15 ms·

Android 16 is here

335 points by nsriv 1y ago

nsriv 1y ago
Factory images here: https://developers.google.com/android/images https://developers.google.com/android/images
- jonah 1y ago
  From that page: Warning: The May 2025 update for Pixel 6 (6, 6 Pro, 6a) and Pixel 8 (8, 8 Pro, 8a) devices contains a bootloader update that increments the anti-roll back version for the bootloader. This prevents the device from rolling back to previous vulnerable versions of the bootloader. After flashing the May 2025 update on these devices you won't be able to flash and boot older Android 15 builds.
- rkagerer 1y ago
  What's with the AI-generated "Key Takeaways" crap on the right column of that page? No thanks, the content is short enough I can easily skim it on my own.
  - autoexec 1y ago
    >What's with the AI-generated "Key Takeaways" crap on the right column of that page? Desperation
mouse_ 1y ago
Are they still moving forward with killing AOSP?
- edude03 1y ago
  Where did you get that idea?
  - XiS 1y ago
    There's quite the panic discussion in GrapheneOS matrix chat
  - ivanmontillam 1y ago
    It's not a crazy idea where he's coming from: - Google will develop Android OS behind closed doors starting next week: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43484927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43484927 - Google will develop the Android OS in private: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43482798 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43482798 It's reasonable to think Google is choking AOSP.
mrweasel 1y ago
The notification feature looks nice. I've pretty much exclusively used iOS, but honestly notifications is a weak point for iOS, in my opinion. I frequently have the 1 notification on my home screen, but once unlocked notifications are pretty much impossible to find again.
- Groxx 1y ago
  I'm certainly happy to see "force grouping". Grouping is a great opt-in enhancement, but it never should've been wholly in apps' control to begin with - apps in general cannot be trusted to not be dumb, gotta have user control to override them.
- argsnd 1y ago
  I agree that Android notifications are broadly better than iOS but the live activities feature was a good idea and I’m quite glad that’s been added to Android now
- robertoandred 1y ago
  Once unlocked, swipe down from the top of the screen to open Notification Center.
  - int_19h 1y ago
    On iOS the annoying thing about this gesture is that it only does that if you swipe down from the center. If you do it from top right corner (which is rather generously defined), you get shortcuts instead.
    - p_j_w 1y ago
      It works if you swipe down from the left side of the screen.
  - walthamstow 1y ago
    With a case on the phone, my success rate of swiping downwards like that is about 60%
flyinghamster 1y ago
Oh great, I get to learn how to use my phone all over again. We need a "leave this the $EXPLETIVE alone" setting for our user interfaces.
- eurekin 1y ago
  I think this topic returns with some regularity... It often ends with justification about the need for a promotion of a particular executive that is involved with that inevitably undeniable success
- voidfunc 1y ago
  UI engineers need to justify their existence.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - hadlock 1y ago
    I genuinely think this is the case, and why products don't have a LTS interface, even though they ought to. Sign me right up for the 10 year LTS interface. I can't recall any features in gmail that were added that I actually use besides labels, which was an early launch feature. But it's been redesigned about 9 times in the last 20 years, each time with increasing white space and/or a slightly different font.
    - lupire 1y ago
      LTS interface is expensive for minimal benefit.
      - kasabali 1y ago
        More expensive than re-designing it every 2 years?
    - SchemaLoad 1y ago
      If you need an LTS interface you might be best with one of those old people smartphones with the big numberpad.
taurusnoises 1y ago
As someone who's very much on the outside of the Apple / Android debate (though I've never owned an iPhone, I do use a Mac and an iPad), and as someone who's relatively tech illiterate, how does this announcement read in light of Apple's latest liquid glass stuff, and the pushback I'm seeing from almost every angle. Is this Google announcement at all in response to the negative reaction Apple is getting? Does what Google is saying here get anyone excited? Maybe even excited enough to switch over?
- mosdl 1y ago
  Android is a different beast since OEMs highly customize the UX. Samsung could easily make a horrible liquid glass ripoff and stick it on Android without Google doing anything. Most of Google's work on Android seems to be around making smaller changes for the UX and bigger internal changes (splitting up the OS so individual parts can be updated without the OEM involvement, security changes, etc).
- sylens 1y ago
  Google announced Material 3 Expressive a month or two ago, way before WWDC
  - skiman10 1y ago
    And just to clarify, Material 3 Expressive is not shipping in these builds, that will be in a quarterly release build in probably in the first week of September.
- beezlebroxxxxxx 1y ago
  I've used an Android and Apple phone on and off since the first phones were available with the respective OSs. In general, I've found the Android UI to be more intuitive (although they've both had their boondoggles). But lately it does seem like spinning wheels on the UI front for both. Without a distinct new feature to build the UI around, most UI changes just seem like change for the sake of change (ie. resume/executive driven design). Both OS seem to be approaching a very similar paradigm (Apple becoming more androidy IMO lately). Minor changes aren't going to cause major changes in popularity. "Liquid Glass" does seem to be uniquely disliked, and probably for good reasons, but Apple generally has ecosystem and brand lock-in that will put the brakes on much ship jumping.
adzm 1y ago
http://android.com/16 http://android.com/16 for more information rather than just these highlights
- nsriv 1y ago
  Was between submitting this and the link I did, but opted for the latter because the redesign is coming later. Thanks for adding this!
throw_m239339 1y ago
I remember my first android device, it had like 512MO of RAM (and storage), and it was blazing fast, it could be used as a WIFI repeater too (which is why I still have it, although it 2.5G...). Fast forward 13 year later or so, if your android device doesn't have at least 8gig of RAM and 64gigs of storage, then it's pretty much useless given how bloated the OS (and the apps) have become... So basically, Android low end has become useless, I remember 10+ years ago having to search for something very fast because of the context, like something on a map or surf the web for info. It was still super responsive with 512MO... I tried a few cheap Android phones recently... they are simply unresponsive, google apps will suddenly shut down because the device is out of memory or something... or you try to make a call, you make a mistake so you try to hang up, the phone will refuse to hang up because it's stuck! you'd have to remove the battery to quickly cancel the call! What the hell happened with that OS?
- esseph 1y ago
  The same thing that happens to every OS, features and bloat. That said, Pixel devices all the way. No gross UI reskin, no having multiple copies of the same type of app (Samsung camera vs android camera, dialers, keyboards, etc.). Fast, stable, good features. If it's not a pixel device, you're probably going to have a "mid" experience.
  - MostlyStable 1y ago
    Which is unfortunate, because one of the strengths of Android was the diversity of the hardware ecosystem (although that strength has been lessening as manufacturers have all begun to converge on a common set of hardware features). You could get a phone that had the features you in particular wanted. Needing to buy a particular phone to get a good experience is a bummer. I say that as someone who has had several Pixel phones (and Nexus before that) and been happy with them. But yeah, my most recent phone is a low-end Motorola that I picked specifically for a set of hardware features, but unfortunately, as the parent commenter describes, it has been a _terrible_ experience for a variety of reasons. I got the hardware features I wanted (mostly, no one makes the full set I want anymore, see above), and it turns out that I had to give up a halfway-decent software experience.
ChrisArchitect 1y ago
Remember when these launches used to revolve around the codenames. This one is Baklava. As much as Material-era numbered releases have a style, I miss the personality of the confectionary-themed marketing.
- nsriv 1y ago
  I liked the unveils of the confectionary themed Androids on the campus!
paxys 1y ago
I like their Material Expressive design a lot more now after Apple's big reveal. While it's still a bit too colorful and whimsical for my liking, it does stay much closer to what I think should be the top UX design ideal - be clear, legible, and get out of the way. On the new iOS every screen feels like some UX designer is shouting "look how amazing I am at this!!" at me.
- LorenDB 1y ago
  My main complaint with Material Expressive is that every other button seems to be 85% padding and 15% actual content. What happened to reasonable information density?
  - legitster 1y ago
    For control surfaces, padding prevents misclicks. It's actually very important part of perceived interface quality when dealing with a handheld touchscreen device.
    - robocat 1y ago
      Different topic: CSS doesn't have a good way to manage nearby clicks? A tap just a few px outside a button should click the button? <Input>s can steal focus from nearby taps on Mobile Safari (which can also be a fuckup). I hate iPhone taps that slip a little and scrollable areas having queer interactions (causing usability/accessibility issues).
      - crazygringo 1y ago
        You could, but you don't want it to. Buttons are e.g. often floating above content, or adjacent to other buttons. It's just as bad to click a button you don't want to, when you're merely trying to scroll, or highlight text, or click another button. Making a button's clickable area larger than the button itself can be desirable in limited circumstances, but it's not a general-purpose solution.
pjmlp 1y ago
Great, another version that my devices won't get. Currently stuck between 12 and 14, and really there is hardly any reason to update. For technical stuff, better check here, https://developer.android.com/about/versions/16/summary https://developer.android.com/about/versions/16/summary And the promised WebGPU for Java and Kotlin, discussed at Vulkanised 2025 apparently didn't made the cut to Android 16.
whalesalad 1y ago
material design + "Google Sans" is probably the most nauseating combo imaginable.
villedespommes 1y ago
I'm really excited about the Desktop mode, now I can finally break free of Samsung!
- nfriedly 1y ago
  FWIW, Motorola has also had this feature for years, but they call it "Ready For", which is a terrible name. That said, I'm also looking forward to the official Google version coming to the rest of the Android devices
  - culopatin 1y ago
    I remember my Atrix had a desktop mode back in… 2011? Something like that.
  - villedespommes 1y ago
    Each year, fewer and fewer Motorola phones actually support this feature over usb-c and it looks like they renamed it to "Smart Connect." https://en-emea.support.motorola.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/160550/~/smart-connect-compatibility-chart https://en-emea.support.motorola.com/app/answers/detail/a_id... Shame, I liked it very much since Samsung phones are expensive
    - nfriedly 1y ago
      Wow, they are terrible at naming things!
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
  As am I though it's not in this release.
- ZuLuuuuuu 1y ago
  I was also very excited about it and that's why I immediately upgraded to Android 16. But it turns out that it is not part of this update. The same with the new Material design, it doesn't come with Android 16 update. So weird that they announced both of these features as if they are part of Android 16.
zb3 1y ago
Ah, so the "Linux Terminal" app is not yet ready for any announcements. This app with 3D acceleration enabling running graphical linux systems is what I'm waiting for, but it looks like we'll wait another year..
- chasil 1y ago
  Connectbot has a local terminal that I have always used for this purpose.
  - zb3 1y ago
    But what I was talking about was kernel virtualization where the guest OS performs at native speed and without any hacks.
- adhamsalama 1y ago
  How does it enable graphical Linux systems? I mean, I did already do this by running KDE Plasma on Termux, but why would Google allow this?
  - zb3 1y ago
    They did with "VmLauncherApp" and I was able to run Fedora, however GPU acceleration didn't work. Now, of course they removed the app :) But there's a "linux terminal" app which at least in theory should allow something similar since GPU acceleration was mentioned, but the app is limited "on user builds".. Note this uses kernel virtualization, so it's faster and more properly separated.
- fhcbix 1y ago
  Right? It would be the single most useful feature for me. Unfortunately my device doesn't have libavf which seems to be needed for this to work. I don't even need 3d acceleration, a simple debian VM with docker would make me happy already.
ferguess_k 1y ago
Let me guess -- they revamped the UI again.
t1234s 1y ago
Can you use an external monitor with a usb-c hub and a bluetooth mouse/keyboard in desktop mode?
- nfriedly 1y ago
  It sounds like the new features are coming later this year. But, some Samsung and Motorola phones already support that (DeX and "Ready For"), and there's a kind of janky version that you can unlock in developer settings for phones (including Pixel 8 & 9) that have video output but no built-in desktop mode.
- jakub_g 1y ago
  On Pixel 8 + Android 15, I can already connect an external monitor via "screen mirroring" feature. My keyboard and mouse, which are plugged into USB ports in the monitor, do work. However the annoying thing is that many apps which display video (official TV streaming apps from my ISP etc.) detect the presence of an external display, and prevent video playback there. Sigh.
- Rebelgecko 1y ago
  You already can if you're not picky about window manager features
melodyogonna 1y ago
Interesting that these are no longer tied to latest Pixel phone releases
- nsriv 1y ago
  They're bringing up the phone release to a late August unveil and shipping this year, and the Material Expressive update will ship after that, so it seems a big one time shift to attempt to time it with hardware.
old_bayes 1y ago
I love the detailed security features. Exactly what I want in my OS.
tootie 1y ago
As a long time Android user, I scarcely even notice OS updates. My last 3 phones have felt like they were about the same device.
absurdo 1y ago
Did they fix the localhost tracking issue?
idle_zealot 1y ago
It's deeply disappointing to see that the multitasking solution for tablets that Google and Apple have settled on is... desktop-style floating windows, but without workspaces or window snapping. There's so much space here to experiment with tiling views, scrolling columns of windows, whatever. Floating windows are cumbersome enough when you have a mouse and big display to spread things out on. I've tried this floating window thing in beta on my Pixel Tablet and iPad's windowing on the iPadOS 26 beta and they're basically worthless. A straight downgrade compared to the existing split views. They'd have done better to just let me add more apps to a split view.
- Rediscover 1y ago
  Or maybe like when the virtual desktop is larger than the viewport? OLVWM-ish.
- dagmx 1y ago
  iPadOs has window tiling if that’s what you mean by snapping and has had it for longer than floating windows. And stage manager is basically workspaces by another name.
- __aru 1y ago
  I think that it could be a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". The desktop paradigm is decades old, and deviating from it would probably elicit negative feedback (as seen in previous attempts by Apple in iPadOS). > desktop-style floating windows, but without workspaces or window snapping. In the new Desktop mode on Android, it supports snapping windows as well as multiple desktops/workspaces. In iPadOS you can snap windows to halves or quadrants.
- yencabulator 1y ago
  Well, ChromeOS has both snapping and workspaces, and they intend to replace ChromeOS with Android, so I fully expect them to show up.
hwc 1y ago
If Android is getting desktop windowing, how long until I can just plug my phone into a monitor and keyboard and have a usable computer?
- dcdevito 1y ago
  [dead]
- cbm-vic-20 1y ago
  You can plug a keyboard and mouse into your Andriod phone for many years. I haven't had one work with a monitor yet, though.
  - hwc 1y ago
    It almost works. But the monitor just mirrors the phone, including its weird aspect ratio and font size. It's almost usable for playing movies on a TV, but that's about it.
- izacus 1y ago
  You could do that for years with Samsung phones already.
  - fsflover 1y ago
    No, you can't. There's no usable desktop software that you can run there. Artificial restrictions will stay, although might be slightly relaxed. In contrast with Librem 5 running GNU/Linux (my daily driver) this is already a reality.
    - izacus 1y ago
      This is just weird goal post moving.
      - const_cast 1y ago
        I don't think so, this has always been the limitation and why things like Windows ARM and Windows Phone fail over and over again. The interface part is easy, I guess, the application part is not. If you can figure out the application part, then you have a real shot at disrupting the market. So far, only Apple has figured out the applications part on MacOS, and only partially. They still have wierdo iPadOS. Microsoft is doing Windows on ARM... again. We'll see how long that lasts.
mcintyre1994 1y ago
I'm surprised they didn't have live notifications or desktop windowing. I guess features like that go from Android OEMs, to iOS, then to Android itself. Do Google have their own Pixel versions of things like that before they make it to Android though?
- ptx 1y ago
  I'm pretty sure notifications could always be updated after being created. The actual change seems to be not that they now support "live updates" (as the article says) but that the UI now supports a customizable progress bar: https://developer.android.com/about/versions/16/features/progress-centric-notifications https://developer.android.com/about/versions/16/features/pro...
quyleanh 1y ago
Detail of changes in here http://android.com/16 http://android.com/16
ge96 1y ago
Funny my phone is cheap usually a version behind. Eventually I notice the performance and get another one or the screen was destroyed. Sucks how the version is capped too by the company ahh well pro/con.
fcpk 1y ago
One extremely disappointing thing that Android has been getting under the hood with Google images is ... Play integrity. This used to be a relatively simplistic system with three tiers: 0 - you are not certified for anything 1 - basic integrity, you need to have a genuine android device running google play services 2 - device integrity, you need to have a genuine android device with core requirements on play and no rooting 3 - strong integrity, you need a locked bootloader and signed image with recent security update This API/requirements set was uniquely put by pressure from various vendors(think banks and various "security-certification" obsessed parties), and was already quite unpleasant, as it excludes any form of rooting, even if your root-access is adb only. But it gets worse as now non-official images are getting excluded not only from strong integrity[0] but also device integrity. Numerous apps are now requiring device integrity and hence won't be usable even on a locked, signed android image if it's not google or vendor-official. It actually gets worse. Google has been silently restricting the api results(as of may): - basic requires a certified device with an android platform key attestation - device now requires a hardware verified boot, with locked bootloader and recent security patch. This excludes lots of devices - strong requires security patch on all partitions And it gets even worse. On recent play stores & android versions, as apps have to be installed or updated by google play to get a full integirty response. no more sideloading APKs or alternative stores. This is nothing but a clear move to a full lock-in to play store, where the majority of vendors live, to end up with a fully locked a-la-apple ecosystem. This doesn't improve security, people that know still have ways to bypass those restrictions when needed. All it does is give the illusion of safety. I would personally feel like: 1 - rooting should be allowed on a certified device with most apps still working. This could be done with a locked bootloader too if they provided such an image for debug. 2 - alternative os, like graphene, should be given a way to pass all attestations, as well as alternative stores, provided they follow a set of constraints. With this in mind, I can't be positive about android 16 and new versions going down a grim locked future. [0] https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/6361-play-integrity-api-and-future-of-grapheneos https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/6361-play-integrity-api-and...
- charcircuit 1y ago
  >rooting should be allowed on a certified device I don't think this should be allowed because rooting breaks the Android security model. Devices that don't follow at least Android's security model should not be allowed that way apps understand the security model of Android. >grapheneos should be given a way to pass all attestations There already is the Android attestation API that can be used to attest grapheneos. But I do think it would be nice if Play Integrity would expand beyond just Play Protect Certified devices, to devices which can prove they offer a similar or greater level of security.
smusamashah 1y ago
Not available for Pixel/XL, Pixel 2/XL, Pixel 3/XL, Pixel 3a/XL, Pixel 4/XL, Pixel 4a, Pixel 4a 5G, Pixel 5, or Pixel 5a. I have Pixel 4a and I wanted to get Android 16 to get the smaller notification tile buttons back.
- pulkitanand 1y ago
  Nice to see someone still using a 4a. I'm still rocking a 3a XL with lineage (massively resisting the urge to upgrade to a Pixel 9). I'm quite certain they'll do a lineage release for our phones for Android 16, hoping to use my phone for as much longer as possible!
  - walthamstow 1y ago
    How's the battery? Have you ever replaced it?
    - smusamashah 1y ago
      I am using second-hand 4a which I bought more than year ago off eBay. On low to medium use, it still manages ~1-1.5 day on average. Battery is solid. My wife has Pixel 4, I like camera result of that one slightly better. 4a is a bit blurry in comparison.
- sambf 1y ago
  Is the 4a still supported with security updates? What OS are you running? GrapheneOS stopped support so I scored a cheap 8a but I really dislike it. Had to boot my 4a again for some reason the other day and I realized I really missed it, it's so small and lightweight compared to the 8a.
  - smusamashah 1y ago
    Last update is from 5 November 2023.
- yencabulator 1y ago
AbuAssar 1y ago
I'll take Material Expressive over iOS's liquid glass any day.
- tail_exchange 1y ago
  I'm on the other camp. I'm so tired of the boring flat design, I'm actually considering switching to an iPhone.
  - bitpush 1y ago
    Are you not worried about accessibility issues?
    - tail_exchange 1y ago
      No. Like always, there will be visual accessibility features such as high contrast, reducing screen motion, dark mode, and reduced transparency. I never had to use them, but according to a family member who is blind, Apple is excellent in terms of accessibility.
clearleaf 1y ago
I wonder what method they've employed to make SD cards even more useless this time around.
swah 1y ago
Also a bit sick of the iOS update... Whats the MVP (minimum viable pixel) nowadays? Google lineup is super expensive in my country, probably zero support, so I'm afraid of investing. I tried a (used) 6a, it was lovely (compared to my Samsung) until it wouldn't scroll while charging (a known issue) so I returned it.
nipperkinfeet 1y ago
The release of Apple's new glass design has made Material Expressive appear aesthetically pleasing. Apple has declined so much, it's unfortunate.
- visarga 1y ago
  Maybe Apple thought they need to make a desperate move to deflect from their lack of AI?
  - anticrymactic 1y ago
    Call me old, but I don't think users want AI. Apple summary's turned out barely helpful and that was the big, simple and easy AI application. Instead of a working voice assistant, what uses does AI (LLM) have on a smartphone?
    - TiredOfLife 1y ago
      > Apple summary's turned out barely helpful and that was the big, simple and easy AI application. Instead of a working voice assistant That's the point. Apple is years behind on that stuff
    - thecupisblue 1y ago
      It's just that the implementations are shitty and designed for an "email-calendar-zoom" lifecycle corporate humans, and everyone is trying to "create a new frontier!" while ignoring the actual user behaviour - yes, we sure want to hear an LLM describe Kim K's new instagram post instead of seeing it.
- awakeasleep 1y ago
  The first developer-only beta release?
- thecupisblue 1y ago
  Unfortunately, yes. Even tho I find both abhorrent abominations of design. Glass is a pain in itself and "preparing for a future in spatial computing" is such a bullshit line when the spatial computing future is still 5-10 years away at minimum, and will not be achieved with Apple Vision, at least not in the current shape and form. Meanwhile, Material Expressive is trying to force a 2020 graphic design trend onto mobile apps. It literally feels like designers at google just wanted to do something new and modern, so they went with a bland corporate "modern design" aesthetic, that reduces UX in name of UI - even tho they are like oooooh users found this button 30% faster, it would be well fucking expected, since highly-paid designers have just redesigned the thing. Meanwhile, apps will continue to be made in their own style. Apple will release liquid glass support with 26 and we'll see it appear in new apps. At the same time, Google will probably do a partial release of the new material components for developers, where a giant part of components will lack features described by the design spec, a bunch will be missing, and a bunch will be utterly unusable because Google can't create a good DX to save their lives.
atum47 1y ago
Any improvements to battery life? I feel like my pixel 8 pro battery is dying a lot faster now. I would like to trade it in for a pixel 9 pro xl, but it's kinda hard/impossible to do in Brazil. I got a good deal from best buy but you need to have a US issued document to trade your phone in, bummer. Any plans to ever sell it in Brazil?
pradn 1y ago
It's easier to keep doing something incremental than to fundamentally change things. One avenue these phone OS, and any consumer OS, can pursue is making it easy to string together app sub-steps. An app can be "cracked open" into sub-step a) either by developers themselves b) or by a backend process at app submission time. The backend process could look at the screens, and see what the user journeys are - this is within reach for current LLMs. An "sub-step" here is like taking a flights app and turning it into different types of search functions - search by date, location, points etc. So an app becomes a bunch of interfaces. Once you have these "sub-steps" a local LLM can string them together, because it can understand their inputs, outputs, and behaviors. Actually executing the sub-steps would require the OS to execute the app in the background and run the sub-steps for the user. This would be akin to what browser agents do right now So this is a way of semantically extracting the "verbs" in existing apps. With a library of these "sub-steps" in apps, combined with similar ones extracted from the internet - you could chain together the web and native worlds, in the service of the user. It's easier on phone OSs because phone apps are usually already logged in. It's realistic for iOS to just do a bunch of stuff for you in the background. You really can probably get finance info from all your finance apps, for example. I'm not saying this is necessarily the answer - but re-thinking the OS in this sort of what is what would be an actually ambitious thing for Apple or Google to do. All these small tweaks are opiates.
- thecupisblue 1y ago
  This is already supported by intent system on Android and partially by the new intents in iOS. It is now up to developers to expose this.
eth0up 1y ago
Yay! Less control, more limitations and background shenanigans. Anyone ever stop to notice how skillful google is at putting lipstick on pigs? To watch their artisans in action, simply do: Settings/System/DeveloperOptions/RunningServices and tick Show Cached Processes after absorbing that in your immediate view, which will have included the 23 running processes under Play Services. Yeah yeah. There has to be lots of stuff in such a glorious suite. Of course it's crawling with things completely irrelevant to the user. We all know this. But can it ever go too far? I honestly don't feel more secure since that amazing update that blocks access to directories even through USB. Blocking Ghost Commander is one thing, but USB? I won't make a scathing list of complaints here. Each update tends to beg the task though. Edit: It's really complex, right? Google is honest and forthright. So they'd never lie about absolutely needing Precise Location to use Maps. Clearly it's necessary. While using pure GPS appears for all practical purposes to do everything I need, in truth, not having Scanning activated threatens much destruction and a subconsciously worse navigation experience. I've read the arguments for why the End will come if Scanning access isn't given, but I stopped using Maps, and Scanning too, and things seem fine. Try to figure this one out. And how the F do I get my files out of the Audio Recorder directory? I must Share them, via email. No access unless Shared, over the Internet. If this isn't an upgrade, I'm lost. I'm just going to guess this new version has an embedded uninterruptible LLM that tells the user what they want and how to use the device. Because that's something Google doesn't believe the user is capable of.
- hnpolicestate 1y ago
  Downvoted because it's true as is typical for HN. Safety!!!! Because the adult user is a child or something.
curtisszmania 1y ago
[dead]
sagarpatil 1y ago
The worst part is I’m so deep in Apple ecosystem that it’s impossible to move to Android.
- unixhero 1y ago
  People say that to themselves.
- anticrymactic 1y ago
  I'm genuinely so interested what this ecosystem is? Where do you use it? How does it help you? I have asked every apple user around me and they just tell me about photo sync and iCloud.
  - wilkinsonsmooth 1y ago
    I worked for Apple Support over the phone for a while and had to deal with people's photos issues. And let me tell you that the way iCloud photo syncing works is basically only to lock people in. It's just convoluted enough that the average user won't have a good idea of where exactly their photos are stored. Especially when they run out of space on their phone (very easy to do when 128gb is still the base storage space). The UI makes it seem like the only option is to buy iCloud storage and once you're paying for storage then it really makes it unclear how you could access your photos on anything other than an Apple device. That alone is enough to lock most users in to the ecosystem. The idea of figuring out how to transfer all your photos to an Android device is too much work for most people.
  - sagarpatil 1y ago
    Let need explain. Windows user for 28 years. I decided to try macOS and got hooked (no more WSL). Moved from Android to iPhone because of tight integration with macOS. 1. Universal copy (copy from/to Mac) 2. Automatically fill OTP from phone to mac 3. Passwords app integration means I don’t have to fill 2FA manually (mac or iPhone) 4. I use Apple TV 4K and I can use my iPhone as a remote, use it for color calibration, use it as a dedicated camera for FaceTime on TV 5. I use Apple Watch to receive important calls/ notifications when my phone is not around. When you are using Watch, macOS does not ask you to enter system password for when you are changing system settings, installing/uninstalling apps etc. These are the things at the top of my mind, I’m sure I can come up with much more. Photo sync and iCloud are pretty easy to replace with Google Photos/G drive, so I’m not worried about that part. It’s these small things that add up and make the whole experience better.
edg5000 1y ago
"Samsung DeX has helped maximize productivity on phones, foldables and tablets for years. In Android 16, we worked closely with Samsung to develop desktop windowing, a new way to interact with your apps and content on large-screen devices." <- What does "working closely" mean for a company with infinite SW dev resources? What do they need from Samsung as far as software goes? PS Let me make a guess for the future. Android Desktop mode will improve and people will ditch Windows and instead plug their phone into a USB-C dock that connects it to keyboard, mouse and display. (I'm on Linux myself, but I see people moving to Android from Windows)
- nashashmi 1y ago
  This is the future that can’t be more ignored. It is like finally bringing call interrupt feature in internet dial up modems but only after everyone migrated to DSL. Windows Lumia was the first device to bring this functionality from an OS developer. Samsung had this for premium hardware. Apple came up with stage manager for iPad but left it out of iPhone. And no one really cares about this feature enough. What is this feature in reality? It is just a projected screen with a certain resolution. And then it has apps that appear and open as resizable windows. Android had a downloadable app called something like Sense that did this but the app developers didn’t make apps with resizable windows at the time. I guess part of the working closely is to cause developers to display apps that can be resized. And resize it for them in the event they refuse.
- nikanj 1y ago
  My guess for the future is that no app maker dares to put efforts into Android Desktop mode because they worry Google will leave them high and dry, and in two-three releases the desktop mode will be abandoned because it has no app support
- rickdeckard 1y ago
  > What does "working closely" mean for a company with infinite SW dev resources? What do they need from Samsung as far as software goes? Samsung already learned lessons from that journey, Google did not. Also, the Android strategy is to not compete with Android vendors on OS features, they rather collaborate to make them contribute improvements back to the OS. This strategy makes the project faster, cheaper, reduces fragmentation, removes a competitor (!), and most of all reduces brand-stickiness within the Android ecosystem (--> if Samsung DeX gets merged into Android, Samsung users can switch brands easier).
octo888 1y ago
"Unfortunately, Android has made changes which will make it much harder for us to port to Android 16 and future releases. It will also make adding support for new Pixels much more difficult. We're likely going to need to focus on making GrapheneOS devices sooner than we expected." https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114662145938666044 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114662145938666044
- u5wbxrc3 1y ago
  I can not love this development project enough its the peak of Android custom ROM. I am curious though as to what they have changed so much that it is going to be more difficult.
  - octo888 1y ago
    Oh, they also had the issue that one of the leading devs got forcibly conscripted. Quickly scanning GrapheneOS's posts I couldn't find any detail about the technical challenges. They'll probably post about it in the coming months
    - cenamus 1y ago
      I mean, conscription is per definition forced, isn't it?
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - octo888 1y ago
        Is such nitpicking necessary? It derails the conversation
      - thyristan 1y ago
        Yes and no. In some countries and depending on peace or war times, you are forced into service, but you can choose to do military service or be a conscientious objector and work as a hospital aide.
sudomateo 1y ago
The more I compare Material 3 Expressive to Liquid Glass the more I'm excited to switch back to a Pixel. I'm a fan of the use of color, motions, and different shapes versus transparency, minimal contrast, and little color. I'm on a iPhone 13 Pro Max right now that's still doing well but starting to show battery capacity age. Plus, it's the only non-USB-C device I own so I'd be happy to get rid of it.
- jajuuka 1y ago
  This WWDC was the nail in the coffin for me. Apple has lost the plot and is back to self indulgent projects. Picked up a Pixel again and glad I don't have to deal with liquid glass in the future.
  - sudomateo 1y ago
    I feel similarly. This iPhone is the only Apple device I own outside of a shared Apple TV. I'm not in the Apple ecosystem so moving back to Pixel for me would be easy. I'm not impressed with Apple as of late.
- ChocolateGod 1y ago
  I'd move to a pixel if it was the same hardware value as the corresponding Samsung or OnePlus, they always just seem to be a year or two behind.
  - sudomateo 1y ago
    I'm going to wait for the Pixel 10 to see what specs it has. I believe you're right though it's a bit behind on other manufacturers in terms of hardware. It would still be a jump for me coming from an iPhone 13.
andrelaszlo 1y ago
> Clearer, simpler calling with hearing devices This is really important for me. Currently, hearing aids will turn to full duplex during calls, and be used as both input and output. - Audio quality will be much worse, since the bandwidth is split between the two channels. This is obviously bad if you're already struggling to hear. - Listening to music, for example, the volume controls on the hearing aids simultaneously turn surrounding sounds down and the music up, or vice versa. In "phone-call" mode, however, the phone hijacks the volume control so if you're struggling to hear on a call in a noisy environment there's no way to increase the volume without simultaneously amplifying the surrounding noise to painfully loud levels. - As mentioned in the article, the microphones are designed to make me hear other people but not myself, making other people complain about my sound a lot. The best I can do is to say "sorry - either you'll hear me like this or I won't hear you at all" This was designed for people using BT headsets of course, but hearing aids are not headsets. On Linux I can just pick which microphone I want to use and which mode to use for Bluetooth. It's worked flawlessly for the last decade. To me, that's being "user friendly", good UX, or whatever you want to call it. On Windows, you can go deep into some ancient, almost hidden, settings and disable the microphone on the BT device. On macOS, you can do the same using the old Audio MIDI Setup tool. It will periodically reset itself of course, like anything related to a11y on macOS. Not sure about iOS, would be interesting to know.
- skybrian 1y ago
  It seems LE Audio is required for this feature and there aren’t many hearing aids that support it. Maybe I’ll check again in a year.
wilkinsonsmooth 1y ago
With the discussion specifically the last few days of UI themes on iOS and Android, I haven't really seen any one point out the biggest difference between the two. On Android you can change basically everything you want. You don't like the way the new theme makes your apps looks? Then find something you do like instead. You can change all your app icons, the colours of all your buttons, you can change out your home app altogether. There are certain things you are stuck with depending on your device manufacturer and their own brew of Android, but you can customize the device way more than any Apple device. That's one of the things that has kept me away from Apple devices, is that you can't change basic things about how they look or operate. It's all on Apple's terms. I also dislike how they add the most basic things, like changing the background on your chats, and act like they just invented it.
- wilkinsonsmooth 1y ago
  One thing about the Apple Liquid Glass announcement from the other day is neither here nor there is how it was worded. They kept referring to it as a 'new material' and I thought at first it was a joke or something because to me it looked like a UI update. I thought it was all tongue-in-cheek maybe but they just kept up the idea that it was a real physical material for a lot of the post about it.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
cAtte_ 1y ago
> With Android 16, you can now activate Advanced Protection, Google’s strongest mobile device protection. It enables an array of robust device security features that protect you from online attacks, harmful apps, unsafe websites, scam calls and more. blah blah let me guess: Advanced Protection will continue to gain features that restrict the freedom of users in the name of security and some time from now it will be mandatorily enabled for everyone. classic google!
- jajuuka 1y ago
  To me it seems like Google trying to mirror the iOS Advanced Data Protection and lockdown mode. Just ways to put security front and center to counter Apple's "we're the privacy company" schtick.
ncr100 1y ago
Installed (Pixel Fold 1). Nothing is visibly different. * Saw an unexpected notification post-upgrade that, when I clicked it, took me to the wrong place. It was about "Body Sensor" permission for "Fit" which I assumed meant Google Fit needed additional info about my private health info. A crappy workflow for me, since the warning was real, I became alarmed .. hoping that "Fit" really was simply Google Fit, and ended up in Google Play Services' app information settings sheet. * Took me to a 'welcome to new pixel' which has overgrown its UX with OS 16. It had 3 'new' features to tell me about - something about 'VIP' which seemed like over-optimization of a workflow. Some other stuff which was not relevant to me (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44245460 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44245460). It also had an enormous list of differently colored (highlighted, not-highlighted) icons which led me to info about features, UGH .. in "Wizard" format (next, next, next) so I could not see an overview, nor know which I had previously viewed during the prior 15 OS iterations...so I abandoned that mini "Welcome" app. -- Also, the mini videos in the "Welcome" app are inscrutable. My Pixel Fold 1 main screen is already small, and then the video illustrating the features is not zoomable. Clicking it merely pauses it. The videos show a hypothetical Pixel phone and a hypothetical human finger-tip dragging its way across the screen. Then the video wants me to read some of this 3x-too-small text, because THAT is the POINT of the video I had the most annoyance at .. the text content was somehow the feature. Yes I should have put my glasses on (+1.2 prescription - slight far-sighted), though it seems like I should be able to read the text-in-video from 2' away...it's literally the Welcome app, for ALL users, not some extra-niche app. Human Factors People gave zero shits about that IMO.
Nerd_Nest 1y ago
Cool to see how far NotebookLM has come. For anyone interested, I came across this breakdown on the Android app launch and how it works with AI: https://www.squaredtech.co/google-launches-notebooklm-android-app-with-ai https://www.squaredtech.co/google-launches-notebooklm-androi...
h4kunamata 1y ago
Those tools/features are more ways to collect data easily. I have a Pixel 7 Pro running GrapheneOS , I am never going back to an AndroidOS, period. The level of privacy and control GOS provides is like no other, and the security update is always ahead of Google. GOS in fact has found and reported vulnerabilities which we get released to our phone faster than Google. I am too biased to say anything, I went De-Google years ago, I am using web version instead of apps, if only people knew how much crappy is running in their phone. However, I still access YouTube coz TV sucks and there is no better service, and YouTube Music coz any other service sucks with poor content. Mobiles releases from some time now have been more of the same, it is even worse on Apple side lmao, but now things are getting worse with AI everywhere. AI IMHO means more data being collected, more features and services that are cloud based instead of locally, meaning, soon or later since everything is running on the cloud, you must pay a subscription. Remember, when it comes to big tech nothing is free, you either pay for a subscription or your personal data is the payment.
- charlie-83 1y ago
  How did you deal with banking apps? That's the main thing that stops me moving to Graphene since I have a lot of accounts that either only have an app or only allow you to do certain things through the app.
  - onionjake 1y ago
    I switched banks until one worked. Others I access on the web.
    - charlie-83 1y ago
      Yeah, I don't know how if that would work for me. I have a lot of banking/finance related accounts which I carefully choose for best interest rates etc. Restricting what companies I can use like this would probably end up effectively costing me quite a lot of money.
leonardo41 1y ago
[dead]

Android 16 is here

335 points by nsriv 1y ago

nsriv 1y ago

Factory images here: https://developers.google.com/android/images https://developers.google.com/android/images

jonah 1y ago
From that page: Warning: The May 2025 update for Pixel 6 (6, 6 Pro, 6a) and Pixel 8 (8, 8 Pro, 8a) devices contains a bootloader update that increments the anti-roll back version for the bootloader. This prevents the device from rolling back to previous vulnerable versions of the bootloader. After flashing the May 2025 update on these devices you won't be able to flash and boot older Android 15 builds.
rkagerer 1y ago
What's with the AI-generated "Key Takeaways" crap on the right column of that page? No thanks, the content is short enough I can easily skim it on my own.
- autoexec 1y ago
  >What's with the AI-generated "Key Takeaways" crap on the right column of that page? Desperation

mouse_ 1y ago

Are they still moving forward with killing AOSP?

edude03 1y ago
Where did you get that idea?
- XiS 1y ago
  There's quite the panic discussion in GrapheneOS matrix chat
- ivanmontillam 1y ago
  It's not a crazy idea where he's coming from: - Google will develop Android OS behind closed doors starting next week: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43484927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43484927 - Google will develop the Android OS in private: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43482798 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43482798 It's reasonable to think Google is choking AOSP.

mrweasel 1y ago

The notification feature looks nice. I've pretty much exclusively used iOS, but honestly notifications is a weak point for iOS, in my opinion. I frequently have the 1 notification on my home screen, but once unlocked notifications are pretty much impossible to find again.

Groxx 1y ago
I'm certainly happy to see "force grouping". Grouping is a great opt-in enhancement, but it never should've been wholly in apps' control to begin with - apps in general cannot be trusted to not be dumb, gotta have user control to override them.
argsnd 1y ago
I agree that Android notifications are broadly better than iOS but the live activities feature was a good idea and I’m quite glad that’s been added to Android now
robertoandred 1y ago
Once unlocked, swipe down from the top of the screen to open Notification Center.
- int_19h 1y ago
  On iOS the annoying thing about this gesture is that it only does that if you swipe down from the center. If you do it from top right corner (which is rather generously defined), you get shortcuts instead.
  - p_j_w 1y ago
    It works if you swipe down from the left side of the screen.
- walthamstow 1y ago
  With a case on the phone, my success rate of swiping downwards like that is about 60%

flyinghamster 1y ago

Oh great, I get to learn how to use my phone all over again. We need a "leave this the $EXPLETIVE alone" setting for our user interfaces.

eurekin 1y ago
I think this topic returns with some regularity... It often ends with justification about the need for a promotion of a particular executive that is involved with that inevitably undeniable success
voidfunc 1y ago
UI engineers need to justify their existence.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- hadlock 1y ago
  I genuinely think this is the case, and why products don't have a LTS interface, even though they ought to. Sign me right up for the 10 year LTS interface. I can't recall any features in gmail that were added that I actually use besides labels, which was an early launch feature. But it's been redesigned about 9 times in the last 20 years, each time with increasing white space and/or a slightly different font.
  - lupire 1y ago
    LTS interface is expensive for minimal benefit.
    - kasabali 1y ago
      More expensive than re-designing it every 2 years?
  - SchemaLoad 1y ago
    If you need an LTS interface you might be best with one of those old people smartphones with the big numberpad.

taurusnoises 1y ago

As someone who's very much on the outside of the Apple / Android debate (though I've never owned an iPhone, I do use a Mac and an iPad), and as someone who's relatively tech illiterate, how does this announcement read in light of Apple's latest liquid glass stuff, and the pushback I'm seeing from almost every angle. Is this Google announcement at all in response to the negative reaction Apple is getting? Does what Google is saying here get anyone excited? Maybe even excited enough to switch over?

mosdl 1y ago
Android is a different beast since OEMs highly customize the UX. Samsung could easily make a horrible liquid glass ripoff and stick it on Android without Google doing anything. Most of Google's work on Android seems to be around making smaller changes for the UX and bigger internal changes (splitting up the OS so individual parts can be updated without the OEM involvement, security changes, etc).
sylens 1y ago
Google announced Material 3 Expressive a month or two ago, way before WWDC
- skiman10 1y ago
  And just to clarify, Material 3 Expressive is not shipping in these builds, that will be in a quarterly release build in probably in the first week of September.
beezlebroxxxxxx 1y ago
I've used an Android and Apple phone on and off since the first phones were available with the respective OSs. In general, I've found the Android UI to be more intuitive (although they've both had their boondoggles). But lately it does seem like spinning wheels on the UI front for both. Without a distinct new feature to build the UI around, most UI changes just seem like change for the sake of change (ie. resume/executive driven design). Both OS seem to be approaching a very similar paradigm (Apple becoming more androidy IMO lately). Minor changes aren't going to cause major changes in popularity. "Liquid Glass" does seem to be uniquely disliked, and probably for good reasons, but Apple generally has ecosystem and brand lock-in that will put the brakes on much ship jumping.

adzm 1y ago

http://android.com/16 http://android.com/16 for more information rather than just these highlights

nsriv 1y ago
Was between submitting this and the link I did, but opted for the latter because the redesign is coming later. Thanks for adding this!

throw_m239339 1y ago

I remember my first android device, it had like 512MO of RAM (and storage), and it was blazing fast, it could be used as a WIFI repeater too (which is why I still have it, although it 2.5G...). Fast forward 13 year later or so, if your android device doesn't have at least 8gig of RAM and 64gigs of storage, then it's pretty much useless given how bloated the OS (and the apps) have become... So basically, Android low end has become useless, I remember 10+ years ago having to search for something very fast because of the context, like something on a map or surf the web for info. It was still super responsive with 512MO... I tried a few cheap Android phones recently... they are simply unresponsive, google apps will suddenly shut down because the device is out of memory or something... or you try to make a call, you make a mistake so you try to hang up, the phone will refuse to hang up because it's stuck! you'd have to remove the battery to quickly cancel the call! What the hell happened with that OS?

esseph 1y ago
The same thing that happens to every OS, features and bloat. That said, Pixel devices all the way. No gross UI reskin, no having multiple copies of the same type of app (Samsung camera vs android camera, dialers, keyboards, etc.). Fast, stable, good features. If it's not a pixel device, you're probably going to have a "mid" experience.
- MostlyStable 1y ago
  Which is unfortunate, because one of the strengths of Android was the diversity of the hardware ecosystem (although that strength has been lessening as manufacturers have all begun to converge on a common set of hardware features). You could get a phone that had the features you in particular wanted. Needing to buy a particular phone to get a good experience is a bummer. I say that as someone who has had several Pixel phones (and Nexus before that) and been happy with them. But yeah, my most recent phone is a low-end Motorola that I picked specifically for a set of hardware features, but unfortunately, as the parent commenter describes, it has been a _terrible_ experience for a variety of reasons. I got the hardware features I wanted (mostly, no one makes the full set I want anymore, see above), and it turns out that I had to give up a halfway-decent software experience.

ChrisArchitect 1y ago

Remember when these launches used to revolve around the codenames. This one is Baklava. As much as Material-era numbered releases have a style, I miss the personality of the confectionary-themed marketing.

nsriv 1y ago
I liked the unveils of the confectionary themed Androids on the campus!

paxys 1y ago

I like their Material Expressive design a lot more now after Apple's big reveal. While it's still a bit too colorful and whimsical for my liking, it does stay much closer to what I think should be the top UX design ideal - be clear, legible, and get out of the way. On the new iOS every screen feels like some UX designer is shouting "look how amazing I am at this!!" at me.

LorenDB 1y ago
My main complaint with Material Expressive is that every other button seems to be 85% padding and 15% actual content. What happened to reasonable information density?
- legitster 1y ago
  For control surfaces, padding prevents misclicks. It's actually very important part of perceived interface quality when dealing with a handheld touchscreen device.
  - robocat 1y ago
    Different topic: CSS doesn't have a good way to manage nearby clicks? A tap just a few px outside a button should click the button? <Input>s can steal focus from nearby taps on Mobile Safari (which can also be a fuckup). I hate iPhone taps that slip a little and scrollable areas having queer interactions (causing usability/accessibility issues).
    - crazygringo 1y ago
      You could, but you don't want it to. Buttons are e.g. often floating above content, or adjacent to other buttons. It's just as bad to click a button you don't want to, when you're merely trying to scroll, or highlight text, or click another button. Making a button's clickable area larger than the button itself can be desirable in limited circumstances, but it's not a general-purpose solution.

pjmlp 1y ago

Great, another version that my devices won't get. Currently stuck between 12 and 14, and really there is hardly any reason to update. For technical stuff, better check here, https://developer.android.com/about/versions/16/summary https://developer.android.com/about/versions/16/summary And the promised WebGPU for Java and Kotlin, discussed at Vulkanised 2025 apparently didn't made the cut to Android 16.

whalesalad 1y ago

material design + "Google Sans" is probably the most nauseating combo imaginable.

villedespommes 1y ago

I'm really excited about the Desktop mode, now I can finally break free of Samsung!

nfriedly 1y ago
FWIW, Motorola has also had this feature for years, but they call it "Ready For", which is a terrible name. That said, I'm also looking forward to the official Google version coming to the rest of the Android devices
- culopatin 1y ago
  I remember my Atrix had a desktop mode back in… 2011? Something like that.
- villedespommes 1y ago
  Each year, fewer and fewer Motorola phones actually support this feature over usb-c and it looks like they renamed it to "Smart Connect." https://en-emea.support.motorola.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/160550/~/smart-connect-compatibility-chart https://en-emea.support.motorola.com/app/answers/detail/a_id... Shame, I liked it very much since Samsung phones are expensive
  - nfriedly 1y ago
    Wow, they are terrible at naming things!
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
2OEH8eoCRo0 1y ago
As am I though it's not in this release.
ZuLuuuuuu 1y ago
I was also very excited about it and that's why I immediately upgraded to Android 16. But it turns out that it is not part of this update. The same with the new Material design, it doesn't come with Android 16 update. So weird that they announced both of these features as if they are part of Android 16.

zb3 1y ago

Ah, so the "Linux Terminal" app is not yet ready for any announcements. This app with 3D acceleration enabling running graphical linux systems is what I'm waiting for, but it looks like we'll wait another year..

chasil 1y ago
Connectbot has a local terminal that I have always used for this purpose.
- zb3 1y ago
  But what I was talking about was kernel virtualization where the guest OS performs at native speed and without any hacks.
adhamsalama 1y ago
How does it enable graphical Linux systems? I mean, I did already do this by running KDE Plasma on Termux, but why would Google allow this?
- zb3 1y ago
  They did with "VmLauncherApp" and I was able to run Fedora, however GPU acceleration didn't work. Now, of course they removed the app :) But there's a "linux terminal" app which at least in theory should allow something similar since GPU acceleration was mentioned, but the app is limited "on user builds".. Note this uses kernel virtualization, so it's faster and more properly separated.
fhcbix 1y ago
Right? It would be the single most useful feature for me. Unfortunately my device doesn't have libavf which seems to be needed for this to work. I don't even need 3d acceleration, a simple debian VM with docker would make me happy already.

ferguess_k 1y ago

Let me guess -- they revamped the UI again.

t1234s 1y ago

Can you use an external monitor with a usb-c hub and a bluetooth mouse/keyboard in desktop mode?

nfriedly 1y ago
It sounds like the new features are coming later this year. But, some Samsung and Motorola phones already support that (DeX and "Ready For"), and there's a kind of janky version that you can unlock in developer settings for phones (including Pixel 8 & 9) that have video output but no built-in desktop mode.
jakub_g 1y ago
On Pixel 8 + Android 15, I can already connect an external monitor via "screen mirroring" feature. My keyboard and mouse, which are plugged into USB ports in the monitor, do work. However the annoying thing is that many apps which display video (official TV streaming apps from my ISP etc.) detect the presence of an external display, and prevent video playback there. Sigh.
Rebelgecko 1y ago
You already can if you're not picky about window manager features

melodyogonna 1y ago

Interesting that these are no longer tied to latest Pixel phone releases

nsriv 1y ago
They're bringing up the phone release to a late August unveil and shipping this year, and the Material Expressive update will ship after that, so it seems a big one time shift to attempt to time it with hardware.

old_bayes 1y ago

I love the detailed security features. Exactly what I want in my OS.

tootie 1y ago

As a long time Android user, I scarcely even notice OS updates. My last 3 phones have felt like they were about the same device.

absurdo 1y ago

Did they fix the localhost tracking issue?

idle_zealot 1y ago

It's deeply disappointing to see that the multitasking solution for tablets that Google and Apple have settled on is... desktop-style floating windows, but without workspaces or window snapping. There's so much space here to experiment with tiling views, scrolling columns of windows, whatever. Floating windows are cumbersome enough when you have a mouse and big display to spread things out on. I've tried this floating window thing in beta on my Pixel Tablet and iPad's windowing on the iPadOS 26 beta and they're basically worthless. A straight downgrade compared to the existing split views. They'd have done better to just let me add more apps to a split view.

Rediscover 1y ago
Or maybe like when the virtual desktop is larger than the viewport? OLVWM-ish.
dagmx 1y ago
iPadOs has window tiling if that’s what you mean by snapping and has had it for longer than floating windows. And stage manager is basically workspaces by another name.
__aru 1y ago
I think that it could be a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it". The desktop paradigm is decades old, and deviating from it would probably elicit negative feedback (as seen in previous attempts by Apple in iPadOS). > desktop-style floating windows, but without workspaces or window snapping. In the new Desktop mode on Android, it supports snapping windows as well as multiple desktops/workspaces. In iPadOS you can snap windows to halves or quadrants.
yencabulator 1y ago
Well, ChromeOS has both snapping and workspaces, and they intend to replace ChromeOS with Android, so I fully expect them to show up.

hwc 1y ago

If Android is getting desktop windowing, how long until I can just plug my phone into a monitor and keyboard and have a usable computer?

dcdevito 1y ago
[dead]
cbm-vic-20 1y ago
You can plug a keyboard and mouse into your Andriod phone for many years. I haven't had one work with a monitor yet, though.
- hwc 1y ago
  It almost works. But the monitor just mirrors the phone, including its weird aspect ratio and font size. It's almost usable for playing movies on a TV, but that's about it.
izacus 1y ago
You could do that for years with Samsung phones already.
- fsflover 1y ago
  No, you can't. There's no usable desktop software that you can run there. Artificial restrictions will stay, although might be slightly relaxed. In contrast with Librem 5 running GNU/Linux (my daily driver) this is already a reality.
  - izacus 1y ago
    This is just weird goal post moving.
    - const_cast 1y ago
      I don't think so, this has always been the limitation and why things like Windows ARM and Windows Phone fail over and over again. The interface part is easy, I guess, the application part is not. If you can figure out the application part, then you have a real shot at disrupting the market. So far, only Apple has figured out the applications part on MacOS, and only partially. They still have wierdo iPadOS. Microsoft is doing Windows on ARM... again. We'll see how long that lasts.

mcintyre1994 1y ago

I'm surprised they didn't have live notifications or desktop windowing. I guess features like that go from Android OEMs, to iOS, then to Android itself. Do Google have their own Pixel versions of things like that before they make it to Android though?

ptx 1y ago
I'm pretty sure notifications could always be updated after being created. The actual change seems to be not that they now support "live updates" (as the article says) but that the UI now supports a customizable progress bar: https://developer.android.com/about/versions/16/features/progress-centric-notifications https://developer.android.com/about/versions/16/features/pro...

quyleanh 1y ago

Detail of changes in here http://android.com/16 http://android.com/16

ge96 1y ago

Funny my phone is cheap usually a version behind. Eventually I notice the performance and get another one or the screen was destroyed. Sucks how the version is capped too by the company ahh well pro/con.

fcpk 1y ago

One extremely disappointing thing that Android has been getting under the hood with Google images is ... Play integrity. This used to be a relatively simplistic system with three tiers: 0 - you are not certified for anything 1 - basic integrity, you need to have a genuine android device running google play services 2 - device integrity, you need to have a genuine android device with core requirements on play and no rooting 3 - strong integrity, you need a locked bootloader and signed image with recent security update This API/requirements set was uniquely put by pressure from various vendors(think banks and various "security-certification" obsessed parties), and was already quite unpleasant, as it excludes any form of rooting, even if your root-access is adb only. But it gets worse as now non-official images are getting excluded not only from strong integrity[0] but also device integrity. Numerous apps are now requiring device integrity and hence won't be usable even on a locked, signed android image if it's not google or vendor-official. It actually gets worse. Google has been silently restricting the api results(as of may): - basic requires a certified device with an android platform key attestation - device now requires a hardware verified boot, with locked bootloader and recent security patch. This excludes lots of devices - strong requires security patch on all partitions And it gets even worse. On recent play stores & android versions, as apps have to be installed or updated by google play to get a full integirty response. no more sideloading APKs or alternative stores. This is nothing but a clear move to a full lock-in to play store, where the majority of vendors live, to end up with a fully locked a-la-apple ecosystem. This doesn't improve security, people that know still have ways to bypass those restrictions when needed. All it does is give the illusion of safety. I would personally feel like: 1 - rooting should be allowed on a certified device with most apps still working. This could be done with a locked bootloader too if they provided such an image for debug. 2 - alternative os, like graphene, should be given a way to pass all attestations, as well as alternative stores, provided they follow a set of constraints. With this in mind, I can't be positive about android 16 and new versions going down a grim locked future. [0] https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/6361-play-integrity-api-and-future-of-grapheneos https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/6361-play-integrity-api-and...

charcircuit 1y ago
>rooting should be allowed on a certified device I don't think this should be allowed because rooting breaks the Android security model. Devices that don't follow at least Android's security model should not be allowed that way apps understand the security model of Android. >grapheneos should be given a way to pass all attestations There already is the Android attestation API that can be used to attest grapheneos. But I do think it would be nice if Play Integrity would expand beyond just Play Protect Certified devices, to devices which can prove they offer a similar or greater level of security.

smusamashah 1y ago

Not available for Pixel/XL, Pixel 2/XL, Pixel 3/XL, Pixel 3a/XL, Pixel 4/XL, Pixel 4a, Pixel 4a 5G, Pixel 5, or Pixel 5a. I have Pixel 4a and I wanted to get Android 16 to get the smaller notification tile buttons back.

pulkitanand 1y ago
Nice to see someone still using a 4a. I'm still rocking a 3a XL with lineage (massively resisting the urge to upgrade to a Pixel 9). I'm quite certain they'll do a lineage release for our phones for Android 16, hoping to use my phone for as much longer as possible!
- walthamstow 1y ago
  How's the battery? Have you ever replaced it?
  - smusamashah 1y ago
    I am using second-hand 4a which I bought more than year ago off eBay. On low to medium use, it still manages ~1-1.5 day on average. Battery is solid. My wife has Pixel 4, I like camera result of that one slightly better. 4a is a bit blurry in comparison.
sambf 1y ago
Is the 4a still supported with security updates? What OS are you running? GrapheneOS stopped support so I scored a cheap 8a but I really dislike it. Had to boot my 4a again for some reason the other day and I realized I really missed it, it's so small and lightweight compared to the 8a.
- smusamashah 1y ago
  Last update is from 5 November 2023.
yencabulator 1y ago

AbuAssar 1y ago

I'll take Material Expressive over iOS's liquid glass any day.

tail_exchange 1y ago
I'm on the other camp. I'm so tired of the boring flat design, I'm actually considering switching to an iPhone.
- bitpush 1y ago
  Are you not worried about accessibility issues?
  - tail_exchange 1y ago
    No. Like always, there will be visual accessibility features such as high contrast, reducing screen motion, dark mode, and reduced transparency. I never had to use them, but according to a family member who is blind, Apple is excellent in terms of accessibility.

clearleaf 1y ago

I wonder what method they've employed to make SD cards even more useless this time around.

swah 1y ago

Also a bit sick of the iOS update... Whats the MVP (minimum viable pixel) nowadays? Google lineup is super expensive in my country, probably zero support, so I'm afraid of investing. I tried a (used) 6a, it was lovely (compared to my Samsung) until it wouldn't scroll while charging (a known issue) so I returned it.

nipperkinfeet 1y ago

The release of Apple's new glass design has made Material Expressive appear aesthetically pleasing. Apple has declined so much, it's unfortunate.

visarga 1y ago
Maybe Apple thought they need to make a desperate move to deflect from their lack of AI?
- anticrymactic 1y ago
  Call me old, but I don't think users want AI. Apple summary's turned out barely helpful and that was the big, simple and easy AI application. Instead of a working voice assistant, what uses does AI (LLM) have on a smartphone?
  - TiredOfLife 1y ago
    > Apple summary's turned out barely helpful and that was the big, simple and easy AI application. Instead of a working voice assistant That's the point. Apple is years behind on that stuff
  - thecupisblue 1y ago
    It's just that the implementations are shitty and designed for an "email-calendar-zoom" lifecycle corporate humans, and everyone is trying to "create a new frontier!" while ignoring the actual user behaviour - yes, we sure want to hear an LLM describe Kim K's new instagram post instead of seeing it.
awakeasleep 1y ago
The first developer-only beta release?
thecupisblue 1y ago
Unfortunately, yes. Even tho I find both abhorrent abominations of design. Glass is a pain in itself and "preparing for a future in spatial computing" is such a bullshit line when the spatial computing future is still 5-10 years away at minimum, and will not be achieved with Apple Vision, at least not in the current shape and form. Meanwhile, Material Expressive is trying to force a 2020 graphic design trend onto mobile apps. It literally feels like designers at google just wanted to do something new and modern, so they went with a bland corporate "modern design" aesthetic, that reduces UX in name of UI - even tho they are like oooooh users found this button 30% faster, it would be well fucking expected, since highly-paid designers have just redesigned the thing. Meanwhile, apps will continue to be made in their own style. Apple will release liquid glass support with 26 and we'll see it appear in new apps. At the same time, Google will probably do a partial release of the new material components for developers, where a giant part of components will lack features described by the design spec, a bunch will be missing, and a bunch will be utterly unusable because Google can't create a good DX to save their lives.

atum47 1y ago

Any improvements to battery life? I feel like my pixel 8 pro battery is dying a lot faster now. I would like to trade it in for a pixel 9 pro xl, but it's kinda hard/impossible to do in Brazil. I got a good deal from best buy but you need to have a US issued document to trade your phone in, bummer. Any plans to ever sell it in Brazil?

pradn 1y ago

It's easier to keep doing something incremental than to fundamentally change things. One avenue these phone OS, and any consumer OS, can pursue is making it easy to string together app sub-steps. An app can be "cracked open" into sub-step a) either by developers themselves b) or by a backend process at app submission time. The backend process could look at the screens, and see what the user journeys are - this is within reach for current LLMs. An "sub-step" here is like taking a flights app and turning it into different types of search functions - search by date, location, points etc. So an app becomes a bunch of interfaces. Once you have these "sub-steps" a local LLM can string them together, because it can understand their inputs, outputs, and behaviors. Actually executing the sub-steps would require the OS to execute the app in the background and run the sub-steps for the user. This would be akin to what browser agents do right now So this is a way of semantically extracting the "verbs" in existing apps. With a library of these "sub-steps" in apps, combined with similar ones extracted from the internet - you could chain together the web and native worlds, in the service of the user. It's easier on phone OSs because phone apps are usually already logged in. It's realistic for iOS to just do a bunch of stuff for you in the background. You really can probably get finance info from all your finance apps, for example. I'm not saying this is necessarily the answer - but re-thinking the OS in this sort of what is what would be an actually ambitious thing for Apple or Google to do. All these small tweaks are opiates.

thecupisblue 1y ago
This is already supported by intent system on Android and partially by the new intents in iOS. It is now up to developers to expose this.

eth0up 1y ago

Yay! Less control, more limitations and background shenanigans. Anyone ever stop to notice how skillful google is at putting lipstick on pigs? To watch their artisans in action, simply do: Settings/System/DeveloperOptions/RunningServices and tick Show Cached Processes after absorbing that in your immediate view, which will have included the 23 running processes under Play Services. Yeah yeah. There has to be lots of stuff in such a glorious suite. Of course it's crawling with things completely irrelevant to the user. We all know this. But can it ever go too far? I honestly don't feel more secure since that amazing update that blocks access to directories even through USB. Blocking Ghost Commander is one thing, but USB? I won't make a scathing list of complaints here. Each update tends to beg the task though. Edit: It's really complex, right? Google is honest and forthright. So they'd never lie about absolutely needing Precise Location to use Maps. Clearly it's necessary. While using pure GPS appears for all practical purposes to do everything I need, in truth, not having Scanning activated threatens much destruction and a subconsciously worse navigation experience. I've read the arguments for why the End will come if Scanning access isn't given, but I stopped using Maps, and Scanning too, and things seem fine. Try to figure this one out. And how the F do I get my files out of the Audio Recorder directory? I must Share them, via email. No access unless Shared, over the Internet. If this isn't an upgrade, I'm lost. I'm just going to guess this new version has an embedded uninterruptible LLM that tells the user what they want and how to use the device. Because that's something Google doesn't believe the user is capable of.

hnpolicestate 1y ago
Downvoted because it's true as is typical for HN. Safety!!!! Because the adult user is a child or something.

curtisszmania 1y ago

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sagarpatil 1y ago

The worst part is I’m so deep in Apple ecosystem that it’s impossible to move to Android.

unixhero 1y ago
People say that to themselves.
anticrymactic 1y ago
I'm genuinely so interested what this ecosystem is? Where do you use it? How does it help you? I have asked every apple user around me and they just tell me about photo sync and iCloud.
- wilkinsonsmooth 1y ago
  I worked for Apple Support over the phone for a while and had to deal with people's photos issues. And let me tell you that the way iCloud photo syncing works is basically only to lock people in. It's just convoluted enough that the average user won't have a good idea of where exactly their photos are stored. Especially when they run out of space on their phone (very easy to do when 128gb is still the base storage space). The UI makes it seem like the only option is to buy iCloud storage and once you're paying for storage then it really makes it unclear how you could access your photos on anything other than an Apple device. That alone is enough to lock most users in to the ecosystem. The idea of figuring out how to transfer all your photos to an Android device is too much work for most people.
- sagarpatil 1y ago
  Let need explain. Windows user for 28 years. I decided to try macOS and got hooked (no more WSL). Moved from Android to iPhone because of tight integration with macOS. 1. Universal copy (copy from/to Mac) 2. Automatically fill OTP from phone to mac 3. Passwords app integration means I don’t have to fill 2FA manually (mac or iPhone) 4. I use Apple TV 4K and I can use my iPhone as a remote, use it for color calibration, use it as a dedicated camera for FaceTime on TV 5. I use Apple Watch to receive important calls/ notifications when my phone is not around. When you are using Watch, macOS does not ask you to enter system password for when you are changing system settings, installing/uninstalling apps etc. These are the things at the top of my mind, I’m sure I can come up with much more. Photo sync and iCloud are pretty easy to replace with Google Photos/G drive, so I’m not worried about that part. It’s these small things that add up and make the whole experience better.

edg5000 1y ago

"Samsung DeX has helped maximize productivity on phones, foldables and tablets for years. In Android 16, we worked closely with Samsung to develop desktop windowing, a new way to interact with your apps and content on large-screen devices." <- What does "working closely" mean for a company with infinite SW dev resources? What do they need from Samsung as far as software goes? PS Let me make a guess for the future. Android Desktop mode will improve and people will ditch Windows and instead plug their phone into a USB-C dock that connects it to keyboard, mouse and display. (I'm on Linux myself, but I see people moving to Android from Windows)

nashashmi 1y ago
This is the future that can’t be more ignored. It is like finally bringing call interrupt feature in internet dial up modems but only after everyone migrated to DSL. Windows Lumia was the first device to bring this functionality from an OS developer. Samsung had this for premium hardware. Apple came up with stage manager for iPad but left it out of iPhone. And no one really cares about this feature enough. What is this feature in reality? It is just a projected screen with a certain resolution. And then it has apps that appear and open as resizable windows. Android had a downloadable app called something like Sense that did this but the app developers didn’t make apps with resizable windows at the time. I guess part of the working closely is to cause developers to display apps that can be resized. And resize it for them in the event they refuse.
nikanj 1y ago
My guess for the future is that no app maker dares to put efforts into Android Desktop mode because they worry Google will leave them high and dry, and in two-three releases the desktop mode will be abandoned because it has no app support
rickdeckard 1y ago
> What does "working closely" mean for a company with infinite SW dev resources? What do they need from Samsung as far as software goes? Samsung already learned lessons from that journey, Google did not. Also, the Android strategy is to not compete with Android vendors on OS features, they rather collaborate to make them contribute improvements back to the OS. This strategy makes the project faster, cheaper, reduces fragmentation, removes a competitor (!), and most of all reduces brand-stickiness within the Android ecosystem (--> if Samsung DeX gets merged into Android, Samsung users can switch brands easier).

octo888 1y ago

"Unfortunately, Android has made changes which will make it much harder for us to port to Android 16 and future releases. It will also make adding support for new Pixels much more difficult. We're likely going to need to focus on making GrapheneOS devices sooner than we expected." https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114662145938666044 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114662145938666044

u5wbxrc3 1y ago
I can not love this development project enough its the peak of Android custom ROM. I am curious though as to what they have changed so much that it is going to be more difficult.
- octo888 1y ago
  Oh, they also had the issue that one of the leading devs got forcibly conscripted. Quickly scanning GrapheneOS's posts I couldn't find any detail about the technical challenges. They'll probably post about it in the coming months
  - cenamus 1y ago
    I mean, conscription is per definition forced, isn't it?
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - octo888 1y ago
      Is such nitpicking necessary? It derails the conversation
    - thyristan 1y ago
      Yes and no. In some countries and depending on peace or war times, you are forced into service, but you can choose to do military service or be a conscientious objector and work as a hospital aide.

sudomateo 1y ago

The more I compare Material 3 Expressive to Liquid Glass the more I'm excited to switch back to a Pixel. I'm a fan of the use of color, motions, and different shapes versus transparency, minimal contrast, and little color. I'm on a iPhone 13 Pro Max right now that's still doing well but starting to show battery capacity age. Plus, it's the only non-USB-C device I own so I'd be happy to get rid of it.

jajuuka 1y ago
This WWDC was the nail in the coffin for me. Apple has lost the plot and is back to self indulgent projects. Picked up a Pixel again and glad I don't have to deal with liquid glass in the future.
- sudomateo 1y ago
  I feel similarly. This iPhone is the only Apple device I own outside of a shared Apple TV. I'm not in the Apple ecosystem so moving back to Pixel for me would be easy. I'm not impressed with Apple as of late.
ChocolateGod 1y ago
I'd move to a pixel if it was the same hardware value as the corresponding Samsung or OnePlus, they always just seem to be a year or two behind.
- sudomateo 1y ago
  I'm going to wait for the Pixel 10 to see what specs it has. I believe you're right though it's a bit behind on other manufacturers in terms of hardware. It would still be a jump for me coming from an iPhone 13.

andrelaszlo 1y ago

> Clearer, simpler calling with hearing devices This is really important for me. Currently, hearing aids will turn to full duplex during calls, and be used as both input and output. - Audio quality will be much worse, since the bandwidth is split between the two channels. This is obviously bad if you're already struggling to hear. - Listening to music, for example, the volume controls on the hearing aids simultaneously turn surrounding sounds down and the music up, or vice versa. In "phone-call" mode, however, the phone hijacks the volume control so if you're struggling to hear on a call in a noisy environment there's no way to increase the volume without simultaneously amplifying the surrounding noise to painfully loud levels. - As mentioned in the article, the microphones are designed to make me hear other people but not myself, making other people complain about my sound a lot. The best I can do is to say "sorry - either you'll hear me like this or I won't hear you at all" This was designed for people using BT headsets of course, but hearing aids are not headsets. On Linux I can just pick which microphone I want to use and which mode to use for Bluetooth. It's worked flawlessly for the last decade. To me, that's being "user friendly", good UX, or whatever you want to call it. On Windows, you can go deep into some ancient, almost hidden, settings and disable the microphone on the BT device. On macOS, you can do the same using the old Audio MIDI Setup tool. It will periodically reset itself of course, like anything related to a11y on macOS. Not sure about iOS, would be interesting to know.

skybrian 1y ago
It seems LE Audio is required for this feature and there aren’t many hearing aids that support it. Maybe I’ll check again in a year.

wilkinsonsmooth 1y ago

With the discussion specifically the last few days of UI themes on iOS and Android, I haven't really seen any one point out the biggest difference between the two. On Android you can change basically everything you want. You don't like the way the new theme makes your apps looks? Then find something you do like instead. You can change all your app icons, the colours of all your buttons, you can change out your home app altogether. There are certain things you are stuck with depending on your device manufacturer and their own brew of Android, but you can customize the device way more than any Apple device. That's one of the things that has kept me away from Apple devices, is that you can't change basic things about how they look or operate. It's all on Apple's terms. I also dislike how they add the most basic things, like changing the background on your chats, and act like they just invented it.

wilkinsonsmooth 1y ago
One thing about the Apple Liquid Glass announcement from the other day is neither here nor there is how it was worded. They kept referring to it as a 'new material' and I thought at first it was a joke or something because to me it looked like a UI update. I thought it was all tongue-in-cheek maybe but they just kept up the idea that it was a real physical material for a lot of the post about it.

deleted 1y ago

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cAtte_ 1y ago

> With Android 16, you can now activate Advanced Protection, Google’s strongest mobile device protection. It enables an array of robust device security features that protect you from online attacks, harmful apps, unsafe websites, scam calls and more. blah blah let me guess: Advanced Protection will continue to gain features that restrict the freedom of users in the name of security and some time from now it will be mandatorily enabled for everyone. classic google!

jajuuka 1y ago
To me it seems like Google trying to mirror the iOS Advanced Data Protection and lockdown mode. Just ways to put security front and center to counter Apple's "we're the privacy company" schtick.

ncr100 1y ago

Installed (Pixel Fold 1). Nothing is visibly different. * Saw an unexpected notification post-upgrade that, when I clicked it, took me to the wrong place. It was about "Body Sensor" permission for "Fit" which I assumed meant Google Fit needed additional info about my private health info. A crappy workflow for me, since the warning was real, I became alarmed .. hoping that "Fit" really was simply Google Fit, and ended up in Google Play Services' app information settings sheet. * Took me to a 'welcome to new pixel' which has overgrown its UX with OS 16. It had 3 'new' features to tell me about - something about 'VIP' which seemed like over-optimization of a workflow. Some other stuff which was not relevant to me (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44245460 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44245460). It also had an enormous list of differently colored (highlighted, not-highlighted) icons which led me to info about features, UGH .. in "Wizard" format (next, next, next) so I could not see an overview, nor know which I had previously viewed during the prior 15 OS iterations...so I abandoned that mini "Welcome" app. -- Also, the mini videos in the "Welcome" app are inscrutable. My Pixel Fold 1 main screen is already small, and then the video illustrating the features is not zoomable. Clicking it merely pauses it. The videos show a hypothetical Pixel phone and a hypothetical human finger-tip dragging its way across the screen. Then the video wants me to read some of this 3x-too-small text, because THAT is the POINT of the video I had the most annoyance at .. the text content was somehow the feature. Yes I should have put my glasses on (+1.2 prescription - slight far-sighted), though it seems like I should be able to read the text-in-video from 2' away...it's literally the Welcome app, for ALL users, not some extra-niche app. Human Factors People gave zero shits about that IMO.

Nerd_Nest 1y ago

Cool to see how far NotebookLM has come. For anyone interested, I came across this breakdown on the Android app launch and how it works with AI: https://www.squaredtech.co/google-launches-notebooklm-android-app-with-ai https://www.squaredtech.co/google-launches-notebooklm-androi...

h4kunamata 1y ago

Those tools/features are more ways to collect data easily. I have a Pixel 7 Pro running GrapheneOS , I am never going back to an AndroidOS, period. The level of privacy and control GOS provides is like no other, and the security update is always ahead of Google. GOS in fact has found and reported vulnerabilities which we get released to our phone faster than Google. I am too biased to say anything, I went De-Google years ago, I am using web version instead of apps, if only people knew how much crappy is running in their phone. However, I still access YouTube coz TV sucks and there is no better service, and YouTube Music coz any other service sucks with poor content. Mobiles releases from some time now have been more of the same, it is even worse on Apple side lmao, but now things are getting worse with AI everywhere. AI IMHO means more data being collected, more features and services that are cloud based instead of locally, meaning, soon or later since everything is running on the cloud, you must pay a subscription. Remember, when it comes to big tech nothing is free, you either pay for a subscription or your personal data is the payment.

charlie-83 1y ago
How did you deal with banking apps? That's the main thing that stops me moving to Graphene since I have a lot of accounts that either only have an app or only allow you to do certain things through the app.
- onionjake 1y ago
  I switched banks until one worked. Others I access on the web.
  - charlie-83 1y ago
    Yeah, I don't know how if that would work for me. I have a lot of banking/finance related accounts which I carefully choose for best interest rates etc. Restricting what companies I can use like this would probably end up effectively costing me quite a lot of money.

leonardo41 1y ago

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