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Apple takes down ICE tracking apps after pressure from DOJ
- aspenmayer 1y agohttps://archive.is/ZIqOO https://archive.is/ZIqOO
- DaiPlusPlus 1y agoMethinks this won’t be the last politically-motivated removal from Apple’s App Store; the more apps they remove then the more they weaken their own arguments about how a locked-in walled garden is in consumer interests.
- JKCalhoun 1y agoOh absolutely. Bondi demanded (!) they remove the app. Why would anyone think she won't demand they remove others?
- VladVladikoff 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- decremental 1y ago[dead]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- myvoiceismypass 1y agoYep, anything DNC-labeled or affiliated will be next on the ban list. Truly scary stuff, that tens of millions of fellow Americans are actively cheering on.
- EchoReflection 1y ago[flagged]
- sandworm101 1y agoAnd it is certainly also not the first.
- eviks 1y agoWhat was the first?
- sandworm101 1y agoNo idea, but i know that apple regularly responds to government takedown requests. This was from last year: https://www.wsj.com/tech/apple-removes-whatsapp-threads-from-china-app-store-on-government-orders-a0c02100 https://www.wsj.com/tech/apple-removes-whatsapp-threads-from... Apple even has a website about it: (there dozens of such takedowns each year.) https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/app-removal-requests-legal-violation.html https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/app-removal-request...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- worik 1y agoApple's "transparency" website is a website, but adds very little transparency
- x1unix 1y agoApple removed a lot of apps from the store in order to stay present in Russia. Just business
- tempodox 1y agoOnly goes to show how the U.S. are becoming more like Russia by the day.
- dovemoney 1y agoYes
- Cthulhu_ 1y agoThe big tech companies bent the knee (or, complied with local policies and laws) to Russia, China, Europe, etc already to do business over there, it's nothing particularly new but we are fully aware that Russia and China are not free countries, and Europe has stricter consumer / data protection laws (so it's less free for companies than the US).
- wizzwizz4 1y ago> Europe has stricter consumer / data protection laws (so it's less free for companies than the US) More free for the general populace, though (at least in this regard: I'm not making a holistic assessment in this sentence).
- worik 1y ago> we are fully aware that Russia and China are not free countries Pot to kettle....
- dspillett 1y agoJust business under an authoritarian regime. Things happening the way they happen in Russia is not exactly something I'd aspire to, or readily accept…
- buellerbueller 1y ago
- JuniperMesos 1y agoThis wasn't the first one either.
- Nervhq 1y agoYep they reap what they sow
- diego_moita 1y agoAnd it won't affect their branding in any relevant way. As "Amusing Ourselves to Death"[1] would explain, what almost all Apple consumers want is just FaceBook, WhatsApp, memes and games. Anything else is "boooring!". We live in an Idiocracy[2]. Deal with it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy
- codyb 1y agoI've started buying refurb, and will be heavily considering my upcoming electronics purchases. I encourage others to reduce consumption from companies which kowtow to this dangerous administration's demands and rhetoric. I've been boycotting Amazon as best I can for nearly a decade though since they had ambulances outside their warehouses and delivery workers pissing in gatorade bottles but reducing consumption of toxic brands can be done and is effective at sending messages when done en masse. I also boycott all the social media companies, Disney, Google as much as possible. Sadly, there's not a ton of options in this space (computer electronics). I've also e-mailed tim.cook@apple.com and expressed my opinions in a polite manner. Maybe someone read it. Who knows. Stand up, fight back!
- pcf 1y agoI like the thought, but AFAIK it doesn't really change the bottom line much, as long as you buy a used older product from a brand. Probably because the person selling it is buying a newer model, so you're still helping the company out. I might be wrong, though. But this was the initial conclusion I arrived at when I was researching whether to buy an iPhone 17, iPhone 15 Pro (used) or Android phone. Only the last option would probably hurt Apple directly. And only a liiiiiittle.
- idiotsecant 1y agoThat's nonsense. The choice is between you purchasing a new phone or you not purchasing a new phone. It's post hoc justification to assume that your dollars from buying a used unit will be used for something in particular. You made the decision you wanted and then built the logic to support it.
- slackfan 1y agoIt's by no means the first if you've been outside of the US. Glad to see we're moving in the direction of China, Russia, Europe, etc.
- imglorp 1y agoWho thinks it will stop at app removals? Remember CSAM and how it got withdrawn? https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Technical_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni... What if the government asks for sentiment analysis? Thoughtcrime detection? Always-on audio collection? Always-on location logging? All the things we were afraid of are simple technically and the only thing stopping it is a few executives of a trillion dollar company who must report earnings to shareholders.
- yubblegum 1y agoAll that you said coupled with (snooping) edge AI is the future.
- imglorp 1y agoSure, yes. The question is, will the corporations provide open access to the government for warrantless mass surveillance?
- yubblegum 1y agoWell, we're talking not just about "corporations", we are talking about entities with more gross earnings than most countries' GDP, e.g. Apple is sitting on billions of dollars in cash. These guys have the tech, the data, and oceans of money. Heck, some of them even have space forces :) Maybe in our (very near?) cyber punk future, it's not only goverments that we should be concerned about. After all, we have some measure of input regarding the goverment.
- nobody9999 1y ago>Maybe in our (very near?) cyber punk future, it's not only goverments that we should be concerned about. After all, we have some measure of input regarding the goverment. Why shouldn't we already be concerned about the corporations? They've been slurping our data and selling it for a profit for my whole life[0]. Sure, that sort of behavior started with banks and other financial institutions, but has extended, over the decades, to consumer products companies (P&G, General Mills, etc.) and to retailers (Walmart, Target, etc.), then into internet search (Google, Bing), "social" media (the Meta conglomerate, etc.), hardware and software companies (Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc.), communication devices (Apple, Google, Samsung, etc.), consumer electronics (LG, Samsung, GE, Maytag), Automobiles (GM, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota, etc., etc., etc.) and "IoT" devices (Amazon, Google and a host of others) are all hoovering up as much information as they can to both sell (and governments as well as other corporations are buying and paying through the nose) and use for "targeted" ads. Isn't your refrigerator showing you ads, your TV recording what you're doing while you use it, your phone reporting pretty much everywhere you go, everything you do and everyone with whom you communicate, social media apps recording every key stroke, even if it doesn't end up in a post, your car tracking both your movements and your driving behavior, your internet searches used to create detailed shadow profiles of your interests and purchasing habits. I could go on and on and on. Corporations are collecting levels of private data on people that would have been beyond the Stasi's[1] wildest dreams. And so I'll ask again, when, exactly, should we "start" to be concerned about corporate surveillance? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Credit_Reporting_Act#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Credit_Reporting_Act#Hist... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi
- snvzz 1y agoIt was an illegal app designed to aid in illegal interference with law enforcement. It is unsurprising for it to get removed, as companies must follow the law.
- dragonwriter 1y agoIt is not illegal to notice actions of government agents in public or to report them to others; it was a legal app designed to facility activity protected by the First Amendemnt.
- cooperq 1y agoit is actually not illegal at all to report on the locations of law enforcement. This is, in fact, protected speech.
- idiotsecant 1y agoA) it's not illegal, as evidenced by the fact that not a single person has been prosecuted. There is no law being broken, just the feel-feels of the surveillance state getting hurt. B) Even if there was a law, its the duty of every American to disobey unjust laws. The government serves at the pleasure of the people, not the other way around. There are a lot of people getting awfully comfortable with weak men ordering other jack booted weak men to systematically tear down what actually makes America great. I thought we settled this last time, but maybe we need to revisit the issue.
- trimethylpurine 1y ago>"it's the duty of every American to disobey unjust laws..." Is this what universities are teaching? Where did you get this from, honestly? This is a terrible assertion. The subjectivity of what is just or unjust would lead to overwhelming violent lawlessness if this were true. Thankfully, we have no such duty. Please, stand up for what you believe is right within the legal framework. This is a largely just society, by comparison. Maybe travel a bit to see what an unjust society looks like. Weigh your options, at least, before resorting to criminality as a lifestyle choice.
- Dig1t 1y agoThe left did this in the previous admin with Parler. This has been going on for a long time and Apple will not face any repercussions because it is abused by both sides of the political aisle.
- jaykru 1y agoanother day, another example of why we must all vigorously reject the campaign to stop users from installing software on their computers. stallman was right!
- JKCalhoun 1y agoNot to refute your point, but a trivial enough thing to create as a web site. I'm guessing that will come next (if one doesn't already exist).
- xp84 1y agoIndeed, not sure why it wasn’t a website already!
- lenkite 1y agoI guess the developers will need to learn HTML+CSS and self host this app on a Russian server. Will be good to showcase the freedom of the web! I am going to use this news to hit every lemming in the face - those who claim corpo-controlled walled gardens are good for you and grandma.
- james_marks 1y agoI’m not sure who you’re expecting to convert. Most people- thinking of people like my parents- think any app that hinders police must be a bad thing. The idea that something like ICEBlock is benevolent and doesn’t make the user a criminal by association just doesn’t register.
- jajuuka 1y agoNot surprising. The media hyped up the app and the admin hyper focused on it. Was bound to happen eventually since Apple wants to play nice with the government. Nice thing is it isn't the only one and others are multiplatform instead of iOS only. I'm doubtful we'll be seeing ICEblock show up in the iOS side load community.
- sherry-sherry 1y agoI'd love for all tech reviewers at future product launches to go: "Yeah cool new iPads thanks... why did you guys block and remove an app that wasn't illegal? One that helped people know if armed forces that could search them and tear apart their homes were in the area?". Just refuse to report on or post about new product launches without mentioning it. Press is an large thing for Apple. Multiple times now they've only sprung into action when the press got on their arse about something (faulty HDD cables/video cards in Macbook Pros, faulty keyboards, etc). Press getting on them could push them to take an actual stance, or at least explain why (bowing to the dictator in this case).
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y agoYeah but the press has to make money. They don't want to lose access, ultimately most of them want to be PR contractors for big companies Getting people off of for-profit news would be great, though I admit it's a blue sky proposal
- sherry-sherry 1y agoWhich is why all of them should, every single one. Ones who don't should be called out by others. Same thing at White House press conferences, push push push them relentlessly with questions that make them uncomfortable... make them squirm. Press who always allow the other side to control the narrative deserve to die out. I know this is all easier said than done, but holy crap we are making it so easy for them to walk over us right now, we could at least do something.
- jajuuka 1y ago
- saurik 1y agoFWIW, everyone who claims that Apple fundamentally needs the centralized ability to control apps on their platforms "for everyone's safety" -- despite how that obviously and repeatedly makes them become patsies for governments all over the world to enforce their censorship regimes -- are complicit in this stuff (in addition, of course, to the people who build it at Apple...).
- ipnon 1y agoWhat exactly do you mean by “complicit” in “this stuff”? What are you accusing?
- rockskon 1y agoQuite clearly accusing them of reducing public pressure against Apple putting itself in a position where it's doing exactly what it's doing right now.
- freedomben 1y agoYep. If you're advocating for a policy that leads directly to something, then you're kind of arguing in favor of that something
- no_wizard 1y agoIt’s a shame too, because Apple has the money and brand wherewithal to fight the government. See the FBI vs Apple stuff that happened years ago. That actually won them some real converts. Capitulating over this is Apple showing their supposed core values have significantly hollowed
- PokestarFan 1y agoIt was obvious Apple was going to bend the knee with that gold plaque.
- covercash 1y agoI wish Steve was still around for these battles. Tim Cook is such a pussy.
- zoklet-enjoyer 1y agoWhat's next, Waze?
- nsxwolf 1y agoThe analogy here is porn apps vs Safari.
- sandworm101 1y agoThis is the problem with the modern "app" way of doing things. This sort of thing would be best handled as a website so that users need not run specific software on thier phones. Reports can come in as basic emails parsed for a lat/long or grid. Then a kml file can be pushed as needed to a basic web-facing map. The bandwidth would be minimal and very resistant to shutdown. Heck, share the kml files via torrents or put the map server in tor if necessary. No apps required.
- sidewndr46 1y agoThe DOJ would just have the website host, the ISP, or the domain registrar revoke and terminate everything
- tdeck 1y agoIn practice this seems much more difficult to do than going after the app in the app store, particularly if you choose your registrar and hosting provider carefully.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- sandworm101 1y agoYa, the pirate bay is still online, so too innumerable similar sites once targeted by various agencies. A smallish map running on a RP plugged into tor would be very resiliant. But there is a bittorent protocol that allows for rolling updates to a torrent. That would be the best way to distribute kml files imho.
- fivestones 1y agoWhat’s this updatable BitTorrent protocol? I wished for something like this years ago as an auto-updating torrent for downloading Wikipedia with live (or daily or whatever) changes.
- mrinterweb 1y agoGoogle is making it so sideloading APKs on Android is no longer possible. This is one of many great reasons why that should not happen.
- layer8 1y agoGoogle disputes that: https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/09/lets-talk-security-answering-your-top.html https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/09/lets-talk-...
- VladVladikoff 1y ago>Verified developers will have the same freedom to distribute their apps directly to users through sideloading or through any app store they prefer. So it’s the same then. Google can just “unverify” a developer who has published an app the kings don’t approve of.
- papercrane 1y agoFor clarity, they're requiring apps to be signed by a verified developer on certified Android devices. You can still side load, but the verification is still required for the side loaded apps.
- fearless1ron 1y agoThis still means that Google is effectively gatekeeping what can be installed on the hardware you own and what cannot.
- DaiPlusPlus 1y agoFuture HN headline: Pam Bondi orders Google to revoke verification status and code signing certificates of authors of {partisan/politically-unfavourable Android app}
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
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- yieldcrv 1y ago> Authorities said the suspect, Joshua Jahn, searched his phone for tracking apps, including ICEBlock, before opening fire on the facility from a rooftop. Thats weird because you dont need iceblock to know that ICE is at an ICE facility Its for when they’re spotted in neighborhoods dumb rationale, dumb response
- aerostable_slug 1y agoJahn wasn't a big thinker. He used an iron-sighted old surplus rifle to shoot at vans that were filled with detainees rather than employees.
- scineram 1y ago[dead]
- sherry-sherry 1y agoGood. When ICE are targeting people without valid warrants and without providing due process, ICE should be met with resistance. People should not be kidnapped, even if by an officer. I’m not sure why you aren’t understanding this.
- rpdillon 1y agoAs soon as incentives start to diverge, centralized app stores look less benevolent.
- komali2 1y agoWhich is why people going back and forth about incentives has always driven me nuts. Attempting to make assurances based on this handle we crank called "human incentive" that may map to human behavior in the expected direction, the opposite direction, or no direction at all, is madness! We don't know. Humans are unsolved. Give me guarantees, or the closest approximation. Federation, distribution, dispersion of authority, interoperability.
- andsoitis 1y ago> Give me guarantees, What’s the incentive?
- tempodox 1y agoExactly. As long as this isn’t enforced by laws, it won’t happen. And then there are administrations that get away with just ignoring the law.
- komali2 1y agoYes, exactly, which is why counting laws as a part of the incentive mechanism is wrong to do. "They won't do that because they don't want to break the law." Laws are impossible to perfectly enforce and States are changeling things. Communities should create more dependable guarantees.
- komali2 1y agoWhy do you need one? Or why is there always a presumption of an incentive that maps to capitalist modes? I want decentralization because States oppress people and I want resistance to that to persist, others think like me such as the inventor of the Signal protocol hence why it was invented. If you need to describe that as incentive, cool beans.
- Zak 1y agoThis is exactly what's wrong with Apple's app store exclusivity. It's also what's wrong with mandatory notarization where regulations forbid that, and Google's plan to require developer verification.
- notyourwork 1y agoWebsites don’t need an App Store.
- Retr0id 1y agoThe brightest minds are working on this problem as we speak
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- chistev 1y agoI like this
- I_dream_of_Geni 1y agoGovernment agent: "We have top men working on it right now" Indiana Jones: " Who?" Government agent: "Top. Men."
- _aavaa_ 1y agoFor how long? The software on our primary machines used to not need blessing, but that too changed.
- hackernewds 1y agoas long as it needs to be uploaded onto to monopolies running cloud servers, domain hosters or financial processors this is why any corrupt government allows the monopolies like Google and Apple proliferate. easier to contain a few
- 1y ago
- pupppet 1y agoWhy would they make you do that, Tim? You gave them a trophy and everything.
- buellerbueller 1y agoI saw it incomment on some other HN post, but: The acquiescence of megacorps is essential for fascism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_collaboration_with_Na... JUST SAY NO!
- rekttrader 1y agoSo let’s level set… ICE can buy data from data brokers, and has active contracts with Cellubrite and Pegasus… but an organized opposition can only use rocks and spears. This isn’t a fascist regime at all.
- kranke155 1y agoFascism comes later. and until it happens and even after it happens people will be saying “it’s not so bad”
- charcircuit 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- bitpush 1y agoAh, yes. Apple - the "standing up to the government" company Apple did the whole show with FBI because it was convenient for them. They bend the knee faster than anyone when things get a little uncomfortable.
- jeroenhd 1y agoApple has always stood up to the government when there was money to be made. Claiming privacy protections sells iPhones. The people in China see nothing of the "standing up to the government" reputation and never really have. At least Google decided to pull out when the government started demanding they hand over data and apply censorship, Apple just complied and started storing data where the CCP can get to it.
- wstrange 1y agoReading the comments on that Fox site is depressing. A lot of hate for Apple, but for the wrong reasons (as in, completely missing the danger of centralized app stores..).
- toomuchtodo 1y agoThe median age for a Fox News viewer is 69, according to Nielsen.
- squigz 1y agoI wouldn't make the mistake of thinking comments on a Fox article are indicative of... anything, really.
- EasyMark 1y agoMost smell of foreign propaganda bots or unhinged political obsessives that I've seen
- bigyabai 1y agoI think this website overestimates the halo effect Apple garners with the commonfolk.
- mariodiana 1y agoBack in 2011, Apple removed apps that crowdsourced warnings about DUI checkpoints. It remains Apple's policy today. According to Grok, "In March 2011, four Democratic senators—Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), Harry Reid (D-Nev.), Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.), and Tom Udall (D-N.M.)—sent letters to Apple, Google, and Research in Motion (BlackBerry's parent company) urging the removal of such apps […]" So, we have precedent where four Democratic senators pressured Apple to remove an app that allowed people to evade law enforcement.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Spivak 1y agoAnd it was wrong then too. Preventing people from sharing publicly available, literally visible from the street, information has got to be the brightest line violation of 1A. I'm really over how much the supreme court—not just this supreme court—has let the government end run around the constitution using tricks like this. Especially with the tax and spend power. If the government couldn't pass a law doing X then the government shouldn't be allowed to achieve X by any means. Congressional dysfunction isn't an excuse to allow the creation of a shadow government orchestrated by the executive but here we are.
- Nervhq 1y agoJust side load it apple user! Surely the great apple would never lock you in to a walled garden?
- magicalist 1y ago> to remove an app that allowed people to evade law enforcement. No, they continued to allow police location apps (Google maps will even tell you where they are). The language they added to the app store rules were very specific: "Apps may only display DUI checkpoints that are published by law enforcement agencies, and should never encourage drunk driving or other reckless behavior such as excessive speed." Whether or not that was a good idea at the time (it wasn't), you can't claim this is covered by the same guidelines.
- softwaredoug 1y agoCan the same functionality be accomplished with mobile web?
- moelf 1y agocan they do push notification (e.g. when ICE agents show up near your zipcode)
- VladVladikoff 1y agoYes push notifications are possible on mobile web.
- pylotlight 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- zb3 1y agoApple is working hard to make sure the answer is no (by not implementing advanced PWA APIs in WebKit and by not allowing other browser engines on iOS).
- duxup 1y ago“It’s ok when our guy does it!” -SCOTUS majority, American GOP.
- bamboozled 1y agoHe is just joking...
- scineram 1y ago[dead]
- Artoooooor 1y agoDoes it have to be an application? Why not just a website?
- layer8 1y agoThose can be requested to be taken down as well...
- fearless1ron 1y agoHost it in a country with free speech then
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y agoWhich is...?
- layer8 1y agoThat doesn’t prevent being blocked in other countries.
- magicalist 1y agoSure, but "fuck you, make me" continues to be the best course of action. If they threaten to block you, make them, don't give up in advance.
- valleyer 1y agoYup, that's what I wish Apple would do here.
- aerostable_slug 1y agoNo need for actual free speech. Host it in Russia, China, Venezuela, Iran, DPRK, or any other strategic adversary of the United States. The success of ICEBlock is 100% inline with their information warfare goals. The more strife they can spread, the more protests, the more violence, the more confrontations, and the more 'noise' that gets made about ICE in the US, the better for them. That doesn't mean the developer of ICEBlock is anti-American, just that there's a common interest in seeing his project succeed.
- fzeroracer 1y ago[flagged]
- gottorf 1y ago> There's nothing stopping ICE from raiding where you live and destroying your shit. This isn't specific to ICE, and sovereign immunity especially around law enforcement is a topic that has been contested for a while. Every now and then there's a story that pops up of some innocent's house being destroyed due to a clerical error leading the local SWAT team to look for drugs at the wrong address.
- magicalist 1y ago> This isn't specific to ICE It absolutely is specific to ICE when they get to do it to 125 apartment units at once by taking everybody in an entire building, regardless of immigration status, and detaining them for hours, then leaving them with smashed doors and broken possessions. But, oh, it's "been contested for a while", so let's definitely downplay it.
- JuniperMesos 1y agoThe power to detain a bunch of people for hours when it's not clear if any of them have committed a crime is a power the cops already have, and use from time to time. And ordinary city cops, not just ICE specifically.
- fzeroracer 1y agoRight but the difference is in both scale and rationale. Do you believe it would be acceptable for your door to be broken down and all of your stuff confiscated because you happened to live in the same building as an illegal immigrant? Because that is the literal event we're talking about here.
- gottorf 1y ago
- amazingamazing 1y agoWhy are people so obsessed about apps. could be a website that couldn’t easily be taken down.
- moelf 1y agowhat if you want a push notification when ICE agents appear in your work area?
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- CharlesW 1y agohttps://web.dev/articles/push-notifications-web-push-protocol https://web.dev/articles/push-notifications-web-push-protoco...
- jeroenhd 1y agoWithout a VAPID key identifiable by Apple, those notifications won't arrive.
- adam_hn 1y agoYes, but in that case, it will be less likely to be blocked because the people requesting the blocking are not competent enough to ask for it. Don't get me wrong, I wish this were not the case, but why let the perfect be the enemy of the good enough?
- softwaredoug 1y agoMaybe an SMS based approach would be preferred over an app notification.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y agoExpensive for the host though
- bigfatkitten 1y agoThankfully, there is no reason why any of these apps need to be native apps.
- WrongOnInternet 1y agoIMHO, this is just another example of something that would be better off as a website/webapp than a native app. If anything, having an app that tracks ICE agents installed on your device seems more like a liability than an asset.
- floatin 1y agoWill teach some friends how to side load this and tell them to each teach 2-3 friends.
- kumarvvr 1y ago[flagged]
- gottorf 1y agoTake a breath. Obama drone-struck and killed more than one American citizen. Biden's rhetoric against his political opponents was no less "fascist" than Trump's. Do you find yourself nostalgic for the civility of the McCain-era Republicans? He was called a Nazi by his detractors, as well. Trump doesn't hold a candle to FDR when it comes to being an authoritarian.
- kumarvvr 1y ago> Biden's rhetoric against his political opponents was no less "fascist" than Trump's. Can you point to any speeches that Biden gave, that talk about sending troops to republican majority cities? > Trump doesn't hold a candle to FDR when it comes to being an authoritarian He holds a lighthouse.
- snickerbockers 1y ago>that talk about sending troops to republican majority cities not that specifically but he did actually threaten to use nuclear weapons against american citizens. although FWIW it looks to me more like a manifestation of his advanced-stage alzheimer's than an intentional threat. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SHLHkmWoYDU https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SHLHkmWoYDU >He holds a lighthouse. FDR is the one who illegally imprisoned 120k ethnically-japanese people (including at least 80k US citizens) in concentration camps solely on the basis of a hypothesized loyalty to the country their ancestors came from.
- kumarvvr 1y agoTrump does a dozen FDRs a day, going by the news that's coming out. I find it so funny the mental gymnastics people do to justify his actions, especially with whataboutisms. Sure maybe FDR was bad. Right now trump is bad, and that should be addressed.
- scarface_74 1y agoWhy does this need to be an app?
- toukale 1y agoWhy are we asking for profits companies to fight our fights? I am reading lots of comments from keyboard warriors. For profits companies are not there to fight citizens fights. You don't want this kind of stuff to happen, then people need to fight their governments and demand better and stop relying on for profits entities to do so.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> Why are we asking for profits companies to fight our fights? Why not? If you can pressure someone into fighting your fight for you, you do it.
- jkestner 1y agoThat profit is an effective lever. I don’t have a lever in elections because of the electoral college.
- mac-attack 1y agoFor-Profit companies have an outsized impact on our day-to-day and have the ear of the current administration. Citizens United allows their voice to be heard politically (where they again have an outsized impact). I'm curious why they can lobby to impact the lives we live and our access to information, and their CEO can donate a million to the inauguration but suddenly they deserve the right to fade into the background and stay out of it all?
- sherry-sherry 1y agoApple makes huge claims about their involvement in advancing things like inclusion and diversity, workers rights, privacy rights, equity and justice. They literally sell pride merch which they make a profit from. Apple market themselves as being an ethical choice of companies regarding human rights, when they throw that out the window with shit like this, people get pissed.
- kashunstva 1y ago> Why are we asking for profits companies to fight our fights? Maybe we're not asking them to fight our fights, but to stop tipping the scales one way or the other. There's a difference between asking them to aid progressive or regressive causes vs. actually staying neutral. If it's too big a moral burden on Apple or Google, then allow us to run whatever we want on our devices.
- awnird 1y ago[flagged]
- exabrial 1y agoMonopolies are bad ideas for so many reasons. The government has recently learned they actually like them
- snickerbockers 1y agoI don't want to fall into the fallacy of implying that this is somehow justified because of something "the left" did a few years ago but I would like to highlight the hypocrisy of how many people were totally okay with this sort of executive censorship when Biden was in charge. > "We reached out to Apple today demanding they remove the ICEBlock app from their App Store — and Apple did so," Bondi said in a statement to Fox News Digital. I don't think this is something that trump or biden should be allowed to do, but the classic argument that your constitutional right to free speech ends when the president "politely" asks a software company to censor you on his behalf and they acquiesce is equally [in]valid in both situations.
- daveidol 1y agoAbsolutely. The Biden administration was censoring posts (even memes) on Meta platforms during COVID, according to Zuckerberg.
- JuniperMesos 1y agoI have never voluntarily owned an Apple smartphone or tablet, and a huge reason why is because I care a lot about being able to run software on it that Apple doesn't approve of for whatever reason.
- waltbosz 1y agoAre people using non app work arounds ? Could the app be replaced with a SMS tree https://notbau.com/how-to-create-and-manage-a-manual-call-tree/ https://notbau.com/how-to-create-and-manage-a-manual-call-tr...
- mdhb 1y agoIt could be replaced with a fucking web app if they built it properly the first time around.
- jeroenhd 1y agoDo you know a good way to do geofencing on PWAs? I'm not saying you can't, but I don't know of any API that can accomplish that (without constantly running GPS location updates in the browser, which no standard phone will allow).
- waltbosz 1y agoI'm unfamiliar with these apps. What is geofencing used for? Automatically alert you if there is ICE activity nearby so that you can drop what you're doing to converge ?
- burnerthrow008 1y agoI believe it serves two purposes: 1. Reduce false reports by ensuring that activity reports are reasonably geographically near the reporter's location 2. Send alerts to people who are near a cluster of reports.
- jeroenhd 1y agoThere's an alerting feature and an attempt to stop false reports. The map part is trivial (and I think someone is already scraping the locations into a web app), but the geofencing capabilities are more difficult.
- inerte 1y ago
- appleFanboy25 1y ago[flagged]
- michaelhoney 1y agoeven ones who are being used as weapons against their own country?
- appleFanboy25 1y ago[flagged]
- sherry-sherry 1y agoThe app doesn't do that. It gives people a heads up that constitution-hating armed forces are in the area, forces that can search you and tear up your home without a warrant. This is happening now. Armed and masked intruders who don't have to identify themselves should be forced out of cities. Those federal employees should be shunned for the rest of their lives for blindly enforcing the whims of a dictator.
- appleFanboy25 1y ago> Armed and masked intruders You mean federal law enforcement officers > The app doesn't do that. With a name like ICEBLOCK, how would one ever come to the conclusion that the app might be blocking federal law enforcement from carrying out their sworn duties! > enforcing the whims of a dictator. You mean a president that was elected twice. The hysteria really does make me laugh.
- sherry-sherry 1y agoFederal law enforcement officers who swore an oath to the country… not the president. They can and should push back against this shit. The app doesn’t block them in any way, it just lets people see where they are active. There is no issue or law against that. He actively disregards laws and standards to push his own agenda. He’s been indicted multiple times, and is a felon. It’s not hysteria, some people can simply see what’s happening in front of them. He openly admires dictators and desperately seeks what they have, with varying success. You don’t make me laugh, you make me sad.
- roamerz 1y ago[flagged]
- sixothree 1y agoWhich law is this app breaking?
- roamerz 1y agoI think it’s more about liability that specifically breaking a law. I’m not a lawyer but Apple is knowingly publishing an app that is openly helping people evade and/or break the law AND is putting Law Enforcement in danger. Seems there is some liability there.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- valleyer 1y agoAvoiding being where ICE agents are is not against the law. Even being in the country while eligible for deportation is not against the law. Crossing the border not at a designated point of crossing is against the law; this app is not for that.
- roamerz 1y ago>>Avoiding being where ICE agents are is not against the law. Sure if you are the one avoiding arrest. How about if you rob a bank and I help you evade arrest? You could make a case that these apps are doing something similar. With a good prosecutor I wouldn't want to take my chances defending myself against that. >>Crossing the border not at a designated point of crossing is against the law; this app is not for that. True - but to argue the point - it could be used for that. If you had a map of where ICE/Border Patrol was it might aid in a successful crossing. Probably a bit OT though.
- sherry-sherry 1y ago
- ChrisArchitect 1y ago17 years on from the App Store we're still trying to get people to wrap their heads around just using websites. And to think probably all of the users of the app are finding out about it via a LINK in a message or social post.
- davidw 1y ago"Do what we say or you get the tariffs". Straight up corrupt mob boss shit.
- pmdulaney 1y agoI'm not a lawyer and I have no insider information, but I wouldn't be surprised if Apple is concerned that if anything happened to an ICE agent, they could be criminally and civilly liable if it could be shown that the attacker became aware of the location of the agent through use of the app.
- richardatlarge 1y agoAbsolutely not the case, imagine the implications if so
- akmarinov 1y agoExhibit A on why sideloading must be allowed and why Europe is right on this
- burnt-resistor 1y ago[flagged]
- JuniperMesos 1y agoIf I had to guess who was most likely to be illiterate between: - employees of major American tech companies like Apple - ICE agents - illegal immigrants I would bet on illegal immigrants every time, especially if we're restricting the question to literacy in English specifically.
- simianparrot 1y agoICE tracking apps put ICE agents in danger, and the same kind of app for, say, tracking Meta employees or “people who wear Team Blue T-shirts” or any other group would obviously be a danger as well. How on earth do people find this controversial..?
- mock-possum 1y agoIs turnabout no longer fair play, then?
- scineram 1y ago[dead]
- sherry-sherry 1y agoICE puts people in danger and disregards their due process. When a group is performing unconstitutional activities they should be tracked and stopped where possible.
- simianparrot 1y agoThere's individual cases of unconstitutional behaviour, but ICE itself isn't unconstitutional. It was unconstitutional to effectively lock people in their homes during covid, but it was done anyway.
- sherry-sherry 1y agoIt’s unconstitutional to raid an entire apartment building and force everyone out as they search for potential “illegals” to take away without due process. We are far beyond a couple an individual cases, it’s become the norm. Stay at home orders for health reasons are constitutional. Also, in countries that had stricter rules far fewer people died. When bringing comparisons to a discussion… check if you’re right, and maybe check if it’s even a good comparison.
- 1y ago
- sschueller 1y agoThere you have it. The thing everyone has been warning about regarding Apple's walled garden 10 years ago and now you have Google working on implementing the same walled garden. If it can be abused, it will be abused.
- sschueller 1y agoWouldn't it technically be possible to setup a website instead and use PWA push[1]? You would still need a certificate from Apple which I guess they can terminate as well... [1] https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/sending-web-push-notifications-in-web-apps-and-browsers https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/...
- Nervhq 1y agoNo worries apple users! Just side load it.... Oh.. Wait...
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- saubeidl 1y ago[flagged]
- perihelions 1y agoRelated old thread, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21210678 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21210678 ("Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store" (2019); 893 comments)
- piokoch 1y agoI keep wondering how all of this ICE stuff will eventually play out. Number of illegal emigrants in the USA is estimated to be between 11-20 millions. How much does it cost to send ICE team after a single emigrant? Then holding this emigrant in custody, then costs of deportation to the country of origin. This looks like another enterprise like "war on terror" that costed trillions, hasn't given anything USA, but lack of money for infrastructure, healthcare, education and degradation of the middle class, which is in every democracy a stabilizing power - they have a lot of to lose, so they don't vote on extremists. Current administration is very right about bringing back manufacturing back to USA, but they forget that without roads, railways, electricity lines and, the most important, workforce, they will not be able to do that.
- immibis 1y agoIt doesn't matter whether it's effective. This is all about riling up emotions, propaganda, winning (or preventing) the next election. Actual effect is barely relevant. Brown-skinned people aren't the enemy team - they're the ball.
- saubeidl 1y agoImmigration enforcement is just a pretense to create a squad of unaccountable goons, hiding their identity using masks. The real purpose is to establish an unaccountable form of political violence and intimidation, similiar to the Sturmabteilung in 1920's Germany. The famous "First they came for..." poem comes to mind.
- vorpalhex 1y agoOnly about 20% of people deported have been rounded up by ICE, etc - the rest have chosen self deportation. If I had to mind read the admin, I would imagine they intend ICE to go after the hardened criminals who, making a profit or being wanted, won't self deport under any circumstance. Meanwhile most people who have just migrated illegally will generally self deport or do a really good job of blending in. Obviously ICE is still going to sweep up anyone and everyone they can. The fed exists, and has always existed, to be a boot not a scalpel. In theory local law enforcement is supposed to be the more targeted localized tool but because immigration enforcement has become partisan, they are either restricted from doing anything migration related or are going overboard to suck up to the fed. Systems out of alignment grow more severe.
- latexr 1y agoIt’s Hong Kong and HKMap.live all over again. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49995688 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49995688
- perihelions 1y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21210678 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21210678 ("Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store" (2019); 893 comments)
- sleight42 1y agoTyranny demands its control.
- seydor 1y agoWhy is this even an app, it should obviously be a web app
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- yrro 1y agoAdd Apple to the list of collaborators who need to be punished once the regime is overthrown.
- dandanua 1y agoOverthrown by whom? Aliens? Power supports power, there is no way out of this black hole.
- yrro 1y agoThe neat thing about the US is that governments are overthrown regularly by automatic operation of law: 12pm on the 20th of January 2028, in the case of the 47th president. I'm sure you know this but I feel everyone needs to remind themselves of this immutable fact regularly until then.
- dandanua 1y agoYou are 8 months in since your last 20th of January and your chief turd already collected all top military officials and started his speech by intimidating them. There is no such thing as "automatic operation of law".
- Vegenoid 1y ago> immutable Do not make the mistake of believing laws are as concrete as code. There are many, many instances throughout history of the powerful people who are responsible for enforcing the laws, deciding to suddenly change or ignore them.
- sleight42 1y agoTrue. But not if the game is rigged by gerrymandering. Or a false emergency used as an excuse to delay the election. Or...
- baobun 1y agoHe seems set on causing enough turmoil that elections would be postponed due to war, civil or otherwise. I bet he got the idea from looking at Zelensky in Ukraine.
- bamboozled 1y agoAmerica, you really owned the libs. I cannot believe it's really happening. Few months ago it was just jokes...
- ratelimitsteve 1y agoit was never jokes. that's what we tried to tell everyone ten years ago.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- ndkap 1y agoIsn't this the company that was commended for not bowing down to pressure from FBI?
- geodel 1y agoSo every issue in the world is same issue?
- resters 1y agoEverything in the ICE tracking apps can be done as a web page. Good luck to MAGA trying to stop this, but the ugliness of ICE tactics will inspire a lot of people to build some very good technology to stop it.
- jmclnx 1y agoI do not go to any fox sites, so here is a dup using a different news site for this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45461951 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45461951 No surprise here, all companies would do the same. But I was planning on moving to Apple once my current Android fails, not now. I am hoping the Linux Phone I hear about advances to the point where my Cell Service supports it. Will see because I am pretty much done with Android and Apple.
- dspillett 1y ago[flagged]
- paulvnickerson 1y ago[flagged]
- patcon 1y agoThis creeping authoritarianism is why Google's play to force developer registration (before allowing a developers apps to be installed on android) is so irresponsible of Google: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45017028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45017028 It's like they don't understand what's possible to be coerced into from there. They cite "danger to users" as the rationale, but their imagination of danger is so damn limited
- paxys 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- ActionHank 1y agoYou're not considering that they were already coerced into forced dev registration.
- richwater 1y ago> This creeping authoritarianism Surely you must see the other side of this in that there is massive fraud taking place via Android phones?
- OutOfHere 1y agoThere is even more massive fraud taking place within Google's ecosystem of approved apps on Android. Google does nothing at all about it for the simple reason that Google cashes in on a percentage of the loot. I myself have been scammed by two apps that claimed to offer specific services, but they didn't offer them. Most privately installed apps are for open source degoogled software that doesn't want to bother with Google.
- criddell 1y ago> their imagination of danger is so damn limited I wouldn't pretend to understand the Android app ecosystem better than Google. A charitable guess would be that Google understands that forcing developer registration will introduce more risk for some people, but overall the total risk over the entire population is reduced. It's a net benefit.
- ge96 1y agomakes me think of alternative ways to share apps like through QR codes but that's a potential honeypot too and also the extra knowledge to do that really sucks ease of use is a 2 edge sword
- FollowingTheDao 1y agoSignal is next,
- ActionHank 1y agoUnlikely, they're all using it.
- tiahura 1y agoI would take this as more confirmation that the administration will be taking action to counter the European shakedown of Apple. I would expect 50%+ tariffs on LVMH before the end of the year.
- thejazzman 1y agoi strongly disagree with the notion that apple is being shaken down and am thankful somebody is doing something to keep them (at least partially) in check..
- ReptileMan 1y agoThey also removed app that tracked us drone strikes all over the world IIRC like 13 years ago. So probably nothing new under the sun. The joy of appstores and walled gardens.
- 05 1y agoIf Russian sanctioned banks regularly manage to get their updated apps through App Store “review”, surely ICEBlock devs can register a shell company and do the same, then text the install link to all current users..
- SnuffBox 1y agoI don't see the problem. It was an app specifically developed to help people evade American law and attack people who work for the government, how is it a shock that they took it down?
- hyperhello 1y agoOr was the takedown designed to help ICE evade American law?
- nickthegreek 1y agoApple maps tells you when you are near a cop on the highway in order to evade the law.
- Cabal 1y agoSame. This app was specifically used to incite violence against law enforcement.
- bigyabai 1y agoYou need to be careful, the word "incite" does not mean what you think it does here. Maybe the app enabled violence against law enforcement - but Waymo does that too by telling you where traffic cops are. Or Google Maps and Yellow Pages for documenting the location of police stations. Undercover officers, ICE or otherwise, aren't given any special exemptions to the law here.
- docmars 1y ago"Apple takes down illegal app criminals used to circumvent law enforcement" FTFY Fox :)
- ratelimitsteve 1y agowhat's illegal about talking to people about what you saw in public?
- docmars 1y agoGive me a break, don't play word games. If you created an app that essentially doxed police and schemed ways to circumvent their ability to enforce the law, I'd hope you would get in trouble for that, especially if it compromised the safety of those you care about, don't you agree?
- troad 1y agoWhat word games is he playing? You're making a factual claim about the legality of something, and you're being directly queried on the veracity of that claim. Given that it's legal (in the US) to film/livestream cops so long as they are not obstructed in the commission of their duties, and in the wider context of the First Amendment, I find it relatively hard to believe that merely reporting cop sightings is illegal. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/02/yes-you-have-right-film-ice https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/02/yes-you-have-right-fil... It is widely agreed that transparency and accountability in policing makes for better policing.
- docmars 1y agoTell me, why are police scanners illegal in some states when used to aid in evading police or used to facilitate criminal activity? How is ICEBlock any different? And please, don't play dumb.
- troad 1y agoYou're confidently asserting things that are legally unsupported, while accusing everyone else of being dumb. Rein it in, champ. Using police scanners to listen to unencrypted radio chatter is legal in all states. In minority of states, using police scanners is not legal while driving, and in all states it is not legal to use police scanners to aid in the commission of a crime. This is not that different from the laws that apply to, say, cellphones. You generally can't use those to commit crimes or while driving either. And yet, saying that 'cellphones are illegal' is obviously not an accurate representation of reality. The bottom line here is that it is deeply unlikely that a court would find ICEBlock illegal. You may very well dislike that outcome, but it rather seems like your problem is with the Bill of Rights. In which case I can only recommend moving to a country without one - there are sadly very many.
- kjsingh 1y agoI guess all it will take is for all bird-watcher apps to add an option for ICE Agents? We do have those right?
- rolph 1y agoinstall the "i saw waldo" app. i dropped my tack on the map; i saw waldo about 100 feet to the north.
- furyofantares 1y agoI can't find any such app.
- rolph 1y agothen we will have to build it, i assume you get the gist already?
- ratelimitsteve 1y agoWe're preemptively complying with the fascists. It's illegal to talk about what you see in public now.
- throwaway106382 1y ago[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- jMyles 1y agoBeing able to instantly know the locations of our friends and of threats to them (whether in the form of other people, natural disasters, fires, anything!) is such an obvious benefit to public safety in the information age. It's one of the things that will finally allow us to supplant the yoke of the state, by having our own decentralized emergency response systems. When will we realize this benefit? Do we really have to wait for Apple to fall?
- recursive 1y agoApple falling will be insufficient, as another overlord will take over. Host your own is probably the only answer.
- CodeCompost 1y agoWell why do you need an app store for this? Can't you just ... I donnow ... create a webpage with OpenStreetMap integration?
- poly2it 1y agoI'm not saying it is the case, but considering other tactics employed by ICE, this sounds like something they could deploy as a honeypot to profile potential targets.
- recursive 1y agoIs that a difference from publishing an app on the app store?
- tredre3 1y agoThey could and they could even make it a PWA so it would be on the home screen and able to send notifications. But they only want to support native iOS for whatever reason (they've listed their reasons: https://www.iceblock.app/android https://www.iceblock.app/android, I just don't personally believe them to be technically accurate/truthful).
- Hikikomori 1y agoIt is a webpage, they just had an app to view it.
- nebula8804 1y agoAnswered by the developer here: https://youtu.be/Pm4tC2Mnabs?t=25358 https://youtu.be/Pm4tC2Mnabs?t=25358
- rognjen 1y agoDoes not seem like a thought out answer. It's harder to be anon with an app that with a web page because you have to cater for all the web things PLUS Android.
- t1234s 1y agoThis was the correct move from apple. Tools like this used to crowdsource location data of law enforcement can be used for malicious purposes.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Hikikomori 1y ago"law enforcement" is charitable.
- ajross 1y agoAs gets pointed out, that justification is post hoc; the argument wasn't made when the app was introduced, only after the ban. It's also leaning hard on "can be" and just letting the reader infer what "malicious" means. Clearly the intent is that protestors can show up to disrupt enforcement actions. Is that what you mean? If so, you should say so. But it's also just plain overbroad: the same logic applies to Waze flagging of speed traps, which are also "crowd sourced law enforcement location data". Basically this is bunk. The app got banned because the government doesn't want its enforcement actions disrupted by protestors, and whined[1] to Apple to coerce them into a ban. [1] Plausibly threatened. It's not alleged here but they did it to Disney and Paramount already.
- pseudalopex 1y ago> Clearly the intent is that protestors can show up to disrupt enforcement actions. Was this your claim or your description of someone else's claim? You and the ICEBlock developer compared it to Waze. People use Waze to avoid speed traps. Not protest them.
- ajross 1y ago> People use Waze to avoid speed traps. Not protest them. Exactly! So it is about protest then? You don't want people to show up and display their displeasure at the execution of a particular policy? Y'know, peaceably assembling and petitioning for redress of grievances and all? You don't maybe see a first amendment argument here? Upthread commenter dropped "malicious" to imply something presumably worse, like threats to law enforcement officers that haven't been made. But if it's just about protest then we have a prior restraint on speech. And that's worse.
- cyanydeez 1y agoDefinitely a job for PWA. Checkout quasar.dev
- puppycodes 1y agoTheres so much technology out there that reports a location with an alert you would figure you could literally make this app with an ios shortcut
- dangisafaggot26 1y ago[flagged]
- akagusu 1y agoWhy this was flagged?
- jay_kyburz 1y agoYeah, I think there is a legitimate discussion here about walled gardens, tech, and the role it will play it will play in troubled times. Legal is not always moral, and Apple has shown they will side with those in power, _not_ with those who own the tech. If Apple is prepared to do this, what else are they prepared to snitch on your for.
- biaachmonkie 1y ago[flagged]
- bambax 1y agoWe don't need to respect those companies or the people inside it. They will gladly suck up to any government if it earns them a dollar more. They're trash.
- specialist 1y agoNeed to get crafty. Make ICE spotting a plausibly deniable covert subtext via an otherwise popular medium. Like (probably apocryphal) Jesus fish. Both Pokemon and Polytopia have ice themed combatants, right? Whenever you see some masked thugs staging for another round of terror, start a match as one of those tribes, trainers, or whatever. Build a certain kind of (creature) deck recognizable by anyone "in the know". Use some kind of slang. Like WWII's code talkers. I don't actually know how Pokemon and the multiplayer Polytopia work. But y'all get the idea. I keep thinking of the "slug bug" game bored kids play in the back seat. See a VW Beetle, yell "slug bug" first, and then punch your sibling. I think "Eye Spy" is the nice version. Do mobile games like that exist? Surely someone's done it. A Foursquare for kids. Or something. Again, y'all get the idea.
- insane_dreamer 1y agoGood thing we still have web apps.