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Cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality
- thunkle 2y agoSo the sicker you are the less in shape you are in? Seems obvious to me.
- jacurtis 2y agoThat's what you hypothesize. Research like this affirms your hypothesis with fact. There are historically lots of things that "seemed obvious" but couldn't hold up under research, which is why we do research. It confirms what you think or maybe it forces you to question what you think. Either way, it is good. Case and point, there is a rising opinion lately which Trump has promoted that your heart only beats a set, finite number, of beats in a lifetime. Therefore, according to this opposing hypothesis, it makes sense to not perform intense cardiovascular activity throughout your life, because it accelerates your heart hitting that finite limit that it is capable of. This opinion has gained traction in recent years and to some people it "seems obvious" that a faster heartrate might wear it out more quickly, leading to premature death. So to those people, research like this defeats their assumptions and helps them feel more confident about performing exercise because it is research-backed that Cardiovascular Fitness prolongs life. That's why research is important. Obvious shouldn't stand for anything.
- CalRobert 2y agoWeird though since you can get your resting heart rate much lower by exercising.
- _yb2s 2y agoI think they were asserting that people are out of shape because they are sick, and that this study does not imply the causality most people would assume: that getting in shape will make you live longer. The study itself can’t address the direction of causality because it is observational.
- timack 2y agoSurely the number of beats of a higher heart rate while exercising would be more than offset by the lower resting heart rate of a fitter person?
- dixie_land 2y agoNot agreeing with the (somewhat amusing) limited heartbeats theory, but even under that theory, cardio is beneficial since it lowers your resting heart rate. e.g. my HR is 50 thanks to running an hour a day, my HR during those runs are between 120 to 150, that gives 50x60x23+150x60 == 78000 beats a day a non runner might've a HR of 60 (being very generous, most folks are well above 70), that gives 60x60x24 == 86400 beats Again, the limited heartbeats theory sounds like an oversimplification. But the point of rigorous training (cardio and strength) is that your body adapts to the taxing efforts during training and doesn't need to work nearly as hard for your day to day.
- nradov 2y agoFor most adults, a resting heart rate above about 60 bpm is a sign of serious underlying pathology. Doctors usually won't recommend medical treatment unless resting heart rate exceeds 100 bpm, but over time there is a significantly increased risk of premature death.
- IIsi50MHz 2y ago> For most adults, a resting heart rate above about 60 bpm is a sign of serious underlying pathology. Sources? The claim I most recently heard is that 60-80 bpm is within normal range (which itself surprised me, because I've usually been told a target of 60 bpm resting heartrate, leaving aside the 40 bpm achievable by some athletes).
- mensetmanusman 2y agoThe less in shape you are, the sicker you can possibly get.
- datascienced 2y agoProbably a continuum of causal arrows pointing either one way or the other, in the group.
- bee_rider 2y agoThat seems counter intuitive I’d expect that, if you are in very good shape you can get more sick before dying.
- MPSimmons 2y agoThe Apple watch has a decent cardio fitness monitor. The absolute values aren't precise (since it uses VO2Max estimates, which is really only accurate if you're doing a metabolic stress test), but it's good to keep an eye on trends.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- richardanaya 2y agoVO2 max is also exercise dependent. If you trained riding bike for 3 months, then went to run down the street, your VO2 max would not transfer over.
- basil-rash 2y agoIs that true? Back when I was a crew gremlin, my VO2 max as measured via erging was off the charts. But I could apply that cardio capacity to things like running/biking/swimming pretty effectively.
- swatcoder 2y agoIt's true in the sense that you'll be better optimized towards the activities you train in most intensely in regularly, but you do develop transferable gains as well. It's just not 100% transferable. I think the GP's comment is just easy to misread.
- richardanaya 2y agoThere's famous studies about people testing VO2 max with one leg trained exercises,then looking at VO2 max with non-trained leg. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1748-1716.1976.tb10200.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1748-1716.1976...
- NoPicklez 2y agoThat's why there are separate Cycling and Running VO2 indicators You won't be a 55 Vo2 runner if you're a 55 Vo2 Cyclist, but cardiovascular fitness does cross between those activities to an extent
- busymom0 2y agoSlightly related: I have been engaging in powerlifting/weightlifting for over a decade. In my initial years, I was in the "just do weights, don't need cardio" camp. However, around 2018, I started doing cardio mostly to cut body weight as I wanted to hit my personal bests on squats, deadlifts, and bench at a lower body weight. I personally experienced that my weights moved much better, especially when I was doing more volume work (higher reps) with cardio than without cardio. Cardio seemed to improve my working capacity and I felt more efficient at doing more reps. So, I would recommend cardio even when one is trying to bulk up in weight and trying to get strong. Doesn't have to be crazy cardio either - just 10 - 15 minutes of zone 2 cardio 4 days a week might be good enough. You can also do types of cardio which work certain muscles - like stair master can be made to specifically target the quads and calves. Or rowing can be good for building the lats. Swimming is good too. Personally, I either do intervals on the stair master or intervals on an echo bike (fan bike).
- richardanaya 2y agoNon-intense aerobic exercise exercises a narrower metabolic aspect of your cells than intense anaerobic exercise. You have to be be very careful what you consider is beneficial "cardio".
- kelipso 2y agoI see a similar effect too. I usually do just lifting but I recently started doing a bit of cardio (rowing and that resistance treadmill thing) and it improved my lifting even at 5 reps. Granted my cardio was pretty bad but I felt more steady and felt like I could do more volume.
- busymom0 2y agoCompletely anecdotal but I think cardio of High-Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) type transfers over the best to weight lifting. I am going to guess it has something to do with the intense/explosive intervals in cardio making one more used to similar explosiveness on weights.
- analog31 2y ago
- lovecg 2y agoThere’s amusing statistics that show that if you’re out of shape and a smoker, you get a bigger bang for the buck from getting in shape first than quitting smoking. Disclaimer: not an endorsement of smoking.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- arendtio 2y agoHow much time do you have to get into shape? When it takes 50 years, the statistic probably doesn't hold because you will be dead by then due to the negative influence of smoking on your health.
- wrycoder 2y agoIt only takes a few months to make substantial gains in c-v fitness.
- kccqzy 2y agoDefine substantial. I find that incredible. EDIT: Now that I've seen the replies, I realize that this is from a very low baseline. I'm personally going to the gym four to five days a week already and my own cardiovascular fitness has not seen much of an improvement in many months.
- hnick 2y agoOne example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couch_to_5K https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couch_to_5K 9 weeks. I have basic fitness but have never been close to completing a 5km run (I think I finally realised I have breathing issues - seeing an ENT soon).
- s1artibartfast 2y agoNot a source, but it tracks for me. Walk, jog, or run daily and you will have massive CV improvement from baseline in 3 months. people can and do go from being exhausted walking to their car to being capable running many miles in an incredibly short time. The typical human body is very responsive when pushed.
- BenFranklin100 2y agoI am disappointed by how poor primary care is in the developed world. It could easily be made better by including a VO2Max test and a DEXA scan every few years. On my own dime, I took both (cost was ~ $150 total from a private provider) and the DEXA scan revealed I carried too much visceral fat and my cardiovascular fitness was only average, things that never came up in my yearly physical. The same applies for basic strength testing, another predictor of morbidity and mortality.
- swatcoder 2y agoFor better or worse (worse), people don't go to the doctor for lifestyle analysis and rarely take lifestyle advice from their doctors. They go to their doctors to know when to start medical interventions. Even simple waist-to-hip ratio assessement would be a big win for identifying lifestyle concerns, but neither that nor the far more involved VO2Max and DEXA rests are going to become standard unless they becoming a gaiting condition for some celebrated drug or procedure. And that's as much because of the patient's perspective of what they want from doctors as it is because of the doctors or broader establishment.
- readthenotes1 2y agoI know an aged cardiologist who jokes: "I tell my patients they will need to lose weight, but whatever they do they must not lose it too fast. They always follow that advice just fine"
- makeitdouble 2y ago> Even simple waist-to-hip ratio assessement Settling for subpar "could be good enough" heuristics instead of doing actual measurements is partly why people are less receptive. Basically it'd just be telling them they're fat, and not what's their actual individual risk, and it would also make tracking progress overly difficult: what if after a year of exercice their VO2Max greatly improves while waist to hip only slightly changed ? Overweight people already have distrust of doctors just telling them to first lose weight and dismiss their specific requests for help, additional advice vaguely based on statistics would probably not help.
- SoftTalker 2y agoThis seems completely unsurprising.
- nullc 2y agoBut do they establish a causal arrow? If you're in chronic pain because you're dying of something you're not exactly going to be likely to do a lot of cardio workout. :) Without care you might conclude, for example, that rock climbing prevents becoming a quadriplegic since there aren't any quadriplegic rock climbers... when in fact to the extent that they're related at all rock climbing sometimes causes it.
- nradov 2y agoCausality is likely bidirectional here.
- datascienced 2y agoBecause you couldn’t say “in mice” :-)
- hinkley 2y agoExercise does have some positive contribution to inflammatory response. Chronic pain is a pretty big bucket, though.
- Aperocky 2y agoFortunately, this seems relatively simple to change (compared to other things with this magnitude of impact). It was a transformative experience to go from 40 VO2max to 57 (as reported by Apple Watch, and losing 30lbs on the way) over the past 12 months. The best part about it is that I didn't even have to give up anything - the extra energy I gained from 90-120 minutes of aerobics per day also had the effect of making everything else more efficient.
- purplerabbit 2y agothat’s an amazing change. Could you elaborate on your training regimen?
- Aperocky 2y agoIt's a mixture of running and cycling and really less planning than what I should have. Generally, my runs are between 5-10K and rides are 30km/20mi ish. More days than not I'll do both, but on other days I only get one done due to time issues. Weekends are usually for longer rides. I average around 200km/130mi on the bike and 40-50km of running per week. I've had to build up to this level gradually so it started from a much lower volume but I've been able to keep it pretty consistent for this year. It's gotten to a point where if I don't do any exercise I would feel really bad physiologically so it drives me to go out everyday. But I essentially choose what to do at the hour and since most of the training is zone 2/endurance it doesn't matter too much.
- jebarker 2y ago40 to 57 is a huge increase in a year - kudos!
- Aperocky 2y agoThank you! This post is a little braggy but it's also one of the best things I've did and I'm genuinely proud of it. The result and the process wildly exceeded my expectation at the time when I started last summer and it made me happier, more efficient, and even gave me time to reflect (since there's not much else you can do while going on a long ride/run) mentally. If anyone is thinking about it - give it a try! The starting months are the hardest, but once it gets going a positive feedback loop takes over. I've been able to convince some people in my life to start exercising when they saw me change so substantially in a single year.
- fbdab103 2y agoWith the caveat that everything fitness is mostly a bunch of non-researched beliefs... Which is better for establishing cardio fitness? Short and hard vs longer and moderate?
- hinkley 2y agoCardio is aerobic exercise. If you have to ask, you’re not a world class athlete and the answer is longer and moderate.
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y agoWhat’s the best way to accurately measure one’s VO2 max, or at least ballpark it sufficiently so that you can track improvement over time without it being lost in measurement noise?
- dnissley 2y agoProbably a cooper test -- run as far as you can in 12 mins. Then there is a formula to convert that distance to vo2 max.
- eternauta3k 2y agoIf you have a power meter (e.g. assault bike) just measure with what power you can do the Norwegian 4x4 protocol.
- bo1024 2y agoDo you need to measure VO2 max specifically? If your form of exercise is jogging/running, you will easily be able to tell if you're improving by tracking distance and time of your runs. If you want to be precise, you can e.g. race a timed 5k once per month under the same conditions. But if you're a beginner, you won't need that to be able to tell you're improving, just the feel of difficulty to maintain a certain pace will change noticeably. As someone else mentioned, a classic poor man's test of VO2 max is simply to time trial a set amount, such as seeing how far you can run in 10 minutes, and use a calculator. So the same thing with extra steps.
- sn9 2y agoIt's cheaper and more useful to just track something like your 5k time over time. If it's meaningfully improving from year to year, you're improving all the things you care about. (The best way to improve that is to slowly increase your volume of cardiovascular training over time, with at least 80% being zone 2 work.)
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- electrondood 2y agoI was blown away at just how little exercise is required to significantly increase your lifespan: 20 minutes a day, 3 times a week. That's it. The Copenhagen City Heart Study, published in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology in 2018 found that light jogging for 20 minutes a day, 3x a week reduces all-cause mortality by 78%. That's insane.
- lostmsu 2y agoAssuming 80 year lifespan -10 years of childhood this comes out to approximately 1 year spent on exercise. That does not include preparation and recovery times.
- snemvalts 2y agoIf you have to measure time spent and do cost/benefit analysis, you're most likely not going to stick with it for the entirety of life.
- refurb 2y agoIt's a logarithmic curve. On a 1 to 10 scale, increasing activity from 0 to 1 provides a large decrease in mortality. Going from 1 to 2 another big jump. But 2 to 3 is less, until finally it plateaus. But yes, people don't realize that even just walking at a moderate pace for 20 min 3 times a week provides huge benefits if you are otherwise completely sedentary.
- whateveracct 2y agoI've been walking every day and lifting weights 2x a week. I feel good so far but the hard part is doing it for years and through seasons (both literal and figurative).
- speedgoose 2y agoYou should add some diversity in your activities and you will perhaps identify some that you enjoy more at a given time.
- throwaway2037 2y agoAbout lifting weights: The trick for me is to keep a diary of my current exercises and weight levels. (It's very simple -- just 5 mins or less to maintain each workout.) This will be very motivating if you can increase weight, reps, or number of sets ("total volume").
- nilsherzig 2y agoI use FitNotes (android, no ads) to take these notes. It can show me a breakdown of the workout volume per body part and some trends like estimated one rep max. It can also automatically start a timer after you've entered the data of your last set.
- whateveracct 2y agoI already have a weekly planner I put in my traveler's notebook. This is a good idea! I already have a boolean "did I do it" tracker, but it would be nice to see the numbers go up :D Maybe put it in a spreadsheet.
- throwaway2037 2y agoI use a single printed sheet for each week. I carry last week plus this week. That helps me to update the current sheet based on last week. Then each week, I throw away the old sheet. It's enough for me. As long as I am progressing week over week, that is enough. Are you aware of meso-cycles? Basically: 4-8 weeks on, then one week at half weight, half reps, or full rest. You can really build a lot more muscle using meso-cycles.
- EcommerceFlow 2y agoIf anyone wants a shortcut to an extremely good workout, look into rowing (MAKE SURE you learn proper form!). I focus on "maxing out" sets of 500m since it correlates well to basketball cardio, and I have infinite cardio even in my mid 30's.
- HPMOR 2y agoI’ve recently taken up the erg machine doing an hour a day, and it’s been phenomenal. The one problem I’m faced with is canabalizing my chest muscles for increased legs and back. Eating enough calories is actually impossible.
- oldpersonintx 2y ago[dead]
- refurb 2y agoYup, for all the risks that people focus on (microplastics, pesticide residues, etc), they don't do the easiest thing to ensure health - exercise.
- TechDebtDevin 2y agoWell I think you have that backwards, most people concern themselves with the former because they are the easiest to address. It's very easy to just eat less and buy healthier food. Getting your running shoes on and going for a run when you're out of shape and overweight is extremely hard for most people in that category.
- refurb 2y agoThat's certainly true, and nothing wrong with doing the "easiest" first, but it's interesting that people get so focused on such small changes in risk all the while ignoring the big ones.
- xwowsersx 2y agoAre there cheap fitness bands or smart watches that can somewhat accurately track VO2 max?
- nateberkopec 2y agoYou don’t need a watch. You can estimate VO2 max yourself by doing a max effort 1.5 mile run and applying a regression equation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4795745/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4795745/ That’s all the watches are doing anyway. Even if you do buy a watch, keep in mind you need to run regular max effort runs to get an accurate value.
- Mathnerd314 2y agoThe relationship isn't linear, you can see in https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/54/20/1195#sec-16 https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/54/20/1195#sec-16 that above 2200 MET-minutes/week there is increased cancer risk which outweighs the cardiovascular benefits. Now admittedly it is a very weak correlation, and MET measurement is imprecise, but I think it is safe to say that there are risks associated with over-exercising and while being in shape is good, being a ultra-marathon runner or other extreme fitness enthusiast is unhealthy long-term, and the risks start sooner than you might expect. (2200 MET-minutes/week is about 3 hours of 8mph running per week)
- julianeon 2y agoI remember reading somewhere that, to maximize your health, run as much as you can each week, you won't hit the upper bound when it gets bad. In the example you cited, that's 36 hours (!) of runnning in a week: meaning I'd have to run 6 hours a day and only take Sunday off each week before I was officially running too much. And I've noticed I can't run more than 4 days a week anyway, so even that's off limits. 6 hours a day, 6 days a week, even under optimal conditions, wouldn't be something I'd approach even if I was retired. So practically speaking, "run as much as you can before your body aches stops you" seems like a good rule of thumb.
- Mathnerd314 2y agoI'm not sure what math you're using. 12.9 MET for running * 3 hours * 60 minutes/hour is 2322 MET-minutes, so just 3 hours of running is sufficient to exceed the 2200 threshold. 36 hours of running would be 27864 MET-minutes, of course it is too much. But 3 hours of running in a week is quite easy to exceed, e.g. if you run half an hour every morning. There are some studies which suggest that the artery buildup from frequent running is not bad, but these don't take cancer or other factors into account - in contrast all-cause mortality is one of the most comprehensive statistics available. The drawback is that although it gives you a number, that number might be affected by unknown variables.
- voisin 2y ago> In the example you cited, that's 36 hours (!) of runnning in a week Isn’t OP saying explicitly that 2200 MET minutes per week is simply 3 hours of running per week at 8mph? Where does your 36 hours come from?
- manoji 2y agoI was surprised how much cardio fitness improves by just losing weight. After losing close to 10 kgs I was able to run a 5K consistently 3 times a week and reached a respectable level of fitness for playing basketball
- scotteric 2y agoYou literally feel lighter on your feet, like there's a spring in your step when you lose a good amount of weight. Imagine carrying around a 10kg weight with you all day.
- chrisoconnell 2y agoOver the past 11 months, I've lost 122lbs, from 330lbs to 208lbs. (May 30, 2023 - Today) For the first 2 months, cardio was not part of it. Really focusing on diet, reintroducing myself to portions of Whole Foods to hit macro goals. Really focusing on vegetables and protein, large quantities of low calorie foods that digest relatively slowly to keep me satiated for long periods. They're also quick to digest. I was always active, even at 330lbs I would mountain bike (ascending and downhill) comfortable on black diamonds, same with snowboarding. This continued, but I didn't try to explicitly do and track cardio. After I lost 35lbs, I added CrossFit once a week. Then 2 times a week. Then 3 times a week. I noticed that olympic lifts and squats would cause extreme systemic fatigue, and would leave me dizzy and out of breath. After a couple months, I stopped doing CrossFit due to an injury caused that that effect, and started isolated training for muscle hypertrophy utilizing machines for 5+ days a week, but missed the cardio that CrossFit gave. I was about 260lbs at this point, and started with incline walking at about 3mph at max incline for 40 minutes. Then I started to begin my cardio with a 6mph run until I was out of breath and a high heart rate, and then began the incline walking. After a week or so, I began running the a mile at the fastest speed I could, then switching to incline walking until my heart rate dropped, and alternated running and incline walking for 40 minutes. Then, in November, I ran my first 5k in 34 minutes. I was hooked. I walked a couple minutes of it in the middle, but was pround myself. Today, I can run a 5k in 25 minutes if I push myself. Today, I ran 5 miles without stopping with several hundred feet of elevation gain. Cardio health is life changing. I used to be tired walking up large sets of stairs, and it was embarrassing to not be able to hold a conversation for long while walking up stairs. It's also a myth, perpetuated by highly trained athletes that you cannot gain muscle and do cardio, or that you cannot do these things while in a caloric deficit. I have lost nearly 1% of my body weight per week as a vegetarian while gaining significant muscle mass (today, I am about 15-17% body fat at 6'1 and 208lbs). The biggest thing I can say is it's never too late to start, and it's important to be consistent and find what works for you. At 32 years old, I have added years to my life, and feel and look better than I ever have. Also, cardio gives an amazing dopamine rush that beyond addicting. Highly recommend it. But don't forget the resistance training. Anyone can do it. One day at a time. As someone in tech, the process of rebuilding yourself is addicting once you start to see progress on every front. VO2Max Increasing. Resting Heart Rate Dropping. Waist Shrinking. Chest, Arms, Legs Growing. Muscle definition increasing. Lift PRs increasing. And you look better in clothing.
- kamaal 2y agoNot sure how true this is, I heard in the Joe Rogan podcast, cardio vascular fitness, like the extreme kind correlates with nearly the entire disease spectrum. It doesn't apply to something like 'acts of god' type things like Cancer or COVID. But it seems to be the best bet against aging, and other diseases. My favorite exercise in this regard is Swimming and Kettlebell training. Disclaimer: This is not an endorsement for Swinning and Kettlebell training.
- mr_toad 2y agoExercise is a factor in reducing the risk of several types of cancer. And fitness does reduce the effects of COVID even if it wont stop you getting it.
- TechDebtDevin 2y agoIt turns out having the intelligence to not listen to JRs advice on most things will likely increase your life expectancy.
- sn9 2y agoRogan's a gullible moron. Go to people who know what they're talking about like the Barbell Medicine podcast for evidence-based fitness recommendations.
- perfectritone 2y agoeasy hack: maintain a garden in an area with poor soil. between clearing, aerating, digging, mulching and weeding you can get all of your cardio AND some fresh veggies!
- jjallen 2y agoShouldn't the title be "Weak cardio fitness is a strong, consistent predictor of morbidity and mortality"?
- weatherlite 2y agoIt's also absolutely amazing for mental health. It's a shame it isn't considered a first line of treatment for mental health because it's super effective (and free).
- snemvalts 2y agoInstead, people try to fix it with antidepressants, benzodiazepines or something else. It feels a bit like the US approach to pain management – instead of massages or physical therapy, some opioid pill is cheaper to prescribe.
- dailykoder 2y agoI dislike this black n white rhetoric from both sides. "Just do some workout" - "no this doesn't work for me". Yes, workout does help, but mental illness is still real. Both sides should try to be more sensitive and more understanding in my opinion. I can't fix my social anxiety through workout. But I sure can feel better about myself when doing it and then approach those anxieties with more confidence, but the anxieties are still there.
- weatherlite 2y agoI'm not saying that workouts will necessarily fix your social anxiety or any other mental disorder, but I don't know of anything else that necessarily will - meds and psychotherapy are also quite limited in their effectiveness. All I'm saying is people should at least consider that exercise (and more specifically - mild to rigorous cardio workouts) can be just as effective as psychotherapy / meds are. The evidence is there. I don't expect this understanding to come from therapists, this needs to come from society at large. Also, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive, you can do both.
- throwaway2037 2y ago> my social anxiety I am considering trying some beta blockers. Did you try them? They seem like an interesting experiement.
- jimt1234 2y agoSorta related: My boomer mother is experiencing cognitive decline, probably the early stages of dementia. Her doctor said that as we age, blood vessels in the brain can get starved for blood and eventually dry up, making them useless. This is the biological explanation of her loss of memory and difficulty thinking. I asked if there's anything that can be done to at least slow this decline. She said the best medicine for the brain is physical exercise; it forces blood into the areas of the brain where blood vessels are at risk, prolonging its well-being. BTW, I asked the doctor how much exercise is enough. Her response: If you smell the same when you're done exercising as when you started, it's not enough. I found that both humorous and helpful. Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor or expert. If a loved-one is experiencing memory loss or difficulty thinking, see a doctor.
- steve_adams_86 2y agoThere is a ton of research supporting this. It’s really important information. Elsewhere in this topic I mentioned exercise helps me with depression. I’ve speculated that it’s due to simply making my brain work better. Depression often feels like your brain isn’t working. Sometimes it extends to your body. There’s more to it, but what exercise does to me feels a bit like turning the lights up a bit and taking some weights off (mentally and physically).
- sn9 2y agoYou can see the physical activity guidelines mentioned here: https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/where-should-my-priorities-be-to-improve-my-health/ https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/where-should-my-priorit... Note that these are minimums and that there's really no ceiling on getting benefits in the literature so long as you increase volume and intensity in a sustainable way and are eating and sleeping enough to sufficiently recover.
- cycomanic 2y agoWeird that people seem to assert that causality is not established? There are hundreds to thousands of studies that show that pretty much all markers for mortality and morbidity go down with excercise, i.e. put someone regulalrly on a treadmill for a couple of month and pretty much all health markers improve. People implying that the study shows only correlation really don't seem to understand how we establish causality in science.
- prerok 2y agoWell, I don't doubt that cardio fitness decreases the chance for morbidity and mortality, but in this study they only established correlation. I think that in science we have to be extra careful just what we are saying. And saying that this study proves causality would be wrong. I am sure there are other studies that could (do?) prove it but this statistical analysis can only prove correlation.
- bigfudge 2y agoWe only have correlation for lots of important results. Smoking cigarettes is one example. Experiments are almost always better, and a lot of correlational research is terrible. But knowing something for sure doesn’t always require an experiment.
- caeril 2y agoThat's a bit different. There's no reasonable path to reverse-causality with smoking. "People prone to developing lung cancer are more likely to take up smoking" doesn't really make sense. On the other hand, "Fat and unhealthy people are more prone not to exercise" is a reasonable reverse-causality position, for all kind of reasons. Your knees hurt, you're self-conscious, it's extremely uncomfortable, your fat jiggles, etc. I'm not saying direct causality doesn't exist here, I'm just saying that reverse-causality is reasonable, whereas with smoking it is not. Assuming causation from this particular correlation is harder than it is with smoking.
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- uptownfunk 2y agoRegardless of what it is, if I don’t get my morning run in, I am a very unpleasant person to be around! Running has changed my life in all ways- I am much more calm, tolerant, positive, energetic. If the whole country did a mandated morning run, assuming you’re able, I really think this world would be a much better place!! Start slow, 5 minutes, breathe, go slow, and enjoy the beautiful weather here this time of year.
- sahila 2y agoYour comment just gave me a thought of how cool would it be if society had a mandated activity hour in the morning. I’m imagining loud speakers attached to poles outside making announcements and all businesses closed for that hour, and people all out and about exercising, walking, running, talking. Yes it’s a bit like school but society can be so much better if we prioritized good living!
- kccqzy 2y agoYou just described exactly what happened in some communist countries. This was what happened in USSR, and in China decades ago.
- Grimm665 2y ago"Winston sprang to attention in front of the telescreen, upon which the image of a youngish woman, scrawny but muscular, dressed in tunic and gym-shoes, had already appeared. 'Arms bending and stretching!' she rapped out. 'Take your time by me. One, two, three, four! One, two, three, four! Come on, comrades, put a bit of life into it! One, two, three, four! One, two, three, four! ...'"
- squirrel6 2y agoI’m going to plug Peter Attia, MD again here. In his podcast with Mike Joyner, MD (an exercise physiologist of Mayo Clinic) there is fairly detailed discussion of the literature on this topic.
- panick21_ 2y agoYeah. I started walking with a backpack like he does. Its so much more enjoyable then jogging and I feel the impact on my whole body. Instead of slow jogging for Zone 2, rucking works well.
- bhaney 2y agoSheesh, fine. I'll start jogging
- keybored 2y agoSome of my peers are deep into running. I don’t get it. Running is sometimes fun for me but most often painful. Then I overheard one of them (the fittest) say to a budding runner that he [should] do mostly easy sessions. Okay what’s easy to him? He said that so slow that it can feel awkward and unnatural. What? Then I searched around and found out about Zone 2 and how you should do most of your work in that zone when building aerobic fitness. And that it is characterized by being able to hold a conversation, although strained. I searched around and found atheletes like amateur ultrarunners say the same thing. Then it hit me. I’ve probably been jogging a lot in Zone 3. Or higher? Because the harder you go the more benefit, right? That seems to be the basic logic for everything.[1] Relatively short, painful sessions. Have I been conditioning myself to associate cardio with more pain than is necessary for the average session? So maybe I should just go on the stationary bike today, do a “conversatitional” (talk to myself) pace and listen to my audiobook for an hour? And try to not let my groin fall asleep. [1] With nuances like go-to-failure for hypertrophy in weightlifting and more back-off-a-little for strength training.
- terhechte 2y agoI watch all streaming shows on a rowing machine with not-so-high speed and not-so-high resistance. The show keeps me entertained and sometimes I even forget that I'm rowing. Previously I did that with an iPad 12.9" next to the machine, but I've just started watching shows on the Quest 3 and that's way better.
- oezi 2y agoUff that must get hot under the Quest.
- gadilif 2y agoI didn't try exercising with it, but, Quest 2 was getting too hot for me even after a short while playing Beat Saber for example. Quest 3 is much better in that aspect. I can actually keep it on for long durations, and heat isn't a problem at all.
- 2y ago
- reify 2y agoNot sure about this one. When in my fourties I looked in the mirror one day and thought "my god man you have piled on a few pounds lately". I immediately went out and joined a gym for a bit of indoor running So, I went weekly for an hour or two. I thoroughly enjoyed it. My I'm not sure! I was happily running along on my treadmill one day, hreart rate at a constant 125bpm, whe suddenly there was an almighty commotion on the treadmill next to me. The guy running next to me had collapsed. He was 52 years old. I knew this because we had had a few chats. He suffered a heart attack in the gym and died on the treadmill. Poor guy. Poor family. I gave up going to the gym after that.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- maksimur 2y agoSomething similar happened at the gym I went to years ago, although I wasn't there when it happened. The poor guy collapsed while lifting weights. WEIGHTS. I kept reluctantly going for a few days before stopping. Then on the radio I heard about a guy collapsing while running on the treadmill, just like your fellow gymgoer, and it was the last drop in the bucket that kept me from doing any exercise other than slow to moderately paced walks. The prospect of collapsing from something that should make me healthier terrifies me.
- maksimur 2y ago*prospect of dying
- mierz00 2y agoThis baffles me. It’s well known that exercise is beneficial for overall health. Sure, some people die doing it just like some people die doing literally anything else.
- maksimur 2y agoConsider he was in his late 30s, which makes this even more absurd. For all I know, as you suggest, he could've also collapsed from doing heavy house chores or renovation, and it's something I've been careful not to overdo as well for that same fear.
- joduplessis 2y agoI've been running a consistent 10-11ish kilometers 5 times a week for the last 13 years. Recent (old) re-injury has forced me to switch to weight training about 6 times a week - and absolutely loving it. I'll probably switch to something like Crossfit next year to take up a more cardio-routine, but it's showed how you don't need to necessarily "run" to stay fit & healthy (although I do miss it a lot).
- hyperthesis 2y agoCan anyone give a sense of how much fitter 3.5 mL/kg/min is, in practical terms? e.g. distance cycled/how out of breath? > For every 1-MET (3.5 mL/kg/min) higher level of CRF, we identified substantial reductions in the risk of all-cause, CVD and cancer mortality. We also identified significant reductions in the risk of incident hypertension, heart failure, stroke, atrial fibrillation and type 2 diabetes per higher MET. > For most, a 1-MET higher level of CRF is attainable through a regular aerobic exercise programme. For example, in a large population-based observational study of over 90 000 participants, nearly 30% were able to increase their CRF by 1-MET (median follow-up was 6.3 years) without intervention.
- sdimitris 2y agoCardio fitness is an established predictor of mortality and longevity, but testing it requires a proper maximal-exercise treadmill test that one needs to reach their maximum heart rate (costly & potentially risky). Modern wearables can estimate VO2max but they require some sort of workout data, potentially excluding the majority of the population (=sedentary people). Our recent research at the University of Cambridge developed and validated one of the first models for non-workout VO2max estimation. Paper: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41746-022-00719-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41746-022-00719-1 TLDR: we can now estimate cardio-fitness just by tracking your everyday movement/heart rate
- ubermonkey 2y agoThis is why I keep cycling even in periods when I'm not that into cycling. At 54, I know that if I lose a lot of fitness, it'll be much harder to regain.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y agoFor people who misinterpreted the title like me, thinking that exercising is negative: Conclusion Our findings showed that high CRF is strongly associated with lower risk of premature mortality, incident chronic conditions (ie, hypertension, heart failure, stroke, atrial fibrillation, dementia and depression), and poor prognosis in those with existing chronic conditions. The consistency of the evidence across a variety of health outcomes demonstrates the importance of CRF and the need to incorporate this measure in routine clinical and public health practice. Future studies should focus on outcomes with limited evidence and where the certainty of the evidence was rated as very low by improving study quality.
- Hayatabad 2y agounless you're sprinting, jogging and any form of slow running destroys the knees, loses muscles mass, enlarges the heart and provides no health value. Bunch of amateurs.
- nojvek 2y agoSource?
- Hayatabad 2y agoDoug McGuff, "Body by Science". Downvotes to my very helpful and lifesaving original comment is by losers who will run till they die.
- nojvek 2y agoYou’re getting downvoted because of name calling, not because you have a different view. “Losers who will run till they die” “Bunch of amateurs” That level of inflammatory discourse ain’t welcome here.
- Hayatabad 2y agotruth is bitter, but it's good medicine. This level of stupidity ain't welcome to my brain either.
- septic-liqueur 2y agoBeen doing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for over two years now for twice a week. My cardio fitness definitely increased and I feel it has done great for my mental state. But man, in all other physical aspects I feel it has not done well to my body. Neck cranks, twisted spine, sore throat from getting choked, occasional black eye. So I'm kind of torn between the improvement to my cardio and mental health and on the other side every other physical aspect
- alex-korr 2y agoVolume trumps everything for cycling/running - these are low skill so to speak sports. 60 mpw for 18 weeks will get most people into a Boston qualifying time. Zone 1/2 also has the advantage of lowering the risk of injury, which is critical for volume.
- ChiperSoft 2y agoOkay, cool, but until science finds a way to teach my AuDHD addled brain to not scream in agony at the mere thought of doing exercise, this knowledge does nothing but make me depressed.