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Apple has locked me in the same cage Microsoft's built for Windows 10 users

241 points by beardyw 2y ago

commandersaki 2y ago
What is a computer?
fsflover 2y ago
> Will we have just two mobile OSes? We already have an alternative. Sent from my Librem 5 running GNU/Linux.
- ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
  > Sent from my Librem 5 running GNU/Linux. Or is that Systemd/Linux?
- officeplant 2y ago
  Unfortunately my Pinephone is rather dusty at this point.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    The difference between them is significant, I have both. Also try SXMo DE.
- WillAdams 2y ago
  This was one of the reasons I bought into the recent Raspberry Pi 5 tablet the Pilet on Kickstarter --- I'm hoping it, or a Raspberry Pi connected to a Wacom One or Wacom Movink 13 will work as a general-purpose device.
- aucisson_masque 2y ago
  You got to be kidding. Linux is great for developer, that's all. Everyone else is confused about it.
BoredPositron 2y ago
Yet, another I've bought a tablet but should have bought a laptop to replace my old laptop "article". It's not ready, why apple does it like this we don't know... but pretending that we don't know it despite talking about it for 10 or more years is disingenuous and fails the debate at hand.
- fsflover 2y ago
  > It's not ready, why apple does it like this we don't know What is not ready? A tablet today can surely run a full OS without restrictions [0]. Apple doesn't want it, and it's worth talking about it. [0] https://puri.sm/products/librem-11/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-11/
  - BoredPositron 2y ago
    That’s not really the discussion. We know that iPadOS is shit. On windows and Linux there are form factors that fit the users use case perfectly but they don’t want these products. Instead of adapting to those system they decide to rant about apple not doing what they want… yet we only see these posts from apple users that talk like there is no alternative.
    - Closi 2y ago
      Windows OS is bad for a tablet compared to iPadOS. iPadOS is bad as a laptop compared to Windows. Nobody yet has been able to fully square the two different paradigms.
      - mixmastamyk 2y ago
        I recommend the starlite if you don’t depend primarily on battery power. Personally won’t be going back to Apple’s golden handcuffs, and would never consider the user-hostile MS.
        Closi 2y ago
alp1n3_eth 2y ago
I think there's a difference between Microsoft refusing to support completely operational hardware for their new OS, and Apple not adding extra features / support into a pre-existing product just because the underlying tech is now more powerful. It sounds weird, but going OS #1 -> OS #2, you don't expect your hardware to impact it from a computer point of view. But going from iPad #1 -> iPad #2, why would it all of a sudden have a completely different OS and support when iPad #1 is even still receiving updates? We've reached the age where you need 16GB ram to even keep some tabs open on Mac + Windows, and in terms of versatile computing and gaming I think cloud-based Linux really is the answer. Once it comes time for my next gaming computer upgrade, I'm pretty confident with just using a game streaming platform vs. paying $500 for a new graphics card + anything else (since my current MB doesn't support Windows 11...). Same goes for coding, just connect the IDE to your dedicated cloud box and away you go, all the power and scale you could ever need from $10/mo and up.
- johnisgood 2y ago
  "cloud-based ... is the answer", please, I hope not.
- gerdesj 2y ago
  In my attic is a Dell PowerEdge T320 - it used to run VMware. That got as far as ESXi 6.5 and then it went out of support completely by VMware. Last year I migrated all my VMs to Proxmox. I have two RAID volumes on it, so I moved the lot to the second volume, wiped the first one and installed Proxmox on it. I migrated the VMs over to QEMMU and binned the second volume (save power!) The real point of this diatribe is that my attic server is fully supported once more by the OS vendor(s). They give a shit about me - Debian and Proxmox. Perhaps you might contrast that with your discussion about Microsoft and Apple's approaches to hardware and systems support.
- gessha 2y ago
  Why would you trust everything on somebody else’s computer?!
axpvms 2y ago
>Will we still have just three operating systems to choose from - of which only two are really suitable for a worker's desktop? That's going to go down poorly with the Linux enthusiasts
- archontes 2y ago
  I'm not even a Linux "enthusiast". I simply find Windows to be a terrible product and Linux to be a better product. I simply use the least terrible option.
- dangus 2y ago
  Heck, that's going to go down poorly with those who will correctly point out that not only are there a gazillion Linux desktop environments which equates to a lot more than 3 "operating system" choices ("Linux" is just the kernel and a set of included/bundled/related technologies) but that there are also other systems you can daily drive like FreeBSD that aren't even Linux.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  As former Linux enthusiast, I am alright with it, I rather game, watch hardware accelerated videos, got access to the tools I need, and I need to reach out for GNU/Linux, can always start a VM.
- linguae 2y ago
  Unfortunately many people rely on proprietary software packages that don't run on Linux, such as Microsoft Office, the Adobe Creative Suite, and other desktop software tools that serve various niches like CAD, music, video production, desktop publishing, etc. There are often FOSS alternatives that run on Linux, but sometimes these alternatives have shortcomings that hinder adoption, such as lacking necessary features, having imperfect file format compatibility with proprietary file formats, having a less intuitive UI, etc. With that said, the desktop Linux ecosystem has come a long way over the past 20 years that I've been following it, and I think desktop Linux serves the needs of people who are not reliant on the Windows and Mac ecosystems.
  - 2y ago
rs186 2y ago
That's why I am still using iPad Pro from 2018. There is nothing in their new iPads that is interesting to me. I don't think I'll upgrade unless any of the following happens: (1) the iPad dies (2) it stops getting any updates and cannot install any apps (3) it can rust Python/Rust/Go/vscode natively at raw performance, without all those stupid, unnecessary sorcery just to make things run at a fraction of real hardware power. Voting with my wallet.
nkotov 2y ago
I have two iPads Pros. I still can't figure out where I can use them. I realize that they are overpowered entertainment devices for me now.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
  I see visual artists and musicians having some decent use cases for them. Everyone I know who has an iPad that isn’t one of these professions is usually using it as an expensive portable streaming device
  - widforss 2y ago
    I think pastors and politicians have quite some use of them as well.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      Or anybody that stands a lot without a desk handy, that doesn't want to use https://a.co/d/aqI3SvI https://a.co/d/aqI3SvI and try type into a laptop.
  - pessimizer 2y ago
    [dead]
- _mlbt 2y ago
  I use mine all the time for taking notes, keeping up with my calendar, and just for staying organized in general. The Apple Pencil is so smooth and natural.
- anon7000 2y ago
  They are solid for audio production too, with a lot of fairly powerful DAWs. (Like AUM or Loopy Pro.) you can even connect MIDI instruments from other apps into the DAW and then play them with a connected midi controller, add USB audio interfaces for multitrack recording and live performances, etc. Or it can be a glorified PDF reader for sheet music (with a nice pencil to boot)… and it’s also great for drawing. They’re very powerful devices. Sure, iOS is limited, with poor multitasking workflows. But you can still write very powerful apps for iOS.
jmull 2y ago
I guess this kind of article always gets attention, but they always seem so stupid to me. A thing exists that I don't want. I could: (1) ignore the thing; or (2) complain that the thing isn't something I want (1) seems so obviously the right thing to do. This goes double when the thing you do want does, in fact, exist. But, no, the internet opts for (2). I guess complaining just feels good, even when it's about something that has zero actual effect on you (or on anyone, even).
- dangus 2y ago
  The author literally just bought the wrong device for their needs. Probably 95% of people who own computers do not need root access and should not have it, possibly ever. The iPad is a great device for all the people who need what it offers. It's an amazing graphical tablet, it's a cheap way to watch movies and play games, and it's an amazing system to use while standing without a desk (e.g., for retail and outdoor situations). All of these use cases have nothing to do with gaining root access. Heck, I don't even think most of my development tasks on a real desktop computer involve elevating into root privileges. I'd sure like the ability to but if it was taken away from me I'm not sure it would affect me all that much. "I don't consider any system without root access to be a real computer. So anyway, I decided to buy a Roku streaming box as my main computer and it sucks! What's wrong with the world today!?"
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Some folks seem to be in the fashion that everything with a CPU can get a monitor and a keyboard attached to it, regardless of the original design purpose.
    - Apocryphon 2y ago
      Why not? https://www.youtube.com/@BringusStudios https://www.youtube.com/@BringusStudios
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        Personally I rather buy hardware fit for purpose.
nottorp 2y ago
Yes? The iPad is a "content consumption" device. With the exception of a few graphics workflows, you're better off with a laptop/desktop.
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  Add a Bluetooth keyboard, & then the two being separate products becomes a farce. I love the new MacBook Air's looks, but I can't help but constantly imagine how much better it would be as a detachable, or as a 2-in-1 convertible. The thing is, the laptop is just a bad format period. Ideally you don't want to be looking just above where you type: good ergonomics requires distance between those two. An elevated tablet with a Bluetooth keyboard is a far far better option. But Apple has these market segments that prevent actual good from being possible.
  - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
    > The thing is, the laptop is just a bad format period. Ideally you don't want to be looking just above where you type: good ergonomics requires distance between those two. An elevated tablet with a Bluetooth keyboard is a far far better option. I bring a laptop to the office, put it on a stand, plug two external screens and a USB-C hub with a keyboard and mouse. But I can also use it on a train, at an airport, on a ferry without all that extra gear. In the latter configuration the distance from where I type to where I look is bigger than on your default iPad. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I do also like my 64GB RAM, 1TB drive, and 12 cores. The laptop is a perfect form for me. I'm sorry it doesn't work for you. The only thing for me "ideally" would be to be able to plug two more screens in (so... it's time to upgrade to an m4 max...)
    - jauntywundrkind 2y ago
      I also bring a (Linux running x86) tablet with me everywhere. Its fantastically light and I can plug it in to two displays. It has a very lightweight keyboard folio. More typically, i leave that at home & bring a small light clamp-mount arm that lets me easily mount it to whatever is nearby, tables or desks chairs or whatever. And use the very nice ThinkPad TrackPoint Bluetooth keyboard. I have strictly more flexibility. And given that Mac has the same chips in both iPad and MacBook Air and Pro, it feels again like the distinction here is mostly arbitrary segmentation, not real. With ultra high end Asus Flow Z13 tablets rocking Strix Halo APUs, there's also proof that tablets can be incredibly power dense, if they want to be. The laptop is a constrained design. That constraint is not a feature. You can do the same thing without that constraint. Just not on Apple.
fastaguy88 2y ago
I am very puzzled. Apple has locked you in a cage because you bought an iPad to replace a MacBook? What is the cage, and why weren’t you the jailer?
- frosting1337 2y ago
  I mean the author explains his thoughts in the article, you should read it again.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    The author's thoughts don't make sense, though. He's expecting a locked-down tablet appliance to suit the same needs and use cases as a laptop running a general-purpose OS. Or at best, he's not expecting that, but is at least complaining about it, which feels a little pointless. He can get what he wants by buying a new Mac, as he suggests. It's not like what he wants doesn't exist. He's just complaining that some other random product doesn't do what he wants, even though it's not designed to. Pointless.
    - drdaeman 2y ago
      My understanding is that the post is essentially a complaint about deceptive marketing. iPads are marketed as capable of "doing all the things you love", how it's "so versatile it's up to any task" and so on - leading to perception that it's like a computer, except in a different form factor. While, in reality, of course it's not. Personally, I never found any subjectively meaningful use case for iPads except for portable media consumption (aka watching movies on the Porcelain Throne, and even then it's not a great option as it lacks multi-user support). Every time Apple announces a new one, I have this feeling of cognitive dissonance between what the device actually is and how it's marketed. (I'm sure there are lots of good use cases for iPad - just nothing I personally need or care about. Aka "I'm not in the target market")
      - matwood 2y ago
        Apple is marketing to everyone and not just the HN crowd. For many people their phone is their only computing device and for them an iPad is likely a big upgrade. When I have to proof photos or do a bunch of office type work, an iPad has become my goto device. When I'm programming, not so much. But I don't think that's a big secret to this crowd.
protocolture 2y ago
iPad is a product segment, its not really comparable with legions of windows 10 machines not getting windows 11, which is vastly the same operating system as 10 with TPM2 and secure boot becoming hard requirements. Yeah it sucks apple doesnt give you root access to your tablet. And it does suck that microsoft wont let us upgrade our PC's. But they are different unique variations on sucking for largely different reasons.
znpy 2y ago
I don’t know if the author realised they proved Apple’s point: they have paid money for an ipad but they will pay more money for an m4 macbook air anyway.
lenkite 2y ago
Author has not tried WSL - its pretty amazing on windows and is the designated cage breaker for Windows. I run nearly everything inside WSL and all apps runs faster! Thanks to Windows security not scanning files inside WSL, the laptop fan doesn't start spinning up when doing I/O intensive work. Can actually rest the laptop on my lap without wincing.
- TrisMcC 2y ago
  WSL is fine for some purposes. It just never got better. I just wiped my 4-year install on my work thinkpad for direct Linux after wrestling with WSL2 which broke in numerous ways in every update: - WSLg is a pile of crap, and it feels like no development was done on it after it was initially released. It is so easy to crash the display server. It still does not resume from sleep reliably. Anything that quickly opens windows or does any sort of automation (like selenium/cypress tests) are prone to breakage. - Networking works until it doesn't. Sometimes updates break DNS. Sometimes the bridged networking just fails. The second problem here is why I finally threw in the towel. I could not get networking working reliably in the VM after a routine Windows update. Everything feels completely hacked together.
  - lenkite 2y ago
    Huh, I haven't experienced those problems on my thinkpad - sleep/resume seems to work without issues. But admittedly I am just doing simple developer work, nothing fancy.
NoPicklez 2y ago
I don't understand these articles, they've stumbled upon what many of us have known which is that the iPad just doesn't feel the same as a Macbook laptop. The iPad just doesn't suit what they need, some people it does suit them better, others not. They could've just gone back to the Macbook and left the iPad for others, but felt the need for an article. I was telling people back in 2012 that whilst the iPad is a shiny new thing, it doesn't fit the bill like a laptop and subsequently our staff wanted both laptops and iPads once they realised that. There's a lot of loose connections and frustrations in this article whereby the Surface Pro not being able to upgrade to Windows 11 being another source of issues, whilst this also impacts Desktop users it still wouldn't fix the keyboard and trackpad issues. If you like the Macbook and its functionality, keep buying a damn Macbook then. Apple didn't lock you into anything, you tried to use a different Apple product in the same way you use your Macbook and found out they're not designed to work that way.
- ForHackernews 2y ago
  >they're not designed to work that way. It would be more accurate to say that they are designed not to work that way. In modern times, every limited-purpose internet-connected gadget is actually a general-purpose computer that has been deliberately crippled. The reason you can't run arbitrary software on "your" iPad is because they have locked it down so Apple owns the hardware, not you.
  - amelius 2y ago
    Yes, the iPad is a vending machine, owned and run by Apple, but paid for by you, the customer.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      I have the option of paying for every subscription service I use on my iPad without paying Apple a dime - ChatGPT, Google drive, Office 365, every streaming service, Kindle books etc
      - 2y ago
booleandilemma 2y ago
iPads have always been this way, right? They're an appliance, and only a computer in the technical sense. Did the author just learn how to program and he wants a terminal now?
- walterbell 2y ago
  > Did the author just learn to program He is the co-inventor of VRML (1994), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Pesce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Pesce. Register bio says: Mark has worked in the technology industry since the late 1980s, and has contributed to all manner of products, from dial-up modems to 3D graphics including co-inventing VRML.
jaimex2 2y ago
I'm 10 years in now in not running either Windows or Mac and reading these articles is so uncanny.
- WorldPeas 2y ago
  As a person who just entered the latter ecosystem as a matter of peer compatibility, after 10 years of Linux, it's miserable and I wish I could go back to what you have. Even with how blighted X86 feels, it feels even worse to have a computer that couldn't do what you wanted to and has the audacity to complain at you that it knows better and you shouldn't be able to alter certain parts of it
  - matteotom 2y ago
    I switched my personal laptop to a M1 Macbook Pro (from a Thinkpad running Linux, also after almost 10 years) in 2020, mostly because I had switched to an iPhone a few months prior and was using a Macbook for work. It was certainly convenient most of the time - most features I wanted worked out of the box, and most dev tools could be managed by homebrew (at least well enough). But annoyances slowly stacked up over time. Things like so much software being closed source (and often paid), or updates taking too long, or not being able to debug why something didn't work how I expected (eg, sometimes when plugging into my dock w/ monitors, it would decide to put all the windows on different screens than when I unplugged). I finally broke down last year and bought a new Thinkpad and immediately installed Gentoo. While I've spent a lot more time configuring everything, at least it works exactly as I expect and I can easily debug when something goes wrong.
    - WorldPeas 2y ago
      glad to see it's not just me in this exact predicament. I'm thinking I'll switch to a device next that also supports cell modems because apple gave me a taste for it while not granting the greatest stability
      - matteotom 2y ago
ggm 2y ago
Google Pixels are getting something akin to vm's and wsl. More than dex, but less than full visibility to all of the Android fs. Termux is a halfway house. It's said this will be better. Maybe iPad OS will do this too in the future? It feels like an air with a detachable keyboard is close.
- walterbell 2y ago
  > Maybe iPad OS will do this too in the future? It did in the past, but OS support was removed. Hopefully it will return.
mullingitover 2y ago
"My decade-old and very well-travelled Toyota Land Cruiser finally died, and I hoped my new-ish ebike could replace it." How that article sounds. I don't care how fancy they make them, iPads are just unserious computing devices for real work.
- alabastervlog 2y ago
  I see them more than laptops among actual people out in the world doing real work. Phones, too. [edit] non-office-workers, I mean.
  - DidYaWipe 2y ago
    What is this "real work?"
    - sbuk 2y ago
      Not the Orange Site bubble...
    - h2zizzle 2y ago
      Construction, for one.
- jjtheblunt 2y ago
  If you're an artist who draws, I think they're serious computing devices.
  - aleph_minus_one 2y ago
    > If you're an artist who draws, I think they're serious computing devices. An artist who draws might consider iPads to be serious drawing devices.
    - musicale 2y ago
      That's high praise since it's basically what Apple was going for with the iPad, getting out of your way to let you focus on the task at hand.
travisgriggs 2y ago
/s My life would clearly be better if all of my non-programmer non-technical family members and friends, young and old had a terminal and unix user levels exposed to them…
WorldPeas 2y ago
The reasons this article cites are likely why so many of my peers, myself included I have switched to "home servers" to gain any sort of freedom. It's sad that it had to come to this, but for any device that's meant to fit into pocket or move around it's simply not efficient for our kind of consumer to have any control over the design process
j45 2y ago
Apple experimented with the iPad head to head with was also experimenting with the 12” MacBook retina which was only 12 lb. If you want something iPad size with a first class keyboard and mouse experience there might not be a better remote terminal than the 12” MacBook (sans touch screen) compared to the iPad
bruce511 2y ago
>> Will we still have just three operating systems to choose from - of which only two are really suitable for a worker's desktop? Such an intriguing statement. Firstly there are at least 5 major operating systems in play (windows, MacOS, Linux, iOS and Android. ) Plus a lot of "minor" ones (BSD etc), and any number of tiny ones. But assuming he meant mainstream desktop machines, let's focus on Windows, Mac and Linux. I can only assume the "not suitable for workers desktop " means Linux. Now lots of techies use Linux for desktop, and there are lots who say it could be used as a general desktop, but it hasn't gained much traction there. Linux of course reigns on the server, with Windows Server also strong. Indeed you see this "choice of 2" (with sometimes a distant 3rd) in pretty much all hardware spaces. iOS and Android. Windows and Mac. Windows and Linux. PS5 and Xbox. Notice how it starts first with the function - what the machine is designed to do. Then the mainstream coaleses around 2 players. But often with other minor alternatives. This approach works well. We don't need 5 desktop OSs to choose from. Or 5 servers. Or 5 tablets.
- walterbell 2y ago
  > Or 5 tablets. Two would be nice. Pixel (7) Tablet with GrapheneOS was a good start, but V2 was cancelled. Lenovo Yoga x86 is higher price tier.
everyone 2y ago
This is pathetic, just get literally any laptop u want.. have one made up if u want, and put linux on it. apple-heads have some sort of bizarre stockholm syndrome thing going on. The mental gymnastics they do are insane. I guess that's what comes from decades of buying the same components as everyone else, but in a shiny box with a shit OS and a 4X markup.
throwaway314155 2y ago
What a fresh and original take! /s
h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 2y ago
Why did the author buy Microsoft and Apple devices and expect them to deliver their customization needs? If I would attempt something like this today, I'd probably buy a used Microsoft Surface tablet from ebay and install Archlinux(ARM) on it, with Plasma Mobile and KDE. In the worst case I log out and log in again after I unplugged the device from its peripherals. And in second worst case I just use its mobile attachable keyboard with it. I guess that was the dream behind the purchases of pinephones and pinetab devices back then, which were too underpowered in terms of CPU and GPU for it.
real0mar 2y ago
Apple's marketing team must be so good if they can convince HN users that an iPad is a suitable replacement for a "real" computer. No one who knows what a terminal or root access even means should be fooled by this.
SoleilAbsolu 2y ago
I admin 150 Windows machines, have set up Linux servers, TBH I am not religious about OS, though Android is my least favorite. I recently got an iPad Air and a MacBook Air 15 to replace older devices (2018 & 2012). The MacBook is lighter and has better battery life than the iPad with Magic Keyboard, wasn't expecting that! My biggest frustration with iOS is how it abstracts & hides away file system access. Especially for producing music across multiple apps I find it much easier on a Mac, same for any programming. Not to mention the dongle-mania for connecting peripherals! An iPad's just an overgrown phone at heart. And...IME iOS doesn't have the same true realtime low latency performance as OSX. I have been able to flog Mac laptops, iMacs & desktops right up to the edge for audio/video production (Logic, iMovie, FinalCut, Ableton Live) and they'll absolutely keep up (within limits like reasonable audio buffer latency settings for complex projects). While iOS can definitely have audible glitches, especially with multiple apps open. But I take the iPad out of the house much more. I think Apple could add touchscreens to laptops without destroying iPad sales, but I don't want them to iOS-ify OSX completely.
yokoprime 2y ago
I think there was a thread on Reddit recently, where the thread starter had been forced to use his iPad for work a whole day. The user concluded (paraphrasing) "its like replacing a truck with a small sedan. Sure you can still haul many of the same things, but it will require a lot more work and trips back and forth"
Kwpolska 2y ago
I don't understand how the author managed to connect iPads running a toy operating system with Microsoft's serious business operating system not being supported on older hardware.
- nehal3m 2y ago
  The connection is these vendors are artificially restricting users from running the software they want on their own hardware.
bilekas 2y ago
“Hey why doesn’t this tablet designed for “pro” web browsing replace my workstation?” I’ve actually seen this sentiment so much from apple “pro” users. They seem to think that because the os feel is similar that it should just work the same. It’s the equivalent of expecting a gaming laptop to perform as well as a PC.
- Synaesthesia 2y ago
  M2 has so much power, it's got more CPU power than Mac's which still do their job perfectly well, like my sister's old MacBook Pro, which she uses for design work.
relistan 2y ago
I’m personally not interested in a mishmash laptop-tablet thing. You end up with a thing that is either good at one and not the other or a thing that is bad at both.
staticelf 2y ago
Stop. Buying. Their. Closed. Tech. And you will be free.
p0w3n3d 2y ago
I dub the distinction between a tablet and a laptop fake. Tbh they are running the same hardware. I started with Android and first things I did on my phones was to install terminal and ssh. Later it became impossible, because of the changes that were being imposed by Google ("for the sake of my safety"). What I valued Android over IOS was to have access to my files (like DVD-dumped futurama) that I could watch on them (I did it before it was trendy, before netflix came into phones, moreover before the data transfer got so cheap I could watch a whole movie and not pay through my nose). On IOS it was possible though with VLC - I had to upload there my movies using HTTP server (yes - server had to be on a computer). And then it began! You cannot listen to free spotify on your tablet the same way you got it on your laptop - you have to install an app and it will impose on you different limitations. HEY! This is the same thing as my laptop! HOW CAN YOU TELL!??? AH MY BROWSER WEASELED ME OUT?
- p0w3n3d 2y ago
  so apparently I've witnessed a new device category being born. Not a mobile, not a laptop. Which has neither the rights and obligations of real computer nor of the mobile phone. It is something new (A TABLET) and will not let me handle my photos on it as I could handle them on my phone, it wouldn't let me browse pages as if this was laptop (even though I put it in the orientation the same as my laptop had) etc. etc. It caused me a lot of pain, as at that time me working at the bank, I had some limitations on the network, and I wanted to buy something on my iPAD, but the pages would detect me being "A TABLET = MOBILE DEVICE" and showing me different, broken versions of pages I wanted to navigate.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Don't most browsers have a "Desktop site" option you can turn on to tell websites you want the desktop version? It seems weird to blame your device for websites' bad decisions, especially when your device goes out of its way to allow you to force websites to correct their mistake.
    - Robotbeat 2y ago
sp_c 2y ago
"Do not buy something for a promise of what it 'could' do, but what it can currently do." I forget who said this, but you just need to follow this rule and you won't have this problem anymore.
skc 2y ago
Remember Jobs coining the phrase "Post PC era". Good times. There was a period of about two, maybe three years where you saw nothing but tablets outdoors. Now it's very rare for me to see someone tapping away at an iPad out in the wild, all I see are laptops.
- basisword 2y ago
  I know a lot of people who don't own laptops/desktops at all. None in their household. They simply use their phone for everything and a few have tablets, especially the people with kids. If you go to a holiday resort and go for dinner you'll find that 90% of the kids in that place have a tablet with them. If you take "PC" as meaning "Personal Computer" I think Jobs was right. People still need a 'real' computer for work but personal computing for the majority of people is simply content consumption, ordering stuff on the web, and communicating with people and they can do all that easily on a phone or tablet.
basisword 2y ago
This was all over the place. The article itself seemingly bares no relation to the headline. Replacing your laptop with a tablet and then complaining that the tablet cannot do the same things as the laptop was a slightly interesting take in 2010. The iPad has now been around for 15 years. A tech journalist being surprised it doesn't have a terminal with root access at this point is baffling.
- TiredOfLife 2y ago
  The register and ars technica have essentially the same relation to truth as the onion.
- walterbell 2y ago
  Google Pixel tablet now has a Debian Linux terminal VM that is isolated from the host Android OS. Apple iPad had VM capability three years ago, but removed it. They could restore that functionality in 2025 to compete with Pixel tablet, which has weaker hardware.
  - Robotbeat 2y ago
    Wait, they HAD VM capability but removed it?? That’s somehow so much worse…
  - rafram 2y ago
    > Apple iPad had VM capability three years ago, but removed it. It definitely did not.
    - easton 2y ago
      It did, kinda, they shipped Hypervisor.framework in some builds of iPadOS 15 and 16: https://x.com/utmapp/status/1708907045314035986 https://x.com/utmapp/status/1708907045314035986 But you needed a private entitlement for it to work that no app (save UTM after a jailbreak) had, so the pet theory at the time was internal Apple engineers were running around with Linux on their iPads.
  - deleted 2y ago
DaveMcMartin 2y ago
The iPad is in a kind of gray landscape because it is not phone and it is not a Mac but they are treated special like the iPhone so they can put any greed-based limitations they want instead of it becaming a general computer.
neogodless 2y ago
While I think everyone has more than covered the contents of the article, the title is rather ridiculous in itself. (Note original title in source: "Hardware locks us in Apple's and Microsoft's monopoly cages") > Microsoft won't let users upgrade their older boxen to Windows 11. OK but this does not put you in a cage with your older devices. Windows 10 machines are still general computing devices (or personal computer / PC). Eventually, the blocked upgrades will mean the consumer has to choose between installing Linux or buying a new PC. That's a very different choice from what you have as an iPad owner (if it's your only device.) And as others have pointed out, buying that device was a choice. Arguably misinformed if you thought it was a PC when it is, in fact, a closed-source and locked down tablet. You mention a Surface Go - so OK you know what a "tablet" that is designed to be a convertible between laptop and tablet looks like and how it works. But just because Microsoft did that, and Apple kind of advertises the iPad that way, doesn't meant Apple and Microsoft put you in the same cage. In fact, they are quite the opposite! To address that original "monopoly" title - in fact again I think the opposite is happening. Microsoft "forcing" you to purchase something new because you can't "upgrade" to Windows 11. Well actually it drives some people to Linux or Apple. And it's software that is responsible for the issue, not hardware. No wonder you changed the title, but it still doesn't work with your article.
dade_ 2y ago
Back in the 90s John C Dvorak wrote an article calling a Mac a Cuisinart. It was a criticism of Apple that they had created an appliance, not a general purpose computer. Granted the guy hated Macs at the time, but I think it’s a reasonable way to describe an iPad.
averageRoyalty 2y ago
> What we see today is the outcome of almost two decades of design choices that have only recently started to accommodate keyboards and external pointing devices. ?? I've been using an iPad with folio keyboard for close to a decade and first party apps have always had fantastic support. Even third party is usually pretty good. I don't think the author here has any idea what they're talking about.

241 points by beardyw 2y ago

commandersaki 2y ago

What is a computer?

fsflover 2y ago

> Will we have just two mobile OSes? We already have an alternative. Sent from my Librem 5 running GNU/Linux.

ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
> Sent from my Librem 5 running GNU/Linux. Or is that Systemd/Linux?
officeplant 2y ago
Unfortunately my Pinephone is rather dusty at this point.
- fsflover 2y ago
  The difference between them is significant, I have both. Also try SXMo DE.
WillAdams 2y ago
This was one of the reasons I bought into the recent Raspberry Pi 5 tablet the Pilet on Kickstarter --- I'm hoping it, or a Raspberry Pi connected to a Wacom One or Wacom Movink 13 will work as a general-purpose device.
aucisson_masque 2y ago
You got to be kidding. Linux is great for developer, that's all. Everyone else is confused about it.

BoredPositron 2y ago

Yet, another I've bought a tablet but should have bought a laptop to replace my old laptop "article". It's not ready, why apple does it like this we don't know... but pretending that we don't know it despite talking about it for 10 or more years is disingenuous and fails the debate at hand.

fsflover 2y ago
> It's not ready, why apple does it like this we don't know What is not ready? A tablet today can surely run a full OS without restrictions [0]. Apple doesn't want it, and it's worth talking about it. [0] https://puri.sm/products/librem-11/ https://puri.sm/products/librem-11/
- BoredPositron 2y ago
  That’s not really the discussion. We know that iPadOS is shit. On windows and Linux there are form factors that fit the users use case perfectly but they don’t want these products. Instead of adapting to those system they decide to rant about apple not doing what they want… yet we only see these posts from apple users that talk like there is no alternative.
  - Closi 2y ago
    Windows OS is bad for a tablet compared to iPadOS. iPadOS is bad as a laptop compared to Windows. Nobody yet has been able to fully square the two different paradigms.
    - mixmastamyk 2y ago
      I recommend the starlite if you don’t depend primarily on battery power. Personally won’t be going back to Apple’s golden handcuffs, and would never consider the user-hostile MS.
      - Closi 2y ago

alp1n3_eth 2y ago

I think there's a difference between Microsoft refusing to support completely operational hardware for their new OS, and Apple not adding extra features / support into a pre-existing product just because the underlying tech is now more powerful. It sounds weird, but going OS #1 -> OS #2, you don't expect your hardware to impact it from a computer point of view. But going from iPad #1 -> iPad #2, why would it all of a sudden have a completely different OS and support when iPad #1 is even still receiving updates? We've reached the age where you need 16GB ram to even keep some tabs open on Mac + Windows, and in terms of versatile computing and gaming I think cloud-based Linux really is the answer. Once it comes time for my next gaming computer upgrade, I'm pretty confident with just using a game streaming platform vs. paying $500 for a new graphics card + anything else (since my current MB doesn't support Windows 11...). Same goes for coding, just connect the IDE to your dedicated cloud box and away you go, all the power and scale you could ever need from $10/mo and up.

johnisgood 2y ago
"cloud-based ... is the answer", please, I hope not.
gerdesj 2y ago
In my attic is a Dell PowerEdge T320 - it used to run VMware. That got as far as ESXi 6.5 and then it went out of support completely by VMware. Last year I migrated all my VMs to Proxmox. I have two RAID volumes on it, so I moved the lot to the second volume, wiped the first one and installed Proxmox on it. I migrated the VMs over to QEMMU and binned the second volume (save power!) The real point of this diatribe is that my attic server is fully supported once more by the OS vendor(s). They give a shit about me - Debian and Proxmox. Perhaps you might contrast that with your discussion about Microsoft and Apple's approaches to hardware and systems support.
gessha 2y ago
Why would you trust everything on somebody else’s computer?!

axpvms 2y ago

>Will we still have just three operating systems to choose from - of which only two are really suitable for a worker's desktop? That's going to go down poorly with the Linux enthusiasts

archontes 2y ago
I'm not even a Linux "enthusiast". I simply find Windows to be a terrible product and Linux to be a better product. I simply use the least terrible option.
dangus 2y ago
Heck, that's going to go down poorly with those who will correctly point out that not only are there a gazillion Linux desktop environments which equates to a lot more than 3 "operating system" choices ("Linux" is just the kernel and a set of included/bundled/related technologies) but that there are also other systems you can daily drive like FreeBSD that aren't even Linux.
pjmlp 2y ago
As former Linux enthusiast, I am alright with it, I rather game, watch hardware accelerated videos, got access to the tools I need, and I need to reach out for GNU/Linux, can always start a VM.
linguae 2y ago
Unfortunately many people rely on proprietary software packages that don't run on Linux, such as Microsoft Office, the Adobe Creative Suite, and other desktop software tools that serve various niches like CAD, music, video production, desktop publishing, etc. There are often FOSS alternatives that run on Linux, but sometimes these alternatives have shortcomings that hinder adoption, such as lacking necessary features, having imperfect file format compatibility with proprietary file formats, having a less intuitive UI, etc. With that said, the desktop Linux ecosystem has come a long way over the past 20 years that I've been following it, and I think desktop Linux serves the needs of people who are not reliant on the Windows and Mac ecosystems.
- 2y ago

rs186 2y ago

That's why I am still using iPad Pro from 2018. There is nothing in their new iPads that is interesting to me. I don't think I'll upgrade unless any of the following happens: (1) the iPad dies (2) it stops getting any updates and cannot install any apps (3) it can rust Python/Rust/Go/vscode natively at raw performance, without all those stupid, unnecessary sorcery just to make things run at a fraction of real hardware power. Voting with my wallet.

nkotov 2y ago

I have two iPads Pros. I still can't figure out where I can use them. I realize that they are overpowered entertainment devices for me now.

SOLAR_FIELDS 2y ago
I see visual artists and musicians having some decent use cases for them. Everyone I know who has an iPad that isn’t one of these professions is usually using it as an expensive portable streaming device
- widforss 2y ago
  I think pastors and politicians have quite some use of them as well.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    Or anybody that stands a lot without a desk handy, that doesn't want to use https://a.co/d/aqI3SvI https://a.co/d/aqI3SvI and try type into a laptop.
- pessimizer 2y ago
  [dead]
_mlbt 2y ago
I use mine all the time for taking notes, keeping up with my calendar, and just for staying organized in general. The Apple Pencil is so smooth and natural.
anon7000 2y ago
They are solid for audio production too, with a lot of fairly powerful DAWs. (Like AUM or Loopy Pro.) you can even connect MIDI instruments from other apps into the DAW and then play them with a connected midi controller, add USB audio interfaces for multitrack recording and live performances, etc. Or it can be a glorified PDF reader for sheet music (with a nice pencil to boot)… and it’s also great for drawing. They’re very powerful devices. Sure, iOS is limited, with poor multitasking workflows. But you can still write very powerful apps for iOS.

jmull 2y ago

I guess this kind of article always gets attention, but they always seem so stupid to me. A thing exists that I don't want. I could: (1) ignore the thing; or (2) complain that the thing isn't something I want (1) seems so obviously the right thing to do. This goes double when the thing you do want does, in fact, exist. But, no, the internet opts for (2). I guess complaining just feels good, even when it's about something that has zero actual effect on you (or on anyone, even).

dangus 2y ago
The author literally just bought the wrong device for their needs. Probably 95% of people who own computers do not need root access and should not have it, possibly ever. The iPad is a great device for all the people who need what it offers. It's an amazing graphical tablet, it's a cheap way to watch movies and play games, and it's an amazing system to use while standing without a desk (e.g., for retail and outdoor situations). All of these use cases have nothing to do with gaining root access. Heck, I don't even think most of my development tasks on a real desktop computer involve elevating into root privileges. I'd sure like the ability to but if it was taken away from me I'm not sure it would affect me all that much. "I don't consider any system without root access to be a real computer. So anyway, I decided to buy a Roku streaming box as my main computer and it sucks! What's wrong with the world today!?"
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Some folks seem to be in the fashion that everything with a CPU can get a monitor and a keyboard attached to it, regardless of the original design purpose.
  - Apocryphon 2y ago
    Why not? https://www.youtube.com/@BringusStudios https://www.youtube.com/@BringusStudios
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      Personally I rather buy hardware fit for purpose.

nottorp 2y ago

Yes? The iPad is a "content consumption" device. With the exception of a few graphics workflows, you're better off with a laptop/desktop.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Add a Bluetooth keyboard, & then the two being separate products becomes a farce. I love the new MacBook Air's looks, but I can't help but constantly imagine how much better it would be as a detachable, or as a 2-in-1 convertible. The thing is, the laptop is just a bad format period. Ideally you don't want to be looking just above where you type: good ergonomics requires distance between those two. An elevated tablet with a Bluetooth keyboard is a far far better option. But Apple has these market segments that prevent actual good from being possible.
- rad_gruchalski 2y ago
  > The thing is, the laptop is just a bad format period. Ideally you don't want to be looking just above where you type: good ergonomics requires distance between those two. An elevated tablet with a Bluetooth keyboard is a far far better option. I bring a laptop to the office, put it on a stand, plug two external screens and a USB-C hub with a keyboard and mouse. But I can also use it on a train, at an airport, on a ferry without all that extra gear. In the latter configuration the distance from where I type to where I look is bigger than on your default iPad. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I do also like my 64GB RAM, 1TB drive, and 12 cores. The laptop is a perfect form for me. I'm sorry it doesn't work for you. The only thing for me "ideally" would be to be able to plug two more screens in (so... it's time to upgrade to an m4 max...)
  - jauntywundrkind 2y ago
    I also bring a (Linux running x86) tablet with me everywhere. Its fantastically light and I can plug it in to two displays. It has a very lightweight keyboard folio. More typically, i leave that at home & bring a small light clamp-mount arm that lets me easily mount it to whatever is nearby, tables or desks chairs or whatever. And use the very nice ThinkPad TrackPoint Bluetooth keyboard. I have strictly more flexibility. And given that Mac has the same chips in both iPad and MacBook Air and Pro, it feels again like the distinction here is mostly arbitrary segmentation, not real. With ultra high end Asus Flow Z13 tablets rocking Strix Halo APUs, there's also proof that tablets can be incredibly power dense, if they want to be. The laptop is a constrained design. That constraint is not a feature. You can do the same thing without that constraint. Just not on Apple.

fastaguy88 2y ago

I am very puzzled. Apple has locked you in a cage because you bought an iPad to replace a MacBook? What is the cage, and why weren’t you the jailer?

frosting1337 2y ago
I mean the author explains his thoughts in the article, you should read it again.
- kelnos 2y ago
  The author's thoughts don't make sense, though. He's expecting a locked-down tablet appliance to suit the same needs and use cases as a laptop running a general-purpose OS. Or at best, he's not expecting that, but is at least complaining about it, which feels a little pointless. He can get what he wants by buying a new Mac, as he suggests. It's not like what he wants doesn't exist. He's just complaining that some other random product doesn't do what he wants, even though it's not designed to. Pointless.
  - drdaeman 2y ago
    My understanding is that the post is essentially a complaint about deceptive marketing. iPads are marketed as capable of "doing all the things you love", how it's "so versatile it's up to any task" and so on - leading to perception that it's like a computer, except in a different form factor. While, in reality, of course it's not. Personally, I never found any subjectively meaningful use case for iPads except for portable media consumption (aka watching movies on the Porcelain Throne, and even then it's not a great option as it lacks multi-user support). Every time Apple announces a new one, I have this feeling of cognitive dissonance between what the device actually is and how it's marketed. (I'm sure there are lots of good use cases for iPad - just nothing I personally need or care about. Aka "I'm not in the target market")
    - matwood 2y ago
      Apple is marketing to everyone and not just the HN crowd. For many people their phone is their only computing device and for them an iPad is likely a big upgrade. When I have to proof photos or do a bunch of office type work, an iPad has become my goto device. When I'm programming, not so much. But I don't think that's a big secret to this crowd.

protocolture 2y ago

iPad is a product segment, its not really comparable with legions of windows 10 machines not getting windows 11, which is vastly the same operating system as 10 with TPM2 and secure boot becoming hard requirements. Yeah it sucks apple doesnt give you root access to your tablet. And it does suck that microsoft wont let us upgrade our PC's. But they are different unique variations on sucking for largely different reasons.

znpy 2y ago

I don’t know if the author realised they proved Apple’s point: they have paid money for an ipad but they will pay more money for an m4 macbook air anyway.

lenkite 2y ago

Author has not tried WSL - its pretty amazing on windows and is the designated cage breaker for Windows. I run nearly everything inside WSL and all apps runs faster! Thanks to Windows security not scanning files inside WSL, the laptop fan doesn't start spinning up when doing I/O intensive work. Can actually rest the laptop on my lap without wincing.

TrisMcC 2y ago
WSL is fine for some purposes. It just never got better. I just wiped my 4-year install on my work thinkpad for direct Linux after wrestling with WSL2 which broke in numerous ways in every update: - WSLg is a pile of crap, and it feels like no development was done on it after it was initially released. It is so easy to crash the display server. It still does not resume from sleep reliably. Anything that quickly opens windows or does any sort of automation (like selenium/cypress tests) are prone to breakage. - Networking works until it doesn't. Sometimes updates break DNS. Sometimes the bridged networking just fails. The second problem here is why I finally threw in the towel. I could not get networking working reliably in the VM after a routine Windows update. Everything feels completely hacked together.
- lenkite 2y ago
  Huh, I haven't experienced those problems on my thinkpad - sleep/resume seems to work without issues. But admittedly I am just doing simple developer work, nothing fancy.

NoPicklez 2y ago

I don't understand these articles, they've stumbled upon what many of us have known which is that the iPad just doesn't feel the same as a Macbook laptop. The iPad just doesn't suit what they need, some people it does suit them better, others not. They could've just gone back to the Macbook and left the iPad for others, but felt the need for an article. I was telling people back in 2012 that whilst the iPad is a shiny new thing, it doesn't fit the bill like a laptop and subsequently our staff wanted both laptops and iPads once they realised that. There's a lot of loose connections and frustrations in this article whereby the Surface Pro not being able to upgrade to Windows 11 being another source of issues, whilst this also impacts Desktop users it still wouldn't fix the keyboard and trackpad issues. If you like the Macbook and its functionality, keep buying a damn Macbook then. Apple didn't lock you into anything, you tried to use a different Apple product in the same way you use your Macbook and found out they're not designed to work that way.

ForHackernews 2y ago
>they're not designed to work that way. It would be more accurate to say that they are designed not to work that way. In modern times, every limited-purpose internet-connected gadget is actually a general-purpose computer that has been deliberately crippled. The reason you can't run arbitrary software on "your" iPad is because they have locked it down so Apple owns the hardware, not you.
- amelius 2y ago
  Yes, the iPad is a vending machine, owned and run by Apple, but paid for by you, the customer.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    I have the option of paying for every subscription service I use on my iPad without paying Apple a dime - ChatGPT, Google drive, Office 365, every streaming service, Kindle books etc
    - 2y ago

booleandilemma 2y ago

iPads have always been this way, right? They're an appliance, and only a computer in the technical sense. Did the author just learn how to program and he wants a terminal now?

walterbell 2y ago
> Did the author just learn to program He is the co-inventor of VRML (1994), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Pesce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Pesce. Register bio says: Mark has worked in the technology industry since the late 1980s, and has contributed to all manner of products, from dial-up modems to 3D graphics including co-inventing VRML.

jaimex2 2y ago

I'm 10 years in now in not running either Windows or Mac and reading these articles is so uncanny.

WorldPeas 2y ago
As a person who just entered the latter ecosystem as a matter of peer compatibility, after 10 years of Linux, it's miserable and I wish I could go back to what you have. Even with how blighted X86 feels, it feels even worse to have a computer that couldn't do what you wanted to and has the audacity to complain at you that it knows better and you shouldn't be able to alter certain parts of it
- matteotom 2y ago
  I switched my personal laptop to a M1 Macbook Pro (from a Thinkpad running Linux, also after almost 10 years) in 2020, mostly because I had switched to an iPhone a few months prior and was using a Macbook for work. It was certainly convenient most of the time - most features I wanted worked out of the box, and most dev tools could be managed by homebrew (at least well enough). But annoyances slowly stacked up over time. Things like so much software being closed source (and often paid), or updates taking too long, or not being able to debug why something didn't work how I expected (eg, sometimes when plugging into my dock w/ monitors, it would decide to put all the windows on different screens than when I unplugged). I finally broke down last year and bought a new Thinkpad and immediately installed Gentoo. While I've spent a lot more time configuring everything, at least it works exactly as I expect and I can easily debug when something goes wrong.
  - WorldPeas 2y ago
    glad to see it's not just me in this exact predicament. I'm thinking I'll switch to a device next that also supports cell modems because apple gave me a taste for it while not granting the greatest stability
    - matteotom 2y ago

ggm 2y ago

Google Pixels are getting something akin to vm's and wsl. More than dex, but less than full visibility to all of the Android fs. Termux is a halfway house. It's said this will be better. Maybe iPad OS will do this too in the future? It feels like an air with a detachable keyboard is close.

walterbell 2y ago
> Maybe iPad OS will do this too in the future? It did in the past, but OS support was removed. Hopefully it will return.

mullingitover 2y ago

"My decade-old and very well-travelled Toyota Land Cruiser finally died, and I hoped my new-ish ebike could replace it." How that article sounds. I don't care how fancy they make them, iPads are just unserious computing devices for real work.

alabastervlog 2y ago
I see them more than laptops among actual people out in the world doing real work. Phones, too. [edit] non-office-workers, I mean.
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  What is this "real work?"
  - sbuk 2y ago
    Not the Orange Site bubble...
  - h2zizzle 2y ago
    Construction, for one.
jjtheblunt 2y ago
If you're an artist who draws, I think they're serious computing devices.
- aleph_minus_one 2y ago
  > If you're an artist who draws, I think they're serious computing devices. An artist who draws might consider iPads to be serious drawing devices.
  - musicale 2y ago
    That's high praise since it's basically what Apple was going for with the iPad, getting out of your way to let you focus on the task at hand.

travisgriggs 2y ago

/s My life would clearly be better if all of my non-programmer non-technical family members and friends, young and old had a terminal and unix user levels exposed to them…

WorldPeas 2y ago

The reasons this article cites are likely why so many of my peers, myself included I have switched to "home servers" to gain any sort of freedom. It's sad that it had to come to this, but for any device that's meant to fit into pocket or move around it's simply not efficient for our kind of consumer to have any control over the design process

j45 2y ago

Apple experimented with the iPad head to head with was also experimenting with the 12” MacBook retina which was only 12 lb. If you want something iPad size with a first class keyboard and mouse experience there might not be a better remote terminal than the 12” MacBook (sans touch screen) compared to the iPad

bruce511 2y ago

>> Will we still have just three operating systems to choose from - of which only two are really suitable for a worker's desktop? Such an intriguing statement. Firstly there are at least 5 major operating systems in play (windows, MacOS, Linux, iOS and Android. ) Plus a lot of "minor" ones (BSD etc), and any number of tiny ones. But assuming he meant mainstream desktop machines, let's focus on Windows, Mac and Linux. I can only assume the "not suitable for workers desktop " means Linux. Now lots of techies use Linux for desktop, and there are lots who say it could be used as a general desktop, but it hasn't gained much traction there. Linux of course reigns on the server, with Windows Server also strong. Indeed you see this "choice of 2" (with sometimes a distant 3rd) in pretty much all hardware spaces. iOS and Android. Windows and Mac. Windows and Linux. PS5 and Xbox. Notice how it starts first with the function - what the machine is designed to do. Then the mainstream coaleses around 2 players. But often with other minor alternatives. This approach works well. We don't need 5 desktop OSs to choose from. Or 5 servers. Or 5 tablets.

walterbell 2y ago
> Or 5 tablets. Two would be nice. Pixel (7) Tablet with GrapheneOS was a good start, but V2 was cancelled. Lenovo Yoga x86 is higher price tier.

everyone 2y ago

This is pathetic, just get literally any laptop u want.. have one made up if u want, and put linux on it. apple-heads have some sort of bizarre stockholm syndrome thing going on. The mental gymnastics they do are insane. I guess that's what comes from decades of buying the same components as everyone else, but in a shiny box with a shit OS and a 4X markup.

throwaway314155 2y ago

What a fresh and original take! /s

h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 2y ago

Why did the author buy Microsoft and Apple devices and expect them to deliver their customization needs? If I would attempt something like this today, I'd probably buy a used Microsoft Surface tablet from ebay and install Archlinux(ARM) on it, with Plasma Mobile and KDE. In the worst case I log out and log in again after I unplugged the device from its peripherals. And in second worst case I just use its mobile attachable keyboard with it. I guess that was the dream behind the purchases of pinephones and pinetab devices back then, which were too underpowered in terms of CPU and GPU for it.

real0mar 2y ago

Apple's marketing team must be so good if they can convince HN users that an iPad is a suitable replacement for a "real" computer. No one who knows what a terminal or root access even means should be fooled by this.

SoleilAbsolu 2y ago

I admin 150 Windows machines, have set up Linux servers, TBH I am not religious about OS, though Android is my least favorite. I recently got an iPad Air and a MacBook Air 15 to replace older devices (2018 & 2012). The MacBook is lighter and has better battery life than the iPad with Magic Keyboard, wasn't expecting that! My biggest frustration with iOS is how it abstracts & hides away file system access. Especially for producing music across multiple apps I find it much easier on a Mac, same for any programming. Not to mention the dongle-mania for connecting peripherals! An iPad's just an overgrown phone at heart. And...IME iOS doesn't have the same true realtime low latency performance as OSX. I have been able to flog Mac laptops, iMacs & desktops right up to the edge for audio/video production (Logic, iMovie, FinalCut, Ableton Live) and they'll absolutely keep up (within limits like reasonable audio buffer latency settings for complex projects). While iOS can definitely have audible glitches, especially with multiple apps open. But I take the iPad out of the house much more. I think Apple could add touchscreens to laptops without destroying iPad sales, but I don't want them to iOS-ify OSX completely.

yokoprime 2y ago

I think there was a thread on Reddit recently, where the thread starter had been forced to use his iPad for work a whole day. The user concluded (paraphrasing) "its like replacing a truck with a small sedan. Sure you can still haul many of the same things, but it will require a lot more work and trips back and forth"

Kwpolska 2y ago

I don't understand how the author managed to connect iPads running a toy operating system with Microsoft's serious business operating system not being supported on older hardware.

nehal3m 2y ago
The connection is these vendors are artificially restricting users from running the software they want on their own hardware.

bilekas 2y ago

“Hey why doesn’t this tablet designed for “pro” web browsing replace my workstation?” I’ve actually seen this sentiment so much from apple “pro” users. They seem to think that because the os feel is similar that it should just work the same. It’s the equivalent of expecting a gaming laptop to perform as well as a PC.

Synaesthesia 2y ago
M2 has so much power, it's got more CPU power than Mac's which still do their job perfectly well, like my sister's old MacBook Pro, which she uses for design work.

relistan 2y ago

I’m personally not interested in a mishmash laptop-tablet thing. You end up with a thing that is either good at one and not the other or a thing that is bad at both.

staticelf 2y ago

Stop. Buying. Their. Closed. Tech. And you will be free.

p0w3n3d 2y ago

I dub the distinction between a tablet and a laptop fake. Tbh they are running the same hardware. I started with Android and first things I did on my phones was to install terminal and ssh. Later it became impossible, because of the changes that were being imposed by Google ("for the sake of my safety"). What I valued Android over IOS was to have access to my files (like DVD-dumped futurama) that I could watch on them (I did it before it was trendy, before netflix came into phones, moreover before the data transfer got so cheap I could watch a whole movie and not pay through my nose). On IOS it was possible though with VLC - I had to upload there my movies using HTTP server (yes - server had to be on a computer). And then it began! You cannot listen to free spotify on your tablet the same way you got it on your laptop - you have to install an app and it will impose on you different limitations. HEY! This is the same thing as my laptop! HOW CAN YOU TELL!??? AH MY BROWSER WEASELED ME OUT?

p0w3n3d 2y ago
so apparently I've witnessed a new device category being born. Not a mobile, not a laptop. Which has neither the rights and obligations of real computer nor of the mobile phone. It is something new (A TABLET) and will not let me handle my photos on it as I could handle them on my phone, it wouldn't let me browse pages as if this was laptop (even though I put it in the orientation the same as my laptop had) etc. etc. It caused me a lot of pain, as at that time me working at the bank, I had some limitations on the network, and I wanted to buy something on my iPAD, but the pages would detect me being "A TABLET = MOBILE DEVICE" and showing me different, broken versions of pages I wanted to navigate.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Don't most browsers have a "Desktop site" option you can turn on to tell websites you want the desktop version? It seems weird to blame your device for websites' bad decisions, especially when your device goes out of its way to allow you to force websites to correct their mistake.
  - Robotbeat 2y ago

sp_c 2y ago

"Do not buy something for a promise of what it 'could' do, but what it can currently do." I forget who said this, but you just need to follow this rule and you won't have this problem anymore.

skc 2y ago

Remember Jobs coining the phrase "Post PC era". Good times. There was a period of about two, maybe three years where you saw nothing but tablets outdoors. Now it's very rare for me to see someone tapping away at an iPad out in the wild, all I see are laptops.

basisword 2y ago
I know a lot of people who don't own laptops/desktops at all. None in their household. They simply use their phone for everything and a few have tablets, especially the people with kids. If you go to a holiday resort and go for dinner you'll find that 90% of the kids in that place have a tablet with them. If you take "PC" as meaning "Personal Computer" I think Jobs was right. People still need a 'real' computer for work but personal computing for the majority of people is simply content consumption, ordering stuff on the web, and communicating with people and they can do all that easily on a phone or tablet.

basisword 2y ago

This was all over the place. The article itself seemingly bares no relation to the headline. Replacing your laptop with a tablet and then complaining that the tablet cannot do the same things as the laptop was a slightly interesting take in 2010. The iPad has now been around for 15 years. A tech journalist being surprised it doesn't have a terminal with root access at this point is baffling.

TiredOfLife 2y ago
The register and ars technica have essentially the same relation to truth as the onion.
walterbell 2y ago
Google Pixel tablet now has a Debian Linux terminal VM that is isolated from the host Android OS. Apple iPad had VM capability three years ago, but removed it. They could restore that functionality in 2025 to compete with Pixel tablet, which has weaker hardware.
- Robotbeat 2y ago
  Wait, they HAD VM capability but removed it?? That’s somehow so much worse…
- rafram 2y ago
  > Apple iPad had VM capability three years ago, but removed it. It definitely did not.
  - easton 2y ago
    It did, kinda, they shipped Hypervisor.framework in some builds of iPadOS 15 and 16: https://x.com/utmapp/status/1708907045314035986 https://x.com/utmapp/status/1708907045314035986 But you needed a private entitlement for it to work that no app (save UTM after a jailbreak) had, so the pet theory at the time was internal Apple engineers were running around with Linux on their iPads.
- deleted 2y ago

DaveMcMartin 2y ago

The iPad is in a kind of gray landscape because it is not phone and it is not a Mac but they are treated special like the iPhone so they can put any greed-based limitations they want instead of it becaming a general computer.

neogodless 2y ago

While I think everyone has more than covered the contents of the article, the title is rather ridiculous in itself. (Note original title in source: "Hardware locks us in Apple's and Microsoft's monopoly cages") > Microsoft won't let users upgrade their older boxen to Windows 11. OK but this does not put you in a cage with your older devices. Windows 10 machines are still general computing devices (or personal computer / PC). Eventually, the blocked upgrades will mean the consumer has to choose between installing Linux or buying a new PC. That's a very different choice from what you have as an iPad owner (if it's your only device.) And as others have pointed out, buying that device was a choice. Arguably misinformed if you thought it was a PC when it is, in fact, a closed-source and locked down tablet. You mention a Surface Go - so OK you know what a "tablet" that is designed to be a convertible between laptop and tablet looks like and how it works. But just because Microsoft did that, and Apple kind of advertises the iPad that way, doesn't meant Apple and Microsoft put you in the same cage. In fact, they are quite the opposite! To address that original "monopoly" title - in fact again I think the opposite is happening. Microsoft "forcing" you to purchase something new because you can't "upgrade" to Windows 11. Well actually it drives some people to Linux or Apple. And it's software that is responsible for the issue, not hardware. No wonder you changed the title, but it still doesn't work with your article.

dade_ 2y ago

Back in the 90s John C Dvorak wrote an article calling a Mac a Cuisinart. It was a criticism of Apple that they had created an appliance, not a general purpose computer. Granted the guy hated Macs at the time, but I think it’s a reasonable way to describe an iPad.

averageRoyalty 2y ago

> What we see today is the outcome of almost two decades of design choices that have only recently started to accommodate keyboards and external pointing devices. ?? I've been using an iPad with folio keyboard for close to a decade and first party apps have always had fantastic support. Even third party is usually pretty good. I don't think the author here has any idea what they're talking about.