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F-Droid and Google’s developer registration decree
- sn0n 1y agoI turned on "Advanced Protection" a couple weeks ago, and promptly turned it off the other day when it blocked f-droid updates. What a scam android has become.
- abraham 1y ago> What a scam android has become. An optional advanced security feature targeted at non-typical users doesn't seem like a good indicator of this statement.
- 63stack 1y agoHow is blocking fdroid updates an "advanced security feature"?
- usr1106 1y agoSamsung [^1] has an autoblocker. I have no idea what it does exactly. I always need to turn it off while installing or updating anything from F-droid. Then I enable it again in the naive hope it might prevent dome drive-by attack. [^1]: My employer paid for it. I never would pay for the crapware full of uninstallable stuff I don't want. Is Pure Android still a thing if you don't want to pay The Evil Company?
- mjd 1y agoI've been using Motorola for years, for that reason.
- pogue 1y agoInterestingly, I read in a recent article on upcoming features for OneUI 8.5 (based on a leaked build) is the "Ability to temporarily disable Auto Blocker" [1]. This is specifically to allow the sideloading of apps. That really makes me wonder why Samsung would have such an option in an upcoming version if they were aware that Google is planning to block all unverified sideloading in the very near future. [1] https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-galaxy-phones-new-upcoming-features-one-ui-8-5-3600158/ https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-galaxy-phones-new-u...
- gmueckl 1y agoTwoo scenarios: 1. Samsung hasn't adjusted the product roadmap yet. 2. Samaung plans to modify Android to remove the extra checks that Google wants.
- codedokode 1y agoI have a Samsung and I can install apps from F-Droid. I don't even understand what is "Auto Blocker" and why you need it when there are permissions, but I have it disabled.
- pipe01 1y agoNothingOS is as clean as it gets
- justsomehnguy 1y ago
- modeless 1y agoIf Google really goes through with this I might seriously consider GrapheneOS. At least Pixel hardware ought to still support unlocking the bootloader. But for how long...
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y agoI have installed Graphene and Lineage in the last couple months and had good experiences. Easy as ever. Not on my daily driver though
- usr1106 1y agoI already use 2 Android phones. One for main usage without the evil company. Another one with 2 apps from Playstore installed; it would cost me significant money not to use one of the duopolists there. I really hate having to pay the Google/Apple tax. The only choice I have is to decide which bad actor receives it. (Typing this on my 3rd phone, Sailfish OS. Unfortunately the software lacks sufficient maintenance efforts and the hardware does not suit me for primary phone use)
- pabs3 1y agoGrapheneOS will help with being able to install F-Droid, apps from it and sideload other apps, but it means you will be blocked from installing government/other apps, so you will need a second phone with an Apple/Google OS. https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide#apps-banning-grapheneos https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-gu...
- ycombinatrix 1y agoregulators asleep as usual
- vinibrito 1y agoI was waiting for fdroid's voice about this. Google's move is as bad as I initially thought. This makes me a bit sad honestly, android development is getting worse every year. I wonder if the same will happen to web as well.
- whatshisface 1y agoThe EU age verification system for the web is currently planned to rely on the Android/iOS anti-tampering device controls: https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technical-specification/issues/18 https://github.com/eu-digital-identity-wallet/av-doc-technic.... None of the plans to achieve China's level of internal control over communication can work without banning all user-administrated devices from the web, so I guess that's what you can expect next.
- rtpg 1y ago> None of the plans to achieve China's level of internal control over communication can work without banning all user-administrated devices from the web Not that I want that future, but it's not like China has banned all user-administrated devices from the web. Seems odd to say this is necessary when, axiomatically, China has China's level of internal control over communication. There's a part of me that really wishes that we could have policies around things like age verification that implictly understand the existence of workarounds and accept them. If we're going to have these policies, anyways.
- dudisubekti 1y agoEven China doesn't rely on controlling information from the user-side, they know any devices can be hacked lol. They rely more on controlling the server-side (WeChat, Douyin, Weibo, Bilibili, etc) and infrastructure (GFW). Well mostly, aside from some exceptions like (allegedly) Apple's AirDrop limitations. Many Chinese brands still support unlockable bootloader: https://github.com/melontini/bootloader-unlock-wall-of-shame?tab=readme-ov-file https://github.com/melontini/bootloader-unlock-wall-of-shame... Although going forward, there's a strong incentive for manufacturers to follow Google and lock their devices.
- DevelopingElk 1y agoI wonder what would happen if F droid signed all software under their keys even though they aren't the developer? Make Google ban them instead of just giving up?
- zx8080 1y agoAny centralisation like this is bad: it's too easy for Google to delete all f-droid apps with their play protect one day.
- Aachen 1y agoOkay so the options are: - don't exist - exist until you get deleted You seriously prefer the former?
- zx8080 1y agoAre you serious? There are more options than you think (or try to convince others). I do prefer control over what I can install to my computer be it a box or a mobile one, and control on what runs there.
- Aachen 1y agoOkay so people can choose to buy a second device and do some things there (until chatcontrol 3.1 finally is approved by parliament anyway), but for the device that's basically mandatory for normal life now, what other options than "work with the system" or "don't" does F-Droid have? I'll probably end up doing that btw. For now I'm still fighting the "have control on 1 device" battle, simply not using things that require a locked DRM state (no 2FA government login for example, limited bank choices, soon no age verification, etc.) until that's no longer tenable for me. I'll be among the last 0.02% to give in, judging by how it's going today (not even 99% of tech people seem to care that they're not the admin on their own device). We're on the same side with the same goals here, but I'm simultaneously also looking at what realistic remaining options are for my friends, family, and semi-child
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- rock_artist 1y agoSadly, our current age of computing is getting locked in devices. Not only most computing today is SoC with closed drivers but it's actively locking the user. Ironically it all started with Cydia and "hacking" the iPhone until executives understood they can make a cut. The EU did help to some extent by requesting Apple to enable non-appstore apps. but sadly, instead of doing the right thing of simply having a user switch that allows me to decide if I want to put my device at risk, they went with provisioning that seems to be agreed. So now, we're getting the same slap from Google/Android which I must say very strangely gets blessing from very specific governments: > The requirement goes into effect in Brazil, Indonesia, Singapore, and Thailand. At this point, any app installed on a certified device in these regions must be registered by a verified developer.
- instagib 1y agoThere are so many scams going around many nations they are resorting to whatever they can do to stem the flow of scams. You can still install via cable or adb but less tricking peoples grandparents to download malware. Now they need to trick developers to release malware or scam apps which is a little more difficult.
- defraudbah 1y agohow did you make your comment in gray?
- sunaookami 1y agoThere are thousand scam apps on the iOS App Store and Google Play Store, this will change nothing. It will only punish those that seek privacy.
- user_7832 1y agoRelated thread from a month ago: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own, link: https://hugotunius.se/2025/08/31/what-every-argument-about-sideloading-gets-wrong.html https://hugotunius.se/2025/08/31/what-every-argument-about-s... (Discussion link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45087396 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45087396)
- stebalien 1y agoI still haven't seen anyone discuss the issues with distributing applications containing GPLv3 components under these new rules given the clause (from the GPLv3): > “Installation Information” for a User Product means any methods, procedures, authorization keys, or other information required to install and execute modified versions of a covered work in that User Product from a modified version of its Corresponding Source. The information must suffice to ensure that the continued functioning of the modified object code is in no case prevented or interfered with solely because modification has been made. At the moment, the workaround here is that keys can technically just be generated on the fly (with some caveats). With Google's new requirements, that's not possible.
- jenadine 1y agoIn my interpretation, this clause is for when someone ships a user product that contains GPLv3 software. That means it would apply to the phone vendor if the phone contained GPLv3 (or anything using LGPLv3) software. But if you're just a developer who ship software GPLv3 software for Android, you are good because any developer that want to modify your software on their phone can, as long as they register to Google to get these keys. It should therefore be respecting the licenses. But that's just my interpretation.
- danielheath 1y ago> any developer that want to modify your software on their phone can, as long as they register to Google to get these keys Pretty sure the GPLv3 requires you not have any such barrier.
- jenadine 1y agoI couldn't find such requirements when reading the GPL. The paragraph cited by GP is from the explicitly about "convey an object code work under this section in, or with, or specifically for use in, a User Product, and the conveying occurs as part of a transaction in which the right of possession and use of the User Product is transferred to the recipient in perpetuity or for a fixed term". So in other words, only if you sell hardware with binaries under GPL. Also, from reading other comments, it seems it would still be possible to use the adb console to load apps without having signatures? So that should cover it as far as the GPL is concerned.
- devsda 1y agoI'm glad fdroid is voicing its concerns and asking people to act. This is not just another technical challenge. If your country is ever in the crosshairs of "American interests" and bears the brunt of its sanctions, it is possible that you cannot install apps from your fellow citizens i.e. your own local government, bank and store apps. Countries that are likely to face sanctions are also likely to be predominantly Android users, so it affects them disproportionately. Good luck teaching your fellow citizens to root phones their phones(which is getting hard and outright impossible on certain phones) if that happens. This is a real challenge that countries need to think and plan for.
- zx8080 1y agoLineageos has probably the most compatibility among the android-compatible opensource and open (not vendor-locked) phone OSes. However the list of compatible phones is too small. There's almost devices one can go and buy (except Pixels, but I would not use Google's Pixels just to avoid feeding the wolves).
- OldMatey 1y agoWhat a disaster this will be. The end of any really open phones. By the time I cannot sideload apps or torrent onto my device, I might as well move to an iPhone and at least get less data tracking and better security.
- add-sub-mul-div 1y agoI'll never reward Apple with another dime. They started and normalized this. Plus whatever rights Apple takes away next, Android will likely continue to lag behind in implementing for years.
- AnonymousPlanet 1y agoI don't believe for one second that Google is doing this because Apple does so too. They would have done so long ago. I would rather bet this has to do with recent political shifts that are also pushing for mandatory digital IDs and spying on encrypted messages (see UK and EU). This and Windows 11 depending on certain hardware are all pointing in one direction: a war on general computing.
- FpUser 1y ago>"a war on general computing" This. It gives too much freedom to people.
- beeflet 1y agoIt is strange that this is happening all at once. Pretty much no major advances in the war on general purpose computing for the past decade, but in 2025 there are a number of major attempts to lock everything down.
- BrenBarn 1y agoLet's think about what happened in 2025. Say, January 2025. Say, 20 January 2025.
- Animats 1y agoI trust F-Droid more than the Google Play Store. I have F-Droid installed, but not the Google Play Store.
- benrutter 1y agoI agree with the first point! On the second- how do you access apps tied to services like banking, utilities, transport, etc? This is one of the main things keeping me tied to the Google ecosystem, a lot of services require me to have an app that's only available on the play store.
- metalman 1y agobank through a web browser, works for me, every new phone gets de guggled right out of the box, turning off the notifications requires loadeing alternate phone apps, which for some reason de-grayout's the notifiction/harsments from guggle on everything else currently gathering all of the alternate OS phone info I can find, and will start a thread when things get hotter
- Animats 1y agoWeb sites. Uber works from its web site. I mostly do things from desktops, not phones. I don't have any financial stuff on my phone. More secure.
- tmtvl 1y agoI'm seconding this. I can use my digital bus tickets from the bus company's website so I can activate them on my Ubuntu Touch phone. Any banking stuff I do on my desktop.
- DarkFuture 1y agoI install MicroG (on my LineageOS on Pixel) which allows me to install my UK banking apps and Google Maps, etc. MicroG just reimplemented the Google APIs: > microG GmsCore is a free software reimplementation of Google's Play Services. It allows applications calling proprietary Google APIs to run on AOSP-based ROMs like LineageOS, acting as a free replacement for the non-free, proprietary Google Play Services (sometimes referred to as the more generic term "GApps"). It is a powerful tool to reclaim your privacy and freedom while enjoying Android core features (although apps you use that take advantage of it may still be using proprietary libraries to communicate with microG, just as they do when communicating with the actual Google Play Services). Source: https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/wiki https://github.com/microg/GmsCore/wiki I add the official MicroG repo to my F-Droid using this QR code: https://microg.org/fdroid/repo/ https://microg.org/fdroid/repo/ Also, I download apps (like my UK banks) from official Play store using Aurora Store, which connects to Google servers directly to download the APKs, keep them updated, etc. No need to use those dodgy APK websites. Aurora Store is itself also available on F-Droid too. I guess in time Google will target these apps :(
- scorpioxy 1y agoSo for Australia, what can someone do? I don't believe that regulation these days can stand against corporate interests. I have seen this happen many times already. So what can I as a consumer do? The two practical options seem to be either Apple or Google.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y agoI heard there are Linux based phones but I haven't tried any
- anonzzzies 1y agoExpensive (well, except pine) and behind but i buy them anyway, as I cannot stand this corporate crap.
- haakon 1y agoWhat is the most tolerable of these phones, in your experience?
- anonzzzies 1y agoThe Purism ones. They work mostly fine - outdated hardware sure, but it is all fast enough and works and is very usable as workstation of course depending on what you do. I do some rust, go, node dev and it works very well when plugged into a larger screen.
- komali2 1y agoI've messed around with funky phones, and after having an emergency call fail on two different ones, I've decided not to mess about with them anymore (GrapheneOS on some random pixel and a funky e-ink phone). Maybe it works great on whatever linux phone you mean but my path forward has looked more like just always using secondhand androids until I can install fdroid anymore, and then just using a linux phone tethered to a dumbphone that can hotspot. Finding out you can't call emergency services when you really super duper need to is something I never want to risk happening to me again.
- uneekname 1y agoThe time to fight is now!! We are careening toward a bleak future of mobile computing.
- komali2 1y agoUnfortunately the fight seems to be enormous. It's not just this little slice of computing freedom, it's all the random bullshit that various world governments get up to that I keep seeing in EFF newsletters: big tech enforcing government censorship or ratting you out to your government that's having a play at fascism, or making you verify your identity to access services, or trying to get access to your encrypted communications, but on top of that it's also: weaponizing copyright law to get you in trouble for repairing things you bought, choking out small businesses that might compete with regulatory capture or copyright shenanigans, shadowbanning your content if it doesn't look nice next to coca-cola ads (everyone putting little stars on sui*ide or whatever other nonsense), adding fees on all your payments or completely un-humaning you if you don't pay to play (credit card companies; UK allowing "CC only" shops). Not to be the strings on the pegboard guy, but, it's all looking to be connected, and it's all looking to be the natural outcome of organizing our societal value systems around profit motive and letting gigantic inhuman profit-seeking algorithms (corporations) run rampant and allowing capital to be transferable to political power. Walkaway by Cory Doctorow seems the most feasible path forward for people that are tired of this sort of society. Modern society seems too prepared to be able to overcome with widespread revolution, and in any case such an overthrow seems too vulnerable to co-opting by bad, authoritarian actors.
- gmueckl 1y agoIt is connected, but not in the "man behind the mirror" sense. It just happens to be the result of important governments across the world shifting politically right simultaneously and pushing/tolerating agendas that value government-enforced security over personal freedom.
- wartywhoa23 1y agoA duck just happens to be the result of the way it looks, walks, swims and quacks. What use is this decomposition in case of the undeniable enfascistification of the world, other than giving a set of bullet point excuses for the devil's advocates?
- tommica 1y agoThis whole situation sucks. I enjoy F-Droid exactly. Because I can use stores like F-Droid or just download a package from github and be able to run it on my phone. That going away for corporation and governmental greed is just... Sigh.
- shirro 1y agoWhile Google are capable of being evil all on their own I wonder if the regulatory environment companies are facing around the world is contributing. It is going to lead to increasingly restricted systems with less choice for consumers. I recently tried to install Thunderbird email on my 17 year old's phone so he could access our self-hosted email for education, jobs, government things that young adults require. After jumping through hoops with age verification it turned out not to be allowed for his age for some unfathomable reason. Increasingly content providers, app stores, os providers etc are coming under chilling industry codes here requiring age verification and age restriction. So I used f-droid so my young adult could start making applications. What I see as freedom might look a lot like circumvention to regulators. As all the big commercial services step into line with government codes and turn restrictions to their commercial advantage I am not sure where that leaves those of us who use FOSS software. My apps come from Flathub, arch, debian, f-droid not Apple, Google, or Microsoft stores. My devices come OS free when possible. The volunteers involved haven't participated in the development of industry codes and aren't in a position do all the compliance stuff that governments increasingly demand from tech companies. How much longer will free and open source be tolerated?
- WhyNotHugo 1y agoMy impression is that the order of causality is the opposite. Google and similar companies are lobbying heavily for these industry codes so that app developers have no choice but to introduce the restrictions which only allow you to operate via them.
- shirro 1y agoI think it is probably a bit of both. There are some compelling reasons to regulate tech companies for the benefit of society and I often have no issue with the intention. The problem is governments invite the industry to design the regulations and it quickly turns into regulatory capture. If vendors were to start locking out competition or further invade privacy it would upset government regulators but now they can point at another regulatory authority and claim they are forced to do these things to protect the kiddies.
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- yonato 1y agoMy Pixel 6 just broke, and after 15 years of using Android (I still miss that Nexus One trackball!), I’ve finally been convinced to move to iOS. If I have no options left and must live in a walled garden, I suppose I’ll choose the one with nicer flowers.
- anilgulecha 1y agoF-droid has been stellar in steering the alternative app store environment over the past 15 years or so, and I'd heed their call on this. A small call to any googler on the thread - put your support towards this internally. I understand the internal dynamics, and it may seem current option is best amongst imperfect choices, but in this case F-droid is right in that closing out anonymous (but good) software is a line crossed with peril for any open ecosystem. Today it's play store, tomorrow it will be the web, and that will have a significant negative impact on Google.
- cft 1y ago"Best among the imperfect choices"? What's wrong about the current situation? Why imperfect? I have had Android phones starting from G1, and never had any problems with them, that I could install any APK that I wished on my own hardware. There's nothing imperfect for me, as a user. What's "imperfect" is that there are apps like ReVanced and PipePipe that deprive Google of the advertising revenue. But that's imperfect for Google, and perfect for the user. Just charge me 30 bucks for Android OS instead.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- kragen 1y agoSpreadsheets are a fundamentally important tool—the original "killer app" for personal computers such as cellphones, and the best way that has been found so far to put computational power in the hands of end-users. Last I checked, there was no spreadsheet in F-Droid, largely because it's a relatively small ecosystem, and most Android users still aren't using F-Droid. Instead they are subjected to the outrageously abusive apps that fill the Play Store, as described for example in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45411897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45411897. And many Android phones ship with non-uninstallable malware and shovelware. Backing up an Android phone without a Google account—indeed, even activating an Android phone without a Goolge account—is challenging. From my point of view, these are imperfections.
- charcircuit 1y agoFdroid owning the signing keys for the apps of other developers was always a security mistake. This announcement should make them realize this instead of doubling down on it.
- beeflet 1y agoNo it isn't. I trust fdroid more than random app developers.
- someNameIG 1y agoWhy? Isn't that how most linux distros do their repos?
- charcircuit 1y agoIt is, but Linux distros are not the pinnacle of security. They use a security model decades out of date, so they are not something you should try and copy off of.
- someNameIG 1y agoBut has there been many actual reported security issues due to it? Like has anyone downloaded malware fro the official Ubuntu or Fedora repos?
- charcircuit 1y agoCVE-2008-0166 a maintainer added a security bug to openssl and it was distributed to many machines resulting in many weak ssh keys being generated. Between openssl releasing their library and it making its way to end user's machines a security vulnerability was injected.
- AAAAaccountAAAA 1y agoThat was literally before the first production Android phone become available. Does not seem to be a particularly common occurance. Though due to the current world situation, supply chain attacks might admittedly become more common.
- usr1106 1y agoThe article has corrupted paragraphs towards the end? Only for me? Read it with niche browser, did not verify with any mainstream browser.
- BrenBarn 1y agoIt has corrupted formatting throughout for me.
- card_zero 1y agoIt looks like 8 out of 17 footnotes didn't become footnotes properly. Every second footnote is displayed in the middle of the text, with a name tag like [^regappid] instead of getting a number.
- WhyNotHugo 1y agoLooks like the markdown source had some misformated footnotes which were not properly processed. Whoever uploaded/published this didn’t see to review it first.
- skowalak 1y agoSame for me, the source for the article can be found here: https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroid-website/-/blob/master/_posts/2025-09-29-google-developer-registration-decree.md https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroid-website/-/blob/master/_post...
- usr1106 1y agoSo we could send them a MR to fix the footnotes (cause mentioned in sibling response). If it has not been fixed already. Not me anymore, well past midnight an a long trip in front of me tomorrow.
- Thorrez 1y agoYes. It's sad because this is an otherwise well-written and important article that needs to be widely distributed and taken seriously. But people will be put off by the formatting errors.
- stevefan1999 1y agoWell, that's because of trusted computing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing And again, to quote Benjamin Franklin, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety". Sadly nobody cares nowadays.
- marc_abonce 1y ago> F-Droid is different. It distributes apps that have been validated to work for the user’s interests, rather than for the interests of the app’s distributors. F-Droid's curation saved me at least once when I wanted to upgrade my Simple™ apps and couldn't find them in F-Droid anymore, which led me to learn that SimpleMobileTools was sold to a company that closed sourced the apps[1] and that there's a free fork called Fossify[2]. Had I installed these through Google Play, they wouldn't have cared about this particular change and I would've gotten whatever random upgrades the new owners pushed. Each app store's policies have their pros and cons, but that's why it's so important to have a diversity of marketplaces. [1] https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issues/241 https://github.com/SimpleMobileTools/General-Discussion/issu... [2] https://github.com/FossifyOrg https://github.com/FossifyOrg
- getpokedagain 1y agoThis sort of application acquisition game happens on ios as well and is part of the reason I am experimenting with a graphene OS phone sans any Google. I guess daddy Google is trying to come fuck me too.
- Sarky 1y agoI used Simple apps in the past but lost track of them. Now i know why. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Indeed we need diversity of the ecosystems.
- amelius 1y agoYes, and it is crazy that Apple/Google want us to think that AppStore, OS and ContentFilter are not mutually orthogonal concepts.
- jackstraw42 1y ago> F-Droid's curation saved me at least once when I wanted to upgrade my Simple™ apps and couldn't find them in F-Droid anymore, which led me to learn that SimpleMobileTools was sold to a company that closed sourced the apps[1] and that there's a free fork called Fossify[2]. > Had I installed these through Google Play, they wouldn't have cared about this particular change and I would've gotten whatever random upgrades the new owners pushed. sheesh. I've spent my whole mobile device life on iOS and am just now learning an Android device. While I feel I have more control over the finer details of my personal privacy and security, this ecosystem is a total minefield if you care about avoiding spyware and malware. I'm glad I trusted my instincts and only installed F-Droid first before any apps from the Play Store. Just now found the Isolation app so I can create a Work Profile and separate personal life from the life that the relentless data vacuums are constantly trying to pull from the simplest apps these days. Neither mobile OS is perfect, but I feel like I was correct about Apple having the user's personal privacy still much more of a priority than Google. There was never any question if those were the two options, IMO. But it does seems like now, finally, Android might be ready to deploy as a mobile operating system for the public. I'm fairly certain that this Android ecosystem that's used its users for so long as guinea pigs (not just Android, but the full unrefined and frankly unsophisticated media sphere as a whole that's been figuring out how to effectively work on us) has harmed the last generation or two beyond repair. This became all too clear when the first thing I did on my first Android device a few weeks ago was install an offline keyboard from devs with my privacy interests in mind. Spent a few minutes thinking about what it would have been like living with this shitty keyboard system on iOS and realized that honestly, I am lucky that I stuck with iOS through all of this and feel like my mental health is much better than it would have been had I been fighting a malware-riddled Android device this whole time. edit: I'm not saying you shouldn't use Android or that it's a bad idea, I do think that it is solid enough now (and maybe has been for a while, I don't know) that I can safely protect myself after learning. But ask yourself if all Android users would take the time to properly learn? What about kids?
- BatteryMountain 1y agoI've built a couple of tools for myself over the years, some of which includes android apps. They were never released to the public. If we go down this path, I will stop all development on android (and at work too, as it is up to me how we deliver, coincidentally). I implore all other developers to resist this. This will completely lock down the platform forever, there will be no going back.The entire reason why android is so attractive is because we have linux in our palms and all the amazing benefits of that. If google wanted to do the right thing, they would go in the opposite direction and make it easier to gain root access on mainstream devices instead of locking it down further. It seems the only last bastion left is Firefox, so I will be focusing on making all my tools work well on Firefox (mobile & desktop) instead of app ecosystems.
- kykat 1y agoDeveloping for Android and iOS is already a huge pain, browser based experiences can be even better than native apps in some cases. I will also not invest any more time in developing/following these closed platforms, and try to push web based solutions as much as reasonably possible.
- BatteryMountain 1y agoSeriously, HUGE pain in the psu. Javascript is a pain on web but mobile development significantly more painful, even though we have nicer languages & compilers - all the ceremony around it is just too much. I freaking hate gradle with a passion, as every other week I have to reconfigure my ide, again. As it cannot seem to just chill out and do its work, it demands blood every week or two.
- wiseowise 1y ago> I freaking hate gradle with a passion, as every other week I have to reconfigure my ide, again. Is there a Googler here that can enlighten me what makes Android so unique as to break IDE between every release?
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- specproc 1y agoWe need to start treating phones differently. We're entering a world where we can't choose what we run on them. Their primary purpose is to gather data on us and serve us advertising, they're engineered for addiction, yet engaging in the world is immensely difficult without one. Phones are as much a burden as benefit in 2025, and our behaviour towards them should reflect that. Mine is currently off and in the drawer of my desk. I'll turn it on again when I need 2FA, some service provider's app, or when I'm likely to be out of the house for an extended period. I'll turn it off again when I don't need it.
- cjs_ac 1y agoI think this is the right take. Other commenters are mourning the death of general-purpose computing, but general-purpose computing is very much alive and kicking in laptops, desktops, and servers. It's just smartphones and tablets that are being turned into limited-use appliances. The overwhelming majority of users just want a smartphone or tablet that's a limited-use appliance, and those of us on HN who want general-purpose computers are a tiny minority, and our insistence that we be allowed to make our own decisions is drowned out by those who need their hands held in this dangerous world. My smartphone is used for interacting with systems that I expect to surveil me anyway - my bank, my navigation app, and so on. Serious work is done using serious machines.
- foxrider 1y agoPeople mourn general-purpose computing, because the writing is on the wall for future generations. The living room computer is dead, your average "normie" only has a phone, and maybe a tablet these days. What really opened my eyes to this is how kids I was teaching 3D printing design to were constantly asking if they can use a 3D printer with their phone. Laptops, desktops and servers are becoming more and more niche, and if we don't do anything it dies with our generation (or maybe a generation after that).
- cjs_ac 1y agoI used to be a physics teacher, and very few of my students gave a shit about science. The most popular 'science' content on social media is elephant's toothpaste videos and inspirational quotes photoshopped onto astrophotography. Most people struggle to have a conversation about ideas, they just want to talk about people, and that's perfectly fine. General-purpose computing was always for nerds, and always will be. There will only ever be a tiny proportion of people who find this stuff interesting enough to actually learn how to engage with it on its own level. Everyone else needs it to be packaged in an idiot-proof way so they can use it to get on with their day.
- hks0 1y agoReminds me of Nokia/Symbian. To install a `.sis(x)` with any useful capabilities (permissions in Android) one needed to sign it with Nokia's keys; which they normally couldn't, at least with non-business email addresses. Until someone found a way to hack the roms and it became a Tom&Jerry struggle between hackers & Nokia who wanted to suffocate them by patching those loopholes. Then came Android. The freedom to sideload any `.apk` on any device was magical. And now we've come full circle. Except that Symbian wasn't source-available, so there was a bigger hope for a successful rebelion.
- therein 1y ago> so there was a bigger hope for a successful rebelion. Not if you want to run banking apps on that device.
- stavros 1y agoI'm willing to lose the banking apps and just use the website if it means I can have an open device.
- therein 1y agoSame but banks are cramming in more and more app-only features. That's why a dedicated device for them is going to be my workaround. I could see myself having GrapheneOS on my primary device and having that act as a hotspot for my small "certified" device that I do my banking on.
- codedokode 1y agoWhy do you need a banking app, do you want to share your contact list and geolocation with the bank so badly? Do you need a bank app's antivirus to scan your phone and flag you as a suspicious user? Are you missing notifications offering a credit card with 45% yearly rate? Do you want to make investments while riding on a train while several suspiciously looking beggars carefully look at the numbers? Do you want to allow anyone who has a Linux kernel exploit to access your bank account? I don't understand. It's unsafe and inconvenient.
- flanked-evergl 1y ago[flagged]
- baobun 1y agoAIUI, the law puts restrictions on "traders", ie businesses, people making a revenue, integrating ads etc. A free FLOSS app would be exempt from these requirements under the DSA. Apple and Google don't make a difference betwren commercial and non-commercial publishers, so in this sense they both do malicious compliance.
- flanked-evergl 1y ago[flagged]
- ernst_klim 1y agoIn theory. In practice Germany requires your private non-commercial web page to have Impressum and there is an army of legal trolls who would destroy you for not having one. I guess the same will happen with signed apps.
- heinrich5991 1y agoNo, your private non-commercial web page doesn't need an Impressum AFAIK. Once you add ads to generate (small) income, it becomes commercial, though.
- iggldiggl 1y agoI think the grey area is a bit bigger than that. The Digitale-Dienste-Gesetz (https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ddg/__5.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/ddg/__5.html) in § 5 imposes this requirement on "geschäftsmäßige, in der Regel gegen Entgelt angebotene digitale Dienste", i.e. "services operated in a business-like manner, usually against payment". The key word here is "geschäftsmäßig" (literally translated "in the manner of a business", "business-like"), which within German law is held to be a weaker requirement than "gewerbsmäßig", that is "commercial". "Geschäftsmäßig" can be anything you keep on doing regularly, independently of any profit motives – you can find a few discussions of that online, and amongst other things, the same term was also used in now-overturned legislation against commercial assisted-suicide, where it caused the same interpretation problems whether doctors or non-profit associations nonetheless might be construed to be acting "geschäftsmäßig" even if they didn't take any payments. The "usually against payment" bit means that anything done for money can unambiguously by default be presumed to be business-like (and even worse, one possible additional interpretation is that anything other people usually do for money can be argued to be "geschäftsmäßig", too, even if you yourself offer it for free), but the reverse isn't necessarily true. Keeping with the F-Droid sphere for example, something like https://android.izzysoft.de/ https://android.izzysoft.de/ I think could (even if you subtracted the few affiliate ads) very well be argued to be operated in a business-like manner, since it's relatively big and professionally-done enough. The other relevant law is the Medienstaatsvertrag (https://www.die-medienanstalten.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Rechtsgrundlagen/Gesetze_Staatsvertraege/Medienstaatsvertrag_MStV.pdf#page=25 https://www.die-medienanstalten.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Rec...), where an exception from the imprint requirements in § 18 is made only if operated for "persönlichen oder familiären Zwecken", i.e. for "personal or family purposes". (And journalistic offerings, which can potentially cover some blogs or forums for example, are even subject to extended imprint requirements.) The "family" bit is relatively clear, but "personal" purposes are once again more interpretable. A wide reading of "personal" would indeed cover all sorts of non-commercial hobby pages, though in that case you could ask yourself the question why a separate exception for family purposes would then still be required, too? A narrower reading of "personal" on the other hand would only cover stuff that's literally only intended for you, like login pages to your personal webmail or Nextcloud instances, your private picture or file hosting and similar things. Some lawyers even go as far as including a private diary (that for some reason however you decide to publish online and even without password protection) within the category of "personal" things (though depending how much your diary refers to identifiable outside entities, it could also be construed to be a journalistic offering and therefore definitely subject to imprint requirements), but that's about the limit. Hobby pages intended for the non-specific general public (outside of just family and friends) are therefore very much in a grey area as to when exactly the imprint requirements are starting to become applicable even if you don't do any ads at all.
- umrashrf 1y agoYes and our company is planning to stop distributing to google App Store in near future.
- ddxv 1y agoGoogle should lose control of the app store and it should be managed by a group rather than any single company.
- geokon 1y agoI still don't understand a lot of the specifics of the signing. So they're going to force through this change with a Google Play Services update? This will affect even old devices - like ones running some kiosk app? How does this work with Chinese ROMs - that don't come with Google Play Services? How do it affect secondary app stores? A developer releases their app on Vivo's app store - and he has to register with Google's ID procedure? If you're running some old Android version and you block Google Play Services from updating, will the Play Services stop working entirely and brick the kiosk phone/tablet? If this was a change required in the next version of Android, then I could kind of understand. You buy a new phone and this is the Faustian bargain you choose to accept. Google's search ad cash cow is dieing. Time to milk all their assets. Google obviously doesn't want people making money off of their Android work - to me this was inevitable. But the fact they're forcing this down the throats of existing users.. this seems messed up and maybe illegal?
- WhyNotHugo 1y agoThis likely won’t affect Chinese or open source Android distribution. It will affect Android as distributed by Google’s partners. People using LineageOS, Calyx or alike will be unaffected. The other 90% of western android users will be affected.
- geokon 1y agoLineageOS and company aren't Certified Android Devices. However, I think for instance a Vivo OriginOS device is. They will have a separate Play Service for Chinese-bound devices? Where are you getting your information btw?
- g-b-r 1y agoIt's been added to the last Android 16 build (https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/09/android-16-qpr2-beta-2-is-here.html https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2025/09/android-16...). No idea if they'll also decide to enforce it with the Play Services at some point.
- 1y ago
- ravshan 1y agoThen what is the point of having an android phone? I might buy an iphone.
- janvlug 1y agoBetter totally leave Android. It will be a long tough uphill battle, but digital freedom is possible. Purism is for example providing the Librem 5 phone with PureOS. Closing the app gap is big challenge, but I use the Librem 5 as my daily phone. Yes, I may have some inconvenience, but I have freedom, and the software is getting better and better. For more info see also: * https://puri.sm/posts/googles-new-sideloading-restrictions-why-purism-thinks-differently/ https://puri.sm/posts/googles-new-sideloading-restrictions-w... * https://puri.sm/posts/closing-the-app-gap-momentum-and-time/ https://puri.sm/posts/closing-the-app-gap-momentum-and-time/
- wraptile 1y ago> Better totally leave Android. to where? Everything else is either worse or non even remotely close to matching Android's features and accessibility.
- xandrius 1y agoYou got to take a small toll on comfort if you want anything not backed by a huge evil corporation to have a chance. Before it was Linux and now it's Ubuntu Touch, sure it's not perfect but it's a very much usable system which needs more people to try it out as their daily driver. I made the shift a month or so ago because I don't want to have to choose between two evils.
- stavros 1y agoHow can I use an OS that's not iOS on Android as a daily driver? 99% of what I do on my phone is chat to my friends and pay for things, which I won't be able to do at all with the free OSes. I might as well go without a phone at that point.
- a96 1y agoI guess the offered way for problematic apps is Waydroid? I'd be interested to hear how that works in practice.
- karlkloss 1y ago"You may also need to upload official government ID." That would be illegal in Germany, and probably also in other EU countries. Only the gouvernment and banks are allowed to make copies of IDs. Alle others aren't. Can get you in serious legal trouble. Not that a data hog like Google would care.
- gmueckl 1y agoThis is no longer true. Copies of IDs are legal in Germany as long as certain conditions are met, which aren't particularly onerous.
- goku12 1y agoForget the legality altogether. The fact that they need real world validation of any form should be alarming in itself. Never forget how hard it is to resolve any issue - even falsely flagged ones - resolved with Google's support. Do you really need such a gatekeeper?
- wartywhoa23 1y agoExactly. When the laws become antihuman and lawmakers absolutely corrupt, it is obeying those laws that is the true crime.
- buyucu 1y agoLike Google cares. There will be a 5-10 year long court case, and Google will be forced to pay a few billion. That will be it.
- codedokode 1y agoMaybe the person who made a copy and sent it, will have to pay the fine?
- Rogach 1y agoI see a lot of comments here talking about "end of free computing" and similar stuff. However, I'm trying to find ways to be somewhat optimistic. There are already companies that attempt to make smartphones that actually try to preserve our freedoms (Fairphone and PinePhone come to mind, I'm sure there are more). So even if mass-market smartphones become locked-down completely, we will still have alternatives. Sure, in some ways these alternatives might be less convenient, and they might be expensive - but if you can put a price tag on your freedom then you might not need it too much in the end.
- geff82 1y ago... Shift Phones! They even have an installer so you can install a phone OS of your liking (e/OS, Lineage, Ubuntu, etc...).
- Rogach 1y agoThanks for the info! They do look nice and the prices are very affordable. I'm a bit worried by their lack of focus, though - looks like they are spreading themselves a bit thin, they are trying to build a lot of different gadgets all at once (keyboards, speakers, laptops, headphones, etc). Building a phone is hard enough, trying to build all other things might dilute the valuable development resources.
- Aachen 1y agoI was looking at Shiftphone but haven't been able to identify a single advantage over Fairphone. More vendors isn't bad, but it's so niche, I think more people actively use F-Droid (and that's already niche) than know the name Shiftphone! They'd stand stronger and be a more realistic option if they collaborated on some level I'm curious if you know of any reason to buy Shift besides specifically supporting German economy instead of the Dutch one And would you know why they don't work together? At least on the software side that's easy to do remotely. I know Fairphone has been struggling to catch up with the machine learning and other services other vendors are adding on top of e.g. the camera sensor to get good photos. They seem to be doing better now but Shift seems to still have a lot of software bugs, eyeing their forums
- xyzal 1y agoIt irks me to no end that for proper GrapheneOS support one has to buy a Pixel.
- focusedone 1y agoI wonder if Google actually makes a profit on Pixels, or if the idea is to sell at / below cost and make up for it through advertising the sale of user tracking data from the device. If it's the latter, buying a pixel to run Graphene might be a particularly solid counter.
- kristjank 1y agoI demand some degree of freedom as an end-user. If all of the possible alternatives strip that basic freedom from me, I will simply fall back to the option which has the most features, which means moving to Apple. (Also, losing to competition seems to be the only way companies nowadays can perceive loss of users' trust)
- goku12 1y agoWait. Is the same freedom available on iOS at all? Don't you need a developer license there as well? Forget the fact that side loading and alternate stores are not possible at all.
- hkt 1y agoI live for the day when regulators sat Android (and iOS) should not ship with a default store, and should allow users the choice. Break the platform monopoly. In the meantime, I guess it is time to return to degoogled Android, for me at least. Another good example of Google's worst instincts, though: backups. The backup API can only be implemented by things which are included at build time, so apart from e/OS/ I've never seen an option except Drive. (e/OS/ supports nextcloud as a target)
- buyucu 1y agoF-Droid is the best. I have around 20 apps from them on my phone, more then half of them can not be found on the Google Play Store.
- Evidlo 1y agoAre there any Google people that have commented anonymously about what is going on internally?
- heavyset_go 1y agoThere are reports of intense cackling coming from within their Scrooge McDuck-ian money vault.
- netfortius 1y agoDon't Do Evil!
- greatgib 1y agoIsn't it an editor, an app store or the FSF that would start an antitrust litigation against Google? I would easily do a donation to a fund to do that. In my opinion, Google is doing that to keep control as there is now the European regulation that said that they can't force manufacturer to install exclusively what Google asks them to "to be certified". So, in theory there could have been big brand smartphones with only the vendor or alternative app store by default anytime soon without this change.
- gmueckl 1y agoThis confuses me. Google uses their closed source apps as leverage in the certification process. If they are no longer able to enforce bundling, then what?
- goku12 1y agoThinking that you can litigate every matter of user freedom against two ultra-wealthy co-monopolies of mobile OSes is frankly short sighted, if not misguided. They throw around lots of money to lawyers, lobbyists and politicians on every case. They may not win every case. But they don't need to. Each case they win is a step forward for their ambitions of total device control and indefinite money grab. On the other hand, we need to win every case with meager resources to keep our freedoms. At best, this will slightly delay our inevitable surrender to corporate greed. We really need to get off these abusive rent-seeking spyware platforms and go for something similar to how Linux distros or various BSDs work. The main hurdles are the hardware, drivers and essential applications like banking and transportation. The hardware is an even bigger problem than the OS platform itself. But this is getting desperate. We really have to start moving in that direction before we're left with nothing else.
- renegat0x0 1y ago- there is no escape from digital techno feudalism - you will have to obey corporations - sooner or later everything will work using digital ID, or some other IDs - sooner or later phones, PCs, browsers, will be locked in - majority of populations will have no problems about that, aka golden cage - I do not such a future exists when it will not look like this - I am uncertain what is the future of open source. I think it also will be regulated by accounts, digital IDs. You will not be able to participate in open source without verification
- gmueckl 1y agoOpen source on a large scale is a double edged sword because it is at odds with an economic reasoning that it prevents the realization of monetary value provided by this software as profit. A crackdown on OSS would be devastating, but also not totally surprising to me in the current political landscape.
- wartywhoa23 1y ago> I do not [believe] such a future exists when it will not look like this This is the deepest root of the problem. Decades of psychological conditioning took effect. No future is 100% predefined, my friend. Please do believe.
- janpmz 1y agoAfter developing an app for Android and iOS, it has become clear how wonderful it is to just publish a website in the internet.
- zoobab 1y agoI contacted the European Commission DMA team on this gross abuse of power (Google just followed Apple in this regard, who reacted to the DMA by coming out with this notarization of developers), here is they flacky answer: "Dear citizen, Thank you for contacting us and sharing your concerns regarding the impact of Google’s plans to introduce a developer verification process on Android. We appreciate that you have chosen to contact us, as we welcome feedback from interested parties. As you may be aware, the Digital Markets Act (‘DMA’) obliges gatekeepers like Google to effectively allow the distribution of apps on their operating system through third party app stores or the web. At the same time, the DMA also permits Google to introduce strictly necessary and proportionate measures to ensure that third-party software apps or app stores do not endanger the integrity of the hardware or operating system or to enable end users to effectively protect security. We have taken note of your concerns and, while we cannot comment on ongoing dialogue with gatekeepers, these considerations will form part of our assessment going forward. Kind regards, The DMA Team" The DMA is in fact cementing their duopoly power, the opposite of the objective of the law.
- mid-kid 1y agoThose kind of concessions were likely necessary to get them to pass the law at all.
- nicce 1y agoHave to say that someone played this really well if this was preparation for Chat Control in reality.
- goobatrooba 1y agoI think your take is a bit unbalanced 1. You cannot expect a public body to take a legal conclusion with significant financial impact on the basis of a single citizen report or in reply to that report. This takes analysis, technical and legal work, etc. So your expectation that they respond to your message eith something akin to "of course, you provide evidence of a breach. I, the single case officer responding, confirm the facts are true. Thanks for telling us we will now fine them 5 billion" is a bit unreasonable. 2. I don't see how even inadequate application and a non-committal response leads to the conclusion that this is intended to (or even just allows) to entrench the Android/IOS duopoly.
- azalemeth 1y agoIf you aren't already aware of it, here is Google's official feedback form on this proposal: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfN3UQeNspQsZCO2ITkdzMxv81rJDEGGjO-UIDDY28Rz_GEVA/viewform https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfN3UQeNspQsZCO2ITk...
- _def 1y agoSeems like it's time for more linux on phones and less android
- noisy_boy 1y agoThe days of two phones are here. Use the more "secure" no nonsense low spec device (e.g. the cheapest iPhone) for banking/govt stuff and a main phone (e.g. grapheneOS or lineageOS) for daily driver. Definitely inconvenient but maybe a blessing in disguise considering the malware/phishing risks.
- aniviacat 1y agoDoesn't this issue get solved by reproducible builds? Using reproducible builds allows developers to publish apps on F-Droid using their own signing keys [1]. Those signing keys can then be verified by Google. In 2023 already, 2 out of 3 new apps used this approach [2]. With this in mind, F-Droid should be able to continue functioning after this change by mandating reproducible builds. [1] https://f-droid.org/docs/Reproducible_Builds/ https://f-droid.org/docs/Reproducible_Builds/ [2] https://f-droid.org/2023/09/03/reproducible-builds-signing-keys-and-binary-repos.html https://f-droid.org/2023/09/03/reproducible-builds-signing-k...
- foepys 1y agoGoogle will require you to authenticate with your real name and/or government ID which is something a lot of FLOSS developers don't want to do.
- Aachen 1y agoI expected one person to step up, do the verification, and F-Droid can use that signing key to distribute apps to phones with facism mode enabled. They just need to pick an app ID that isn't already in use, could even be sequential under org.fdroid.* It's quite scary that there's no such idea being floated in the post. Apparently they're ready for F-Droid to be relegated to the realms of Google-free devices that nobody, outside of a few hardcore privacy activists, is currently willing to use. Maybe that'll change, but I doubt significantly enough for governments to reconsider which OSes and third-party stores they need to support
- kotaKat 1y agoAll of this because some asshole wanted to prey on kids' credit cards for an extra couple of cents per V-Buck. Thanks, Timmy Tencent.
- john61 1y agoMaybe a sufficient number off hackers are offended enough now and contribute to really free platforms, like PostmarketOS or Mobian. There has been great work there in the last years. I think we are not very far away from a really usable free phone, we need device drivers and android emulation / f-droid as long as native apps did not catch up.
- harry8 1y agoAnyone else thinking this looks like precursor to banning Signal and similar? 1) Put google in control of what you can install. 2) Get google to block it. Noting that making it harder to install does most of the job as you need you contacts to use signal before you can.
- jhasse 1y agoIf they wanted to block Signal why wouldn't they start with the Play Store version which 99% of users use?
- harry8 1y agoBecause then you get a fight. Signal moves to F-Droid and F-Droid gets a huge mindshare increase and much harder to kill. Signal is today's thing the security state in Europe & the US clearly hate and want to backdoor and destroy. So let's speculate they'd rather be able to make sure that no app, for any purpose that they don't control can survive or succeed?
- focusedone 1y agoMaybe not Signal in the immediate future, but for sure NewPipe, offline MP3 players and many ad blockers.
- airhangerf15 1y agoSignal (Open Whispers) is likely CIA funded. It's like TOR (made by the Navy/DARPA): make something that works so your own operatives can hide behind it too https://www.kitklarenberg.com/p/signal-facing-collapse-after-cia https://www.kitklarenberg.com/p/signal-facing-collapse-after... https://yasha.substack.com/p/signal-is-a-government-op-85e https://yasha.substack.com/p/signal-is-a-government-op-85e https://bigleaguepolitics.com/court-docs-show-fbi-can-intercept-encrypted-messages-from-deep-state-backed-signal-app/ https://bigleaguepolitics.com/court-docs-show-fbi-can-interc...
- tigrezno 1y agoSyncthing-fork is only distributed by f-droid and direct download from github. F-droid is essential for many apps.
- magic_hamster 1y agoF-Droid is great. It's a stark and sad outlook that the only path forward suggested by F-droid is to contact your representative. Effectively, this means there's nothing we can do. Expecting our representatives to go to war with Google on this somehow doesn't seem too plausible. I think it's more likely there will always be a way to sideload apps, or if not, maybe the degoogled OS alternatives will find their moment to shine.
- tonyhart7 1y agocan EU save all of us???? I think US gov wouldn't a care about this, do we really cant do anything about this??
- 9847598576 1y agoI wouldn't put my hope in a totalitarian regime.
- Imustaskforhelp 1y agoI want to take something from this article which deeply fascinated me. The Right to Run If you own a computer, you should have the right to run whatever programs you want on it. I always thought that this was something natural yet Google is doing the developer registration and spotify is dmca'ing/suing? revanced team just for skipping some lines of code. it is my computer and if I want to run a open source software from f-droid, I should be able to without one of the largest companies in the world meddling in the way. If I want to run spotify in revanced, the developers shouldn't be sued for just skipping some lines of code. Theoretically it breaches on my rights to run software. Its my computer,my phone, my devices and I want to run whatever I want with it. I paid for it completely and I want to use it completely. Yet more and more, its becoming as if your device is becoming something similar to license, like they are making us think that we haven't bought a phone, we have licensed it and there is a big difference. They might want to slowly extract into even more of our rights to somehow sell a phone as a subscription even after buying it and what not, god. Imagine google packages up a developer service where for 5 bucks we could side load the apps, that WE ONCE COULD DIRECTLY. This isn't far off. But we have made almost our hardware like a service and that saddens me/violates my rights and I want to fight against them. Fuck big corpos. Fuck google. Its my damn computer and none of your damn business saying what I have to do with my own computer. I paid for it completely and I am gonna use it completely.
- IX-103 1y agoYou still have the right to run whatever you want. You just have to use adb to install it, instead of letting it happen automatically. It sucks, but it's not the end of everything...
- Imustaskforhelp 1y agoThat is a very very weird spot that I would be limited to. I can have my phone right now which has f-droid and download apps directly without requiring any other device anywhere as long as I have internet access to download the apk or I have the apk With adb, I would need to have another specific device with me which can get real uncomfortable/ be a real breaker for a lot of times. On top of my mind, I see myself being in the metro downloading games on f-droid to see the state of open source games, I couldn't imagine myself having a laptop in that time, and neither did I have a laptop. I just had a pc back then. Also a huge % of people who are using f-droid right now would just not do things like adb etc. which are a huge breaker I suppose and in the end it is a huge net negative for the community/ecosystem/still goes against the right to run as I had mentioned. But I also didn't know that adb was still enabled, I had actually thought that you genuinely couldn't run any app except google's developer registration AT ALL. but this is also a slippery slope and what prevents them from blocking that too. unless we fight against this, it sets a really really bad precedent for them to follow/essentially dictate my hardware in the future.
- bartekpacia 1y agoThe War on General Computation continues, and we’re losing.
- redleader55 1y agoI see this degradation of the developer and customer experience on mobile as an opportunity for better PWA/web application development. Many things done as an app today could be a PWA, including banking apps. WASM ensures the performance and the browsers have most of the capabilities to do this. I'm sure both Google and Apple will change course when they discover no one does apps anymore.
- aidog 1y agoIt's sad, that android is the only system that can be used to code on the device thanks to termux and now google wants to end this.
- elwebmaster 1y agoCan someone explain the issue with developer registration and how it results the terrible outcomes described in the article. A lot of things have changed for the worse since the beginning of the century but even back in the good old days developers were not anonymous. Every free software I have seen has the name of the developer alongside the copyright. Often it lists multiple contributors as each copyright has to be retained according to the license. I understand sending your ID to Google is more invasive but the anonymity aspect of it is moot. Is Google going to charge developers for this service and hence hinder free software development? Is the issue that younger devs will be unable to complete the verification? And why can’t F-Droid just distribute the binary signed by the developer who has confirmed their identity? Other than that, all concerns expressed in the article are quickly becoming major issues. The web is still open for now but many banks and other institutions have broken websites, forcing you to use their apps or become “unbanked”. Once you download their apps you find out they run only on “certified” OS, forcing you to have Apple or Google owned and controlled software on the hardware you paid for.
- wartywhoa23 1y agoThe issue with this is that taking many small steps towards an edge of a cliff without any reconsideration of the direction results in falling from it.
- serbuvlad 1y agoCan anyone using GrapheneOS report if Firebase notifications come in consistently and reliably via sandboxed Play Services? I'm in the market for a new phone, and I'm going to buy a Pixel 9a this week for GrapheneOS if I can reliably get notifications on it. (I already have an A05 for banking apps)
- Aachen 1y agoI'd be happy to check for you, but will need concrete steps. Signal working reliably is pretty much all I can confirm, since I don't use any others apps on that device that would give me notifications. Signal afaik uses this Google Cloud Messaging thing or whatever their TCP connection marketed as push service is called. Maybe that's now called Firebase? But Signal can also fall back to websockets, which I use on my personal phone and that's working great without any battery loss so I don't know how to tell the difference
- tholdem 1y agoYes, all notifications work fine with sandboxed Play Services installed. All my banking apps also work fine. I haven't really had any problems with app support or any other problems for the many years I've run GrapheneOS as my daily driver.
- codedokode 1y agoI managed to get around with apps only from F-Droid. No ads, no popups, no notifications, work without Internet access, better than Google Play apps in every aspect. The only thing left is to make a ROM without preinstalled garbage apps from the vendor.
- cyberclimb 1y ago> The only thing left is to make a ROM without preinstalled garbage apps from the vendor. Would e-os fit your use case? https://e.foundation/e-os/ https://e.foundation/e-os/
- codedokode 1y agoMaybe.
- airhangerf15 1y agoLineage (without installing Gapps) does this.
- lapcat 1y agoThe "vote with your feet" argument was always specious in a duopoly. If consumer rights depend on the whims of giant corporations like Google and Apple, then consumers never had rights. "Just switch to Android if you don't like iOS lockdown" is now becoming a joke. Consumers desperately need specific legal rights to do what we want with the electronic devices that we've purchased, rights that cannot be overridden by the decisions of any vendor. Apologists have always said, "Apple has a right to do what it wants with its platform." Well guess what, by that principle, so does Google. Don't worry, though, because you have a "choice" between two collaborating duopolists.
- p0w3n3d 1y agowhat about an android fork? just take images of android for given phones and remove the app store requirements? I wonder how will they do it? on kernel level? Of course they can block root access I guess...
- tmarsden 1y agoI'm not an expert here so please take what I say with a grain of salt. It's my understanding that what's included in open source Android (AOSP) is FAR from a complete product and there is quite a bit of Google closed source/proprietary software that goes into the mix before it's shipped as Android (think Google Services.) So, while you could fork AOSP and try to use that as a basis for and alternative mobile OS, it would require quite a bit of work on top of the AOSP code. This is what's done by custom ROMs like GrapheneOS (ironically Pixel devices only) or LineageOS for example.
- jhasse 1y agoSo it wouldn't require a lot of work because LineageOS has already done the work and is open-source.
- pinusc 1y agoAlthough it wouldn't require a lot of work to allow side-loading apps on LineageOS and similar, LOS users would still be profoundly impacted by the death of the FOSS ecosystem. LOS/AOSP/whatever users are a VANISHINGLY small minority of users, so "an app that only works on them" is an app that only works for a tiny minority of people. This would disincentivize developing FOSS apps altogether. A lot of projects will likely eventually die, and a lot that could have started will not.
- maelito 1y agoMeanwhile, the Web is still there, good enough for most use cases. Last week I discovered the Geolocation API's coordinates.speed param. Tested it with a few bike rides, it just works to display the current speed. How many apps are there on stores to display the device's speed ? How many people in 2025 will search for a Web app (hidden in bullshit articles) instead of downloading apps full of trackers on the Play Store ?
- user3939382 1y agoI have a way to get app distribution totally out of the hands of the app stores AND the browser but with any native OS UI you want ON any OS you want to any user within the TOS. Will share soon.
- Chris2048 1y ago> every app is free and open source, the code can be audited by anyone, the build process and logs are public, and reproducible builds ensure that what is published matches the source code exactly. This transparency and accountability.. That might be transparent, but where is the "accountability"? There's no identification of who is involved, how are they held to account?
- t1234s 1y agoEasy sideloading using ADB is one of the things that keeps me from using an iPhone.
- b0dhimind 1y agoYeah I think ADB based solutions will be the way to bypass Google's Play store app developer registration and app ID registration crap that will kill F-Droid. Even now I grab a bunch of APKs and then have a script that wirelessly updates my devices... F-Droid ADB mode!
- Andrew_nenakhov 1y agoI think we have reached the point when AppStore / Google Play must be spun off from Apple / Google and made to work as a separate companies, and have access to Android / iOS platforms on equal terms with other vendors. We have a great example of such approach on desktop: while some people decry Steam for being a monopoly, it is totally different. Users aren't forced to use it, but choose to use it, and nobody prevents them from installing epic store or whatever. This will stop monopolistic anti-user abuse in their tracks and greatly improve conditions for everybody (except Google and Apple, but after all these years, they kinda deserve it).
- alerighi 1y agoI don't thing Google will enforce this verification as an option that cannot be disabled. Not because they care about open-source, but because there are contexts where Android is used where the device doesn't have an internet connection to contact Google services to verify apps that are installed by whatever deployment method is used. I talk about all the industrial contexts where the devices (terminals that operators use) doesn't connect to the internet but to a local network that is only used to communicate internally with the server the application is using. By the way, if that is truly implemented and not bypassable using some methods such as some developer option, I think that I will return to running a custom ROM (hoping that they would not start restricting also the possibility to unlock the bootloader, fortunately that is up to the manufacturer and you would still find phones with unlockable bootloader, or just get an older phone).
- xmate420x 1y agoIt probably doesn't require a network connection for basic checking, as the signed key can be cryptographically checked even when offline as long as Google preloads their public keys to the phones
- g-b-r 1y ago> It probably doesn't require a network connection for basic checking, as the signed key can be cryptographically checked even when offline as long as Google preloads their public keys to the phones But of course it does nonetheless: https://developer.android.com/reference/android/content/pm/PackageInstaller#DEVELOPER_VERIFICATION_FAILED_REASON_NETWORK_UNAVAILABLE https://developer.android.com/reference/android/content/pm/P...
- heavyset_go 1y agoThis is for "certified" Android devices, I'd imagine the industrial systems Android is flashed to aren't certified.
- lilOnion 1y agoThe thing that bothers me the most is government apps. How can a government require me to use a certain os or browser to use something. What are someways that we can be active about this and have support for these apps everywhere. I'm in Europe . For banking apps, sure ok, I can still go tho the bank but what if that becomes unavailable for me to do. Our countries can't build software based on evil companies like Google.
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago"When contrasted with the commercial app stores - of which the Google Play store is the most prominent - the differences are stark: they are hotbeds of spyware and scams, blatantly promoting apps that prey on their users through attempts to monetize their attention and mine their intimate information through any means necessary, including trickery and dark patterns." Silicon Valley's so-called "tech" companies, e.g., Alphabet's Google LLC, also "prey on users through attempts to monetize their attention and and mine their intimate information through any means necessary, including trickery and dark patterns." There is ample evidence of this behavior from a long litany of litigation where Google unsuccessfully attempted, or did not attempt at all, to rebut the evidence It seems that app developers producing "malware"^1 would be in direct competition with these Silicon Valley companies such as Google 1. What is "malware". It could be defined as software that works against the user's interests. If so defined, the definition could vary from user to user, depending on each user's particular interests. Certainly "malware" can vary in terms of possible criminality and severity. Not all "malware" is criminal in nature, nor does all "malware" pose the same level of threat "Do you want a weather app that doesn't transmit your every movement to a shadowy data broker? Or a scheduling assistant that doesn't siphon your intimate details into an advertisement network?" If using "Google Apps" that come pre-installed into Android, then one can be assured that Google is using them in its round-the-clock efforts to collect such information Google, too, is an "app developer"". For some users, Google's surveillance and data collection may be in competition with other "malware"^2 2. Using the definition of "malware" above, i.e., "software acting against the interests of the user" as F-Droid puts it, we are assuming there are users who interested in avoiding surveillance and data collection "While directly installing - or "sideloading"[^sideloading] - software can be construed as carrying some inherent risk, it is false to claim that centralized app stores are the only safe option for software distribution." When evaluating Google's strategy to allegedly "protect users from malware", one could ask, "Is there another way to do it?" The answer of course is yes "We do not believe that developer registration is motivated by security. We believe it is about consolidating power and tightening control over a formerly open ecosystem." By identifying app developers and forcing them to pay fees (consideration), these developers are entering into legally enforceable contracts with Google. Consider that the app developer, as stated above, may be in competition with Google for user attention and data collection. With few exceptions, the relative bargaining power of the parties, app developer versus Google, is overwhelmingly one-sided Like "YouTube creators", the app developer becomes essentially an unpaid independent contractor. Payment, if any, is not in return for the contractor's work (the software). And any payment comes from advertisers. Google is only an intermediary (middleman) that takes a cut From a user perspective, where the user is interested in avoiding targeted surveillance, data collection and advertising, is the threat of "malware" from non-Google app developers greater than the threat of malware from app developer Google. Avoiding Google's surveillance and data collection is considerably more difficult than avoiding surveillance and data collection by non-Google app developers^3 By using open source apps from F-Droid a user can easily avoid surveillance and data collection by non-Google apps. Using an app from F-Droid such as NetGuard it is trivial to avoid unwanted remote connections, surveillance and data collection initiated by non-Google apps. Arguably app developer Google poses the greatest threat in terms of surveillance and data collection. This is in part because app developer Google also controls the operating system, the DNS settings, endpoints used by apps, major websites that most users visit, in some cases the user's hardware, and so on
- renshijian 1y agoThis isn't just a competition between app stores; it's a struggle for choice and dignity Your phone shouldn't be a cage carefully constructed by others, but an extension of your own will. Allowing apps like F-Droid to exist preserves an enclave of freedom, transparency, and trust in the digital world. It protects not a particular platform, but our fundamental dignity as digital citizens: my device, my choice
- BizarroLand 1y agoHere is a sample email template you can use to send to your congressperson if that is helpful: Dear <Congressperson>, I am writing to you out of deep concern regarding Google’s recent decision to require all Android developers worldwide to register directly with Google by providing personal government identification and other sensitive details as a condition for distributing their applications. While this policy may appear to be framed as a security measure, its consequences would be far-reaching and detrimental to digital freedom, competition, and privacy. For over a decade, the F-Droid project has demonstrated that safe, secure, and privacy-respecting app distribution is possible without central corporate gatekeeping. F-Droid and similar open-source platforms provide verifiable builds, transparent review processes, and applications free of hidden trackers or predatory monetization schemes. By contrast, Google Play has repeatedly hosted malicious apps, showing that centralization is not the same as security. The new registration decree effectively forces independent developers to surrender their personal identities to Google, erecting unnecessary barriers to participation in the software ecosystem. Worse, it would prevent alternative app stores like F-Droid from continuing to operate, depriving millions of users of trusted open-source applications and their ability to freely choose how they use their own devices. This is not only a matter of consumer choice, but of civil liberties. Forcing creators to register their identities with a single corporate gatekeeper in order to distribute software is analogous to requiring authors or artists to register with a private company in order to publish their works. It strikes at the heart of free expression and innovation. I respectfully urge you to take action to prevent this consolidation of control. Whether through competition oversight, digital rights protections, or support for open-source distribution, Congress has a role to play in ensuring that security justifications are not abused to restrict user freedom and entrench monopolistic power. Please help preserve a healthy, competitive ecosystem where developers can create freely and users can choose openly — without unnecessary corporate barriers. Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter, and for your continued service to our district and the nation. Respectfully, -<Your name>
- bb88 1y agoTrust has to exist somewhere, and these days everyone seems to be a target. If you have a bitcoin wallet on your phone, well you're a target, and have been for some time now. You might trust F-Droid today, but the reality is if leverage has been manufactured against them, there's no canary to tell you to uninstall F-Droid.
- ctkhn 1y agoStupid question but does this mess up using alternative OSes? I have a rooted 7" nexus from 2013 that I out lineage on and use for carplay when rentals don't have it installed and have been thinking about upgrading. Will this mess up doing that in the future, and should I just upgrade now? Also open to tablet recs to put carplay on, no familiarity with android tablets aside from the one I own
- FerretFred 1y agoF-Droid apps have enabled me to more-or-less DeGoogle my tablet and populate the device with some truly exceptional software, much of which just isn't available on Google's Play Store. I've also made sure to pay/donate where possible: we can't afford to lose this resource!
- Animats 1y agoDoes someone make an F-Droid only phone?
- 9999gold 1y agoSeems Google is trying to make the price the only benefit on Android. I wonder, excluding the freedom/device control and the price, what makes someone choose Android over iOS?
- Magnusmaster 1y agoIf you live in the EU please complain about Google's developer registration (and other anti-competitive stuff such as Google Play Integrity) here. The EU is asking for people's feedback regarding the Digital Fairness Act. https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/14622-Digital-Fairness-Act_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-sa...
- mahbub6 1y ago[flagged]