11 ms·

Windows 11 is now enabling OneDrive folder backup without asking permission

330 points by josephcsible 2y ago

MR4D 2y ago
Does anyone know if Windows 11 Pro does this too ?
whalesalad 2y ago
Seems like every 48-72 hours now Microsoft announces yet another extremely compelling reason to abandon their platform for Linux.
- noodleman 2y ago
  They've been at it for years. I'd genuinely be surprised if this cracked the top 10 worst things Microsoft have done to Windows users. I think there would need to be a concerted effort at a grass-roots level, say from r/buildapc, to get new PC gamers onto an alternative for there to be a considerable shift away from Windows.
  - Syonyk 2y ago
    > ...to get new PC gamers onto an alternative for there to be a considerable shift away from Windows. Have you tried Steam on Linux? It works amazingly well, either with native Linux support in games or through Proton support (their Windows emulation layer). Quite a few people I know have gone that route and are shocked at just how well it works in practice.
    - Zardoz84 2y ago
      It simply works. It's amazing what does now Wine/Proton
      - whalesalad 2y ago
        I was pretty blown away by how simple and straightforward the experience was for me recently on Debian 12. * Go to app store (flatpak) and install Steam * Launch and login to Steam * Install Helldivers 2 * Launch the game. Done! Everything "just works"
        dpkirchner 2y ago
        Even games with EAC and Battleye ("anti cheats") work well. That was pretty surprising.
        jsheard 2y ago
        YMMV there depending on the specific game, both of those anti-cheats can work on Linux but the developer of the game has to opt-in to allow it since their Linux implementations are much easier to bypass than their Windows ones. There's games like Rust which use EAC but have refused to enable its Linux support for that reason.
    - animalsgiraffes 2y ago
      Proton has been huge for Linux gaming, especially since the Steam Deck launched. Apple’s Game Port Toolkit is also quite promising on Mac side. Unix based OSs are seeing something of a vg renaissance.
    - janice1999 2y ago
      I recently purchased a Steam Deck and I've been blown away by how games just work. I used to use Wine a lot for applications in the early 2010s and it was always hit and miss (and Codeweaver for Office support). Proton is amazing.
      - mananaysiempre 2y ago
        > I used to use Wine a lot for applications in the early 2010s and it was always hit and miss IME Wine is still hit and miss for applications in general, even old ones. Games are just a particularly good fit here—they rarely care how well your COM marshalling or shell namespace or transactional NTFS or weird SQL-like inside Windows Installer is implemented. Not to imply that getting games to work is a simple task, just that the API surface is much less spread out, and any emulation improvements for a single game are more likely to improve support for a wider range of other games.
      - bee_rider 2y ago
        I think the discussion is tainted actually by technical people who used Wine in the bad old days, haha. I fought Wine a decade ago and it was pretty bad. If anyone had asked, I’d probably give the “dual boot, may as well keep Windows around as a glorified console” spiel. A non-technical friend got a steam deck, when I asked what OS he’d used I got a response along the lines of “oh, I guess it must be Linux.” It the thought about what OS hadn’t even occurred. The future is cool.
      - LoganDark 2y ago
        I just wish Proton supported macOS. It being Linux-only always felt like their goal was never actually cross-platform gaming, but specifically SteamOS being able to run everything.
    - talldayo 2y ago
      The Nvidia experience on the beta channel is shockingly good now, too. The big sore spot for gaming on Linux was trying to convince Nvidia users the experience was worth their time. Using 555-series drivers on GNOME Wayland right now is pretty much flawless.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - noodleman 2y ago
      I'm all in on Linux at this point - it's been usable for a long time. My comments not really about whether it works, as we know it does, it's about how we go about getting the word out there.
      - hparadiz 2y ago
        I just switched to Wayland with KDE Plasma 6.1 from KDE 5.x on X11. VR works now. Screensharing and everything you expect with other operating systems works perfectly as well.
      - squarefoot 2y ago
        Offer to install it to people who experience difficulties with Windows, and never lie about it being much simpler or N times faster; don't forget to ask first if they use any special software/hardware that requires Windows or has only Windows drivers. Offer alternatives, but always be clear that they're not the same thing. 99.9% of non professional Office users wouldn't even notice the differences with LibreOffice, but that's not a good reason to tell them that the two products are identical: they're not, but one is open and free, both in price and in how it respect the user, which for many people could count a lot more than the extra features MS Office has over LibreOffice. One thing that worked for me many times is that I always offered full support for any problems the user would encounter, and to install Windows back and for free if after a given period of time they didn't find Linux usable for them. One has to understand that the common non tech user trying Linux can't easily phone their friends, coworkers, kids, nephews, etc. not even the PC repair shop down the street and magically find a Linux expert, so they must be given something that works and is well supported. Word of mouth will do the rest: most users don't care about pervasive advertising or spyware, Closed vs Open Source etc, but others do, and they're the ones telling about Linux and bringing other users in.
    - metalspoon 2y ago
      Mandatory Google [your games] + proton first
- dan-robertson 2y ago
  Which do you think is the bigger risk to ordinary users? - someone hacks into Microsoft and accesses their files from onedrive (for passwords/blackmail-info I guess?) - Microsoft looks at their files in onedrive and does something bad (not sure what) - someone hacks into their computer and accesses their files. Or someone does so by causing the user to download something bad - the user’s ssd fails or is corrupted because they have consumer grade hardware that is not treated particularly well, taking all their documents with it. - the user accidentally deletes some important document (or eg drag-and-drops the contents of their document somewhere else and autosaves the now blank document, or they lose it some other way) I think the benefits outweigh the risks for a lot of users for this change. I don’t know how onedrive works but one could imagine it working in a reasonably secure way by encrypting data at rest (secure keys on device would be nice but bad UX; key-derivation function probably better). IMO the real problem with the feature is typical big-company lack of coordination (the amount of free storage isn’t enough for how much people typically need, even right away) and lack of incentives to fix it (the increase in paying customers is probably worth a lot more to whoever caused this change than the increase in annoyed users due to drive-full warnings) and the idea that that people might pay Microsoft for more storage (that you can’t easily pay for remote reliable automatic backup storage when you set the OS up does not feel like a particularly big advantage of free software to me). I think there are things not to like about this but it doesn’t seem to me to be the obviously terrible thing your comment suggests. Certainly it seems less bad than lots of other recent windows changes.
  - smolder 2y ago
    There's no justification here for turning the feature on for users who have already explicitly chosen not to use it, or for not presenting them with the choice.
    - dan-robertson 2y ago
      I mean, the person who caused windows to behave this way surely had some justification, even if it was self-serving. I think a choice would be better but I also think that being on is a reasonable default for users. I don’t understand the point about users explicitly opting out (and that being switched?). I would chalk such a thing down to the kind of big company systematic nefariousness you get (no one needs to say ‘make it ignore the opt out’, they just implement a default wrong and don’t notice/fix/investigate the bug because KPIs increase)
- jokoon 2y ago
  I agree. Although US intelligence is probably happy about this. Not saying it's a good or bad thing, but it's certainly an easy way to gather it. I can understand them doing it.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
LinuxBender 2y ago
As a reminder, you can always just uninstall OneDrive and call it a day. Is this really true? Does it never get reinstalled or enabled by a cumulative update?
- ziddoap 2y ago
  On my gaming rig that I've had for quite a few years now, it has never been re-enabled and I've never been nagged about it.
  - LinuxBender 2y ago
    Cool, thank-you. I put some of the OneDrive domains in my DNS overrides to see if they get tickled just in case. # I am probably missing some. Hope they are not hard coded. cat /etc/unbound/override/onedrive.conf local-zone: "storage.live.com" always_nxdomain local-zone: "onedrive.com" always_nxdomain local-zone: "1drv.com" always_nxdomain local-zone: "skyapi.live.net" always_nxdomain local-zone: "onedrive.live.com" always_nxdomain local-zone: "docs.live.net" always_nxdomain local-zone: "odwebp.svc.ms" always_nxdomain
  - Tempest1981 2y ago
    Win11 or Win10?
    - ziddoap 2y ago
      10
    - jabroni_salad 2y ago
      I updated to w11 about a month ago and my onedrive preferences (logged out and not in use) has been respected so far.
goosedragons 2y ago
Is this even new? Pretty sure I dealt with exactly this setting up a Windows 11 install last year. Had to do it multiple times too due to a flakey SSD I ended up returning.
wtallis 2y ago
Microsoft makes it a pain, but you can still jump through some CLI hoops to use only a local user account to log in to Windows, rather than the cloud-conmected Microsoft account they try to funnel you into. Not logging into a Microsoft account prevents OneDrive from doing anything other than spamming you with notifications about how great it would be if you logged in and started using it. And you can still uninstall OneDrive after every major OS update that brings it back.
- hhh 2y ago
  You can still use it offline without an account just fine with Pro SKUs and up.
  - ranger_danger 2y ago
    that shouldn't be necessary though
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    You can use offline accounts with Home as well.
  - _carbyau_ 2y ago
    Installed Windows 11 Pro, had to do some CLI dickery to get the option for local only account.
    - hhh 2y ago
      here are the steps I just used a few minutes ago to use a local account. You can do it without leaving the OOBE, but you shouldn't have to go through so many steps to do it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40781798 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40781798
    - justsomehnguy 2y ago
      ITT: people complain about 'CLI dickery' in Windows but arguing for Linux. *shrug_emoji*
hollowturtle 2y ago
To me Microsoft, Apple, Google, Facebook they all seem by a degree or another totally out of control. They seem to be so careless of any short-long term consequence that I wonder if there is any accountability at all or if it’s just a shitshow of who does perform better and get bonuses
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  They’re all monopolies. We just need to formally redefine the terminology around anti trust to punish the anti competitive nature of all these tech giants
  - pndy 2y ago
    Remember the MS case from the 90s? It didn't bring the supposed split and instead, end-users got an option to "hide" various software. The company kept its dominant position and is abusing it as we speak. Even the browser choice window enforced by the EU didn't change much IMO. Surely, Firefox managed to cut slice of market share but lost it to Chrome which heavily "promoted" their browser. In the end, we're living in a Chromium-dominated reality where even Microsoft uses it. I'd like to believe that we still can found politicians, govt officials eager to work for the public interest and against wealth of the corporations, their monopolies. But it seems almost impossible considering lack of significant and damaging to the monopolies antitrust proceedings in last 20 years. I'd assume there are deals behind public eye where govts turn, well, a blind eye - perhaps getting something valuable in return.
scrlk 2y ago
I've never found any compelling reason to set up Windows 11 (or 10) with an online account. Things like this just reinforce my decision to stick with a local account.
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  It forced me this last time I set up windows 11
  - scrlk 2y ago
    Hit Shift + F10 at the Windows 11 setup screen to open a command prompt, then enter `oobe\bypassnro`. After this, skip connecting to a network and this will allow you to create a local account. It's extremely obnoxious that they've made it this difficult.
    - ranger_danger 2y ago
      didn't work for me on 24H2 /shrug
      - tripflag 2y ago
        it worked for me on win11pro 24h2 just a few days ago; maybe you had a lan cable connected?
        9991 2y ago
        This conversation is surreal.
        ranger_danger 2y ago
        for you it was probably because it's pro... others have stated pro and above still let you go without an MS account.
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    There are several bypasses. Don't connect to the internet -> Shift + F10 to bring up CLI -> OOBE\bypassnro The out-of-box experience will restart, and you will have a button to set up with a local account. You can also (or at least could, it's been a bit since I've tried this method) use a banned e-mail account when it asks for your Microsoft account.
cjk2 2y ago
Why the hell aren't the EU and the FTC suing the shit out of them for bundling, telemetry, lock in, gouging, shitty defaults?
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  Great question.
- robotnikman 2y ago
  I've been wondering this too. The stuff Microsoft has been pulling for the last decade is just ripe for them to go after, yet all you hear is crickets.
- Syonyk 2y ago
  "It looks like you're considering investigating Microsoft! I've loaded 500 free crystals into Candy Forgecraft Extreme and launched it for you! Just play one level..." I have no idea why the EU isn't going after Microsoft with a heavy club for all the crap they're pulling lately.
  - cjk2 2y ago
    > I have no idea why the EU isn't going after Microsoft with a heavy club for all the crap they're pulling lately. Did someone get a O365 license reduction or a nice dinner out. MS rep used to take me out to dinner in the 90s to get us to use NT+Visual Basic. Free dinner with asshats - worth it. We used Solaris in the end and Sun only gave us hats.
  - BoredPositron 2y ago
    The last time, they built a new physical (lol) office and convinced an entire state to abandon their custom Linux setup and switch back to Office 365. Looking at you Bavaria...
    - number6 2y ago
      Holtstein is trying the same now. They just switched to Linux.
ranger_danger 2y ago
Jokes on them, I only use local accounts
- davidkellis 2y ago
  You to today (I do too). May not tomorrow: https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/microsoft-account-to-local-account-conversion-guide-erased-from-official-windows-11-guide-instructions-redacted-earlier-this-week https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/microsoft-acco...
rochak 2y ago
[flagged]
- IshKebab 2y ago
  Windows 10 is very solid. I'm going to assume it will get updates for about as long as Windows XP did... I'll re-evaluate when they actually EoL it. Who knows, maybe that will be the year of the Linux desktop! (Spoilers: no.)
  - apantel 2y ago
    Agree re: Windows 10 (Pro). Though even with all the crap I’ve turned off, I can’t help but wonder what Microsoft is taking from my machine without my knowledge.
  - skeeter2020 2y ago
    Next October (2025) is the end of the road, because my desktop can't be upgraded to Win11 and they tell me that about once a month.
    - branon 2y ago
      October 2025 is EOL for 22H2, but 1809 LTSC is supported until 2029.
      - silverwind 2y ago
        There's also IoT LTSC that goes til 2032.
    - DEADMINCE 2y ago
      > they tell me that about once a month. So fix that.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
If Microsoft is determined to make money from One Drive, could they please improve the product? My work laptop routinely pegs a core doing who knows what. When there is something to backup, the throughout is beyond atrocious. Microsoft has all of the apis available to monitor changes on its own file system. Why does their solution seemingly run naive file comparisons to detect changes? What is it doing burning all of that computation time? Why does it struggle with tracking 100k files? A bubble sort written in Ruby should be able to handle 100k anything in seconds.
- kentm 2y ago
  Indeed. After being brow beat into using it MS rewarded me by syncing my personal PCs desktop shortcuts to the family PC resulting in a screen full of broken shortcuts. Good jorb MS.
- BoredPositron 2y ago
  Interestingly, OneDrive is likely the only Microsoft QT app. It's amusing that the applications they aim to integrate most into their system are no longer native. Last month, they crippled Windows Co-Pilot by replacing the native app with an EdgeWebView, which has significantly less system integration.
Syonyk 2y ago
I'm not the target market for Windows, haven't been for a while. But I genuinely cannot figure out what Microsoft's vision for Windows 11 is. Or if they even have one beyond "idk, shove crap in, meet OKR, get promotion... maybe?" For a while, it seemed like they were focused on making sure that they could link as much of your activity on your computer to you, as a person - witness the ever-increasing challenge of an offline-only account, which means the value of knowing the email address of the signed in user is substantial. And then they embedded ad delivery as a first class participant in the platform - the sort of crap that used to be common from people who installed Bonzai Dancer Cursor Free or such is now literally part of the OS. ... and then it's just gone weird. AI with Copilot, Recall, etc. There doesn't appear to be a coherent vision of what it is, beyond a place to shovel crap, deliver unwanted applications (that they get paid to shove at people, presumably), and install lots of updates. Linux has problems, but there are no shortage of distros that just run apps, without delivering all your behavioral surplus up for collection, and that's what (IMO) an OS should be. Windows 11, from the outside, doesn't look like it's serving me. Except in the sense that it's focused on "serving me to Microsoft for further subversion of my will." ... and apparently Windows will now orange screen? Last time someone offered to let me touch a Windows machine, it orange screened in protest before I could even touch anything. At least the feeling is mutual.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  Probably incorrect conspiracy theory: with the success of Azure and also due to basic common sense, anyone inside MS that gives even the smallest shit about OS quality is a huge Linux fan. But, they have this awful legacy OS dragging them down, they can’t get rid of it because of various contracts and general shareholder expectations. They added as much Linux to it as they could really get away with, and their only good program (VSCode) has been ported and works perfectly fine on Linux, so things are mostly looking OK. The only thing left to do is to tank Windows and get rid of that legacy support burden once and for all.
  - keyringlight 2y ago
    I think it's that, plus following where the money is coming from. While it's nigh-impossible to get retail customers to pay for windows and they want to get enterprise used to the idea of bringing everything into their 365 services, windows will be seen as a loss leader for other parts of the business, which includes advertising. Similarly I think google's purchase of doubleclick had a large influence over the years, android and chrome were in part ventures to present their ads.
MR4D 2y ago
Seems like a great place to store tons of ISO's.
- the_snooze 2y ago
  Or randomly generated bits.
elorant 2y ago
Why is Win11 such a pain though? I don't get it. You had Win10 that worked just fine and they went on and fucked it up to what gain? Did they manage to sell more of other products in their lineup? And you do all that when Apple has its own silicon and produces superb laptops that could lure a lot of people in their ecosystem. I understand that Windows isn't the cash cow it used to be, they've moved to greener pastures like Azure, but still why mess up your main trademark product and piss off so many of your users? What's the end goal here?
- steve_taylor 2y ago
  Presumably, the Windows team has various targets to meet in terms of ARPU and things of that nature.
- okanat 2y ago
  The data they collect for the AI and the advertising opportunities enable more profits and more revenue to keep infinite growth happening. Even with Azure, even with Github and everything else. If you're not using all the profit opportunities, you are not delivering enough. The economic system doesn't reward or demand stable profits or sustainable growth, it demands compound growth.
  - Fauntleroy 2y ago
    This, exactly. Things will only continue to get more shitty as long as the expectation, and often requirement, for businesses with investors is to make infinite money, forever.
    - adventured 2y ago
      That has been the expectation the entire time computing has existed. It will always be the expectation. There is no future where that isn't going to be true. What actually happens is a cycle. Things rise, things fall, things die. On the initial upswing things tend to get better while profit and growth are aggressively pursued. Once market dominance is achieved, things tend to get shitty thereafter until someone topples the stagnant product. This is a legitimate opportunity for Linux + hardware partners, if someone can finally realize they need to build and market to average consumers, rather than expecting average consumers to skill-up / knowledge-up just to use their software.
starik36 2y ago
This does not fill me with confidence that they won't pull the same crap with Recall.
jjoergensen 2y ago
How is this not a compliance risk? Automatically transferring data, including personal data, to the cloud without explicit consent raises GDPR concerns.
- rhdunn 2y ago
  And HIPPA, NDA, legal (lawyers storing client info/details), trade secrets, etc. issues.
okasaki 2y ago
I recently reinstalled Windows Home. It's not possible to install a local account any more. Apparently all the loopholes have been closed. It just loops you back to the "oops looks like you lost internet access" page. I made a new account - installer<date>@outlook.com with no@thankyou.com as the backup email (which you have to give). Microsoft didn't like that, so it made me go through 10 minutes of captchas (captcas in the OS install - wtf) Then it forced me to give it my birth date, ostensibly to check if I'm of age. Could just ask "are you older than 13" but then you don't get that sweet data. Finally I booted into the OS, and I made a local account. I spent 30 minutes going through the awful menus trying and probably failing to disable all the crap that sends all my data to Microsoft. Some of which can't be disabled in the Home edition. Then I tried to delete my "installer" account. Oops, sorry, we have to "verify" who you are by sending an email to no@thankyou.com. Oh, you don't have that? No worries, just give us your real email address and we'll allow you to log you in after 30 days. Then later I check my real name gmail account and there's a Microsoft email with a login code. I never gave MS this email address. What the hell??
- ziddoap 2y ago
  >It's not possible to install a local account any more. Apparently all the loopholes have been closed. It just loops you back to the "oops looks like you lost internet access" page. This simply isn't true, I did a computer with Windows 11 Home 3 days ago with local accounts. OOBE\bypassnro still works as expected.
  - okasaki 2y ago
    No it doesn't.
    - ziddoap 2y ago
      Yes, it does. I'm not the only one in this thread, the other Windows thread from today, or online that has installed Windows 11 Home in the last week and successfully setup local-only accounts. When dozens of people say it still works and one says it doesn't, chances are the one person did it incorrectly. It works.
amanzi 2y ago
I'm all for hating on Microsoft for their continued destruction of the local Windows 11 experience, but I actually think this is a good decision. Assuming you're logging in with a Microsoft account, and assuming you have a OneDrive account, it's a better experience to set up the folder backup feature as early as possible in the set-up process. If you really don't want it, it's easy to undo. I still don't like being forced to log in with a Microsoft account as part of the set-up. I prefer to log in locally, and then incrementally turn on the cloud features. But I've voted with my wallet and have moved to Linux and macOS for day-to-day desktop computing. I still keep a Windows 10 VM around for when I need it, but am doing all I can to avoid the "modern" Windows desktop experience.
- Bilal_io 2y ago
  > Assuming you're logging in with a Microsoft account The whole issue lies within this assumption. Microsoft does not want you to use a local account, and they make it extremely difficult to setup your Windows machine without one.
  - amanzi 2y ago
    Yep - I agree with that. I set up a Windows 11 machine recently and was still able to create a local account. I'm sure there will be ways to defeat the new requirement. I haven't tried this, but even if they forced a Microsoft account during set up, couldn't you just create a local admin account once logged in, then log in with that account and delete the first profile?
    - amanzi 2y ago
      Replying to myself - I just tried this and it works as expected. After initial set-up with a Microsoft account, you can create a local account and log in with that instead (and also delete the first Microsoft account too).
- MissTake 2y ago
  > I actually think this is a good decision Whatever happened to just, I dunno, asking what to do? > But I've voted with my wallet and have moved to Linux and macOS for day-to-day desktop computing As did I about 7 years ago. Still have to use Windows servers at work, but I’m even supplanting many of those with Linux servers as and when I can
anothername12 2y ago
I just use it for playing games on steam, but lately it’s annoying even for that. I tried steam on Linux with proton and whatnot. It works okish, but there were too many issues with screen flickering. The Xorg/Wayland/nvidia info out there made it too confusing to deal with work arounds. A younger me would have persisted though. So it looks like I’m in it for another Windows-issued flogging at least.
whatever1 2y ago
Meanwhile they have crippled the native file history and backup options of the OS. I was desperate until I found an excellent multiplatform open source project for backups called Kopia! Highly recommended, even entry level users can work with it.
- timbit42 2y ago
  Copying your files to the cloud is not a backup when deleting a file means it's gone forever. What if you accidentally delete some files and need them back? You need a real backup for that, not a cloud.
  - whatever1 2y ago
    I am using Kopia with my local smb shared array. No cloud or whatsoever.
TheRealPomax 2y ago
It'd be so nice if Windows went back to offering three tiers: home, which assumes you want to log in and get on with your life and you don't care what the defaults are as long as things just work(tm); Pro, which assumes you know what you want and doesn't give you that unless you ask for it; and Enterprise, which assumes you're made of money and it's literally several people's jobs to manage your windows installs org-wide. So we can just buy Pro and know we're getting an OS that we can configure instead of an OS that gets hijacked by Microsoft every single windows update cycle.
slavik81 2y ago
Tech companies in general seem to struggle with consent. Even when they bother to ask, they often refuse to take "no" for an answer, only offering "maybe later."
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  > Tech companies in general seem to struggle with consent. This is why Louis Rossman started describing these behaviors as a “rapist mentality” of tech companies. It’s a violation of consent, an exploitation of their anti-competitive size (yes just their size is inherently a problem that distorts the market).
  - kyboren 2y ago
    These tech companies have gotten very comfortable pimping out their users to advertisers. They already believe they own your ass; if they perceive some benefit to it, why would they not just rape users directly? And whatcha gonna do about it? Run to one of the 2 or 3 other pimps who treat their bitches with equal contempt?
  - DaoVeles 2y ago
    Louis is spot on with the description. While he was no saint, this was something Steve Jobs emphasized - Let the people know about it and make the decision themselves. Many would probably be happy to do it but don't just force it.
  - qingcharles 2y ago
    Wow, that's actually a really fitting description -- basically harass you constantly and refuse to take "no" for answer.
- DaoVeles 2y ago
  I find it just weird that 1. They think that this should be a default option that people would want. 2. They assume everyone just has unlimited data to use. My parents laptop is on a very limited mobile connection in which they do all their photography stuff on. This move would just chew through a years worth of their internet data in one swift move. Just an outright idiotic move.
mianos 2y ago
At least a Mac alllows you to have a local account without iCloud. We are not allowed iCloud accounts on our work lappies due to the risk of client data leakage. It seems to me, unless the Microsoft cloud is 100% trusted you would not be able to use it at many places. (We do have centrally managed computers and accounts).
- nofunsir 2y ago
  Microsoft cloud is[1] indeed trusted: "Office 365 GCC High"[2]. [1] Read: "can be" [2] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/office365/servicedescriptions/office-365-platform-service-description/office-365-us-government/gcc-high-and-dod https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/office365/servicedescripti...
- ilamont 2y ago
  Tangential: If you use Office on your Mac, it is impossible to use your own hard drive as the default save location, or remove OneDrive as an option. https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/all/i-want-to-default-files-saving-on-my-mac-onedrive/3f09fa84-0bd1-4c2b-8097-a76279406a61 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/all/i-wan... Very, very frustrating for non-technical family members who can't find files in Documents or some other local hard drive location.
- walterbell 2y ago
  > We are not allowed iCloud accounts on our work lappies Is it possible to have an Apple account for apps and security updates, without iCloud? On iOS, the default login panel in Settings will sign into both iCloud and App Store. To avoid iCloud, one must use the App Store app to sign into "Media and Purchases", rather than using Settings.
  - mianos 2y ago
    Yes. It would be a pretty useless lappy if I did not get updates. Oh, no app store as well. Installations come through something called jamf. Updates are controlled centrally. In fact if you find one of our lappies on the street, it's pretty much useless as it's somehow connected to apple and our account. A full install from USB comes right up to a work login. I got a broken one once and fixed it (PCB level repair) thinking I'll just use it myself as it was to be thrown out. In the end I just sent it back to the mothership. I have a home desktop as well, and I don't find the work one much harder to use.
generic92034 2y ago
So what kind of Windows 11 is running on my PC? System info says Win 11 Pro, but I am only using a local account, was never prompted for an MS account, get no ads nowhere, no nag screens for upselling office/OneDrive/etc. What kind of magic did the PC vendor perform for me?
ffhhj 2y ago
Just run O&O ShutUp10++ after each update to cleanup M$ dark patterns.
- timbit42 2y ago
  We shouldn't have to do that. Also, I don't always know when there has been an update.
suby 2y ago
This happened to me. I was wondering why my internet speeds were slow when I discovered that Microsoft was in the process of uploading my users directory, they had already uploaded almost two gigs when I realized. They also changed the path to these directories to something like C:\Users\name\OneDrive\Desktop\. Another poster in this thread claimed it's easy to reverse -- I disagree, it's a pain in the ass to track down the setting, and I shouldn't have to do this. When I did, it gave me an error for one of the directories and refuses to revert (documents?). I don't like leaving negative or hyperbolic comments on HN, but this was enraging and unacceptable to me. It's hard to convey without coming off as unhinged. I only ever boot into Windows nowadays when I need to compile and test a Windows build of software. I understand Microsoft has built up good will through efforts like VS Code, but it's all undone because of things like this. I avoid MS products, they cannot be trusted.
- tyleo 2y ago
  This is almost my exact experience too.
  - sorry_outta_gas 2y ago
    It's annoying but it's a smart move, once they get you to hit that low 5gb onedrive limit it's a easy path to get you on a office365 sub for the extra storage.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
  << It's hard to convey without coming off as unhinged. I almost wonder if this is by design. I genuinely had people look at me funny when I described relatively minor issues that eventually made me jump from Windows ( in my case I think it was dropping detailed descriptions from updates in Windows 7 ). I kept explaining that even the issues are not the actual issue. The issue is that I am unable to administer my machine as I see fit. I am not anti-tech, I tell people, but the tech has to work for me...
- gear54rus 2y ago
  Did you login with ms account? if so, why? I don't think it can upload if you aren't logged in.
lkdfjlkdfjlg 2y ago
Stallman is always right, if only you're willing to wait long enough.
givemeethekeys 2y ago
They're going back to dark tactics. Ads galore to nudge you into signing up for a Microsoft account, then an office 365 account. It's annoying and I'm going to switch to Linux.
amindeed 2y ago
Is using server editions of Windows as desktop OSs any better? I mean in regards to making such changes (without explicit user's consent, at least) and wasting system resources with [background running] junkware, for instance.
- Krssst 2y ago
  At some point they had a 6 month trial for Server editions. It was a bit clunky to setup (audio support is not installed by default and I had to dig the old Xbox controller driver for W7 I think) but is otherwise a pretty good experience. Absolutely zero bullshit features installed and never changes things on its own. The only issues I had were the version check of the Oculus installer (praise the soul on reddit who described how to bypass it with dnSpy), and some COD game refused to work on it too (too old, maybe it wanted a newer feature update).
  - amindeed 2y ago
    > Absolutely zero bullshit features installed and never changes things on its own. That's it. For me, that's [unfortunately] the only "realistic" alternative out there, if one wouldn't mind the extra bucks, is somehow dependent on Windows environment and/or has no time to keep hacking and experiencing with Linux desktops. I've grown to love Linux as a wonderful server OS, and as an occasional Desktop OS to play with on a VM. Unless you're a hacker (at both work and in your free time), it's hard to keep using Linux as a main daily Desktop OS.
tylerchilds 2y ago
This is the same folder with the every three seconds screenshot feature or no?
tylerchilds 2y ago
This is the same folder as the every three second screenshot feature?
Overtonwindow 2y ago
I had to go into the registry to break Microsoft Word from constantly wanting to save my documents to the cloud. It’s absolutely awful.
europeanNyan 2y ago
Just this weekend, I've decided to nuke my Windows 11 drive because of Recall and all the shitty practives and give a sweet extra 1GB SSD to Linux Mint for storage. Didn't know Microsoft would give me additional reasons to feel good for doing it. I'm not missing anything. I've got the newest Nvidia drivers and kernel which were all very easy to install and one search away to find instructions on how to do it. Everything is rock solid. No surprise dark patterns, no enabling/disabling of issues. I keep Timeshift backups of the last 2 days and one for last week and month. If whatever I am playing with on the system goes haywire, I just restore my system with Timeshift. I've also been giving up on modern gaming, too much enshittification (loot boxes, engagement driven gameplay, messages for modern audiences, etc.) happening lately, but everything I've thrown at Proton ran great. I've been rediscovering the great libraries of retro gaming consoles, especially the DS and 3DS so my computer is actually a workhorse now and my gaming is single player retro bliss.
evantbyrne 2y ago
Yesterday I found out that OneDrive was silently running on startup on my Windows 10 machine, only because I went to disable the EA launcher. Have never used it on that machine.
usernamed7 2y ago
And this is another example of why i left windows. No matter how much customization I make, microsoft makes it very clear that it's theirs and that I am along for their ride. I find this absolutely intolerable, a total violation of privacy, and totally in poor taste; which, is at least on brand for microsoft. It seems like microsoft can do whatever they want to windows, and treat the users with as little disregard as they please - and there will be no consequences. Their users will either allow it, or jump through the config registry to disable the latest unwanted behavior.
yard2010 2y ago
New cancer from Microsoft is exciting news. But I'm still dealing with the candy crash AIDS. How can I remove this crap from my computer? And also is there a way to remove the ads? Do they have some kind of an extortion plan like Google or I'll have to hack myself through it? Enshitification ensues.
Kim_Bruning 2y ago
Isn't it illegal to copy documents off of a system without permission in many jurisdictions?
- squarefoot 2y ago
  Unless that permission is buried somewhere in the EULA every user must accept before installation.
  - Kim_Bruning 2y ago
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/UseTerms/Retail/Windows/11/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_11_English.htm https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/UseTerms/Retail/Windows/11/U... Clause 3. may seem to permit it, but the privacy statement it refers to at https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement states "When we ask you to provide personal data, you can decline." In this case the way it is described, there was no request for the personal data, and no opportunity to decline. I think you'd need a lawyer to look at it further.
- Kim_Bruning 2y ago
  https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1030 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1030 CFAA (a)(2)(C) In many cases, couldn't this be argued to exceed authorized access to a protected computer?
  - hparadiz 2y ago
    It's theft. Criminal charges now.
mechhacker 2y ago
Feeling vindicated in having gotten rid of my windows comps and gmail. I used to have a dedicated linux box but lately have been preferring the ease of macs. Maybe one day I'll get another linux desktop up, or just run it on the m2.
- DaoVeles 2y ago
  I don't think I have had a Windows machine in my home for over 15 years now. I also have an air gapped Haiku OS Machine for when I just want to get some work done. I did also have a 2011 Macbook Pro until last year, it was used daily until the entire thing just packed it in one day in a spectacular fashion. Plugged a tablet in and the entire power system just failed. It was already on its death bed before that.
cyanydeez 2y ago
Definely part of tge Copilot iniative. Remember when openai and dropbox had to clarify that you had to agree to let openai scan your box for integration? This is basically the same. They want your files to start doing copilot in the cloud for you' It doesnt work to keep your data even if you acceptbthe premise that they wont keep yourbdata.
mococa 2y ago
I do not understand, windows 10 was so good.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
TheRoque 2y ago
Once I have my (now ex) girlfriend at home, and she wanted to check her email. So she used my computer to login on Outlook and just do her thing for work. Little did I know that logging to Outlook actually added some new account on my computer (for the same windows User), and it started to sync all the stuff from my ex's workplace. Fast forward 1 month later, we broke up, and I was still seeing her stuff popping on my computer, as "recently opened" in the file explorer, or "recommended" in the start menu. Since we recently broke up it was really affecting my mood to be constantly reminded of her. I struggled for like 3 months to find the option to deactivate it. I even considered formating my computer. It really felt like a private space violation, like my computer wasn't even my own, and all that just with a naive email login followed buy a ton of implicit behaviors.
- freedomben 2y ago
  See any documents titled "My Revenge Plan against TheRogue.docx" ?
  - TheRoque 2y ago
    Luckily there wasn't any weird content, just work stuff and memes with colleagues. I couldn't even open the files because it was locked under her login/password, literally just see the thumbnails and titles of the file. It's such a weird feature. Imagine opening your file explorer and seeing the attached files of your ex's emails, updated live, it's a nightmare I swear.
    - freedomben 2y ago
      That's so wild! It does sound like a nightmare. Also a catastrophic violation of privacy (by MS).
      - tremon 2y ago
        Not just violation of privacy; since this was her work account, MS is also leaking private company correspondence.
bparsons 2y ago
I love windows, but OneDrive made my experience on 11 nearly unusable. I never knew where anything was saved because of these indistinguishable, parallel file systems. The implementation was awful.
domador 2y ago
I am a lifetime Windows user (30+ years) and generally a laggard when it comes to adopting new products. However, during the past year, I've given more than a passing thought to biting the bullet and enduring the pain of moving to another OS (probably some Linux distro.) I'm a power user and a lover of good UI and it makes me very angry when a company destroys their product's user experience through awkward, clueless, and invasive marketing initiatives. Its weird how Microsoft seems intent on making their otherwise loyal customers increasingly distrustful of them by threatening to record everything that happens on their screens (if I recall correctly) and now by copying all their files to the cloud, whether you want to or not. Hey, Microsoft: If you want to turn Windows into a bigger cash cow, how about charging a yearly fee for security patches, but then leaving Windows just the way it is (ideally at around the Windows 7 or Windows 10 mark), instead of encouraging your most loyal users to despise your product and start fantasizing about otherwise-uncomfortable alternatives? In any case, it's now increasingly likely that I won't follow you onto Windows 11. But go ahead, feel free to jump off the cliff by yourself, if you insist.
bastard_op 2y ago
Microsoft will shrug off their "experiment" in cramming something they want down your throat as an "accident", like they always do after public backlash. If they get away with it, "great!", otherwise "sorry we stepped on your privacy, again." Mean time, they got all your personal files to train their AI on, didn't they?
imarkphillips 2y ago
Does anyone seriously use Microsoft OneDrive for backup? It's 300,000 file limit means pretty much no developer would risk it considering the thousands of files in a typical app. Believe me when OneDrive lost a heap of my files this year I was not impressed to learn of this serious limitation. To be fair GoogleDrive and DropBox also have similar limitations. Azure Storage on the other hand doesn't have the limitation, is much cheaper and much faster. It's UI sux though. I'm still searching for a reasonable cloud backup solution. Until then cheap external drives are the answer.
- hengheng 2y ago
  Wait, so I can just run a little script that creates 400k useless files in the first directory it crawls, and then my data is safe from embezzlement?
- rldjbpin 2y ago
  i was unaware about the limitation. the experience sucks too much to put that limit to test as it is.
ifyoubuildit 2y ago
A relative ran into this a year ago and I was blown away. I posted an ask hn about it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35138349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35138349

330 points by josephcsible 2y ago

MR4D 2y ago

Does anyone know if Windows 11 Pro does this too ?

Seems like every 48-72 hours now Microsoft announces yet another extremely compelling reason to abandon their platform for Linux.

noodleman 2y ago
They've been at it for years. I'd genuinely be surprised if this cracked the top 10 worst things Microsoft have done to Windows users. I think there would need to be a concerted effort at a grass-roots level, say from r/buildapc, to get new PC gamers onto an alternative for there to be a considerable shift away from Windows.
- Syonyk 2y ago
  > ...to get new PC gamers onto an alternative for there to be a considerable shift away from Windows. Have you tried Steam on Linux? It works amazingly well, either with native Linux support in games or through Proton support (their Windows emulation layer). Quite a few people I know have gone that route and are shocked at just how well it works in practice.
  - Zardoz84 2y ago
    It simply works. It's amazing what does now Wine/Proton
    - whalesalad 2y ago
      I was pretty blown away by how simple and straightforward the experience was for me recently on Debian 12. * Go to app store (flatpak) and install Steam * Launch and login to Steam * Install Helldivers 2 * Launch the game. Done! Everything "just works"
      - dpkirchner 2y ago
        Even games with EAC and Battleye ("anti cheats") work well. That was pretty surprising.
        jsheard 2y ago
        YMMV there depending on the specific game, both of those anti-cheats can work on Linux but the developer of the game has to opt-in to allow it since their Linux implementations are much easier to bypass than their Windows ones. There's games like Rust which use EAC but have refused to enable its Linux support for that reason.
  - animalsgiraffes 2y ago
    Proton has been huge for Linux gaming, especially since the Steam Deck launched. Apple’s Game Port Toolkit is also quite promising on Mac side. Unix based OSs are seeing something of a vg renaissance.
  - janice1999 2y ago
    I recently purchased a Steam Deck and I've been blown away by how games just work. I used to use Wine a lot for applications in the early 2010s and it was always hit and miss (and Codeweaver for Office support). Proton is amazing.
    - mananaysiempre 2y ago
      > I used to use Wine a lot for applications in the early 2010s and it was always hit and miss IME Wine is still hit and miss for applications in general, even old ones. Games are just a particularly good fit here—they rarely care how well your COM marshalling or shell namespace or transactional NTFS or weird SQL-like inside Windows Installer is implemented. Not to imply that getting games to work is a simple task, just that the API surface is much less spread out, and any emulation improvements for a single game are more likely to improve support for a wider range of other games.
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      I think the discussion is tainted actually by technical people who used Wine in the bad old days, haha. I fought Wine a decade ago and it was pretty bad. If anyone had asked, I’d probably give the “dual boot, may as well keep Windows around as a glorified console” spiel. A non-technical friend got a steam deck, when I asked what OS he’d used I got a response along the lines of “oh, I guess it must be Linux.” It the thought about what OS hadn’t even occurred. The future is cool.
    - LoganDark 2y ago
      I just wish Proton supported macOS. It being Linux-only always felt like their goal was never actually cross-platform gaming, but specifically SteamOS being able to run everything.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    The Nvidia experience on the beta channel is shockingly good now, too. The big sore spot for gaming on Linux was trying to convince Nvidia users the experience was worth their time. Using 555-series drivers on GNOME Wayland right now is pretty much flawless.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - noodleman 2y ago
    I'm all in on Linux at this point - it's been usable for a long time. My comments not really about whether it works, as we know it does, it's about how we go about getting the word out there.
    - hparadiz 2y ago
      I just switched to Wayland with KDE Plasma 6.1 from KDE 5.x on X11. VR works now. Screensharing and everything you expect with other operating systems works perfectly as well.
    - squarefoot 2y ago
      Offer to install it to people who experience difficulties with Windows, and never lie about it being much simpler or N times faster; don't forget to ask first if they use any special software/hardware that requires Windows or has only Windows drivers. Offer alternatives, but always be clear that they're not the same thing. 99.9% of non professional Office users wouldn't even notice the differences with LibreOffice, but that's not a good reason to tell them that the two products are identical: they're not, but one is open and free, both in price and in how it respect the user, which for many people could count a lot more than the extra features MS Office has over LibreOffice. One thing that worked for me many times is that I always offered full support for any problems the user would encounter, and to install Windows back and for free if after a given period of time they didn't find Linux usable for them. One has to understand that the common non tech user trying Linux can't easily phone their friends, coworkers, kids, nephews, etc. not even the PC repair shop down the street and magically find a Linux expert, so they must be given something that works and is well supported. Word of mouth will do the rest: most users don't care about pervasive advertising or spyware, Closed vs Open Source etc, but others do, and they're the ones telling about Linux and bringing other users in.
  - metalspoon 2y ago
    Mandatory Google [your games] + proton first
dan-robertson 2y ago
Which do you think is the bigger risk to ordinary users? - someone hacks into Microsoft and accesses their files from onedrive (for passwords/blackmail-info I guess?) - Microsoft looks at their files in onedrive and does something bad (not sure what) - someone hacks into their computer and accesses their files. Or someone does so by causing the user to download something bad - the user’s ssd fails or is corrupted because they have consumer grade hardware that is not treated particularly well, taking all their documents with it. - the user accidentally deletes some important document (or eg drag-and-drops the contents of their document somewhere else and autosaves the now blank document, or they lose it some other way) I think the benefits outweigh the risks for a lot of users for this change. I don’t know how onedrive works but one could imagine it working in a reasonably secure way by encrypting data at rest (secure keys on device would be nice but bad UX; key-derivation function probably better). IMO the real problem with the feature is typical big-company lack of coordination (the amount of free storage isn’t enough for how much people typically need, even right away) and lack of incentives to fix it (the increase in paying customers is probably worth a lot more to whoever caused this change than the increase in annoyed users due to drive-full warnings) and the idea that that people might pay Microsoft for more storage (that you can’t easily pay for remote reliable automatic backup storage when you set the OS up does not feel like a particularly big advantage of free software to me). I think there are things not to like about this but it doesn’t seem to me to be the obviously terrible thing your comment suggests. Certainly it seems less bad than lots of other recent windows changes.
- smolder 2y ago
  There's no justification here for turning the feature on for users who have already explicitly chosen not to use it, or for not presenting them with the choice.
  - dan-robertson 2y ago
    I mean, the person who caused windows to behave this way surely had some justification, even if it was self-serving. I think a choice would be better but I also think that being on is a reasonable default for users. I don’t understand the point about users explicitly opting out (and that being switched?). I would chalk such a thing down to the kind of big company systematic nefariousness you get (no one needs to say ‘make it ignore the opt out’, they just implement a default wrong and don’t notice/fix/investigate the bug because KPIs increase)
jokoon 2y ago
I agree. Although US intelligence is probably happy about this. Not saying it's a good or bad thing, but it's certainly an easy way to gather it. I can understand them doing it.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

LinuxBender 2y ago

As a reminder, you can always just uninstall OneDrive and call it a day. Is this really true? Does it never get reinstalled or enabled by a cumulative update?

ziddoap 2y ago
On my gaming rig that I've had for quite a few years now, it has never been re-enabled and I've never been nagged about it.
- LinuxBender 2y ago
  Cool, thank-you. I put some of the OneDrive domains in my DNS overrides to see if they get tickled just in case. # I am probably missing some. Hope they are not hard coded. cat /etc/unbound/override/onedrive.conf local-zone: "storage.live.com" always_nxdomain local-zone: "onedrive.com" always_nxdomain local-zone: "1drv.com" always_nxdomain local-zone: "skyapi.live.net" always_nxdomain local-zone: "onedrive.live.com" always_nxdomain local-zone: "docs.live.net" always_nxdomain local-zone: "odwebp.svc.ms" always_nxdomain
- Tempest1981 2y ago
  Win11 or Win10?
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    10
  - jabroni_salad 2y ago
    I updated to w11 about a month ago and my onedrive preferences (logged out and not in use) has been respected so far.

goosedragons 2y ago

Is this even new? Pretty sure I dealt with exactly this setting up a Windows 11 install last year. Had to do it multiple times too due to a flakey SSD I ended up returning.

wtallis 2y ago

Microsoft makes it a pain, but you can still jump through some CLI hoops to use only a local user account to log in to Windows, rather than the cloud-conmected Microsoft account they try to funnel you into. Not logging into a Microsoft account prevents OneDrive from doing anything other than spamming you with notifications about how great it would be if you logged in and started using it. And you can still uninstall OneDrive after every major OS update that brings it back.

hhh 2y ago
You can still use it offline without an account just fine with Pro SKUs and up.
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  that shouldn't be necessary though
- ziddoap 2y ago
  You can use offline accounts with Home as well.
- _carbyau_ 2y ago
  Installed Windows 11 Pro, had to do some CLI dickery to get the option for local only account.
  - hhh 2y ago
    here are the steps I just used a few minutes ago to use a local account. You can do it without leaving the OOBE, but you shouldn't have to go through so many steps to do it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40781798 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40781798
  - justsomehnguy 2y ago
    ITT: people complain about 'CLI dickery' in Windows but arguing for Linux. *shrug_emoji*

hollowturtle 2y ago

To me Microsoft, Apple, Google, Facebook they all seem by a degree or another totally out of control. They seem to be so careless of any short-long term consequence that I wonder if there is any accountability at all or if it’s just a shitshow of who does perform better and get bonuses

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
They’re all monopolies. We just need to formally redefine the terminology around anti trust to punish the anti competitive nature of all these tech giants
- pndy 2y ago
  Remember the MS case from the 90s? It didn't bring the supposed split and instead, end-users got an option to "hide" various software. The company kept its dominant position and is abusing it as we speak. Even the browser choice window enforced by the EU didn't change much IMO. Surely, Firefox managed to cut slice of market share but lost it to Chrome which heavily "promoted" their browser. In the end, we're living in a Chromium-dominated reality where even Microsoft uses it. I'd like to believe that we still can found politicians, govt officials eager to work for the public interest and against wealth of the corporations, their monopolies. But it seems almost impossible considering lack of significant and damaging to the monopolies antitrust proceedings in last 20 years. I'd assume there are deals behind public eye where govts turn, well, a blind eye - perhaps getting something valuable in return.

scrlk 2y ago

I've never found any compelling reason to set up Windows 11 (or 10) with an online account. Things like this just reinforce my decision to stick with a local account.

dyauspitr 2y ago
It forced me this last time I set up windows 11
- scrlk 2y ago
  Hit Shift + F10 at the Windows 11 setup screen to open a command prompt, then enter `oobe\bypassnro`. After this, skip connecting to a network and this will allow you to create a local account. It's extremely obnoxious that they've made it this difficult.
  - ranger_danger 2y ago
    didn't work for me on 24H2 /shrug
    - tripflag 2y ago
      it worked for me on win11pro 24h2 just a few days ago; maybe you had a lan cable connected?
      - 9991 2y ago
        This conversation is surreal.
      - ranger_danger 2y ago
        for you it was probably because it's pro... others have stated pro and above still let you go without an MS account.
- ziddoap 2y ago
  There are several bypasses. Don't connect to the internet -> Shift + F10 to bring up CLI -> OOBE\bypassnro The out-of-box experience will restart, and you will have a button to set up with a local account. You can also (or at least could, it's been a bit since I've tried this method) use a banned e-mail account when it asks for your Microsoft account.

cjk2 2y ago

Why the hell aren't the EU and the FTC suing the shit out of them for bundling, telemetry, lock in, gouging, shitty defaults?

AlexandrB 2y ago
Great question.
robotnikman 2y ago
I've been wondering this too. The stuff Microsoft has been pulling for the last decade is just ripe for them to go after, yet all you hear is crickets.
Syonyk 2y ago
"It looks like you're considering investigating Microsoft! I've loaded 500 free crystals into Candy Forgecraft Extreme and launched it for you! Just play one level..." I have no idea why the EU isn't going after Microsoft with a heavy club for all the crap they're pulling lately.
- cjk2 2y ago
  > I have no idea why the EU isn't going after Microsoft with a heavy club for all the crap they're pulling lately. Did someone get a O365 license reduction or a nice dinner out. MS rep used to take me out to dinner in the 90s to get us to use NT+Visual Basic. Free dinner with asshats - worth it. We used Solaris in the end and Sun only gave us hats.
- BoredPositron 2y ago
  The last time, they built a new physical (lol) office and convinced an entire state to abandon their custom Linux setup and switch back to Office 365. Looking at you Bavaria...
  - number6 2y ago
    Holtstein is trying the same now. They just switched to Linux.

ranger_danger 2y ago

Jokes on them, I only use local accounts

davidkellis 2y ago
You to today (I do too). May not tomorrow: https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/microsoft-account-to-local-account-conversion-guide-erased-from-official-windows-11-guide-instructions-redacted-earlier-this-week https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/microsoft-acco...

rochak 2y ago

[flagged]

IshKebab 2y ago
Windows 10 is very solid. I'm going to assume it will get updates for about as long as Windows XP did... I'll re-evaluate when they actually EoL it. Who knows, maybe that will be the year of the Linux desktop! (Spoilers: no.)
- apantel 2y ago
  Agree re: Windows 10 (Pro). Though even with all the crap I’ve turned off, I can’t help but wonder what Microsoft is taking from my machine without my knowledge.
- skeeter2020 2y ago
  Next October (2025) is the end of the road, because my desktop can't be upgraded to Win11 and they tell me that about once a month.
  - branon 2y ago
    October 2025 is EOL for 22H2, but 1809 LTSC is supported until 2029.
    - silverwind 2y ago
      There's also IoT LTSC that goes til 2032.
  - DEADMINCE 2y ago
    > they tell me that about once a month. So fix that.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago

If Microsoft is determined to make money from One Drive, could they please improve the product? My work laptop routinely pegs a core doing who knows what. When there is something to backup, the throughout is beyond atrocious. Microsoft has all of the apis available to monitor changes on its own file system. Why does their solution seemingly run naive file comparisons to detect changes? What is it doing burning all of that computation time? Why does it struggle with tracking 100k files? A bubble sort written in Ruby should be able to handle 100k anything in seconds.

kentm 2y ago
Indeed. After being brow beat into using it MS rewarded me by syncing my personal PCs desktop shortcuts to the family PC resulting in a screen full of broken shortcuts. Good jorb MS.
BoredPositron 2y ago
Interestingly, OneDrive is likely the only Microsoft QT app. It's amusing that the applications they aim to integrate most into their system are no longer native. Last month, they crippled Windows Co-Pilot by replacing the native app with an EdgeWebView, which has significantly less system integration.

Syonyk 2y ago

I'm not the target market for Windows, haven't been for a while. But I genuinely cannot figure out what Microsoft's vision for Windows 11 is. Or if they even have one beyond "idk, shove crap in, meet OKR, get promotion... maybe?" For a while, it seemed like they were focused on making sure that they could link as much of your activity on your computer to you, as a person - witness the ever-increasing challenge of an offline-only account, which means the value of knowing the email address of the signed in user is substantial. And then they embedded ad delivery as a first class participant in the platform - the sort of crap that used to be common from people who installed Bonzai Dancer Cursor Free or such is now literally part of the OS. ... and then it's just gone weird. AI with Copilot, Recall, etc. There doesn't appear to be a coherent vision of what it is, beyond a place to shovel crap, deliver unwanted applications (that they get paid to shove at people, presumably), and install lots of updates. Linux has problems, but there are no shortage of distros that just run apps, without delivering all your behavioral surplus up for collection, and that's what (IMO) an OS should be. Windows 11, from the outside, doesn't look like it's serving me. Except in the sense that it's focused on "serving me to Microsoft for further subversion of my will." ... and apparently Windows will now orange screen? Last time someone offered to let me touch a Windows machine, it orange screened in protest before I could even touch anything. At least the feeling is mutual.

bee_rider 2y ago
Probably incorrect conspiracy theory: with the success of Azure and also due to basic common sense, anyone inside MS that gives even the smallest shit about OS quality is a huge Linux fan. But, they have this awful legacy OS dragging them down, they can’t get rid of it because of various contracts and general shareholder expectations. They added as much Linux to it as they could really get away with, and their only good program (VSCode) has been ported and works perfectly fine on Linux, so things are mostly looking OK. The only thing left to do is to tank Windows and get rid of that legacy support burden once and for all.
- keyringlight 2y ago
  I think it's that, plus following where the money is coming from. While it's nigh-impossible to get retail customers to pay for windows and they want to get enterprise used to the idea of bringing everything into their 365 services, windows will be seen as a loss leader for other parts of the business, which includes advertising. Similarly I think google's purchase of doubleclick had a large influence over the years, android and chrome were in part ventures to present their ads.

MR4D 2y ago

Seems like a great place to store tons of ISO's.

the_snooze 2y ago
Or randomly generated bits.

elorant 2y ago

Why is Win11 such a pain though? I don't get it. You had Win10 that worked just fine and they went on and fucked it up to what gain? Did they manage to sell more of other products in their lineup? And you do all that when Apple has its own silicon and produces superb laptops that could lure a lot of people in their ecosystem. I understand that Windows isn't the cash cow it used to be, they've moved to greener pastures like Azure, but still why mess up your main trademark product and piss off so many of your users? What's the end goal here?

steve_taylor 2y ago
Presumably, the Windows team has various targets to meet in terms of ARPU and things of that nature.
okanat 2y ago
The data they collect for the AI and the advertising opportunities enable more profits and more revenue to keep infinite growth happening. Even with Azure, even with Github and everything else. If you're not using all the profit opportunities, you are not delivering enough. The economic system doesn't reward or demand stable profits or sustainable growth, it demands compound growth.
- Fauntleroy 2y ago
  This, exactly. Things will only continue to get more shitty as long as the expectation, and often requirement, for businesses with investors is to make infinite money, forever.
  - adventured 2y ago
    That has been the expectation the entire time computing has existed. It will always be the expectation. There is no future where that isn't going to be true. What actually happens is a cycle. Things rise, things fall, things die. On the initial upswing things tend to get better while profit and growth are aggressively pursued. Once market dominance is achieved, things tend to get shitty thereafter until someone topples the stagnant product. This is a legitimate opportunity for Linux + hardware partners, if someone can finally realize they need to build and market to average consumers, rather than expecting average consumers to skill-up / knowledge-up just to use their software.

starik36 2y ago

This does not fill me with confidence that they won't pull the same crap with Recall.

jjoergensen 2y ago

How is this not a compliance risk? Automatically transferring data, including personal data, to the cloud without explicit consent raises GDPR concerns.

rhdunn 2y ago
And HIPPA, NDA, legal (lawyers storing client info/details), trade secrets, etc. issues.

okasaki 2y ago

I recently reinstalled Windows Home. It's not possible to install a local account any more. Apparently all the loopholes have been closed. It just loops you back to the "oops looks like you lost internet access" page. I made a new account - installer<date>@outlook.com with no@thankyou.com as the backup email (which you have to give). Microsoft didn't like that, so it made me go through 10 minutes of captchas (captcas in the OS install - wtf) Then it forced me to give it my birth date, ostensibly to check if I'm of age. Could just ask "are you older than 13" but then you don't get that sweet data. Finally I booted into the OS, and I made a local account. I spent 30 minutes going through the awful menus trying and probably failing to disable all the crap that sends all my data to Microsoft. Some of which can't be disabled in the Home edition. Then I tried to delete my "installer" account. Oops, sorry, we have to "verify" who you are by sending an email to no@thankyou.com. Oh, you don't have that? No worries, just give us your real email address and we'll allow you to log you in after 30 days. Then later I check my real name gmail account and there's a Microsoft email with a login code. I never gave MS this email address. What the hell??

ziddoap 2y ago
>It's not possible to install a local account any more. Apparently all the loopholes have been closed. It just loops you back to the "oops looks like you lost internet access" page. This simply isn't true, I did a computer with Windows 11 Home 3 days ago with local accounts. OOBE\bypassnro still works as expected.
- okasaki 2y ago
  No it doesn't.
  - ziddoap 2y ago
    Yes, it does. I'm not the only one in this thread, the other Windows thread from today, or online that has installed Windows 11 Home in the last week and successfully setup local-only accounts. When dozens of people say it still works and one says it doesn't, chances are the one person did it incorrectly. It works.

amanzi 2y ago

I'm all for hating on Microsoft for their continued destruction of the local Windows 11 experience, but I actually think this is a good decision. Assuming you're logging in with a Microsoft account, and assuming you have a OneDrive account, it's a better experience to set up the folder backup feature as early as possible in the set-up process. If you really don't want it, it's easy to undo. I still don't like being forced to log in with a Microsoft account as part of the set-up. I prefer to log in locally, and then incrementally turn on the cloud features. But I've voted with my wallet and have moved to Linux and macOS for day-to-day desktop computing. I still keep a Windows 10 VM around for when I need it, but am doing all I can to avoid the "modern" Windows desktop experience.

Bilal_io 2y ago
> Assuming you're logging in with a Microsoft account The whole issue lies within this assumption. Microsoft does not want you to use a local account, and they make it extremely difficult to setup your Windows machine without one.
- amanzi 2y ago
  Yep - I agree with that. I set up a Windows 11 machine recently and was still able to create a local account. I'm sure there will be ways to defeat the new requirement. I haven't tried this, but even if they forced a Microsoft account during set up, couldn't you just create a local admin account once logged in, then log in with that account and delete the first profile?
  - amanzi 2y ago
    Replying to myself - I just tried this and it works as expected. After initial set-up with a Microsoft account, you can create a local account and log in with that instead (and also delete the first Microsoft account too).
MissTake 2y ago
> I actually think this is a good decision Whatever happened to just, I dunno, asking what to do? > But I've voted with my wallet and have moved to Linux and macOS for day-to-day desktop computing As did I about 7 years ago. Still have to use Windows servers at work, but I’m even supplanting many of those with Linux servers as and when I can

anothername12 2y ago

I just use it for playing games on steam, but lately it’s annoying even for that. I tried steam on Linux with proton and whatnot. It works okish, but there were too many issues with screen flickering. The Xorg/Wayland/nvidia info out there made it too confusing to deal with work arounds. A younger me would have persisted though. So it looks like I’m in it for another Windows-issued flogging at least.

whatever1 2y ago

Meanwhile they have crippled the native file history and backup options of the OS. I was desperate until I found an excellent multiplatform open source project for backups called Kopia! Highly recommended, even entry level users can work with it.

timbit42 2y ago
Copying your files to the cloud is not a backup when deleting a file means it's gone forever. What if you accidentally delete some files and need them back? You need a real backup for that, not a cloud.
- whatever1 2y ago
  I am using Kopia with my local smb shared array. No cloud or whatsoever.

TheRealPomax 2y ago

It'd be so nice if Windows went back to offering three tiers: home, which assumes you want to log in and get on with your life and you don't care what the defaults are as long as things just work(tm); Pro, which assumes you know what you want and doesn't give you that unless you ask for it; and Enterprise, which assumes you're made of money and it's literally several people's jobs to manage your windows installs org-wide. So we can just buy Pro and know we're getting an OS that we can configure instead of an OS that gets hijacked by Microsoft every single windows update cycle.

slavik81 2y ago

Tech companies in general seem to struggle with consent. Even when they bother to ask, they often refuse to take "no" for an answer, only offering "maybe later."

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
> Tech companies in general seem to struggle with consent. This is why Louis Rossman started describing these behaviors as a “rapist mentality” of tech companies. It’s a violation of consent, an exploitation of their anti-competitive size (yes just their size is inherently a problem that distorts the market).
- kyboren 2y ago
  These tech companies have gotten very comfortable pimping out their users to advertisers. They already believe they own your ass; if they perceive some benefit to it, why would they not just rape users directly? And whatcha gonna do about it? Run to one of the 2 or 3 other pimps who treat their bitches with equal contempt?
- DaoVeles 2y ago
  Louis is spot on with the description. While he was no saint, this was something Steve Jobs emphasized - Let the people know about it and make the decision themselves. Many would probably be happy to do it but don't just force it.
- qingcharles 2y ago
  Wow, that's actually a really fitting description -- basically harass you constantly and refuse to take "no" for answer.
DaoVeles 2y ago
I find it just weird that 1. They think that this should be a default option that people would want. 2. They assume everyone just has unlimited data to use. My parents laptop is on a very limited mobile connection in which they do all their photography stuff on. This move would just chew through a years worth of their internet data in one swift move. Just an outright idiotic move.

mianos 2y ago

At least a Mac alllows you to have a local account without iCloud. We are not allowed iCloud accounts on our work lappies due to the risk of client data leakage. It seems to me, unless the Microsoft cloud is 100% trusted you would not be able to use it at many places. (We do have centrally managed computers and accounts).

nofunsir 2y ago
Microsoft cloud is[1] indeed trusted: "Office 365 GCC High"[2]. [1] Read: "can be" [2] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/office365/servicedescriptions/office-365-platform-service-description/office-365-us-government/gcc-high-and-dod https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/office365/servicedescripti...
ilamont 2y ago
Tangential: If you use Office on your Mac, it is impossible to use your own hard drive as the default save location, or remove OneDrive as an option. https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/all/i-want-to-default-files-saving-on-my-mac-onedrive/3f09fa84-0bd1-4c2b-8097-a76279406a61 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/all/i-wan... Very, very frustrating for non-technical family members who can't find files in Documents or some other local hard drive location.
walterbell 2y ago
> We are not allowed iCloud accounts on our work lappies Is it possible to have an Apple account for apps and security updates, without iCloud? On iOS, the default login panel in Settings will sign into both iCloud and App Store. To avoid iCloud, one must use the App Store app to sign into "Media and Purchases", rather than using Settings.
- mianos 2y ago
  Yes. It would be a pretty useless lappy if I did not get updates. Oh, no app store as well. Installations come through something called jamf. Updates are controlled centrally. In fact if you find one of our lappies on the street, it's pretty much useless as it's somehow connected to apple and our account. A full install from USB comes right up to a work login. I got a broken one once and fixed it (PCB level repair) thinking I'll just use it myself as it was to be thrown out. In the end I just sent it back to the mothership. I have a home desktop as well, and I don't find the work one much harder to use.

generic92034 2y ago

So what kind of Windows 11 is running on my PC? System info says Win 11 Pro, but I am only using a local account, was never prompted for an MS account, get no ads nowhere, no nag screens for upselling office/OneDrive/etc. What kind of magic did the PC vendor perform for me?

ffhhj 2y ago

Just run O&O ShutUp10++ after each update to cleanup M$ dark patterns.

timbit42 2y ago
We shouldn't have to do that. Also, I don't always know when there has been an update.

suby 2y ago

This happened to me. I was wondering why my internet speeds were slow when I discovered that Microsoft was in the process of uploading my users directory, they had already uploaded almost two gigs when I realized. They also changed the path to these directories to something like C:\Users\name\OneDrive\Desktop\. Another poster in this thread claimed it's easy to reverse -- I disagree, it's a pain in the ass to track down the setting, and I shouldn't have to do this. When I did, it gave me an error for one of the directories and refuses to revert (documents?). I don't like leaving negative or hyperbolic comments on HN, but this was enraging and unacceptable to me. It's hard to convey without coming off as unhinged. I only ever boot into Windows nowadays when I need to compile and test a Windows build of software. I understand Microsoft has built up good will through efforts like VS Code, but it's all undone because of things like this. I avoid MS products, they cannot be trusted.

tyleo 2y ago
This is almost my exact experience too.
- sorry_outta_gas 2y ago
  It's annoying but it's a smart move, once they get you to hit that low 5gb onedrive limit it's a easy path to get you on a office365 sub for the extra storage.
A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
<< It's hard to convey without coming off as unhinged. I almost wonder if this is by design. I genuinely had people look at me funny when I described relatively minor issues that eventually made me jump from Windows ( in my case I think it was dropping detailed descriptions from updates in Windows 7 ). I kept explaining that even the issues are not the actual issue. The issue is that I am unable to administer my machine as I see fit. I am not anti-tech, I tell people, but the tech has to work for me...
gear54rus 2y ago
Did you login with ms account? if so, why? I don't think it can upload if you aren't logged in.

lkdfjlkdfjlg 2y ago

Stallman is always right, if only you're willing to wait long enough.

givemeethekeys 2y ago

They're going back to dark tactics. Ads galore to nudge you into signing up for a Microsoft account, then an office 365 account. It's annoying and I'm going to switch to Linux.

amindeed 2y ago

Is using server editions of Windows as desktop OSs any better? I mean in regards to making such changes (without explicit user's consent, at least) and wasting system resources with [background running] junkware, for instance.

Krssst 2y ago
At some point they had a 6 month trial for Server editions. It was a bit clunky to setup (audio support is not installed by default and I had to dig the old Xbox controller driver for W7 I think) but is otherwise a pretty good experience. Absolutely zero bullshit features installed and never changes things on its own. The only issues I had were the version check of the Oculus installer (praise the soul on reddit who described how to bypass it with dnSpy), and some COD game refused to work on it too (too old, maybe it wanted a newer feature update).
- amindeed 2y ago
  > Absolutely zero bullshit features installed and never changes things on its own. That's it. For me, that's [unfortunately] the only "realistic" alternative out there, if one wouldn't mind the extra bucks, is somehow dependent on Windows environment and/or has no time to keep hacking and experiencing with Linux desktops. I've grown to love Linux as a wonderful server OS, and as an occasional Desktop OS to play with on a VM. Unless you're a hacker (at both work and in your free time), it's hard to keep using Linux as a main daily Desktop OS.

tylerchilds 2y ago

This is the same folder with the every three seconds screenshot feature or no?

tylerchilds 2y ago

This is the same folder as the every three second screenshot feature?

Overtonwindow 2y ago

I had to go into the registry to break Microsoft Word from constantly wanting to save my documents to the cloud. It’s absolutely awful.

europeanNyan 2y ago

Just this weekend, I've decided to nuke my Windows 11 drive because of Recall and all the shitty practives and give a sweet extra 1GB SSD to Linux Mint for storage. Didn't know Microsoft would give me additional reasons to feel good for doing it. I'm not missing anything. I've got the newest Nvidia drivers and kernel which were all very easy to install and one search away to find instructions on how to do it. Everything is rock solid. No surprise dark patterns, no enabling/disabling of issues. I keep Timeshift backups of the last 2 days and one for last week and month. If whatever I am playing with on the system goes haywire, I just restore my system with Timeshift. I've also been giving up on modern gaming, too much enshittification (loot boxes, engagement driven gameplay, messages for modern audiences, etc.) happening lately, but everything I've thrown at Proton ran great. I've been rediscovering the great libraries of retro gaming consoles, especially the DS and 3DS so my computer is actually a workhorse now and my gaming is single player retro bliss.

evantbyrne 2y ago

Yesterday I found out that OneDrive was silently running on startup on my Windows 10 machine, only because I went to disable the EA launcher. Have never used it on that machine.

usernamed7 2y ago

And this is another example of why i left windows. No matter how much customization I make, microsoft makes it very clear that it's theirs and that I am along for their ride. I find this absolutely intolerable, a total violation of privacy, and totally in poor taste; which, is at least on brand for microsoft. It seems like microsoft can do whatever they want to windows, and treat the users with as little disregard as they please - and there will be no consequences. Their users will either allow it, or jump through the config registry to disable the latest unwanted behavior.

yard2010 2y ago

New cancer from Microsoft is exciting news. But I'm still dealing with the candy crash AIDS. How can I remove this crap from my computer? And also is there a way to remove the ads? Do they have some kind of an extortion plan like Google or I'll have to hack myself through it? Enshitification ensues.

Kim_Bruning 2y ago

Isn't it illegal to copy documents off of a system without permission in many jurisdictions?

squarefoot 2y ago
Unless that permission is buried somewhere in the EULA every user must accept before installation.
- Kim_Bruning 2y ago
  https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/UseTerms/Retail/Windows/11/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_11_English.htm https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/UseTerms/Retail/Windows/11/U... Clause 3. may seem to permit it, but the privacy statement it refers to at https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement states "When we ask you to provide personal data, you can decline." In this case the way it is described, there was no request for the personal data, and no opportunity to decline. I think you'd need a lawyer to look at it further.
Kim_Bruning 2y ago
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1030 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1030 CFAA (a)(2)(C) In many cases, couldn't this be argued to exceed authorized access to a protected computer?
- hparadiz 2y ago
  It's theft. Criminal charges now.

mechhacker 2y ago

Feeling vindicated in having gotten rid of my windows comps and gmail. I used to have a dedicated linux box but lately have been preferring the ease of macs. Maybe one day I'll get another linux desktop up, or just run it on the m2.

DaoVeles 2y ago
I don't think I have had a Windows machine in my home for over 15 years now. I also have an air gapped Haiku OS Machine for when I just want to get some work done. I did also have a 2011 Macbook Pro until last year, it was used daily until the entire thing just packed it in one day in a spectacular fashion. Plugged a tablet in and the entire power system just failed. It was already on its death bed before that.

cyanydeez 2y ago

Definely part of tge Copilot iniative. Remember when openai and dropbox had to clarify that you had to agree to let openai scan your box for integration? This is basically the same. They want your files to start doing copilot in the cloud for you' It doesnt work to keep your data even if you acceptbthe premise that they wont keep yourbdata.

mococa 2y ago

I do not understand, windows 10 was so good.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

TheRoque 2y ago

Once I have my (now ex) girlfriend at home, and she wanted to check her email. So she used my computer to login on Outlook and just do her thing for work. Little did I know that logging to Outlook actually added some new account on my computer (for the same windows User), and it started to sync all the stuff from my ex's workplace. Fast forward 1 month later, we broke up, and I was still seeing her stuff popping on my computer, as "recently opened" in the file explorer, or "recommended" in the start menu. Since we recently broke up it was really affecting my mood to be constantly reminded of her. I struggled for like 3 months to find the option to deactivate it. I even considered formating my computer. It really felt like a private space violation, like my computer wasn't even my own, and all that just with a naive email login followed buy a ton of implicit behaviors.

freedomben 2y ago
See any documents titled "My Revenge Plan against TheRogue.docx" ?
- TheRoque 2y ago
  Luckily there wasn't any weird content, just work stuff and memes with colleagues. I couldn't even open the files because it was locked under her login/password, literally just see the thumbnails and titles of the file. It's such a weird feature. Imagine opening your file explorer and seeing the attached files of your ex's emails, updated live, it's a nightmare I swear.
  - freedomben 2y ago
    That's so wild! It does sound like a nightmare. Also a catastrophic violation of privacy (by MS).
    - tremon 2y ago
      Not just violation of privacy; since this was her work account, MS is also leaking private company correspondence.

bparsons 2y ago

I love windows, but OneDrive made my experience on 11 nearly unusable. I never knew where anything was saved because of these indistinguishable, parallel file systems. The implementation was awful.

domador 2y ago

I am a lifetime Windows user (30+ years) and generally a laggard when it comes to adopting new products. However, during the past year, I've given more than a passing thought to biting the bullet and enduring the pain of moving to another OS (probably some Linux distro.) I'm a power user and a lover of good UI and it makes me very angry when a company destroys their product's user experience through awkward, clueless, and invasive marketing initiatives. Its weird how Microsoft seems intent on making their otherwise loyal customers increasingly distrustful of them by threatening to record everything that happens on their screens (if I recall correctly) and now by copying all their files to the cloud, whether you want to or not. Hey, Microsoft: If you want to turn Windows into a bigger cash cow, how about charging a yearly fee for security patches, but then leaving Windows just the way it is (ideally at around the Windows 7 or Windows 10 mark), instead of encouraging your most loyal users to despise your product and start fantasizing about otherwise-uncomfortable alternatives? In any case, it's now increasingly likely that I won't follow you onto Windows 11. But go ahead, feel free to jump off the cliff by yourself, if you insist.

bastard_op 2y ago

Microsoft will shrug off their "experiment" in cramming something they want down your throat as an "accident", like they always do after public backlash. If they get away with it, "great!", otherwise "sorry we stepped on your privacy, again." Mean time, they got all your personal files to train their AI on, didn't they?

imarkphillips 2y ago

Does anyone seriously use Microsoft OneDrive for backup? It's 300,000 file limit means pretty much no developer would risk it considering the thousands of files in a typical app. Believe me when OneDrive lost a heap of my files this year I was not impressed to learn of this serious limitation. To be fair GoogleDrive and DropBox also have similar limitations. Azure Storage on the other hand doesn't have the limitation, is much cheaper and much faster. It's UI sux though. I'm still searching for a reasonable cloud backup solution. Until then cheap external drives are the answer.

hengheng 2y ago
Wait, so I can just run a little script that creates 400k useless files in the first directory it crawls, and then my data is safe from embezzlement?
rldjbpin 2y ago
i was unaware about the limitation. the experience sucks too much to put that limit to test as it is.

ifyoubuildit 2y ago

A relative ran into this a year ago and I was blown away. I posted an ask hn about it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35138349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35138349