19 ms·

I guess it's not news but it is pretty wild to see the level of millenarianism espoused by all of these guys. The board of OpenAI is supposedly going to "deter

• EA-3167 2y ago
  If you push back on them, you get pushed out. If you suck up to them and their delusional belief systems, you might get paid. It's a very self-selecting, self-reinforcing process. In other words, it's also an affective death spiral.
• hengheng 2y ago
  These guys didn't get to where they are now by admitting mistakes and making themselves accountable. In power play terms, that would be weak. And once you are way up there and you have definitely left earth, there is no right or wrong anymore, just strong and weak.
• ThrowawayTestr 2y ago
  It's been clear for a while now Elon has no one in his life that's willing to push back on his inane ideas
  • catigula 2y ago
    [flagged]
    • deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    • computerex 2y ago
      That same space company said that they'd do point to point commercial travel using rockets. As for significantly outperforming: Ask NASA, price per launch has gone UP not DOWN. What's the point of reusability if it doesn't affect the bottom line in a positive way?
      • catigula 2y ago
        NASA contracted two companies to perform space launches, Boeing and SpaceX. Due to massively inflating costs and a recent catastrophic failure, Boeing has a very uncertain future in the program. I hope this helps!
        • lesuorac 2y ago
          I mean once Boeing is out of the picture SpaceX is just going to raise its rates. Tesla sells EVs much cheaper in China than the US due to actual competition.
          • catigula 2y ago
            That's Boeing's problem, not SpaceX's. Boeing used to be a great American company.
            • lesuorac 2y ago
              Well, SpaceX's price increases are going to also be a NASA problem and by extension US taxpayer.
      • CuriousCosmic 2y ago
        Gonna need a source on that one. As much as I despise Elon Musk, the cost per kg to LEO has gone down a lot in recent years thanks to spacex.
• pinewurst 2y ago
  Nobody seems to remember how the Segway was going to change our world, backed by many of the VC power figures at the time + Steve Jobs.
  • klik99 2y ago
    In Segways defense that self balancing tech has made and will continue to make an impact, just not world changing amount (at least not yet) and not their particular company but the companies they influenced - the same may end up true about openai
  • hanspeter 2y ago
    I think we all remember, and if we forget, we're reminded every time we see them at airports or doing city tours.
    • Calavar 2y ago
      I don't think I've seen a Segway in close to ten years. Also I suspect most people under 25 have never even heard of Segway.
      • elif 2y ago
        One wheels (Segway evolutionary grandchild) are almost as popular as electric skateboards.
        • 9dev 2y ago
          So… not much? If anything, people drive electric scooters around here. Those seem to hit the sweet spot.
  • stolenmerch 2y ago
    I remember serious discussions about how we'd probably need to repave all of our sidewalks in the US to accommodate the Segway
  • elif 2y ago
• Flomolok 2y ago
  I tried Claude. If hardware continues it's evolution of speed in the next 10 years I can have Claude but local + running constantly and yeah that would change certain things fundamentaly
  • Scene_Cast2 2y ago
    When ChatGPT was down a few days back, I locally booted up Codestral. It was decent and usable.
  • jasonjmcghee 2y ago
    Try llama 3.3 70B. On groq or something. Runs on a 64GB macbook (4bit quantized, which seems to not impact quality much). Things have come a long way. Compare to llama 2 70b. It's wild
    • Terretta 2y ago
      Llama 3.3 70B 8-bit MLX runs on Macbook 128GB at 7+ tokens per second while running a full suite of other tools, even at the 130k tokens size, and behaves with surprising coherence. Reminded me of this time last year, first trying Mixtral 8x22 — which still offers a distinctive je ne sais quoi!
  • nmfisher 2y ago
    Qwen 2.5 32B Coder is actually a viable locally-hosted alternative to Claude 3.5 Sonnet. It's not better, but if I couldn't access Claude for some reason, I would definitely use it.
• slibhb 2y ago
  > So far we are multiple years in with much investment and little return Modern (2024) LLMs are "little return"? Seriously? For me, they've mostly replaced Google. I have no idea how well the scaling will contiue and I'm generally unimpressed with AI-doomer narratives, but this technology is real.
  • __loam 2y ago
    They're not talking about your anecdotes, they're talking about the capex and returns. Which are overwhelmingly negative.
    • zachthewf 2y ago
      I mean, inference costs have decreased like 1000x in a few years. OpenAI is the fastest growing startup by revenue, ever. How foolish do you have be to be worrying about ROI right now? The companies that are building out the datacenters produce billions per year in free cash flow. Maybe OP would prefer a dividend?
      • ben_w 2y ago
        Given how close the tech is to running on consumer hardware — by which I mean normal consumers not top-end MacBooks — there's a real chance that the direct ROI is going to be exactly zero within 5 years. I say direct, because Chrome is free to users, yet clearly has a benefit to Google worth spending on both development and advertising the browser to users, and analogous profit sources may be coming to LLMs for similar reasons — you can use it locally so long as you don't mind every third paragraph being a political message sponsored by the Turquoise Party of Tumbrige Wells.
      • billyhoffman 2y ago
        > OpenAI is the fastest growing startup by revenue, ever. No it's not. Facebook hit $2B in Revenue in late 2010 - early 2011, ~5 years after its founding. https://dazeinfo.com/2018/11/14/facebook-revenue-and-net-income-by-year-graphfarm/ https://dazeinfo.com/2018/11/14/facebook-revenue-and-net-inc...
• roughly 2y ago
  Regarding the Silicon Valley Mindset, Douglass Rushkoff wrote a quite good book on the topic: https://bookshop.org/p/books/survival-of-the-richest-escape-fantasies-of-the-tech-billionaires-douglas-rushkoff/18092436 https://bookshop.org/p/books/survival-of-the-richest-escape-...
• ben_w 2y ago
  > Is nobody in these very rich guys' spheres pushing back on their thought process? Yes, frequently and loudly. When Altman was collecting the award at Cambridge the other year, protesters dropped in on the after-award public talk/Q&A session, and he actively empathised with the protestors. > So far we are multiple years in with much investment and little return, and no obvious large-scale product-market fit, much less a superintelligence. I just got back from an Indian restaurant in the middle of Berlin, and the table next to me I overheard a daughter talking to her mother about ChatGPT and KI (Künstliche Intelligenz, the German for AI). The product market fit is fantastic. This isn't the first time I've heard random strangers discussing it in public. What's not obvious is how to monetise it. Old meme parroted around was "has no moat", which IMO is like saying Microsoft has no moat for spreadsheets: sure, anyone can make the core tech, and sure we don't know who is Microsoft vs StarOffice vs ClarisWorks vs Google Docs, but there's more than zero moat. From what I've seen, if OpenAI didn't develop new products, they'd be making enough to be profitable, but it's a Red Queen race to remain worth paying for. As for "much less a superintelligence": even the current models meet every definition of "very smart" I had while growing up, despite their errors. As an adult, I'd still call them book-smart if not abstractly smart. Students or recent graduates, but not wise enough to know their limits and be cautious. For current standards of what intelligence means, we'd better hope we don't get ASI in the next decade or two, because if and when that happens then "humans need not apply" — and by extension, foundational assumptions of economics may just stop holding true.
  • this_user 2y ago
    > When Altman was collecting the award at Cambridge the other year, protesters dropped in on the after-award public talk/Q&A session, and he actively empathised with the protestors. He always does that to give himself cover, but he has clearly shown that his words mean very little in this regard. He always dodges criticism. He used to talk about the importance of him being accountable to the OpenAI board and them being able to fire him if necessary when people were questioning the dangers of having one person have this much control over something as big as bleeding edge AI. He also used to mention how he had no direct financial interests in the company since he had no equity. Then the board did fire him. What happened next? He came back, the board is gone, he now openly has complete control over OpenAI, and they have given him a potentially huge equity package. I really don't think Sam Altman is particularly trustworthy. He will say whatever he needs to say to get what he wants.
• TZubiri 2y ago
  I remember seeing OpenAI like 10 years ago in GiveWell's list of charities along with water.org, deworm the world 80.000 hours and that kind of things. It's a wild take to say that they have gotten nowhere and that they haven't found product-market fit.
  • lupire 2y ago
    Are you sure? Good Ventures / Open Philanthropy (Dustin Moskovitz) funded GiveWell and OpenAI, and GiveWell's leadership floated to OpenAI, but I'm not convinced that GiveWell funded OpenAI. https://www.givewell.org/about/gw-op-relationship https://www.givewell.org/about/gw-op-relationship They are certainly both entangled with the Effective Altruism community, but GiveWell came from the "humanities/finance" side, not the tech bro technoutopia side.
    • TZubiri 2y ago
      Didn't say they fund. What givewell did was compile lists of charities and recommend one or the other.
  • talldayo 2y ago
    Anyone familiar with the past 10 years of "unicorn" startups or Sam Altman's business history is perfectly content saying that OpenAI has gone nowhere and cannot find a market fit for their paid products.
    • TZubiri 2y ago
      OpenAI is a NFP, this is a non trivial difference from unicorn startups. Also, 123 million Daily users. I'd say the found a market.
• elif 2y ago
  >So far we are multiple years in with much investment and little return, and no obvious large-scale product-market fit Literally every market has been disrupted and some are being optimized into nonexistence. You don't know anyone who's been laid off by a giant corporation that's also using an AI process that people did 3 years ago?
  • munk-a 2y ago
    I know companies that have had layoffs - but those would have happened anyways - regular layoffs are practically demanded by the market at this point. I know companies that have (or rather are in the process of) adopting AI into business workflows. The only companies I know of that aren't using more labor to correct their AI tools are the ones that used it pre-ChatGPT/AI Bubble. Plenty of companies have rolled out "talk to our AI" chat bubbles on their websites and users either exploit and jailbreak them to run prompts on the company's dime or generally detest them. AI is an extremely useful tool that has been improving our lives for a long time - but we're in the middle of an absolutely bonkers level bubble that is devouring millions of dollars for projects that often lack a clear monetization plan. Even code gen seems pretty underwhelming to most of the developers I've heard from that have used it - it may very well be extremely impactful to the next generation of developers - but most current developers have already honed their skills to out-compete code gen in the low complexity problems it can competently perform. Lots of money is entering markets - but I haven't seen real disruption.
    • hyeonwho4 2y ago
      > Even code gen seems pretty underwhelming to most of the developers I've heard from that have used it - it may very well be extremely impactful to the next generation of developers - but most current developers have already honed their skills to out-compete code gen in the low complexity problems it can competently perform. I'm in academia, and LLMs have completely revolutionized the process of data analysis for scientists and grad students. What used to be "page through the documentation to find useful primitives" or "read all the methods sections of the related literature" is now "ask an assistant what good solutions exist for this problem" or "ask LLMs to solve this problem using my existing framework." What used to be days of coding is now hours of conversation. And it's also above-average at talking through scientific problems.
• worik 2y ago
  > and no obvious large-scale product-market fit, Really? I use, and pay for, OpenAI every day
• Dig1t 2y ago
  I'm going to favorite this thread and come back with a comment in 10 years. I think it will be fun to revisit this conversation. If you really don't think that this line of research and development is leading to AGI then I think you are being hopelessly myopic. >robotics to be "completely solved" by 2020 There are some incredible advances happening _right now_ in robotics largely due to advances in AI. Obviously 2020 was not exactly correct, but also we had COVID which kind of messed up everything in the business world. And arguing that something didn't happen in 2020 but instead happened in 2025 or 2030, is sort of being pedantic isn't it? Being a pessimist makes you sound smart and world-weary, but you are just so wrong.
  • 9dev 2y ago
    Being an optimist makes you sound naive and a dreamer. There is no scientific agreement that LLMs are going to lead to AGI in the slightest—we cannot even define what consciousness is, so even if the technology would lead to actual intelligence, we lack the tools to prove that. In terms of robotics, the progress sure is neat, but for the foreseeable time, a human bricklayer will outcompete any robot; if not on the performance dimension, then on cost or flexibility. We’re just not there yet, not by a long stretch. And that won’t change just by deceiving yourself.
  • yodsanklai 2y ago
    > line of research and development is leading to AGI What do you mean by AGI exactly? if you want to come back in 10 years to see who's right, at least you should provide some objective criteria so we can decide if the goal has been attained.
    • Dig1t 2y ago
      I'm talking about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_general_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_general_intelligenc... >Artificial general intelligence (AGI) is a type of artificial intelligence (AI) that matches or surpasses human cognitive capabilities across a wide range of cognitive tasks. Most (if not all) of the tests listed on the wikipedia page will be passed: >Several tests meant to confirm human-level AGI have been considered, including: >The Turing Test (Turing) This test is of course already passed by all the existing models. >The Robot College Student Test (Goertzel) >The Employment Test (Nilsson) >The Ikea test (Marcus) >The Coffee Test (Wozniak) >The Modern Turing Test (Suleyman)
• andy_ppp 2y ago
  Echo chambers are very effective at drowning out dissenting voices.
• madrox 2y ago
  I think an assumption that a lot of people make about people with power is that they say what they actually believe. In my experience, they do not. Public speech is a means to an end, and they will say whatever is the strongest possible argument that will lead them to what they actually want. In this case, OpenAI wants look like they're going to save the world and do it in a noble way. It's Google's "don't be evil" all over again.
  • sourcepluck 2y ago
    I'll sleep easier tonight after reading this! I know other people know what you say there, but at times reading HN one would suspect that it's not that commonly known around these parts. Maybe public figures were "saying what they meant" in, I don't know, the mid-1800s. People who grew up with "modern" communications and media infrastructure (smartphones, brain rot, streaming garbage 24/7, ads everywhere, etc) do not have the capacity to act in a non-mediatic fashion in public space anymore. So that's the reality, I think. Not only is Sam Altman "fake" in public, so is everyone else (more or less), including you and I. Nonetheless, it's a national sport at least in massive chunks of the English-speaking world now to endlessly speculate about the real intentions of these pharaonic figures. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: what a very peculiar timeline.
    • imiric 2y ago
      It's human nature to assume honesty and good will. Societies couldn't function if that wasn't the case. Lies and deception are only common in interactions outside of our immediate tribe and community. They're the primary tools of scammers, politicians, and general psychopaths, who seek to exploit this assumption of honesty that most people have, and they're very successful at it. The problem is that technology has blurred the line between close communities and the rest of the world, and forced everyone to accept living in a global village. So while some of us would want the world to function with honesty first, the reality is that humans are genetically programmed to be tribal and deceitful, and that can't change in a few generations. It's hilariously easy to be "successful" in the modern world. It's so easy that a dumb person following a playbook of "deny, divert, discredit" can become president.
• pembrook 2y ago
  > no obvious large-scale product-market fit I mean, I know pessimistically "ackshually"-ing yourself into the wrong side of history is kind of Hackernews's thing (eg. that famous dropbox comment). But if you don't think OpenAI found product-market-fit with ChatGPT, then I don't think you understand what product-market-fit is...
  • snowwrestler 2y ago
    It’s popular but not making money. So maybe product-audience fit so far.
  • dkrich 2y ago
    That’s because it sparked a virtuous feedback loop at a time when it just so happens people’s credulity levels are off the charts. The creators of AI tools have a benefit in hyping it, as do software vendors as do hardware companies as do hyper scalers as does meta as does musk as do systems integrators like Accenture and on and on. I think OP is saying despite all that there is little evidence that end users are actually paying significant sums of money to use it. To this point it’s a great marketing tool for companies that are all eager to be viewed as innovative and you have lots of very wealthy smart people with clout like Bezos and Zuckerberg talking it up. Like any good bubble you have to have at the core a real asset. So of course there are people who use it daily as many anecdotes here in the comments point out. It’s a genuinely interesting and useful technology. That doesn’t mean though that it’s going to result in AGI or become profitable while liquidity conditions are still easy. I promise you Mark Zuckerberg would be singing a very different tune regarding chip investment if he were having to compete with bonds yielding 6-7%+.
  • WickyNilliams 2y ago
    There is no killer app (yet). Chat is nice and there's various tools that are useful to devs. But broadly, there is no killer app that makes _everyone_ adopt it and gladly pay for it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application
    • pembrook 2y ago
• dbreunig 2y ago
  Altman appears to say AGI is far away when he shouldn't be regulated, right around the corner when he's raising funds, or is going to happen tomorrow and be mundane when he's trying break a Microsoft contract.
• peutetre 2y ago
  > Is nobody in these very rich guys' spheres pushing back on their thought process? It's more simple. They've found that the grander the vision, the bigger the lie the more people will believe it. So they lie. Take Tesla's supposed full self-driving as an example. Tesla's doesn't have full self-driving. Musk has been lying about it for a decade. Musk tells the same lie year after year, like clockwork. And yet there are still plenty of true believers who ardently defend Tesla's lies and buy more Tesla stock. The lies work.
• wnevets 2y ago
  > Is nobody in these very rich guys' spheres pushing back on their thought process? The moment someone does that they're no longer in the very rich guys sphere.
• benatkin 2y ago
  > I guess it's not news but it is pretty wild to see the level of millenarianism espoused by all of these guys. Unprecedented change has already happened with LLMs. So this is expected. > So far we are multiple years in with much investment and little return ...because it's expensive to build what they're building.
  • achierius 2y ago
    What unprecedented change? No changes induced by LLMs are 'novel'. We've had much larger layoffs due to smaller technological improvements, for example. Productivity hasn't gone up nearly as much (a few percent?) as it did with electrification. What metric are you specifically thinking of?
• delusional 2y ago
  I agree with your analysis. The nice thing I've realized is that this means I can just stop paying attention to it. The product sucks, and is useless. The people are all idiots with god complexes. All the money are fake funny money they get from their rich friends in silicon valley. It will literally have no impact on anything. It will be like NFT's however long ago that was. Everybody will talk about how important it is, then they wont. Life will go one as it always have, with people and work, and the slow march of progress. In 30 years nobody is going to remember who "sam altman" was.
  • CamperBob2 2y ago
    User name checks out
• sebzim4500 2y ago
  >and no obvious large-scale product-market fit I'm afraid you are in as much an echo chamber as anyone. 200 million+ weekly active users is large scale pmf
  • foooorsyth 2y ago
    It’s the fastest product to 100m users ever. Even if they never update their models from here on out, they have an insanely popular and useful product. It’s better at search than Google. Students use it universally. And programmers are dependent on it. Inference is cheap — only training is expensive. To say they don’t have PMF is nuts.
    • dingnuts 2y ago
      >It’s better at search than Google in what world? what it's good at is suggesting things to search, because half of what it outputs is incorrect, so you have to verify everything anyway it does, slightly, improve search, but it's an addition, not a replacement.
      • CamperBob2 2y ago
        Two years ago half of what it output was incorrect. One year ago, maybe 30% of what it output was incorrect. Currently, maybe 20% of what it tells you is incorrect. It's getting better. Google, on the other hand, is unequivocally getting worse.
        • philipwhiuk 2y ago
          Rubbish - there's no data that shows accuracy has improved by that much.
          • CamperBob2 2y ago
            I brought every bit as much data to the conversation as you did.
    • 2y ago
• tim333 2y ago
  The goal to "avoid an AGI dictatorship" may sound silly but it doesn't seem very far fetched that someone like Putin would replace themselves with a Putinbot which could then scheme to take over the world with their nukes much like now. One good thing about human dictators is at least they die eventually.
  • ascorbic 2y ago
    It sounds like they were worrying about Demis Hassabis rather than Putin.
• pooper 2y ago
  > Is nobody in these very rich guys' spheres pushing back on their thought process? I will take a wild guess and say a qualified no in the sense that nobody who report directly to these people said anything against it and my conspiracy theory is that they were not idiots who didn't have their own misgivings but they prized their own personal gain / "professional growth" by being yes men over doing what they had a professional responsibility. My favorite example is the Amazon Fire Phone > Jeff Bezos reportedly "...envisioned a list of whiz-bang features... NFC for contactless payments, hands-free interactions to allow users to navigate the interface through mid-air gestures and a force-sensitive grip that could respond in different ways to various degrees of physical pressure", most of which ultimately did not end up in the final product. He also "obsessively monitored the product", requiring "even the smallest decisions needed to go by him". Did nobody think that an expensive phone would make sense with a value conscious audience of Amazon.com? If nobody (who directly reports to the CEO) dares question even a relatively minor thing like this, how can we expect them to say anything about major/existential issues in a company such as "Open" AI? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_Phone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_Phone
  • takinola 2y ago
    There is a steelman argument for not pushing back on plans that don't make sense. You have to remember that folks like this are not just random mad men spouting crazy ideas. This is someone that has had crazy ideas in the past AND made them happen. In some cases, more than once. If you had a front row seat to watching someone deliver stuff that you thought couldn't be done, what you do when they came up with the next crazy idea? It is not unreasonable to subjugate your own judgement and just see where it goes.
• atleastoptimal 2y ago
  lol it’s funny coming in here and seeing the HN echo chamber where AI never gets better and is just a fad. They will insist AI is useless even as it begins automating entire industries and surpassing humans in every benchmark. Claiming there’s no product market fit when ChatGPT has 200m users and companies are saving billions replacing workers with GenAI is laughable. What keeps people from accepting this new reality? Is it ego, a fear of irrelevance due to AI inevitably eclipsing them in their most prized aptitudes?
• niceice 2y ago
  Would you have disagreed with Ilya about AGI? Or do you just disagree with the cost and timeline? Ilya reiterated on July 12, 2017, “Each year, we'll need to exponentially increase our hardware spend, but we have reason to believe AGI can ultimately be built with less than $10B in hardware.”
• bubaumba 2y ago
  > multiple years in with much investment and little return Hmm.. where do you live? It's quite transforming already in many areas and not going to stop any time soon. I'll call it 'The Last Explosion', as opposite to 'AI Winter'. By that I mean this explosion with result in AGI. Likely sub-human first, then super-human.
• ksec 2y ago
  Millenarianism or millenarism (from Latin millenarius 'containing a thousand' and -ism) is the belief by a religious, social, or political group or movement in a coming fundamental transformation of society, after which "all things will be changed".. - From Wiki Correct me if this the wrong meaning in the context. I will admit this is the first time I see this word. When I first read it I thought it was something to do with "millennials" also known as Gen Y. >Robotics to be "completely solved" by 2020, And we still dont have Lv4 / Lv 5 autonomous vehicles. Not close and likely still not in 2030. And with all the regulation hurdle in place it means even if we achieve it by 2030 in lab it wont be widespread until 2035 or later.
  • ta12653421 2y ago
    ++1 me too
• johnisgood 2y ago
  Claude is great, I think Claude 3.5 Sonnet is way better than OpenAI's GPT-4. It understands and follows instructions better, and the context length is larger too. Despite GPT-4 having some context length, too (duh), it often acts as if I started over. It fails at programming for me, and for basic stuff, like "giving movie recommendations without duplicates". If I send it twice or thrice, there will be duplicates despite having it instructed to omit them. As long as Anthropic does not dumb their own models, they are going to be better than OpenAI, at least for what I use them. So, in the present, Claude is way more useful to me and I am subscribed. Right now, they do not support text-to-speech and imagine generation, but once they do, I would just completely abandon OpenAI. > The board of OpenAI is supposedly going to "determine the fate of the world", robotics to be "completely solved" by 2020, the goal of OpenAI is to "avoid an AGI dictatorship". Given the above, I doubt it is going to be OpenAI at this rate. It seems better for educational purposes given that it shows you the code with modifications in real-time and you can run Python scripts for example, but that said, I have not tried the "Educational" style for Claude.
• kmacdough 2y ago
  I use AI in my work as a machinist/CNC programmer on a weekly if not a daily basis. It's primary advantage for a while has been it's crazy breadth of knowledge which it can present in a human, flexible form. But perhaps we excuse this as Generally Knowledgeable not Generally Intelligent. But with the most recent models I'm finding the intelligence harder to deny. They are now catching errors and false assumptions unprompted and with regularity and providing reliable feedback and criticism. Gemini 2.0 can now read prints usefully, if not perfectly and has caught multiple print errors missed by the engineers and experienced machinists alike. It provides valuable feedback and criticism and frequently interjects when it thinks I'm barking up the wrong tree. The newest models have gotten quite good at asking for clarification rather than leaning into assumptions. Now it's certainly not the smartest. It's creativity is mediocre and it's lack of practical experience is apparent. But thats understandable, as _it's never machined a day in it's life_. It's merely studied what's been written. Sure, hallucinations and the like are still a thing (though they've been cut down drastically). And the creativity is quite mediocre. But it seems a lot more intelligent than some of the burnouts coming out of trade schools.
• mattkenefick 2y ago
  > much investment and little return, and no obvious large-scale product-market fit, much less a superintelligence. I'm always blown away when I see comments like this. It just makes me think the people that say this either work for a competitor or simply haven't used their products. The things that OpenAI and similar companies have created are literally revolutionary. It's insane. Pretending it's "little return" is a very strange opinion.
• hulitu 2y ago
  > So far we are multiple years in with much investment and little return Copilot ? Recall ? "Your privacy is _very important_ for us"