respectful, if he doesn't have to say it then he doesn't have to say it. You should probably send him back to class". I went back to class and nothing that day came from it at school. I was slightly afraid that I would get in trouble when I got home. I knew my dad had fought for me but I thought that he might have just wanted to make sure I don't get into any official trouble, so when I got home I was prepared for a lecture and maybe being sent to my room. My dad sat me down and said "You're not in trouble, you did what you thought was right, but why does it really matter if you have to say the pledge? It'd probably be easier if you just said it" and I quickly responded back with "because I don't believe in God and I don't think I should be forced to say it." My dad basically said that if this important to me, then he will support me. He wrote a note explaining that he doesn't have an issue with me not saying it if I don't want to, signed it and put his phone number if they have any questions, and he said to keep it in my backpack and show it to teachers if there's ever an issue. I love America most of the time, but I think America can be great even if there isn't mandatory indoctrination. I look back and feel grateful that my parents were pretty cool with this.

Aeolun 8mo ago
Are there really parents that would force their children to say it anyway? This feels like such a bizarre thing to have a fight over.

analognoise 8mo ago

There's no way to make a thing more unpopular with a massive swathe of Americans than to force us to participate. I think they should use up all their social capital and definitely force government to do this, and it will go brilliantly for them in the midterms. Definitely do this. Maybe even send police around to rough up everyone and say it randomly, Americans love that.

philistine 8mo ago
I mean, think about it. If they were truly competent and trying to indoctrinate people, they would ask YouTube and TikTok to force people every 24 hours to watch the pledge of allegiance.

sushshs 8mo ago

I used to think stuff like this was immoral and cringe. As I’ve aged, it’s become more and more obvious you need a tribe or you’ll lose to somebody that does. I’m not personally Christian, but I grew up and generally like white Christian societies compared to the alternative. And my morals are basically inline with the religion - how could they not be? The west was a Christian project until very recently. It’d be like a fish asking “what’s water?”. So ubiquitous you don’t even realize it until it’s gone. That being said, Trump is awful and his admin is not gonna do anything but gaslight his supporters, so while im ok with this in principle, I’m aware in reality it’ll be used for net negative things (akin to his cruel fumbling of deportations).

orwin 8mo ago
> And my morals are basically inline with the religion - how could they not be? The religion is aligned to fit your cultural moral code. Because original Jesus would be _very_ disappointed in most US christians. "it is harder for the rich to enter heaven than for a camel walking through the eye of a needle", and all the parables about the good samaritain and the temple merchants, presenting the other cheek, etc. Catechism basically told me "god do not exist and whatever the original teaching were, it has been a very long time since anyone of importance ever followed them"

puppycodes 8mo ago

pledging allegence aloud to anything is bizarre and reminds of some sort of knights of the round table cosplay. It's especially weird making kids do it.

embedding-shape 8mo ago
Cults doing cult stuff, bizarre indeed and seems widespread, strangely enough.

tempodox 8mo ago

Dear Leader will appreciate your help with brainwashing the masses.

nunez 8mo ago

To be the contrarian, I actually don't mind a call for more patriotic programming to celebrate the USA's 250th. That makes sense. I definitely mind the slippery slope this precedent introduces. (Why not just keep doing this?) I'm also concerned that this letter is more of a "mandate" than a "call." Regardless, Carr's letter searches hard for nostalgia. "Schoolhouse Rock" not being in syndication is eroding our nations educational strength according to him. This makes me wonder who this letter is really written for and how far-reaching they're "asking" content providers to take this. Most Americans consume traditionally-broadcasted content through streaming platforms (Disney+ has Schoolhouse; the future of our kids is safe).and/or social media. Does Carr want Netflix to show the Pledge before every stream? The first stream of the day? Are they asking streaming providers to prioritize nationalistic programming in their recommendation algorithms outside of nationalistic holidays? Will they subsidize TV and movies for having a little more freedom in them? So many questions. (All of this has been done before; I think there were pro-military Looney Tunes episodes back then these were shown in theaters, and the DoD does throw studios some cash to make the military look awesome and help full their recruitment pipeline.

tolerance 8mo ago
> Does Carr want Netflix to show the Pledge before every stream? The first stream of the day? Are they asking streaming providers to prioritize nationalistic programming in their recommendation algorithms outside of nationalistic holidays? Will they subsidize TV and movies for having a little more freedom in them? So many questions. These scenarios all seem imminent, their precedence not withstanding. In a strange way this notice actually comes across as transparent, considering the thought that everything you described could be achieved without the public being informed of the cooperation between the state and media. Tangentially, this entire thing could be a veiled notice to Netflix on how to curry the favor necessary to wrestle Warner Bros. away from the Ellisons. Conspiratorially, I’ve read that a lot of production for TV/film is moving overseas and I can’t help but imagine these studios and sets being used for other purposes.
- nunez 8mo ago
  > Conspiratorially, I’ve read that a lot of production for TV/film is moving overseas Always has been. A huge amount of US content is filmed in Canada.

taegee 8mo ago

We've already been there. -.- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Mathematik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Mathematik I recommend translating the German version as it is much more detailed. > "But far more important is the educational value that stems from the spiritual kinship between mathematics and the Third Reich. The fundamental disposition of both is the heroic. […] Both demand service: mathematics demands service to truth, integrity, and precision. […] Both are anti-materialistic. […] Both desire order and discipline; both combat chaos and arbitrariness." Same for physics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Physik

keernan 8mo ago

Love of country should originate naturally from the daily experience of its citizens, not some mechanical pledge.

mikewarot 8mo ago

I hereby propose a more elegant version, with all the marketing fluff removed: I pledge Allegiance to Liberty and Justice for all I could handle that once a day.

duxup 8mo ago

Compulsory patriotism isn't patriotism ...

bdangubic 8mo ago
The Republican Party is the most un-patriotic Party is the history of the Civilized world. Pretending to love your country while hating its people is really something that will he studied in years to come…