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Cable-cutting tanker seized by Finland 'was loaded with spying equipment'

590 points by nabla9 2y ago

fi358 2y ago
I found a video that has lot of information about the cable severing ship: Tanker Eagle S Seized by Finland for Severing Cables Between Finland & Estonia | Is it a Spy Ship? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy27qiKVCSI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy27qiKVCSI
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
mulmen 2y ago
> The hi-tech equipment on board was abnormal for a merchant ship and consumed more power from the ship’s generator, leading to repeated blackouts, a source familiar with the vessel who provided commercial maritime services to it as recently as seven months ago. Am I having a stroke or is this article translated? I'm not a Russia defender but this is comically inept if true. Why commit such brazen sabotage with a spy ship?
- reactordev 2y ago
  Ships are often balanced between providing power and consuming it. Excess power gen is wasted fuel. Excess power draw is a blackout so it’s very typical of a ships captain or owner to max out power consumption while minimizing power generation. Its a cost index. I do this on my own sailboat with a solar power source and battery setup.
  - applied_heat 2y ago
    Diesel generators simply use less fuel if there is less load than the maximum.
    - GenerocUsername 2y ago
      But it's not perfectly linear, and as should get bigger, the incentive to optimize grows
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Not exactly. A diesel engine uses less fuel at 80% load than 50%. At maximum load it uses the most fuel but in general as load increases the engine gets more efficient and so the calculations are weird. Note that generators need to run at constant rpm to provide the correct ac frequency. Your car has gears so that it can run at lower rpm at low loads and so you won't see the same effect.
      - giantrobot 2y ago
        An independent diesel generator could have been loaded onto the ship as easily as the spy equipment. It was a tanker, there was plenty of room for a genset and its own fuel. Then the ship's power plant wouldn't be taxed at all.
        bluGill 2y ago
        Generally the people ordering radios don't think about that. They are used to land where you have more power to the building than you could possibly use.
        reactordev 2y ago
        Then you have radio equipment in addition to an independent diesel generator and fuel to explain… Yes it was a tanker. The bigger the ship doesn’t mean it has more people or more power generation like a cruise ship. A tanker has a crew of 4 plus captain, maybe?
        giantrobot 2y ago
        You've got the spying equipment to explain if boarded. An extra generator is hardly a concern. If anything an auxiliary generator can be explained as a backup/replacement for the ship's mandated backup generator.
  - slow_typist 2y ago
    There are many parts on a ship of that size which need power and are critical for safety. That is not comparable to leisure craft.
    - watt 2y ago
      Thank you for your insight. Hard to believe nobody else thought of it before.
      - Normal_gaussian 2y ago
        Whilst basic, its a critical and valid point. It is being made on a forum where shipping, ships, and related engineering issues are not well known (at all). It does lead to questions about how backup and failover power work on large ships. Secondary generation? Central batteries? Per device battery failover?
        pas 2y ago
        Batteries, yes. And there's an emergency generator that runs on diesel (big ships run on "bunker oil") which can be started with batteries or manually. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_Y2VNS5TFFY https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_Y2VNS5TFFY (this one with a hydraulic hand pump) https://marineengineeringonline.com/emergency-generator-on-ships/ https://marineengineeringonline.com/emergency-generator-on-s...
- ein0p 2y ago
  I'm having a hard time believing that "a few suitcases" of equipment would strain the generator of a large ship. There's also no way _three_ countries (one of which is a member of NATO, further straining credibility of the article) would be using the same super secret spy equipment.
  - 4ndrewl 2y ago
    Are you having a hard time believing this _because_ of your experience in such maritime matters or _despite_ of it?
  - asdff 2y ago
    The article said “huge portable suitcases” which in my mind went to those giant rock concert equipment suitcases with caster wheels. And then the article is talking about how these ships are ancient and in poor repair. The power was probably going on and off long before they overloaded it.
    - AYBABTME 2y ago
      But 20y isn't ancient, as far as I can tell?
      - dietr1ch 2y ago
        I guess it's long enough for poor maintenance to let salty water do its thing. AFAIK even cars sent across the Pacific show damage when they arrive and special care is put to coat them.
        postalrat 2y ago
        No. It's a clear lie.
    - martin8412 2y ago
      They're called flight cases :)
  - 2y ago
- codezero 2y ago
  Because they’ve been getting away with it unchecked for decades.
- magicalhippo 2y ago
  > Why commit such brazen sabotage with a spy ship? That part seemed odd to me too. Spy folks aren't the ones conducting sabotage? If one division has installed apy equipment then surely they don't want that fact plastered all over documents, so perhaps the sabotage guys just saw a suitable ship in the harbor and presuaded/replaced the crew? Doesn't look good either way though.
  - clort 2y ago
    The way I read it, this is reportage from a person who worked with the ship about things which happened some months ago. There is nothing to say this equipment was still on board. > They said no further equipment returned to the ship after it was offloaded for analysis, to their knowledge
    - magicalhippo 2y ago
      Good catch, missed that bit.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  > Why commit such brazen sabotage with a spy ship? Perhaps it wasn't brazen sabotage, but incompetent attempts to attach something to the lines? Or conflicting agendas trickling down to the same ship, where the left-hand of "go cause some mayhem" didn't know what the right-hand of "collect signals intelligence" was already doing with that asset.
  - fi358 2y ago
    I don't think it was incompetent attempts to attach something to the lines. It severed 4 data data cables and electricity cable called Estlink 2. If it hadn't been stopped, it would have severed also Estlink 1 within half and hour later perhaps also Balticconnector gas pipe. About year ago Balticconnector gas pipe was already damaged by a Chinese ship, which had been dragging the anchor for long time in a very suspicious manner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balticconnector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balticconnector And again in August several data cables were severed by a Chinese ship. According to one analysis, that time they may have dragged the anchor for 400 kilometers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB-vEp3wr-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB-vEp3wr-0 BTW, Russia seems to have for years spend time finding out the routes of sea cables and perhaps also spied them or prepared some kind of sabotage: The global internet is powered by vast undersea cables. But they're vulnerable. https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/25/asia/internet-undersea-cables-intl-hnk/ https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/25/asia/internet-undersea-ca... Ukraine war: The Russian ships accused of North Sea sabotage https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65309687 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65309687 Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action...
    - cinntaile 2y ago
      > Russia seems to have for years spend time finding out the routes of sea cables and perhaps also spied them or prepared some kind of sabotage: The cable positions are public info, they don't need to spend time finding out where they are.
      - fi358 2y ago
        Is the exact positions public info or is it just crude positions? BTW, if the exact cable positions is public info, where is it available?
- ajuc 2y ago
  Why not? Let me remind you the Russian capital ship of the Black Sea fleet during this war had most of it's self-defense systems inactive and half of them broken and was destroyed with 2 missiles. And the only Russian carrier - Kuznetsov - is famous for sailing everywhere with tug boats in escort because its engines are broken more often than working :) Russian fleet's second name is "comically inept".
  - cpursley 2y ago
    Carriers are great at projecting power against poor people but sitting ducks against a near peer. And you probably know about the UKs recent propulsion system boondoggle… Anyways, they just launched this very potent sub yesterday as well as several other hypersonic carrying boats this year (4 subs, 7 surface ships - all fake according to Reddit): - https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/russian-navy-receives-fifth-yasen-m-class-nuclear-submarine-arkhangelsk/ https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/russian-navy-receives-fif...
    - ajuc 2y ago
      Oh they are always great in the press releases :) And it's not like the ships are badly designed. The Kuznetsov sister ship that was a casino for a while and now is Chinese works perfectly well. The problem with Russian navy is lack of maintenance, total disregard of safety and procedures, 0 fucks given about human life, uneducated, drunken crews and widespread corruption. I recommend reading about K-429 - a nuclear submarine that sunk not once but twice. First time because it was ordered to do exercises while the hull was in maintenance. Despite protests of the crew. Second time in dock during repairs after it got recovered. Worker negligence apparently. Fun fact - it's not the only Russian nuclear submarine that participated in 2 disasters.
      - cpursley 2y ago
        Where do you think those big missile barrages are coming from - Black Sea dolphins? You clearly spend too much time on reddit - sure, their carrier, Mosvka and that sub were ancient. But their recent boats are capable and pack a lot of offensive punch. One of their new corvettes could probably disable a carrier battle group. Only fools and immature people play the "the other side is incompetent and has shitty gear" game. I can assure you, the Pentagon and other Western militaries take it all very seriously.
- rasz 2y ago
  When you are evil as F the brightest minds tend to disappear leaving you with yes men and idiots. As Ukrainians eloquently put it way back in 2022: "We are very lucky they're so fucking stupid" https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tdj65n/were_very_lucky_theyre_so_fucking_stupid/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tdj65n/were_very_l... In the year of our lord 2024 russians are assaulting using Mad Max modified Ladas and push bikes, its no longer a meme! USSR stocks of armor are finally running out. 27 Oct 2024 'THE ARMOR RAN OUT - THEY WENT IN PICK-UPS. They reach the trenches and the assault ends.' - Combat group K-2 54th brigade https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uy2KpKj0t8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uy2KpKj0t8 A Russian Assault Group Riding In Pickup Trucks And Flying The Soviet Flag Got ‘Special Attention’ From Ukrainian Forces https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/12/21/a-russian-assault-group-riding-in-pickup-trucks-and-flying-the-soviet-flag-got-special-attention-from-ukrainian-forces/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/12/21/a-russian-a...
  - amelius 2y ago
    They still have Mach 5 rockets that the US cannot defend against.
    - dralley 2y ago
      Patriot batteries have shot down every missile type that isn't an IRBM like Oreshnik, and those are closer to Mach 11 than Mach 5. Kinzhal and Zircon have been at least semi-reliably shot down. Iskander is very reliablly shot down. The main issue is that Ukraine just doesn't have enough Patriot batteries to defend the whole country, so the Russians stopped shooting where the air defense is. They also use a bunch of S-300s as ballistic missiles (a secondary capability to their primary role as air defense) but primarily against cities that don't have air defense. But they're too inaccurate and inexpensive for the Ukrainians to bother attempting to intercept even if they had enough of the appropriate air defenses.
      - mountainstar 2y ago
        "Patriot batteries have shot down every missile type that isn't an IRBM like Oreshnik, and those are closer to Mach 11 than Mach 5." Keep lying lol
- themgt 2y ago
  The article is terribly written. It ends with: The transmitting and receiving devices were used to record all radio frequencies, and upon reaching Russia were offloaded for analysis. ... They said no further equipment returned to the ship after it was offloaded for analysis, to their knowledge, but other devices were placed on another related tanker, Swiftsea Rider. What seems implied is that the ship was previously used for spying back in June, then the spy equipment was offloaded from the ship and it was later repurposed to cut the cables.
- deleted 2y ago
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- newsclues 2y ago
  It’s not a spy ship. It’s a ship, that was used for spying. Not a special ship built for spying. So it’s just an asset at sea that can be covertly used and disposed if discovered. It’s a burner, something to use and discard when it’s no longer useful. The spy gear is on another ship and the anchor trick can be played again
- Hilift 2y ago
  Russia has many of these types of boats. They are inexpensive. The "equipment" is portable in suitcases. There is a lot of marine traffic in the Baltic Sea. They may have thought they could do it during the holidays and move the equipment to another ship nearby without detection. Or, a Russian port is very close, perhaps they thought they could take off and make it to Russian waters before Finland intercepted them. Check out the route on marinetraffic.com. The cable is between Helsinki and Tallinn, St. Petersburg Russia (the "destination") is about 200 km away to the east.
- kruxigt 2y ago
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- simonh 2y ago
  I cite in evidence of Russian ineptness the entire history of their invasion of Ukraine. Given their vast and extensive advantages at the beginning of the invasion, if they were even vaguely competent they really would have been holding a parade in Kyiv within a few months. A competent military wouldn’t have lost their flagship, or let Ukraine counter-invade taking thousands of square kilometres of Russian territory. A competent regime wouldn’t have dismissed US warnings of an imminent terrorist attack on a specific music venue in Moscow and just let it happen. Loading up a tanker with power hungry kit it’s not able to properly support without discussing the idea with the crew, while threatening the crew if they don’t keep quiet, is par for the course.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    It extends for literal centuries before the current Ukraine debacle. The country has been a mindless lumbering brute for most of history.
  - ANewFormation 2y ago
    Before the invasion Ukraine had a total military force (including reserves) of 1.2 million backed by sizable numbers of highly motivated and heavily armed 'nationalist' forces. Since 2014 the West had been gradually arming Ukraine and various cities like Bakhmut were essentially fortified citadels enabling a defensive force to pose extreme resistance. There was 0 chance Ukraine was going to just flop over. Iraq and Afghanistan were humble villages by contrast - one which we lost to, and the other which our 'victory' amounted to bombing the government then hiding out in tiny little ultra fortified 'green zones' while waving a victory flag. In both cases with the wars dragged on for decades. Now imagine if Russia had decided to jump in one of those invasions and start shipping hundreds of billions of dollars of weapons to them, providing intelligence, and so on. Russia obviously just thought they were ambushing Ukraine and could get some agreement for them to not join NATO without a real war. Then the West decided to get involved, similarly thinking they were ambushing Russia and that the first sight of HIMARS or a Panther tank would send the Russian army scattering. Everybody was wrong, so we got a real war that nobody wanted.
    - 2y ago
- dspillett 2y ago
  > but this is comically inept if true Comically inept does sometimes seem to be the country's MO, due to corruption and miscommunication (the latter often deliberate to hide the former) between the various levels of control. People get away with it for quite some time, until a mistake/accident too big to successfully cover up occurs or there is other reason for an audit from above, at which point some are removed from their positions (often to particularly unpleasant penal arrangements, or perhaps being moved on via a defenestration "accident", as an example to others) and things improve for a while. This is often the case in other autocratic or anocratic countries too, but it seems particularly endemic in Russia (perhaps due to its wide geographic spread?). > Why commit such brazen sabotage with a spy ship? As others have said, other reasons of the article are that the ship has recently been used as a ship for spying, but equipment relating to that was not present at the time of the sabotage mission it was intercepted during.
  - panarky 2y ago
    When dissidents and journalists "fall out of windows", and when enemies of the state drink polonium tea, the obviousness isn't due to comic ineptness. It's obvious for a reason. They want the world to know. The obviousness isn't ineptness, it's a brazen display of power.
    - dspillett 2y ago
      I'm not suggesting the ineptness is present at the top or in key organs of the system, particularly parts responsible for enforcement and espionage. It naturally forms in the wider system through layers of control with people at each point doing the minimum required (well, the minimum they think that they can get away with) and creaming off any remaining resources. The obviousness of reactions from the near top when enacted, against those that are too close to failures or deliberately act against the system, while often difficult to directly link to the top, yes, is very deliberate, and generally not ineptly executed. In fact the individuals further down are often not really inept: they are can very good at doing what must be done with what little resource filters down while benefiting from what they can cream off, passing actual responsibility downwards, and keeping apparent responsibility for themselves (and their circles) when things go well. The comical ineptness is an emergent behaviour of the overall system that results from these behaviours. This is in stark contrast to some other regimes, for instance the UK under BoJo the Clown and his next couple of replacements where the ineptitude was at times frighteningly and obviously present at and near the top, or over the longer term things like the post office scandal & cover-up which has dragged on for so long through an apparent endemic immorality rather than localised manipulation at each level.
- ghjfrdghibt 2y ago
  You need to read both Red Notice, and Freezing Order by Bill Browder. Truly eye opening, and in line with this type of thing.
  - user432678 2y ago
    Got me interested, if you had time only for one, which one of two would you recommend?
- lenkite 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - nobunaga 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - lenkite 2y ago
      Aaah..the usual brain-dead and brain-washed response. Eyerolling and tiresome quips about Putin and Moscow. Never been to Moscow nor Russia and I don't have their Visa, so not sure how I can even "return" to it.
      - nobunaga 2y ago
        Are you referring to your statement about how russia is innocent and is being targeted for no reason since they never invaded another country and there are many sources for their attempts at sabotage and even assasinations, as braindead? Yes, you are indeed speaking braindead comments. Just re-read what you wrote, and then think about the events of the last 2 years. Try harder comrad.
        lenkite 2y ago
        No such statements/claims were made. Congratulations sir! You have won an award at the "Strawman Argument". Just re-read what you wrote and then refresh your knowledge of basic logical fallacies. Try harder at reading comprehension.
  - phatfish 2y ago
    Polite concern, check. Um, it's the US causing all the problems ACTUALLY, check. Lost faith in western media, check. It can't be Russia because it doesn't make sense guys! Check. "Time will tell", check.
  - ttkk 2y ago
    [flagged]
- lm28469 2y ago
  > I'm not a Russia defender but this is comically inept if true. I mean it's the 1000+ day of the 3 day special military operation, we've seen Russians with ww2 era rifles and gear, ww2 era tanks, &c. Being inept is the only thing the Russian army seems to achieve consistently.
- sandworm101 2y ago
  Power on a ship isn't like power on land. It may be that this gear was all on one phase of the 3-phase generator output, which would make sense if this was radio equipment. Overloading a particular phase/circuit with unplanned-for equipment can quickly trip switches and other safety system, cascading into a blackout.
- belorn 2y ago
  The strategy of the shadow fleet has historically been about using disposable and cheap commercial ships for dual purpose of military and economical operations, with plausible deniability as a bonus. Ducktaping spy equipment onto barely operating merchant ships fits perfectly for this purpose. It is the peace time version of the merchant raider.
tetrisgm 2y ago
Another sabotage by Russia or its allies on crucial EU infrastructure. I'm happy to see the Finns searching and stopping them, but we need to be serious about our adversary that keeps threatening to nuke major European cities off the map
- throw310822 2y ago
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  - medo-bear 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - Kbelicius 2y ago
    There is no logic in your statement. If you are even considering something done by Ukraine to be a starting point of these actions then you would have to consider Russia as the initiator of all of this, since, you know they started the war and are constantly destroying Ukrainian infrastructure. Thus, if you were a man of reason, you either wouldn't written something as stupid or you would have written "After the countless committed by Russia?".
    - throw310822 2y ago
      I was just observing that Ukraine committed a blatant and extremely serious act of sabotage against European infrastructure- most probably with the help of the US. You can't be indignant for one sabotage and ignore the other. Everyone is responsible for their own actions- otherwise you get into an endless spiral of "I did that just because you did the other thing first, so it's ultimately your fault".
      - Ninn 2y ago
        So if everyone is responsible for their own actions, why are you including Ukraine in this context? After all this is in isolation Russia committing (yet another) crime. You are the one picking and choosing here.
just_steve_h 2y ago
[flagged]
paul7986 2y ago
So Russia has it's signs now on seizing Estonia?
- Arn_Thor 2y ago
  Always did
  - Animats 2y ago
    Russia annoying both Finland and Estonia may be unwise. Look at the geography. There's only 20km of water between Helsinki and Tallinn. If those countries act together they can cut off sea access to St. Petersburg. Or just slow things down by inspecting every ship for cable-cutting capability. NATO has already stepped up patrols in the Baltic Sea.[1] Right now, Russia doesn't have all that much military capability near St. Petersburg.[2] Some units are off at the Ukraine war. The Baltic Fleet is weaker than ever. There's a "Free Ingria" movement that wants to make all of Leningrad Oblast a separate country. It's not going anywhere without outside support. It might get some. [1] https://apnews.com/article/finland-estonia-cable-undersea-russia-sabotage-nato-6460b68ab5236d9892551867b024b0a0 https://apnews.com/article/finland-estonia-cable-undersea-ru... [2] https://gfsis.org.ge/maps/russian-military-forces https://gfsis.org.ge/maps/russian-military-forces
    - Zanfa 2y ago
      > Look at the geography. There's only 20km of water between Helsinki and Tallinn. If those countries act together they can cut off sea access to St. Petersburg. Closer to 90km. If it was 20, all ships to/from St Petersburg would have to pass through Estonian/Finnish territorial waters and we wouldn’t have questions around jurisdiction.
      - yread 2y ago
        it's 38km from Naissaar to first Finnish islands, and the international waters there are wider than they should thanks to all the wars that were fought over it.
    - 2y ago
tryauuum 2y ago
some extra knowldedge from my colleagues - apparently china owns some cables in baltic sea, see the CITIC company - one of their cables was also cut during recent events
ajuc 2y ago
It's been long time coming, Russia needs to be dealt with. Give Ukraine a couple hundred longer-range missiles, let them attack the oil fields, powerplants, refineries etc. Seize the shadow fleet tankers. Sanction Russia for real. It will be cheaper and safer than the alternative. If we did this 2 years ago this war would be over by now and hundreds of thousands of people wouldn't die for no reason. Every month of delay makes the costs higher and larger-scale war more likely.
- zkid18 2y ago
  I wonder who you are referring to when you say "we"
  - dagenleg 2y ago
    I think the poster refers to NATO countries. Considering you are a Russian citizen, it's safe to say you're not included in this "we". Although frankly I think you would also benefit in the end.
- trhway 2y ago
  >Give Ukraine a couple hundred longer-range missiles while it would make a lot of pain to Russia, it wouldn't change the strategic situation. Russia is ok with taking the pain (more precisely Putin and his ilk are ok with subjecting Russia to the pain) You need strategic hits, a knock-out, making it physically impossible for them to continue as it is the only language they currently understand. So, for example, Russia has like 10K of S-300/400 missiles. That is key part of the strategic defense of Russia (notice how Russia recently had a hysteric meltdown when just one drone hit their strategic defense radar thus slightly impacting their defense against ICBMs/etc. and also notice that just a drone was able to hit such a valuable target) Ukraine can build several thousands of large drones (cheap, simple, like say German V-1, can be built for less than $5000 each including modern navigation, Germans built 20K of V-1 in year in just one factory inside the mountain) and fire them to the targets in Russia choosing routes, altitudes and targets such that Russia would have to use S-300/400 instead of say shorter range BUK/Tor/Pantsir (Russia is big and most of the coverage is naturally by the S-300/400). After several thousands of such drones Russia would be put into impossible situation - either to let those large drones (original V-1 had 850kg warhead, ie. double that of Tomahawk/Storm Shadow/SCALP) fly and hit the targets or to run out of strategic air defense.
indulona 2y ago
[flagged]
- Terr_ 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity I mean, it's also sort of weird that Russia would be called out in the beginnings of a sneak attack, publicly deny it to the world, and then do it anyway. Or spill radioactive poisons on the streets of London in a a baroque assassination of a British citizen. Or try to import ground troops from frickin' North Korea. Weird stories do happen.
- kergonath 2y ago
  And yet it happened. Go figure.
- matkoniecz 2y ago
  Are you aware of repeated cable cuts and damage to pipelines in Baltic Sea? Are you claiming that all these severed themself or purely due non-malicious incompetence?
- gitaarik 2y ago
  So what is your theory?
- tempestn 2y ago
  Always curious when I see comments like these whether they're from literal Russian trolls. Or if not, then what exactly brought the person to a place where they will deny basic reality in order to show support for a brutal, expansionist dictatorship for.. some reason.
  - zo1 2y ago
    It's very easy for us to doubt these things because they suspiciously and conveniently fit the "anti-russia" narrative. From there, a simple belief in the corruptibility and money-influence in media makes us question the story. And no amount of "oh it's hard to get hundreds of people to maintain a conspiracy" will reign it back. And I'm not a paid shill. The above is just a reality of the media landscape and a lot of people's mistrust in it and of the west in general.
safgasCVS 2y ago
It took less than a day to determine it was Russia and not only that but this specific ship that cut the cable. Yet years after the largest industrial sabotage and environmental disaster in recent memory (Nord Stream 2) absolutely no investigations into who caused that one and that story has been completely forgotten
- Hamuko 2y ago
  Officials are becoming more and more alert to these kinds of situations. Newnew Polar Bear managed to escape the scene of the crime without any issues, Yi Peng 3 managed to escape the scene of the crime but was later detained in international waters but not boarded without Chinese officials, and now Eagle S was caught red-handed and boarded immediately.
- connicpu 2y ago
  What? No investigation? This is pretty close to the top of the Wikipedia article on the matter: The Swedish and Danish investigations were closed in February 2024 without identifying those responsible,[16][17] but the German investigation is still ongoing.[18] In August 2024 media reported that in June German authorities issued a European arrest warrant for a Ukrainian national suspected of having used the sailing yacht Andromeda together with two others to sabotage the Nord Stream pipeline.[19] As of June 2024 the suspect is still at large, having reportedly left the EU for Ukraine.[20] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_pipelines_sabotage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_pipelines_sabotage
- ttkk 2y ago
  This ship slowed down noticeably before destroying the cables so officials were quick to react. Also, not too long time ago another sabotage ship broke stuff as well so this was probably expected to happen again. Really does not have anything to do with Nord Stream 2 since it was different water areas and methods. But that whataboutism surely gives clue where your message comes from.
bawolff 2y ago
What's the point of doing something like this? Its not very sneaky, they got caught rather easily. The damage is annoying, but deep sea cables have problems from time to time, its not like it created critical downtime or is unrepairable damage. Is this just russia trying to give some sort of warning? A sort of, you have lots of exposed infrastructure, if you keep calling my bluff i might start going after it for real-zies?
- realusername 2y ago
  It's the maximum Russia can do without direct NATO repercussions basically. If they could kill a top european politician, they would have done it already. What protects against that is NATO firepower.
  - Sabinus 2y ago
    I wonder what the reaction would have been if the assassination plot on the Rehinmetall CEO had succeeded?
    - realusername 2y ago
      Difficult to say but I'm guessing some kind of military response with adequate previous warning would have happened. There's no way NATO would have let slipped an assassination like this, this would open up the path to more assassinations if unanswered.
- victorbjorklund 2y ago
  Slowly escalate without anything happening when people get used to it.
  - xeonmc 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - seszett 2y ago
morkalork 2y ago
Why aren't pirates and saboteurs hanged? If certain nation states are intent on returning to past, might as well indulge them.
nextworddev 2y ago
China also got caught doing something similar a month ago https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/chinese-ship-suspected-of-deliberately-dragging-anchor-for-100-miles-to-cut-baltic-cables-395f65d1 https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/chinese-ship-suspected-of-d...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- gs17 2y ago
  That's still considered to be primarily Russia's doing, with an interesting new detail: > On 17 December 2024 the Russian Navy sea rescue tug Yevgeniy Churov[36] was reported to have approached the anchored Yi Peng 3, passing it at very low speed and with its own AIS transmitter turned off. The next day, investigators were finally allowed to board.
pseudony 2y ago
At some point I'd intimate that if these ships keep "accidentally" destroying undersea installations, then I'd start "accidentally" sinking them. Enough is enough, screw Russia
- trhway 2y ago
  some people in the suitable places are probably already thinking that way - just few days ago a Russian military cargo ship suddenly had explosion and sank in Mediterranean https://en.defence-ua.com/news/sunken_russian_ship_ursa_major_carried_valuable_equipment_for_kalibr_missile_loading-13003.html https://en.defence-ua.com/news/sunken_russian_ship_ursa_majo... "As for the equipment on board, the Navy spokesman noted that it was "quite expensive, sophisticated, foreign-made, and that russians do not do not produce such items." "To understand the importance of this equipment is I remind you that for six months they were unable to load Kalibr missiles in Novorossiysk due to the lack of such equipment," Pletenchuk emphasized."
  - fnqi8ckfek 2y ago
    [dead]
- AYBABTME 2y ago
  There seems to be Russian ships accidentally sinking as well, these days.
- yencabulator 2y ago
  We really don't need all that pollution in that particular small sea, thank you very much. Confiscated, most likely found lacking insurance, and auctioned off to fund EU defense.
  - switch007 2y ago
    Imagine if Churchill was swayed by a green brigade and just surrendered because of the potential pollution...
marvin-hansen 2y ago
Seriously, confiscate the ship, charge everyone on board with espionage, give maximum jail sentence, and close all maritime corridors going through NATO territory for Russia. Putin always tests for a response, and if there is none, he doubles down. Russia violated Turkey’s airspace only once, the jet was shot down immediately, and, save to say, Putin was on the phone with Ankara to prevent an all out escalation with a NATO member that can trigger article 5 at any time for self defense after an apparent aggression. Turned out, no more airspace violations happened again. As long as the West fails to respond with strength, Putin will never stop.
- ordinary 2y ago
  > Russia violated Turkey’s airspace only once, the jet was shot down immediately, and, save to say, Putin was on the phone with Ankara to prevent an all out escalation with a NATO member that can trigger article 5 at any time for self defense after an apparent aggression. Turned out, no more airspace violations happened again. I was on the same page as you for a long time, but aggressively defending your airspace also increases risk of collateral damage, leading to, for example, your military shooting down Azeri passenger jets. Or Malaysian ones. Or Iranian ones (to name one not committed by Russia).
- marshray 2y ago
  As I recall, Russia was making a habit of cutting across Turkey's airspace and they were officially warned before the shoot-down. I may be misremembering.
- gregoriol 2y ago
  "charge everyone on board with espionage, give maximum jail sentence" won't help: most of the crew has no choice in those operations, some might not even know what is going on. They also have dozens of ships that can do such damage, so no way to scare them by seizing or jailing one. The only good way would be to close the path.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
mozzieman 2y ago
Keep the ship for every cable. Should stop it quite quick.
CrzyLngPwd 2y ago
[flagged]
- bilekas 2y ago
  The Kremlin is not Russia. There are some extremely valid reasons for that. It's not like everyone just decided to not appreciate poor old Russia. The Kremlin's behaviour is ridiculous and shouldn't be accepted in Europe. Russoophobia is just another speaking point of the Kremlin that you're feeding into. Objectively they are in the wrong.
- c16 2y ago
  Cutting cables and having spy equipment onboard doesn’t really make it Russophobic though? It’s fact. Similarily, spoofing gps from Kaliningrad such that boats routinely end up in fields isn’t being offensive, it’s once again showing that Russia is messing with critical infrastructure. https://bsky.app/profile/auonsson.bsky.social/post/3lecxmzbzvk22 https://bsky.app/profile/auonsson.bsky.social/post/3lecxmzbz... One can state damning facts without being offensive to a people. This is such a case.
  - CrzyLngPwd 2y ago
    Ah, so there is no conclusion that russia has cut any cables, just speculation, and last I checked having radio listening equipment wasn't illegal. So, there is that. Is there an issue with Russia spoofing GPS? They are at war. Ukraine does it over their territory and I imagine you are okay with it, and so does Israel, who is also at war. Are you suggesting that you would be outraged if your country was at war and spoofed GPS? Maybe if you think more you might be more open about why these things happen. I don't mean to offend you, but I am okay if I do.
- sunaookami 2y ago
  [flagged]
- Applejinx 2y ago
  It's interesting to watch Russia's posters beginning to get some pushback. My experience is that HN has suffered somewhat Reddit-like conditions, where if you criticized Russia's war on its neighbors and the West, you got botted. That sort of thing only works when it's not observed, and it looks like Hacker News is starting to protect itself against malicious actions, as are Russia's physical neighbors.
antman 2y ago
Ok so maybe it wasn't a sabotage but a botched attempt to install surveillance equipment on the cables? Or else why would it carry all these evidence
- esskay 2y ago
  Estlink 2 is a power cable, not data.
tuukkah 2y ago
The title needs the word 'earlier': "as recently as seven months ago". Otherwise, this is conflating separate missions that used the same ship.
lilianadavis32 2y ago
[dead]
devit 2y ago
Isn't the tanker much more expensive than repairing the cable damage? (and Russia has much lower GDP than the EU) Seems like they can't play this game for long.
- smallmancontrov 2y ago
  They are used to playing against a spineless opponent, which in theory could have gone on for quite a long time. In this case, I'm glad to see it didn't.
  - euroderf 2y ago
    Has a value been announced for the cargo that has been confiscated ?
- aljgz 2y ago
  The total economic damage of cutting cables can be much higher.
rnaghl 2y ago
I have no doubt that there was spying equipment. That is assumed. Curious that this story is only run by Lloydslist and now Breitbart of all places has picked it up. It seems that someone has discovered tech people as willing amplifiers for war mongering (as chickenhawks, naturally, they won't be in the trenches).
- ttkk 2y ago
  Don't know about the linked site and its reputation. Found it myself quite clickbaity with the spying equipment twist. Here is more in-depth timeline kind of article from Estonia [1] and would recommend that instead. I guess this is just local news in the world scale amidst current global events and you must find local source for any quality. Surely it has been covered a lot here in Finland nationally because of rather new kind of hybrid warfare escalation - response event. [1] https://www-err-ee.translate.goog/1609561714/soome-hoidis-ara-ka-estlink-1-lohkumise-ja-balticconnectori-uue-lohkumise?_x_tr_sl=et&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-err-ee.translate.goog/1609561714/soome-hoidis-ar...
- NicuCalcea 2y ago
  Throwaway accounts accusing anyone of amplifying anything is quite funny.
largbae 2y ago
Why do these cable cutting ships leave AIS on? Is the risk of collision so great that they would rather document their crimes for all to see?
- ninjaoxygen 2y ago
  The act of turning AIS off can attract unwanted attention (higher resolution local satellite monitoring), less likely if you are entering waters where piracy is common and many vessels disable AIS. If a vessel turns AIS off then cuts the cable, but their position is known by other means, they will be giving up plausible deniability.
- Etheryte 2y ago
  Every ship in the Baltic sea is monitored and accounted for at all times, if your beacon suddenly disappears you're practically screaming look at me.
IYasha 2y ago
Reading comments on this article makes me want to wash my eyes.
syngrog66 2y ago
The EU should treat Putin's Russia like the aggressive evil predator and danger it so clearly is. And they should assume the US under Trump cannot be trusted. They must assume he's Putin's lackey. I'm American so it pains me to say it OTOH I don't want to see disaster to happen among our European allies.
euroderf 2y ago
In terms of international law and international maritime law, this is a fascinating case. Without directly applicable precedent, an actor does what it can/must within existing law. Finland has always been very conservative in such matters, and you can be sure that they thought long and hard about what their public legal position will be before they boarded the ship. The Russians will be conservative here too, because obviously the existing body of law has worked in their favor, giving them space to operate a "black fleet" - and to use it to execute sabotage. Or so they thought...
- Permik 2y ago
  In this most recent case the permission to board was very cut and dry as the vessel moved into Finland's territorial sea.
  - euroderf 2y ago
    Reports from Yle (Finnish state broadcaster) and VOA say the ship was boarded in Finland's EEZ and then escorted INTO Finnish territorial waters.
    - sampo 2y ago
      > the ship was boarded in Finland's EEZ and then escorted INTO Finnish territorial waters You have misread. At least here in Q2 (https://yle.fi/a/74-20133775 https://yle.fi/a/74-20133775) Yle writes that first the ship was asked to move to Finnish territorial waters, and only then it was boarded.
      - euroderf 2y ago
        > Nyt Suomen viranomaiset saivat kaapelivaurioista epäillyn aluksen kääntymään Suomen aluevesille Hmm, they "got it to turn". Ahem I wonder what THAT means, and I wonder if there are recordings of the communications.
- piombisallow 2y ago
  I believe the punishment for piracy is hanging?
lakomen 2y ago
Sure it was Propaganda bullshit

590 points by nabla9 2y ago

I found a video that has lot of information about the cable severing ship: Tanker Eagle S Seized by Finland for Severing Cables Between Finland & Estonia | Is it a Spy Ship? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy27qiKVCSI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy27qiKVCSI

aaron695 2y ago

[dead]

mulmen 2y ago

> The hi-tech equipment on board was abnormal for a merchant ship and consumed more power from the ship’s generator, leading to repeated blackouts, a source familiar with the vessel who provided commercial maritime services to it as recently as seven months ago. Am I having a stroke or is this article translated? I'm not a Russia defender but this is comically inept if true. Why commit such brazen sabotage with a spy ship?

reactordev 2y ago
Ships are often balanced between providing power and consuming it. Excess power gen is wasted fuel. Excess power draw is a blackout so it’s very typical of a ships captain or owner to max out power consumption while minimizing power generation. Its a cost index. I do this on my own sailboat with a solar power source and battery setup.
- applied_heat 2y ago
  Diesel generators simply use less fuel if there is less load than the maximum.
  - GenerocUsername 2y ago
    But it's not perfectly linear, and as should get bigger, the incentive to optimize grows
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Not exactly. A diesel engine uses less fuel at 80% load than 50%. At maximum load it uses the most fuel but in general as load increases the engine gets more efficient and so the calculations are weird. Note that generators need to run at constant rpm to provide the correct ac frequency. Your car has gears so that it can run at lower rpm at low loads and so you won't see the same effect.
    - giantrobot 2y ago
      An independent diesel generator could have been loaded onto the ship as easily as the spy equipment. It was a tanker, there was plenty of room for a genset and its own fuel. Then the ship's power plant wouldn't be taxed at all.
      - bluGill 2y ago
        Generally the people ordering radios don't think about that. They are used to land where you have more power to the building than you could possibly use.
      - reactordev 2y ago
        Then you have radio equipment in addition to an independent diesel generator and fuel to explain… Yes it was a tanker. The bigger the ship doesn’t mean it has more people or more power generation like a cruise ship. A tanker has a crew of 4 plus captain, maybe?
        giantrobot 2y ago
        You've got the spying equipment to explain if boarded. An extra generator is hardly a concern. If anything an auxiliary generator can be explained as a backup/replacement for the ship's mandated backup generator.
- slow_typist 2y ago
  There are many parts on a ship of that size which need power and are critical for safety. That is not comparable to leisure craft.
  - watt 2y ago
    Thank you for your insight. Hard to believe nobody else thought of it before.
    - Normal_gaussian 2y ago
      Whilst basic, its a critical and valid point. It is being made on a forum where shipping, ships, and related engineering issues are not well known (at all). It does lead to questions about how backup and failover power work on large ships. Secondary generation? Central batteries? Per device battery failover?
      - pas 2y ago
        Batteries, yes. And there's an emergency generator that runs on diesel (big ships run on "bunker oil") which can be started with batteries or manually. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_Y2VNS5TFFY https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_Y2VNS5TFFY (this one with a hydraulic hand pump) https://marineengineeringonline.com/emergency-generator-on-ships/ https://marineengineeringonline.com/emergency-generator-on-s...
ein0p 2y ago
I'm having a hard time believing that "a few suitcases" of equipment would strain the generator of a large ship. There's also no way _three_ countries (one of which is a member of NATO, further straining credibility of the article) would be using the same super secret spy equipment.
- 4ndrewl 2y ago
  Are you having a hard time believing this _because_ of your experience in such maritime matters or _despite_ of it?
- asdff 2y ago
  The article said “huge portable suitcases” which in my mind went to those giant rock concert equipment suitcases with caster wheels. And then the article is talking about how these ships are ancient and in poor repair. The power was probably going on and off long before they overloaded it.
  - AYBABTME 2y ago
    But 20y isn't ancient, as far as I can tell?
    - dietr1ch 2y ago
      I guess it's long enough for poor maintenance to let salty water do its thing. AFAIK even cars sent across the Pacific show damage when they arrive and special care is put to coat them.
      - postalrat 2y ago
        No. It's a clear lie.
  - martin8412 2y ago
    They're called flight cases :)
- 2y ago
codezero 2y ago
Because they’ve been getting away with it unchecked for decades.
magicalhippo 2y ago
> Why commit such brazen sabotage with a spy ship? That part seemed odd to me too. Spy folks aren't the ones conducting sabotage? If one division has installed apy equipment then surely they don't want that fact plastered all over documents, so perhaps the sabotage guys just saw a suitable ship in the harbor and presuaded/replaced the crew? Doesn't look good either way though.
- clort 2y ago
  The way I read it, this is reportage from a person who worked with the ship about things which happened some months ago. There is nothing to say this equipment was still on board. > They said no further equipment returned to the ship after it was offloaded for analysis, to their knowledge
  - magicalhippo 2y ago
    Good catch, missed that bit.
Terr_ 2y ago
> Why commit such brazen sabotage with a spy ship? Perhaps it wasn't brazen sabotage, but incompetent attempts to attach something to the lines? Or conflicting agendas trickling down to the same ship, where the left-hand of "go cause some mayhem" didn't know what the right-hand of "collect signals intelligence" was already doing with that asset.
- fi358 2y ago
  I don't think it was incompetent attempts to attach something to the lines. It severed 4 data data cables and electricity cable called Estlink 2. If it hadn't been stopped, it would have severed also Estlink 1 within half and hour later perhaps also Balticconnector gas pipe. About year ago Balticconnector gas pipe was already damaged by a Chinese ship, which had been dragging the anchor for long time in a very suspicious manner: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balticconnector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balticconnector And again in August several data cables were severed by a Chinese ship. According to one analysis, that time they may have dragged the anchor for 400 kilometers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB-vEp3wr-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB-vEp3wr-0 BTW, Russia seems to have for years spend time finding out the routes of sea cables and perhaps also spied them or prepared some kind of sabotage: The global internet is powered by vast undersea cables. But they're vulnerable. https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/25/asia/internet-undersea-cables-intl-hnk/ https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/25/asia/internet-undersea-ca... Ukraine war: The Russian ships accused of North Sea sabotage https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65309687 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65309687 Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action...
  - cinntaile 2y ago
    > Russia seems to have for years spend time finding out the routes of sea cables and perhaps also spied them or prepared some kind of sabotage: The cable positions are public info, they don't need to spend time finding out where they are.
    - fi358 2y ago
      Is the exact positions public info or is it just crude positions? BTW, if the exact cable positions is public info, where is it available?
ajuc 2y ago
Why not? Let me remind you the Russian capital ship of the Black Sea fleet during this war had most of it's self-defense systems inactive and half of them broken and was destroyed with 2 missiles. And the only Russian carrier - Kuznetsov - is famous for sailing everywhere with tug boats in escort because its engines are broken more often than working :) Russian fleet's second name is "comically inept".
- cpursley 2y ago
  Carriers are great at projecting power against poor people but sitting ducks against a near peer. And you probably know about the UKs recent propulsion system boondoggle… Anyways, they just launched this very potent sub yesterday as well as several other hypersonic carrying boats this year (4 subs, 7 surface ships - all fake according to Reddit): - https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/russian-navy-receives-fifth-yasen-m-class-nuclear-submarine-arkhangelsk/ https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/russian-navy-receives-fif...
  - ajuc 2y ago
    Oh they are always great in the press releases :) And it's not like the ships are badly designed. The Kuznetsov sister ship that was a casino for a while and now is Chinese works perfectly well. The problem with Russian navy is lack of maintenance, total disregard of safety and procedures, 0 fucks given about human life, uneducated, drunken crews and widespread corruption. I recommend reading about K-429 - a nuclear submarine that sunk not once but twice. First time because it was ordered to do exercises while the hull was in maintenance. Despite protests of the crew. Second time in dock during repairs after it got recovered. Worker negligence apparently. Fun fact - it's not the only Russian nuclear submarine that participated in 2 disasters.
    - cpursley 2y ago
      Where do you think those big missile barrages are coming from - Black Sea dolphins? You clearly spend too much time on reddit - sure, their carrier, Mosvka and that sub were ancient. But their recent boats are capable and pack a lot of offensive punch. One of their new corvettes could probably disable a carrier battle group. Only fools and immature people play the "the other side is incompetent and has shitty gear" game. I can assure you, the Pentagon and other Western militaries take it all very seriously.
rasz 2y ago
When you are evil as F the brightest minds tend to disappear leaving you with yes men and idiots. As Ukrainians eloquently put it way back in 2022: "We are very lucky they're so fucking stupid" https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tdj65n/were_very_lucky_theyre_so_fucking_stupid/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tdj65n/were_very_l... In the year of our lord 2024 russians are assaulting using Mad Max modified Ladas and push bikes, its no longer a meme! USSR stocks of armor are finally running out. 27 Oct 2024 'THE ARMOR RAN OUT - THEY WENT IN PICK-UPS. They reach the trenches and the assault ends.' - Combat group K-2 54th brigade https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uy2KpKj0t8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uy2KpKj0t8 A Russian Assault Group Riding In Pickup Trucks And Flying The Soviet Flag Got ‘Special Attention’ From Ukrainian Forces https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/12/21/a-russian-assault-group-riding-in-pickup-trucks-and-flying-the-soviet-flag-got-special-attention-from-ukrainian-forces/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/12/21/a-russian-a...
- amelius 2y ago
  They still have Mach 5 rockets that the US cannot defend against.
  - dralley 2y ago
    Patriot batteries have shot down every missile type that isn't an IRBM like Oreshnik, and those are closer to Mach 11 than Mach 5. Kinzhal and Zircon have been at least semi-reliably shot down. Iskander is very reliablly shot down. The main issue is that Ukraine just doesn't have enough Patriot batteries to defend the whole country, so the Russians stopped shooting where the air defense is. They also use a bunch of S-300s as ballistic missiles (a secondary capability to their primary role as air defense) but primarily against cities that don't have air defense. But they're too inaccurate and inexpensive for the Ukrainians to bother attempting to intercept even if they had enough of the appropriate air defenses.
    - mountainstar 2y ago
      "Patriot batteries have shot down every missile type that isn't an IRBM like Oreshnik, and those are closer to Mach 11 than Mach 5." Keep lying lol
themgt 2y ago
The article is terribly written. It ends with: The transmitting and receiving devices were used to record all radio frequencies, and upon reaching Russia were offloaded for analysis. ... They said no further equipment returned to the ship after it was offloaded for analysis, to their knowledge, but other devices were placed on another related tanker, Swiftsea Rider. What seems implied is that the ship was previously used for spying back in June, then the spy equipment was offloaded from the ship and it was later repurposed to cut the cables.
deleted 2y ago
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deleted 2y ago
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newsclues 2y ago
It’s not a spy ship. It’s a ship, that was used for spying. Not a special ship built for spying. So it’s just an asset at sea that can be covertly used and disposed if discovered. It’s a burner, something to use and discard when it’s no longer useful. The spy gear is on another ship and the anchor trick can be played again
Hilift 2y ago
Russia has many of these types of boats. They are inexpensive. The "equipment" is portable in suitcases. There is a lot of marine traffic in the Baltic Sea. They may have thought they could do it during the holidays and move the equipment to another ship nearby without detection. Or, a Russian port is very close, perhaps they thought they could take off and make it to Russian waters before Finland intercepted them. Check out the route on marinetraffic.com. The cable is between Helsinki and Tallinn, St. Petersburg Russia (the "destination") is about 200 km away to the east.
kruxigt 2y ago
[dead]
simonh 2y ago
I cite in evidence of Russian ineptness the entire history of their invasion of Ukraine. Given their vast and extensive advantages at the beginning of the invasion, if they were even vaguely competent they really would have been holding a parade in Kyiv within a few months. A competent military wouldn’t have lost their flagship, or let Ukraine counter-invade taking thousands of square kilometres of Russian territory. A competent regime wouldn’t have dismissed US warnings of an imminent terrorist attack on a specific music venue in Moscow and just let it happen. Loading up a tanker with power hungry kit it’s not able to properly support without discussing the idea with the crew, while threatening the crew if they don’t keep quiet, is par for the course.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  It extends for literal centuries before the current Ukraine debacle. The country has been a mindless lumbering brute for most of history.
- ANewFormation 2y ago
  Before the invasion Ukraine had a total military force (including reserves) of 1.2 million backed by sizable numbers of highly motivated and heavily armed 'nationalist' forces. Since 2014 the West had been gradually arming Ukraine and various cities like Bakhmut were essentially fortified citadels enabling a defensive force to pose extreme resistance. There was 0 chance Ukraine was going to just flop over. Iraq and Afghanistan were humble villages by contrast - one which we lost to, and the other which our 'victory' amounted to bombing the government then hiding out in tiny little ultra fortified 'green zones' while waving a victory flag. In both cases with the wars dragged on for decades. Now imagine if Russia had decided to jump in one of those invasions and start shipping hundreds of billions of dollars of weapons to them, providing intelligence, and so on. Russia obviously just thought they were ambushing Ukraine and could get some agreement for them to not join NATO without a real war. Then the West decided to get involved, similarly thinking they were ambushing Russia and that the first sight of HIMARS or a Panther tank would send the Russian army scattering. Everybody was wrong, so we got a real war that nobody wanted.
  - 2y ago
dspillett 2y ago
> but this is comically inept if true Comically inept does sometimes seem to be the country's MO, due to corruption and miscommunication (the latter often deliberate to hide the former) between the various levels of control. People get away with it for quite some time, until a mistake/accident too big to successfully cover up occurs or there is other reason for an audit from above, at which point some are removed from their positions (often to particularly unpleasant penal arrangements, or perhaps being moved on via a defenestration "accident", as an example to others) and things improve for a while. This is often the case in other autocratic or anocratic countries too, but it seems particularly endemic in Russia (perhaps due to its wide geographic spread?). > Why commit such brazen sabotage with a spy ship? As others have said, other reasons of the article are that the ship has recently been used as a ship for spying, but equipment relating to that was not present at the time of the sabotage mission it was intercepted during.
- panarky 2y ago
  When dissidents and journalists "fall out of windows", and when enemies of the state drink polonium tea, the obviousness isn't due to comic ineptness. It's obvious for a reason. They want the world to know. The obviousness isn't ineptness, it's a brazen display of power.
  - dspillett 2y ago
    I'm not suggesting the ineptness is present at the top or in key organs of the system, particularly parts responsible for enforcement and espionage. It naturally forms in the wider system through layers of control with people at each point doing the minimum required (well, the minimum they think that they can get away with) and creaming off any remaining resources. The obviousness of reactions from the near top when enacted, against those that are too close to failures or deliberately act against the system, while often difficult to directly link to the top, yes, is very deliberate, and generally not ineptly executed. In fact the individuals further down are often not really inept: they are can very good at doing what must be done with what little resource filters down while benefiting from what they can cream off, passing actual responsibility downwards, and keeping apparent responsibility for themselves (and their circles) when things go well. The comical ineptness is an emergent behaviour of the overall system that results from these behaviours. This is in stark contrast to some other regimes, for instance the UK under BoJo the Clown and his next couple of replacements where the ineptitude was at times frighteningly and obviously present at and near the top, or over the longer term things like the post office scandal & cover-up which has dragged on for so long through an apparent endemic immorality rather than localised manipulation at each level.
ghjfrdghibt 2y ago
You need to read both Red Notice, and Freezing Order by Bill Browder. Truly eye opening, and in line with this type of thing.
- user432678 2y ago
  Got me interested, if you had time only for one, which one of two would you recommend?
lenkite 2y ago
[flagged]
- nobunaga 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - lenkite 2y ago
    Aaah..the usual brain-dead and brain-washed response. Eyerolling and tiresome quips about Putin and Moscow. Never been to Moscow nor Russia and I don't have their Visa, so not sure how I can even "return" to it.
    - nobunaga 2y ago
      Are you referring to your statement about how russia is innocent and is being targeted for no reason since they never invaded another country and there are many sources for their attempts at sabotage and even assasinations, as braindead? Yes, you are indeed speaking braindead comments. Just re-read what you wrote, and then think about the events of the last 2 years. Try harder comrad.
      - lenkite 2y ago
        No such statements/claims were made. Congratulations sir! You have won an award at the "Strawman Argument". Just re-read what you wrote and then refresh your knowledge of basic logical fallacies. Try harder at reading comprehension.
- phatfish 2y ago
  Polite concern, check. Um, it's the US causing all the problems ACTUALLY, check. Lost faith in western media, check. It can't be Russia because it doesn't make sense guys! Check. "Time will tell", check.
- ttkk 2y ago
  [flagged]
lm28469 2y ago
> I'm not a Russia defender but this is comically inept if true. I mean it's the 1000+ day of the 3 day special military operation, we've seen Russians with ww2 era rifles and gear, ww2 era tanks, &c. Being inept is the only thing the Russian army seems to achieve consistently.
sandworm101 2y ago
Power on a ship isn't like power on land. It may be that this gear was all on one phase of the 3-phase generator output, which would make sense if this was radio equipment. Overloading a particular phase/circuit with unplanned-for equipment can quickly trip switches and other safety system, cascading into a blackout.
belorn 2y ago
The strategy of the shadow fleet has historically been about using disposable and cheap commercial ships for dual purpose of military and economical operations, with plausible deniability as a bonus. Ducktaping spy equipment onto barely operating merchant ships fits perfectly for this purpose. It is the peace time version of the merchant raider.

tetrisgm 2y ago

Another sabotage by Russia or its allies on crucial EU infrastructure. I'm happy to see the Finns searching and stopping them, but we need to be serious about our adversary that keeps threatening to nuke major European cities off the map

throw310822 2y ago
[flagged]
- medo-bear 2y ago
  [flagged]
- Kbelicius 2y ago
  There is no logic in your statement. If you are even considering something done by Ukraine to be a starting point of these actions then you would have to consider Russia as the initiator of all of this, since, you know they started the war and are constantly destroying Ukrainian infrastructure. Thus, if you were a man of reason, you either wouldn't written something as stupid or you would have written "After the countless committed by Russia?".
  - throw310822 2y ago
    I was just observing that Ukraine committed a blatant and extremely serious act of sabotage against European infrastructure- most probably with the help of the US. You can't be indignant for one sabotage and ignore the other. Everyone is responsible for their own actions- otherwise you get into an endless spiral of "I did that just because you did the other thing first, so it's ultimately your fault".
    - Ninn 2y ago
      So if everyone is responsible for their own actions, why are you including Ukraine in this context? After all this is in isolation Russia committing (yet another) crime. You are the one picking and choosing here.

just_steve_h 2y ago

[flagged]

paul7986 2y ago

So Russia has it's signs now on seizing Estonia?

Arn_Thor 2y ago
Always did
- Animats 2y ago
  Russia annoying both Finland and Estonia may be unwise. Look at the geography. There's only 20km of water between Helsinki and Tallinn. If those countries act together they can cut off sea access to St. Petersburg. Or just slow things down by inspecting every ship for cable-cutting capability. NATO has already stepped up patrols in the Baltic Sea.[1] Right now, Russia doesn't have all that much military capability near St. Petersburg.[2] Some units are off at the Ukraine war. The Baltic Fleet is weaker than ever. There's a "Free Ingria" movement that wants to make all of Leningrad Oblast a separate country. It's not going anywhere without outside support. It might get some. [1] https://apnews.com/article/finland-estonia-cable-undersea-russia-sabotage-nato-6460b68ab5236d9892551867b024b0a0 https://apnews.com/article/finland-estonia-cable-undersea-ru... [2] https://gfsis.org.ge/maps/russian-military-forces https://gfsis.org.ge/maps/russian-military-forces
  - Zanfa 2y ago
    > Look at the geography. There's only 20km of water between Helsinki and Tallinn. If those countries act together they can cut off sea access to St. Petersburg. Closer to 90km. If it was 20, all ships to/from St Petersburg would have to pass through Estonian/Finnish territorial waters and we wouldn’t have questions around jurisdiction.
    - yread 2y ago
      it's 38km from Naissaar to first Finnish islands, and the international waters there are wider than they should thanks to all the wars that were fought over it.
  - 2y ago

tryauuum 2y ago

some extra knowldedge from my colleagues - apparently china owns some cables in baltic sea, see the CITIC company - one of their cables was also cut during recent events

ajuc 2y ago

It's been long time coming, Russia needs to be dealt with. Give Ukraine a couple hundred longer-range missiles, let them attack the oil fields, powerplants, refineries etc. Seize the shadow fleet tankers. Sanction Russia for real. It will be cheaper and safer than the alternative. If we did this 2 years ago this war would be over by now and hundreds of thousands of people wouldn't die for no reason. Every month of delay makes the costs higher and larger-scale war more likely.

zkid18 2y ago
I wonder who you are referring to when you say "we"
- dagenleg 2y ago
  I think the poster refers to NATO countries. Considering you are a Russian citizen, it's safe to say you're not included in this "we". Although frankly I think you would also benefit in the end.
trhway 2y ago
>Give Ukraine a couple hundred longer-range missiles while it would make a lot of pain to Russia, it wouldn't change the strategic situation. Russia is ok with taking the pain (more precisely Putin and his ilk are ok with subjecting Russia to the pain) You need strategic hits, a knock-out, making it physically impossible for them to continue as it is the only language they currently understand. So, for example, Russia has like 10K of S-300/400 missiles. That is key part of the strategic defense of Russia (notice how Russia recently had a hysteric meltdown when just one drone hit their strategic defense radar thus slightly impacting their defense against ICBMs/etc. and also notice that just a drone was able to hit such a valuable target) Ukraine can build several thousands of large drones (cheap, simple, like say German V-1, can be built for less than $5000 each including modern navigation, Germans built 20K of V-1 in year in just one factory inside the mountain) and fire them to the targets in Russia choosing routes, altitudes and targets such that Russia would have to use S-300/400 instead of say shorter range BUK/Tor/Pantsir (Russia is big and most of the coverage is naturally by the S-300/400). After several thousands of such drones Russia would be put into impossible situation - either to let those large drones (original V-1 had 850kg warhead, ie. double that of Tomahawk/Storm Shadow/SCALP) fly and hit the targets or to run out of strategic air defense.

indulona 2y ago

[flagged]

Terr_ 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity I mean, it's also sort of weird that Russia would be called out in the beginnings of a sneak attack, publicly deny it to the world, and then do it anyway. Or spill radioactive poisons on the streets of London in a a baroque assassination of a British citizen. Or try to import ground troops from frickin' North Korea. Weird stories do happen.
kergonath 2y ago
And yet it happened. Go figure.
matkoniecz 2y ago
Are you aware of repeated cable cuts and damage to pipelines in Baltic Sea? Are you claiming that all these severed themself or purely due non-malicious incompetence?
gitaarik 2y ago
So what is your theory?
tempestn 2y ago
Always curious when I see comments like these whether they're from literal Russian trolls. Or if not, then what exactly brought the person to a place where they will deny basic reality in order to show support for a brutal, expansionist dictatorship for.. some reason.
- zo1 2y ago
  It's very easy for us to doubt these things because they suspiciously and conveniently fit the "anti-russia" narrative. From there, a simple belief in the corruptibility and money-influence in media makes us question the story. And no amount of "oh it's hard to get hundreds of people to maintain a conspiracy" will reign it back. And I'm not a paid shill. The above is just a reality of the media landscape and a lot of people's mistrust in it and of the west in general.

safgasCVS 2y ago

It took less than a day to determine it was Russia and not only that but this specific ship that cut the cable. Yet years after the largest industrial sabotage and environmental disaster in recent memory (Nord Stream 2) absolutely no investigations into who caused that one and that story has been completely forgotten

Hamuko 2y ago
Officials are becoming more and more alert to these kinds of situations. Newnew Polar Bear managed to escape the scene of the crime without any issues, Yi Peng 3 managed to escape the scene of the crime but was later detained in international waters but not boarded without Chinese officials, and now Eagle S was caught red-handed and boarded immediately.
connicpu 2y ago
What? No investigation? This is pretty close to the top of the Wikipedia article on the matter: The Swedish and Danish investigations were closed in February 2024 without identifying those responsible,[16][17] but the German investigation is still ongoing.[18] In August 2024 media reported that in June German authorities issued a European arrest warrant for a Ukrainian national suspected of having used the sailing yacht Andromeda together with two others to sabotage the Nord Stream pipeline.[19] As of June 2024 the suspect is still at large, having reportedly left the EU for Ukraine.[20] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_pipelines_sabotage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_pipelines_sabotage
ttkk 2y ago
This ship slowed down noticeably before destroying the cables so officials were quick to react. Also, not too long time ago another sabotage ship broke stuff as well so this was probably expected to happen again. Really does not have anything to do with Nord Stream 2 since it was different water areas and methods. But that whataboutism surely gives clue where your message comes from.

bawolff 2y ago

What's the point of doing something like this? Its not very sneaky, they got caught rather easily. The damage is annoying, but deep sea cables have problems from time to time, its not like it created critical downtime or is unrepairable damage. Is this just russia trying to give some sort of warning? A sort of, you have lots of exposed infrastructure, if you keep calling my bluff i might start going after it for real-zies?

realusername 2y ago
It's the maximum Russia can do without direct NATO repercussions basically. If they could kill a top european politician, they would have done it already. What protects against that is NATO firepower.
- Sabinus 2y ago
  I wonder what the reaction would have been if the assassination plot on the Rehinmetall CEO had succeeded?
  - realusername 2y ago
    Difficult to say but I'm guessing some kind of military response with adequate previous warning would have happened. There's no way NATO would have let slipped an assassination like this, this would open up the path to more assassinations if unanswered.
victorbjorklund 2y ago
Slowly escalate without anything happening when people get used to it.
- xeonmc 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - seszett 2y ago

morkalork 2y ago

Why aren't pirates and saboteurs hanged? If certain nation states are intent on returning to past, might as well indulge them.

nextworddev 2y ago

China also got caught doing something similar a month ago https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/chinese-ship-suspected-of-deliberately-dragging-anchor-for-100-miles-to-cut-baltic-cables-395f65d1 https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/chinese-ship-suspected-of-d...

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
gs17 2y ago
That's still considered to be primarily Russia's doing, with an interesting new detail: > On 17 December 2024 the Russian Navy sea rescue tug Yevgeniy Churov[36] was reported to have approached the anchored Yi Peng 3, passing it at very low speed and with its own AIS transmitter turned off. The next day, investigators were finally allowed to board.

pseudony 2y ago

At some point I'd intimate that if these ships keep "accidentally" destroying undersea installations, then I'd start "accidentally" sinking them. Enough is enough, screw Russia

trhway 2y ago
some people in the suitable places are probably already thinking that way - just few days ago a Russian military cargo ship suddenly had explosion and sank in Mediterranean https://en.defence-ua.com/news/sunken_russian_ship_ursa_major_carried_valuable_equipment_for_kalibr_missile_loading-13003.html https://en.defence-ua.com/news/sunken_russian_ship_ursa_majo... "As for the equipment on board, the Navy spokesman noted that it was "quite expensive, sophisticated, foreign-made, and that russians do not do not produce such items." "To understand the importance of this equipment is I remind you that for six months they were unable to load Kalibr missiles in Novorossiysk due to the lack of such equipment," Pletenchuk emphasized."
- fnqi8ckfek 2y ago
  [dead]
AYBABTME 2y ago
There seems to be Russian ships accidentally sinking as well, these days.
yencabulator 2y ago
We really don't need all that pollution in that particular small sea, thank you very much. Confiscated, most likely found lacking insurance, and auctioned off to fund EU defense.
- switch007 2y ago
  Imagine if Churchill was swayed by a green brigade and just surrendered because of the potential pollution...

marvin-hansen 2y ago

Seriously, confiscate the ship, charge everyone on board with espionage, give maximum jail sentence, and close all maritime corridors going through NATO territory for Russia. Putin always tests for a response, and if there is none, he doubles down. Russia violated Turkey’s airspace only once, the jet was shot down immediately, and, save to say, Putin was on the phone with Ankara to prevent an all out escalation with a NATO member that can trigger article 5 at any time for self defense after an apparent aggression. Turned out, no more airspace violations happened again. As long as the West fails to respond with strength, Putin will never stop.

ordinary 2y ago
> Russia violated Turkey’s airspace only once, the jet was shot down immediately, and, save to say, Putin was on the phone with Ankara to prevent an all out escalation with a NATO member that can trigger article 5 at any time for self defense after an apparent aggression. Turned out, no more airspace violations happened again. I was on the same page as you for a long time, but aggressively defending your airspace also increases risk of collateral damage, leading to, for example, your military shooting down Azeri passenger jets. Or Malaysian ones. Or Iranian ones (to name one not committed by Russia).
marshray 2y ago
As I recall, Russia was making a habit of cutting across Turkey's airspace and they were officially warned before the shoot-down. I may be misremembering.
gregoriol 2y ago
"charge everyone on board with espionage, give maximum jail sentence" won't help: most of the crew has no choice in those operations, some might not even know what is going on. They also have dozens of ships that can do such damage, so no way to scare them by seizing or jailing one. The only good way would be to close the path.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

mozzieman 2y ago

Keep the ship for every cable. Should stop it quite quick.

CrzyLngPwd 2y ago

[flagged]

bilekas 2y ago
The Kremlin is not Russia. There are some extremely valid reasons for that. It's not like everyone just decided to not appreciate poor old Russia. The Kremlin's behaviour is ridiculous and shouldn't be accepted in Europe. Russoophobia is just another speaking point of the Kremlin that you're feeding into. Objectively they are in the wrong.
c16 2y ago
Cutting cables and having spy equipment onboard doesn’t really make it Russophobic though? It’s fact. Similarily, spoofing gps from Kaliningrad such that boats routinely end up in fields isn’t being offensive, it’s once again showing that Russia is messing with critical infrastructure. https://bsky.app/profile/auonsson.bsky.social/post/3lecxmzbzvk22 https://bsky.app/profile/auonsson.bsky.social/post/3lecxmzbz... One can state damning facts without being offensive to a people. This is such a case.
- CrzyLngPwd 2y ago
  Ah, so there is no conclusion that russia has cut any cables, just speculation, and last I checked having radio listening equipment wasn't illegal. So, there is that. Is there an issue with Russia spoofing GPS? They are at war. Ukraine does it over their territory and I imagine you are okay with it, and so does Israel, who is also at war. Are you suggesting that you would be outraged if your country was at war and spoofed GPS? Maybe if you think more you might be more open about why these things happen. I don't mean to offend you, but I am okay if I do.
sunaookami 2y ago
[flagged]
Applejinx 2y ago
It's interesting to watch Russia's posters beginning to get some pushback. My experience is that HN has suffered somewhat Reddit-like conditions, where if you criticized Russia's war on its neighbors and the West, you got botted. That sort of thing only works when it's not observed, and it looks like Hacker News is starting to protect itself against malicious actions, as are Russia's physical neighbors.

antman 2y ago

Ok so maybe it wasn't a sabotage but a botched attempt to install surveillance equipment on the cables? Or else why would it carry all these evidence

esskay 2y ago
Estlink 2 is a power cable, not data.

tuukkah 2y ago

The title needs the word 'earlier': "as recently as seven months ago". Otherwise, this is conflating separate missions that used the same ship.

lilianadavis32 2y ago

[dead]

devit 2y ago

Isn't the tanker much more expensive than repairing the cable damage? (and Russia has much lower GDP than the EU) Seems like they can't play this game for long.

smallmancontrov 2y ago
They are used to playing against a spineless opponent, which in theory could have gone on for quite a long time. In this case, I'm glad to see it didn't.
- euroderf 2y ago
  Has a value been announced for the cargo that has been confiscated ?
aljgz 2y ago
The total economic damage of cutting cables can be much higher.

rnaghl 2y ago

I have no doubt that there was spying equipment. That is assumed. Curious that this story is only run by Lloydslist and now Breitbart of all places has picked it up. It seems that someone has discovered tech people as willing amplifiers for war mongering (as chickenhawks, naturally, they won't be in the trenches).

ttkk 2y ago
Don't know about the linked site and its reputation. Found it myself quite clickbaity with the spying equipment twist. Here is more in-depth timeline kind of article from Estonia [1] and would recommend that instead. I guess this is just local news in the world scale amidst current global events and you must find local source for any quality. Surely it has been covered a lot here in Finland nationally because of rather new kind of hybrid warfare escalation - response event. [1] https://www-err-ee.translate.goog/1609561714/soome-hoidis-ara-ka-estlink-1-lohkumise-ja-balticconnectori-uue-lohkumise?_x_tr_sl=et&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fi&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-err-ee.translate.goog/1609561714/soome-hoidis-ar...
NicuCalcea 2y ago
Throwaway accounts accusing anyone of amplifying anything is quite funny.

largbae 2y ago

Why do these cable cutting ships leave AIS on? Is the risk of collision so great that they would rather document their crimes for all to see?

ninjaoxygen 2y ago
The act of turning AIS off can attract unwanted attention (higher resolution local satellite monitoring), less likely if you are entering waters where piracy is common and many vessels disable AIS. If a vessel turns AIS off then cuts the cable, but their position is known by other means, they will be giving up plausible deniability.
Etheryte 2y ago
Every ship in the Baltic sea is monitored and accounted for at all times, if your beacon suddenly disappears you're practically screaming look at me.

IYasha 2y ago

Reading comments on this article makes me want to wash my eyes.

syngrog66 2y ago

The EU should treat Putin's Russia like the aggressive evil predator and danger it so clearly is. And they should assume the US under Trump cannot be trusted. They must assume he's Putin's lackey. I'm American so it pains me to say it OTOH I don't want to see disaster to happen among our European allies.

euroderf 2y ago

In terms of international law and international maritime law, this is a fascinating case. Without directly applicable precedent, an actor does what it can/must within existing law. Finland has always been very conservative in such matters, and you can be sure that they thought long and hard about what their public legal position will be before they boarded the ship. The Russians will be conservative here too, because obviously the existing body of law has worked in their favor, giving them space to operate a "black fleet" - and to use it to execute sabotage. Or so they thought...

Permik 2y ago
In this most recent case the permission to board was very cut and dry as the vessel moved into Finland's territorial sea.
- euroderf 2y ago
  Reports from Yle (Finnish state broadcaster) and VOA say the ship was boarded in Finland's EEZ and then escorted INTO Finnish territorial waters.
  - sampo 2y ago
    > the ship was boarded in Finland's EEZ and then escorted INTO Finnish territorial waters You have misread. At least here in Q2 (https://yle.fi/a/74-20133775 https://yle.fi/a/74-20133775) Yle writes that first the ship was asked to move to Finnish territorial waters, and only then it was boarded.
    - euroderf 2y ago
      > Nyt Suomen viranomaiset saivat kaapelivaurioista epäillyn aluksen kääntymään Suomen aluevesille Hmm, they "got it to turn". Ahem I wonder what THAT means, and I wonder if there are recordings of the communications.
piombisallow 2y ago
I believe the punishment for piracy is hanging?

lakomen 2y ago

Sure it was Propaganda bullshit