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I just spent way too much time reading through this thread looking for a single post more concerned about Venezuela and its people than the poster's own politic
by ofalkaed 9mo ago
I just spent way too much time reading through this thread looking for a single post more concerned about Venezuela and its people than the poster's own politics. I gave up when I noticed I was only a 1/4 of the way through thread, should have started from the bottom.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- woooooo 9mo agoWith some charity, you can assume that people have default concern for Venezuelans. The politics are baffling. There hasn't even been a case made that one could disagree with. Why are we killing Venezuelans and kidnapping their president? If this is for the greater good, where is that argument?
- meowface 9mo agoI am perpetrating the exact wrong the parent poster referenced but: this is why liberalism is such a good principle and political position. It's almost a meta-position, and it provides clarity in circumstances like these.
- toxik 9mo agoLiberalism is a reductionist non-answer to realpolitik. See the sibling comment for what actual reasons there are.
- aglavine 9mo ago1. Most people from Venezuela are happy Maduro is out. A striking difference with people from Ukraine about the invasion. This is the most important thing about this and most people here in comments ignore it. 2. Maduro wasn't even the president. He was someone who took the country illegally with cartel people. 3. Why? Maduro was smuggling drugs in USA. Huge operations. And I guess there must be geopolitical reasons. You want China and Russia be there? And people from Venezuela were the biggest migration wave in the World last decades. You want millions of refugees?
- woooooo 9mo agoFirst off, I'll give you credit for at least trying to justify this, it puts you ahead of the administration that can't even bother. Second off, only #3b above (geopolitics) could possibly count at all. We support dozens of dictators, don't give a darn about their people as long as it's geopolitically useful. So I've been conditioned to assume it's bullshit when someone says "we're doing it for the people there". Third, and to your #3.. it's Venezuela. No disrespect to the people there but it's not exactly the lynchpin of international relations. Is this really worth it? For some crude which is really high in sulfur and not even that important given fracking? Even if I'm a Henry Kissinger psychopath, this still doesn't make sense.
- aglavine 9mo agoI am not saying USA did this for the people. I am saying that a wide majority of Venezolans are totally happy about this and most people here aren't concerned about this at all. They just want to talk about their pet political point. About what are the reasons behind this I (and most people commenting here) can only have educated guess, but I wouldn't discard so easily to weaken cartels as a reason. It is the third (Cuba and Nicaragua the others) Country they got to totally control and the most important and they are powerful and organized enough to keep spreading, and they are supported by China.
- woooooo 9mo agoThanks for engaging in good faith, but you know that China is selling more cars to all of Latin America than us currently, right? Will this engagement deepen Latin American trust and respect for the US or the opposite? China makes it very clear that they do not give a shit about politics and just want to do good business, they're deepening ties that way. What's our plan? Invade random countries and tell them they better not cross us? How long does that work?
- aglavine 9mo agoFull diaclosure: I am from Argentina. I interact daily with exilees from Venezuela. They are coworkers, they drive my Uber. They are totally happy about this. About trust and respect, I don't see any change. Leftist will keep their mantra and Normal people will mind their business. About the 'master plan'. No one commenting here really knows. As I mentioned to avoid criminal cartels controlling three countries and spreading it is not something I would discard. Imagine if they get nukes. Or they can start to systematicallly buy politicians in USA, as they do in Mexico.
- ycombinary 9mo agoBecause it benefits the people in power. Probably in numerous ways.
- pembrook 9mo ago> you can assume that people have default concern for Venezuelans. Let’s be real, the vast majority of Americans couldn’t even place Venezuela on a map. The default state for humans isn’t caring about everything and everyone, nobody has the mental capacity or resources to do that. We only care about something when we are incentivized to by actual self interest, familial bond, or emotional stories that align this 3rd party with our familial instincts via empathy.
- brazukadev 9mo agoI have concerns about my own country because it has a big border with Venezuela.
- csomar 9mo agoI think 2026 will be the year when we move way past that threshold. When conflicts and casualties are rare, each one gets highlighted and garners significant attention. But once you pass a certain point, it becomes just another conflict, just more people suffering. A tragic event affecting millions of people becomes another line item on a list.
- christophilus 9mo agoHow would that differ from any other year in the past 20?
- thrownato 9mo agoMy concern for Venezuelans is precisely what makes me believe "removing Maduro good" even though things are more nuanced and complex than those three words.
- mrwrong 9mo agoI'm not sure many people will believe you saying that
- thrownato 9mo agoFortunately, their disbelief does not make it not true.
- mrwrong 9mo agoand the corollary is of course that saying something doesn't make it true
- stevenhuang 9mo agoYou have the Internet at your disposal. You can see for yourself the opinions of Venezuelans. We'll wait.
- aglavine 9mo agoA wide majority of Venezolans are happy with having Maduro out.
- xkbarkar 9mo agoAgreed
- mihaaly 9mo agoCare for others is an increasingly condemnable trait in public opinion nowadays, a social suicide, ironically. As history taught us it will not end well.
- baka367 9mo agoThere is none to be found. The people need to play the zombie apocalypse - arm and survive. The main players: - current government - local army - invading army - chinese and Russian proxies - multiple smaller groups - opposition And probably more will play the power struggle in the foreseeable future. Unaffiliated people will somehow need to find a way to navigate this mess
- 303uru 9mo agoWhy does it matter? Illegal actions are illegal. On the 1 in a million chance this results in things getting better for Venezuela the outcome does not forgive the action.
- xtracto 9mo agoI'm more concerned for Greenland and Canada than for Venezuela.
- tejohnso 9mo agoI believe regarding greenland the statement "we have to have it" was made by the US dictatorial leadership. Rather chilling.
- Capricorn2481 9mo agoI think you're greatly exaggerating here. I'm seeing pretty nuanced discussion from everyone. It's a political event between two countries. So people are discussing two things: What it means for Venezuela that Maduro is gone, and what it means that Trump can completely sidestep Congress to start a war. Both seem relevant. But you're trying to reduce it to something narrower. Most of us are aware that feelings in the first 24 hours of something like this are completely irrelevant. Time will tell if this is a net positive.
- protastus 9mo agoAmericans are too culturally isolated from other countries and cultures to build empathy. I think Americans have main character syndrome at scale, and these comments are obvious when read through this lens. This may surprise folks who don't live in the U.S., because Americans describe their country as a nation of immigrants and say things like "I'm Italian" and "I'm Irish" when describing their identity. Yet these same folks haven't set foot in Italy or Ireland, don't speak the language or have awareness of present-day concerns from those countries.
- themafia 9mo ago[flagged]
- Forgeties79 9mo agoYou’re not doing our image any favors.
- sapphicsnail 9mo agoI think it's worse than that. There's a general unwillingness to engage with uncomfortable things. Can't really build empathy if there isn't space to talk about problems.
- ineedaj0b 9mo agothe entire readership of this website is clueless, it’s an echo chamber. Unless you write a thoroughly detailed contra comment you get downvoted. If you say Elon is good you get downvoted. I do not want to source my comments, I work a job! Maybe Elon is sometimes good and sometimes bad. Maybe I don’t want to drop how I know something because my employer would be very mad. You can no longer get the full picture because all the guys with alpha (investing term) left and post on Twitter/X now. All rando accounts without their faces. Anything interesting for AI is on there now and you can chat with the actual researchers too, you don’t need to bump into them at a shoes off party after work. There’s a lot of very uncomfortable discussion on Twitter/X if you can stomach it, you’ll end up with a much clearer picture of the world. There’s a lot of dumb stuff on there too! You have to sift through it. HN hit its Eternal September. There’s still some really great technical stuff you can find on here though. I don’t know how long the decline has been but it doesn’t seem to be getting better.
- ratamacue 9mo agoMy political reaction comes from the following chain of thought: * My country just did something I think is wrong. * My country is led by people elected by a process that I generally trust but believe is under stress. * The process or the people have failed and I want to stop this from happening by fixing the process so the people are replaced. And, now I am stuck on how to do this. There a other actions I can take to help the people of Venezuela, but from a civics perspective, I believe it is my responsibility to partake in a discussion about the systemic failure that lead to this. I think it is common for Americans to do this because we have a history of at least trying to fix our government because we usually believe we can.
- doug_durham 9mo agoWrite to your representative and senators. It may seem impotent, but it what you as an American can to today. If you are concerned it is your duty to take the 10 minutes to write. If you do not then you are condoning these actions and the erosion of your rights.
- baby 9mo agoHow is that helpful? You either have a blue representative that already agrees with you, or a corrupt red one that most likely don't really listen to their constituents, or at least not the one that send mail.
- doug_durham 9mo agoBecause that is how democracy works. I you don't exercise it will go away. Also there are Republican representatives who are on the record as being against the executive overreach. Getting feedback from their constituents will give them the support to push back. It really does work.
- ImPostingOnHN 9mo agoI believe you may have the causality backwards: ignoring constituents is probably not how democracy works, yet that is what we see today, therefore what we see today must not be democratic. How can they get away with ignoring their constituents? Well: gerrymandering has made it so that representatives can select their constituents (and their opponent's constituents, or lack thereof). They will remain in their post indefinitely, regardless of this carefully-selected minority of constituents wants, so long as they continue to bend the knee and kiss the ring for you-know-who. If an existing politician already lacks both the moral compunction and a self-interested political survial motivation to say a thing is bad, then a letter from a minority-opinioned constituent of theirs won't change their mind.
- shimman 9mo agoUnless the said comments you want to read don't discuss how US imperialism has been benefitting corporations for over a 100 years, I wouldn't expect much honest introspection.
- FridayoLeary 9mo agoIt's a great point. Maduro won't be missed by anyone. But the top posted comment here perfectly captured my feelings. There's the wider picture to look at. I personally would love it if America did that to Iran, Russia, Cuba etc, but i feel there should be more of a process and i'm allowed to be suspicious of the motives. If Venezuela actually becomes a functioning country again and drugs, gangs and illegal immigrants stop flooding America then i personally would applaud the operation. Still, you really shouldn't just kidnap other countries presidents just like that as a general rule.
- throw-12-16 9mo agoIts 2026, why does this surprise you?
- dang 9mo agoI hear you, but it takes time for these threads to play out. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46479679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46479679 is the fourth-highest subthread now, and (not sure whether they meet your criteria but) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46476455 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46476455 is the second-highest, and yours is the fifth-highest but would be higher except that we downweight the meta aspect [1]. One thing to keep in mind is that reflexive comments always show up first, because they're the quickest responses to feel, to write, and to post. Reflective and thoughtful comments—such as ones that express concern for people, as you were wanting to see—are slower to arise, take more time to write, and therefore are slower to show up in threads [2]. [1] not because of the content but because meta always draws excessive attention - see https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20meta%20crack&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... and https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=%22contrarian%20dynamic%22&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... for explanations if curious [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=reflective%20reflex%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...
- ofalkaed 9mo agoReading a few hundred mostly low effort reactionary posts of people using the events in Venezuela as validation for their politics had a strong effect on my mood. These sorts of events are tricky on HN, all the user can do is flag flag flag and hope you or others like you (mods) will sort it all out and give the front page its one thread on the topic, if we don't the front page will be consumed and the community will die. But we can't always rely on mods, you have lives and have to rely on certain pragmatism, you have to wait and see how the community reacts/events unfold to see if something should get a thread on the front page or risk the consequences. And I think you did weigh in but vouching on a single thread may have won out against the flagging, as it should. So I gave the thread a chance and started reading. One of the only changes I think HN could use, is mods being able to make a post in a thread that can not be voted on or replied to but will remain top post and simply stating that the community has ruled and this submission will live but every related submission will be killed as a dupe until the thread dies. But that would be very difficult to do without being accused of having an agenda by one side or the other. Part of the reason I avoid becoming too much a part of sites like HN is because I fear being asked to be more than a user. I do not envy your position but I appreciate all you do.
- johnnyanmac 9mo agoTo be blunt, I simply don't have much more than the default respect for Venezuela as a country and fellow human beings. I have no special sentiment to provide in that regard. This is destructive, I hate that more innocent lives are lost over this, etc. I can't speak intimately to its culture, norms, attitudes, nor economics. So I won't talk on ignorant grounds. Meanwhile, I hold disdain for my country's actions and have some minimal pull to at least protest and complain to my reps about it. So the focus of my discussion will be around those actions.
- The_President 9mo agoCrazy amount of comments - We need a tool that maps narrative angles and reply/conversational interation mapping. Ratio of comments herein to other stories is wild. Lot of lurkers on this site that seem very informed when things like this come up.
- N_Lens 9mo agoAstroturfing and opinion manipulation.