33 ms·

Valve is about to win the console generation

• Slava_Propanei 11mo ago
  [dead]
• miohtama 11mo ago
  So no Half Life 3? (':
  • juris 11mo ago
    Rumor has it that it’d be released with the VR set in 2026 ;)
    • embedding-shape 11mo ago
      It'd be a good plan. Make HL3 a VR game since you built VR experience by making Alyx, take it to the next level by launching your own VR headset, everything is perfectly made together and HL3 launch would be as big if not bigger than GTA, and you optimize it for your own hardware.
      • Orygin 11mo ago
        HL3 is most likely not a VR game as Valve said they aren't working on a first party VR title (plus data mining seems to confirm). Plus they already have Alyx as the masterpiece, and it was already made with their own VR headset in mind: the Valve Index. Maybe HLX will have some kind of VR interaction possible, as they want to push technology further with each Half life game.
        • embedding-shape 11mo ago
          Valve also said something like "ARM gaming won't be a thing for us for a very long time", but seems tides can change :) I wouldn't put too much weight into any publisher/developer saying what they aren't doing, even if they were working on HL3, they'd keep that under very tight wraps.
          • Orygin 11mo ago
            I mean, there are plenty of info available on the status of HL3 (code named HLX) and all point to it not being a VR title. Also I don't think ARM is really a thing for them, even now. They want to support running software on the headset, and sure why not enable compatibility layers to play some small games, but the end goal is clearly streaming from a PC. Maybe if some good ARM cpu hit the market they will pivot, but up until recently "ARM gaming" meant mobile phones.
            • embedding-shape 11mo ago
              > there are plenty of info available on the status of HL3 (code named HLX) and all point to it not being a VR title Anything besides rumors? AFAIK, there is absolutely zero official information beyond the rumor mill. > Also I don't think ARM is really a thing for them, even now. I mean, then you're just looking the other way intentionally, they're quite literally adding support for ARM now, https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2025/11/codeweavers-launch-a-new-crossover-preview-adding-linux-arm64-support/ https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2025/11/codeweavers-launch-a-n... That's not something you do on a whim, it's a calculated step towards something. And they're clearly setting up the new VR head to both do standalone gameplay for people without PCs, and to do streaming from PC. None of the Steam hardware seems to have only a single use in fact, all of them are multipurpose, not sure why the VR headset should be any different, especially when what we know points to it also being multipurpose, quite explicitly so at that.
              • Orygin 11mo ago
                > Anything besides rumors? AFAIK, there is absolutely zero official information beyond the rumor mill. If you count datamining as rumors, then no, nothing else. But the data mining is real data coming from valve so it's more than just "somebody said...". You can find lists of all the references to HLX found in other games, and what that tells us about the game. >I mean, then you're just looking the other way intentionally, they're quite literally adding support for ARM now Yes, I'm not looking the other way. But ARM is not their bread and butter and won't be for a good while. I'm fairly certain they are pushing this because they can, not because there is a strategic importance to supporting ARM. Had they been able to use a x86 cpu in the Frame, I'm sure they would have. Plus, ARM gaming implies games made for ARM running on steam, like on mobile phones. This is "just" an emulation layer to play x86 games on ARM. Just like Apple is doing with the Game Porting Toolkit, and just like Microsoft is doing with their Windows on ARM. Are they really pushing ARM Gaming, or PC gaming or ARM?
    • utopiah 11mo ago
      I wish... https://www.uploadvr.com/valve-isnt-currently-working-on-a-new-vr-game/ https://www.uploadvr.com/valve-isnt-currently-working-on-a-n... :(
  • qudat 11mo ago
    Wasn’t that Alyx?
    • accrual 11mo ago
      Perhaps Alyx walked so HL3 could run.
  • attendant3446 11mo ago
    They announced 3 devices. 3! HL3 confirmed :D
• thrownawaysz 11mo ago
  >I think it's safe to say that Valve is about to win the next console generation. For that they need to outsell the Switch 2. 10m units in 6 months. Good luck with that.
  • xena 11mo ago
    Nintendo is in its own category in which the other competitor is also Valve. For now Nintendo is winning there.
    • lawlessone 11mo ago
      I love great graphics but , Nintendo carved a nice big niche out for themselves by recognizing the constant drive for best graphics is a bit of rat race.
      • esseph 11mo ago
        Nintendo has a tiny library. Steam does not.
        • neighbour 11mo ago
          Steam Deck has a tiny install base. Switch 2 does not. I'm mostly a PC gamer but let's be real here.
          • taeric 11mo ago
            Though, to be fair, my kids steal my Steam Deck from me more often than I try to get the Switch from them. The family share features of the Switch leave a lot to be desired.
            • neighbour 10mo ago
              That doesn't change the reality that the Steam Deck is a niche device. I hope that changes though.
• theoldgreybeard 11mo ago
  They announced 3 products guys. The first time Valve has counted to 3. Half Life 3 is coming.
  • lugarlugarlugar 11mo ago
    [flagged]
  • preisschild 11mo ago
    Maybe try Half Life Alyx :P
  • alexchantavy 11mo ago
    Been a decade since I've seen a Half Life 3 joke on the internet, thanks for this
  • veunes 11mo ago
    Careful now, you're gonna jinx it
• altairprime 11mo ago
  By making it immutable out of the box, VAC enforcement because vastly easier and third-party multiplayer anti-cheating kernel rootkits are replaced by “attest that you are unmodified”, which Steam Linux and macOS/tvOS/iOS/iPadOS can do — but not Windows 10/11, because sealed boot functionality is behind Microsoft’s enterprise annual subscription fee paywall. This positions Steam Linux as the monopoly provider of console-gaming Linux, since no one else is doing sealed attestation Linux at scale, and opens the door for multiplayer AAA games to target Steam Linux for their day-one releases as a competitive equal to Xbox/PS5/Switch and as a better defended console platform than Windows PCs. The modifications described by OP are still possible, but won’t be compatible with multiplayer anti-cheating enforcement, which is perfectly fine; boot to sealed for competitive gaming, boot to custom for single player, everyone wins except Microsoft’s Windows division. (If Microsoft hadn’t shot off their foot with Windows 10, they could have simply enabled sealed booting for all 10/11 installations and remained competitive as a gaming platform, but I think they’re done with that business.) Nice to see my predictions pan out and I look forward to buying one :)
  • SchemaLoad 11mo ago
    Immutability doesn't provide this on it's own. You can load any custom immutable image you want. What game devs want is full boot chain attestation where every part of the OS is measured and verified untampered with, and then to load their own spyware at the highest level. The only way immutability helps here is you could have two OS images, the users own customisable one, and a clean one. Then when you try to load an anti cheat game, the console could in theory reboot in to the clean one, and pass all the verification checks to load the game.
    • altairprime 11mo ago
      I am, indeed, assuming that their immutable image can generate attestations chained appropriately. If not, it’s a catastrophic business error on their part to put in all that work, and I don’t consider that degree of failure likely. Definitely curious to see if they can enable the chain on existing Steamdecks or not.
• 29athrowaway 11mo ago
  Steam Controller 1 wasn't good IMO and is now accumulating dust.
  • esseph 11mo ago
    I asked a coworker today about those and he said it's the only controller he cares to use at all, especially for FPS.
    • 29athrowaway 11mo ago
      I don't know. I couldn't really get used to it, it has a weird feeling to it.
  • Normal_gaussian 11mo ago
    Its an odd one; the v1 controller feels cheap and definitely isn't as high fidelity as a modern PS5 controller. It struggled to match the quality of contemporary controllers at the same price point. But the touchpads worked. They shouldn't work, they should be abysmal, but with a little practice they're fantastic.
    • 29athrowaway 11mo ago
      The rumble is really weird.
  • somat 11mo ago
    The main problem was the missing second stick. It was well built, but for game where a controller is nice touch pads sort of suck compared to a stick and for games where a mouse is nice touch pads sort of suck compared to a mouse. So the only real advantage a touch pad brings is in an environment where you can't bring a mouse. I really liked the extra back buttons. with two sticks that is where all the face buttons should be, on the back. Somewhat related, but I enjoy the topic. Is how freakishly good the mouse is for FPS type games. If you asked anyone to design a purpose built controller for a first person game they would not come up with a mouse. But somehow despite all odds that thing designed for moving a cursor around the screen is the best controller yet for looking around. Probably something about the huge throw distance compared to any other controller.
• mcphage 11mo ago
  Win the console generation in what sense? In outselling the PS5? The Switch 2? I have trouble picturing it being cheaper than either.
  • m000 11mo ago
    It's the PC games library that will be the catalyst for winning. On a PC, for $15 a month you can get a HumbleBundle subscription and get 5-6 Steam games to keep yours forever (unlike Playstation Plus "free" games). Plus 3-4 free games/month from Epic (an option, since Valve said they won't lock the hardware). Plus 3-4 games from Amazon Prime Gaming if you are a subscriber. Plus a ton of other discount websites. Compare this to the average cost of a PS5 title and the walled garden of the Playstation Store. Not to mention that your PS5 library probably won't be playable on PS6. Yes, AAAA games will still be expensive, but for everything else the Steam Machine will give consoles a run for their money. Cost-conscious gamer are very likely to switch.
    • mcphage 11mo ago
      > It's the PC games library that will be the catalyst for winning. How does the Steam Machine affect this at all, then?
• itsdrewmiller 11mo ago
  Love the enthusiasm but expensive versions of commodity products with last gen specs are not going to win that generation or the next one.
• SchemaLoad 11mo ago
  I think the hardest battle is going to be with anti cheat. The anti cheat that developers want basically requires dystopian levels of restrictions which are against everything valve has done on SteamOS so far. Personally I'd love if we all just went back to playing on personal servers with your real life friends or people you otherwise trust. But I don't think this is would go over well with the average online gamer.
  • sedatk 11mo ago
    If anti-virus software can function in user mode, anti-cheat software can too. https://www.theverge.com/news/692637/microsoft-windows-kernel-antivirus-changes https://www.theverge.com/news/692637/microsoft-windows-kerne...
    • deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
    • Orygin 11mo ago
      We know, and the game devs know too. But Kernel anti cheat is not a solution but simply a marketing feature to make their users think they try. Just seeing all the gamers requesting a kernel AC for CS2, saying VAC does not work; but now they have banned a lot of cheaters and seem to have less cheaters than the new Battlefield which has kernel AC.
    • tintor 11mo ago
      That depends on Microsoft.
  • throwaway17_17 11mo ago
    Hard agreement from me, but my 16 year old bricked his PC on Sunday trying to enable Valorant’s BS anti-cheat, secure boot required crap. He even knew ahead of time that he couldn’t enable it, but the pull of online gaming turned off his brain. I don’t think we’re gonna win this battle and the war is probably done as well.
  • squigz 11mo ago
• NelsonMinar 11mo ago
  As the article says, "The only way that they could mess this up is with the pricing. ... I'd expect the pricing to be super aggressive." The price to beat is the $400-$500 price point of PS5 and XBox. I'm guessing Valve is going to have a very hard time matching that. We'll know soon enough.
  • nemomarx 11mo ago
    Is that the price point of those anymore? I see 550 ish for the base ps5 with a disc drive and closer to 750 for the pro. I don't expect them to match either in volume but it seems like microsoft is already backing out of the dedicated console hardware space tho
  • cryzinger 11mo ago
    They don't even necessarily have to beat the PS5/Xbox. I already own the former but sometimes lament not being able to play the many, many PC exclusives out there (or at least nothing released in the past 10+ years since my daily driver laptop has poor specs). Just recently I was wondering whether one of those all-in-one Lenovo desktop boxes would have decent enough specs to play current-gen PC games at halfway decent settings, and my guess is that they don't, but I don't want to go through the hassle of building a PC and definitely don't want a tower with a huge footprint. Turns out the Steam Machine is exactly what I'm looking for.
    • sedatk 11mo ago
      Exactly. I have both PS5 and Xbox One X, but I still connect my Steam Deck to TV to play Hades II because the game hasn't come out on those two consoles yet.
    • hinkley 11mo ago
      I bought a steam deck to play Age of Wonders 4. Briefly got sucked into playing a Skyrim again.
  • throwaway17_17 11mo ago
    I think that realistically, Valve probably only need to be on par with the top of Sony’s offering hardware wise. The ability to have Steam integration on the machine (including the large amount of subpar but very cheap games) will prompt at least some movement. I’d say $800 is probably the high-end of reasonable for price point. I can certain say I’d rather just buy my kids a StreamBox than have to deal with them want full capability PCs.
• asadotzler 11mo ago
  It won't outsell Quest 2, much less the real consoles, not in the next half decade anyway.
• ChrisArchitect 11mo ago
  Related: Steam Frame https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903325 Steam Machine https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404
• skissane 11mo ago
  So, Steam is planning to sell these at a loss, but isn’t planning to lock out third party OS? What’s to stop people buying them to use for completely unrelated use cases? I guess it depends on how big the loss is… if it is small, it might not be really worth it for most people; but any larger, I wonder how sustainable this will be.
  • killingtime74 11mo ago
    Did they say they are selling at a loss?
    • TheRoque 11mo ago
      I don't think they have, but it's the business model of most consoles, to be able to be very affordable. So since the headline is implying it'll do better than consoles, it's implying it'll be sold at a loss too. But honestly, I find that article BS.
    • Normal_gaussian 11mo ago
      Valve haven't said that, but the article randomly claims it.
    • deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
  • protimewaster 11mo ago
    I think the explanation is that people love Valve beyond reason, so a vast majority will just use Steam on it. Plus, Steam is bordering on a monopoly for PC gaming anyway, so, even if they install another OS, a user is probably going to end up on Steam.
  • TheRoque 11mo ago
    If that's what happens, then I'm buying one of these right away for sure. I mean, I use steam a lot, but I certainly won't be locked in their "SteamOS". Maybe they are betting that most users will be too lazy to change the defaults and stick to SteamOS (which might very well be the case, and they have a hint of this thanks to the data they have on the Steam Deck)
• neilv 11mo ago
  What is the multiplayer cheating situation like on Steam games? (Technology, demographics, popularity?)
  • TheRoque 11mo ago
    "steam games", doesn't really mean anything. Most games are on steam nowadays. It mostly depends on the OS on which the games run. Games with kernel anti cheat: low cheaters population, runs on Windows but not Linux. Games without kernel anti cheat: low to high (think counter strike official servers) cheaters population.
• Normal_gaussian 11mo ago
  Valve certainly won't win it, but they're bringing the heat where it wasn't before. SteamOS is the important part here - if it is proven to be a good console experience (which the deck has basically proven already) then licensing of the OS to other manufacturers will put a lot of pressure on integrated h/w s/w manufacturers. Unlike the handheld format, the tvbox console is fairly easy to manufacture and is tolerant of a lot of spec and price variety. Any slip up by Sony and Microsoft in specs and price will result in steam machine variants carving away market share, which could force more frequent console releases. The steam machine will almost certainly come in at a higher price point than the PS5, but with no 'online' subscription charge and reasonably priced storage upgrades we may see these revenue streams disappear from the next console generation in order to compete. SteamOS isn't perfect, and the variety inherent in the platform that is a strength is also a weakness. The core markets for Nintendo and for Sony aren't going anywhere.
  • robomc 11mo ago
    Yeah I mean... can I play Fortnite, BF6 or the upcoming GTA on steamOS?
    • lanfeust6 11mo ago
      Fortnite came out in '17, at some point it's no longer going to be relevant.
      • jsheard 11mo ago
        Counter Strike came out in '99 and it's more relevant than ever. Some games just keep going and going.
        • Ferret7446 11mo ago
          I hate to break it to you, but CS is not relevant. How much money do you think it makes, compared to recent top sellers or live service/mobile games?
• pipeline_peak 11mo ago
  They’re not gonna win the console generation, this marks the end of the console generation. That and intermediary consoles like the PS5 Pro are blurring the lines and adapting to the popularity of PC gaming.
• Forgeties79 11mo ago
  We heard this literally with the previous steam machine lol There’s no doubt they’re tee’d up to radically alter the landscape. But man they better have a truly plug and play, turnkey system if they want to compete with consoles. The steamdeck even after this many years is absolutely trash at going from handheld to docked (better the other direction at least) and is incredibly hit or miss when it’s plugged into a TV in general. I had to buy a special DP->HDMI cable that forces 1080p @60 to get it to consistently appear on screen docked (LG C1 for reference). I am excited for the steam machine. But yeah, telling me it’s a more powerful steamdeck is super exciting in some ways and eyebrow raising in others unless they got some big SteamOS overhaul coming.
  • deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  • Normal_gaussian 11mo ago
    Most of the deck/dock screen issues are related to dock firmware and USBC display negotiation. The steam machine has built in HDMI and Display port which are presumably relatively bog standard.
    • Forgeties79 11mo ago
      This is the steamdeck official dock plugged into my LGC1, which is one model in a very popular line of TV’s, via hdmi.
      • SchemaLoad 11mo ago
        The official steam deck dock seems to be fairly buggy, it's widely complained about. I've been using an Apple USB-C to HDMI adapter and it's worked perfect on every TV I've tried it on. Since the steam machines don't use USB-C video out this wouldn't be an issue.
        • deleted 11mo ago
          [deleted]
• TheRoque 11mo ago
  I hardly understand the headline. Steam machine is just a computer, and since it can be used for other stuff than playing games, then it can't have the cheap pricing of a console. Most consoles are sold at a loss, and the benefits are made when selling console-exclusive games. If you sell something at a loss, but users aren't forced to buy your games, then you're not gonna make any money. Hence, the Steam Machine (AKA GabeCube) is gonna be as expensive as a laptop (or slightly less expensive because of the bigger form factor and lack of portability). On top of that, the base OS can't run a ton of games that run on console, because it runs in the way of kernel anti cheats (think: battlefield, call of duty, valorant, league of legends... the biggest games basically), while consoles are guaranteed to run most AAA games. So with all that in mind - while I appreciate what Valve is doing a lot - I don't think it'll win the "console generation". I hardly see how it can even be called a console. It's just a PC, and that's how they call it themselves.
  • chamomeal 11mo ago
    Is money still made from console exclusives? I feel like I see less of them these days. The biggest games are cross platform monsters, and the smallest are indie games. Crazy to think that the Horizon Zero Dawns of the world would be propping up all of console gaming?? But maybe that’s why Xbox is looking to get out. And trying new monetization strategies (gamepass is on Roku or something)
    • Normal_gaussian 11mo ago
      Exclusives sold consoles which determined future revenues. MS messed up horrendously with both a worse console and meh exclusives. An exclusive will sell fewer copies, so the console manufacturer will strike a beneficial deal to make up for it.
    • tormeh 11mo ago
      In principle the consoles themselves and the exclusives are both loss leaders. Or, sold at cost, anyway. The actual money is made from the 30% cut on any third party game sales, and the online subscriptions required to play online. Consoles are expensive. Once a consumer has bought one, they're likely to stick with it for the generation. This is why we have flame wars about them. Only a small minority has several high-end gaming devices.
• evo_9 11mo ago
  One other semi-unrecognized advantage Valve has over consoles is their generous return policy. I’ve bought many games on a whim knowing if I don’t jive with it I can safely get a full refund. Contrast that with my Ps5 where my 2 year old managed to smash buttons while I was tied up on a work call and bought COD for $69 bucks… no way to refund it and I’m not a fan of shooters. Basically Fd on that one.
  • _carbyau_ 11mo ago
    My experience is otherwise. I returned one game and got banned from buying other games for a month - during a sale, so I missed that sale and was out of sync with friends for a bit. I don't give a shit for the money, but fucking my social gaming time was unforgiveable. I still use Steam, but don't fucking trust Valves return policy.
    • hananova 11mo ago
      Is there anything more to this? I’ve returned dozens of games that I didn’t end up liking and the only consequence I’ve faced is that games with trading cards don’t start dropping them until 2 hours of play time, which I think is completely fair.
      • okayjustonemore 11mo ago
        There most certainly is. This is not Steam’s default refund procedure in the slightest. I’d be willing to bet they were abusing the system somehow and support caught them red handed.
        • _carbyau_ 11mo ago
          I'm not sure how to abuse the return system. It's not like I pirate anything from Steam. And I used the return process through Steam - exactly once, as mentioned above. If I wasn't meant to do a thing, then I would think the process should not let me do it. But I returned it in good faith, for a game that managed to make me rage quit in less than an hour - I like to think at least that I am usually patient but I wasn't putting up with that shit. If a Valve employee with rights to look into it is reading this - I'd love to know what I did so wrong. But given that human explanations from modern software based corporations are non-existent, I will assume I was treated as per their returns policy. And the outcome has worked in Steams favour. I buy for (account) life now, for better or for worse. As previously mentioned, I don't care about the money so much as the social. But my decision making process to drop the significant money required for Steam hardware will assume the return/warranty is worth precisely zero.
• rvz 11mo ago
  > Really, the only thing that can go wrong with any of this hardware is the price. The chances of any of the Steam Machines taking the market share of any of the current generation consoles is so vanishingly miniscule, that I don't think it can even compete against any of them. It more or less competes against the Linux ecosystem of System76 machines or the Framework computers. But against consoles? No dent at all in their market share.
• AceJohnny2 11mo ago
  I don't really understand the early enthusiasm about the Steam Machine, and I happily own a Steam Deck. "It's on par with a PS5!" You mean the thing that was launched over 5 years ago (exactly!) ? We don't know its price yet, which is the most crucial detail.
  • echelon 11mo ago
    I don't play games much anymore, so maybe I'm not the right person to respond. Why would anyone ever buy a console again? This thing has the ultimate library and works on all platforms. Steam seems to have played the best game of chess in the industry. Sony and Microsoft were battling over exclusives and acquisitions and ways to screw over customers. This came out of left field and looks a million times better than Xbox or PS5. It has people's entire libraries on it, and the games are cheap and portable. There's no lock down. No funny business. I almost want one. I'm excited about it and I don't even think I'd play it.
    • noobermin 11mo ago
      In the era of mobile games, hardware really isn't a thing anymore. Even AAA titles are niche IMO given the cost to play them at full settings. All that matters now are the exclusive titles. You refer to this derisively but really that's what made the nintendo switch, clearly the weakest compared to the PS5 and even the steam deck in the last generation the clear winner.
      • funflame 11mo ago
        And do you think PC has less exclusives compared to PS5 / other consoles? How many games on Steam has never been released on consoles vs the other way round? By that logic I'd expect this one to completely dominate.
        • noobermin 11mo ago
          So, we should define terms. To "dominate" should mean to sell more than or make more money than the competition, which may include taking market share from the competition. I don't doubt valve will continue to make money in an absolute sense, it already does and this likely doesn't change that. Steam already has a monopoly in the PC space and has the "exclusives" you talk about, essentially games that never were ported to the PS5 or the switch. Thus, in order for the steam machine to take market share from the other consoles, you a) have to take console share from those players, likely by pressuring those developers to port from the consoles to PC. That could be something, but no doubt that pressure already exists, as steam already exists. I don't see how the steam machine changes that. In fact, the opposite situation exists which is why steam makes so much money, as you said. To actually dominate, it can only happen after situation c) below. New customers or dollars cannot come from people who have a PC and can now forgo using their pc for gaming (by neglecting to upgrade their pc to keep up to date to play new AAAs), as the assumption here is they are selling the consoles at a loss (which may not be true, we'll have to find out). That if anything, is essentially a soft form of b) cannibalisation. So that isn't really "gaining market share" more so than it's changing the means of consumption of the same thing. Moreover, if they choose to sell at a loss, then I only can imagine this leading to actual cannibalisation from their existing PC customers as there isn't really any actual profit being made here. So finally, the only route they have to expanding their player base in my mind is c) new gamers, that is casual phone players or other non-enthusiast gamers who don't really play games but will be willing to buy a console. This is how the Wii excelled in its generation and how the switch won the last one. Here, it all comes down to price and thus how much Valve is willing to sell at a loss or otherwise subsidise the steam machine using steam proper. So, this to feels like their only real route to "dominating." As I alluded to above, a) can only happen if c) happens, as Steam already has the mindshare it does and thus it already has the same allure to developers as is the case today, and those developers are still pursuing exclusives with the PS5 and the switch. Thus, if certain developers or games are stuck on the switch or the PS5 with current conditions, they won't move enmass to the steam machine unless c) happens first and thus their calculus changes. And of course, selling at a loss means that they also run the risk of only b) occurring if they don't gain enough new players fast enough to offset the loss from selling consoles. That leaves them not selling the hardware at a loss, then I don't really know. It's just the steam machine will likely be north of 700 usd if you're not subsidising it, and like the steam deck it will be a novelty item they may or may not make a profit off of. That I wouldn't call "domination", although they may make money overall so I don't doubt they will end up happy.
• wnevets 11mo ago
  Putting the steam machine in the same category as a console didn't make sense to me a decade ago and doesn't make much sense to me today.
• intexpress 11mo ago
  To win this console generation and outsell the PS5, Valve would have to sell 85 million Steam Machines (as of today, and likely need to sell 120 million by the end of the generation). About a 0% chance of that happening. Looks cool, though
  • xena 11mo ago
    I'm implying they'd win via a cultural victory TBH
    • wongogue 11mo ago
      I am up for a lego pyramid made of Steam machines.
    • johnnyanmac 11mo ago
      Everyone is sinking culture on real time. So winning by throwing a bread crumb out is technically correct, but not significant.
  • marginalia_nu 11mo ago
    Surely the Steam Machine is in a newer generation than the PS5?
    • redwall_hp 11mo ago
      Its specs seem on par with the PS5 Pro, and this doesn't even have a price or a shipping date yet. The PS5 is already about five years old, has had a slim release and a PS5 Pro. The PS6 announcement is probably a year away, with a 2027 or 2028 release. Valve is launching a last-gen console, probably at a price that won't be competitive, right before the PS6 comes out.
      • someNameIG 11mo ago
        I think Digital Foundry has expects the performance to be bit below the base PS5 in most cases. It has a new generation of CPU/GPU than the PS5, but less cores/ CUs. VRAM is also only 8GB, PCs generally need more than that to match PS5 settings.
• starkparker 11mo ago
  > The only possible flaw I can see is that the strap it ships with doesn't go over the top of your head. If this ends up being an issue in practice, somebody is going to make a third party strap that just fixes this problem Not even a third party: https://youtu.be/b7q2CS8HDHU?t=380 https://youtu.be/b7q2CS8HDHU?t=380 > the option of an ergonomic strap that you can hook onto the top, hook onto the back, to take more weight off the front of your head. https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/vr-hardware/steam-frame-specs-availability/ https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/vr-hardware/steam-frame-spe... > There's an optional ergonomic accessories kit for the Steam Frame that adds an extra strap for your head and a pair of straps, one for each controller. These added controller straps are reminiscent of those found on the Index and seem like a reasonable investment, if the price is right.
• tumidpandora 11mo ago
  "At par with PS5.." comparing hardware specs with a console loved by millions and into year 6 of it's lifecycle. I'd rather play my PS5 titles on a PS5 or a portal than on the steam machine. Steam deck is dated, went with the portal and love it.
• protocolture 11mo ago
  Whats the media experience like on SteamOS these days? Does it have built in support for media playback? I used to have Kodi running on PhantomOS but it was janky.
• mtillman 11mo ago
  This is really cool. I still play my series X on occasion but tend to prefer the experience I get from my Saturn and Dreamcast when I load a game and it plays without needing to update. Every time I turn on my Xbox or PC with steam/GOG I have to wait for an update of some kind.
• dang 11mo ago
  Related ongoing threads: Steam Controller - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45905703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45905703 Steam Machine - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404 Steam Frame - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903325
• thordenmark 11mo ago
  Attached my old gaming rig to the TV to run Steam on it and it is a better experience than any consoles I have (being a gaming nerd I have everything from my old Atari 2600 and most mainstreams systems since then up to PS5). This is good news to hear Valve going in strong for the console market.
  • woile 11mo ago
    same, I just attached my old laptop with nixos + steam + jellyfin, everything running on KDE and it's been super smooth so far.
• phendrenad2 11mo ago
  This feels like Valve's iPhone, while the original 2012 Steam Machines were the Newton.
• silisili 11mo ago
  Not a chance. As much as I respect all the work Valve has done for gaming...this doesn't understand the market. PC gamers will play on their PC. Couch gamers will have a PS5 or an XBox. So who is this for, couch gamers that don't have one of those? Or PC players tired of playing on a monitor? Don't get me wrong, it's cool, and I'm definitely the target market but feel like that's pretty tiny. Most couch gamers want their GTA or Call of Duty, which, if I read correctly, this will not run.
  • h05sz487b 11mo ago
    I am very much a PC gamer turned couch gamer. I have a capable PC sitting next to my Xbox Series X. The user experience is worse, as everytime I turn it on soemthing needs updating, I cannot control all of Windows through my gamepad. This ticks a lot of boxes for me. Might start witht the Controller first.
    • silisili 11mo ago
      Two of us! As mentioned, I'm probably part of the target market and will probably check it out. It's not useless by any definition, but will it really outsell the PS5? Because that is, to me, what the headline is implying...
      • terribleperson 11mo ago
        I don't think it'll outsell any current console. Not even the anemic and dying Xbox Series X. I think that appropriately priced and supported, it will put Valve in a strategic position to actually compete in subsequent console generations as a real player. It's a little behind in terms of specs, but with as slow as uptake of this generation has been, I expect that developers will continue to target base PS5 specs for another six years at least (PS6 supposedly landing in 2027). Then they can drop their Steam Machine 2 in 2029 or 2030, hitting base PS6 specs at an affordable price. It's been a winning approach for Nintendo.
  • thoughtpalette 11mo ago
    Just to add I'm also in this boat. We have a ASUS ROG NUC in our living room and it's a pain logging into Windows (cant find an actual tutorial to skip that works) . It's been a great entry way into gaming for my wife (lot's of cozy games) and I also play a few games from my steam backlog (Halo, Hades 2, etc). I don't feel like we're in the minority for what a couch system is used for but maybe. The largest hurdle for steam in the living room so far has been controller support or lack of couch co-op games.
• noobermin 11mo ago
  I generally like the OP's posts, but I really don't buy their argument. If anything, the nintendo switch winning the last generation is a great example of how hardware isn't always that important, the game library essentially is what makes a console win, and in as much as the hardware enables the breadth of the library, that's all that matters. Like the steam deck, I don't know who other than power users who will buy it. I love the openness they will bring to the market, but that doesn't mean they will win.
  • jijijijij 11mo ago
    I would totally buy it, if it's not silly expensive. I am not a power gamer or whatever, at all. I absolutely do not want gaming mingled with my primary PC usage, work and stuff. For reasons of OS choice, data integrity, security and distraction management/work-play-separation. Can't over-emphasize the importance of this. But to me there is no question PC gaming is superior. However, I can't justify building a full-blown "gaming PC" just for gaming. Some years ago, I got a PS4 Pro just to satisfy my occasional gaming urge and I love the console form factor, no tweaking and press power to play ergonomics. I wish I could install some mods for old games, tho, and the PS4 library is super limited compared to Steam. I also feel sad, the PS lock-down means unnecessary hardware obsolescence. And I hate Sony's rent seeking for online services and would never buy PS Plus. I know quite a few people in my social sphere who are exactly in the same spot I am, who would love exactly what's shown with the Steam thingy. It will all depend on the price.
• hoppp 11mo ago
  Year of linux desktop..I mean console.. . Confirmed?
• deleted 11mo ago
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• ensocode 11mo ago
  I’m not a gamer and not into consoles, but I’m watching Valve and SteamOS from the sidelines with a lot of goodwill. It’s great to see more people buying hardware that runs on Arch — that alone is a good thing. Still, something about this feels a bit too good to be true.
• unpopularopp 11mo ago
  If they want to capture the console audience its better be priced like one too and not prevent me from playing multiplayer games due to Linux and anti cheat software not playing nice Anything above $600 is DOA and that's with accepting the fact that the most popular games will be not available on the platform
• oliwarner 11mo ago
  It's even worse for their competitors than this acknowledges. SteamOS on Arm (using FEX) is going to spawn a generation of £100 devices that can play lower end Windows games, stream from PC, and emulate every console from the PS2 back. It's huge.
  • pezezin 11mo ago
    You don't need Valve for that, Chinese brands like Anbernic, Ayn or Ayaneo are smashing the market right now.
• acdbddh 11mo ago
  As much as I love hacking with various things, there are reasons why I buy "closed products" for myself and for my family. I like to do hacking when I want it (with ESP32, rpi etc). I don't want to be forced to serve as a free IT support guy anytime someone presses a wrong button. When it comes to gaming consoles, I want them to serve reliably to my family. The game console must be fun, optimized for best experience and should not break. Will that be possible with an open platform where anyone can install anything?
  • baq 11mo ago
    and then you have to download a 100GB patch each time you turn the thing on anyway, by the time it ends installing my time slot is gone
    • acdbddh 11mo ago
      Agree. By "best experience" I also mean "don't force me to wait". But my console doesn't do that. Some online games may require patches before playing for better (anticheat) or worse reasons but thats a fault of the game supplier - not the console supplier.
  • hnlmorg 11mo ago
    Unfortunately buying closed systems hasn’t stopped me from being IT support: - “why can’t I play online with EA Sports?” - “I can’t log into Roblox!” - “why can’t I see my sisters world in Minecraft?” - “I’ve lost my Fortnight skins!” - “why does Roblox keep disconnecting me on my phone [when Roblox servers go down]?” - “Why can’t I play this game [without updating it]?” - “this game update takes too long to download!” If there’s one constant in life: it’s that doctors get nagged by friends for free diagnosis, mechanics, electricians, carpenters for free repairs, and software engineers for free IT support.
    • jojomodding 11mo ago
      The constant in life is that there are some people for whom you do things without expecting financial gain.
• stavros 11mo ago
  > Who are we to tell you how to use your computer? I'm buying one just for this sentiment alone.
• stavros 11mo ago
  > The big thing I want to see in practice is their implementation of foveated rendering. This beautiful hack abuses the fact that human eyes have the most sharpness and fidelity at the exact centre of your field of vision, whereas your peripheral vision is abysmal at it. This means that on average you only have to render about 10% of the frame at maximum quality for it to feel like it's running at full resolution all over the screen. > This should make the fact that the Frame is using a "weaker" CPU/GPU irrelevant. Games should look fine as long as they render the slice that needs to be in full quality fast enough. It's not foveated rendering, it's foveated streaming. The CPU/GPU should easily be able to handle decoding video, whether foveated or not.
  • xena 11mo ago
    It is for games running natively
  • 827a 11mo ago
    What they're saying is that they might have a foviated rendering solution in addition to the foviated streaming solution we know about, and we'd like to hear about it.
    • fooker 11mo ago
      Implementing foveated rendering is pretty much up to the game developers.
• aa-jv 11mo ago
  Does anyone know if the foveated rendering feature of the Steam Frame depends on eye-tracking? Is it tracking the iris to determine the center of foveation, or is there some other trick to doing this?
  • whywhywhywhy 11mo ago
    Needs eye tracking and it's foveated streaming not rendering.
• zombot 11mo ago
  > Valve does nothing and still wins. Who would have thought that not actively engaging in enshittification can be a secret winning recipe!
• jsmailes 11mo ago
  For me, the big killer feature would be if this device is approved for modern media DRM. As much as I'm tired of streaming and its level of control over how I watch TV, it's still a decent part of my media consumption, but any Linux mini-PC I connect to the TV can only do low-resolution streaming from most providers. If the steam machine is approved for high-resolution streaming, it could totally replace the smart TV stack in most homes.
  • ZeroCool2u 11mo ago
    Yes, I think one of the most important things we as consumers can do is flood the zone for companies like Netflix, Disney, and Apple and keep asking about native Steam Machine apps installed directly from the Steam store that support 4k streams.
  • linuxftw 11mo ago
    But if more people didn't have locked down devices, the streamers would be forced to open up.
  • johnnyanmac 11mo ago
    Yeah. This is why I threw that all away and simply pirate for my NAS. Im not watching much new media to begin with. and they make it hell, if not impossible, to stream a lot of older shows. And of I do find them I need to compromise with how I stream it, with what account, and where. I just got tired of all VPNs, the DRMs, and trying to tune my network just to try and get a decent feed. Instead, map a network drive once, find torrent, save to movies file, and let Plex (or Emby in my case, for historical reasons) find the metadata.
    • MagicMoonlight 11mo ago
      If you pay £20/month you’ll get 720p. If you pay £0/month you get 4k original rips. It’s just pointless paying.
  • nitwit005 11mo ago
    If Netflix can only get approval with Microsoft Edge or their app on Windows, with specific supported graphics hardware, I doubt there is much hope of that. They want essentially all the hardware and software locked down.
• tjpnz 11mo ago
  I don't think they're even trying to do that. But they will kill Xbox.
• plodman 11mo ago
  Maybe this is less of an issue now we’re in the digital era of console games but one of the biggest aspects for me is that if I buy one of these new machines, my existing library is just there. No starting from scratch or worrying about backwards compatibility. It’s a PC that has everything I need from the get go. The story was the same with the Deck. Granted it took a little while for many games to be fully supported but the transparency from Valve on the store pages about compatibility was great and is in a far better state now.
  • whateveracct 11mo ago
    I just dock my Deck but it was still worth it for the reason you say. Just Works and lets me play my decades-old Steam collection on my TV with the ease of a console. When I buy a game (even an old one), I always had to choose between Switch and PC. But now PC has most of the advantages of the Switch, and I trust my Steam library will persist and be easily playable more than Switch (although Switch 2 compat was great! to be fair)
• christkv 11mo ago
  Unless it's reasonably priced who is the market for this box? If it's at 499 - 599 then it's probably selling well but at 799-899 I'm not sure who would buy it. If it's your first computer you still need more gear like screen, keyboard and mouse etc.
  • James_K 11mo ago
    People who want to play video games would buy it. While us enlightened Computer Intellectuals may appreciate that there is no difference between a console and a PC, the majority of naïve computer peasants will much prefer something with the word “console” tagged on that boots straight to a game library. As for the keyboard and mouse thing, there's this other announcement they've made called the “Steam Controller” which addresses that issue.
  • LandR 11mo ago
    I'd maybe buy it to get access to games I want to play on Steam that I can't get on PS5 to play on the sofa in my living room. It's a small box, it can sit next to the tele without looking awful, and if I just need to get a controller, that's fine too.
• qiine 11mo ago
  by not making a console
• paxys 11mo ago
  They are not going to win the console generation by releasing a machine that cannot play Call of Duty, Battlefield, Valorant, Fortnite, PUBG, Apex Legends, FIFA, Madden, League of Legends, Destiny, Genshin Impact, Forza.
  • deleted 11mo ago
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• kragen 11mo ago
  > Yes, Steam Machine is optimized for gaming, but it's still your PC. Install your own apps, or even another operating system. Who are we to tell you how to use your computer? That makes me very happy.
• glimshe 11mo ago
  This is another status quo improvement from Valve. Great job! That said, I feel we're trading evil gaming monopolies for a less evil monopoly. I can only truly support Valve once they start actually selling games rather than game "licenses". What I want is GOG's transparency and philosophy with Valve's Linux and hardware investments.
• isoprophlex 11mo ago
  But what about the price?! 15 year old kids are never gonna drop 800+ on this nerd box if they can play fifa for, what, 400-500? And THAT'S the demographic to win if you want to break up Big Game.
  • bitmasher9 11mo ago
    The demographics of gaming is shifting older. Valve is clearly running towards where the ball will be. The steam deck is also available for that 400-500 price point.
    • brees504 11mo ago
      The Steamdeck has sold like 4 mil units in 3 years. Handheld PCs are an incredibly niche market.
• viktorcode 11mo ago
  Consoles win a marketshare by having games ported or developed for their hardware, improving experience. What Valve offers is just one more PC configuration
• syngrog66 11mo ago
  The author fundamentally fails to understand the attractions and benefits of console gaming systems in the first place.
• sim7c00 11mo ago
  i see a lot of complaints about certain games (windows / kernel-anti-cheat) not working. Consoles have always had exclusive titles. Windows also has them now via this anti-cheat stuff. This changes litterally nothing. Also, you can even install windows on the box. it's one of its selling points actually... if you really want to... kernel level anti-cheat is generally not even needed, so perhaps those companies will now consider rolling proper anti-cheat themselves rather than third-party rubbish that no one asked for. What i also like about this console development is that it might open the door to other smaller players creating consoles in the form of mini-PC with linux and a gaming layer on there. maybe there will be (oem?)partner for valve that make more beefy machines, machines with alternate OSes (windows + skin) etc. its a different angle that will open up many things hopefully. make it less exclusive market between essentially 3 parties.
• amne 11mo ago
  Anyone familiar with how they're running x86 on a snapdragon? I'm more interested in that hitting your regular android phone .. think retroarch but you can play hades 2.
  • opyate 11mo ago
    This is all I know: https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX https://github.com/FEX-Emu/FEX
  • doubled112 11mo ago
    This exists already for Android with Winlator, GameHub, and others.
• pzo 11mo ago
  what I wish this device had: 1) front speaker instead of this magnetic panel that is only for esthetic 2) wireless charging pad on top 3) home router functionality - just attach 4g modem to usb-a 4) matter hub for smart home They could advertise you getting 7in1 devices for the same price: - game console - smart speaker like alexa - smart tv (miracast, google cast, airplay) - smart home hub for matter devices - home router - wireless charging pad - mini home server (private cloud, home backup, vpn, pihole) Then with software wish it could easily have app store like umbrel: https://umbrel.com https://umbrel.com
• mschuster91 11mo ago
  Something I haven't seen discussed at all is HDCP compliance. Of course, games don't need that - I'd say that every game studio is aware that without streamers, you don't sell games, and streamers can't stream when HDCP gets in their way. But for the use case of a home theater? PS4 and 5 as well as some Xbox varieties can do 4K Netflix [1], no issues. Installing Windows, I'd guess that's fine too. But Steam OS? Nope. Anything too "open" gets the boot, including Android if you dare root your device, Widevine L1 refuses to work as the TEE doesn't reveal the keys if it detects an unlocked bootloader. [1] https://help.netflix.com/de/node/23888 https://help.netflix.com/de/node/23888 [2] https://help.netflix.com/de/node/23889 https://help.netflix.com/de/node/23889
  • walletdrainer 11mo ago
    FWIW, you do not need an unlocked bootloader to root an Android device.
• junglistguy 11mo ago
  [dead]
• brees504 11mo ago
  Releasing a box that cannot play any multiplayer or sports games is so silly.
• pkilgore 11mo ago
  If it doesn't play GTA 6 or CoD or whatever sports games are cool these days it won't win, but it sure looks interesting.
• zamalek 11mo ago
  The largest hurdle that a Steam console will face isn't kernel-level anti-cheats or somesuch. The real problem is far more idiotic: platform exclusives. Console gamers stereotypically care that their platform has a game that others do not, I have no idea how the reasoning works, but exclusives are a major talking point for OEMs and gamers alike. While PC likely has the most exclusives by a ridiculously large margin, it probably has the fewest AAA exclusives.
  • giraffe_lady 11mo ago
    > I have no idea how the reasoning works The reasoning works like this: I want to play that game. hth
    • zamalek 11mo ago
      That does not, in fact, help. Exclusives not releases. Why care that a game is not accessible on a different platform.
• devinprater 11mo ago
  Steam has even added accessibility to their machines. Sure it's just Orca and ESpeak TTS, but I mean Steam Big Picture works.
• guluarte 11mo ago
  the problem with valve is that at least in mexico I have never seen a steam deck on display, while xbox, switch, playstation are everywhere and online the markup price from resellers is too high
• baby 11mo ago
  Ive used my steamdeck much more than my switch 2, but I still can't play competitive multiplayers on the deck, so it is clearly a console and not a "PC gaming" experience
• phplovesong 11mo ago
  SteamOS is handheld only right? What they need is a Xbox/PS alternative, you can plug in to a screen (tv/monitor) and optionally use a mouse/keyboard (valve has some huge FPS titles, like counter strike) for games that you cant play with a controller (usually competitive fps titles).
  • hiccuphippo 11mo ago
    They just announced exactly what you are asking for https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404
  • Jnr 11mo ago
    SteamOS is not a handheld. It is an OS. And did you even open the link?
  • deleted 11mo ago
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  • xattt 11mo ago
    One thing that came out of the HTPC “wars” of the 2000s and 2010s was that mobile/handheld UI were more suited for the 10-foot interface, versus full-blown computers like Windows MCE.
• venom2001viper 11mo ago
  So this will only play pc games?
  • reanimated 11mo ago
    Yeah, only millions of them
• vintermann 11mo ago
  Maybe a bit early to call it, but I'm hoping for it as well.
• Snowfield9571 11mo ago
  I think this article makes one assumption that isn't correct. "This means that even though Valve will be selling this hardware at a loss..." From the reviews I have read, Valve is not planning on doing this. They are not doing an Xbox type of deal where games are overpriced and console is cheap. If I am not mistaken, I got this information from the LTT review where they talked with Valve about this directly.
  • snvzz 11mo ago
    Honestly, if I was Valve, I wouldn't just sell it at a loss, but I would also bundle some store credit. Getting new people into the Steam ecosystem should be worth losing a bit through the machine sales, with long term thinking.
• enbugger 11mo ago
  Random guy excessively overusing mango pics and making bold statements is definitely worth attention
• aidenn0 11mo ago
  I just hope a 10' user-interface for the popular streaming services for Linux might come out of this. I switched away from Kodi as my STB exclusively because of how much a PITA it was to use streaming services from it.
• jeffwask 11mo ago
  Personally, I am very much over paying Sony and X-Box a monthly fee to "play games online" in 2025. I bowed out of the last console generation, but I would be up for a small form factor multimedia PC that made may Steam library accessible on my TV.
• flux3125 11mo ago
  Isn't Steam Machine just a glorified PC? What am I missing? Can't I just plug my PC on the TV and install SteamOS on it?
  • Codazoa 11mo ago
    It has CEC for a more seamless console like experience on the TV. You won't be able to do that with a regular PC.
• poulpy123 11mo ago
  while I would like them to succeed, I'm really not convinced it will work. The steam deck is an unexpected success but I don't think it sold at the level of the nintendo switch. And more importantly it was providing something unique but the GabeBox will compete with cheaper and more established consoles on one side and windows PC providing a better experience with steam on the other side
• veunes 11mo ago
  If Valve nails the price point, this could be a real shift and not just for gaming, but for how people think about "consoles" vs PCs
• tracker1 11mo ago
  I think it will largely come down to price and DRM support from the AAA studios for multiplayer gaming and media apps. On the former, at $400 with one controller it will probably sell well, at over $600 I think more people might choose a PS5 instead. With regards to DRM, it doesn't have to be as restrictive as Windows' versions, but there needs to be some cooperative effort with the game studios, and the media companies as more people expect to be able to stream Netflix/AppleTV/HBO etc. from these devices on top of gaming. As gaming only, the most popular games tend to have a multiplayer aspect and thus far haven't been cooperative with functioning under Proton... there are solutions, but it's a matter of getting studio buyin and the effort to make it happen. Without these, it will be a niche product and may still sell well, just not gain anything near what the consoles achieve in terms of sales.
• Fire-Dragon-DoL 11mo ago
  Please win. This is the first system with the ability to stop the walled garden nightmares that are consoles.
• Fire-Dragon-DoL 11mo ago
  This is often overlooked, but I'll bring this up: When I buy a Steam console, I have more than 1000 games available for that console the moment it lands in my living room. If I buy a ps5, I have 0.