7 ms·

The article notes that the most recent recall was a physical one, not a software update, and implies that that was unusual. I wonder if you exclude "recalls" r

The article notes that the most recent recall was a physical one, not a software update, and implies that that was unusual. I wonder if you exclude "recalls" resolved by software updates, for all cars, where it would rank then?

gibolt 2y ago
Very few others have recalls that can be done OTA. Even if it is just software, expect an hour to days at a service center to do the update, if the techs can figure it out. For Tesla, the software recalls are nearly automatic (one click install, just like other update), such that few owners even know that their car ever had a recall.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  This is kind of true. Say what you want about Tesla, but they have the best software experience out of the other car manufacturers. I love my BMW i4, but had to take into the shop just to fix a botched softwares update. Well, at least the cabin is silent.
  - k4rli 2y ago
    I'd say my 2006MY car has the best software experience. The less, the better.
- davedx 2y ago
  My Model 3 has had: - charge port needing replaced shortly after I bought: mobile service - front and rear suspension forks replaced: 2 trips to service center (common according to them) - rear light needed replacing (mobile service) 4 years old. Still not as bad as our last car (diesel VW Sharan), but Teslas have plenty of defects that can’t be fixed OTA.
  - darkwater 2y ago
    Sure, but "recall" in the automotive market has a very precise meaning, and refers to safety issues (at production line level, so impacting many VINs)that needs to be fixed. In Tesla's case, unlike most of other vendors, generally these recalls can be fixed with an OTA update. The CT OTOH had many "classical" physical recalls due to hardware issues.
- caconym_ 2y ago
  I've bought several new cars in the past few years and zero of them have had a recall I'm aware of, software or otherwise. My old car went almost 20 years with just two recalls that I can remember. Even ignoring software recalls, then, the Cybertruck has a significantly higher recall rate (per unit time) than anything I've owned, so the fact that it has had even more recalls that could be serviced OTA is really neither here nor there. The user-facing software systems in these modern luxury cars really do seem to cause a lot of issues.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  > Even if it is just software, expect an hour to days at a service center to do the update, if the techs can figure it out. Ahh, yes, the dinosaurs and their bumbling cavemen 'techs'. Meanwhile in the real world, while my Audi gets a lot of OTA updates, updates done at the dealership are done by plugging a USB drive into the car. Hopefully the techs can figure that out, if we give them a few days...
bboygravity 2y ago
If that's indeed it, I would rank the article as worse than 91 percent of ordinary boring Elon and Tesla bashing in 2024. I guess on a positive note they stopped posting that Tesla is almost bankrupt for the 1000th time because Elon.
- xcv123 2y ago
  [flagged]
- throwaway8754aw 2y ago
  Elon is out for Elon always ..a slimey used car salesman I.e. bring out the AI Optimus robots all controlled by AI. Not! Elon is Trump's next Omarosa...
- clarionbell 2y ago
  Elon continues to baffle by avoiding bankruptcy.
- mst 2y ago
  It isn't, this time. I've seen plenty of articles, contemptuous tweets, etc. that conflated OTA updates that were classified as 'recalls' by the safety authorities with physical issue recalls. And I'm annoyed that the article didn't provide the answer itself. But per https://www.cars.com/research/tesla-cybertruck/recalls/ https://www.cars.com/research/tesla-cybertruck/recalls/ 5/6 of the recalls for the cybertruck to date have been physical, only the immediately previous one was resolveable by an OTA update. (I'm in the "I think Elon is a dick but Tesla is pretty cool and SpaceX is awesome" camp personally, so bad criticism of Tesla annoys me not just on a basis of hating bad criticism of things in general but also because I get doubly annoyed when somebody criticises somebody I believe *is* worth of criticism and then manages to do it inaccurately ... you're in a target rich environment! Stop shooting at squirrels instead!)
stackghost 2y ago
>I wonder if you exclude "recalls" resolved by software updates, for all cars, where it would rank then? Why have you put "recalls" in quotes? It gives the impression you think this makes it somehow lesser. The cybertruck, for example, was subject to a recall because the rearview camera wouldn't come up, but the mirrors are insufficient to back the vehicle up safely without the camera. That's a safety issue, irrespective of whether or not the fix was in software.
- justinclift 2y ago
  > Why have you put "recalls" in quotes? Maybe because an over-the-air update is hard to seriously consider a "recall"?
  - noapologies 2y ago
    Why? Are safety issues not "serious"?
    - wobfan 2y ago
      If you think about the financial implications then probably yes. Software issues, safety related or not, can probably easily be fixed OTA and thus don’t even cause a fraction of the costs a (let’s call it "real") recall costs. Also, in the head of most people, I think, a recall is something where the car needs to be returned physically. But still, obviously, the issues can be as serious as physical issues. It’s just that we’re used to physical recalls.
    - damon_c 2y ago
      The word recall sort of implies that the vehicle is recalled to the manufacturer. Calling a software update that happens in your garage at night and takes 20 minutes a “recall” definitely is worthy of quotes.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - 2y ago
karlgkk 2y ago
> I wonder if you exclude "recalls" resolved by software updates, for all cars, where it would rank then? While I agree that the term "recall" is overloaded, the Cybertruck has had some pretty spicy safety related "recalls". Issues that, frankly, it should not have been allowed onto public roads with.
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
tromp 2y ago
Recalls come in two types, soft recalls that can be fixed by a software update, and hard recalls that cannot. Many people are still not used to regarding the former as recalls, as they associate the word not with the safety issue itself but the way it gets resolved. It would be nice for articles discussing recalls to point out what type it entails, both for being more immediately informative, and to get people used to software updates being able to qualify as recalls.
- miohtama 2y ago
  If the article were more honest it would be less clickbaity, selling less on Mr Musk hate. As we can see raging HN discussion, being pedantic or not.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
szszrk 2y ago
> where it would rank then? I would rank it as "still isn't legal to import or drive in most of the Europe".
friendzis 2y ago
> I wonder if you exclude "recalls" resolved by software updates, for all cars, where it would rank then? Why would you? A recall is part of *safety* process, where company internal safety lifecycle failed to a level that adults had to step in and say "this is actually unsafe, fix your shit or it gets pulled out of market". The fact that issue can be remedied with software update is irrelevant, because in the end the core issue is that an unsafe product was distributed to the market. The fact that you put recall into quotes is telltale sign how Tesla managed to undermine public safety concerns drawing a divide between software-only and hardware fixes.
croes 2y ago
If you’re a victim of one of these errors does it matter it was later fixed by a software update? Recall mean an error the manufacturer to fix, the how doesn’t matter at that point.
mst 2y ago
That would make a significant difference for other Teslas but apparently not for the cybertruck: https://www.cars.com/research/tesla-cybertruck/recalls/ https://www.cars.com/research/tesla-cybertruck/recalls/ Not sure where it would rank at '5 recalls' instead of '6 recalls' but suboptimal nevertheless. (I think the article noted that because the immediately previous one *was* a software update ... but it appears that's the only one that was)
FireBeyond 2y ago
> I wonder if you exclude "recalls" resolved by software updates, for all cars, where it would rank then? That depends, are you also going to exclude recalls for other cars, like one I got last year, "Please insert this piece of paper between page 129 and 130 of your owner's manual. It contains supplemental information about the operation of a vehicle system"? Or will only CyberTruck get this special treatment?

gibolt 2y ago

Very few others have recalls that can be done OTA. Even if it is just software, expect an hour to days at a service center to do the update, if the techs can figure it out. For Tesla, the software recalls are nearly automatic (one click install, just like other update), such that few owners even know that their car ever had a recall.

seanmcdirmid 2y ago
This is kind of true. Say what you want about Tesla, but they have the best software experience out of the other car manufacturers. I love my BMW i4, but had to take into the shop just to fix a botched softwares update. Well, at least the cabin is silent.
- k4rli 2y ago
  I'd say my 2006MY car has the best software experience. The less, the better.
davedx 2y ago
My Model 3 has had: - charge port needing replaced shortly after I bought: mobile service - front and rear suspension forks replaced: 2 trips to service center (common according to them) - rear light needed replacing (mobile service) 4 years old. Still not as bad as our last car (diesel VW Sharan), but Teslas have plenty of defects that can’t be fixed OTA.
- darkwater 2y ago
  Sure, but "recall" in the automotive market has a very precise meaning, and refers to safety issues (at production line level, so impacting many VINs)that needs to be fixed. In Tesla's case, unlike most of other vendors, generally these recalls can be fixed with an OTA update. The CT OTOH had many "classical" physical recalls due to hardware issues.
caconym_ 2y ago
I've bought several new cars in the past few years and zero of them have had a recall I'm aware of, software or otherwise. My old car went almost 20 years with just two recalls that I can remember. Even ignoring software recalls, then, the Cybertruck has a significantly higher recall rate (per unit time) than anything I've owned, so the fact that it has had even more recalls that could be serviced OTA is really neither here nor there. The user-facing software systems in these modern luxury cars really do seem to cause a lot of issues.
FireBeyond 2y ago
> Even if it is just software, expect an hour to days at a service center to do the update, if the techs can figure it out. Ahh, yes, the dinosaurs and their bumbling cavemen 'techs'. Meanwhile in the real world, while my Audi gets a lot of OTA updates, updates done at the dealership are done by plugging a USB drive into the car. Hopefully the techs can figure that out, if we give them a few days...

bboygravity 2y ago

If that's indeed it, I would rank the article as worse than 91 percent of ordinary boring Elon and Tesla bashing in 2024. I guess on a positive note they stopped posting that Tesla is almost bankrupt for the 1000th time because Elon.

xcv123 2y ago
[flagged]
throwaway8754aw 2y ago
Elon is out for Elon always ..a slimey used car salesman I.e. bring out the AI Optimus robots all controlled by AI. Not! Elon is Trump's next Omarosa...
clarionbell 2y ago
Elon continues to baffle by avoiding bankruptcy.
mst 2y ago
It isn't, this time. I've seen plenty of articles, contemptuous tweets, etc. that conflated OTA updates that were classified as 'recalls' by the safety authorities with physical issue recalls. And I'm annoyed that the article didn't provide the answer itself. But per https://www.cars.com/research/tesla-cybertruck/recalls/ https://www.cars.com/research/tesla-cybertruck/recalls/ 5/6 of the recalls for the cybertruck to date have been physical, only the immediately previous one was resolveable by an OTA update. (I'm in the "I think Elon is a dick but Tesla is pretty cool and SpaceX is awesome" camp personally, so bad criticism of Tesla annoys me not just on a basis of hating bad criticism of things in general but also because I get doubly annoyed when somebody criticises somebody I believe *is* worth of criticism and then manages to do it inaccurately ... you're in a target rich environment! Stop shooting at squirrels instead!)

stackghost 2y ago

>I wonder if you exclude "recalls" resolved by software updates, for all cars, where it would rank then? Why have you put "recalls" in quotes? It gives the impression you think this makes it somehow lesser. The cybertruck, for example, was subject to a recall because the rearview camera wouldn't come up, but the mirrors are insufficient to back the vehicle up safely without the camera. That's a safety issue, irrespective of whether or not the fix was in software.

justinclift 2y ago
> Why have you put "recalls" in quotes? Maybe because an over-the-air update is hard to seriously consider a "recall"?
- noapologies 2y ago
  Why? Are safety issues not "serious"?
  - wobfan 2y ago
    If you think about the financial implications then probably yes. Software issues, safety related or not, can probably easily be fixed OTA and thus don’t even cause a fraction of the costs a (let’s call it "real") recall costs. Also, in the head of most people, I think, a recall is something where the car needs to be returned physically. But still, obviously, the issues can be as serious as physical issues. It’s just that we’re used to physical recalls.
  - damon_c 2y ago
    The word recall sort of implies that the vehicle is recalled to the manufacturer. Calling a software update that happens in your garage at night and takes 20 minutes a “recall” definitely is worthy of quotes.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - 2y ago

karlgkk 2y ago

> I wonder if you exclude "recalls" resolved by software updates, for all cars, where it would rank then? While I agree that the term "recall" is overloaded, the Cybertruck has had some pretty spicy safety related "recalls". Issues that, frankly, it should not have been allowed onto public roads with.

aaron695 2y ago

[dead]

tromp 2y ago

Recalls come in two types, soft recalls that can be fixed by a software update, and hard recalls that cannot. Many people are still not used to regarding the former as recalls, as they associate the word not with the safety issue itself but the way it gets resolved. It would be nice for articles discussing recalls to point out what type it entails, both for being more immediately informative, and to get people used to software updates being able to qualify as recalls.

miohtama 2y ago
If the article were more honest it would be less clickbaity, selling less on Mr Musk hate. As we can see raging HN discussion, being pedantic or not.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

szszrk 2y ago

> where it would rank then? I would rank it as "still isn't legal to import or drive in most of the Europe".

friendzis 2y ago

> I wonder if you exclude "recalls" resolved by software updates, for all cars, where it would rank then? Why would you? A recall is part of *safety* process, where company internal safety lifecycle failed to a level that adults had to step in and say "this is actually unsafe, fix your shit or it gets pulled out of market". The fact that issue can be remedied with software update is irrelevant, because in the end the core issue is that an unsafe product was distributed to the market. The fact that you put recall into quotes is telltale sign how Tesla managed to undermine public safety concerns drawing a divide between software-only and hardware fixes.

croes 2y ago

If you’re a victim of one of these errors does it matter it was later fixed by a software update? Recall mean an error the manufacturer to fix, the how doesn’t matter at that point.

mst 2y ago

That would make a significant difference for other Teslas but apparently not for the cybertruck: https://www.cars.com/research/tesla-cybertruck/recalls/ https://www.cars.com/research/tesla-cybertruck/recalls/ Not sure where it would rank at '5 recalls' instead of '6 recalls' but suboptimal nevertheless. (I think the article noted that because the immediately previous one *was* a software update ... but it appears that's the only one that was)

FireBeyond 2y ago

> I wonder if you exclude "recalls" resolved by software updates, for all cars, where it would rank then? That depends, are you also going to exclude recalls for other cars, like one I got last year, "Please insert this piece of paper between page 129 and 130 of your owner's manual. It contains supplemental information about the operation of a vehicle system"? Or will only CyberTruck get this special treatment?