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Largest cargo sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing

397 points by defrost 1y ago

aerostable_slug 1y ago
> The 136-metre-long vessel had to rely partly on its auxiliary motor and its remaining sail after the aft sail was damaged in a storm shortly after departure. Well, that's a bummer. That said, this does seem the way of the future. We just need to either figure out maintenance robots and/or find a way to keep human crew happy on long, slow voyages across the Pacific.
- rdl 1y ago
  The rigid aerofoil sails seem more maintenance-free. Some of those are inflatable as well.
- aidenn0 1y ago
  Apparently late 19th to 20th century wind cargo ships had their crew essentially subsidized by the fact that some countries (IIRC in Scandinavia?) required commercial sailing experience to get a pilot's license. For bulk cargo (e.g. grain or guano) the economies worked out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron-hulled_sailing_ship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron-hulled_sailing_ship
  - bergie 1y ago
    These trips happened all the way to late 1940s. Here's a good book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Grain_Race https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Grain_Race If you get the chance, the Pommern is a beautifully preserved ship from that era in Mariehamn's excellent maritime museum.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  > or find a way to keep human crew happy on long, slow voyages across the Pacific. The few people I know who pursued jobs on boats did so because they liked being out at sea, away from land. Combine that with the modern availability of high speed internet via Starlink and entertainment is not a problem.
  - HardwareLust 1y ago
    Spent 13 years at sea, loved every minute. I actually liked it better before phones and Internet came onboard.
    - Mistletoe 1y ago
      What did you do with your time and enjoy?
      - HardwareLust 1y ago
        Work out, read, video games, watch movies, play cards or chess, etc. Plenty to do!
  - jacquesm 1y ago
    > The few people I know who pursued jobs on boats did so because they liked being out at sea, away from land. Maybe it wasn't just the land they were getting away from.
    - ozim 1y ago
      Not sure if you ever been at full sea. I was once, well I wasn’t working just visiting but it was kind of outer world feeling. I lived by the sea my whole life so sea on its own was not much special for me but being on the ship anchored in the middle of water with no land in sight was just different.
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- waltbosz 1y ago
  > find a way to keep human crew happy on long, slow voyages across the Pacific. Makes me think of Rory Sutherland's ideas for getting passengers to be ok with a long ride duration on the Eurostar https://www.instagram.com/reel/C98_wbssLjG/ https://www.instagram.com/reel/C98_wbssLjG/
- nradov 1y ago
  You've got to be kidding. Using a fully sail powered cargo vessel is a PR stunt, not the way of the future. Regular motorized cargo vessels will probably use some form of sails to slightly reduce fuel burn on downwind legs but it's physically impossible to move huge volumes of cargo purely by sail power in an economical way. There just isn't enough energy in the wind.
  - jacquesm 1y ago
    That's both wrong and right at the same time. There is plenty of energy in the wind, but when it isn't blowing in a favorable direction for your journey it will cause you to have to considerably lengthen your trip or end up in places where you don't want to go. It also isn't as constant and/or reliable as a motor. But until a few hundred years ago wind was all we had, and there is no reason why you could not make a containership that is wind powered just like it used to be. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of hull that would be. When the wind is blowing, favorable direction or not and it exceeds your expectations you're going to find out that there is more energy in the wind than you are prepared to deal with. If you've ever been on a sailboat in a storm that is the last thing you would write.
    - nradov 1y ago
      Nonsense. Even if the wind is blowing the right direction it doesn't have enough energy to move a huge merchant vessel at economically viable speeds. Do you have any clue about the mass and drag involved with something like a 20000 TEU container ship? There is no magic hull shape which can ever make sail propulsion alone make sense. This is basic physics.
      - skylurk 1y ago
        Those same 20000 TEU container ships are famously susceptible to being blown about by winds when they loose power. The stronger argument is that wind is not consistent or reliable enough for logistics. At least, not without doing a lot of extra math. So I agree that sail propulsion alone won't happen at large, but it's an interesting question of how far in that direction commercial shipping can go with modern technology.
Aurornis 1y ago
I love that they're trying this. It appears the more practical goal might be retrofitting existing vessels with large sails to augment the motors, but making a point with a fully wind-powered vessel is a good show. Well, it would have been fully wind powered if not for the damaged sail. Good on them for sticking with the journey, though. I hope they keep running the vessel and get a few more fully wind powered journeys.
- defrost 1y ago
  I have a dim recollection of exactly this as a VC proposal likely put to YC in the past 24 months or so. I think the notion was to fit masts to existing container ship and stacks, and I gsve it scant attention as my intuition (I once studied actual civil/mech engineering prior to jumping ship for applied math) suggested masts are better as integral parts of ships rather than bolt on after thoughts. EDIT: Wingsails to reduce cargo ship fuel consumption (April 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35426482 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35426482 I’m Joseph, and along with Arpan and Bailey we are the founders of OutSail Shipping. We’re building a sail the size of a 747 that rolls up into a shipping container. https://outsailshipping.com/ https://outsailshipping.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/OutSail-Shipping/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/OutSail-Shipping/ When deployed, it will generate thrust from the wind to reduce the fuel consumption of a cargo ship. An array of these devices will reduce fuel consumption on ships by up to 20%. These sails are easily stowed and removed to cause no interference with cargo operations. Here’s a short video showing our prototype: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUpVqzpym54 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUpVqzpym54 Not quite as I remembered .. kite sails, et al. are a good idea, I'm still a bit torn by the physics of a container deployed boom extension sail and the thrust transmission to the ship. Still, I haven't modeled it, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. EDIT2: Both links appear dead, so I guess that was a swing and a miss. Still, good to see such ideas pursued. EDIT3: Also related 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat (April 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40022801 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40022801
  - tengwar2 1y ago
    This is an area I have some peripheral involvement with. For retrofitted sails on bulkers, the figure of 10% saving in fuel is the usual one mentioned rather than 20%. However given the long life of ships, there is much more interest in retrofit than in new build. You mention container ships. I haven't seen anything explicit on these, and I think the reason is probably that they cruise much faster than bulkers and tankers, which means the potential savings from sail is smaller. I would have thought 20% optimistic even for a new-build.
barbazoo 1y ago
Made me think of this a couple months back https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/apr/11/shipping-companies-pay-carbon-dioxide-produced-by-vessels https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/apr/11/shipping...
ForHackernews 1y ago
There are even more crazy steampunk ideas out there, like pulling ships with giant high-altitude kites https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/giant-kite-sails-21528-ton-ship-atlantic-ocean https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/giant-kite-sai...
- HardwareLust 1y ago
  Cool link, thanks! Unfortunately they went bankrupt and the tech now belongs to what was their first and only customer, K Line.
  - Epa095 1y ago
    That's such a disappointment, I always had higher faith in the kites than the sails. Just seems easier to retrofit on existing ships witouth taking too much of the cargo capacity. But are you sure they are bankrupt? The Internet claims "The company says the purpose of the acquisition, for which the price was not reported, is to strengthen the development and commercialization of “Seawing,” the automated kite system". That might be bs of course. There also seems to be anther company trying it out, https://cargokite.com/ https://cargokite.com/
    - HardwareLust 1y ago
      https://www.offshore-energy.biz/k-line-buys-out-kite-manufacturer-airseas/ https://www.offshore-energy.biz/k-line-buys-out-kite-manufac... They are still developing the technology: https://www.offshore-energy.biz/k-line-automated-kite-system-development-enters-next-phase/ https://www.offshore-energy.biz/k-line-automated-kite-system...
fjd 1y ago
Thought I may go see it in person but looks like it’s about half way home already. https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:9641729/mmsi:228472900/imo:1021829/vessel:NEOLINER_ORIGIN https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:96...
fHr 1y ago
like so much smaller then biggest conventional ones irrelevant
moron4hire 1y ago
This is just an unresearched idea so no for of feasibility, but what about helical windmills to generate electricity to augment power to a motor, ala hybrid gasoline/electric cars?
- wffurr 1y ago
  More efficient is something that directly provides thrust like a flettner rotor.
  - titannet 1y ago
    E-Ship 1 exists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Ship_1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Ship_1 They report fuel savings up to 25%, so it may be viable for some ships types and voyages. But a long way from propelling the whole ship.
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- Towaway69 1y ago
  It’s probably one of the best understood methods of crossing oceans, just that all the knowledge has been forgotten. Recall how slaves were transported from Africa to the Americas. How gold was transported from the South America to Europe and sugar from the Caribbean. And not forgetting how opium was transported to China by the Europeans from India. So transporting stuff by sail is definitely not “unresearched” rather it is a forgotten technology.
  - moron4hire 1y ago
    You have misread my comment. It was a preamble to the rest of my post, not a criticism of the original idea.
mlhpdx 1y ago
Fun fact: the fastest way to get around the world by boat is on a sailboat. Wild, but true.
- aerostable_slug 1y ago
  Faster than an American attack submarine or aircraft carrier?
  - mlhpdx 1y ago
    In a word, probably (but without documented speed runs who knows?). Circumnavigation is a longer voyage than those craft would travel in one go, and the stops would increase their transit time. Even without that it would be a close competition with the latest class of racing sailboats that are able able to maintain very similar speeds, and the next generation will be decidedly faster. Things have changed.
    - aerostable_slug 1y ago
      American submarines and aircraft carriers are nuclear-powered. They can sustain over 30 knots without stopping effectively indefinitely. They make their own water and, where needed, breathing air. The only thing they need to stop for is food, and they have enough aboard to circumnavigate the globe easily. It would be really hard to sustain an average speed of 30 knots in a sailing vessel for the entire journey. Certainly you'd need the assistance of the wind deities of your choice. Central to commercial travel by wind is the predictability or lack thereof with wind power. It would be tough to run a tight supply chain when you don't know when one's ship will arrive within a reasonable window. For that reason, I think the future can't really be purely wind-powered for most commodities, it's just not predictable enough to build schedules around.
      - mlhpdx 1y ago
        That’s correct, but look up the Gitana 17. > The Gitana 17 is a 100ft trimaran designed to foil offshore at sustained speeds of 45 knots or more. Also, 1964, the all-nuclear Task Force One, including the USS Enterprise, completed a high-speed circumnavigation in 65 days. The winner of the Vende Globe did it in 64. And that was solo (one person on board).
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
“The Neoliner Origin is designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 80 to 90 per cent compared to conventional diesel-powered cargo ships.” Is it cheaper?
- bloudermilk 1y ago
  Are you pricing in the externalities of GHGs?
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    No. If it isn’t cheaper it isn’t on the board for the next decade or two outside niche routes. The hard part is in making it economically viable. We already know sailboats work.
    - bloudermilk 1y ago
      That’s a decision we, as a civilization, need to make. I personally hope we manage to enact transnational policies that effectively price environmental and social externalities in my lifetime. Or else witness “free market” capitalism continue to degrade our planet and the lives of millions of less privileged people.
      - SJC_Hacker 1y ago
        > That’s a decision we, as a civilization, need to make. I personally hope we manage to enact transnational policies that effectively price environmental and social externalities in my lifetime. Or else witness “free market” capitalism continue to degrade our planet and the lives of millions of less privileged people. Name one decision that the entire human civilization has ever consciously made
        throwaway198846 1y ago
        Banning CFCs
        1y ago
TheMagicHorsey 1y ago
This seems to be a tiny vessel ... just 5000 tons of cargo. Most container ships carry more like 200,000 tons of cargo. Can sails scale to carry that much cargo? If not, I fear the economics will not work out for sails alone. Perhaps sails plus something else makes more sense?
- gerdesj 1y ago
  Sails scale. You can make them out of steel if necessary - the wind does not care what it pushes.
  - therein 1y ago
    It's not like the issue is with the windspeed. I'd imagine you'd only need stronger materials if the windspeed goes up, it's not like the sails break if the ship is too heavy. It just would get accelerated less by the amount of force captured by the sails. At least in my mental model of things. The only case in which you'd need to make the sails themselves stronger should be if the wind speed is somehow scaled.
- 0xbadcafebee 1y ago
  You can put a helluva lot of sails on a ship. The Preußen (1902) had 73,200 sqft of sail area on a ship 482 ft long. The Very Large Container (VLC) ships that hold 200,000 tons are over 1,300 ft long. And wind is a very, very strong force (it damaged these mechanical sails!). You could definitely make a VLC ship that could be powered by sails, in theory. But wind's biggest downside, besides it sometimes being too strong, is it can completely stop. That and the complexity of sails, and its potential for failure, would probably not make it economically viable. Even if it was technically cheaper, the inconsistency and potentially poor performance would lead customers to continue chartering motorized vessels. There's a reason everyone switched from sail to steam.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    It's not one or the other; we can build vessels with sails and 'steam'. > There's a reason everyone switched from sail to steam. One reason was, they thought the climate impact cost zero. Also, technology was much different then.
readthenotes1 1y ago
"World’s Largest Cargo Sailboat Completes Historic First Atlantic Crossing Using Auxillary Engine" Fixed it. I am pretty sure there is a reason why the very fast Clippers were replaced by steam engines 150 years ago. I guess we can learn why again.
- gpm 1y ago
  Crew requirements? And we can learn that technology has change in the last 150 years so those same requirements no longer exist. No ones suggesting building a sailing ship like they did 150 years ago. Just that the wind is still an interesting source of power.
turpialito 1y ago
Napkin calculation: The Neoliner Origin cruises at 11 kts (20Km/h). "Straight line" on Google Earth from Saint-Nazaire to NY is about 5300 Km, so it crosses the Atlantic in 18 days. The Emma Maersk (which I am aware plies a different route, but just for comparison's sake) cruises at 25kts (46Km/h) and therefore takes about 5 days.
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  I wonder what the savings is on fuel cost. I mean there are a lot of things that would be interesting if shipping costs were slashed — two more weeks is not important.
  - turpialito 1y ago
    It is when you're shipping perishables. And market trends could fade away during crossing time. The cargo could be worthless before it arrives at port.
- deepsun 1y ago
  I worked with maritime shipping folks, and they always say "We don't care how slow it is, but we care A LOT to estimate the time it takes right". The logistical chain is long, so delaying one link breaks the whole chain, and that's costly.
  - ainiriand 1y ago
    This is one thing my company tries to solve!
  - contrarian1234 1y ago
    that doesn't really make any sense. You'd just overestimate the time and if you arrived ahead of schedule you'd wait out at sea for the "correct" time
    - dvratil 1y ago
      But that's extra time when the ship is sitting idle, while it could've already been on its way with new cargo, making more money.
theendisney 1y ago
11 knots seems a good speed.
- infinet 1y ago
  Indeed, it's a very impressive speed. I have been on few ships of similar size as this sailboat. With their huge, extremely loud, hot, and diesel hunger engine they usually cruise at less than 15 knots. Container ships are outliers. Not sure how much more fuel they burn when sailing at 25 knots vs 15 knots. But they use cheaper heavy oil so perhaps are less sensitive to fuel cost. Also the same speed feels faster at sea than on the land because waves make sailing like drive off-road. A small boat can feel like fly at 30 knots. 11 knots makes a joyful ride.
ofalkaed 1y ago
As someone whose goal in life is to be blown about the oceans by the wind, I have mixed feelings about this. With the "traditional" freighter I would have the right of way, my being a sailboat under the wisdom of the wind, they have to make allowances for me and change course, but things are different when that freighter is also under the wisdom of the wind. The same goes for things like offshore wind power, my life is made more difficult because most people expect their home to be 70F when it is 60F outside and 60F when it is 70F outside, anything else would incur undue hardship. It is a complex situation, should I be penalized for wanting to live a life that has little or no environmental impact at cost of those who want to live in reasonable comfort while being a part of/contributing to, society? Probably not but I can't help but wonder about what happened to the first 'R' of the three R's (reduce, reuse and recycle), no one seems to reduce anymore unless technology gives them a way to do it without any inconvenience no matter how small that inconvenience is.
- Unearned5161 1y ago
  I think "reduce" has always been pipe dream by the de-growth sector. At its core I'm not convinced that humans can ever willfully engage in managed decline. When I say this I mean societies, large groups, cities, etc. Not individuals. De-growth has a serious scaling issue. It's fundamentally incompatible with the bedrock of why humans come together.
  - ofalkaed 1y ago
    Maybe? I don't think this is beyond societies, but it does require society to expect it. The idea of reducing had an effect on society back in the 80s and into the 90s, people did reduce, but it didn't last. This is not "de-growth," unless you think growth is a measure of the number of people who live a life a leisure.
- agentultra 1y ago
  A freighter is always the stand on vessel when you’re sailing. They don’t have the turning radius to even try!
NedF 1y ago
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BurningFrog 1y ago
This ship carries 5300 tonnes of cargo. The average transoceanic container ship carries around 150,000 to 250,000 tonnes.
- adriand 1y ago
  Could you have autonomous ships this size, like a waymo for the ocean?
  - gtowey 1y ago
    What would be the point? Ships are complex machines and the ocean is an incredibly harsh and unforgiving environment. You would need crew to simply maintain the ship while underway and fix things that break (which pretty much always happens). Next, these ships can be downright dangerous for other, smaller ships. It has happened before that large cargo ships have killed people on sailboats when they didn't keep an adequate lookout. I wouldn't trust an autonomous system to have enough accuracy to avoid running over other boats.
    - jopsen 1y ago
      Also if the ship is large enough to send economically feasible, the value of the cargo is so huge that a few crew won't affect the bill.
      - hgomersall 1y ago
        There are plenty of reports of crews being overworked and underslept, so clearly some shipping companies still cut corners as regards staffing.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    I read about the US Navy's work on autonomous ships. One big challenge is the lack maintenance. Sailors can perform periodic and break-fix maintenance throughout the journey, and if something unpredictable happens, they can handle it. The autonomous vessels need far higher robustness, not only to function without maintenance for months at a time, but reliably enough that few of them end up lost or stranded at sea.
nullhole 1y ago
They have a passenger service too! €3200 for France <-> Baltimore, 13 day trip. But with that you get three meals a day, a decent looking cabin, private bathroom, private balcony, and internet service (though how solid the connection is / what surcharges there may be is a question). ~€250/d doesn't sound too bad, and you could get work done along the way. Kind of sounds nice... https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/ https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/ https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/transatlantic-a-bord/ https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/transatlantic-a-b...
- dhosek 1y ago
  The first thing I thought when I saw the article was, I wonder if they have passenger service.
  - sillyfluke 1y ago
    Due to longterm conditioning from reading tech article headlines and discussions, my brain now autocompletes the word "cargo" to "cargo cult" every time it sees it in a tech context. So I read "Largest cargo cult sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing" and was immediately intrigued...
  - namibj 1y ago
    Many freighters have space for the 12 passengers they're allowed to carry before they get reclassified to passenger ship with all the post-Titanic SOLAS requirements those incur. The first 12 however are easy, they self-select to be low-maintenance, they just get their breakfast/lunch/dinner portion from the ship's cook, and have their cabin. A little electricity, reasonable running water, and they're contend. Essentially a hotel room plus partaking the staff dinner/in-House-catering. Most people just can't handle the boredom these days, and many don't have that many days to spare, either.
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      The passenger capacity is mostly expected to be used by people related to the shipping industry, basically repositioning people the same way airlines do. Like you'll have two guys being repositioned and another guy will be there with a clipboard and tasked with something.
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thelastgallon 1y ago
I wonder why we don’t have nuclear cargo/container ships.
- dmoy 1y ago
  There is at least one This article gives a decent overview though: https://thebulletin.org/2024/09/why-nuclear-powered-commercial-ships-are-a-bad-idea/ https://thebulletin.org/2024/09/why-nuclear-powered-commerci...
- deleted 1y ago
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- contrarian1234 1y ago
  Or a tug to pull N cargo ships during calm seas
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  There have been four nuclear powered cargo ships built and operated, but none of the former are currently in active service.
- wazoox 1y ago
  It's coming : https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/thorium-powered-nuclear-cargo-ship https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/thorium-po...
- Epa095 1y ago
  Probably the same reason for why there is not more nuklear power on land as well. Cost.
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    And crew training, certifcation, etc. Not to diminish the skills required to run a conventional ship powerplant but running a nuclear reactor would take years more training and education and also command higher pay. The ship would also be a prime target for pirates/terrorists.
froh 1y ago
List of large sailing vessels - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_large_sailing_vessels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_large_sailing_vessels not the longest but top notch tonnage the French Wikipedia lists it at 13 278 GT https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliner_Origin https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliner_Origin and
sandworm101 1y ago
>> He added that wind propulsion offers an advantage because it is a free, widely available, and predictable energy source Written by someone who obviously has never owned a sailboat.
krasin 1y ago
In the meantime, China is constructing nuclear cargo ships ([1], [2]) that will be able to transport 14,000 containers at full throttle (200MW) without a need to refuel for years. Obviously, it's still not done, and yet to prove to be profitable, but their reactor design does suggest that they have a chance to make it work and replace a lot of CO2 emissions. 1. Original article, but paywall: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3331031/china-unveils-power-thorium-reactor-worlds-largest-cargo-ship?module=perpetual_scroll_0&pgtype=article https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3331031/chin... 2. Derivative (+based commentary), but no paywall: https://www.chosun.com/english/world-en/2025/11/07/MND3QUGUTZFNVANSQ5UQBT2F4Q/ https://www.chosun.com/english/world-en/2025/11/07/MND3QUGUT...
- SirHumphrey 1y ago
  Nuclear ship propulsion is not a new technology so I have no doubt they will succeed. But where this will and all previous attempts have (see: N.S. Savannah) failed is that ports do not want to accept such ships, because of environmental and insurance issues.
  - pmontra 1y ago
    China owns some ports abroad and probably they have enough leverage in some of those countries to let their ships dock there.
  - mmooss 1y ago
    > Nuclear ship propulsion is not a new technology Have they been used in for-profit scenarios? Military ships and ice breakers don't have to turn a profit.
- 4gotunameagain 1y ago
  How ironic, a huge "EMBRACING NET-ZERO FUTURE" logo on the behemoth filled with cheap plastic crap that will chill out in landfills for generations to come.
  - mcdonje 1y ago
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shevy-java 1y ago
> The ship can carry up to 5,300 tonnes of cargo Ok but ... what was it carrying? I mean there may be a government active right now that is bombing civilian ships, in particular when they carry fish.
- yard2010 1y ago
  That sounds fishy!
michelb 1y ago
Looks cool! What's the latest innovation in 'sails' (shape/tech) development? And what would it take to scale a cargo sailboat to take >100k tonnes load?
Boglander 1y ago
Bring back the Onedin Line.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2IuPjpAHnI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2IuPjpAHnI
Boglander 1y ago
Bring back the Onedin Line...even just for the theme tune. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2IuPjpAHnI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2IuPjpAHnI
2b3a51 1y ago
Just wondering if there is any potential for coasting with these smaller ships? Replacing lorries for port to port travel say in med or along Atlantic coast of Europe. Coasting ships were the main cargo transport before trains and for some time after in the UK. Even as late as 1950s a fair percentage of cargo came in and out of London on relatively small ships from UK ports and Europe mainland. Before containerisation of course but I'm not sure it was containers that killed that traffic off. I suspect it may have been motorways and lorries.
- ViewTrick1002 1y ago
  The problem is always multi-modality. Switching modes of transport increases cost and complexity. The volumes also needs to be very large for it to be worth it. Switching from just point to point trucking to truck -> ship -> truck needs to have extremely large efficiency gains in the ship portion to be worth it.
  - ungreased0675 1y ago
    We’d need to automate cargo handling, which is something the longshoremen union fights very hard against.
marooningrid 1y ago
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georgehaake 1y ago
the ministry for the future

397 points by defrost 1y ago

> The 136-metre-long vessel had to rely partly on its auxiliary motor and its remaining sail after the aft sail was damaged in a storm shortly after departure. Well, that's a bummer. That said, this does seem the way of the future. We just need to either figure out maintenance robots and/or find a way to keep human crew happy on long, slow voyages across the Pacific.

rdl 1y ago
The rigid aerofoil sails seem more maintenance-free. Some of those are inflatable as well.
aidenn0 1y ago
Apparently late 19th to 20th century wind cargo ships had their crew essentially subsidized by the fact that some countries (IIRC in Scandinavia?) required commercial sailing experience to get a pilot's license. For bulk cargo (e.g. grain or guano) the economies worked out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron-hulled_sailing_ship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron-hulled_sailing_ship
- bergie 1y ago
  These trips happened all the way to late 1940s. Here's a good book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Grain_Race https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Grain_Race If you get the chance, the Pommern is a beautifully preserved ship from that era in Mariehamn's excellent maritime museum.
Aurornis 1y ago
> or find a way to keep human crew happy on long, slow voyages across the Pacific. The few people I know who pursued jobs on boats did so because they liked being out at sea, away from land. Combine that with the modern availability of high speed internet via Starlink and entertainment is not a problem.
- HardwareLust 1y ago
  Spent 13 years at sea, loved every minute. I actually liked it better before phones and Internet came onboard.
  - Mistletoe 1y ago
    What did you do with your time and enjoy?
    - HardwareLust 1y ago
      Work out, read, video games, watch movies, play cards or chess, etc. Plenty to do!
- jacquesm 1y ago
  > The few people I know who pursued jobs on boats did so because they liked being out at sea, away from land. Maybe it wasn't just the land they were getting away from.
  - ozim 1y ago
    Not sure if you ever been at full sea. I was once, well I wasn’t working just visiting but it was kind of outer world feeling. I lived by the sea my whole life so sea on its own was not much special for me but being on the ship anchored in the middle of water with no land in sight was just different.
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waltbosz 1y ago
> find a way to keep human crew happy on long, slow voyages across the Pacific. Makes me think of Rory Sutherland's ideas for getting passengers to be ok with a long ride duration on the Eurostar https://www.instagram.com/reel/C98_wbssLjG/ https://www.instagram.com/reel/C98_wbssLjG/
nradov 1y ago
You've got to be kidding. Using a fully sail powered cargo vessel is a PR stunt, not the way of the future. Regular motorized cargo vessels will probably use some form of sails to slightly reduce fuel burn on downwind legs but it's physically impossible to move huge volumes of cargo purely by sail power in an economical way. There just isn't enough energy in the wind.
- jacquesm 1y ago
  That's both wrong and right at the same time. There is plenty of energy in the wind, but when it isn't blowing in a favorable direction for your journey it will cause you to have to considerably lengthen your trip or end up in places where you don't want to go. It also isn't as constant and/or reliable as a motor. But until a few hundred years ago wind was all we had, and there is no reason why you could not make a containership that is wind powered just like it used to be. It's going to be interesting to see what kind of hull that would be. When the wind is blowing, favorable direction or not and it exceeds your expectations you're going to find out that there is more energy in the wind than you are prepared to deal with. If you've ever been on a sailboat in a storm that is the last thing you would write.
  - nradov 1y ago
    Nonsense. Even if the wind is blowing the right direction it doesn't have enough energy to move a huge merchant vessel at economically viable speeds. Do you have any clue about the mass and drag involved with something like a 20000 TEU container ship? There is no magic hull shape which can ever make sail propulsion alone make sense. This is basic physics.
    - skylurk 1y ago
      Those same 20000 TEU container ships are famously susceptible to being blown about by winds when they loose power. The stronger argument is that wind is not consistent or reliable enough for logistics. At least, not without doing a lot of extra math. So I agree that sail propulsion alone won't happen at large, but it's an interesting question of how far in that direction commercial shipping can go with modern technology.

Aurornis 1y ago

I love that they're trying this. It appears the more practical goal might be retrofitting existing vessels with large sails to augment the motors, but making a point with a fully wind-powered vessel is a good show. Well, it would have been fully wind powered if not for the damaged sail. Good on them for sticking with the journey, though. I hope they keep running the vessel and get a few more fully wind powered journeys.

defrost 1y ago
I have a dim recollection of exactly this as a VC proposal likely put to YC in the past 24 months or so. I think the notion was to fit masts to existing container ship and stacks, and I gsve it scant attention as my intuition (I once studied actual civil/mech engineering prior to jumping ship for applied math) suggested masts are better as integral parts of ships rather than bolt on after thoughts. EDIT: Wingsails to reduce cargo ship fuel consumption (April 2023) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35426482 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35426482 I’m Joseph, and along with Arpan and Bailey we are the founders of OutSail Shipping. We’re building a sail the size of a 747 that rolls up into a shipping container. https://outsailshipping.com/ https://outsailshipping.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/OutSail-Shipping/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/OutSail-Shipping/ When deployed, it will generate thrust from the wind to reduce the fuel consumption of a cargo ship. An array of these devices will reduce fuel consumption on ships by up to 20%. These sails are easily stowed and removed to cause no interference with cargo operations. Here’s a short video showing our prototype: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUpVqzpym54 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUpVqzpym54 Not quite as I remembered .. kite sails, et al. are a good idea, I'm still a bit torn by the physics of a container deployed boom extension sail and the thrust transmission to the ship. Still, I haven't modeled it, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. EDIT2: Both links appear dead, so I guess that was a swing and a miss. Still, good to see such ideas pursued. EDIT3: Also related 350 tons of of chocolate and wine arrive on world’s largest cargo sailboat (April 2024) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40022801 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40022801
- tengwar2 1y ago
  This is an area I have some peripheral involvement with. For retrofitted sails on bulkers, the figure of 10% saving in fuel is the usual one mentioned rather than 20%. However given the long life of ships, there is much more interest in retrofit than in new build. You mention container ships. I haven't seen anything explicit on these, and I think the reason is probably that they cruise much faster than bulkers and tankers, which means the potential savings from sail is smaller. I would have thought 20% optimistic even for a new-build.

barbazoo 1y ago

Made me think of this a couple months back https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/apr/11/shipping-companies-pay-carbon-dioxide-produced-by-vessels https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/apr/11/shipping...

ForHackernews 1y ago

There are even more crazy steampunk ideas out there, like pulling ships with giant high-altitude kites https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/giant-kite-sails-21528-ton-ship-atlantic-ocean https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/giant-kite-sai...

HardwareLust 1y ago
Cool link, thanks! Unfortunately they went bankrupt and the tech now belongs to what was their first and only customer, K Line.
- Epa095 1y ago
  That's such a disappointment, I always had higher faith in the kites than the sails. Just seems easier to retrofit on existing ships witouth taking too much of the cargo capacity. But are you sure they are bankrupt? The Internet claims "The company says the purpose of the acquisition, for which the price was not reported, is to strengthen the development and commercialization of “Seawing,” the automated kite system". That might be bs of course. There also seems to be anther company trying it out, https://cargokite.com/ https://cargokite.com/
  - HardwareLust 1y ago
    https://www.offshore-energy.biz/k-line-buys-out-kite-manufacturer-airseas/ https://www.offshore-energy.biz/k-line-buys-out-kite-manufac... They are still developing the technology: https://www.offshore-energy.biz/k-line-automated-kite-system-development-enters-next-phase/ https://www.offshore-energy.biz/k-line-automated-kite-system...

fjd 1y ago

Thought I may go see it in person but looks like it’s about half way home already. https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:9641729/mmsi:228472900/imo:1021829/vessel:NEOLINER_ORIGIN https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:96...

fHr 1y ago

like so much smaller then biggest conventional ones irrelevant

moron4hire 1y ago

This is just an unresearched idea so no for of feasibility, but what about helical windmills to generate electricity to augment power to a motor, ala hybrid gasoline/electric cars?

wffurr 1y ago
More efficient is something that directly provides thrust like a flettner rotor.
- titannet 1y ago
  E-Ship 1 exists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Ship_1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Ship_1 They report fuel savings up to 25%, so it may be viable for some ships types and voyages. But a long way from propelling the whole ship.
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Towaway69 1y ago
It’s probably one of the best understood methods of crossing oceans, just that all the knowledge has been forgotten. Recall how slaves were transported from Africa to the Americas. How gold was transported from the South America to Europe and sugar from the Caribbean. And not forgetting how opium was transported to China by the Europeans from India. So transporting stuff by sail is definitely not “unresearched” rather it is a forgotten technology.
- moron4hire 1y ago
  You have misread my comment. It was a preamble to the rest of my post, not a criticism of the original idea.

mlhpdx 1y ago

Fun fact: the fastest way to get around the world by boat is on a sailboat. Wild, but true.

aerostable_slug 1y ago
Faster than an American attack submarine or aircraft carrier?
- mlhpdx 1y ago
  In a word, probably (but without documented speed runs who knows?). Circumnavigation is a longer voyage than those craft would travel in one go, and the stops would increase their transit time. Even without that it would be a close competition with the latest class of racing sailboats that are able able to maintain very similar speeds, and the next generation will be decidedly faster. Things have changed.
  - aerostable_slug 1y ago
    American submarines and aircraft carriers are nuclear-powered. They can sustain over 30 knots without stopping effectively indefinitely. They make their own water and, where needed, breathing air. The only thing they need to stop for is food, and they have enough aboard to circumnavigate the globe easily. It would be really hard to sustain an average speed of 30 knots in a sailing vessel for the entire journey. Certainly you'd need the assistance of the wind deities of your choice. Central to commercial travel by wind is the predictability or lack thereof with wind power. It would be tough to run a tight supply chain when you don't know when one's ship will arrive within a reasonable window. For that reason, I think the future can't really be purely wind-powered for most commodities, it's just not predictable enough to build schedules around.
    - mlhpdx 1y ago
      That’s correct, but look up the Gitana 17. > The Gitana 17 is a 100ft trimaran designed to foil offshore at sustained speeds of 45 knots or more. Also, 1964, the all-nuclear Task Force One, including the USS Enterprise, completed a high-speed circumnavigation in 65 days. The winner of the Vende Globe did it in 64. And that was solo (one person on board).

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

“The Neoliner Origin is designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 80 to 90 per cent compared to conventional diesel-powered cargo ships.” Is it cheaper?

bloudermilk 1y ago
Are you pricing in the externalities of GHGs?
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  No. If it isn’t cheaper it isn’t on the board for the next decade or two outside niche routes. The hard part is in making it economically viable. We already know sailboats work.
  - bloudermilk 1y ago
    That’s a decision we, as a civilization, need to make. I personally hope we manage to enact transnational policies that effectively price environmental and social externalities in my lifetime. Or else witness “free market” capitalism continue to degrade our planet and the lives of millions of less privileged people.
    - SJC_Hacker 1y ago
      > That’s a decision we, as a civilization, need to make. I personally hope we manage to enact transnational policies that effectively price environmental and social externalities in my lifetime. Or else witness “free market” capitalism continue to degrade our planet and the lives of millions of less privileged people. Name one decision that the entire human civilization has ever consciously made
      - throwaway198846 1y ago
        Banning CFCs
      - 1y ago

TheMagicHorsey 1y ago

This seems to be a tiny vessel ... just 5000 tons of cargo. Most container ships carry more like 200,000 tons of cargo. Can sails scale to carry that much cargo? If not, I fear the economics will not work out for sails alone. Perhaps sails plus something else makes more sense?

gerdesj 1y ago
Sails scale. You can make them out of steel if necessary - the wind does not care what it pushes.
- therein 1y ago
  It's not like the issue is with the windspeed. I'd imagine you'd only need stronger materials if the windspeed goes up, it's not like the sails break if the ship is too heavy. It just would get accelerated less by the amount of force captured by the sails. At least in my mental model of things. The only case in which you'd need to make the sails themselves stronger should be if the wind speed is somehow scaled.
0xbadcafebee 1y ago
You can put a helluva lot of sails on a ship. The Preußen (1902) had 73,200 sqft of sail area on a ship 482 ft long. The Very Large Container (VLC) ships that hold 200,000 tons are over 1,300 ft long. And wind is a very, very strong force (it damaged these mechanical sails!). You could definitely make a VLC ship that could be powered by sails, in theory. But wind's biggest downside, besides it sometimes being too strong, is it can completely stop. That and the complexity of sails, and its potential for failure, would probably not make it economically viable. Even if it was technically cheaper, the inconsistency and potentially poor performance would lead customers to continue chartering motorized vessels. There's a reason everyone switched from sail to steam.
- mmooss 1y ago
  It's not one or the other; we can build vessels with sails and 'steam'. > There's a reason everyone switched from sail to steam. One reason was, they thought the climate impact cost zero. Also, technology was much different then.

readthenotes1 1y ago

"World’s Largest Cargo Sailboat Completes Historic First Atlantic Crossing Using Auxillary Engine" Fixed it. I am pretty sure there is a reason why the very fast Clippers were replaced by steam engines 150 years ago. I guess we can learn why again.

gpm 1y ago
Crew requirements? And we can learn that technology has change in the last 150 years so those same requirements no longer exist. No ones suggesting building a sailing ship like they did 150 years ago. Just that the wind is still an interesting source of power.

turpialito 1y ago

Napkin calculation: The Neoliner Origin cruises at 11 kts (20Km/h). "Straight line" on Google Earth from Saint-Nazaire to NY is about 5300 Km, so it crosses the Atlantic in 18 days. The Emma Maersk (which I am aware plies a different route, but just for comparison's sake) cruises at 25kts (46Km/h) and therefore takes about 5 days.

JKCalhoun 1y ago
I wonder what the savings is on fuel cost. I mean there are a lot of things that would be interesting if shipping costs were slashed — two more weeks is not important.
- turpialito 1y ago
  It is when you're shipping perishables. And market trends could fade away during crossing time. The cargo could be worthless before it arrives at port.
deepsun 1y ago
I worked with maritime shipping folks, and they always say "We don't care how slow it is, but we care A LOT to estimate the time it takes right". The logistical chain is long, so delaying one link breaks the whole chain, and that's costly.
- ainiriand 1y ago
  This is one thing my company tries to solve!
- contrarian1234 1y ago
  that doesn't really make any sense. You'd just overestimate the time and if you arrived ahead of schedule you'd wait out at sea for the "correct" time
  - dvratil 1y ago
    But that's extra time when the ship is sitting idle, while it could've already been on its way with new cargo, making more money.

theendisney 1y ago

11 knots seems a good speed.

infinet 1y ago
Indeed, it's a very impressive speed. I have been on few ships of similar size as this sailboat. With their huge, extremely loud, hot, and diesel hunger engine they usually cruise at less than 15 knots. Container ships are outliers. Not sure how much more fuel they burn when sailing at 25 knots vs 15 knots. But they use cheaper heavy oil so perhaps are less sensitive to fuel cost. Also the same speed feels faster at sea than on the land because waves make sailing like drive off-road. A small boat can feel like fly at 30 knots. 11 knots makes a joyful ride.

ofalkaed 1y ago

As someone whose goal in life is to be blown about the oceans by the wind, I have mixed feelings about this. With the "traditional" freighter I would have the right of way, my being a sailboat under the wisdom of the wind, they have to make allowances for me and change course, but things are different when that freighter is also under the wisdom of the wind. The same goes for things like offshore wind power, my life is made more difficult because most people expect their home to be 70F when it is 60F outside and 60F when it is 70F outside, anything else would incur undue hardship. It is a complex situation, should I be penalized for wanting to live a life that has little or no environmental impact at cost of those who want to live in reasonable comfort while being a part of/contributing to, society? Probably not but I can't help but wonder about what happened to the first 'R' of the three R's (reduce, reuse and recycle), no one seems to reduce anymore unless technology gives them a way to do it without any inconvenience no matter how small that inconvenience is.

Unearned5161 1y ago
I think "reduce" has always been pipe dream by the de-growth sector. At its core I'm not convinced that humans can ever willfully engage in managed decline. When I say this I mean societies, large groups, cities, etc. Not individuals. De-growth has a serious scaling issue. It's fundamentally incompatible with the bedrock of why humans come together.
- ofalkaed 1y ago
  Maybe? I don't think this is beyond societies, but it does require society to expect it. The idea of reducing had an effect on society back in the 80s and into the 90s, people did reduce, but it didn't last. This is not "de-growth," unless you think growth is a measure of the number of people who live a life a leisure.
agentultra 1y ago
A freighter is always the stand on vessel when you’re sailing. They don’t have the turning radius to even try!

NedF 1y ago

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BurningFrog 1y ago

This ship carries 5300 tonnes of cargo. The average transoceanic container ship carries around 150,000 to 250,000 tonnes.

adriand 1y ago
Could you have autonomous ships this size, like a waymo for the ocean?
- gtowey 1y ago
  What would be the point? Ships are complex machines and the ocean is an incredibly harsh and unforgiving environment. You would need crew to simply maintain the ship while underway and fix things that break (which pretty much always happens). Next, these ships can be downright dangerous for other, smaller ships. It has happened before that large cargo ships have killed people on sailboats when they didn't keep an adequate lookout. I wouldn't trust an autonomous system to have enough accuracy to avoid running over other boats.
  - jopsen 1y ago
    Also if the ship is large enough to send economically feasible, the value of the cargo is so huge that a few crew won't affect the bill.
    - hgomersall 1y ago
      There are plenty of reports of crews being overworked and underslept, so clearly some shipping companies still cut corners as regards staffing.
- mmooss 1y ago
  I read about the US Navy's work on autonomous ships. One big challenge is the lack maintenance. Sailors can perform periodic and break-fix maintenance throughout the journey, and if something unpredictable happens, they can handle it. The autonomous vessels need far higher robustness, not only to function without maintenance for months at a time, but reliably enough that few of them end up lost or stranded at sea.

nullhole 1y ago

They have a passenger service too! €3200 for France <-> Baltimore, 13 day trip. But with that you get three meals a day, a decent looking cabin, private bathroom, private balcony, and internet service (though how solid the connection is / what surcharges there may be is a question). ~€250/d doesn't sound too bad, and you could get work done along the way. Kind of sounds nice... https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/ https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/ https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/transatlantic-a-bord/ https://www.voilasailcoop.fr/transatlantic/transatlantic-a-b...

dhosek 1y ago
The first thing I thought when I saw the article was, I wonder if they have passenger service.
- sillyfluke 1y ago
  Due to longterm conditioning from reading tech article headlines and discussions, my brain now autocompletes the word "cargo" to "cargo cult" every time it sees it in a tech context. So I read "Largest cargo cult sailboat completes first Atlantic crossing" and was immediately intrigued...
- namibj 1y ago
  Many freighters have space for the 12 passengers they're allowed to carry before they get reclassified to passenger ship with all the post-Titanic SOLAS requirements those incur. The first 12 however are easy, they self-select to be low-maintenance, they just get their breakfast/lunch/dinner portion from the ship's cook, and have their cabin. A little electricity, reasonable running water, and they're contend. Essentially a hotel room plus partaking the staff dinner/in-House-catering. Most people just can't handle the boredom these days, and many don't have that many days to spare, either.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    The passenger capacity is mostly expected to be used by people related to the shipping industry, basically repositioning people the same way airlines do. Like you'll have two guys being repositioned and another guy will be there with a clipboard and tasked with something.

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thelastgallon 1y ago

I wonder why we don’t have nuclear cargo/container ships.

dmoy 1y ago
There is at least one This article gives a decent overview though: https://thebulletin.org/2024/09/why-nuclear-powered-commercial-ships-are-a-bad-idea/ https://thebulletin.org/2024/09/why-nuclear-powered-commerci...
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contrarian1234 1y ago
Or a tug to pull N cargo ships during calm seas
dragonwriter 1y ago
There have been four nuclear powered cargo ships built and operated, but none of the former are currently in active service.
wazoox 1y ago
It's coming : https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/thorium-powered-nuclear-cargo-ship https://interestingengineering.com/transportation/thorium-po...
Epa095 1y ago
Probably the same reason for why there is not more nuklear power on land as well. Cost.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  And crew training, certifcation, etc. Not to diminish the skills required to run a conventional ship powerplant but running a nuclear reactor would take years more training and education and also command higher pay. The ship would also be a prime target for pirates/terrorists.

froh 1y ago

List of large sailing vessels - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_large_sailing_vessels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_large_sailing_vessels not the longest but top notch tonnage the French Wikipedia lists it at 13 278 GT https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliner_Origin https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliner_Origin and

sandworm101 1y ago

>> He added that wind propulsion offers an advantage because it is a free, widely available, and predictable energy source Written by someone who obviously has never owned a sailboat.

krasin 1y ago

In the meantime, China is constructing nuclear cargo ships ([1], [2]) that will be able to transport 14,000 containers at full throttle (200MW) without a need to refuel for years. Obviously, it's still not done, and yet to prove to be profitable, but their reactor design does suggest that they have a chance to make it work and replace a lot of CO2 emissions. 1. Original article, but paywall: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3331031/china-unveils-power-thorium-reactor-worlds-largest-cargo-ship?module=perpetual_scroll_0&pgtype=article https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3331031/chin... 2. Derivative (+based commentary), but no paywall: https://www.chosun.com/english/world-en/2025/11/07/MND3QUGUTZFNVANSQ5UQBT2F4Q/ https://www.chosun.com/english/world-en/2025/11/07/MND3QUGUT...

SirHumphrey 1y ago
Nuclear ship propulsion is not a new technology so I have no doubt they will succeed. But where this will and all previous attempts have (see: N.S. Savannah) failed is that ports do not want to accept such ships, because of environmental and insurance issues.
- pmontra 1y ago
  China owns some ports abroad and probably they have enough leverage in some of those countries to let their ships dock there.
- mmooss 1y ago
  > Nuclear ship propulsion is not a new technology Have they been used in for-profit scenarios? Military ships and ice breakers don't have to turn a profit.
4gotunameagain 1y ago
How ironic, a huge "EMBRACING NET-ZERO FUTURE" logo on the behemoth filled with cheap plastic crap that will chill out in landfills for generations to come.
- mcdonje 1y ago

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shevy-java 1y ago

> The ship can carry up to 5,300 tonnes of cargo Ok but ... what was it carrying? I mean there may be a government active right now that is bombing civilian ships, in particular when they carry fish.

yard2010 1y ago
That sounds fishy!

michelb 1y ago

Looks cool! What's the latest innovation in 'sails' (shape/tech) development? And what would it take to scale a cargo sailboat to take >100k tonnes load?

Boglander 1y ago

Bring back the Onedin Line.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2IuPjpAHnI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2IuPjpAHnI

Boglander 1y ago

Bring back the Onedin Line...even just for the theme tune. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2IuPjpAHnI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2IuPjpAHnI

2b3a51 1y ago

Just wondering if there is any potential for coasting with these smaller ships? Replacing lorries for port to port travel say in med or along Atlantic coast of Europe. Coasting ships were the main cargo transport before trains and for some time after in the UK. Even as late as 1950s a fair percentage of cargo came in and out of London on relatively small ships from UK ports and Europe mainland. Before containerisation of course but I'm not sure it was containers that killed that traffic off. I suspect it may have been motorways and lorries.

ViewTrick1002 1y ago
The problem is always multi-modality. Switching modes of transport increases cost and complexity. The volumes also needs to be very large for it to be worth it. Switching from just point to point trucking to truck -> ship -> truck needs to have extremely large efficiency gains in the ship portion to be worth it.
- ungreased0675 1y ago
  We’d need to automate cargo handling, which is something the longshoremen union fights very hard against.

marooningrid 1y ago

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georgehaake 1y ago

the ministry for the future