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How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me
- MarkMarine 2y agohttps://archive.is/2sRrE https://archive.is/2sRrE
- perihelions 2y agoThe primary source is https://www.ft.com/content/b9e419c6-acf1-420b-8ae6-908feb52c94e https://www.ft.com/content/b9e419c6-acf1-420b-8ae6-908feb52c... ("How ‘Factorio’ seduced Silicon Valley — and me") (Cool fourth-wall breaking moment seeing an HN'er featured in the FT!)
- dang 2y ago(We moved this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41954555 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41954555) Three HNers (at least!) https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=xal https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=xal https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=patio11 https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=patio11 https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=kentonv https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=kentonv
- kentonv 2y agoAnd the author of the article contacted me because of this old HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26593117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26593117 (Also, I am typing this while alt-tabbed out of Factorio...)
- dang 2y agoHighlighted. Thanks! https://news.ycombinator.com/highlights https://news.ycombinator.com/highlights (Unfortunately one would have to scroll back through 3 years' worth of other things to run across it, but it's on my list to fix that and it's squirreled away there for the future)
- Centigonal 2y agoYou could replace this whole article with https://xkcd.com/356/ https://xkcd.com/356/ Also, if you like Factorio Youtube videos, I'm a big fan of https://www.youtube.com/@DoshDoshington https://www.youtube.com/@DoshDoshington
- KaoruAoiShiho 2y agoIs there a better graphics version of factorio? And no I don't mean Satisfactory or Dyson Sphere Program though those are good games in their own rights, I mean something with the same level of depth and camera as factorio.
- dcre 2y agoBetter in what sense?
- philsnow 2y agoI love Factorio but the graphics look a bit like 1996 SVGA 256-color sprites (edit: by which I mean, I feel like there is noticeable dithering). I haven't played the new "Factorio in space" bits, maybe it gets out of the browns-and-beige color palette a bit more?
- btmiller 2y agoI love the art for two reasons: 1. It’s simple, charming, and nostalgic. 2. I view it as a defense mechanism against the onslaught of modern gaming that’s locked in a race to the lowest common denominator (i.e. “Stay away! This game isn’t for you!” ;) )
- marcosdumay 2y agoYou don't like the design aesthetic? Because your phrased your question like people that complain about the level of detail. Yes, factorio is ugly (although some trees are beautiful). And yes, that's a design decision. There are some mods that reskin it. Personally, I don't think any of them are beautiful.
- duskwuff 2y ago> by which I mean, I feel like there is noticeable dithering Any chance you have the game set to use 16-bit color?
- kzrdude 2y agoFor Factorio 2.0, there's a lot of graphics that have gotten higher resolution upgrades. Earendel has blogged about working on this. (The Space Exploration mod author, who also works for Wube). Terrain looks better, trees look better, too, I think it's a pretty big change.
- dangsux 2y ago[dead]
- Xeronate 2y agoThe article mentions one of the main appeals of factorio is you get to think like a programmer without bosses/overhead from actual work but it’s always been hard to get into games for that reason because I could just work on a side project with the same result. I really don’t understand the appeal.
- dunefox 2y agoI don't either. I tried getting into it (and recently Satisfactory) and I find it boring.
- OrigamiPastrami 2y agoI remember when Guitar Hero came out I didn't understand why anybody would play that instead of just buying a guitar. The point is the videogame itself is designed to be fun and remove plenty of other elements from the real life equivalent that focuses more on enjoyment and less on grinding it out. If you're thinking about "what have I accomplished?" instead of "I'm having so much fun!" then it might not be for you. The other aspect is there are plenty of people that like to think like programmers, but have no experience programming and the barrier to entry for a videogame is substantially lower than even figuring out a "hello world!" program for someone who wouldn't even know how to pick a programming language.
- cole-k 2y agoYour comparison hits home for me. I have been playing guitar on-and-off for over a decade (OK, maybe more like trying to play guitar) and I still really enjoy Guitar Hero. It's instant gratification: I don't have as much fun practicing at .75x speed with a metronome to learn the hard part of a piece. Instead a video game tells me how great I am at "guitar" by being able to push buttons and strum on the beat, not to mention that I hear the sounds of my favorite songs come out when I do it. For a similar reason, I like Rocksmith (guitar hero but with a real guitar), but the gratification is not quite so instant. They gamify the practicing part but I still need to do it, otherwise the part I'm playing actually sounds bad. And sight-reading is so much harder when there are more than 5 buttons.
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- chasd00 2y agoI get a real kick out of playing builder games with my son. We played Jurassic park evolution a lot, I would direct contracts and what to build and then we’d discuss and he would build it. Heh it was like being team lead without the pressure and anxiety.
- dowakin 2y agoBTW "Factorio: Space Age" was release a few days ago. Personally, I'm going to spend whole Sunday playing it :)
- DonHopkins 2y agoI've started a new Space Age game, too! With the understanding that you can regularly leave Factorio running overnight or even all week to build up resources, how many hours have other hard core Factorio players logged? My Factorio play time is up to 6,573.2 hours at this point. I love Factorio for the same reasons I love SimCity. 6,573.2 hours seems like a lot of time, but I've probably logged even more hours playing SimCity since 1989. (But much of that was actual productive time porting it to various platforms, testing, debugging, and optimizing the actual source code and user interface, etc.) https://github.com/SimHacker/MicropolisCore https://github.com/SimHacker/MicropolisCore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fVl4dGwUrA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fVl4dGwUrA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8snnqQSI0GE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8snnqQSI0GE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsxoZXaYJSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsxoZXaYJSk
- quesera 2y ago> My Factorio play time is up to 6,573.2 hours at this point. I habitually translate "X thousands of hours" into "full time employment years". You've been playing Factorio as the equivalent of a full time job, for 3 years and 3 months. [Edit: Many of those hours were probably background farming, so not a direct comparison.]
- herval 2y agoI read about a half hour every day. That means I probably clocked some 6 thousand hours in my lifetime. Imagine all the time I could’ve invested in playing the rat race more, in those wasted 3 years of books :(
- quesera 2y agoI am absolutely not suggesting that "full-time employment years" are better allocated to work/job/employment. Just modeling what we (US, 40hrs/wk and 50wks/yr) consider a "full-time" commitment to any task/activity.
- satvikpendem 2y agoI know lots of people who play Factorio but for me, I guess it just feels too much like work? Whenever I play it, I get the distinct feeling that I could instead do the same thing but productively instead, such as by contributing to my OSS projects (sometimes, maybe even for profit instead). I never got into these types of programmatic games for precisely this reason but I'd like to understand other perspectives on this. The games I play instead are wholly unrelated to my work life, such as FPS or RPG ones, where there is a clear distinction between what I can do and what I want to do.
- Salgat 2y agoTo me it just feels very repetitive. I don't feel clever building out factories, I just feel more like a drone doing iterative manual labor. As an engineer I just couldn't get into it.
- AtlasBarfed 2y agoFps: the US military thanks you for training for infantry in your spare time.
- satvikpendem 2y agoFunnily enough, I actually used to play America's Army 3, a game which explicitly was funded by the DoD. It was pretty fun, not gonna lie, much more tactical than many other shooters during that time.
- atrus 2y agoIt also convinced me to never join the army, because I was a bullet magnet haha.
- satvikpendem 2y agoHaha, I would never dream of actually getting shot at, lol.
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- egypturnash 2y ago> Tobias Lütke, co-founder and CEO of the ecommerce platform Shopify, lets his staff expense their copies of Factorio. “It’s just bound to be good for Shopify if people play Factorio for a little while,” he told the Invest Like The Best podcast. “Because part of Shopify is building warehouses and fulfilling products for our customers. We are building global supply chains, and Factorio makes a game out of that kind of thinking.” I wonder if they'll pay for their employees' copies of Wilmot's Warehouse, too. http://wilmotswarehouse.com http://wilmotswarehouse.com
- TYMorningCoffee 2y agoIf you've been consistently redeeming free games from Epic you might already have it. It was free on 2020-08-06[1]. [1] https://josephmate.github.io/EpicFreeGamesList/ https://josephmate.github.io/EpicFreeGamesList/
- mdaniel 2y agoFor anyone similarly confused by the "it," the Aug 6 one was Wilmot's and not Factorio (which, AFAIK, has not been a participant in any giveaway)
- fragmede 2y agoFactorio doesn't go on sale. The author's reasoning being it's disrespectful to those who paid full price for it. Edit: official forum link stating thus: https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=159626#p159626 https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=159626#p159626
- mdaniel 2y agoI'm sorry, you're right, I misread https://isthereanydeal.com/game/factorio/info/ https://isthereanydeal.com/game/factorio/info/ without checking https://isthereanydeal.com/game/factorio/history/ https://isthereanydeal.com/game/factorio/history/ which shows it was cheaper but only goes up over time
- herval 2y agoLots of comments on this thread in the vein of “I dislike this game because it’s not productive”. My honestly question is… why? Why is “being productive” this goal that has to consume your entire life?
- ninetyninenine 2y agoMost people are brainwashed by the rat race. They don't realize that all the productivity is worthless.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- barbarr 2y agoInternalized capitalism
- derektank 2y agoI'm not sure if there's any economic system that could survive long term without people being productive. Just because the farm is collectivized doesn't mean you aren't working from the crack of dawn to sunset
- herval 2y agoBeing productive doesn’t require you to be productive non-stop. It’s not good for you and will likely make you far less productive in the long run Trivia on farming: Medieval peasants worked far less than modern employees (at most 150 days a year). It was obviously harder physical work than sitting in an office all day, but they had plenty of downtime
- wiseowise 2y agoMedieval peasants also had life expectancy of 30 years, what’s your point?
- cjbgkagh 2y agoI like that it’s similar to work and that is probably why it is my favorite game. Sometimes I don’t have the intensity needed to attack a hard problem at work so I chill out and work on my factory instead. Once I notice that I’m becoming too ambitious in the game I can tell that my intensity has returned and will switch back to work. If I don’t have the energy for factorio then clearly I won’t have the energy for work so there is no point in forcing it. It’s like a halfway point between relaxation and work where I can hang out for a while before committing to either.
- esperent 2y agoMaybe it depends on the work, but for me, writing code, there's always loads of low intensity work to be done. Minor refactors, improving code clarity, writing docs, replying to technical emails etc. For me, the energy level at which I'd enjoy a game like Factorio (which I did briefly try) is exactly the energy level at which I'm most productive doing this kind of work.
- cjbgkagh 2y agoI work in applied research so it’s prototypical, fiendishly difficult, and always pushing the limits of my ability. I do mix in light duty work to try to help me get back into the flow and build up a head of steam but I don’t have enough of that kind of work. For me time spent in factorio reflects sub optimal organization usually due to not feeling 100%. It’s currently the best adjunct I’ve used to help manage my energy levels so I don’t begrudge the time spend in it. As I’ve gotten better at managing energy levels I do spend less time gaming. At ~100hrs per year and decreasing I think it’s unlikely that I’ll ever make a major dent in space age but I’m ok with that. I really only bought the new DLC as a thank you to the game devs.
- ClassyJacket 2y agoI was looking at this game this morning, it sounds fantastic fun podcasts I've listened to, but at 50 Australian dollars it'd be the most I've ever paid for a game on Steam. Someone convince me it's worth it?
- aaronscott 2y agoThey have a free demo that is fairly extensive. It should give you a good feel for whether the game is worth it to you.
- abhinavk 2y agoDon't play the demo if you have a deadline coming. I repeat.
- dalanmiller 2y agoEasily the single best bang for your buck game I have ever played. I’d still say that at AUD$100
- lowbloodsugar 2y agoFactorio provides the illusion of achievement which produces happy chemicals in my brain. I will happily forego any other work when getting my fix from factorio. So I stopped playing it and returned to interesting side projects. I confess I have purchased the recently released Space Age expansion, and my productivity is in the toilet again. I’ll probably be done with it by thanksgiving.
- jasfi 2y agoThe Civ series does the same thing for me. I've also moved on from games, although I think from time to time they may be useful for stimulating creativity.
- miiiiiike 2y agoIf you like Factorio give Shapez 2 a try. I lost a week to it recently. https://store.steampowered.com/app/2162800/shapez_2/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/2162800/shapez_2/
- mikewarot 2y agoIs there a similar game that lets you place logic gates and do computing? Bonus points if it's open source.
- fragmede 2y agoNandgame and nand2tetris both take you on a journey from discreet transistors to a computer, in the form of a game. There's also Zachatronics games' TIS-100, and Shenzhen I/O.
- vessenes 2y agoI'll offer some unsolicited rankings here for these: Level of fun/addictiveness: Factorio<<<----, Shenzhen I/O, TIS-100, Nandgame, nand2tetris Best story: Tossup for Shenzhen I/O and TIS-100, Factorio, nand2tetris, nandgame Best order if you've never coded and want to get tricked into becoming an engineer: Factorio (but hard limit yourself here to no more than 2000 hours), then TIS-100, then Shenzhen I/O, then the Nands. I think Nand2tetris is more accessible as a learning tool. Upshot - I highly recommend this list. :) Space Age (the Factorio DLC) has me wanting to do nand2tetris in Factorio now. Resisting..
- fsmv 2y agonand2tetris is a book/course not a game lol I loved it though
- edent 2y agoMindustry. It is open source and allows your to build logic gates. Works on mobile, desktop, Linux, etc.
- ornornor 2y agoAnd according to this article [0] (from the mindustry article on Wikipedia), it was a hit on prison-issued android tablets until they banned it. [0]: https://prisonjournalismproject.org/2024/03/31/popular-video-game-banned-federal-prisons/ https://prisonjournalismproject.org/2024/03/31/popular-video...
- matheusmoreira 2y ago> For me, the difference between work and fun is about the process. > If I have to do it in an inefficient way, or the way I’m told to, it feels like work. > When I have the freedom to do it my way, it feels like fun. Yeah, that resonates with me. I didn't pursue a software development career because of this. Decided to do something else and enjoy programming on my own terms. It's been alright but I still wonder what might have been.
- grahar64 2y agoThe thing I like about games is a clear objective that once achieved you have "finished". The thing I don't like about software is that no software is (or will ever be?) finished.
- jimnotgym 2y agoI don't play computer games anymore. Factorio was the last game I played. I lost a weekend and ended up with a raging headache. Before that an MMORPG did the same A year before that it was Civilization IV, exactly the same, lost an entire weekend then never played it again. I don't think I am suited to games. Or maybe I just need more free time
- piyuv 2y agoI still play games but I lost my ability to “lost myself in time” while playing games, what you’re describing does not happen to me anymore. And I dearly miss it.
- ryanjshaw 2y agoSame. In my case I have real world problems that need my attention and I struggle to justify playing games while those problems loom. Only exception is playing games with my kid, but that is time boxed.
- conductr 2y agoThe time I put into Nintendo Switch with my kid in the last year is the most I've gamed since very early 2000s
- ArlenBales 2y agoInstead of binging a game over an entire weekend and burning yourself out.. slow down, just play for an hour a week. Treat it like a weekly TV episode of a currently airing show. I follow a couple television series weekly and don't fret myself for wasted time because I only spend 2 hours a week watching them. Life is all about experiences. I am sad for those who go through life without experiencing video games in moderation. They provide one of a kind interactive experiences that you won't find anywhere else in life.
- pavel_lishin 2y ago> slow down, just play for an hour a week. Some games really reward spending more time with them, and getting into the "flow". I think playing Factorio for an hour and then stopping would just feel frustrating - like cooking up a delicious meal, eating a spoonful, and running out the door.
- Havoc 2y agoPersonally prefer Dyson sphere but to each their own
- mft_ 2y agoI've started and re-started Factorio several times, and always enjoy it... up the point where an automated train network is necessary. Here, I always run into problems, and no amount of researching or fettling of the setup seems to guarantee that my trains work. Sometimes they do... often, I have to drive them manually. Anyway, if you like Factorio, you might also enjoy Mindustry: simmilar-ish, less constructional depth, more tower-defence and fighting.
- hermannj314 2y agoMy train network ran about as good as any multi-threaded code I can write. Perfectly smooth and then a massive deadlock because my mutex locks (rail signals) have a bug.
- stacktraceyo 2y agoOr Dyson sphere program
- Hikikomori 2y agoSatisfactory is also good.
- herpdyderp 2y agoThe train logistics system in 2.0 has been vastly improved. I was just able to make a “set and forget” train automation system. All I need to do is add more stations and, when necessary, more trains. Before this updated you needed mods for this.
- RadiozRadioz 2y agoI'm terrified of Factorio. I've deliberatly avoided playing it because I know, if I do, I'll lose an entire month. Kudos to the creators on their brilliant game, it's like heroin for a particular type of brain.
- davedx 2y agoYeah I have that feeling about Path of Exile 2. I also know I won’t be able to resist.
- goda90 2y agoI was really looking forward to the expansion that came out on Monday. I chose not to play the main game anymore for the last several months. But then life threw some curve balls and I can't bring myself to buy it, knowing it would pull me away from the stuff I need to do. Hopefully soon...
- SixDouble5321 2y agoSame, but I accidentally bought Mindustry instead, so I guess I saved $20.
- Kiro 2y agoI don't agree with "Factorio is like work". The grind is no different to me than playing Diablo. It feels like a comparison that programmers love to tout because it makes for a memeable and relatable story but at its core it's just like any other gameplay loop.
- bugfix 2y agoTo me, it starts to feel like work when I have to rebuild large parts of my factory because I didn't leave enough space to expand. This process feels exactly like having to refactor a bad codebase (where you feel the urge to just start from scratch). If you plan your build properly, you can avoid this, but it takes a few runs to learn the best strategies.
- bicx 2y agoFactorio makes me realize that I don’t really like solving problems for the sake of solving problems (or optimization, for that matter). I like solving them for a tangible reason or because I I’m making someone’s life better. Problem solving and optimizing in Factorio is different than a grind in some game like Diablo. That sort of grind uses a completely different part of your brain (movement and in-the-moment decision making), and I find that I need that kind of change after a week of real-life problem solving. I imagine people who gravitate to Factorio are probably better problem solvers and optimizers than me because that’s what they truly enjoy for its own sake.
- throwaway84678 2y agoI think the new expansion helps a lot with the rebuild issue, since you're expected to have have many different bases on different planets instead of just one big base.
- seoulmetro 2y agoYou actually don't have to rebuild anything in Factorio. That's your personal decision.
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- ecocentrik 2y agoGames that require significant time investments have a tragic quality to them.
- dyauspitr 2y agoIt’s just gamified programming. I lost interest quickly.
- cartoonfoxes 2y agoEvery time I start playing Factorio it's always a matter of time before I'm trying to figure out how to solve factories with VHDL and how to interface Magic VLSI with the game's blueprints. From there it's another day or so before I'm reviewing EE graduate programs and working out how much math I would need to grind. I had this experience with Eve Online back in the day. The optimization limit horseshoes back into the real world. Case in point: just reading this thread started me learning about discrete event simulation. Damn you Factorio.
- joshstrange 2y agoFactorio isn’t like work as much as it tickles the same spots on my brain that my favorite parts of work do as well. After putting in 2K+ hours to the game I have the follow suggestions/advice for new/experienced players: * Play your first game without mods (or very limited QoL mods) * Don’t use blueprints from others online (at least in your first play through), you can watch videos if you are truly stuck but copy/pasting what others have done can ruin the fun * Don’t always try to min/max. If that’s what you like then more power to you but I often guess at things or over-provision because it lets me keep playing and not get bogged down * Before you look for blueprints online use something like Helmod or Factory Planner, blueprints can really ruin the game for me at least. The one exception is belt balancers, those are fine to copy. You can share your own blueprints between games but taking blueprints from online feels too much like cheating. Study them and reproduce them if you need to but I promise it will be more satisfying to do it yourself rather than just plopping down what someone else did. * Don’t try to build the best or “final” version of something at first. As in, build what you need now and re-evaluate later when it’s not enough. I’ve ruined the “fun” before because I was too hung up on making a production line too complicated/large/etc too early. Don’t make your first smelting operation at a scale you’d use in late game, you’ll build a new smelting setup later and that’s fine. * Go into the game blind, don’t research “the best way to do X”, your first (few) play throughs will be more fun if explore and learn on your own.
- tantricked 2y agoFactorio is just programming in disguise.