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Kino: Pro Video Camera

• nvader 2y ago
  Somewhat unrelated, but it is my dream to one day build a product for this segment of the market: passionate users in an interesting niche who are using my product in pursuit of what they love.
• phren0logy 2y ago
  I didn't see it mentioned here, but is there any support for timecode?
  • sandofsky 2y ago
    Not at launch, but it's on the roadmap.
    • phren0logy 2y ago
      Thanks - that seems like a must-have for anyone anyone working with this level of tools. Glad to hear it's on the way. I would love to be able to use this with both external mics and storage, but I'm not sure how well the iPhone would handle both of those through a hub.
    • OKThatWillDo 2y ago
      Are you going to integrate the Atomos/TCS wireless system? Apogee does for audio in their apps, for example. And Zoom recorders support it. Would be nice to go with the emerging wireless standard for timecode.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  Looks pretty good. We'll have to see where it goes, from here.
• masto 2y ago
  For a video recording app, it's an interesting marketing decision that there's only one video on the page. And at least on my computer, it doesn't play, I only hear the audio. These folks have a stellar reputation, and I'll be buying this app on that (and the I-was-expecting-more-digits price) alone, but I would have enjoyed seeing some kind of short film "shot on Kino". If only to see some professional work.
  • tshaddox 2y ago
    > but I would have enjoyed seeing some kind of short film "shot on Kino". Funny enough, the website for the app is https://www.shotwithkino.com/ https://www.shotwithkino.com/, but it also doesn't have feature any videos shot with Kino.
  • dylan604 2y ago
    > These folks have a stellar reputation The name they've chosen for the app, Kino, is a bit weird to me. When I hear the word Kino, I immediately start to think about lighting as that's how people refer to lights from Kinoflo which gained popularity from their fluorescent lights in the years before LEDs took over.
    • stnmtn 2y ago
      I think of the internet "meme" of calling movies you like "Kinography", or saying that a movie you watched was "kino". Example: Movie XYZ is pure kino
      • dylan604 2y ago
        I get the use of Kino, and that's why I caveated the statement with "weird to me" immediately followed by the specific reasons it is weird to me. I did not say that it is weird because it has nothing to do with anything. It's just when someone that's been in the production world and familiar with equipment names and brands, Kino definitely has a specific meaning on first hearing it.
    • janfoeh 2y ago
• kulor 2y ago
  Complete sidenote but I'm an accidental fan of Sandwich (video production company) and the promo video in this did not disappoint.
• Trung0246 2y ago
  Unfortunately iOS only.
  • zer0zzz 2y ago
    [flagged]
    • pavel_lishin 2y ago
      Why?
      • dylan604 2y ago
        Do other manufactures shoot in the log mode that this is specifically taking advantage of? If not, there's no point of it from any other millions of apple on the Play store.
        • IncreasePosts 2y ago
          Well, there is the Camera2API RAW stream on android which is even more powerful that shooting in log mode.
        • luuurker 2y ago
          There are apps for Android that allow you to record RAW video (eg: MotionCam Pro). You'll need an equivalent Android though. A high end Samsung, Sony, OnePlus, etc, supports this. A random $50-100 Android phone probably won't.
          • zer0zzz 2y ago
            That's a super good point. My guess is any shop building apps like this are going to be doing it using some very OS specific system frameworks and are going to have a lot of domain knowledge in either android or iOS. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to pivot given the cost I suspect.
      • zer0zzz 2y ago
• croes 2y ago
  Kino is also the german word for cinema
  • andreygrehov 2y ago
    It's the same meaning in German, Polish, Russian, and Slavic languages.
• amerine 2y ago
  Great app so far. Only taken a couple test shots, but it's great to use. Highly recommend an iPhone 15+ for ProRes support.
• dagmx 2y ago
  I’m glad the page does a call out to the Invisible CG series. I know it’s a quick aside but it’s important for people in the trade to stand by each other. On a different note, I am curious though how the page manages to use so much copyright content though. I always think that’s a risky move.
  • dylan604 2y ago
    > use so much copyright content though It's called fair use. They are static shots and not even close to the magical "8 seconds" rule. They are providing dramatic examples that many people are familiar with. Showing the before/after of something your mom shot means nothing to people. Showing extremely famous examples immediately lets people know what is possible and to what extent. I see nothing wrong with any of what was used or how it was used but especially why it was used.
    • dagmx 2y ago
      Fair use gets tricky when you intermix it like this. Though I must first call out that there’s no actual 8 second rule. Even with fair use, it’s still good form to attribute it. But more importantly , those images are intermixed among product clips/videos which can fall on the other side of fair use because it may give the impression that they are associated with the product. That can be a tight line to walk and so it’s again usually best to specifically call out that they are there for illustrative purposes.
      • dylan604 2y ago
        Notice the quotes around the "8 seconds" rule. It's not a rule, but that's what it is known as. I mainly know it from the audio world, but it was a common theme/trope/meme in radio shows about using music without royalties. Whether or not it's described in the text of copyright law, it is a common concept people are familiar.
        • dagmx 2y ago
          Nitpickiest of nits: given your intended description, the quotes should be around “rule” not “8 second”. When around “rule”, that implies it’s not really a rule. When around “8 second” it implies that it’s not 8 seconds exactly or it’s what it’s colloquially called, but it would still be a rule. Regardless, the fair use laws are very loose and tend to vary depending on the medium type and association with product. Anyway , I get what you’re saying but given it’s part of a product page, it should at the very least, call out that they’re illustrative and not actually associated.
• spdustin 2y ago
  Wonder if Kino is an homage to Stargate: Universe
  • kgeist 2y ago
    Kino means "cinema" or "movie" in many European languages
• lelo_tp 2y ago
  I don't know much about the company and never used their products, but this article is such a delicious read: https://www.lux.camera/orion-from-idea-to-launch-in-45-days/ https://www.lux.camera/orion-from-idea-to-launch-in-45-days/ Really tells how much they care about their craft
  • Yenrabbit 2y ago
    Delicious is the right word, everything (post included) is crafted with care.
  • tomw1808 2y ago
    Oh man, I wish the app was available on the iphone 15 pro too. I keep holding off buying that external HDMI monitor for the A7SIII, and that might be just the solution to keep the camera bag small...
• dylan604 2y ago
  "Now, it's not always possible for Kino to pick cinematic settings, such as when shooting in bright daylight." Since the phone's cameras are fixed aperture, you lose one leg of the exposure triangle. Instead, they lean heavily on the shutter speed as ISO is also a function of the chip. Increasing the shutter speed also increase the jello effect from the rolling shutter. Using an ND filter helps. If you find yourself without an ND filter but you have your sun glasses, shoot your camera through a lens on your sunglasses. It'll be awkward but it will help. Bonus points if your sunglasses are polarized. You can rotate your sunglasses to "dial" in the effect similar to a circular polarizer. I'd assume at this point that there are a plethora of lens filters available for cheap.
  • SamBam 2y ago
    > Bonus points if your sunglasses are polarized. You can rotate your sunglasses to "dial" in the effect similar to a circular polarizer. Surely that would only affect polarized light, like glare from reflections, no? Possibly that's all you're saying (I understand the general purpose of polarized lenses) but it sounded like you were suggesting you could make the whole scene darker -- and thus improve the motion blur effect -- by rotating the lens.
    • dylan604 2y ago
      > but it sounded like you were suggesting you could make the whole scene darker Did you read over this "Bonus points if your sunglasses are polarized."? I'm not talking about regular polarized lenses in your glasses. I specifically said the world sunglasses multiple times. The entire point of sunglasses is to make the whole scene darker. I really don't know how to describe this any more plainly.
      • SamBam 2y ago
        Huh? I'm talking about being able to "dial in the effect." I read that as "dialing in the darkness" (as it relates to motion blur). That's what I'm talking about. Obviously the sunglasses alone make the scene darker. You're the one who brought up dialing it in with polarized lenses.
• th0ma5 2y ago
  On Android there is https://www.motioncamapp.com/ https://www.motioncamapp.com/ which has been doing raw video for years.
  • flakiness 2y ago
    I wasn't aware of this. Thanks for the call out!
  • liminalsunset 2y ago
    In typical Android fashion, this app is essentially the mathematical inverse of the iPhone version. The UI on the iOS Kino app is beautiful, crafted, and elegant. The UI on MotionCam (even after the update) is functional, brutalist, and purely an engineering driven, unstyled Android 4.4 UI elements style. But MotionCam Pro gives full control, and even a RAW mode which wouldn't be possible on iPhone. You can even do ProRes (but it doesn't work very well for long unless you have a new phone with good cooling). For the purpose I use it for (magnifying glass/telescope, using S23 Ultra), it's wonderful. But I always wished that the two worlds of Android and iOS development styles would collide for a moment....
    • IshKebab 2y ago
      I've never done any iOS dev but I always assumed it was partly because the Android GUI toolkit (views, fragments etc.) is just SO awful that it just isn't feasible to make nice UIs. Certainly in the apps I've made there's absolutely no way I would invest time into animations, custom widgets, etc. Hopefully Flutter will fix that because the difference in usability is night and day. It's just a shame the Dart ecosystem is so dead.
      • kernal 2y ago
        Your concept of Android development looks to be stuck in the 4.4 days. Jetpack Compose and its declarative UI is how modern Android apps are developed. https://github.com/android/compose-samples https://github.com/android/compose-samples >Hopefully Flutter will fix that because the difference in usability is night and day. It's just a shame the Dart ecosystem is so dead. I don't see how the difference is night and day when they both use declarative UI's. Whether you use Jetpack Compose/Kotlin or Flutter/Dart is really up to your objectives. As for your claim that the Dart ecosystem is dead - I really don't get that, since Flutter/Dart is the #1 cross-platform development environment.
• sneak 2y ago
  Insta-buy as soon as I saw the “Data not collected” privacy label. Thanks for not bundling spyware like everyone does in apps these days. I’m happy to support anyone who isn’t spying on users. I don’t use Halide specifically because it does phone home (and is IAP subscriptionware cancer). Even though I shoot log and use Resolve, this might be fun for quick stuff without a round trip through the desktop computer.
  • lynndotpy 2y ago
    Just a heads up, the "privacy label" does not necessarily match the actual privacy policy. It's not required to match, and there is no accountability mechanism when it doesn't. What you want is the Privacy Policy, which links to https://halide.com/privacy/ https://halide.com/privacy/, which is a 404 page.
    • sandofsky 2y ago
      Sorry about the broken link. We’re fixing it. To give a summary of our philosophy in the mean time: we don’t want your data.
  • sandofsky 2y ago
    Hope you enjoy Kino! To clear up a few things about Halide… The only time Halide communicates with a server is when we do a controlled rollout of a feature, and anonymized reporting when a capture fails. I’d prefer we didn’t need either but 1) the App Store model doesn’t accommodate safe rollouts and 2) iPhone capture and photo library frameworks regularly break, and sometimes the only way to get a fix escalated is to have numbers in hand. If you don’t want to subscribe to Halide, though, there is a one time purchase option in app.
    • sneak 2y ago
      The Halide one time purchase is $60, and I carry a full frame mirrorless (rx1) with me at all times. Also, while I understand your QA issue, I won’t spend money on apps that phone home against my will, on basis of principle.
• z5h 2y ago
  As a long time amateur photographer (using physical cameras and lenses), I have Halide (by the same company) on my iOS home screen for when I need to take a real phono on my iPhone. I use it all the time without issue. And would recommend it to any photographer. So I paid for Kino without hesitation. Just fired it up, set BNW grade, pressed record, and it immediately crashed. Tried again and it crashed again. Tried AGAIN and it worked... (iPhone 13 mini, iOS 17.4.1). I have faith this will be worked out soon.
  • sandofsky 2y ago
    We think we have a fix ready. If you'd like to help verify, please email support@lux.camera and mention Hacker News, and we'll get you on a TestFlight.
  • sandofsky 2y ago
    Sorry you ran into that. I distinctly remember testing the 13 mini, due to notch layout issues, so this is unexpected. As soon as the crash reports come in, we’ll dig into that. Unfortunately, while we had a QA person on this, and nearly 100 beta testers, the iPhone camera APIs are a mine field. We’ll get a fix out as soon as we have details.
    • danielskogly 2y ago
      Same issue on my iPhone 13 mini 17.5.1, tried with Sando. Crashed immediately after beginning filming
      • halostatue 2y ago
        I tried with my iPhone 12 mini 17.5.1 BNW. It didn't crash, but it looked like it had and then came back with a weird error (sorry, I didn’t capture it). My phone is due for an upgrade soon, so it’s not a big deal at the moment.
    • ungamedplayer 2y ago
      I heard that the iPhone landscape was not fragmented though.
• pseudosavant 2y ago
  I'm interested in the benefits of this app for anyone who doesn't have an iPhone 15 Pro that takes video in Apple Log. The post made it seem it seem to me like an iPhone 15 Pro was required.
  • icelancer 2y ago
    Yeah, I am quite interested in the app but I would need this cleared up as I have an iPhone 13 Pro.
    • dylan604 2y ago
      The ability to record in log is very important. Without log, you're never going to get the results as advertised on the box. You can attempt to grade any footage from any camera with any color grade software, but with a huge amount of limitations. When recording in a format that is not "log", you will have already trashed the majority of data an app like this needs to make those subtle adjustments. In log, the highlights tend to be preserved better as well as details in shadows have not be crushed into oblivion. If your non-log footage is brought in, the same knobs/buttons will be available, but the data it is needing has been lost and it just will not have the same effect. You will not be satisfied with "its abilities" as you are now in the "you're doing it wrong" with your workflow
      • icelancer 2y ago
        Unfortunately that's what I figured was likely to be the case.
• frankus 2y ago
  Kind of a tangent but I'm worried that "Kodiak" is not going to pass the "a moron in a hurry" test (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_moron_in_a_hurry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_moron_in_a_hurry) and could get them in trouble. I for one read it as "Kodak" the first few times. Hopefully they cleared it with the owner of the trademark.
  • hatthew 2y ago
    The design of the Kodiak card (logo? icon? not sure if there's a better word) also seems like it's intentionally mildly reminiscent of the Kodak logo, without being close enough that it's obvious at first glance.
• lxhrstn 2y ago
  Looks very cool - but will be curious to see how the results from this end up comparing to Blackmagic's excellent (and free) pro iOS video app (https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagiccamera https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagiccamera)
  • dylan604 2y ago
    I don't see a way to grade the footage from within the BMD app. Their app seems more designed to take advantage of the ProRes/log captures intended to be used in Resolve Studio. This app allows you to do the grading on your device. So that's a pretty obvious difference. If you're someone using Resolve, you'll probably be enticed by the BMD app as it fits your existing workflow. If you're someone looking to stay on device or just don't have a computer, this gets you to a similar ability right there
    • fassssst 2y ago
      You can apply a LUT to the capture. They also have a good Davinci Resolve iPad app; maybe they'll make an iPhone version in the future.
      • dylan604 2y ago
        Applying a LUT is not the same thing as color grading. It's simply applying a LUT. The app that was specifically linked to is not Resolve. It is an app tapping into the new features introduced with the newest model device. If you use the linked app to acquire footage with your phone, you would still need to make that data available to the iPad version of Resolve. Again, this app does not require that at all.
        • caseyy 2y ago
          How is color grading applied if not with LUTs? You know that when you do color grading with apps like Resolve, it is stored in memory as a LUT, right?
• beezlebroxxxxxx 2y ago
  > With AutoMotion, Kino automatically choses the best exposure settings for cinematic motion blur. The part I've italicized above should be "chooses". Great looking app though!
  • jihadjihad 2y ago
    It's not the only typo, either (not a big deal, but I noticed it too) > For one, there are artists who sculpts the contrast and color emphasis mine
• ValentineC 2y ago
  As a former happy Halide user, I bought their previous new app Spectre on launch, but sadly haven't found a good chance to use it. (Why "former"? I switched over to Apple's Camera app for the bulk of my casual photography when Apple introduced Live Photos, since I really like the added vividness of having a video moment attached.) I don't do many videos, and the Camera app (along with their Action Mode software video stabilisation) seems to do everything I need it to, so I'm not sure if I would be able to use any of the "pro" features here at all.
• atan2 2y ago
  "one simple principle: make good products and charge money for them." Thank you for the one-time purchase option. It's a win already on today's software world.
  • ertgbnm 2y ago
    I give it 2 years before they have regressed to a subscription model.
    • ashton314 2y ago
      Their other apps are much older than 2 years and still have a buy-once model. This company has a good track record. (There is a subscription for some long-running services if I'm not mistaken.)
    • dghlsakjg 2y ago
      They have been around successfully selling apps with this business model for a lot longer than 2 years, why do you think they plan on changing it?
      • Kerrick 2y ago
        FiLMiC Pro, another pro camera app for iPhone, also existed for years [0] and sold with the one-time-purchase business model. They're now a subscription [1] and owned by Bending Spoons / Evernote. (Plus, more bad news [2]...) [0]: http://web.archive.org/web/20111130073123/http://www.filmicpro.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/20111130073123/http://www.filmicp... [1]: https://www.cined.com/filmic-pro-is-joining-forces-with-bending-spoons-new-subscription-model/ https://www.cined.com/filmic-pro-is-joining-forces-with-bend... [2]: https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/3/23986187/filmic-staff-laid-off-bending-spoons https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/3/23986187/filmic-staff-lai...
        • dghlsakjg 2y ago
          That kind of proves that one time sales can be a successful business model, doesn't it? They were a successful business employing 23 people after more than a decade on the one time sales model!
• MaximilianEmel 2y ago
  What's the font they're using for the UI?
  • sandofsky 2y ago
    Halide Router, a custom typeface we commissioned.
• Uehreka 2y ago
  > Speaking of accidental taps, when gripping the side of your phone to keep things stable, we found it too easy to accidentally tap buttons. I have this problem CONSTANTLY with the iPhone 15 Pro Max, not when filming, but when doing everyday tasks. Something about the edge of the phone is such that a bit of my palm goes over just enough of the screen to trigger gestures, and now the YouTube video I’m watching is double speed or something I’m reading scrolls to the top for no reason. I’m generally good about not dropping my phone (knock on wood) so I’d rather not get a case just to fix this weird touch sensitivity issue. As far as I recall this wasn’t an issue with my iPhone 12 Pro Max.
  • MillionOClock 2y ago
    I frequently have exactly the same double speed issue on YouTube, nice to know I'm not the only one
    • Uehreka 2y ago
      I will say I love this feature on my iPad (touch the screen and hold without moving, the video will be 2x until you let go) but I wish it could be turned on on a per-device basis.
• tamimio 2y ago
  But blackmagicCam is free..
• alin23 2y ago
  This is great! Just yesterday I was looking for a way to get a daylight 5500k white balance on videos the same way I do in Halide but it seems there’s no way to do that in the built in camera app. I know you can “lock white balance” but it is still nudging it towards neutral before locking. Unfortunately there’s no white balance option in Kino, but I already love its Auto Motion and manual focus. Maybe you’d be open to adding a white balance control too? I also think it would make sense to have an option to persist the chosen white balance even after the app is quit. Same on Halide. I prefer “daylight” on all my shots [1], but I have to switch from AWB every time. Sorry for the premature feature request, Kino is awesome anyway, the UI is so so good! and thank you for launching it with 50% off! [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eQPPa_8Z13o https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eQPPa_8Z13o
  • Chilko 2y ago
    On the linked page they mention that manual WB is on the roadmap.
  • tehnub 2y ago
    You can do that with the (free) Blackmagic Camera app https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagiccamera#:~:text=You%20can%20save%20settings%20by%20locking%C2%A0them https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagiccamera#:....
• localfirst 2y ago
  is there something like this but for DJI action 4/pocket 3 camera? doesn't seem like this app will run on iphone se
• TheJoeMan 2y ago
  "Opening a LUT file directly from an app will give you an option to open in Kino...even works in Messages!" - Anyone able to test how tapping on a .cube in iMessages opens in Kino? Last time I tried to code something like this, Messages is the holdout in not working properly. This StackOverflow I found requires a QuickLook extension: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22826978/custom-extension-file-not-opening-in-imessage https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22826978/custom-extensio... So does Kino open directly or is there 2 taps to open from iMessage?
  • SuurRae 2y ago
    It's sort of a PITA. Click on the name of the person who sent you the LUT in iMessage and scroll down to "Documents". Tap on the LUT file. Use the Share button in the lower left corner and then, where it lists the apps, tap "More". You'll see Kino listed. If you tap it, it will automatically import it. Again, PITA, but given the iOS infrastructure, I'm surprised it works at all.
• tonetegeatinst 2y ago
  On graphene is so I'm unsure how well this could work...but I might recommend this to my family members that only buy iphones. Question I do have though: is the purchase done through the app store or your website, and if its done via the app store or website, can I use it on as many of my own devices attached to the account? Or is it more of a 1 liscense per device? Second: the presents you have sound nice and you mention that "Of course you can turn off Instant Grade to save the original Apple Log footage, allowing you the flexibility to change your look in our video reviewer. " does this support saving the original apple log footage, then opening that footage in the app and being able to preview how the different effects would look? And can I export the effected footage as a copy of the original that way I can have both the original and graded footage without overwriting the original data?
  • ihuman 2y ago
    It's a paid-up-front app, so you buy it through the App Store, which means you can use it with any device you have that's signed into the same App Store account. I don't see any in-app purchases.
    • Tempest1981 2y ago
      On the App Store it says: "Up to six family members can use this app with Family Sharing enabled."
      • aprilnya 2y ago
        That’s for family sharing with other Apple IDs, but for your own Apple ID there isnt a limit like that
• al_borland 2y ago
  I'm tempted to buy this while it's discounted, but if I'm a realist, I've taken 7 videos this year for a total of 2 minutes 47 seconds. I'm probably not the target market, but I'm glad to know options like this exist.
  • malshe 2y ago
    I am with you on this one. I looked through my photo library and realized that the last video I took was from the New Year's Eve :)
• littlestymaar 2y ago
  The editorialized title should probably be changed. I get that the original one (“Introducing Kino”) is not descriptive enough, but at the same time “Kino: Pro Video Camera” is misleading since it's not a camera (let alone a professional one) but a camera app for iPhone.
• nerdjon 2y ago
  Is it just me or does the marketing seem to disagree with itself a bit? On the one hand it is talking about how until the iPhone 15 Pro one of the issues is that you were stuck with whatever version of the video your iPhone decided to record, but then it is talking about how this recording app is not just recording straight log and doing its own magic? What am I missing here, arn't they doing the exact thing that they were saying was bad in the first place? Related to that, they seem to talk about LUT's but if with this we are saying that we can use these prebaked LUT's what exactly does that get me over using prebaked LUT's in my video editor? I am curious how this compares to BlackMagic Camera. Also curious how this will standup when Final Cut Pro Camera launches later this year (but that is obviously only valuable if you use FCP). For $10, I may download it and give it a shot. But I am not fully sure I am seeing the value proposition here and I feel like there has to be something I am really missing here. If it isnt targeting the pro market as some commenters are saying, then what is the point of this over the built in camera app? For context, I do my recording on an iPhone 15 pro max so maybe this isnt targeted at me?
• janandonly 2y ago
  I did some quick testing. On my iPhone 15 pro it did not crash as some reported. But the app did create a video file that has audio backed in at 2x the speed. So halfway true the video the audio stops already. I guess this is an interesting app to keep eyes on after a few updates.
• vorprokuror 2y ago
  Hi, I’ve just bought the app, congratulations on your release! Wishing for real time de-squeeze for anamorphic lenses users. And one more thing. If there’s any way to make it compatible with various gimbals and I mean like actually compatible with zoom/focus controls etc, it’d be a killer feature.
• kentf 2y ago
  Take my money.
• blehn 2y ago
  Does it disable (or allow for disabling) iPhone's dreadful dynamic tone mapping? (It makes exposure-locked footage look like auto-exposure is on)
• bigdict 2y ago
  > let's walk through a few of the tent-pole features Hehe nice job on the Apple lingo signaling
  • tptacek 2y ago
    Standard marketing language, used especially in the features and series film industry. The Avengers is MCU tentpole IP.
    • bigdict 2y ago
      Never heard it in any context in tech other than Apple.
      • tptacek 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tent-pole_(entertainment) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tent-pole_(entertainment)
        • bigdict 2y ago
          https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/10/business/apple-siri-ai-chatgpt.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/10/business/apple-siri-ai-ch...: > a tent pole project — the company’s special, internal label that it uses to organize employees around once-in-a-decade initiatives https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13305285 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13305285
          • tptacek 2y ago
            Pretty sure they lifted that from the features industry.
            • bigdict 2y ago
              sure, I'm just saying it's not "standard marketing language"
• drewbeck 2y ago
  This looks cool but the line about “show don’t tell” is followed by a LOT of telling.
  • ape4 2y ago
    You're also not supposed to say "show don't tell"
  • OKThatWillDo 2y ago
    ...and accompanied by an image that shows a camera oriented the wrong way for video
  • l33tbro 2y ago
    The copy is atrocious.
• OKThatWillDo 2y ago
  A "filmmaking" app prominently features a camera turned the wrong way (for video) on its homepage.
• 999900000999 2y ago
  Cries in Android. Realistically I don't blame em, but it sucks to see IOS get all the cool apps. With emulators coming to iOS I know my next phone will probably be an iPhone
  • xster 2y ago
    A bunch of Android OEMs already baked into the OS's default camera. The Honor Magic6 Pro for instance just lets you shoot log or preview (or bake in) any number of lut while capturing. I think they had it for 4 product cycles already.
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • zer0zzz 2y ago
    There's MotionCam Pro for android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.motioncam https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.motioncam I myself feel the same, with emus on iOS the only missing class of software at this point is like... Blink+V8 instead of WebKit+JSC as a browser choice.
• sonium 2y ago
  Literally every color grading example shows log footage as the "before". Of course this lacks contrast and vibrancy because it's not meant to be watched "as is". Please show me regular footage as a baseline so it's a fair comparison.
  • tiptup300 2y ago
    I didn't read this as a comparison against normal iPhone output normal iPhone output is great looking just not "the look" I prefer without a comparison of iPhones version.
    • IshKebab 2y ago
      It's a meaningless comparison. They're showing a "before and after" but the "before" is something that nobody uses.
  • IshKebab 2y ago
    Yeah talk about disingenuous.
• bambax 2y ago
  I like the still from Con Air (sporting Cyrus 'The Virus'), but do people actually use a phone to shoot 'serious' movies? Even amateur, super low-budget ones? When so many cameras that can be bought used for dirt cheap, shoot D-Log, and many have interchangeable lenses, and an actual shutter button, and removable SD cards, etc. Taking pictures with a phone is unpleasant enough, but shooting movies is another world of pain.
  • tshaddox 2y ago
    I don’t think the overall goal here is to increase the frequency at which you choose an iPhone when you’re carefully considering which camera to use from a large selection of available cameras. Instead, I think the overall goal is to increase the video quality for times when you don’t have the chance to carefully consider which camera to use from a large selection of available cameras. Your iPhone is already in your pocket.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• justinator 2y ago
  I wish they just said, "color grading made easy on the iPhone 15" in their copy. And then if they wanna dive in a explain it, fine.
  • sandofsky 2y ago
    The submitter linked to the announcement on our blog, which goes into greater detail than our marketing. https://www.shotwithkino.com https://www.shotwithkino.com
  • mewpmewp2 2y ago
    Yeah, I may be stupid, but I initially thought it's a camera that I can buy, kind of like GoPro, but for cinematic effects, and I was trying to understand what the price is.
    • localfirst 2y ago
      same thought this was a smartphone based camera
• uxcolumbo 2y ago
  It's refreshing to see you kept the website simple. No stupid scroll jacking or fancy (read distracting) transitions or scroll effects. I like supporting independent software studios like yours who try not to sell out, so bought it without hesitation, even though I don't shoot a lot of video with my iPhone. This will probably make me experiment more with video.
  • wilg 2y ago
    This is a blog post about the app, not the website. The actual website has the fun you are complaining about: https://www.shotwithkino.com/ https://www.shotwithkino.com/
    • uxcolumbo 2y ago
      Ha ok, didn't realize that. The main site doesn't use scroll-jacking, i.e. scrolling feels like walking through a muddy swamp. The other effects are subtle enough that they don't make me want to leave the site, i.e. make my laptop fan spin more violently.
• willseth 2y ago
  When I upgrade my iPhone I will buy this immediately. It's unclear if you already support this, but I would love an option to automatically bake graded footage back down to HEVC. I will never edit most of the video I take, I just want to dial in the look I want.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• qwertox 2y ago
  That animation with the comparison swipes below "What if you could use all that powerful extra color data and get a cinematic look with one tap?" looks highly misleading. I've never seen original videos as bad as the ones used in the "before"-state. Am I wrong? I'm not into filming, so I might be.
  • CaptainOfCoit 2y ago
    > Am I wrong? I'm not into filming, so I might be. Yes, it's because you haven't seen raw log video before. It'll look very washed out when filming in log (and typically when previewing recent shots) but then in post-processing you'll actually tune the colors (called "color grading", in case you wanna seek out more about it).
    • krackers 2y ago
      > washed out when filming in log That's only because it's not viewed in the right color space? (I'm using color space in the ICC sense to also include the transfer function). For some reason video folks seem really intent on creating their own terms for everything that photographers already standardized with ICC. And to make things worse they decided to make the EOTF and OETF not be inverses of each other. Of course things will look off if you display a log-encoded image on a display that uses a power-gamma. You have to linearize the input (invert the log-encoding) then delinearize (inverse power) before sending it to the display. With ICC-aware tools (that most photographer uses) this conversion is done automatically for you (e.g. colorsync on mac). But for some reason video workflows are not icc color managed. As I understand the oetf is basically unused entirely: since edits are made under bt1886 conditions, effectively baking in this bt1886 assumption on the viewer side as well. This seems to be the exact opposite of how ICC workflows work, where regardless of the monitor color profile the editor uses, all edits are transferred to the underlying source color profile of the image. The only page I've ever seen which actually acknowledges that "log encoding" is just an alternative to gamma encoding is https://imatest.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/KB/pages/11416142124/Gamma+Tonal+Response+Curve+and+related+concepts#Logarithmic-encoding https://imatest.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/KB/pages/114161421..., as I discussed in an earlier rant https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37877599 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37877599
• GaryNumanVevo 2y ago
  The original Matrix wasn't color graded like that! They only pushed the green levels in the subsequent home video release!
  • joecool1029 2y ago
    The original bluray release really went overboard to a jarring amount with that green. The original had some green but nothing to that level. Apparently the newer UHD release backed it down closer to the original.
    • GaryNumanVevo 2y ago
      Yeah, I recently watched a 4k scan of the Matrix taken from the original 35mm reels, it's a great time.
• KennyBlanken 2y ago
  If you want to say "lets you do color grading", then fine. But claiming/implying this can make "pro video" or stuff that looks like it came out of a cinema camera is absurd. I know they don't say that outright, but it is heavily implied that the only, or major, difference is just color space and grading. And the name is just...laughable. > On a technical level, why does video shot on an iPhone look different than one shot on a big Hollywood camera? ...and then they launch into color grading and whatnot. The real answer: Because the pixel pitch on a cinema digital camera is four times the area of the pixels on an iPhone which allows for much greater light gathering which means lower noise, and the sensor is far less limited by diffraction. Because the iPhone lens, being so tiny, has almost zero depth of field and that looks like shit. Because the people operating the camera are very good at cinematography. ...not because of some software.
  • jdcola 2y ago
    And most importantly, the artificial lighting.
• Exuma 2y ago
  I love this landing page, excellent work. Steps me through lots of examples with clean and efficient writing. Nice work! Edit: i just bought it
• zamadatix 2y ago
  I really appreciate that the app is just an up front price! I probably don't really need it but at that price and straightforwardness it's not really a big loss if I don't use it much so I grabbed it. I looked at the other apps and realized they had made Halide as well which I tried out for a bit, for some reason thought it was subscription only & decided I didn't want it that much while clearing out subscriptions, and just (re)noticed they say you can buy it outright too. Initially I probably saw a high price tag and wanted to see how long I'd really like it for but going back into the app I can't seem to find the straightforward purchase option (perhaps because my initial year subscription hasn't expired?) which means I can't find how much it is without searching the net. Perhaps I'm just uneducated and there is a place to still see it in the app with an active subscription or see the IAP price on the app store but even if there were it'd all just be a pain compared to "It's $9.99, wanna buy?" in your face at the app store and anywhere you read about it. The only other (very minor) thing that gave me a startle was the onboarding process asks if you want to go "starter" or some other more advanced category. I thought I missed that it would try to upsell you until I reread and saw it meant I could select either layout type out of the box. Not sure that's really the apps fault as much as my paranoia after having just checked through all the above and being left thinking I missed something.
  • selectodude 2y ago
    Halide has a lifetime IAP for $60 in there.
    • stefandesu 2y ago
      Which was an about 10x increase from the original price. Sure, it was definitely underpriced back then, but it was still a... let's say bold move.
      • gregoriol 2y ago
        I think I've read that the current price for Kino is "launch price" and will be higher in a few days
      • 2y ago
• frognumber 2y ago
  At the $9.99 price point, I'd buy an Android version in an instant. At a subscription or a significantly higher price point, I wouldn't. Plural of anecdote isn't data, but anecdote is better than nothing, so there you have it.
• blackhaj7 2y ago
  Beautiful app. At $9.99 it was an instant purchase. Seems nice upon first use but either way it’s worth the $10 as a lesson in beautiful UIs
• James-Hideng 2y ago
  [dead]
• motoxpro 2y ago
  Unboxing experience in an app is super cool.
• mike50 2y ago
  Unimpressed. It's just an adobe filter ported to a phone. Just found the equivalent of people who buy vinyl.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• Poiesis 2y ago
  Just so you know: this app does not support zooming, it only switches between lenses. (This was a little surprising to me, but I'm not a video professional.)
  • zeckalpha 2y ago
    That's the hardware. You can crop in post!
  • CodeWriter23 2y ago
    Seems like what I’d expect from a movie making app. Why digital zoom your 4K camera 4x and pixelate your result down to 1080p?
    • wilg 2y ago
      If you're not shooting ProRes I'd imagine you'd get fewer compression artifacts by zooming before encoding.
• hijklmnopq 2y ago
  Why does it say it’s 4 years old? Is that just when you initially put it in there during development?
  • qzervaas 2y ago
    Content rating. Ages 4 and older.
  • k8sToGo 2y ago
    Don’t worry. For a long time, like you, I thought it refers to the age of the app. But it’s really the content rating (meant for people older than 4 years old).
    • hijklmnopq 2y ago
      lol I see. Just switched to iPhone recently so still learning new things.
• cwillu 2y ago
  …app. Pro Video Camera App. It's not in the title, but it really should be.
• wraptile 2y ago
  I wish titles on HN would clarify the platform for limited releases like this. This is iOS exclusive.
  • wilg 2y ago
    Hell hath no fury like an Android user spurned.
    • wraptile 2y ago
      Nah all software should be multi platform if possible. Locking programs in to some specific brand is just silly and you don't even need to be a open software extremist to acknowledge that. Also not mentioning the platform anywhere in the title or even article body itself is inheritly deceiving.
      • wilg 2y ago
        I think its okay for people not to do twice the work to support a type of phone they don't care about or use. Who is this deceiving? You figured it out, clearly. I think you're more mad than reasonable here.
        • wraptile 2y ago
          I figured it out after reading the half of their ad and navigating around their website where the platform isn't mentioned anywhere explicitly. Of course I'm mad for having my time wasted. This opaque obscurity feels almost like a dark pattern for farming more engagement and SEO. Also transparency in a discussions forum is objectively a good thing so extending the title would clearly be beneficial to everyone involved.
        • drittich 2y ago
          While your original comment might be taken as funny, this one quickly devolved into a strawman argument ending in a personal attack. Was that your intention?
• dukeofdoom 2y ago
  Just a future suggestion. Can you make the record button go on for a set time at set intervals. Would be useful when filming action or yourself but you just want to capture a variety of clips as you're progressing at doing something. Eg. 15 seconds every 5 minutes as you're painting a room.
• jeswin 2y ago
  Thanks for the honest pricing, and letting people own your software. I have an iPhone 11 with which I probably can't make the best use of Kino, but I bought anyway just to support you guys.
• keithalewis 2y ago
  Does it come with a gold plated audiophile quality cable i can use to tap my reticule? i don't know what any of that means, but i really, really want to feel like a big shot movie director. Where do i send my money? Is it okay if i tell people i work for HBO or Netflix while sticking an iPhony in their face, or should i tell them i am an influencer.
• lencastre 2y ago
  I’ve used FilmicPro for years until bendyspoons acquired it and made a mess out of it. From there I jumped to BlackMagicCam from the DavinciResolve team and never looked back. I already had VideoLUT and LumaFX so any kind of grading can be done afterwards. I never had Halide. Just saying, I’m trying to understand how Kino improves on this?
• seper8 2y ago
  ctrl-f android: 0 words. Really? Interesting choice not to even mention it.
• yard2010 2y ago
  Remember when Apple banned camera apps that used the volume button to take photos?
• petercooper 2y ago
  Gotta love Apple's App Store. Search for "kino" and get a competing app as an ad, but then numerous other apps that aren't Kino including a variety of keno games. Search for "kino pro video camera", same situation, but finally find it in position #5 despite being an exact title match. Bravo App Store search team. (The same happened when Threads launched.)
  • petargyurov 2y ago
    Same thing happens on Android. Even for recognised apps/brands, the top search result is an ad for a competitor. Just this morning I searched for "Strava" and the top result was some random hiking app.
  • lauriswtf 2y ago
    Well they just launched today so I'd assume that is the main reason behind low rankings. It will get up there soon.
    • rtkwe 2y ago
      Low ranking even on an exact title match though is pretty bad.
      • hbn 2y ago
        It's a 4 letter word, commonly used in internet slang to refer to a good film. I saw the announcement pretty early on and when I started typing in "kino" into the App Store search, the first autocomplete suggestion was the rest of the app's title in the listing "- pro video camera", and if I clicked that one it showed the app first (well, first result after an ad)
        • WhyNotHugo 2y ago
          It also literally means "Cinema" in [at least] two other languages.
        • rtkwe 2y ago
• infinitedata 2y ago
  Can we change the microphone source with Kino, to a specific iPhone mic or if we are using any bluetooth device, like airpods?
• spikey_sanju 2y ago
  I bought the app right away when I saw it. I wanted it for its color editing feature. The app is nice and easy to use, and I didn't have any problems with it. But when I started recording, the app crashed. It crashed again. It crashed again. It crashes while I'm still recording. This was very frustrating for me. P.S –– I use iPhone 13
• temporallobe 2y ago
  I purchased the app! I love the MF, and the grades look great. Can I make a feature request? One thing I have never seen on a camera app is a “record pause” button, like we used to have on old school video cameras (on pressing, it pauses the recording then continues when you press again, making seamless cuts in a single scene). IMO that would make this a killer app.
• magic_hamster 2y ago
  Please enlighten me, how are the color "grades" different from just a bunch of filters? Granted they have sleek marketing. But why is this app supposedly worth $10 (or $20 when not on sale)? Don't all free camera apps support filters for hdr videos?
  • moffkalast 2y ago
    It's the difference between someone going mad with lipstick, and a theatre makeup department.
• remix2000 2y ago
  Long time ago, I bought Halide from them, then they stopped supporting my preferred iOS version. Good riddance, I'm currently daily driving an Xperia and compared to it, that iOS app kinda looks like a Fisher Price toy now… ^^"
• slmjkdbtl 2y ago
  A breath of fresh air when there's no "AI" mentioned in a product launch
• ldayley 2y ago
  I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned that this appears to be a (very polished) "Hipstamatic for video" yet. I feel like Hipstamatic has been a zombie app for years now, but was once beloved and at one point in 2011-2012 people spoke about it alongside Instagram... Obviously video is harder, but the "analog film" UI looks mighty familiar... ;)
  • frutiger 2y ago
    That’s because it’s a Halide for video.
• rpastuszak 2y ago
  Has anyone used both Kino and Blackmagic? I have the latter so I’m wondering if there’s a reason for me to buy Kino. I’m on iPhone 12 Pro, so can’t use log iirc
• Nexxxeh 2y ago
  Not sure if it's my setup or me or what, but the AutoMotion video makes me feel queasy when it switches to AutoMotion on. Feels like VR sickness. (Stock old Lenovo laptop with Intel iGPU and stock base-model X250 panel.)
• kkukshtel 2y ago
  I just downloaded this and ran it on my iPhone 15 Pro Max and the video quality is incredible. I had missed that Apple even added LOG support in the past, and the quality of color coming out of this thing is incredible. This is the first time I've seen video (even just a small test) from a phone camera truly look properly "cinematic" without taking footage into Resolve to grade it manually, etc. Bravo.