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The realities of being a pop star
- carabiner 10mo agoFascinating. Also impressive rawness, and it doesn't even seem like she passed it thru Chatgpt. It's insane that my first inclination is to detect those telltale signs in a blog post, and here I found none.
- varjag 10mo agoYeah there's a 'delve' there but it almost feels it was put in as a taunt.
- jspash 10mo agoI never quite understood this “tell”. I use the word all the time. As do a lot of the people I have know. Written and spoken. Is this maybe an American thing? Ie it’s just not used much there?
- levocardia 10mo ago"Delve" was one of the words whose usage spiked most dramatically after the launch of ChatGPT, relative to its usage pre-ChatGPT.
- renewiltord 10mo agoI used to wear a mask when I was sick but still had to be around people. It was just normal life. Then after COVID it became a political statement. Now if I did that people would assume I’m trying to say something. I’ve always liked the American flag. I have a little pin on my jacket. People assume something by its presence. That’s life. Delve is now an LLMism.
- nemothekid 10mo agoCharli is a half-british half-Indian. It could be legitimate
- derangedHorse 10mo agoDelve was a word I used before generative AI and it's a word I'll continue using into the future. I will not let people's perceived use of AI stop me from writing what I want to write.
- some_guy_nobel 10mo ago[flagged]
- beepbooptheory 10mo agoWhat do think could of been added or taken away or changed to make it better? What would a "good" version of this piece of writing be like for you? Is it a matter of voice, pacing, structure? You seem to imply maybe a lack of juicy details I guess?
- quamserena 10mo agoIt clearly hasn’t been passed through a PR team or ChatGPT; if it had been you’d expect them to fix the grammatical errors. It’s an honest stream-of-consciousness blog post almost certainly written by Charli XCX herself and herself alone about her thoughts, and it is honest and unapologetic. What word more describes this than “raw”?
- paulcole 10mo agoWouldn’t the best PR team be the one who you couldn’t tell touched it? The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist and all…
- mrdependable 10mo agoI found it pretty hollow too, but I probably went into it with the wrong expectations. The title of the article sounds promising, and the writing is decent enough that I believe something interesting could be said, but in the end it felt less introspective and more self-indulgent. I'm sure she could write the essay I was hoping to read, but it turned out to be the essay I should have expected instead.
- strken 10mo agoWeirdly enough, I went in thinking it would be a deep-dive into the actual process and job of being a pop star. Presumably she's not just being carted between parties, gigs, and the recording studio - how does she spend her time? Who manages her schedule? When she's putting out an album, is she the one driving the process? How does she (or her manager, label, PA, etc.) find graphic designers, producers, videographers for the ad campaign, contractors to arrange a tour, and PR firms to arrange talk show interviews and press hype? Where does the money go - does she have a family office, does she have an emergency trust fund, how does she protect against fraud and embezzlement, and is she even thinking about that stuff? How does the job of being a pop star work? The essay is exactly what I should have expected, and that's fine. Even if someone is writing in an unfiltered way it doesn't mean their stream of consciousness will contain the overly detailed trivia I'm interested in.
- plasticeagle 10mo agoI feel absolutely confident that Charlie XCX would never use generative AI in any form. And this sentence is lovely; "...let some random person you’ve just met in the bathroom try on the necklace around your neck that is equivalent to the heart of the ocean" Like you I always look for signs of AI in writing I see online, and it's incredibly disappointing how often it's there. There's no personality, no charm, nothing unique - just the same flawless grammar and overuse of cliche. This piece is filled with the quality of humanity that we once took for granted. This is what we are losing.
- binary132 10mo agonot all of us, just most of us, apparently
- gdulli 10mo agoShe may be of the final generation of real creatives who aren't at a disadvantage relative to those who take the path of least resistance and put out slop. The current/next generation of the audience may look at manually created art as a curiosity, the way most of us think about listening to vinyl.
- bigiain 10mo agoI'm less sure and perhaps more optimistic. Spottily has clearly identified a paying market for "incidental" music, something that people will play just to fill in as background noise while not caring about it. But it relies on a huge number of people who're prepared to pay a vanishingly small amount for it, or even to put up with ads to have it play for free. But that's not "the audience" that all "creatives" are seeking or writing for. At least some of them are writing for the sort of person who actively seeks out and values "manually created art". People like me. People who'll not only go and listen to an artist's back catalog after enjoying hearing a previously unknown artist, and who'll buy the music that they love (including buying the vinyl even though they have access via streaming and paid downloads as well). People who'll keep an eye open for tours, and who'll buy concert tickets and encourage friends to do so as well. That will probably never generate Taylor Swift or Rhiannon style careers or income, but I think "1000 true fans" is a valid today as it was almost 20 years ago when it was written: https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/ https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/ Anybody "putting out slop" using GenAI in their art is fooling themselves if they think it's ever going to be possible to become truly rich and famous that way. If there's money to be made from AI slop music, it'll be raked in by streaming services and AI companies who can produce a million tracks a day and A/B test then on streaming services with a billion listeners. And _maybe_ there'll be a very few specialist AI music production companies, someone with a finely tuned AI and extremely skilled prompters - and with enough skill and talent to recognise when the AI output is going to be popular enough to be worth releasing. Someone like Stock Aitken Waterman used to be back in the 80s. But those production companies are directly in the targets of enshittification by the AI companies (the same as every company in any industry that becomes dependent on someone else's GenAI). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_Aitken_Waterman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_Aitken_Waterman
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- stavros 10mo agoNobody who likes writing would use ChatGPT to write. First of all, it takes the fun out of it, and second of all, its writing is clinical and corporate. I'm writing to express myself, how would I accomplish that through someone else? I don't think trying to detect ChatGPT is a good use of time. Either the writing is good, or it's not.
- carabiner 10mo agoIt doesn't take any more time than reading it. Chatgpt writing is dogshit and if I see signs then I know probably the whole work is polluted.
- pinkmuffinere 10mo ago> and it doesn't even seem like she passed it thru Chatgpt Oh my god, can we stop with the obsession of whether something has been chatgpt-ified? I like to know when things are true, or when they are good. I couldn't care less if they are chatgpt-y.
- jdlshore 10mo agoI think people disliked being fooled. Something seems good and true, and then you realize it was ChatGPT, and you realize it’s all fake. The connection you were forming with the author is gone (because they phoned it in) and the sense of truth is gone (because who knows what was hallucinated). People like authenticity. ChatGPT ain’t it.
- foxglacier 10mo agoAnother thing that isn't authentic is anything said in public by a celebrity - or worse - the feelings they show in their work. Yet people still lap it up. I think people enjoy being fooled into believing something is authentic in some cases but not others. Not sure what distinguishes them though.
- cypherpunks01 10mo ago> "A couple of weeks ago Yung Lean came for dinner at my house .. He is probably one of the wisest people I know." Two sentences I would've not predicted in close proximity to one another! Hah, love it. Guess he's been through a lot over the years.
- polalavik 10mo agoyung leans interview on nyt popcast is good https://youtu.be/p1FF3r6raSc?si=Yq4kxIuQCUkW8IBr https://youtu.be/p1FF3r6raSc?si=Yq4kxIuQCUkW8IBr also his doc on Noisey years back was really good https://youtu.be/6wgFliyJ4Bk?si=B1DdlOQZH9NBsve1 https://youtu.be/6wgFliyJ4Bk?si=B1DdlOQZH9NBsve1
- bahmboo 10mo agoIt is a great interview, thanks. Never heard of him, he's a smart young person. Goes hand in hand with Charlie's post. Hey it's Saturday night we can talk about culture stuff, right? Edit to add: young prodigies in artistic pursuits have similar choices as young tech prodigies.
- BriggyDwiggs42 10mo ago>young prodigies in artistic pursuits have similar choices as young tech prodigies. How so?
- bahmboo 10mo agoValues - I'm not judging. Do you want to be the best rapper in Sweden? Do you want to be the best engineer at EA? 2 million a year to work at Palantir? Sign with a label and get 2 million a year to live in LA and have your music in Pepsi ads? Start an open source greenfield passion project that has only your vision as the runway? Work your own musical genre even if your audience isn't there yet? As a talented young person (or at least you believe in yourself!) it's early in your life/career where you can sculpt and morph yourself while you are still formable.
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- decasia 10mo agoI thought this was a really good piece of writing. It’s rare to do something like this because the job discourages it by putting PR filters on everything you say. My uncle was a pretty big pop star in the 1960s. His group at one point had a big fanzine, they were household names across the country, over time they had stalkers and weird fans and all that, made movies and albums, had big parties and knew other famous people, pretty much all those things that the OP writes about (circa 50 years later, some of it has changed but not that much). He could be charismatic and surprisingly eloquent and I could picture him writing a piece like this, if the mood had struck. He also lost pretty much all the money through mismanagement (several times over), eventually moved out of LA, had a tumultuous family life with numerous spouses and wasn’t around much for his kids, and after his 40s was trapped in a sad cycle of reunion tours because the band still needed the money. The tours still had some level of excitement and crowd enthusiasm, even pretty late in life and I guess he always loved the stage, the performing, all that. But in the end, I kinda felt it seemed like a lonely existence. Hard to form really deep connections when you’re always traveling and often away in your head.
- ilamont 10mo ago> after his 40s was trapped in a sad cycle of reunion tours because the band still needed the money. Celebrity memoirs are often written for the same reasons, or to promote other ventures. For instance Peter Wolf seemingly reluctantly shared vignettes about Dylan, The Stones, Faye Dunaway, and rock 'n' roll life in the 1970s to promote his newer stuff: "I was putting out solo CDs. Not to sound self-congratulatory, but I thought each one got better and better— but they weren’t finding an audience. I thought a book might encourage people to check out the other stuff. So basically, the intent of the book was to find a wider audience." https://www.boston.com/culture/books/2025/03/10/peter-wolf-memoir-waiting-on-the-moon/?p1=hp_secondary https://www.boston.com/culture/books/2025/03/10/peter-wolf-m...
- Insanity 10mo agoIt was interesting and a fun read, but not a “good piece of writing” in my opinion. Apart from some spelling mistakes, the sentences droned on and it read more like a semi-coherent rant than a thoughtful piece on “being a pop star”.
- andrewinardeer 10mo agoI couldn't think of anything worse than to be known world wide. You couldn't go out in public without being hounded or swamped by people. The parasocial relationships people form with you can put your life in danger. Even worse is being a politician - particularly at a global leader level. Surely there has been an average Joe who has shithoused their way into being a leader of a significant country. Once you do that, with politics being as toxic as it is, for the rest of your days you can be a marked person.
- dfxm12 10mo agoWhat does shithoused mean in this context? All the meanings I know for it don't fit, not even metaphorically...
- andrewinardeer 10mo agoSorry for the bogan nomenclature. I mean "fell upwards". Gave it a shot for shits and giggles and made it.
- windowshopping 10mo agoI didn't know what bogan meant either so I looked it up and I have to infer we are speaking with an Australian or New Zealander, hence the small vocabulary differential in our English.
- bombcar 10mo agoAussies speak something that sounds vaguely like English but it ain’t.
- bigiain 10mo agoYou know how it's said that eskimos have 50 words for "snow"? Aussies have 50 meanings for the word "cunt". It can simultaneously be both the worst and the best thing you can call someone. And aussies know exactly which meaning is intended from context.
- wewewedxfgdf 10mo agoI'd hate to be a pop star. The more anonymity the better.
- jppope 10mo agoCourtney Love wrote a fabulous article explaining the realities of a million-dollar album (2000 - https://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/ https://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/) and it explains so much of whats actually going on that the public doesn't fully comprehend. Its a great read if you've never read it. The realities are similar to what we are reading in this article. Most of what gets talked about is gross numbers not net. Most of the benefits of the job, are in the journey not the destination - if you're even into that stuff... i.e. having your music impact lives. I wish sooooo much that people could read these things so when I go to a dinner party or random event, some GenPop person knew that JK Rowling makes billions of dollars but your average published writer loses money publishing a book. Your average NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL athletes are broke 5 years after they are out of the league. Fame, is mostly a curse. Good on charli xcx for writing this and for writing period.
- SL61 10mo agoIt's interesting to observe that fame (and the money that usually comes with it) seems to follow something like a log scale. People usually don't become gradually more famous in a linear way. They're more likely to spend a few years with 50k listeners and then get a big hit and get 1 million listeners overnight, then the next big jump is 20 million, and so on. It's possible to be semi-famous and still able to go to the grocery store and pump your own gas without getting recognized. The local sports radio guys don't need an entourage, even if they do get recognized. But as a rising artist, you hit a point where you can no longer go out in public at all. It's really shocking when it happens because it's so abrupt. My dad's famous friend was a regular at a local restaurant and wasn't bothered for a long time, even when his name/face started showing up in the media. Then one day another customer shouted his name and he got mobbed by fans, and he realized he couldn't go out to eat like a normal person anymore. I think Charli crossed that line with the success of her album Brat last year. It's the point where you start to ask yourself if it's really worth it, and maybe consider going full recluse like Thomas Pynchon. (That's not even getting into the online stan culture stuff that Charli talks about in the article.)
- trogdor 10mo ago> I think Charli crossed that line with the success of her album Brat last year. In Hollywood, that line gets crossed at a surprisingly low level. I am friends with Josh Sussman, who played Jacob Ben Israel on Glee. I occasionally visit him in LA, and we can’t go anywhere in public without getting constantly stopped by people wanting photos. It’s exhausting.
- ivraatiems 10mo agoThere is a weird assumption people make that somebody as successful as Charli XCX isn't smart because her persona is "I like cocaine and partying," and then are surprised when she can express herself like this. Like she says: "Another thing about being a pop star is that you cannot avoid the fact that some people are simply determined to prove that you are stupid." Making music at any professional level is extremely hard work. Touring and dancing and hosting shows is even harder. It requires a substantial intellectual capacity and stamina to achieve. You either have these things yourself, or you are propped up entirely by others who have them and are invested in you for money's sake. Given Charli XCX's background, it's not actually surprising that she, in fact, has all the talent, skill, and intellect required to do this stuff herself. Editing to add: Another place to look to learn that people with this skillset often have very very deep inner lives is Dua Lipa's book club podcast (https://www.service95.com/tag/book-club https://www.service95.com/tag/book-club). As someone who used to run these kinds of in-depth interviews, I can say, she is damn good at it.
- astrange 10mo ago> There is a weird assumption people make that somebody as successful as Charli XCX isn't smart because her persona is "I like cocaine and partying," Considering cocaine is both illegal and has an obviously unethical supply chain, you'd think someone would try, you know, prosecuting her or something.
- ggm 10mo agoIf she's prosecuted before a long queue of others, we'd be entitled to suggest the law is not being applied equally. Start a little higher up the food chain with the politicians.
- astrange 10mo agoThe politicians aren't announcing they use cocaine in public, are they? Even if some of them do sniff a lot on camera.
- IshKebab 10mo ago> I find that this is often where the stupidity narrative can be born. I’ve always wondered why someone else’s success triggers such rage and anger in certain people and I think it probably all boils down to the fact that the patriarchal society we unfortunately live in has successfully brainwashed us all. We are still trained to hate women, to hate ourselves and to be angry at women if they step out of the neat little box that public perception has put them in. I think subconsciously people still believe there is only room for women to be a certain type of way and once they claim to be one way they better not DARE grow or change or morph into something else. Nah it's nothing to do with women, it's simple jealousy. Everyone wants to be successful. If they can dismiss successful people as lucky or whatever (tbf some are) then it makes them feel better about their own failure to be successful (they are just as good; they just weren't as lucky). A natural human tendency. Look at all the people saying Elon Musk isn't really an engineer. Yeah right, he definitely is heavily involved in the high level technical decisions. Yes he's an arsehole and moderately racist and probably quite lucky too but he is good at his job.
- TechnicolorByte 10mo agoHow’s that 2016 promise of LA to NYC autonomous driving goal going for Musk? Or his Cybercab venture going? And the decision to not use LIDAR in his vehicles? Or the Cybertruck’s dismal engineering and sales?
- astrange 10mo agoMusk really is that good and nobody else is capable of building factories in the US, but the skills are in raising money and defeating NIMBYism. Raising money (and starting startups) involves a lot of lies and delusions which are not always adaptive skills. He fell off when he lost his egirl and became a drug addict.
- WalterBright 10mo agoElon promises 10 revolutionary things and only delivers 9. Sheesh, what a loser!
- bitwize 10mo agoThe Dire Straits song "Money for Nothing" is one of my all-time favorite 80s hits. Mark Knopfler pretty much composed the lyrics simply by transcribing some remarks he overheard from blue-collar servicemen working at an appliance store, and adjusting them a bit to make them scan and rhyme. The deliberate irony is that contrary to the servicemen's belief that rock stars live a life of ease, the life of a musician can be grueling. You have to spend years mastering your instrument(s) and then win the record-deal lottery; after which your time is pretty much divided between being in the studio recording, on tour performing and promoting the album on a round-the-clock schedule, and with the rise of MTV shooting music videos. It's no wonder rock stars are prone to hedonism; they probably think they have to drink deeply of relaxation and pleasure while they have the opportunity, in order to reset and be ready for the next album, the next concert tour, the next press event...
- pan69 10mo agoIn similar vein, the U2 song Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me has similar self-deprecating lyrics on what it is to be a pop star. They want you to be Jesus They'll go down on one knee But they'll want their money back If you're alive at thirty-three https://genius.com/U2-hold-me-thrill-me-kiss-me-kill-me-lyrics https://genius.com/U2-hold-me-thrill-me-kiss-me-kill-me-lyri...
- pardon_me 10mo agoThey try to sell your body and your soul It's the price you pay for rock 'n roll And no-one understands it how you feel For it's so unreal, oh, it's so unreal Baby, don't you cry for me It's an illusion, just an illusion BZN - Just An Illusion https://genius.com/Bzn-just-an-illusion-lyrics https://genius.com/Bzn-just-an-illusion-lyrics
- ggm 10mo agoThe James Blunt documentary has similar qualities of the insanity and the banality of fame. "You look just like..." type commentary, from ordinary encounters. Both reviled and admired, he managed to leverage haters on Twitter into an image of self deprecating humour. Combined with some PTSD from his army career and stage effects. Ed Sheeran gives off what i suspect is a very carefully managed vibe of ordinariness. If it's not curated it's very well done.
- gishh 10mo ago> I’ve always wondered why someone else’s success triggers such rage and anger in certain people and I think it probably all boils down to the fact that the patriarchal society we unfortunately live in has successfully brainwashed us all. We are still trained to hate women, to hate ourselves and to be angry at women if they step out of the neat little box that public perception has put them in. I assume roughly half of pop stars are male, give or take. Or, given the quote and speaking in generalities, at least roughly half of successful people are male. I’m sure we can all name wildly successful males who garner the same hate she is speaking about. I don’t think it’s patriarchy, I think it’s simply jealously, insecurity, and judgmental feelings all wrapped up into a big ball of hate. Or it’s the patriarchy. Just doesn’t make sense for the point trying to be made.
- bigiain 10mo ago> I assume roughly half of pop stars are male, give or take. I'd question that assumption. My gut feel says there are way more women pop stars? I did a very quick bit of research, and maybe we're both wrong. https://wealthygorilla.com/richest-singers-world/ https://wealthygorilla.com/richest-singers-world/ Splits up as 31 men to 19 women on their top 50 richest singers list. So closer to 2/3rds men that half. I did realise while counting, that my gut feel wouldn't have included a lot of those men as "pop stars", in retrospect probably because my interpretation of "pop music" leans heavily towards women, and rightly or wrongly I'd label at least half the men on that list as "rock stars" instead (and very few of the women).
- rkomorn 10mo agoMaybe it's related to the decades during which I grew up, but I'd say "rock star" had a better connotation than "pop star" when I was growing up. "Pop stars" contained a lot of boy/girl bands or solo artists who "don't write their own songs/music" (among many other accusations of not being "real musicians").
- rubenvanwyk 10mo agoI also don’t understand why people don’t ascribe some inherently bad behaviours to human nature. Everyone knows people aren’t perfect, but somehow we have to blame some institutions or perceived societal phenomena instead of just acknowledging that we are, in our very nature, flawed - but capable of great change, and should just all endeavour to “be better”.
- sfblah 10mo agoI had to go on Youtube to listen to some of the music mentioned here, as I'm pretty out of the loop on it. Given what I heard I honestly think we're basically at the point where AI can generate equivalent or even better music. It's just very simple and doesn't feel particularly innovative or noteworthy. Point being, I think it's likely this person is one of the last pop stars. Actually, as I'm writing this, I realized that probably the music being produced by this person is actually done by a computer. So, maybe she's in the first wave of totally artificial pop stars.
- nprateem 10mo agoMaybe you could tell all her fans how stupid they are and shouldn't enjoy her music. Why not save them from themselves with some of your approved recommendations?
- sfblah 10mo agoWith pleasure!
- empressplay 10mo agoThe novelty in pop music is not usually in the harmony. The novelty is usually in the presentation. The idea is that you hook the audience with familiarity (nostalgia) and then keep them with a novel expression of it. In recent years, this means really strange synth patches and vocal effects.
- jameslk 10mo agoIt makes me sad to think you have formed this opinion on her more than decade long career that spans a variety of genres and many collaborations based on a few brat songs you may have listened to
- sfblah 10mo agoI'm open to changing my view! Please give some recommendations.
- coro_1 10mo agoThis was great stream of consciousness. Sub-stack is more appealing now.
- WalterBright 10mo ago> especially when your old friends mock and ridicule you for caring about something absolutely pointless. My dad flew 32 missions over Germany. He watched men die. 80% of his cohort did not return. He expected to die and made his peace with it. He told me once that when he returned home, he was struck by the trivial problems people had and obsessed over. After all, they weren't flying a mission tomorrow with near certain death. He said whenever he felt down, he'd recall the men that never had a chance to grow old, and his problems would melt away.
- WalterBright 10mo agoI sometimes wonder what my widower grandfather thought, sending his only son off to war.
- BrandoElFollito 10mo agoI wondered about that as well. I would do whatever I can to avoid my sons going to war because these wars are fought for interests that are completely remote. I can imagine resistance when you are invaded (and still, you need to weigh your real chances). Sending someone to Africa from France to protect some interests there, well not that much.
- WalterBright 10mo agoJapan attacked Pearl Harbor, Hitler declared war on the US, Hitler was allied with Japan, and Hitler was sinking American shipping.
- BrandoElFollito 10mo agoYes, in the case of WW2 this is a "defense" war. But the next ones were not. My comment was general - I am French and we send our army mostly to Africa to secure our sources of various minerals. Or to Asia in the 70s. We did not go to Iraq but that would have been another fight for oil (this time). Western countries have not been attacked since WW2, but it also have been busy (same as the US)
- joshcsimmons 10mo agoIt is correct to be skeptical of people who parlay their fame in one domain into another. The most powerful man in the US right now is just a reality TV star. At best, it allows "celebrities" to hop into any domain of their choosing without any real qualification or having earned their way in that particular field.
- bdangubic 10mo agowhat qualification does one need to be US President (besides being born in the US and of certain age)? celebrities certainly won’t be doing any open heart surgeries anytime soon :) so there are things you absolutely do not need any qualitications for (Actor/Actress, US President) and there those you do (Surgeon, Attorney…)
- squigz 10mo agoThe idea that you shouldn't need qualifications - which, might I add, is not the same as certification - to be the President of The United States is a wild one.
- bdangubic 10mo agoI am not sure if there is a single country now (or there was one ever) where there were any requirements/qualifications needed to be the President
- SenHeng 10mo agohttps://www.eld.gov.sg/candidate_presidential_qualify.html https://www.eld.gov.sg/candidate_presidential_qualify.html > Public sector service requirement > The public sector service requirement is that the person has: held office for three or more years as Minister, Chief Justice, Speaker of Parliament, Attorney-General, Chairman of the Public Service Commission, Auditor-General, Accountant-General or Permanent Secretary; > Private sector service requirement > The private sector service requirement is that the person has: served as the chief executive of a company and the following four criteria are met:
- mediumsmart 10mo agoThe reality of being labeled a consumer by a Popstar is unreal
- sandspar 10mo agoHer essay makes it seem like she's mostly powerless. She gets shuttled around from place to place because other people make money by using her as a prop. She gets paid lots of money and is given freedom, in a sense, but it's freedom to gorge herself on basic pleasures like attention, drugs, and wealth. Overall it seems like a childlike existence.
- dwroberts 10mo agoThis is what makes the ‘successful’ parts slightly off to me. I get that she is successful, she is well known, presumably made good money etc - but in some sense it’s the machinery behind her that has been successful in using her. Everything she is, is just a brand created and owned by someone else.
- sandspar 10mo agoReplying to my own comment several days later: I regret writing this. I know nothing about this woman's life yet I attempt to rip her to pieces, and I wrote the comment mostly to show off.
- anal_reactor 10mo ago> You’re in transit, you’re going somewhere but the journey itself takes up the majority of the experience. That's how most people function. People work their asses off so that they can do something fun two weeks a year. > Another thing about being a pop star is that you cannot avoid the fact that some people are simply determined to prove that you are stupid. Because even though people clearly have different levels of intelligence, saying this out loud goes against values of the society, and keeping the society together is more important than being truthful. This is one of those things that "normies" understand subconsciously but never articulate, while autists rarely understand because it's never articulated. > Another thing about being a pop star is that you cannot avoid the fact that some people are simply determined to prove that you are stupid Pop star gets successful by playing a role of a stupid person. Some people think she's actually stupid. It doesn't take a degree in social sciences to connect the dots. > I’ve always wondered why someone else’s success triggers such rage and anger Jealously has existed since the dawn of time. Various cultures have sayings along "nothing makes one happier than someone else's misery". > the patriarchal society I've noticed that many people who see themselves as oppressed get tunnel vision and attribute lots of unrelated problems to said oppression. This is one of those subconscious biases that exist because having them gives you massive social advantage because you can get all the pity you want. > Over recent years some people seem to have developed a connection between fame and moral responsibility that I’ve never really understood. Rich and famous people have power. They're expected to use that power for good regardless of how they got the power.
- decimalenough 10mo agoNo, she means literally being in transit from point A to point B. On a tour bus, in an airline lounge, on a plane, in a cab, in some random hotel, backstage waiting to go on stage. I did 100% business travel for a couple of a years, and it was pretty grueling despite mostly being stationed with the same customer for a couple of months. At the Charli XCX level, you may be doing 4 gigs in 4 different cities in 3 days: https://toursetlist.com/charli-xcx-tour-setlist/ https://toursetlist.com/charli-xcx-tour-setlist/
- MomsAVoxell 10mo agoI’ve known many pop stars (have worked in the pro audio industry for decades) and one thing that is common among them is that they are very interesting people. Very rarely interested - mostly involved in being interesting. I think there has to be a balance, personally. If you spend your life trying to be as interesting as possible, it gets very spiritually depleting. If you do take an honest interest in others, though, the pop-star factor gets multiplied. So many times I’ve seen fans congregate around a star, struck as they were, to be regaled with that stars new interesting thing, or entertaining acts. Sure, they walk away with the experience. But, whenever the pop star turns it around and takes more of an interest in the other person - wow! The fan factor multiplies significantly. (Incidentally, this works not just for pop stars but also anyone at all, actually.) That said, I don’t think being a pop star is a particularly healthy activity. The exhaustion levels once the green room door is closed are pretty obvious, and the means of healing from weeks, or months and months of continuous, daily, “being interesting” takes a huge toll. The pop stars I’ve known, intimately, who have a strong family that just treat them like regular people, are usually the healthiest. The few stars I consider friends, as in we could call each other just to hang out and chat now and then, are really the ones who find this balance early in their life. I also have a somewhat famous actress in my family, and she is an extremely tiring person to be around, even though she has millions of adoring fans, because there is a continual vibe of being as interesting as possible, no matter the circumstances, and this is exhausting for those of us who live with her on a regular basis. Inter-family gossip always takes note of her attention levels.
- NaomiLehman 10mo agoI would guess that the balance is difficult for regular people and impossible for famous people.
- MomsAVoxell 10mo agoIt's not impossible - it just requires attention and is a part of the responsibilities of the job, in my opinion. But even regular people try too hard to be interesting sometimes. Attention is a currency in our culture; its too often traded poorly.
- dbspin 10mo agoWhile this is a fascinating perspective, I find this analysis of the source of hate online to be under-examined and self serving. Sure, any public figure will be the target of hatred, negative projection, ridicule. And doubtless that's doubly true for female celebrities. But much of this is driven by envy - envy fuelled by the gilded age level of inequality we're currently experiencing. By the performative nature of conspicuous consumption by pop stars. By their ubiquity and elevation to celestial rather than mere celebrity status. There's another factor she fails to recognise. Charlie XCX's music is woeful. 'Pop' in the sense of ephemeral, unoriginal, commercial, rather than merely popular. That, combined with her pretension to art makes her vast wealth and celebrity irksome in a way that the success of more original, avant garde or obviously 'artistic' musicians from David Bowie to Imogen Heap is not.
- tormeh 10mo agoIt's just entertainment. I don't think there's anything to it. The four chord song over and over. We all want some sort of excitement or maybe magic, and these superstars give it to us. The reality distortion fields around them is attractive in and of themself as an escape from our boring lives. Being 'artistic' is not in itself a good thing. It could just mean you take yourself too seriously. If you advance the art somehow - cool. If you're just being weird for the sake of originality... I guess some people like that as well.
- dbspin 10mo ago> Being 'artistic' is not in itself a good thing. It's as much a part of being human as love or work or dance or any other culturally universal meaningful activity. And making art is significantly more important for our personal development and wellbeing than consuming entertainment. > We all want some sort of excitement or maybe magic, and these superstars give it to us. You're not describing magic, you're describing succour. The avoidance of pain. It's not worthless by any means, but it's low down on the pyramid of needs. It's a testament to the diminished expectations and value inversions of our culture that we misperceive fluff as worthwhile, and sincere creative expression as 'taking yourself too seriously'.
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- brabel 10mo ago> We are still trained to hate women, to hate ourselves and to be angry at women if they step out of the neat little box that public perception has put them in. I really don’t see this. Female singers seem to be enjoying about as much freedom to do and act in whatever way they please as it’s possible without basically letting them get away with criminal behavior… and even then many openly talk about doing drugs and other stuff that would get anyone else in trouble. Is it possible I am blind to some patriarchal society traits that make us “hate” women and she’s right about that?? If not, why some women still believe that??
- NaomiLehman 10mo agoFew female pop stars manage to gain success without appealing to the "male gaze" even if they produce stuff for women as their target demographic. On the contrary people mostly don't care if male musicians are hot - Ed Sheeran or make very questionable decisions - Drake. Look at top 20 male and female popular artists on Spotify and try to think how many of them are agreeable and objectively good looking. https://kworb.net/spotify/listeners.html https://kworb.net/spotify/listeners.html I don't know know if this answers your question. I also might have a huge blind spot, open to talking about this.
- amenhotep 10mo agoThe majority of the popular male musicians there are comparably photogenic to the females, Sheeran is really the major exception and he's not even ugly, just Distinctive in a way that's easily matched by Sia and personally I'd say both Gaga and Eilish. It just looks like pretty people are in general a lot more successful, which is unsurprising. The attempt to apply a sexist lens to it is a bit tortured.
- NaomiLehman 10mo agoi absolutely don't agree that they are in the same ballpark of being photogenic when we look at top 50 and estimate averages - this could probably be easy to measure with a jailbroken LLM. the difference is even bigger when I look at agreeability - this is more difficult to measure.
- rsanek 10mo ago> Another thing about being a pop star is that you cannot avoid the fact that some people are simply determined to prove that you are stupid... subconsciously people still believe there is only room for women to be a certain type of way Is this limited to females or even those in pop? I think any star is at risk here. I'd argue male athletes are targets at least as often. See: public discourse on Travis Kelce.
- low_tech_love 10mo agoSay what you will about this piece, I didn’t detect any AI in it and for that I thank Charli. I’ve been desperately for any original thoughts whatever that come out of a human being’s brain and in that sense it was an interesting read. However the real pearl was the link to Lou Reed’s interview, what a gem! It got me into a rabbit hole of watching Lou Reed making “fun” of obnoxious journalists on YouTube and I haven’t laughed this much in a long time. It also reminded me of this classic one from Iggy Pop: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=78S0yrMLfTU&pp=ygUcaWdneSBwb3AgaW50ZXJ2aWV3IHB1bmsgcm9jaw%3D%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=78S0yrMLfTU&pp=ygUcaWdneSBwb3A... Edit: Actually that link is incomplete, this is also important: https://youtu.be/YJEvZHN9E6s https://youtu.be/YJEvZHN9E6s
- rufus_foreman 10mo agoThat wasn't the only time Lou Reed did performance art for the Australian press, the other one is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx-mH9ZjnuM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx-mH9ZjnuM. "Are you happier as a brunette?" "Uh...are you happier as a schmuck?" ... "You like doing things you don't like?" "Yeah. That's a paradox isn't it?" I believe I listened to Charli XCX music once, my girlfriend has grandchildren. Not really my thing, but it's great that people are still being influenced by those interviews. I still listen to the Velvet Underground all the time, but if I listen to Lou Reed's solo stuff, it's either Walk On the Wild Side or those interviews. Maybe "The Kids" from Berlin once in a while. And "Sweet Jane" depending on whether you consider Loaded as a VU album.
- olelele 10mo agoTransformer and the early live stuff are all so so good. Metal machine music was my first real noise record.. :)
- wiz21c 10mo agoI was fortunate enough to be somewhat on television as a geek/nerd for 2-3 years. I was not famous, didn't make money out of it. It happened from time to time that people recognized me when at the groceries or some other place. I always had found that very awkward. These people have an image of you, they know a bit about you, they like you but on the other hand you absolutely don't know them. I did my best to be welcoming and had genuine interest in who they were but the asymetry was very awkward to me. Also, people close to your friends also know you are "on tv" and then you can feel they look at you differently. It's subtle (after all, I was just a verrrrrrrrrryy minor figure) but it's there. But what I've learned a lot is that once you see the TV and some famous people from the inside, you realize that they are much more normal than what you thought. Sure they've got some talent you sure don't have, but for the rest they're human: some are cool, some are not, some funny some boring, etc.
- Balgair 10mo agoIf any 'normal' person wants to experience the smallest titch of this, go take your best American accent to someplace remote (but not in North America or tourist-Europe). The locals there will try to pin which celebrity you are or if they have seen you before on the television. It's not a 100% thing, maybe a 10% thing, of course. But the more remote you are, the higher the hit rate. It's because they know they are remote and off the paths, so they think that the only reason that an American is there is because they are filming something. Note this doesn't work with French speaking areas.
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- derangedHorse 10mo ago> I don’t view what I do as a ‘job’ > doing an actual real service industry job I see a lot of other figures in pop culture echo this sentiment. The need to downplay the effort involved because the payoff is disproportionate to the effort/payoff ratio of most other jobs. In a job where mass public perception dictates success I can see why she would feel the need to include this, but I hope she doesn't truly believe it. A globally recognized chef who gets paid millions for their work isn't downplaying his effort because of how disproportionately valued it is, so neither should a pop star. > patriarchal society we unfortunately live in has successfully brainwashed us all I'm not totally subscribed to this "patriarchy" narrative. I think any "brainwashing" (or establishment of cultural norms) is from a mix of figures from both genders alike. I don't think it's a symptom of the perceived problem of higher positions mainly holding men in power. I do agree with her assessment with there being people postured to give an excessive amount of hate to women who don't fit their societal expectations vs. men who don't, so I'll give her that. With that said, this was still a good read. I'm not too familiar with Charli XCX but I have a lot of respect for her using her free time to share her experiences. I hope to see more from her in the future.
- MiddleEndian 10mo agoOne thing I found clever about certain celebrities, like Dolly Parton and Guy Fieri, is that their public images are so distinct but transient (Dolly Parton has a wig, Guy Fieri looks like Guy Fieri) that I imagine if they dressed down like normal people, they'd be able to blend in with the public.
- lazarus01 10mo agoVery weak writing. There’s nothing in there that I couldn’t capture with a very basic imagination. While I appreciate how women face misogyny, we have made great progress where women are showing better progression than men in income and career achievement. I am a father to a young woman and feel our social group is full of very successful and inspiring women that we all appreciate to be around. The author does women a disservice, instead of being inspiring with her climb to success, she’s venting that the world is just not good enough. To become a pop star comes from pure luck and what is marketable in the moment. For this case, the observations are more of a cliche than anything interesting.
- Cheer2171 10mo agoI thought her writing was 10x better than your comment, which was completely unoriginal, retreads old cultural tropes, and added nothing of value. Of course you father of daughters doesn't think she's a good feminist role model for your girls. Thank you, good sir, for being an actual feminist. How brave. Tell me more about what you think would be a service to women? Do you have a Substack where I can read your manly wisdom?
- whamlastxmas 10mo agoIt's unfortunate to see her have a lot of self awareness of her status and what she represents in part (capitalism), but when it comes to asking herself why some people have a negative knee jerk reaction to her presence, she falls back to "it's because I'm a woman". Which to be fair I am positive happens and frequently. But I would be shocked if it wasn't more commonly because she's rich and famous and lives a life of hedonism (her words). She even touches on this when she describes entering through back entrances and the staff probably hating her. She represents the same feeling we have about trust fund babies. They have a ridiculous fun, easy, rewarding life, and meanwhile then waiter is cleaning baby vomit off the ground for $20 an hour after tips.