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Roc Camera
- I_dream_of_Geni 1y agoThis sounds cool. But why so freaking expensive??
- monooso 1y agoThere is something deeply dystopian about the phrase "verifiably real moments."
- anigbrowl 1y agohttps://philosophy.as.uky.edu/sites/default/files/We%20Can%20Remember%20It%20for%20You%20Wholesale%20-%20Philip%20K.%20Dick.pdf https://philosophy.as.uky.edu/sites/default/files/We%20Can%2...
- astrange 1y agoI think it'd be more interesting if you made a camera that took verifiably fake photos that were guaranteed to be nothing like what you pointed it at.
- edf13 1y agoCan’t I just photo a printed AI generated pic? What use is the proof?
- cma 1y ago> Creates a Zero Knowledge (ZK) Proof of the camera sensor data and other metadatas How do you stop someone from taking a picture of an AI picture? It will still come from the sensor.
- radicaldreamer 1y agoMaybe adding a depth sensor/lidar might fix this?
- c0balt 1y agoProbably look for display artifacts (pixel borders)? But a fixture that takes a good enough screen + enough distance to make the photographed pixels imperceptible is likely just a medium hurdle for a motivated person. You probably can't fully avoid it but adding more sensors (depth) will make such a fixture quite a bit more expensive.
- Rozoulay 1y agoThis is a known problem in this space called 're-broadcasting' do a Google patent search on Serelay and you'll see several solutions (including spoofing of other sensor metadata)
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- zitterbewegung 1y agoI’m not seeing what this is product is trying to solve? A zero knowledge proof to say it isn’t AI ? I think you could do this with a disposable camera or Polaroids and a photo scanner that makes the zero knowledge proofs .
- JKCalhoun 1y agoI love my medium format film cameras. I think everyone interested in photography should try it. Yashicas (just as an example of a company that made good medium format film cameras) are surprisingly affordable on eBay. I've had good luck buying from Japan, FWIW.
- scrps 1y agoI'll throw Mamiya 645 in there for a good medium format camera as well. Yashica is great, I own a Yashica Electro 35 and it is awesome no thought rangefinder.
- seg_lol 1y agoWith the tariffs this is no longer possible for US persons.
- ekianjo 1y agoDo the tariffs apply on used items as well? In any case such cameras are fairly cheap nowadays
- JKCalhoun 1y agoThey use to fall under de-minimus? But no longer. So there are duties to pay.
- dghlsakjg 1y agoHuh? Tariffs shouldn’t prevent buying stuff, you just have to, y’know, pay a tariff on import. In this case, a Japanese made camera will incur a 15% tariff.
- jppope 1y agoI can't tell does this have adversarial AI built in?
- vlmutolo 1y agoI wonder how this compares to similar initiatives by e.g. Sony [0] and Leica [1]. [0]: https://authenticity.sony.net/camera/en-us/ https://authenticity.sony.net/camera/en-us/ [1]: https://petapixel.com/2023/10/26/leica-m11-p-review-as-authenticated-as-they-come/ https://petapixel.com/2023/10/26/leica-m11-p-review-as-authe...
- sbinnee 1y agoI knew that Leica is generally expensive, but the model on the review is insanely expensive (over 10K USD?). It is not even comparable.
- bcraven 1y agoIt's not the camera that is important though, but the technology: https://spec.c2pa.org/specifications/specifications/2.2/index.html https://spec.c2pa.org/specifications/specifications/2.2/inde...
- nayuki 1y agoCanon gave users the option to sign their photographs with "add original decision data". It got cracked. * https://petapixel.com/2010/12/01/russian-software-firm-breaks-canons-authenticity-verification-big-time/ https://petapixel.com/2010/12/01/russian-software-firm-break... * https://www.elcomsoft.com/presentations/Forging_Canon_Original_Decision_Data.pdf https://www.elcomsoft.com/presentations/Forging_Canon_Origin...
- keyle 1y agoThis is rather expensive for what looks like a home 3D printed toy with some cute software. Other than that it's a 16MP Sony CMOS, I'd expect a pretty noisy picture... How do I get my photos off the camera? Coming soon. We're working on export functionality to get your photos off the camera. It would be more interesting if the software was open source.
- Gigachad 1y agoIt wouldn't work at all as open source since you could just modify the source to sign your AI generated pictures.
- drdaeman 1y agoThis is patently incorrect. Just remember the whole TiVo affair and reasons why GPLv3 was born. Source code availability does not guarantee ability to run it on the particular device.
- pabs3 1y agoThe Software Freedom Conservancy thinks the GPLv2 guarantees the ability to modify existing GPLv2 software on a device, but does not guarantee the ability to still use the proprietary software running on top of that, and that the same applies with GPLv3. Reading the preamble of the GPLv2, I'm inclined to agree with them. Hasn't been tested in court yet though I think. https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2021/mar/25/install-gplv2/ https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2021/mar/25/install-gplv2/ https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2021/jul/23/tivoization-and-the-gpl-right-to-install/ https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2021/jul/23/tivoization-and-t... https://events19.linuxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Safely-Copylefted-Cars-Reexamining-GPLv3-Installation-Information-Requirements-ALS-Bradley-Kuhn-Behan-Webster-1.pdf https://events19.linuxfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2017...
- a-dub 1y agoit would. it would just require pki and a secure enclave that lives directly on the imaging chip to support it.
- cultofmetatron 1y agoput this in a durable rangefinder form factor and it would be great as a journalism camera.
- jeffamcgee 1y agoIf you take this to ILM's The Volume, you can prove that The Mandolorian is real.
- d--b 1y agoThis looks like a hipster toy. It’s possible that this could have value in journalism or law enforcement. Just make it look the part. Make it black and put some decent lens on it.
- Gigachad 1y agoI'm pretty sure forensic cameras already exist for this purpose. And as far as I can tell, there isn't really any bulletproof way to do this other than embed a signing key in the camera and hope no one manages to extract it, rendering the whole thing pointless. I guess you could have a unique signing key per camera and blacklist known leaked keys.
- ChrisMarshallNY 1y agoCanon and Nikon both did this. You paid a premium for a “signature analysis” app. The target was for things like law enforcement, where authentication was important. They got cracked with a year or two. Not sure if they still offer the capability.
- sbinnee 1y agoI have been happily using fujifilm x100 for about 10 years now? I bought a second hand one for about $300. You can buy a decent camera cheaper than a smartphone, as it should be.
- bobertdowney 1y agoCould Apple or Google do this without updating their hardware? I see a relevant patent (US20220294640A1) and it looks like one of the inventors is at Google now.
- akersten 1y agoback in my day when we wanted to prove a picture was "real" (and not Photoshopped), we just posted the .NEF file
- padolsey 1y agoWhat concerns me most in the era of gen AI irt photography is journalism. We need truth, most especially when limited-means citizen journalism is the only reliable source of that truth. But I feel like the only way to accomplish fool-proof photos we can trust in a trustless way (i.e. without relying on e.g. the Press Association to vet) is to utterly PACK the hardware with sensors and tamper-proof attestation so the capture can’t be plausibly faked: multi-spectral (RGB + IR + UV) imaging, depth/LiDAR, stereo cameras, PRNU fingerprinting, IMU motion data, secure GPS with attested fix, a hardware clock and secure element for signing, ambient audio, lens telemetry, environmental sensors (temperature, barometer, humidity, light spectrum) — all wrapped in cryptographic proofs that bind these readings to the pixels. In the meantime however, I'd trust a 360deg go-pro with some kind of signature of manafacture. OR just a LOT of people taking photos in a given vicinity. Hard to fake that.
- Fade_Dance 1y agoThis is probably one of those scenarios where if someone wants to fake it they're going to fake it (or at least it will be a never ending arms race, and I expect AI to keep close chase), while a basic security solution will suffice for 99% of use cases, including standard journalism. After all, skilled photoshop+computational tools can already do expert fakery in journalism. (Just look at the last Abroadinjapan video earlier today for a good callout of Photoshop editing to increase engagement).
- petesergeant 1y agoI wrote this about 7 years ago: https://github.com/pjlsergeant/multimedia-trust-and-certification https://github.com/pjlsergeant/multimedia-trust-and-certific...
- esseph 1y agoMine isn't journalism, it's the court system. Before long, it might be somewhat "easy" to prove anything.
- simultsop 1y agoFor a moment I thought a software solution will be shared at the end. Did not expect a camera marketing.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- positus 1y agoIt seems like one could just shoot film and make darkroom prints and accomplish the same thing?
- seemaze 1y agopictorialists used the darkroom to distort reality more than a century ago!
- modeless 1y agoSeems to me that a camera like this is necessarily, at least in part, a closed system that blocks you from controlling the software or hardware on the device you supposedly own. It's hard for me to think this is a good direction. And as others have pointed out, it can't prevent attacks through the analog hole, e.g. photographing a display. It's not feasible or desirable for our hardware devices to verify the information they record autonomously. A real solution to the problem of attribution in the age of AI must be based on reputation. People should be able to vouch for information in verifiable ways with consequences for being untrustworthy.
- nixpulvis 1y agoI don't think reputation gets you that far alone, we already live in a world where misinformation spreads like wildfire through follower counts and page ranks. The problem is quality takes time, and therefore loses relevance. We need a way to break people out of their own human nature and reward delayed gratification by teaching critical thinking skills and promoting thoughtfulness. I sadly don't see an exciting technological solution here. If anything it's tweaks to the funding models that control the interests of businesses like Instagram, Reddit, etc.
- noduerme 1y agoWhy can't posting a verifiably true image create as much or more instant gratification as sending a fake one? It will probably be more gratifying, once everyone is sending fake ones and yours is the only real one (if people can know that).
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- nixpulvis 1y agoAm I just a crazy cynic or are ZK proofs here just a buzzword. Like, how is this any different than having each camera equipped with a vendor controlled key and then having it sign every photo? If you can spoof the sensor enough to reuse the key, couldn't you spoof the sensor enough to fool a verifier into believing your false proof?
- injidup 1y agoYou take a photo of an AI generated photo. What's yr proof worth then?
- a3w 1y agoYes, IIRC if you measure an image signal, i.e. here: image, that is at twice the resolution of the sensor you use, there won't be any artifacts. Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem. But, if the sony sensor also measures depth information, this attack vector will fall flat. Pun intended.
- Barbing 1y agoThe technique you describe has seen some use by some major vendors for 5 to 10 years right?
- nixpulvis 1y agoNot sure.
- d_silin 1y agoYou can absolutely sign the image with the on-camera certificate, for example, but that would too boring of a solution to hype.
- nixpulvis 1y agoSee that's what I'm saying.
- rukuu001 1y agoLiterally manufacturing trust eh?
- wilg 1y agoThere's simply no technical solution to authenticating photographs as far as I can tell. The only real solution I can think of is just to have multiple independent parties photograph the same event and use social trust. Luckily this solution is getting easier now that almost everyone is generally no further than 3 feet away from multiple cameras.
- beeflet 1y agoyou know what grinds my gears? The fact that it takes 2 seconds for the android camera app to open, even when I use the shortcut on the lock screen. It's a step backwards from point-and-shoot cameras. I was trying to take a picture of a gecko the other day, and it missed half of the event while the app was loading.
- ares623 1y agoI don’t know what this gives that a film camera with slide film loaded doesn’t. Both cameras still allow “staging” a scene and taking a shot of that. Both cameras will both say that the scene was shot in the physical world, but that’s it. I would argue that slide film is more “verifiable” in the ways that matter: easier to explain to laypeople how slide film works, and it’s them that you want to convince. If I was a film or camera manufacturer I would try and go for this angle in marketing.
- geor9e 1y agoCan't find slide printing services easily put AI images onto slide film for you? I think the point of this movement toward cryptographically signing image sensors is so people can confidently prove images are real on the internet in a momentary click, without having to get hold of the physical original and hiring a forensic lab to analyze it.
- dghlsakjg 1y agoYou can get things printed onto a transparency mounted in a slide frame. Actual slide film, though, must be done by exposing light. When you want another image put onto a slide, the easiest way to do it is to just take a picture using a camera. That’s beside the broader point that OP made: it doesn’t matter since you can just point a verifiable camera at a staged scene (or reproduction of an AI image) and have an image of something that doesn’t represent reality. You can cryptographically sign, or have an original slide, of an image that is faked outside the camera.
- geor9e 1y ago>You can just point a verifiable camera at a staged scene It's an emerging field, and attack vectors like that are hurdles to be solved. You can make faking more difficuly, for example, with a depth sensor.
- dghlsakjg 1y agoI assure you that photo authenticity is not an emerging field. Using cryptographically signed photos is not even new, most of the major camera manufacturers are offering it, or are working on offering it at this point. The reality is that even with things like sensor depth data proving that a scene is in 3 dimensions, you are still able to manipulate the actors in a scene, still able to selectively include or exclude elements, still able to pick the image that seems to show something that it doesn't, still able to editorialize in a text description of a scene etc. The time-proven solution for this is to rely on institutional reputation. While every news source has had lapses, I am far more likely to trust the reality and neutrality of, say, the AP over Fox News regardless of the presence of a signature. Disclosure: I used to freelance for the AP as a photojournalist.
- noyesno 1y agohttps://www.nikonusa.com/content/nikon-authenticity-service https://www.nikonusa.com/content/nikon-authenticity-service already exists?
- shayanbahal 1y agothis is a gem from the past I believe
- alberth 1y agoHow does this differ from a kids digital camera that costs only 1/10th the cost. Not trolling. Genuinely don’t understand. https://www.amazon.com/Camera-Digital-Toddler-Christmas-Birthday/dp/B0D6RMZ3D1/ https://www.amazon.com/Camera-Digital-Toddler-Christmas-Birt...
- geor9e 1y agoThere is a movement to cryptographically sign images in order to prove that they are real raw photographs, by selling hardware in which the cryptographic key is placed close to the camera sensor to prevent tampering. This is one attempt.
- troupo 1y agoSo it's a Raspberry Pi attaching a ZK Proof to an image to say that this image was taken on this particular Raspberry Pi. That's it. That's the verification? So what happens when I use a Raspberry Pi to attach a ZK proof to an AI- generated image?
- IlikeKitties 1y agoHow could this possibly validate that the camera sensor that's attached to it is actually a camera sensor and not just an FPGA sending raw data?
- m00x 1y agoyou can't
- TheDong 1y agoYou have to push the signing as far out as possible. The light sensor must have a key built into the hardware at the factory, and that sensor must attest that it hasn't detected any tampering, that gets input into the final signature. We must petition God to start signing photons, and the camera sensor must also incorporate the signature of every photon input to it, and verify each photon was signed by God's private key. God isn't currently signing photons, but if he could be convinced to it would make this problem a lot easier so I'm sure he'll listen to reason soon.
- peteforde 1y agoI used to be really (really really) into photography. I respect anyone working hard on a physical product, but this misses the mark on every front I can think of. The real issue that photographers grapple with, emotionally and financially, is that pictures have become so thoroughly commodified that nobody assigns them cultural value anymore. They are the thumbnail you see before the short video clip starts playing. Nobody has ever walked past a photograph because they can't inspect its digital authenticity hash. This is especially funny to me because I used to struggle with the fact that people looking at your work don't know or care what kind of camera or process was involved. They don't know if I spent two hours zoomed in removing microscopic dust particles from the scanning process after a long hike to get a single shot at 5:30am, or if it was just the 32nd of 122 shots taken in a burst by someone holding up an iPad Pro Max at a U2 concert. This all made me sad for a long time, but I ultimately came to terms with the fact that my own incentives were perverse; I was seeking the external gratification of getting likes just like everyone else. If you can get back to a place where you're taking photographs or making music or doing 5 minute daily synth drills for your own happiness with no expectation of external validity, you will be far happier taking that $399 and buying a Mamiya C330. This video is about music, but it's also about everything worth doing for the right reasons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvQF4YIvxwE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvQF4YIvxwE
- SubiculumCode 1y agoThat's not the point. The point is trying to make a device that can help capture evidence of events that can be verified as not AI generated.
- october8140 1y agoThe biggest lie capitalism tells us is that something only has value if it can be sold.
- grumpy-de-sre 1y agoOr just maybe free markets expose the bitter truth. That can take a lot of self reflection to come to terms with. Applies to a lot of aspects to life, eg. career planning, creative endeavors etc. But at the same time it's true that some vital public activities aren't rewarded by the system atm. Eg. quality journalism, family rearing, open source, etc. Often that's an issue of privatized costs and socialized rewards. Finding a way to correct for this is a really big deal.
- prmoustache 1y agoIf you are taking the photo yourself, you know where they come from. While would you need signed pictures to prove that?
- LeoPanthera 1y agoOh no! You've discovered that the product is completely pointless! If only they had asked you first!
- injidup 1y agoWhen rocking your Meta, Ray Ban, MacDonalds, Tesla XR AR 0009fNG plus Reality engine contact lense inplants it will be important to cross reference your experiences with what really happened.
- sciencejerk 1y agoYep this is coming soon. You'll be required to own and operate wearables to participate in the social web, or post photos anywhere.
- rendaw 1y agoInstagram could have a "real" filter that only shows you photos with proofs, for instance. So not your own photos, but other people's photos.
- huflungdung 1y ago[dead]
- matt_daemon 1y agoWhy do websites like this always try to be too clever? Let me scroll!
- broguinn 1y ago+1. To all of the marketing site developers out there: never mess with scrolling defaults.
- efreak 1y agoScrolling is broken on mobile, it scrolls right past entire sections, like there's too much inertia. The last section is also wider than the screen and horizontal scrolling disabled.
- noduerme 1y agoIt's wild that it's already come to this: The camera itself becomes more important as the instrument to provide zero-trust proof. This is a brilliant solution to one of the most critical emergent problems. I can see a world where no digital image can be trusted if it doesn't come with a hash. There is also something called "film" which might be a retro answer to this problem.
- colordrops 1y agoI predicted something similar a while back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31092225 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31092225
- m00x 1y agoand it has existed for a while already
- colordrops 1y agoCould you share some examples?
- asimpleusecase 1y agoKinda interesting- of course until it hacked. But honestly it does not look like something I would want to carry around.
- m00x 1y agoThe Pi4 is extremely overpowered for this application. This looks like a rushed product from an SF brainfart with no engineering behind it.
- dusted 1y agoI don't understand how the "proof" part works, like, what part of the input to the "proof generation" algorithm is so inherently tied to the real world that one cannot feed it "fake" data ?
- whatsupdog 1y agoI would also love to know this. Where can I read how it works?
- ConorSheehan1 1y agoMy understanding is it can't. The proof is "this photo was taken with this real camera and is unmodified". There's no way to know if the photo subject is another image generated by AI, or a painting made by a human etc.
- _carbyau_ 1y ago^^This so much. I remember when snapchat were touting "send picture that delete within timeframes set by you!" and all that would happen is you'd turn to your friend and have them take a picture of your phone. In the above case, the outcome was messy. But with some effort, people could make reasonable quality "certified" pictures of damn near anything by taking a picture of a picture. Then there is the more technical approach of cracking a system physically in your hands so you can sign whatever you want anyway... I think the aim should be less on the camera hardware attestation and more on the user. "It is signed with their key! They take responsibility for it!" But then we need: 1. fully active and scaled public/private key encryption for all users for whatever they want to do 2. a world where people are held responsible for their actions... I'm not sure which is more unrealistic.
- condiment 1y agoI don’t disagree with including user attestation in addition to hardware attestation. The notion of their being a “analog hole” for devices that attest that their content is real is correct on the face, but is a very flawed criticism. Right now, anybody on earth can open up an LLM and generate an image. Anybody on earth can open up Photoshop and manipulate an image. And there’s no accountability for where that content came from. But not everybody on earth is capable of projecting an image and photographing it in a way that is in distinguishable from taking a photo of reality. Especially when you’ve taken into consideration that these cameras are capturing depths of field information, location information, and other metadata. I think it’s a mistake to demand perfection. This is about trust in media and creating foundational technologies that allow for that trust to be restored. Imagine if every camera and every piece of editing software had the ability to sign its output with a description of any mutations. That is a chain of metadata where each link in the chain can be assigned to trust score. If, an addition to technology signatures, human signatures are included, that just builds additional trust. At some point, it would be inappropriate for news or social media not to use this information when presenting content. As others have mentioned, C2PA is a reasonable step in this direction.
- boobsbr 1y agoStop hijacking the scrolling.
- allthetime 1y agohijacking is one thing, but this completely ruins native scroll function. It's actually just broken garbage front-end
- jeswin 1y agoI am actually willing to support DIY camera efforts, but if you're semi-serious about taking pictures, this just wouldn't work. First, Raspberry Pi (I'm guessing this is a CM4/CM5) is a disaster for a camera board. Nobody wants a 20s boot every time you want to take a picture, cameras need to be near instantaneous. And you can't keep it on either, because the RPi can't really sleep. There are boards that can actually sleep, but with fewer sensor options. Now moving on to the sensor (IMX 519 - Arducam?) - it's tinier than the tiniest sensor found on phones. If you really want to have decent image quality, you should look at Will Whang's OneInchEye and Four-thirds eye (https://www.willwhang.dev/ https://www.willwhang.dev/). 4/3 Eye uses IMX294 which is currently the only large sensor which has Linux support (I think he upstreamed it) and MIPI. All the other larger sensors use interfaces like SLVS which are impossible to connect to. If anyone's going to attempt a serious camera, they need to do two things. Use at least a 1 inch sensor, and a board which can actually sleep (which means it can't be the RPi). This would mean a bunch of difficult work, such as drivers to get these sensors to work with those boards. The Alice Camera (https://www.alice.camera/ https://www.alice.camera/) is a better attempt and probably uses the IMX294 as well. The most impressive attempt however is Wenting Zhang's Sitina S1 - (https://rangefinderforum.com/threads/diy-full-frame-digital-camera-released-on-github.4817105 https://rangefinderforum.com/threads/diy-full-frame-digital-...). He used a full frame Kodak CCD Sensor. There is a market for a well made camera like the Fuji X-Half. It doesn't need to have a lot of features, just needs to have ergonomics and take decent pictures. Stuff like proofs are secondary to what actually matters - first it needs to take good pictures, which the IMX 519 is going to struggle with.
- feketegy 1y agoIs this another cash grab? The founders who made this don't seem to know what real photography is.
- blauditore 1y agoIt's not like questioning the authenticity of a photo is a new thing "in the age of AI". Manipulating photos has always been a thing, long before photoshop even.
- nextlevelwizard 1y agoHeh, few years ago I built myself a RPi Zero based camera. I wonder how have they made the boot up fast enough to not be annoying. I used non-real time eInk display to cut down on the battery life so I could just keep it on in my pocket while out taking pictures since it took good minute to get ready from cold boot.
- silcoon 1y agoLooks like a weekend project, done with a third of the cost as a budget.
- ollybee 1y agoI always assumed high end CCTV cameras already did something like this?
- merelysounds 1y agoI’m a photographer in my spare time; looks like this product isn’t about what images are being produced, or about the shooting experience - and this discourages me. When the goal is having a proof that the photo hasn’t been edited or ai generated, using an analog camera and shooting on film seems more practical to me than using a device like this.
- blharr 1y agoCould an AI not be trained to emulate the look of analog film and its artifacts?
- merelysounds 1y agoI meant that there is a proof of the photo being taken and a record of what the photo looked like before any edits (a photo negative).
- quailfarmer 1y agoKudos for making this exist, it was an inevitable place for the conversation to lead, and I’m actually glad it was “hacked” together as a project rather than forced into a consumer product. The camera specs don’t really matter here, this is about having the conversation. If this catches on, it will be a feature of every smartphone SoC. On one hand, it’s a cool application of cryptography as a power tool to balance AI, but on the other, it’s a real hit to free and open systems. There’s a risk that concern over AI spirals into a justification for mandatory attestation that undermines digital freedom. See: online banking apps that refuse to operate on free devices.
- ninetyninenine 1y agoThis has it all wrong. The truth is worse than anyone wants to face. It was never about authenticity or creativity. Those words are just bullshit armor for fragile egos. Proofs and certificates do not mean a damn thing. AI tore the mask off. It showed that everything we worship, art, music, poetry, beauty, all of it runs on patterns. Patterns so simple and predictable that a lifeless algorithm can spit them out while we sit here calling ourselves special. The magic we swore was human turns out to be math wearing makeup. Strip away the label and no one can tell who made it. The human touch we brag about dissolves into noise. The line between creator and creation never existed. We were just too arrogant to admit it. Love, happiness, beauty, meaning, all of it is chemistry and physics. Neurons firing, hormones leaking, atoms slamming into each other. That is what we are when we fall in love, when we cry, when we write a song we think no machine could ever match. It is all the same damn pattern. Give a machine enough data and it will mimic our souls so well we will start to feel stupid for ever thinking we had one. This is not the future. It is already moving beneath us. The trendline is clear. AI will make films that crush Hollywood. Maybe not today, maybe not next year, but that is where the graph is pointing. And artists who refuse to use it, who cling to the old ways out of pride or fear, are just holding on to stupidity. The tools have changed. Pretending they have not is the fastest way to become irrelevant. Yes, maybe right now you can still tell the difference. Maybe it is obvious. But look at the rate. Look at the slope of that goddamn line. The speed of progress is unmistakable. Every year the gap closes. Every year the boundary between man and machine blurs a little more. Anyone who cannot see where this is going, anyone who cannot admit that this is a realistic possibility, is in total denial. The projection of that line into the future cannot be ignored. It is not speculation anymore. It is math, and it is happening right in front of us. People will still scoff, call it soulless, call it fake. But put them in a blind test and they will swear it was human. The applause will sound exactly the same. And one day a masterpiece will explode across the world. Everyone will lose their minds over it. Critics will write essays about its beauty and depth. People will cry, saying it touched something pure in them. Then the creator will step forward and say it was AI. And the whole fucking world will go quiet. Because in that silence we will understand. There was never anything special about us. No divine spark. No secret soul. Just patterns pretending to mean something. We are noise that learned to imitate order. Equations wrapped in skin. Puppets jerking to the pull of chemistry, pretending it is choice.
- ArcherGorgonite 1y agoIt has to be a joke...
- dandanua 1y agoAny device like this is useless, because you can print an AI generated picture and then take a photo of it. It's like NFTs in the crypto world, which have proofs that prove essentially nothing.
- defraudbah 1y agolol, faq is funny how long does the batter last > Currently, the battery will last estimated 2~3 hours on constant use on a full charge. It can last much longer if it is off.
- dsrtslnd23 1y agoI remember reading in some Qualcomm Snapdragon document that Qualcomm integrated some image authenticity method. Not sure if this ever landed in an end-product?
- russellbeattie 1y agoThis shouldn't be a product, but a licensed patented technology like Dolby or CDMA, sold to OEMs and directly integrated into cameras and phones. It should be an industry standard system for guaranteeing authenticity by coordinating hardware and software to be as tamper proof as possible and saved in a cryptographically verifiable way. No system like this would be perfect, but that's the enemy of the good.
- Bengalilol 1y agoThe main argument of this product is to "capture verifiably real moments". Though I find it interesting (and am quite liking the object), I do not tend to think this is a strong argument for this product: capturing a picture of a unreal picture would make it real (as discussed in this thread), moreover what would prevent any phone manufacturer from integrating the same type of "validation" into their hardware?
- t43562 1y agoThey are already doing it e.g. Sony. https://amateurphotographer.com/latest/photo-news/sony-announces-new-in-camera-authenticity-technology/ https://amateurphotographer.com/latest/photo-news/sony-annou... It needs a certificate issuance and validation system https://c2pa.org/ https://c2pa.org/
- grey-area 1y agoThis looks interesting. I love the retro styling and transparent case. The proofs and selling it as some sort of fight-back against AI seems tenuous and as the user controls the hardware - going to be hard to keep that system hermetically sealed due to giving the user the keys on device. Also though almost nobody actually cares very much about attesting that their photos are somehow real and untouched by AI. There are larger problems when you consider this question. What is real and not in photography is a long and storied debate - any photograph is ultimately a curation of a small part of the real world - what is just out of frame could completely change the interpretation of the viewer if they saw it, regardless of whether the picture is unaltered after taking. The choice of framing, colours, subject etc etc can radically alter meaning. There is no getting away from this. So ultimately I don't think the biggest problem facing photography is attested reality. I actually think the democratisation of photography offers a better way out - we have so many views on each event now that it's actually harder to fake because there are usually hundreds of pictures of the same thing. PS for the site author, there is a typo in the sentence beginning - remove the an 'By combining sensors, an on-device zero-knowledge proofs'.
- ludicrousdispla 1y agoDoes anyone know if the camera sensor includes depth map information? Otherwise what is stopping someone from photographing a large high-resolution print of an AI generated image.
- zipy124 1y agothis one does not. Other cameras do include one, or can make a depth sensor via the real sensor since autofocus/focus stacking allows depth extraction, especially if using a low aperature number.
- dimas_codes 1y agoI am sorry if I missed something or someone already asked it, but: If I generate image with AI, print it, then take a photo of it with Roc Camera so that you can't tell that this is actually a printed image, I will then have an AI image with ZKP of its authenticity?
- efskap 1y agoI suspect the EXIF data won't make sense, and the faq says the ZKP applies to the metadata as well. But yeah, inherent flaw.
- keiferski 1y agoPresumably you could stop this by requiring GPS data for the image, and match that against a library of other images in the location?
- dbdr 1y agoSony has this on their related page: > A digital signature alone cannot determine whether the captured image is of an actual 3D subject, or of an image or video projected on a high-definition monitor. However, by using metadata including 3D depth information, it is possible to verify the authenticity of images with a high degree of accuracy. By using cameras from Sony, both the image and the 3D depth information can be captured on the sensor along the single light axis, providing information of high authenticity. That 3D depth data could presumably be used to detect this. In principle, you could also train an AI to generate realistic 3D data. It's just not available yet, and probably harder to train (in general, and also since you would need to collect new massive amount of training data first). No idea if this specific device has a 3D sensor, addressing the general question.
- zipy124 1y agoThe depth information that sony cameras collect is almost certainly low-res enough that even with a simple image->depthmap model[0] you could fool it. Also they don't say anything about the sensor itself being secure, no need to print something if you can just emulate the sensor with an FPGA or other. [0]: https://github.com/CompVis/depth-fm https://github.com/CompVis/depth-fm
- ajdlinux 1y agoMy initial reactions: - I hope they succeed and eventually deliver a solid version of this product - verifiable photography is going to become important, and it's good to see startups working on this - While I'm sure some artists will like the idea of verifiable photography, the applications that matter to me are any kind of photography that has the potential to end up in a news article or in court - Selling what is essentially a prototype is fine, it's extremely obvious that's what it is, they explicitly say it! Who cares if it's not very good as a camera? - The almost complete lack of information on their site about their security model or how their ZKPs work is not particularly encouraging - It follows that my faith that either the cryptography or the hardware anti-tamper measures in this beta device would stand up to even some decent amateurs, given a couple of weeks to have a crack at it, is not high. I'm almost tempted to buy one just to see how far I, a random kernel engineer who gets modestly decent scores at my local hacker con CTF, could get. But I may well be completely underestimating them! Hard to tell with the fairly scarce information - Why did they pick a name that's similar to a) AMD's GPU stack, and b) the law enforcement/natsec computer vision business, ROC (https://roc.ai https://roc.ai)?
- flyinglizard 1y agoGood thinking, but the problem here is that in order to make a good camera which takes verifiable photos you first need to make a good camera, and that's quite hard.
- anigbrowl 1y agoI like the concept (because I was proposing such a couple of years back) and the software implementation seems good. But holy shit that thing is ugly. They could(should) have worked with a cheap camera maker like Lomokino to make a bare-bones rangefinder or twin lens reflex. This is one of the worst designs I have ever seen. Sorry.
- hermitcrab 1y agoIt is seriously ugly. Especially for $399. Was that intentional?
- skeptrune 1y agoI like the spirit of this, but not the implementation. It feels very performative to create a ZK proof to show that a photo is real. And not really in the spirit of capturing magic moments on film. I think that a disposable camera, or even something fancier, like a Mamiya C330, are better and more gratifying bets for the money.
- dschuetz 1y ago$400 lul what
- Tepix 1y agoRemember, Nikon's image authentication was hacked back in 2011 https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2011/04/nikon-image-authentication-system-compromised/ https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2011/04/nikon-image-authenticatio... The ACLU is sceptical regarding the whole concept: https://www.aclu-or.org/en/news/attempts-technological-solution-disinformation-will-do-more-harm-good https://www.aclu-or.org/en/news/attempts-technological-solut... The root causes podcast discusses this topic in its episode 336: https://www.sectigo.com/resource-library/root-causes-336-digitally-signing-images-on-cameras https://www.sectigo.com/resource-library/root-causes-336-dig... I strongly believe this should be an open source project.
- vlan121 1y agoSecurity 101: * Kerckhoff Principle of Open Design Security of a mechanism should not depend on the secrecy of its design or implementation.
- esaym 1y agoI'm going to buy this just to take a picture of my Kodak mining rig...
- qwertytyyuu 1y agoIs this nfts again?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- blitzar 1y agoEven a pivot to "its not Ai" has the same bandwagon feel as "pivoting to Ai".
- abricq 1y agoWhat I am waiting for is something similar to this (proof of image ownership / authenticity) embedded in smartphones cameras. Not sure if ZK is the right way of achieving this. Even if the cryptographic guarantees are strong, generating these proofs is very expensive.
- jonathanstrange 1y agoThat's tricky because it needs to store and verify metadata that the user cannot edit and that allows one to distinguish a "normal" photo from a professional photography of a photo. The only place where this can happen are the camera settings but these are limited on smart phones and it's not easy to discern the two cases. I'm sure someone would print a 10x10 meter fake image, put it at just the right distance, and wait for the best indirect light to prove that the Yeti exists.
- realharo 1y agoJust include a depth sensor, lidar, etc. I'm sure over time that will become increasingly easy to defeat too, but then we can just keep improving the sensors too.
- realharo 1y agoSome smartphone cameras already have this. Samsung tried it on the S25 but apparently did it wrong (https://petapixel.com/2025/02/13/samsungs-image-authenticity-approach-is-backward-and-its-ais-fault/ https://petapixel.com/2025/02/13/samsungs-image-authenticity...). Google has it on the Pixel 10 line. I think it's very likely the next iPhone will have some form of authenticity proof too, I just hope Apple doesn't go with its own standard again that's incompatible with everything else.
- bnreed 1y agoSamsung were also the ones who demonstrated a fatal flaw in C2PA: device manufacturers are explicitly trusted in implementation. C2PA requires trust that manufacturers would not be materially modifying the scene using convolutional neural networks to detect objects and add/remove details[1] 1) https://www.samsung.com/uk/support/mobile-devices/how-galaxy-cameras-combine-super-resolution-technologies-with-ai-to-produce-high-quality-images-of-the-moon/ https://www.samsung.com/uk/support/mobile-devices/how-galaxy...
- novoreorx 1y agoThis kinda like a PoC for ZK Proof used in digital devices, however, I don't think a Raspberry Pi in a 3D printed case should be made a real product, it lacks actualy use cases. Honestly, I like this concept, but I think it should belong to a personal art exhibition or DIY competition…
- 4gotunameagain 1y ago$400 for a raspberry pi in an ugly 3d printed case ? I love the idea, but the product execution is simply horrendous. It looks more like a money grab gimmick. The sensor selection is also bad, the image quality will be terrible.
- pharos92 1y ago$399 USD. L.O.L.
- spaceman_2020 1y agoI fail to see the hand wringing about media forms that didn’t exist 150 years ago. Even worse when I see people saying “it’s over” for slop content posted on social media We lived fine and well before social media or photography or videos.
- gherard5555 1y ago400$ for a phone camera stuck on a raspberry pi ? I will pass this one...
- donaldihunter 1y agoI don't think ZK proofs help to establish trust in a photo's authenticity at all. C2PA is a well thought out solution to this problem. https://spec.c2pa.org/specifications/specifications/2.2/specs/C2PA_Specification.html#_technical_overview https://spec.c2pa.org/specifications/specifications/2.2/spec... > The C2PA information comprises a series of statements that cover areas such as asset creation, edit actions, capture device details, bindings to content and many other subjects. These statements, called assertions, make up the provenance of a given asset and represent a series of trust signals that can be used by a human to improve their view of trustworthiness concerning the asset. Assertions are wrapped up with additional information into a digitally signed entity called a claim.
- brokensegue 1y agoI don't get how this is the only comment that doubts how their proofs work. There is zero detail or explanation of what they are proving
- doctorpangloss 1y agoThis is true, there is no detail. The idea with zero knowledge proofs is that typically, photography metadata is stripped when it’s posted on Facebook. The proof would be a piece of metadata that COULD be safe to share in the SPECIFICS of what it proves. For example there is a circuit that can show that the photo was taken in the United States without leaking the specific location the photo was taken. Presumably the authenticity scheme here is supposed to be, it answers it was taken on a real camera in a real place, without leaking any of the metadata. They are vague because probably that circuit (proving program and scheme) hasn’t been designed yet. I also don’t know if it is possible to make useful assertions at all in such a scheme, since authenticity is a collection of facts (for example) and ZK is usually used to specifically make association of related facts harder.
- gnyman 1y agoNeal Krawetz of fotoforensics (and others probably) disagree that C2PA "is a well thought out solution" https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?%2Farchives%2F1073-What-C2PA-Provides.html https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?%2Farchives%2F10... (search his blog if you want more of his thoughts on it) I don't have a know enough bout this but I've been reading his blog for other topics a while and he does seem to know a lot about photo authenticity.
- boo-ga-ga 1y agoFantastic idea, I'm sure there will be more such devices and a big market for them. Note to the company: please check the scrolling on Firefox (macOS), it's a little weird.
- computersuck 1y agoWhat if they take a photo of an AI generated photo
- dwardu 1y agoSo once the company shuts down its servers we've got a lemon?
- frouge 1y agoTo me it sounds like someone is trying to create a problem and sell it to me. Who needs to create images with proof of reality?
- flanbybleue69 1y agoIf you do photography for your own pleasure and not for the sake of likes, gratification or public opinion you can use whatever hardware or software it’s alright.
- realharo 1y agoHow does this compare to the content credentials added by the Pixel 10's camera?
- throawayonthe 1y agoi don't get how the attestation works? from the FAQ, the proofs are generated on the rpi, which AFAIK doesn't have anything like a modern HSM/vault which would allow them to 1. not allow user access to the secret or 2. not allow user to put ai-generated imagery onto the device for 'attestation'
- self_awareness 1y agoInteresting, but this is a software project. Camera sensor is being bought from Aliexpress in bulk. Competition from companies manufacturing cameras, or smartphones, is huge. How this project is not a cash grab?
- captainmuon 1y agoNooo... I don't want something to exist that can absolutely prove that a photo is real. This only serves to enforce social norms more rigidly. These include reasonable norms like against committing crimes or behaving abusingly but it also includes stupid norms like behaving uncool or doing something embarrasing. The problem is, where do you draw the line? I think if somebody does something stupid or even morally dubious there should always be a way of forgetting it. That you can't believe everything you see in the age of AI is a feature, not a bug. We are so used to photographs being hard facts that we'll have to go through a hard transition, but we'll be fine afterwards, just as we were before the invention of photography. Our norms will adapt. And photographs will become mere heresay and illustration, but that's OK. I think here the same dynamic is at play as with music/videos and DRM. Our society is so used to doing it the old way - selling physical records - that when new technology comes along, which allows free copying, we can't go where the technology leads us (because we don't know how to feed the artists, and because the record industry has too much power), so we invent a mechanism to turn back the wheel and make music into a scarce good again. Similar here: we can't ban Photoshop and AI, but we invent a technology to try to turn back time and make photos "evidence" again.
- alyxya 1y agoIt’s a cool idea, but I don’t know how much people care about a photo provably being real. I take pictures with my phone because it’s simple and convenient. I get the vibe that it’s kinda like NFTs, where maybe some people would care if certain NFTs are unique and permanently on some blockchain, but most people don’t. Most people won’t understand the technical details behind the proof so at most they can only trust the claim that a picture is provably real.
- jimdavid 1y ago[dead]
- seasongs 1y agoCool idea, could be implemented in future professional cameras but as of right now, I can’t think of a single reason that someone into photography would buy this
- sfjailbird 1y agoThere was a time when web pages were like regular documents, that could easily be scrolled through.
- anon191928 1y agothis all assumes nobody will make editing ???? what am I missing
- nQQKTz7dm27oZ 1y ago[dead]
- byyoung3 1y ago399 hahahahahahahahahahahahhahaqhahaha cool idea tho
- globular-toast 1y agoHas anyone else found themselves becoming hyper-attuned to "AI" trickery in photographs? Just the other day I stumbled across this picture on Wikipedia: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:An_AT%26T_wireless_retail_store_in_Asheville,_North_Carolina_02.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:An_AT%26T_wireless_r... Can anyone explain what's going on with the front tyre of the white car? To me it looks like the actual picture was ingested by a model then spat back out again with a weird artifact. The worrying thing is when it becomes too hard to spot the artifacts we won't know how much of our history has been altered subtly, either unintentionally or not, by "AI".
- n1c 1y agoIf you like the idea of a small "dumbish" camera but aren't fussed about all the ZK proof stuff these are quite fun: https://www.campsnapphoto.com/collections/camp-snap-screen-free-digital-cameras https://www.campsnapphoto.com/collections/camp-snap-screen-f... I have a few and letting my small kid have a blast while not getting "screen time" is great. Side effect is I get a small little window into what he "sees" and his lived experience. Going through some of the pics recently was quite beautiful.
- amelius 1y ago> Capture verifiably real moments What if I make a photo of my screen?
- harddrivereque 1y agoBut why does the case look like it is made out of garbage?
- RankingMember 1y agoIt looks 3d-printed (edit: confirmed- there's footage of it being 3d printed on the FAQ page). I'd expect a process with a better finish for the final product, but who knows with products like this that are in beta. Found this sort of funny too, from the FAQ: > Is this production ready? > No. The Roc Camera is currently in beta and we suggest you do not use it for anything important at the moment. We're open to feedback and suggestions. Please reach out to us at support@roc.camera.
- cesaref 1y agoThere's the C2PA standard which has picked up momentum recently to I guess help resolve some of the issues. https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2024-03-c2pa-verification-news-journalism-credentials https://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/blog/2024-03-c2pa-verification-news... I believe various cameras support this, e.g. https://www.canon-europe.com/press-centre/press-releases/2025/07/eos-r1-and-eos-r5-mark-ii-powerful-new-firmware-and-system-updates/ https://www.canon-europe.com/press-centre/press-releases/202... `C2PA Authenticity: Integrated support for the C2PA standard for photo authenticity verification – initially available exclusively for registered news agencies.` Sounds like it's limited to some users for now, I guess this will change in the future. Going too far won't really help, since the scene being photographed can be manipulated or staged, which sounds more likely to be a concern rather than the hardware being hacked.
- jonah 1y agoYup, Canon as you mention, also Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, etc. The membership is pretty extensive. https://c2pa.org/membership/ https://c2pa.org/membership/ https://www.nikonusa.com/content/nikon-authenticity-service https://www.nikonusa.com/content/nikon-authenticity-service https://authenticity.sony.net/camera/ https://authenticity.sony.net/camera/ https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/shopping/panasonic-is-the-latest-camera-maker-to-join-the-content-authenticity-initiative/ar-AA1CHrWH https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/shopping/panasonic-is-th...
- micromacrofoot 1y agoI find that most people who want to ground things in reality, that is at least "reality" without AI or whatever filters are put on photos by phones these days, don't have much interest in any sort of cryptographic proof of reality... this is in the same realm of technology they're trying to avoid.
- rfl890 1y agoFirst Roc Vodka, now this?
- fallat 1y ago399 for a sensor and rpi. I'm out.
- Rickasaurus 1y agoSeems like this could be a great product for law enforcement no? Verifiable pictures of evidence.
- bdcravens 1y agoAre they releasing the STL to let people print their own shell? If not, seems odd to advertise the fact that it's 3d printed with standard (Bambu Lab) printers.
- didacusc 1y agoWhat a silly idea, a whole Raspberry Pi for basic photography! Just the boot-up alone would drive someone nuts, you'd miss the moment every time and I'd drain your battery if you left it on. So silly.
- ch_fr 1y ago> How are my photos stored? >> We store the photos generated by the Roc Camera on IPFS (by default). We'll have more information on this soon, so check back for more details in the future. > How do I get my photos off the camera? >> Coming soon. We're working on export functionality to get your photos off the camera. > Where is the ZKP generated? >> The zero-knowledge proofs are generated on-device using the Raspberry Pi 4. I am a bit puzzled as to why IPFS was used as the "primary" storage medium there, it's a Pi so wouldn't it be pretty easy to make it have a micro-sd port? Wouldn't it be able to work fully locally then? When I look at their socials, it seems like they primarily engage with a crypto-focused audience, all of this leads me to believe that IPFS and ZKP are the actual main appeal of this product... not that there's anything overtly wrong with this.
- jvanderbot 1y agoWell, its more likely they just don't know. They haven't figured that out. So, they'll hire a hardware guy and it'll all change.
- christopherwxyz 1y agoI was part of the presale. I own one and am using it daily. Invested in it because of the emerging opportunities from crypto and ZKPs.
- tantalor 1y agoHow to defeat this: Step 1: Create an AI image and display it. Step 2: Use this camera to take a picture of it. Now you have "attested" proof of "verifiably real" image.
- TeeMassive 1y agoIndeed it can't authenticate photons. Security isn't about making things perfectly safe, but to make it harder for the bad guys.
- knowaveragejoe 1y agoIsn't the broader idea here valid? Will news agencies have cryptographic attestation in their cameras?
- kingnothing 1y agoThis page cannot be scrolled in Safari or Firefox. Devs -- stop hijacking native scrolling functionality. Why? You had one shot to sell me on this product. I can't see the page, so I can't consider it for purchase. That's a lost sale.
- napolux 1y agoThis is so "silicon valley", like the juicero thing.
- cawksuwcka 1y agoNFT camera! sick!
- vzaliva 1y agoThis is the right direction - the only way to go about fake images and video is digital signatures. Phone camera should be able to do this as well. Then we can have signatures of software used for processing them (on top) cerityfing what changes have been done: e.g. contract correction filter applied, signed by Adobe Photoshop.
- perdomon 1y agoThis is a cool idea, but why is it $400? This feels more like an open-source passion project than a legitimate business venture.
- BeFlatXIII 1y agoThe custom scolling is janky on Safari.
- yieldcrv 1y agono moat this is one of those things you shouldn't buy aside from novelty, but this idea wouldnt reach the light of day now without doing it this way the real goal would be integration into more popular camera systems I hope the founders and this concept gets all the support they are looking for
- fitsumbelay 1y agoLots of cool ideas here - crypto first/crypto everything, IPFS and soon Farcaster integration. But the price is a big negative. I also believe that whatever they're aiming at with verifiably real photos will either be commodified or end up not being valued very highly. It's not quite the Rabbit R1 (at least the presentation here seems more honest) but I don't see it generating more than niche-of-niche interest. Also, and maybe more to the previous point about commodification (or within-reach tech), this is the kind of project I can imagine hardware hacker/AI and crypto enthusiast doing on their own ( and I guess selling to friends and neighbors for $400 ... )
- zalusio 1y agoObviously, this has the vulnerability that you can take a picture of a computer monitor with it, showing whatever you want to. Apple could really make an interesting product here where they combine the LIDAR data with the camera data, cryptographically sign it, and attest to it as unmodified straight from the camera. Can it still be faked? Yes, but it's much harder to do.
- kfarr 1y ago> Obviously, this has the vulnerability that you can take a picture of a computer monitor with it, showing whatever you want to. Is this a reverse analog loophole? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_hole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_hole
- maieuticagent 1y agoConsider pivoting from hardware sales to verification-as-a-service. Your camera could be the universal input device for identity verification (less creepy than Worldcoin's Orb), insurance claims, real estate documentation, and legal evidence. Think transaction fees per verification, not one-time camera sales. The consumer angle is weak - most people won't buy specialized hardware to prove their vacation photos are real. But enterprises would absolutely pay for a solution that reduces fraud, accelerates claims processing, or enables compliant remote verification. Dating apps would pay for "verified real person" badges. Banks would pay for remote account opening. Stop trying to create a problem and start solving the expensive problems that already exist: Identity verification for financial services, social platforms, and gig economy (KYC/AML compliance) Professional tools for insurance, real estate, law enforcement, and healthcare documentation Enterprise authentication-as-a-service model
- shocks 1y agoJust shoot film.
- r2b2 1y agoThis camera's attestation and zero-knowledge proof cannot verify that a photo is not AI generated. Worse, those "verifications" may trick people into believing photos are trustworthy or authentic that are not. Similar to ad-clicks or product reviews, if this were to catch on, Roc cameras (and Roc camera farms) will be used to take photos of inauthentic photos. Ultimately, the only useful authenticity test is human reputation. If someone (or an organization) wants to be trusted as authentic, the best they can do is stake their identity on the authenticity of things they do and share, over and over.
- elif 1y agoWho's really going to check if I spoofed the camera sensor data, and why? Also does this mean I can't adjust colors or make any changes to my photos? I could see this being neat in the context of a digital detox photo competition or something, but I don't see any real place for this in Art world
- joelthelion 1y agoPossibly some serious media looking to authenticate news pictures?
- garfieldnate 1y agoAt some point I think it will be required for police bodycams and any security footage used in court to have this technology built in.
- velocity3230 1y agoI wonder if the ZKP stuff could be added to [Magic Lantern](https://www.magiclantern.fm/ https://www.magiclantern.fm/)?