11 ms·
ICE seeks industry input on ad tech location data for investigative use
- raverbashing 8mo agoHey but who cares about cookies anyway right?
- Refreeze5224 8mo agoIf you want to target a demographic, ask the experts.
- doctoboggan 8mo agoHopefully this is a wakeup call to the software engineers and other employees at those companies - it's no longer a hypothetical future where the tools you are building might be abused, it's today.
- mrtksn 8mo agoWhat makes you believe that software engineers are against the stuff happening? This new movement is defined by male loneliness and other sad traits that are quite common among people whom life passes in front of a computer. Curtis Yarvin, one of the masterminds of this new age is a software developer himself. I would argue that whatever is happening now is part of the revenge of the nerds once the nerds remain unsatisfied despite the material possessions they acquired as software ate the world. People deeply disconnected from the real world, seeing numbers and thinking with numbers without understanding the underlying realities of those numbers is a trait of any low touch system that developers and other IT professionals operate within. Just yesterday apparently when asked Trump said "it's just two people" that were executed by ICE and steered the conversation when he was pushed to elaborate. Probably from tech perspective ICE is incredibly well working, in tech world you can take away the livelihood of thousands of people by a single line of a code that changes an algorithm that bans someone or re-sorts the search results. Someone loses their Youtube account they built for years due to algorithm misfiring, someone loses their developer account on an App Store and can't even get a reason for it. The tech world is very used to operate in a fascist high efficiency environment that enshittifies everything that touches but keeps improving on some selected KPI. Maybe they wish it doesn't happen but they are not going to sacrifice higher numbers for the lives of a few people. Welcome to the highly efficient(according to selected KPI) new world order. I know you don't like to hear that as this is a place for IT people but the governance of online platforms is quite fascist across the board. People are banned, shadow banned or rate limited when don't behave or don't say the right stuff. Preserving order and increasing engagement is above everything, even those who claim that they came to make "speech free again" quickly turned into just changing what speech to be allowed. Anything controversial that is attracting negativity is hidden away unless it is feeding the narrative of the platform, then it is actively promoted. Therefore, I don't think that IT workers have any remorse or any problem with this new reality. Its the reality they built and most are loving it. The medium is the message but the medium was built bit by bit by IT professionals in a span of 20 years.
- direwolf20 8mo agoA focus on preserving order is a far liberal/far centrist thing, not fascist. Fascists would ban to achieve political goals and not to maintain order. Major political groups: Liberals/centrists - maintain order/decorum at all costs Fascists - gain power at all costs, in groups of decreasing size Libertarians - reduce taxes at all costs Leftists - argue for an equal society but never get there Conservatives - return to monke
- mrtksn 8mo agoYeah, no. In centrist governments you don’t have a a secret police type law enforcement that go around and “enforce laws”(in quotes because only the laws they like, i.e. laws that say you can't be here without permission but not the laws that say you have certain rights rights) without trials etc by intimidation and executions, that is a fascist thing. In centrist governments the order isn't preserved at all costs, it is preserved within the framework with well defined procedures and that's why its often imperfect and slow and when it becomes too inefficient(i.e. too expensive and too slow to prosecuted a perceived criminal activity) the population may demand fascism as a solution. Gaining power is at all cost as a fascist trait is a good point, Tech companies do that all the time too so techies are often accustomed with that.
- direwolf20 8mo agoCentrists find Gestapo disorderly, and prefer not to have them, but don't confuse this with supporting minority rights.
- tokyobreakfast 8mo agoBut those tools buy Teslas and $8 donuts and cardboard apartments in trendy neighborhoods for people too young to understand how money works.
- badbird3 8mo agoQuite the high horse you got there
- hsbauauvhabzb 8mo agoIt’s worth pointing out that a non-insignificant subset of tech workers know the impacts and still don’t give a fuck though.
- anonym29 8mo agoA lot of them are even proud of being the loyal partners of the US intelligence community, which includes DHS and ICE.
- hsbauauvhabzb 8mo ago@anoym - There isn’t something inherently bad about working for law enforcement or national security agencies as long as what you’re doing cannot be used now or in the future unethically. But too be honest I think this is a ‘don’t hate the player’ type things, if palantir didn’t exist, another company would take its place - privacy legislation is the only thing that prevents it, not relying on ethics of the masses.
- IhateAI 8mo ago[flagged]
- fauchletenerum 8mo agoThis is a childishly simplistic view of the world
- hikkerl 8mo ago[flagged]
- jacquesm 8mo agoYou seem to be a bit scared of doing this all under your own name, comrade. But don't worry, we know exactly who you are.
- maldev 8mo ago[flagged]
- jacquesm 8mo ago> Not only that, but your profile clearly says you aren't even American. Maybe you should focus on your own politics, or things you understand, and not try to threaten people. I'm not threatening anybody, I'm just pointing out that in the aggregate anonymity does not exist as told by TFA whereas the GP seems to believe it holds some weight. The only reason you are able to write your comment is simply because I'm not hiding. You on the other hand are. > I personally, am glad we have this, so I don't experience what I do when I go to Europe, and get a bunch of illegal Africans terrorizing people in front of police. Or let alone the no go zones. Funny, that hasn't happened to me yet. What also hasn't happened to me yet is that I got shot in the face at a protest. But: you are part of the problem, you believe you are part of the solution. The fact that you believe that you are part of the solution but you're not proud enough of it to do so under your own name tells the whole story. It's the equivalent of the mask of those ICE goons. https://jacquesmattheij.com/if-you-have-nothing-to-hide/ https://jacquesmattheij.com/if-you-have-nothing-to-hide/ https://jacquesmattheij.com/trackers/ https://jacquesmattheij.com/trackers/ > I'm glad, to have spend most of my career in the government to stop these people coming in and terrorists. Which is why I can report, the US has a very low terror rate, especially when you look at foreign extremists, unlike other parts of the world. That has something to do with two oceans and nothing at all with your efforts.
- 8mo ago
- niek_pas 8mo agoNARRATOR: It wasn’t.
- riazrizvi 8mo ago[flagged]
- blurbleblurble 8mo ago"It is an interesting and somewhat macabre parlor game to play at a large gathering of [hackernews readers]: to speculate who in a showdown would go Nazi." https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/ https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/
- account42 8mo agoResorting to goodwin is an admission that you have no better argument.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- blurbleblurble 8mo agoI'm not resorting to Goodwin. I'm watching the same exact thing play out worldwide.
- intermerda 8mo agoWhat an incredibly shitty comment which is wrong on so many levels. You are the type of person who believes that Oskar Schindler should have been shot to death for breaking the "law" rather than being celebrated.
- jacquesm 8mo agoI'll be happy to bet he has no idea who that is and why supporting the Nazi's as long as they're doing your bidding is a bad idea.
- prophesi 8mo agoNot OP, but I think the way ICE enforces immigration in the USA has a lot of issues. The bar is too low for people granted the right to utilize lethal force to join, they aren't revoked of the same civilian rights to privacy we give to public enforcers of the law, aren't required to wear bodycams because of their reliance in hiring more people before they can abide by what the law requires, and so on.
- testfrequency 8mo agoIf you’re not awake already, you support what’s happening. Blind, which I realize is a bit of the wild west, is full of racist anti-immigration/pro ICE hatred. Obviously, you can see where users work/worked, and it’s every company you could imagine. The sad reality is that a lot of people will do what they can to support racist agendas, possibly even motivate them to work at certain companies as it feels moralizing to their hateful beliefs.
- andsoitis 8mo ago> you support what’s happening. I don’t know that things are that black and white. Do you feel the same about the billions of consumers who buy and use the products these companies make?
- testfrequency 8mo agoConsumers less so. They are the victims, not the source.
- amelius 8mo agoFully agree. If you want to put the blame on consumers, at least show them on your adverts, product packaging, etc. all the morally abject methods used in the production of the product. If you hide it from them, all the blame is on you.
- dns_snek 8mo agoNo because employees are making the actual thing that inflicts harm while consumers' actions are completely diffused and many steps removed from the harm they cause. That's why ad-tech is so effective in the first place. Consumer pays $1.10 for a can of coke, $0.10 of that goes to ad-tech, the consumer watches some coke ads, ad-tech pays $0.05 to the publisher and the consumer receives $0.05 in benefits in the form of "free ad-supported content" (which they already paid $0.10 for). The only way for consumers to avoid this is to just stop spending money with any brand that advertises online, which is completely unrealistic and a much taller ask than asking employees to give up their deal with the devil (and work for just about anyone else except big tech).
- salawat 8mo agoIt wasn't a hypothetical future back in the time of DoubleClick. In the words of the XO from the Alfa class submarine to his CO in The Hunt for Red October: "You've killed us, you ass."
- cucumber3732842 8mo ago>Hopefully this is a wakeup call to the software engineers and other employees at those companies No, it won't be. Except perhaps to too few to make a difference. The money is too good.
- account42 8mo agoIf you need to wait until the tools you build are being used for things you disagree with before seeing the problem with building those tools then you have already failed.
- direwolf20 8mo agoIt's a wakeup call: there's a lot of money in the mass surveillance industry
- casey2 8mo agoNot really. Surveillance might create an arbitrage opportunity, but insurers hate data they can't trust. The more data the more noise.
- direwolf20 8mo agoPowerful people are paying a lot of money to locate their dispersed enemies. Think of the system in Palestine that tracks wanted terrorists back to their homes at night, so their whole families can be exploded.
- Apreche 8mo agoThis is why you must block all ads always. No exceptions.
- YetAnotherNick 8mo agoIt's not about blocking ads, but blocking tracking. If you connect to internet you are being tracked even though you block known tracking URLs. e.g. Hacker news uses no tracking url but uses Cloudflare which tracks the user across sites for things like bot detection.
- anonym29 8mo agoYou are not powerless. https://0xacab.org/dCF/deCloudflare https://0xacab.org/dCF/deCloudflare
- obsequiosity 8mo agoThe prominent link there not protected by https redirects to the wikipedia page for "uphill battle"...who and why about that redirect is the question being posed perhaps but how alarmist do we want to be?
- michaelsshaw 8mo agoI love your URL!
- Larrikin 8mo agoDo one better, block ads and give them false data on your profile using a solution like Ad Nauseam.
- armadyl 8mo agoAd Nauseam unironically gives ad networks massively more information and data points to track you than if you just straight up blocked the ads.
- usernomdeguerre 8mo ago> ICE says it is attempting to better understand how commercial big data providers and advertising technology firms might directly support investigative activities, while remaining sensitive to “regulatory constraints and privacy expectations.” That's rich and i'll believe it when they respect the written law. To be clear, I fully expect other departments have been investigating these sorts of things in past and present, but ice have conducted themselves differently now and should be treated accordingly.
- tosapple 8mo ago[flagged]
- emodendroket 8mo agoI don't think there is really anything "woke" about wanting to sell products to people who speak Spanish but what do I know. What does this even have to do with the article?
- tosapple 8mo agoFirst it's your nationality, then your language. Next maybe you're church or your music. Data is a liability, it's omnipresent. Permeating.
- michaelsshaw 8mo agoMaximum incoherence. If English is your first language, please seek medical attention immediately.
- emodendroket 8mo agoForeign language ads could be done just based on the content with no behavioral targeting.
- pstuart 8mo ago[flagged]
- tokyobreakfast 8mo agoThis must be a real conundrum for the surveillance capitalist weekend 'resisters' who created this technology in the first place. "Oh, but it's not evil when we use it."
- kybernetyk 8mo ago"It's my job - I just followed orders"
- trhway 8mo agoICE got additional $80B over next 4 years in addition to the standard appropriations resulting in $28B budget for example in this year. That definitely gonna buy a lot of “market research”.
- cluckindan 8mo agoFor comparison, what is the cost of immigration?
- trhway 8mo agoTo whom? To the country losing people or to the country getting people? Like, what is the cost of Elon Musk immigration? And who bears that cost? And who enjoys the benefits of it?
- direwolf20 8mo agoNegative cost. It brings more money.
- stephantul 8mo agoThis has bean a long time coming. This is a stark reminder that you should consider who the future stewards of whatever you are building might be. We built a vast surveillance network under the guise of servings ads and making money, and lost track of how this power could be abused by an entity not aligned with our own values.
- ianbutler 8mo agoDon't lump me in that "we". I did no such thing. I know exactly how it could be abused and have spent 12 years intentionally not working for companies that perpetuate it.
- emodendroket 8mo agoWe are all very impressed, I assure you.
- ianbutler 8mo agoGoing by the upvotes I have generally yes people do seem to think so. It's only weird folks like you and the other guy that seem to have a problem. It's exactly why I don't do more because I really don't want to be associated with people like you folks.
- emodendroket 8mo agoWell one thing we can be sure of is your self regard.
- ianbutler 8mo agoYes because not assenting to the anon rando who makes a snide insulting comment is outside the bounds of normal well regulated self interest. I can't possibly eyeroll any harder at you.
- 8mo ago
- bilekas 8mo ago> Against that backdrop, ICE’s assertion that it is considering privacy expectations appears designed to reassure both policymakers and potential vendors that the agency is aware of the controversy surrounding commercial surveillance data. We can't seriously believe that this agency has any sense of respect for privacy right? They literally are going around thinking they don't need judicial warrants. I mean nobody's going to stop them using the purchased data however they want, but don't lie and say you'll be good with the privacy and care of the data. https://apnews.com/article/ice-arrests-warrants-minneapolis-trump-00d0ab0338e82341fd91b160758aeb2d https://apnews.com/article/ice-arrests-warrants-minneapolis-...
- trhway 8mo ago>They literally are going around thinking they don't need judicial warrants. Noem at the Senate hearing : "Well, habeas corpus is a constitutional right that the president has to be able to remove people from this country, and suspend their right to ..." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46832512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46832512
- drivingmenuts 8mo agoThey’re going from Brownshirt to Gestap to Stasi overnight.
- whatever1 8mo agoIt’s quite obvious that all of these seemingly paranoid about privacy, were not that paranoid after all. For the software builders the conclusion is that we should not store ANY identifiable data.
- dmantis 8mo agoExactly. While trying to degoogling, removing most proprietary software and use sandboxing for everything that's still needed as proprietary, you would often hear that stupid pro-surveillance thesis: "oh, what's wrong in someone trying to show you relevant things in the internet to buy by your interests?". Maybe now some people would think about it. That giving someone's leverage over youself is a ticking bomb until the actually scary people will use it as an advantage. That's humanity 101. Same about non-encrypted emails, cloud AI providers, SMS/real-identity based auth and 2fa, telemetry. The industry is full of trash and has to be revived from VC garbage.
- subscribed 8mo ago"what's wrong? Oh, it literally paints a target on your face that can be shot at if you happen to be brown". Maybe the answers must be blunt and unpleasant.
- hackable_sand 8mo agoHuh?
- michaelsshaw 8mo agoPlease do not stop using our product. Download this proprietary app. You can't (legally) know what it does. Please download and execute it. Please don't google the FSF or EFF. Please.
- anonym29 8mo agoDon't forget - Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon, Oracle, etc are all proud partners of the US intelligence community, which includes DHS and ICE. When the NSA asked these companies to participate in an unconstitutional and unlawful program (as ruled by a federal judge) called PRISM, they didn't fight, they eagerly complied. They kept their compliance secret. They lied about it to citizens, to their users, to their customers, and even to congress. These are fundamentally untrustworthy entities, and there's no reason to believe they've changed and won't comply with secret DHS and ICE requests just like they did with secret NSA requests. Every dollar spent on AWS, Azure, GCP, Oracle Cloud, iPhones, Macbooks, Windows, Office, etc supports the widespread violation of rights committed against the innocent of all political and demographic backgrounds in the name of "national security". Know what doesn't? Open source operating systems, open source software, and self-hosting. Do the right thing, ditch the modern day equivalents of IBM collaborating with the enemies of freedom, human dignity, and human prosperity.
- Symbiote 8mo agoAnd for Europeans or those in other countries: every dollar spent on these companies is supporting their support of Trump; that's against Greenland, NATO etc. For example, Microsoft donated $1M (IIRC) to Trump for Davos. At work we have stopped buying new American services, but there's been very little reduction of existing use. (Yet we did manage a policy stating we won't buy anything from Russia.)
- direwolf20 8mo agoAnd for Europeans: Germany France and UK do the same thing
- andsoitis 8mo agoWhat phone do you use?
- roughly 8mo agoAND YET YOU PARTICIPATE IN SOCIETY
- uwagar 8mo ago[flagged]
- orthecreedence 8mo ago[flagged]
- saubeidl 8mo agoBut that's not what they're doing and you and I both know it. They're murdering political dissidents, they're kidnapping and torturing US citizens, they're terrorizing the streets.
- _DeadFred_ 8mo agoICE is normalizing police hiding behind masks. ICE is normalizing violating people's (hard fought and won in the Supreme Court) 1st amendment right to film the police, so that ICE can do their work in secret. ICE is using biometrics on people who have not broken any law, then saying the federal government will be doing whatever it can in its power to penalize those people now that they have been identified as doing... absolutely nothing illegal but stuff the impedes ICE's ability to operate in secret (among other things a violate of those people's due process rights). We don't do the whole 'secret police' thing in the USA, and we tend to get angry when the Government violates our Constitutional rights.
- jacquesm 8mo agoThe stormtroopers in Star Wars look like they do to be some kind of extreme in anonymous abuse of power. Their squeaky clean white exterior is literally a whitewash of that abuse. That's the one trick that ICE could still pull to complete the transition.
- sham1 8mo agoBut why though? Why shouldn't they be restricted to only using the tools they're legally entitled to? And why shouldn't they be held in account when they act like the SA just because they're "enforcing immigration law"?
- viraptor 8mo agoSince there's quite a few people here working at US companies with access to lots of user data, but they may not have decision making capacity, I just thought I'll link the Simple Sabotage Field Manual, out of context and for no reason at all https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/SimpleSabotage.pdf https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/... If some data is shared with an external entity, it likely needs to be included in a few usual disclaimers, with at least a few meetings to clarify the exact wording and verification of the legal implications with the right dept and double check how it complies with others data protection rules, and don't forget the audit, and I think this contains a mistake so maybe let's investigate this issue first, and ...
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- frumplestlatz 8mo ago[flagged]
- mindslight 8mo agoAnd yet many more of us care about the centuries-old laws that ICE is violating.
- elnatro 8mo agoPlease, enlighten me a non-American, what laws allow shooting and killing civilians on broad light on the USA?
- Paracompact 8mo agoSome people have absolutist takes on these sorts of things. If the stated purpose makes sense ("stop illegal immigration"), they will dismiss tragedies as routine accidents of an imperfect world. If they have no sense of when exceptions become intolerable and course-correction becomes necessary, then by definition, no amount of evidence will change their mind.
- charcircuit 8mo agoI am all for government and private industry working together to keep the country safe and ensure our laws our efficiently enforced.
- mmoustafa 8mo agoWhy do all the discussion posts about ICE’s biometric app get taken down? Although they may invite politicing, they are very relevant to HN. e.g [flagged] Target director's Global Entry was revoked after ICE used app to scan her face [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46833871 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46833871]
- saubeidl 8mo agoDigital brownshirts, using moderation tools as weapon to stifle discussion critical of the regime.
- deleted 8mo ago[deleted]
- somenameforme 8mo ago[flagged]
- donkeybeer 8mo agoWhat is "extremist" about "sabotage"? These are private companies and private individuals, they can choose whether to or not to interact with ICE. Unless its a part of some formal investigation there is nothing criminal or extreme about providing whatever data or response or lack thereof to them. Or do you not believe in freedom of association and free speech?
- somenameforme 8mo agoICE is a law enforcement agency and so intentionally seeking to obstruct an investigation is indeed a crime. Impairing the access to data opens the door to fraud and other charges. And the manual linked goes above and beyond these relatively 'soft' crimes and into things like arson. Betting your life, and career, on these sort of things testament to how radicalized some have become.
- donkeybeer 8mo ago
- kleiba 8mo agoI heard the new division of ICE that is implementing these investigations is called Government Ethics, Security & Transparency Agency for Public Operations, with some kind of acronym I couldn't quite hear.
- trinsic2 8mo agoYou know when you have corrupt organizations calling themselves exactly what they are not, we are in an authoritarian state. And its moving fast.
- globalnode 8mo agoI love this. All these years I've been a privacy enthusiast lunatic, because ofc no-one has anything to hide. Now ad trackers are being potentially weaponised by the govt, and ofc no-one could have foreseen that. This is absolute gold. Will be patiently waiting for recall install's to start sending screenshots to ice of your private documents and comm's.
- tvbusy 8mo agoSomeone please hint ICE that they can get a lot more data from AI companies. Asking what your rights are? Straight to jail.
- trinsic2 8mo agoIn a way Im glad its happening because its going to be a wake up call for many, on the other hand, there is going to be a lot of suffering as a result of this..
- ddxv 8mo agoIf anyone else finds this stuff interesting I've off and on worked on an open source MMP to try and keep the functionality of ad tracking but move the data collection off of centralized hubs like AppsFlyer. I'd love to pick it back up if some people are interested in working together. https://github.com/openattribution https://github.com/openattribution
- yanhangyhy 8mo agoIt is really hard to understand that this is a country that our nation’s media and KOLs have vigorously whitewashed for decades. They say the United States protects private property, that America is free and democratic, and that everyone owns guns, so they can guarantee their own freedom. All of our people should feel ashamed of this—being deceived by the media day after day for decades. Too stupid. Even today, there are still many people who firmly believe it.
- TitaRusell 8mo agoAh yes the famous Constitutional freedom to gun down tyrants. It turns out nobody can agree on who the tyrant is!
- throwfaraway135 8mo agoI'm against this type of surveillance everywhere, but seeing the holier than thou attitude of some of the comments rubs me the wrong way. Doing basically the same for people who are on the Epstein list was OK, but now it's wrong?
- direwolf20 8mo agoUh yeah, it's ok to track and arrest confirmed pedophiles, but not normal people at random
- throwfaraway135 8mo agoThe last time I looked illegal immigration is still illegal. I don't see people protesting en masse to take Clinton, Trump, Gates etc. accountable. Maxwell Ghislaine is alive and well, and they can't get a incrementing confession. But somehow people loose their shit when some MS-13 gang members get arrested.
- _DeadFred_ 8mo agoIllegal immigration enforcement/code is civil, not criminal. If it was criminal, enforcement would require giving suspected offenders actual Article III judge hearings pre-every deporations, not use immigration court, etc. You know, rights. If you lot want to change it to criminal, go for it. But don't lie. People lose their shit when the Constitution is violated. When civil norms are violated in evil ways. When people following the legal process with pending applications before the Government get punished/unfair enforcement against them because grannies in the government system are easier targets than tracking down actual MS-13 gang members. When law enforcement hides their identity and act like a secret police force ABOVE civilian oversite (again against the Supreme Court saying civilians have a right to monitor police actions and against American norms of... not having secret police).
- throwfaraway135 8mo agoMy argument is not about the legality, but selectivity of the outrage. Somehow if it's politically beneficial there are a ton of people outraged, and in other times like the pedophile scandal of the century, with a lot of powerful people in it, no one seams to really care.
- tvbusy 8mo agoAlthough this is quite a dark time, I hope ICE may finally (accidentally) do some good by making it super obvious to people how much online platforms track them.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 8mo agoIn a way, this is a good thing. Hopefully it will draw the attention of other countries and make them realize how important it is to prevent such data hoards, and hopefully once the US has recovered they'll learn from it like the Germans did from the Stasi. Maybe California will even take it as an incentive to make proper privacy laws and impose it on anyone doing business in California in any way.
- direwolf20 8mo agoUnlikely. Other countries will watch and realise how important it is to collect their own data hoards so they can do it too.
- motbus3 8mo agoAuschwiiiiitz Sorry I sneezed
- Ms-J 8mo agoICE will need to hit up Israel for that data. Israeli companies are constantly working on spyware and advertising technologies. Take a look at abominations such as the product Sherlock produced by Insanet: https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/16/insanet_spyware/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/09/16/insanet_spyware/ https://cyberjustice.blog/2024/01/22/sherlock-the-terrifying-israeli-spyware-surpassing-pegasus/ https://cyberjustice.blog/2024/01/22/sherlock-the-terrifying... There are loads of others.
- throw03837 8mo agoIt sounds like you’re just looking for another opportunity to bash a group of people that you hate. Spyware is produced in many countries - although the Israeli ones are very good, because Israelis are very good at what they do.
- Ms-J 8mo agoHere is another example of ICE directly working with Israeli Spyware companies. "What Is ICE Doing With This Israeli Spyware Firm?" https://www.msn.com/en-us/technology/software/what-is-ice-doing-with-this-israeli-spyware-firm/ar-AA1M8j3F https://www.msn.com/en-us/technology/software/what-is-ice-do... The abuse to us normal people has to stop before we really organize and fix things.