19 ms·

Coding in Vision Pro

361 points by willemlaurentz 3y ago

swader999 3y ago
I'd rather work from a real mountaintop on a crappy laptop. Actually, no. I'll work at work and leave it all behind on the mountain.
- ngneer 3y ago
  Exactly!
- anonzzzies 3y ago
  How about work and live on a mountain and forget about this idea of ‘at work’?
  - swader999 3y ago
    It's nice to keep it separated. Working vacations never really go that well.
willemlaurentz 3y ago
At first I thought it would be weird, but after a few minutes it all felt very natural and a deep work focus was achieved without me really realising it. I tried to grasp some of the awe I experienced in this blog post.
- shakow 3y ago
  How is the resolution? I never tried a Vision Pro yet, but that was my main gripe with my Rift. Indeed, IME, the ‶real world″ size of the windows is nothing, it's their angular resolution that is a make or break.
  - willemlaurentz 3y ago
    I love high dpi displays as I like text (and other details) to be crisp and clear. Vision Pro is approaching a quality that I feel is acceptable, somewhere between "flawless reality" and a decent screen. The virtual environments are crisper than the camera passthrough mixed environments. There is definitely room for improvement on screen quality, but in general I am impressed.
  - larrysalibra 3y ago
    It ranges from okay to not that bad. It’s not as good as the “retina” screens in Apple’s other products. I can definitely see pixels on the device if I’m wearing contacts unlike what most of the early reviewers claimed. But it’s not so bad as to be unusable and you don’t really notice them in most contexts - the main place I notice pixels is using it as a screen for macOS. VisionOS apps are rendered very large by default so the resolution deficiencies aren’t as apparent. Overall it is very impressive but there’s also much room for improvement in resolution.
    - ribosometronome 3y ago
      For non-text content, I think it's pretty good, actually. Watching content in Disney+ or Max's theater modes is really satisfying despite those virtual screens being sub-4k.
    - bed99 3y ago
      I don't think it is possible to see the pixels, they are the size of a red blood cell. But maybe you can see antialiasing or noise from the cameras. Personally I can't see any pixelation. It's even better than reality. That being said passthrough cameras' resolution do suck but it's not what it's important and probably the easiest problem to solve.
      - hatsix 3y ago
        sure, they're small, but some of them are closer to your eye lense than your retina. The pixels per degree are lower than any Apple product in the past 10 years
    - euroderf 3y ago
      Now there is a topic. How does it work with contacts ? Does it obviate the need for the 149$ Zeiss add-ons ? Do you blink enough in the environment ?
      - robterrell 3y ago
        I have been using contacts and just got the zeiss lenses today. So far it's roughly equivalent. I think there is a touch more distortion (chromatic aberration along the edges) with the inserts. But my contacts are progressives and kinda sucked for this, single vision would probably be great.
  - grumbel 3y ago
    The original Oculus Rift had 1080x1200, VisionPro has 3660x3200, field of view is similar. In virtual monitor terms that means a Rift can display a 640x480 monitor and the VisionPro a 1920x1080 one. Still quite far away from Retina, but should be pretty usable, especially since it allows making the virtual screens bigger than a real monitor can be.
    - newshorts 3y ago
      Nah it’s bigger than 1080… You can choose 4k resolution and get extra real estate
  - joshstrange 3y ago
    It's better than anything else I've tried by a long shot, which admittedly is only the Quest 2, but still not good enough to work in all day. It wasn't the weight/comfort for me, just it was too blurry. I fully expect to be using one eventually as an external monitor replacement but it's got a little ways to go. Probably needs another generation or 2 of screen/camera improvements. It's _good_ but not worth keeping unless you already use mostly iPad apps for work.
- jdriselvato 3y ago
  You have a great humorist writing style. I enjoyed the read and it just makes me want one even more. I just went to an Apple Store to demo the Vision Pro and walked out feeling like I had a religious experience. I was overcame with emotion over that immersion demo, those baby rhinos completely blew my mind. I'm booking another appointment soon to get another taste. I really hope the price becomes manageable for consumers like me; I love the tech and want the future but can't afford it.
  - iknowstuff 3y ago
    Have you tried the Quest 3?
larrysalibra 3y ago
“Active noise cancellation for your eyes” is a great way to put. I also have found myself using the mount hood environment set to daytime as the setting for macOS + visionOS multi-window set up. I took it off yesterday before some friends came over for dinner and I was kind of shocked that it had gotten dark outside because my mind felt like it was still day time since the sun was out in mount hood. I had actually been sitting on my office in darkness for a least an hour.
- xnx 3y ago
  Is there a setting to allow the environment to change lighting conditions on a 24 hour schedule?
  - LeoPanthera 3y ago
    Yes, in fact that's the default, it tracks sunrise and sunset based on your location.
    - larrysalibra 3y ago
      Yeah I changed the default to day which in hindsight wasn’t a great idea especially since I’m trying to recover from North America -> Asia jet lag.
- enos_feedler 3y ago
  Okay but as I sit here in my own private space in a city, one of these I need and one of these I don't.
frozenport 3y ago
Had the opposite experience. My 6k monitor kicked the butt of the spatial computing screen. My Macbook was easier to use. I could use my phone laying on the side. There were ultimately a lot better, less blurry display options.
- mangosteenjuice 3y ago
  Which 6k monitor do you have? I'm looking to get one.
  - frozenport 3y ago
    Dell UltraSharp 32 6K Monitor - U3224KB is pretty good. The same as the `Pro Display XDR` but with more ports, and half the cost.
    - jwells89 3y ago
      Have the kinks with the U3224KB been worked out? I had one for a while but ended up returning it and replacing it with a Studio Display due to a bunch of papercuts (blog post with details in my profile, if interested) mostly concerning its functionality with macOS (though there were a couple of issues with the monitor itself too, mainly the AG coating).
      - frozenport 3y ago
        Well I’ve been using it with Mac os
    - radicality 3y ago
      I don’t think I would call it “the same” as the Pro Display XDR, pretty sure it’s not the same panel? I have the XDR and got it as I live in an apartment which gets a ton of natural sunlight and the XDR goes to 1000 nits sustained brightness (1600 peak for hdr). The specs of the Dell panel indicate max brightness of 450 nits, so not at all comparable.
- joshstrange 3y ago
gumby 3y ago
I am thinking of upgrading my work station and I suppose this is cheaper than three 5K TB monitors. But is it really as good?
- jgalentine007 3y ago
  LG 24" 4k monitors are like $350 - might be worth a try. I have two with my M3 Pro and they look fantastic - sharp text, good color and viewing angles.
  - wilsonnb3 3y ago
    I have a pair of those, they are great. Wish they were a bit brighter but can't complain for the price.
- djsavvy 3y ago
  If that's the alternative you're considering, get the monitors. If you're like me and have been dying to be a bit less tethered to one location for a while, or you want to get a lot out of a little space, this device has finally crossed the threshold of usability (and being a joy to use). But if your baseline is three 5K monitors in one spot, you're gonna be disappointed.
- joshstrange 3y ago
  It doesn't beat 3 2K monitors let alone 5K. I know, I have 3 2Ks and the Apple Vision Pro didn't come close to competing. It will one day and I can't wait but I returned mine for now.
- zone411 3y ago
  Get a 43'' center monitor with two LG DualUP 16:18 ratio monitors on the sides. Cheaper and much much better than Vision Pro. You will need a large desk though.
  - metaphor 3y ago
    > Get a 43'' center monitor with two LG DualUP 16:18 ratio monitors on the sides. Sounds nice for the office, but find myself conflicted with the notional operating value prop of continuously juicing north of 200W less graphics compute (?!) just putting idle pixels on screen on a home workstation that seldom gets shutdown. Curious if you've realized meaningful productivity gains since switching to that setup, and what graphics card(s) are you using to drive them?
jm20 3y ago
I tried to use the Vision Pro for work, and I'm not sure if it was just my eyes or what, but looking at code inside of that thing was just...exhausting. When I took it off, I looked at my regular monitors with a newfound love. I'd love for this thing to reach it's full potential as this 'work from a mountaintop, but really your garage' device, but I feel like until the resolution gets to the same as existing monitors (no small task, I know) it's just...not as good for the vast majority of use cases.
- judge2020 3y ago
  Were you using macos virtual display? Using the passthrough to look at monitors is passable but not suitable for even a few minutes of use.
  - joshstrange 3y ago
    Not you you responded to but I tried both. I mean I never seriously thought the passthrough would be good enough, and it wasn't, but it was just barely legible and useful when I was trying to pair my AVP to my MBP. But I really tried to like MVD and I just couldn't do it. It wasn't clear enough and felt like an added "tax" on my mind, also I felt very limited compared to when using my external monitors.
  - lucb1e 3y ago
    > not suitable for even a few minutes of use Because of lag, or why? Many people work on remote desktop all day long, and I spend my fair share of time in SSH sessions as well. It's not like it improves the experience compared to working locally, but for me it works fine so long as you're within a few hundred kilometers without much jitter. On the VR, the screen should move as you move your head because that position isn't what's being passed through, so that can't be the difference either. I don't understand (without having a device myself) how/whether this is worse than normal video streaming over LAN?
    - judge2020 3y ago
      You misunderstood, the video passthrough of your surroundings is not good enough. Using the macOS virtual display is fine, there is some noticeable streaming latency, maybe 30ms (that would be solved if it could just take DP over USB-C or Thunderbolt in) but it's suitable for long term use.
LeoPanthera 3y ago
My biggest problem is that it is sometimes difficult to read the keys on my keyboard. I really wish that it could do object recognition on my keyboard and re-render the keycaps. This would be especially useful in "environments", which make the keyboard disappear entirely.
- notso411 3y ago
  That is a really good idea
  - modeless 3y ago
    Such a great idea that Meta implemented it for Quest already. https://www.meta.com/help/quest/articles/headsets-and-accessories/meta-quest-accessories/tracked-keyboards-meta-quest/ https://www.meta.com/help/quest/articles/headsets-and-access...
- Zelphyr 3y ago
  This. I'm a touch-typist but I still find myself fumbling around trying to find where to put my hands when I first start typing while in an environment. I don't do that when I can see my keyboard in my peripheral vision though, so I think the keyboard object recognition would help.
- adr1an 3y ago
  I thought oculus already had that!
- joshstrange 3y ago
  I was surprised Apple didn't have this. My Meta Quest 2 had a super crappy version I tried for all of 2 minutes. The AVP passthrough and rendering content behind your hand (cut out?) both leave some to be desired. The little indicator that floats over your keyboard is cool, touch bar coming back from the grave. But I felt like I couldn't dial in the environment past the point where I could still see my keyboard/hands because of the "keyboard disappearing" issue.
  - 3y ago
qup 3y ago
When this is available in a smaller form-factor, I'll have one for certain. It would be nice if they could take input as well, to display inside a screen somewhere (HDMI or whatever). I feel pretty confident we're going to have this available as sunglasses before I'm dead, which is pretty cool.
dbish 3y ago
I recently had a kid and lost my office :), I've been struggling to have a set space for work when he's asleep, but would absolutely love it if I could just put on a headset. Is it workable for that? I used to try to code in the quest3 but the resolution felt like I might as well be coding on my phone. I'll go buy one today if this would be an office replacement for me.
- djsavvy 3y ago
  from experience — yes, absolutely. It's not as good as a dedicated, already-optimized work space, but it comes pretty darn close. I have a great workspace well-tailored for me with a massive desk, ultrawide monitor, nice speakers, etc., but I still pop into my vision pro and screen mirror my laptop to get work done. If I'm having trouble focusing, the environments and white noise generation are really helpful. I've also noticed that it really boosts my productivity when I would otherwise be disturbed by a cluttered environment.
  - dbish 3y ago
    Wow, alright, strong endorsement. I might have to pick one up afterall. Thanks!
    - joshstrange 3y ago
      Go get a demo at an Apple Store. They won't show you Mac Virtual Display and the clarity of the AVP/iPad apps is good, pictures/experiences are breathtaking. MVD is not that clear, full stop. Also, try to resize an app with text down to the size you would use for a window on your computer. You can't. I constantly found myself wishing to make apps smaller but you can't and so you get limited quickly on what you can fit in front of you/in your field of vision. I even wish there was a way to switch to the iPhone app instead then so I could see more. I wonder if part of that limitation is that the text won't be as legible if it's smaller. One day it will get there, today is not that day. That said, you should go try it at an Apple Store, it's free to do.
      - 3y ago
ctvo 3y ago
Completely different from my reality; the selective blurring when connected to a laptop hurts my eyes and forces me to refocus them constantly. The limited field of vision stops where I can place my windows and displays without moving my head. The resolution noticeably worse (as expected) than my 2 year old 5K monitor.
likebike 3y ago
Use a straw to drink the coffee. ;)
- dgunay 3y ago
  My imagination ran a bit wild and I thought of a sort of "respirator" one could wear for enhanced immersion, featuring artificial odors. Maybe even a small straw to sip your preferred beverage from, like one of those water pouches hikers carry.
aussieguy1234 3y ago
Not a bad desktop background you have there
helloericsf 3y ago
Intriguing idea! How long can you sustain coding with Vision Pro? BTW, you must have excellent eyesight and a strong neck. :D
helsinki 3y ago
What app are you using to write code? How do you get a terminal without using a MacBook?
- shmoogy 3y ago
  Blink or vs code server - same as on ipad
  - willemlaurentz 3y ago
    It's Blink, connected to a remote machine over mosh inside a tmux shell (and vim).
joshstrange 3y ago
I'm so glad that some people are able to use it in this way and I'm jealous. I found the code too blurry [0] and I disliked being limited to 1 blurry screen with 3 clear monitors available to me. I ended up returning mine but I can't wait till I can work inside one of those without feeling limited. It's easy to imagine a future where the AVP beats my monitors and I can't wait. [0] https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/04/apple-vision-pro-writing-code/ https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/04/apple-vision-pro-writing-...
munk-a 3y ago
This feels like one of those activities that's so drastically different that there may be serious health concerns about it. Wearing a VR headset to play a few hours of games a week still lets your eyes mostly exist in a natural light setting. When you're wearing a VR display the light is right up against your eyes with no possibility for them to look away to relax. When we're normally working we can glance out at a horizon (hopefully - sometimes you don't have a window) or at least let your eyes wander off to the ceiling and defocus. It seems like giving your eyes a chance to relax (i.e. having narrow glasses where part of your view field is out of focus) can be beneficial at delaying the onset of Myopia. The idea of wearing one of these for eight hours a day feels much worse than even staring at a phone in your hand when it comes to eye health.
- larrysalibra 3y ago
  I wonder what it will do to our skin after long time use. I get red goggle rings around my eyes. Is it going to crest more wrinkles? One improvement vs phones is there’s no more bending the neck down to look at something in your hands. Interesting times!
  - crooked-v 3y ago
    That's entirely a consequence of the made-for-marketing headstrap instead of the headset itself. Check out companies like BOBOVR that make more ergonomic headstraps (not for AVP yet, but they've hinted at working on it).
AceJohnny2 3y ago
This is my goal and hope, but I'll temper OP's points with how things stand today. Background: I got my AVP on Monday 5th (having gotten up before dawn to place my order when it first became available). I am a programmer with a multi-screen setup to maximize my usable workspace, which consists of editor, terminal, and browser windows. My hope is for the AVP to replace a set of fixed screens, and have in effect infinite screen space. The AVP has worse Angular Resolution than a monitor, at average 34 Pixels-Per-Degree (PPD) vs a monitor's 64 PPD (more details in iFixit's writeup [1]). This is an inevitable consequence of placing a screen so close to your eyes. The AVP's exceptional screen technology mitigates this (and for me completely eliminates the "screen door" effect that plagued earlier VR sets), but it can't beat Physics. So for one thing, you cannot have the legible text density of, say, 2 27" monitors an arm's length away. In other words, the equivalent amount of text will take more space in your vision on the AVP. This is understandable. But where the AVP really has a problem, but I really hope they improve, is window management. Someone quipped that, from an app/window management perspective, the AVP is like sticking an iPad on your face, and I agree. As someone who's used to moving and resizing windows around with Tiling window managers on Linux and SizeUp or Moom on macOS, the window management of the AVP is really awkward. Say you put your editor large front-and-center, but now want to switch to a terminal, or resize the editor to put a reference on the side? The hand control may feel magical, but you're going to be doing a lot of it to move and resize your windows. But these are software UX problems, and I'm gambling on Apple fixing them over time. [1] https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2-whats-the-display-resolution https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2...
- AceJohnny2 3y ago
  OPfftopic: the text preview bar following your wireless mac keyboard around is the standout AR feature for me. If that sounds unimpressive, I agree; I have yet to experience truly impressive AR on the AVP. But it's still early, so I'm hopeful.
- wilsonnb3 3y ago
  its been 14 years on the iPad and even longer on MacOS and neither of them have good window management, I really don't think Apple will come up with a good solution on the vision pro
robg 3y ago
I like the comparison: like a good pair of earphones for your eyes. That’s a nice succinct summary and gets to when and how the device operates best - when detaching from your surroundings helps you in some way. That marginal value every day isn’t for me but I can see how it could be for many, especially as the price drops over time.
zyklonix 3y ago
Any idea how the author was able to have multiple desktop screens? What app is he using for this? I thought it only allowed you to mirror one screen per Mac and from my experience it is quite laggy.
- jlund-molfese 3y ago
  Looks like iPad apps! You can tell by the icon floating at the top right of the windows, which appears for "compatible apps" aka iPad apps.
- willemlaurentz 3y ago
  I use the iPad Blink Shell app, it can have multiple windows and renders using the VisionOS UI, making it sharper than mirroring a Mac's display. It helps that I have optimised a great part of my workflow due to me liking tablets. Like others have said, AVP is like strapping an iPad on your head - I happen to like my iPad, too.
  - drcode 3y ago
    Does the "multiple window" support of Blink work seamlessly on the helmet?
  - zyklonix 3y ago
    That's great! It even supports VS Code. How did you manage to use the mouse? My AVP refuses to pair with a bluetooth mouse.
    - zyklonix 3y ago
      It only supports the Apple Magic Trackpad: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213998 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213998
- rkangel 3y ago
  Yes you can only mirror one screen from a Mac, but he's using the AVP as the computing device itself. So it's not multiple desktop screens it's multiple windows from locally running apps.
somishere 3y ago
> Yet, it is fake, as I am sitting on our top floor, a barely furnished room full of items belonging to a family house with two young kids Define dystopia.
- hombre_fatal 3y ago
  Meh, it's not like everyone has been working from the beach or lakeside up until now. I'd wager it's less dystopian than your current setup staring at the wall of your home or office, maybe with a window to a view of nothing in an office you're forced to drive to.
  - somishere 3y ago
    "I guess that depends on what your definition of the word is is" ;)
- garbagewoman 3y ago
  noun An imaginary place or state in which the condition of life is extremely bad, as from deprivation, oppression, or terror
  - somishere 3y ago
    Sure! Thank you. There's a few good definitions out there, some more absolute than others, but none of which quite capture the generally subjective nature of it. Personally tend to align more towards the "corrupted utopia", esp. where acceptance is controversial or blurred ... think the matrix or fahrenheit 451. But the scene I pictured when I read that line, rightly or wrongly, was straight out of pearl jam's do the evolution. It's evolution baby.
- tpmoney 3y ago
  I can't think of any version of dystopia that would be defined by "working your comfortable office job from your multi-story family home while experimenting with a multi thousand dollar piece of high tech equipment which can provide virtual experiences the likes of which was mere science fiction just two decades earlier purchased with your own money the month it was released to the public" Certainly no more dystopic than the very idea of remote work in general.
mrcwinn 3y ago
It's not a perfect product by any means. The question is, has Apple backed itself into any corners? Can the battery life or field of view be improved? The resolution? The weight? I think in all cases, Apple has a technical path forward. Despite its imperfections, wow is it fantastic. I'm writing now from a Mac virtual display (which, yes, is a bit blurry). But how could I return this thing? It's the most impressive product Apple's ever made and it's genuinely useful. It's not an expensive novelty by any means. What an achievement.
- RockRobotRock 3y ago
  The virtual display is impressive, for sure. But, I think you should consider a pair of AR glasses from xreal or rokid. They cost a fraction of the price, have less latency, and you don't need to worry about battery life. They're also much much more portable. I think using AVP primarily as an external display is a huge huge waste.
- deleted 3y ago
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- dangus 3y ago
  Funnily enough, your Mac laptop in the real world has better pixels per degree of vision. If you just take the headset off it’s more clear. The Vision Pro wants to be a VR headset that throws away the existing VR ecosystem. No VR controllers, no beat saber, no Oculus Link, no PC VR. At the same time, it wants to be a productivity machine that can’t compile its own code and has the same software limitations as iPadOS. Mobile airplane computer? It fits in a backpack worse than a regular laptop and gets 1/10 the battery life. You could buy an economy plus subscription from United Airlines for 7 years for the same price and just use your laptop on the plane. I agree that Apple has paths forward to fix all of this, but I disagree that they will go down those paths. I see Apple products like the iPad stagnating because Apple refuses to take them beyond a constrained vision. Apple will never let you install applications outside of their walled garden and they’ll never let you compile code on the Vision Pro. That’s fine for an entertainment device like a $500 Quest 3 but a $3,500 “spatial computer?”
diamondfist25 3y ago
Once pornhub releases its immersive exp, sales will go thru the roof
timetraveller26 3y ago
People spending 3.5K to code is peak capitalism. Yes, I am exaggerating a little bit, but frankly coding like this is kinda silly, you don't need this headset to fancy manipulate text presentation when the really important thing, the abstractions, are in your brain.
- dagmx 3y ago
  People have been spending high amounts of money to code for as long as computers have been a thing. Tons of people buy high spec laptops, or high spec desktops with high spec monitors and high spec keyboards just to code. Turns out people pay for an experience that suits them.
- jillesvangurp 3y ago
  I've spent that much on laptops before. I don't think it's excessive to spend that on a device that you use every day to earn a large income.
- willemlaurentz 3y ago
  Sure it is, you don't need it to do today's work. Yet, I find it very interesting to explore what tomorrow's work could look like given this approach to 'spatial computing'. Because tech will eventually become cheaper and better, perhaps reaching a level that is won't costs more than any other piece of gear.
bookstore-romeo 3y ago
I find the comparison to "headphones" for your eyes really interesting because it might provide a long-term view as to the Vision Pro's place on the computer market. Desktop speakers and Hi-Fi home stereo equipment are obviously still a thing today, and, in a few generation (and with the advent of more competition), the case of bigger desktops (and possibly laptops/tablets) might be analogous to today's headphone-loudspeaker duality.
- elicash 3y ago
  I don't know if it's intentional, but it's a reference to a Steve Jobs quote from 2005: "Headphones are a miraculous thing. You put on a pair of headphones and you get the same experience you get with a great pair of speakers, right? There’s no such thing as headphones for video. There’s not something I can carry with me, that I can put on and it gives me the same experience I get when I’m watching my 50-inch plasma display at home. Until someone invents that, you’re gonna have these opposing constraints." Walt Mossberg then mentions goggles, and Jobs says "but they're lousy!" (And Walt adds, "you never get a date if you wear them.")
  - vonjuice 3y ago
    Man, declare that headphones are the same experience as a great pair of speakers, he really was mainly a salesman
stevage 3y ago
I'll be interested to hear whether he's still using it like this in 3 months.
- willemlaurentz 3y ago
  I'm, too and will surely follow up on my post.
cpufry 3y ago
sigh i read that as "coming in vision pro"
ngokevin 3y ago
When reading about headset experiences, I'd de-weigh any insights that are within 3 months of the first headset purchase. The first few dozen sessions are novel, you get a kick (and social media views) about sharing how completely your life has changed to fit the headset. More often than not, it's collecting dust on the shelf within a few months. Sort of like an expensive blender you were so excited to get, you imagined making super fruit smoothies every morning. Let's see how AVP fares in this regard.
- deleted 3y ago
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- DiscourseFan 3y ago
  Yeah, I really like the Macbook and the iPhone, but basically everything else apple produces is pretty shit these days, even the airpods are just alright (I mean, the audio quality, design, and form factor are amazing, but they are super buggy and there are better wireless earbuds for the price). It would be a great shame if a secure, well designed, easy to use computer loaded with a custom-built, well supported unix-like distro gets trashed because the company that makes it is always trying to "innovate." I don't know if there's much left to innovate in the computer world, there is only so much you can do with ones and zeros. It would be better if they just focused on what works, reliable and secure consumer electronics, instead of trying to be what they were under Steve Jobs. Jobs is dead, he will never come back, and Apple will never be Apple under Jobs again. They should just try to be like the IBM of their space...just there, doing what they do best. An institution, a monolith, but not a "disruptor," as if there are any of those left.
  - LeafItAlone 3y ago
    > there are better wireless earbuds for the price Not that I’ve found. Maybe on individual features, but not as a whole product.
    - p5a0u9l 3y ago
      Same here. Bose ear buds noise canceling and bass are incredible. No comparison to the air pods. But god are they big and ugly.
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ngneer 3y ago
Interesting perspective, but not enough for me to be sold. I never understood how one can be at work and expect to be enjoying lovely scenery at the same time. Those are mutually exclusive for me, especially when coding or hacking. My mind can only be one place at a time. If only we could set aside the computer and truly be in nature... Oh, wait, we can...
bharrison 3y ago
Not for nothing, I'm a fan of my early gen xReal air, though mostly for an on-the-go coding use case. I link it up to my phone, wire up a 60% keyboard and fire up a VPN/ssh. The Galaxy DeX environment is pretty usable for other apps, and a BT mouse can alleviate the goofiness of the "phone as a touchpad" control scheme. I've used it with an HDMI/usb-c cable from my desktop and it works just as well, though attempting to switch between virtual and real displays through the glasses is headache-inducing at best. I'd say you accomplish 60% of the effect of the AVP, conservatively.
- anonzzzies 3y ago
  I don’t know how it compares to the avp but as an old guy, the xreal looks like normal sunglasses. Most people just come sit next to me and talk (even though there IS a massive keyboard in front of me) as though I am just having a coffee in the sun. I like it because it is light, small, very long (my phone) battery life. I am afraid I will like avp better though.
elliottkember 3y ago
It's summer here in New Zealand, and I have been using my AVP to code outside in the sunshine. There's no monitor glare and I'm not stuck inside. It's great.
- vundercind 3y ago
  Wow, this is the first thing anyone’s written about the AVP that’s made me go “maybe I would use this kind of device…” I didn’t even think about how nice they’d be to use outside on sunny days, compared with a laptop (or, coupled with one).
  - justanotherjoe 3y ago
    yes, but isn't part of what makes being outside nice is some measure of sunlight on your eyes?
    - vundercind 3y ago
      Eh, I’m usually in fairly dark sunglasses anyway. Trying to hold the worst of the cataracts off until my 70s if I can.
    - maximus-decimus 3y ago
      Personally, it's more the sun on my skin that's pleasant.
  - kromem 3y ago
    Of course the irony is that being "outside" is actually watching a live video recording of it from outer cameras on a screen in front of your face. I'm not necessarily criticizing that - more thinking that we're likely approaching a fidelity threshold where you no longer care it's a screen (I still don't think we're quite there yet and suspect this is just one gen before the device that will survive the few months in VR great filter).
    - bowsamic 3y ago
sircastor 3y ago
I rented a Quest 2 a couple of years ago to try out programming in it. I’d read a post someone made about his spending 8 hours a day in it. For me it wasn’t quite enough. The fresnel lenses make “God rays” at the edges and the text was readable, but not pleasant to read. I’m planning sometime to try the Quest 3. The Vision Pro seems like it might be the best option because it’s purpose built for that. Also I’m a Mac user and imagine the experience to be whole.
- buffington 3y ago
  I have the Quest 2 and the text isn't legible enough for me to write code for any length of time. I work with someone who has said "if the Quest 2 was a 0 on the usability scale, the Quest 3 is an easy 8 - it's that much better." I've not tried it myself, but I don't think my coworker is exaggerating.
  - kevinmershon 3y ago
    I have worked for hours in Immersed in both the quest 2 and 3. The 3 is considerably more comfortable on the head and eyes. I constantly had to take the quest 2 off for a breather
  - antman123 3y ago
    your coworker isn't "wrong" but that scale is off. If Quest 2 is a 0, Quest Pro is a 4.5, Quest 3 is a 6 and the AVP is an 8. (edited) I still could not program for 2 hours comfortably on Quest 3. I can do that on the AVP
    - buffington 3y ago
      What do you suppose makes it harder to work on the Quest 3 than the AVP?
  - KronisLV 3y ago
    > I have the Quest 2 and the text isn't legible enough for me to write code for any length of time. The comment above about "god rays" is correct in my experience, as well as the lenses being blurry towards the edges due to how they're made. However, I realized that I need prescription lenses for VR, because while I have -0.75 in one eye, that's still enough to throw the overall experience off a lot (and the glasses that I have are too wide for the headset). Aside from that, what helped me immensely is the Immersed app: https://immersed.com/ https://immersed.com/ where the actual environment is rendered on the Quest, whereas the actual monitors are streamed over from the PC which helps immensely with how legible things are. SteamVR and the Oculus Link apps are both trash in comparison, there's aliasing, shimmering, or everything ends up being way too blurry. I tried using the Horizon Workrooms app, but it wouldn't work because I have 4 monitors and it only supports up to 3. There's also the Virtual Desktop app which might be good, but I didn't feel like paying for it at the moment. So yeah, Quest 2 starts out at a disadvantage compared to other options (aside from cost, I guess), but there are factors that can absolutely ruin it, such as using the wrong method of displaying things. Also Quest 2 is just a little bit on the heavy side, or at least feels that way after prolonged usage, with the default face interface, even with a custom head strap.
killjoywashere 3y ago
I participated in a couple Vision Pro demos at Apple HQ prior to launch day. One with a security focus, one with a health applications focus. The security profile, btw, is super boring: on the network, it looks like an iPad. Health applications: pretty cool for education, maybe other things, eventually. What I think would be compelling, for me, is the ability to use it on travel. To be on a plane and not have to worry about breaking a laptop screen when the person in front of me tips their seat back, not have to worry about someone shoulder surfing me. In yet another boring hotel room? Let's escape! Now, the problem is that, in many meetings, a laptop is barely acceptable as it is (in some cases, not at all acceptable). So, I still have to bring a laptop. So, my backback is now ... heavier? I'm already carrying multiple devices required by various security policies. Is this juice worth the squeeze? I can't bring myself to spend my own money on this. And I helped develop an AR device. I'd be happy to use it if the company bought it. But you're in for almost $5k after applecare, accessories, etc.
- bongodongobob 3y ago
  Where do you work where laptops at meetings aren't acceptable? Not seeing laptops is an extremely reliable red flag for me.
  - whateveracct 3y ago
    why exactly?
    - Supermancho 3y ago
      If a meeting is simplistic enough not to need planning and action items, you don't need a meeting. Make a conference call. If action items are simplistic enough that you don't need to consider calendars for the future, don't need the ability to show the status of existing concerning items, and any reliable information is conveyed via paper, you've got multiple problems. Mostly you have a culture problem, to put it simply.
      - 3y ago
parallaxapps 3y ago
Love to see this! We’re the developers of Inspect Browser [0], the browser with dev tools you see in the screenshots. Our goal is to make tools to help web developers work on iPads, iPhones, and now Vision Pro- thrilled to see it in action! Glad to answer any questions. [0] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/inspect-browser/id1203594958 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/inspect-browser/id1203594958
d--b 3y ago
I just had an idea. I was somewhat intrigued by why people would recreate the same kind of setup in AR with monitor screens. Ok you get more of them, but at some point more screens is just distracting. What if instead this was the occasion for a true AR experience. Like instead of popping up a monitor, you can open a textbook. As in a physical text book sitting on your desk, each page would be covered in qr codes or whatever uniquely identifying that page. Then the vision pro could fill in the page with a computer generated UI: buttons, text inputs and so on. And then you could spread all these pages around your desk and actually touch them, and carry them around. Imagine your code being on a sheet of paper instead of in one window. Imagine your trello board being actual postit notes stuck on your wall that you can unstick and edit. Imagine your wall full of papers, each of them showing some monitoring aspect of your system. Like all your browser tabs are displayed on the wall. Jesus I am excited
- billconan 3y ago
  the problem is, virtual screens can float in the air. A physical piece of paper can't.
- ugh123 3y ago
  I wouldn't want to deal with losing papers, ripping them, etc. why not have the AR create them for you? Seems like you want some extra realism surrounding your screen space. So have a life-like book where individual pages (easy to turn hopefully) are different browser tabs.
  - d--b 3y ago
    Replacing a paper would be just like opening a new browser tab. A virtual book can’t give you the same level of interaction as a physical one. Virtual interaction are clunky at best.
- karim79 3y ago
  Sounds like something you can have or enjoy in real life, and without having an expensive 600-650g weight on your head. (I do like the idea of virtual postits, mind you).
yieldcrv 3y ago
Is the meta offering really so good, just poorly advertised?
karim79 3y ago
Let's face it, the AVP is absolutely necessary for any dev who is truly serious about creating quality apps for the AVP. Those apps might not take off just now, but in a generation or five, the pioneering app creators might be laughing at the rest of us. Or at least until Apple decides to take down their apps due to sudden ToC changes. Just think of the plethora of reasons AVP apps could be taken down for 'failing to comply with safety standards' and the like.
dcchambers 3y ago
I only did the 30 minute demo in the Apple store, but I found the brief minutes of looking at text in safari to be pretty bad with regards to eye strain. Watching videos was fine because I felt I could just let my eyes relax, but trying to focus on text was anything but fun. I have contacts and am not convinced that the fit/focus I had was correct, but it was not a good first impression from a "productivity device" perspective. Apple is going to have a problem with how finicky VR headsets are.
elif 3y ago
Unless all these returns make it super affordable on the secondhand market, it seems like waiting for meta quest 4 pro next year might be the play. For the vision pro price you can afford one for home and another for the office.
mrcwinn 3y ago
Another thing that fascinates me about the Vision Pro: its looks. It’s at once futuristic - 3D knits, curved glass encased by aluminum - and yet also reminds me of something out of the 80s. Actually, it looks to me like a Mac. Aspects like the solo band’s dial, maybe. Or maybe it’s something you’d see in Back to the Future Part 2. Post modern yet nostalgic. I can’t quite wrap my head around it, no pun intended.
- seydor 3y ago
  For people looking for an elegant device with excellent passthrough to wear on the street, i suggest this https://www.dior.com/en_gr/fashion/products/00X0056HOGOG_C111_TU-dior-and-poc-ski-goggles---regular-fit https://www.dior.com/en_gr/fashion/products/00X0056HOGOG_C11...
ETH_start 3y ago
As a first take: this is incredible, magical. Even if subtle problems make this iteration impractical for sustained use, it is clearly a bellwether for things to come.
baby 3y ago
I tried it and it hurt my face like hell in 10min. It’s uber heavy. I had a Quest 1 and would use it for hours without any issues.
paganel 3y ago
He has a little daughter around and he's staying with that concoction around his face, so that said kid won't be able to see her dad's eyes but instead she'll get to see that electronic thingie. Very bleak.
- willemlaurentz 3y ago
  Fair point, I am certainly not using Vision Pro all day while I am with my kid - but the point I tried to make is that the rooms can contain items (e.g. toys, etc) that I haven't placed there... the warning of Vision Pro gives for me bumping into stuff is nice.
8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
It sounds like it might be pretty hard to exceed 3.3K PPI and yet it's not nearly enough. Would it be possible to pull the headset a little further off the face and just counter balance it to get better PPD?
dclowd9901 3y ago
Is that Mirror Lake then?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tomcam 3y ago
I wonder if it might be a godsend for people who can’t work in open office plans
- densh 3y ago
  I sense some irony in spending extra time on commute only to put a headset that hides all the surroundings of the open office from you and immerses you in a virtual environment.
jdksjdoejd 3y ago
[flagged]
BossingAround 3y ago
Off topic, but when you click a photo in this blog, that's a proper nightmare. There's no way to get back to the article, and the back button exits the whole page. Talk about bad UX.
- willemlaurentz 3y ago
  Thanks for the feedback, I'll fix it!
evang7 3y ago
This is just not going to work. Whatever the experience may be, in this universe, it is not good for the eyes to be focused at a screen a few cm away for hours on end.
- ianlevesque 3y ago
  The focal distance is more like six feet on most headsets. That's further than my physical monitors are.
DerCommodore 3y ago
Not sure this my device, with such gigantic windows
yokoprime 3y ago
Coding with super heavy ski-goggles? No thanks… there’s a reason i take off my goggles when not skiing
machiaweliczny 3y ago
I thinking about using it for coding 2h at my balcony to get some sun exposure. When using macbook I am annoyed due to reflections. Does anyone know how pass through works in sunlight?
silisili 3y ago
> You can choose to let the real outer world in or filter it out, Yeah I do that by putting my monitor near a window, and using my special ability to move my ocular organs to decide what I get to see. It saves me 3k dollars and having to wear some awkward device on my head.
justinclift 3y ago
Hopefully Asahi Linux will run it on before too long. :)
fho 3y ago
One thing that immediately jumps out to me is that he had to increase font size a lot compared to what you'd use on a normal screen. I wager the guess that this is due to the "low" resolution that HMDs have. The last HMD I used was a HTC Vive Pro and there I could still see individual pixels. I have "high resolution eyes" (150-160% vision), but still I would assume that the resolution is still too low to render sharp text at a distance.
- kllrnohj 3y ago
  https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2-whats-the-display-resolution https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2... There's some math there. The ppi equivalent is rather low despite the rather high resolution and ridiculous density of the displays themselves, after blowing it up to 100 degrees of FOV it ends up being much lower "density" than anything else you're used to looking at
dzink 3y ago
What software do you use for development on the AVP? Do you connect it to your computer or use apps alone (terminal, ide, etc)?
gdubs 3y ago
I've been working a lot in Apple Vision Pro, using Xcode and also spatial visionOS windows for various things like messaging, browsing, etc. Personally, with my ZEISS inserts for my prescription, the text is incredibly sharp. I often will forget it's a virtual display in front of me, and not my actual monitor. This seems to vary for people, but since I didn't have my ZEISS prescription on day one, and I got to experience the before and after – I REALLY wonder how many people have worse eyesight than they realize, or are thinking that using the thing without their glasses is not making a difference. It absolutely makes a huge difference. In terms of comfort, it took a little while since I didn't go to the Apple Store, but it finally 'clicked' and I have a feel for how to wear it comfortably. Also, it's less forgiving of bad posture. So, you need to allow yourself time to experiment with how to wear it because it's worth it. It feels comfortable to me now – I spent hours in it yesterday.
WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
My freaking god. If the weather is good, I can take my gear + NReal Air places and not just into the dusty attic. True, in good weather it also means mosquitoes and gnats, but you can repel them. Real experiences for freakin’ .1x the price, and it works in Linux too.
whoopsie 3y ago
Don’t get it. So many reviewers have the tiniest of ide windows up, like on a 11” laptop. When I code in Vision Pro, I can set 5k resolution to the Mac link since my studio is hooked to a studio display. I’ll get over 100 readable lines, similar to a vertical 4k monitor.
kgbcia 3y ago
Seeing alot of online reviews that the AVP is too heavy. The front loaded weights but pressure on your cheeks and the straps put pressure on your temple. I like the idea of multiple monitors at high resolution, but not worth the pain on the face.
arsh4151 3y ago
[flagged]
dcchambers 3y ago
Until I can drop into a terminal with bash and full access to unix command line tools and an editor of my choice, the AVP just isn't useful for the type of work I do. Right now the only thing would be as a virtual display for my mac. But given the M2 chip inside the AVP there's no reason it can't do everything my mac can do (and more). Hopefully one day apple will come to their senses and let this thing be open for real development work, but I'm not holding my breath.
jgab 3y ago
Is anyone else using blink and vsCode for this? Seems like really good tool, but I am not sure how to turn off the smart quotes “”. Is this AVP that’s enabling, this or a vsCode/blink setting I need to resolve
rldjbpin 3y ago
using multiple virtual monitors and vim is exactly what i expected from this post, which it delivered well. having chatgpt integration in riced vim would've been icing on the cake.
evolve2k 3y ago
Frustratingly the author didn’t discuss get actual coding experience in any detail. How’s the resolution of the terminal and code editor. What was better/worse? What about weight, how long could he sit. Etc etc

I'd rather work from a real mountaintop on a crappy laptop. Actually, no. I'll work at work and leave it all behind on the mountain.

ngneer 3y ago
Exactly!
anonzzzies 3y ago
How about work and live on a mountain and forget about this idea of ‘at work’?
- swader999 3y ago
  It's nice to keep it separated. Working vacations never really go that well.

willemlaurentz 3y ago

At first I thought it would be weird, but after a few minutes it all felt very natural and a deep work focus was achieved without me really realising it. I tried to grasp some of the awe I experienced in this blog post.

shakow 3y ago
How is the resolution? I never tried a Vision Pro yet, but that was my main gripe with my Rift. Indeed, IME, the ‶real world″ size of the windows is nothing, it's their angular resolution that is a make or break.
- willemlaurentz 3y ago
  I love high dpi displays as I like text (and other details) to be crisp and clear. Vision Pro is approaching a quality that I feel is acceptable, somewhere between "flawless reality" and a decent screen. The virtual environments are crisper than the camera passthrough mixed environments. There is definitely room for improvement on screen quality, but in general I am impressed.
- larrysalibra 3y ago
  It ranges from okay to not that bad. It’s not as good as the “retina” screens in Apple’s other products. I can definitely see pixels on the device if I’m wearing contacts unlike what most of the early reviewers claimed. But it’s not so bad as to be unusable and you don’t really notice them in most contexts - the main place I notice pixels is using it as a screen for macOS. VisionOS apps are rendered very large by default so the resolution deficiencies aren’t as apparent. Overall it is very impressive but there’s also much room for improvement in resolution.
  - ribosometronome 3y ago
    For non-text content, I think it's pretty good, actually. Watching content in Disney+ or Max's theater modes is really satisfying despite those virtual screens being sub-4k.
  - bed99 3y ago
    I don't think it is possible to see the pixels, they are the size of a red blood cell. But maybe you can see antialiasing or noise from the cameras. Personally I can't see any pixelation. It's even better than reality. That being said passthrough cameras' resolution do suck but it's not what it's important and probably the easiest problem to solve.
    - hatsix 3y ago
      sure, they're small, but some of them are closer to your eye lense than your retina. The pixels per degree are lower than any Apple product in the past 10 years
  - euroderf 3y ago
    Now there is a topic. How does it work with contacts ? Does it obviate the need for the 149$ Zeiss add-ons ? Do you blink enough in the environment ?
    - robterrell 3y ago
      I have been using contacts and just got the zeiss lenses today. So far it's roughly equivalent. I think there is a touch more distortion (chromatic aberration along the edges) with the inserts. But my contacts are progressives and kinda sucked for this, single vision would probably be great.
- grumbel 3y ago
  The original Oculus Rift had 1080x1200, VisionPro has 3660x3200, field of view is similar. In virtual monitor terms that means a Rift can display a 640x480 monitor and the VisionPro a 1920x1080 one. Still quite far away from Retina, but should be pretty usable, especially since it allows making the virtual screens bigger than a real monitor can be.
  - newshorts 3y ago
    Nah it’s bigger than 1080… You can choose 4k resolution and get extra real estate
- joshstrange 3y ago
  It's better than anything else I've tried by a long shot, which admittedly is only the Quest 2, but still not good enough to work in all day. It wasn't the weight/comfort for me, just it was too blurry. I fully expect to be using one eventually as an external monitor replacement but it's got a little ways to go. Probably needs another generation or 2 of screen/camera improvements. It's _good_ but not worth keeping unless you already use mostly iPad apps for work.
jdriselvato 3y ago
You have a great humorist writing style. I enjoyed the read and it just makes me want one even more. I just went to an Apple Store to demo the Vision Pro and walked out feeling like I had a religious experience. I was overcame with emotion over that immersion demo, those baby rhinos completely blew my mind. I'm booking another appointment soon to get another taste. I really hope the price becomes manageable for consumers like me; I love the tech and want the future but can't afford it.
- iknowstuff 3y ago
  Have you tried the Quest 3?

larrysalibra 3y ago

“Active noise cancellation for your eyes” is a great way to put. I also have found myself using the mount hood environment set to daytime as the setting for macOS + visionOS multi-window set up. I took it off yesterday before some friends came over for dinner and I was kind of shocked that it had gotten dark outside because my mind felt like it was still day time since the sun was out in mount hood. I had actually been sitting on my office in darkness for a least an hour.

xnx 3y ago
Is there a setting to allow the environment to change lighting conditions on a 24 hour schedule?
- LeoPanthera 3y ago
  Yes, in fact that's the default, it tracks sunrise and sunset based on your location.
  - larrysalibra 3y ago
    Yeah I changed the default to day which in hindsight wasn’t a great idea especially since I’m trying to recover from North America -> Asia jet lag.
enos_feedler 3y ago
Okay but as I sit here in my own private space in a city, one of these I need and one of these I don't.

frozenport 3y ago

Had the opposite experience. My 6k monitor kicked the butt of the spatial computing screen. My Macbook was easier to use. I could use my phone laying on the side. There were ultimately a lot better, less blurry display options.

mangosteenjuice 3y ago
Which 6k monitor do you have? I'm looking to get one.
- frozenport 3y ago
  Dell UltraSharp 32 6K Monitor - U3224KB is pretty good. The same as the `Pro Display XDR` but with more ports, and half the cost.
  - jwells89 3y ago
    Have the kinks with the U3224KB been worked out? I had one for a while but ended up returning it and replacing it with a Studio Display due to a bunch of papercuts (blog post with details in my profile, if interested) mostly concerning its functionality with macOS (though there were a couple of issues with the monitor itself too, mainly the AG coating).
    - frozenport 3y ago
      Well I’ve been using it with Mac os
  - radicality 3y ago
    I don’t think I would call it “the same” as the Pro Display XDR, pretty sure it’s not the same panel? I have the XDR and got it as I live in an apartment which gets a ton of natural sunlight and the XDR goes to 1000 nits sustained brightness (1600 peak for hdr). The specs of the Dell panel indicate max brightness of 450 nits, so not at all comparable.
joshstrange 3y ago

gumby 3y ago

I am thinking of upgrading my work station and I suppose this is cheaper than three 5K TB monitors. But is it really as good?

jgalentine007 3y ago
LG 24" 4k monitors are like $350 - might be worth a try. I have two with my M3 Pro and they look fantastic - sharp text, good color and viewing angles.
- wilsonnb3 3y ago
  I have a pair of those, they are great. Wish they were a bit brighter but can't complain for the price.
djsavvy 3y ago
If that's the alternative you're considering, get the monitors. If you're like me and have been dying to be a bit less tethered to one location for a while, or you want to get a lot out of a little space, this device has finally crossed the threshold of usability (and being a joy to use). But if your baseline is three 5K monitors in one spot, you're gonna be disappointed.
joshstrange 3y ago
It doesn't beat 3 2K monitors let alone 5K. I know, I have 3 2Ks and the Apple Vision Pro didn't come close to competing. It will one day and I can't wait but I returned mine for now.
zone411 3y ago
Get a 43'' center monitor with two LG DualUP 16:18 ratio monitors on the sides. Cheaper and much much better than Vision Pro. You will need a large desk though.
- metaphor 3y ago
  > Get a 43'' center monitor with two LG DualUP 16:18 ratio monitors on the sides. Sounds nice for the office, but find myself conflicted with the notional operating value prop of continuously juicing north of 200W less graphics compute (?!) just putting idle pixels on screen on a home workstation that seldom gets shutdown. Curious if you've realized meaningful productivity gains since switching to that setup, and what graphics card(s) are you using to drive them?

jm20 3y ago

I tried to use the Vision Pro for work, and I'm not sure if it was just my eyes or what, but looking at code inside of that thing was just...exhausting. When I took it off, I looked at my regular monitors with a newfound love. I'd love for this thing to reach it's full potential as this 'work from a mountaintop, but really your garage' device, but I feel like until the resolution gets to the same as existing monitors (no small task, I know) it's just...not as good for the vast majority of use cases.

judge2020 3y ago
Were you using macos virtual display? Using the passthrough to look at monitors is passable but not suitable for even a few minutes of use.
- joshstrange 3y ago
  Not you you responded to but I tried both. I mean I never seriously thought the passthrough would be good enough, and it wasn't, but it was just barely legible and useful when I was trying to pair my AVP to my MBP. But I really tried to like MVD and I just couldn't do it. It wasn't clear enough and felt like an added "tax" on my mind, also I felt very limited compared to when using my external monitors.
- lucb1e 3y ago
  > not suitable for even a few minutes of use Because of lag, or why? Many people work on remote desktop all day long, and I spend my fair share of time in SSH sessions as well. It's not like it improves the experience compared to working locally, but for me it works fine so long as you're within a few hundred kilometers without much jitter. On the VR, the screen should move as you move your head because that position isn't what's being passed through, so that can't be the difference either. I don't understand (without having a device myself) how/whether this is worse than normal video streaming over LAN?
  - judge2020 3y ago
    You misunderstood, the video passthrough of your surroundings is not good enough. Using the macOS virtual display is fine, there is some noticeable streaming latency, maybe 30ms (that would be solved if it could just take DP over USB-C or Thunderbolt in) but it's suitable for long term use.

LeoPanthera 3y ago

My biggest problem is that it is sometimes difficult to read the keys on my keyboard. I really wish that it could do object recognition on my keyboard and re-render the keycaps. This would be especially useful in "environments", which make the keyboard disappear entirely.

notso411 3y ago
That is a really good idea
- modeless 3y ago
  Such a great idea that Meta implemented it for Quest already. https://www.meta.com/help/quest/articles/headsets-and-accessories/meta-quest-accessories/tracked-keyboards-meta-quest/ https://www.meta.com/help/quest/articles/headsets-and-access...
Zelphyr 3y ago
This. I'm a touch-typist but I still find myself fumbling around trying to find where to put my hands when I first start typing while in an environment. I don't do that when I can see my keyboard in my peripheral vision though, so I think the keyboard object recognition would help.
adr1an 3y ago
I thought oculus already had that!
joshstrange 3y ago
I was surprised Apple didn't have this. My Meta Quest 2 had a super crappy version I tried for all of 2 minutes. The AVP passthrough and rendering content behind your hand (cut out?) both leave some to be desired. The little indicator that floats over your keyboard is cool, touch bar coming back from the grave. But I felt like I couldn't dial in the environment past the point where I could still see my keyboard/hands because of the "keyboard disappearing" issue.
- 3y ago

qup 3y ago

When this is available in a smaller form-factor, I'll have one for certain. It would be nice if they could take input as well, to display inside a screen somewhere (HDMI or whatever). I feel pretty confident we're going to have this available as sunglasses before I'm dead, which is pretty cool.

dbish 3y ago

I recently had a kid and lost my office :), I've been struggling to have a set space for work when he's asleep, but would absolutely love it if I could just put on a headset. Is it workable for that? I used to try to code in the quest3 but the resolution felt like I might as well be coding on my phone. I'll go buy one today if this would be an office replacement for me.

djsavvy 3y ago
from experience — yes, absolutely. It's not as good as a dedicated, already-optimized work space, but it comes pretty darn close. I have a great workspace well-tailored for me with a massive desk, ultrawide monitor, nice speakers, etc., but I still pop into my vision pro and screen mirror my laptop to get work done. If I'm having trouble focusing, the environments and white noise generation are really helpful. I've also noticed that it really boosts my productivity when I would otherwise be disturbed by a cluttered environment.
- dbish 3y ago
  Wow, alright, strong endorsement. I might have to pick one up afterall. Thanks!
  - joshstrange 3y ago
    Go get a demo at an Apple Store. They won't show you Mac Virtual Display and the clarity of the AVP/iPad apps is good, pictures/experiences are breathtaking. MVD is not that clear, full stop. Also, try to resize an app with text down to the size you would use for a window on your computer. You can't. I constantly found myself wishing to make apps smaller but you can't and so you get limited quickly on what you can fit in front of you/in your field of vision. I even wish there was a way to switch to the iPhone app instead then so I could see more. I wonder if part of that limitation is that the text won't be as legible if it's smaller. One day it will get there, today is not that day. That said, you should go try it at an Apple Store, it's free to do.
    - 3y ago

ctvo 3y ago

Completely different from my reality; the selective blurring when connected to a laptop hurts my eyes and forces me to refocus them constantly. The limited field of vision stops where I can place my windows and displays without moving my head. The resolution noticeably worse (as expected) than my 2 year old 5K monitor.

likebike 3y ago

Use a straw to drink the coffee. ;)

dgunay 3y ago
My imagination ran a bit wild and I thought of a sort of "respirator" one could wear for enhanced immersion, featuring artificial odors. Maybe even a small straw to sip your preferred beverage from, like one of those water pouches hikers carry.

aussieguy1234 3y ago

Not a bad desktop background you have there

helloericsf 3y ago

Intriguing idea! How long can you sustain coding with Vision Pro? BTW, you must have excellent eyesight and a strong neck. :D

helsinki 3y ago

What app are you using to write code? How do you get a terminal without using a MacBook?

shmoogy 3y ago
Blink or vs code server - same as on ipad
- willemlaurentz 3y ago
  It's Blink, connected to a remote machine over mosh inside a tmux shell (and vim).

joshstrange 3y ago

I'm so glad that some people are able to use it in this way and I'm jealous. I found the code too blurry [0] and I disliked being limited to 1 blurry screen with 3 clear monitors available to me. I ended up returning mine but I can't wait till I can work inside one of those without feeling limited. It's easy to imagine a future where the AVP beats my monitors and I can't wait. [0] https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/04/apple-vision-pro-writing-code/ https://joshstrange.com/2024/02/04/apple-vision-pro-writing-...

munk-a 3y ago

This feels like one of those activities that's so drastically different that there may be serious health concerns about it. Wearing a VR headset to play a few hours of games a week still lets your eyes mostly exist in a natural light setting. When you're wearing a VR display the light is right up against your eyes with no possibility for them to look away to relax. When we're normally working we can glance out at a horizon (hopefully - sometimes you don't have a window) or at least let your eyes wander off to the ceiling and defocus. It seems like giving your eyes a chance to relax (i.e. having narrow glasses where part of your view field is out of focus) can be beneficial at delaying the onset of Myopia. The idea of wearing one of these for eight hours a day feels much worse than even staring at a phone in your hand when it comes to eye health.

larrysalibra 3y ago
I wonder what it will do to our skin after long time use. I get red goggle rings around my eyes. Is it going to crest more wrinkles? One improvement vs phones is there’s no more bending the neck down to look at something in your hands. Interesting times!
- crooked-v 3y ago
  That's entirely a consequence of the made-for-marketing headstrap instead of the headset itself. Check out companies like BOBOVR that make more ergonomic headstraps (not for AVP yet, but they've hinted at working on it).

AceJohnny2 3y ago

This is my goal and hope, but I'll temper OP's points with how things stand today. Background: I got my AVP on Monday 5th (having gotten up before dawn to place my order when it first became available). I am a programmer with a multi-screen setup to maximize my usable workspace, which consists of editor, terminal, and browser windows. My hope is for the AVP to replace a set of fixed screens, and have in effect infinite screen space. The AVP has worse Angular Resolution than a monitor, at average 34 Pixels-Per-Degree (PPD) vs a monitor's 64 PPD (more details in iFixit's writeup [1]). This is an inevitable consequence of placing a screen so close to your eyes. The AVP's exceptional screen technology mitigates this (and for me completely eliminates the "screen door" effect that plagued earlier VR sets), but it can't beat Physics. So for one thing, you cannot have the legible text density of, say, 2 27" monitors an arm's length away. In other words, the equivalent amount of text will take more space in your vision on the AVP. This is understandable. But where the AVP really has a problem, but I really hope they improve, is window management. Someone quipped that, from an app/window management perspective, the AVP is like sticking an iPad on your face, and I agree. As someone who's used to moving and resizing windows around with Tiling window managers on Linux and SizeUp or Moom on macOS, the window management of the AVP is really awkward. Say you put your editor large front-and-center, but now want to switch to a terminal, or resize the editor to put a reference on the side? The hand control may feel magical, but you're going to be doing a lot of it to move and resize your windows. But these are software UX problems, and I'm gambling on Apple fixing them over time. [1] https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2-whats-the-display-resolution https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2...

AceJohnny2 3y ago
OPfftopic: the text preview bar following your wireless mac keyboard around is the standout AR feature for me. If that sounds unimpressive, I agree; I have yet to experience truly impressive AR on the AVP. But it's still early, so I'm hopeful.
wilsonnb3 3y ago
its been 14 years on the iPad and even longer on MacOS and neither of them have good window management, I really don't think Apple will come up with a good solution on the vision pro

robg 3y ago

I like the comparison: like a good pair of earphones for your eyes. That’s a nice succinct summary and gets to when and how the device operates best - when detaching from your surroundings helps you in some way. That marginal value every day isn’t for me but I can see how it could be for many, especially as the price drops over time.

zyklonix 3y ago

Any idea how the author was able to have multiple desktop screens? What app is he using for this? I thought it only allowed you to mirror one screen per Mac and from my experience it is quite laggy.

jlund-molfese 3y ago
Looks like iPad apps! You can tell by the icon floating at the top right of the windows, which appears for "compatible apps" aka iPad apps.
willemlaurentz 3y ago
I use the iPad Blink Shell app, it can have multiple windows and renders using the VisionOS UI, making it sharper than mirroring a Mac's display. It helps that I have optimised a great part of my workflow due to me liking tablets. Like others have said, AVP is like strapping an iPad on your head - I happen to like my iPad, too.
- drcode 3y ago
  Does the "multiple window" support of Blink work seamlessly on the helmet?
- zyklonix 3y ago
  That's great! It even supports VS Code. How did you manage to use the mouse? My AVP refuses to pair with a bluetooth mouse.
  - zyklonix 3y ago
    It only supports the Apple Magic Trackpad: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213998 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213998
rkangel 3y ago
Yes you can only mirror one screen from a Mac, but he's using the AVP as the computing device itself. So it's not multiple desktop screens it's multiple windows from locally running apps.

somishere 3y ago

> Yet, it is fake, as I am sitting on our top floor, a barely furnished room full of items belonging to a family house with two young kids Define dystopia.

hombre_fatal 3y ago
Meh, it's not like everyone has been working from the beach or lakeside up until now. I'd wager it's less dystopian than your current setup staring at the wall of your home or office, maybe with a window to a view of nothing in an office you're forced to drive to.
- somishere 3y ago
  "I guess that depends on what your definition of the word is is" ;)
garbagewoman 3y ago
noun An imaginary place or state in which the condition of life is extremely bad, as from deprivation, oppression, or terror
- somishere 3y ago
  Sure! Thank you. There's a few good definitions out there, some more absolute than others, but none of which quite capture the generally subjective nature of it. Personally tend to align more towards the "corrupted utopia", esp. where acceptance is controversial or blurred ... think the matrix or fahrenheit 451. But the scene I pictured when I read that line, rightly or wrongly, was straight out of pearl jam's do the evolution. It's evolution baby.
tpmoney 3y ago
I can't think of any version of dystopia that would be defined by "working your comfortable office job from your multi-story family home while experimenting with a multi thousand dollar piece of high tech equipment which can provide virtual experiences the likes of which was mere science fiction just two decades earlier purchased with your own money the month it was released to the public" Certainly no more dystopic than the very idea of remote work in general.

mrcwinn 3y ago

It's not a perfect product by any means. The question is, has Apple backed itself into any corners? Can the battery life or field of view be improved? The resolution? The weight? I think in all cases, Apple has a technical path forward. Despite its imperfections, wow is it fantastic. I'm writing now from a Mac virtual display (which, yes, is a bit blurry). But how could I return this thing? It's the most impressive product Apple's ever made and it's genuinely useful. It's not an expensive novelty by any means. What an achievement.

RockRobotRock 3y ago
The virtual display is impressive, for sure. But, I think you should consider a pair of AR glasses from xreal or rokid. They cost a fraction of the price, have less latency, and you don't need to worry about battery life. They're also much much more portable. I think using AVP primarily as an external display is a huge huge waste.
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dangus 3y ago
Funnily enough, your Mac laptop in the real world has better pixels per degree of vision. If you just take the headset off it’s more clear. The Vision Pro wants to be a VR headset that throws away the existing VR ecosystem. No VR controllers, no beat saber, no Oculus Link, no PC VR. At the same time, it wants to be a productivity machine that can’t compile its own code and has the same software limitations as iPadOS. Mobile airplane computer? It fits in a backpack worse than a regular laptop and gets 1/10 the battery life. You could buy an economy plus subscription from United Airlines for 7 years for the same price and just use your laptop on the plane. I agree that Apple has paths forward to fix all of this, but I disagree that they will go down those paths. I see Apple products like the iPad stagnating because Apple refuses to take them beyond a constrained vision. Apple will never let you install applications outside of their walled garden and they’ll never let you compile code on the Vision Pro. That’s fine for an entertainment device like a $500 Quest 3 but a $3,500 “spatial computer?”

diamondfist25 3y ago

Once pornhub releases its immersive exp, sales will go thru the roof

timetraveller26 3y ago

People spending 3.5K to code is peak capitalism. Yes, I am exaggerating a little bit, but frankly coding like this is kinda silly, you don't need this headset to fancy manipulate text presentation when the really important thing, the abstractions, are in your brain.

dagmx 3y ago
People have been spending high amounts of money to code for as long as computers have been a thing. Tons of people buy high spec laptops, or high spec desktops with high spec monitors and high spec keyboards just to code. Turns out people pay for an experience that suits them.
jillesvangurp 3y ago
I've spent that much on laptops before. I don't think it's excessive to spend that on a device that you use every day to earn a large income.
willemlaurentz 3y ago
Sure it is, you don't need it to do today's work. Yet, I find it very interesting to explore what tomorrow's work could look like given this approach to 'spatial computing'. Because tech will eventually become cheaper and better, perhaps reaching a level that is won't costs more than any other piece of gear.

bookstore-romeo 3y ago

I find the comparison to "headphones" for your eyes really interesting because it might provide a long-term view as to the Vision Pro's place on the computer market. Desktop speakers and Hi-Fi home stereo equipment are obviously still a thing today, and, in a few generation (and with the advent of more competition), the case of bigger desktops (and possibly laptops/tablets) might be analogous to today's headphone-loudspeaker duality.

elicash 3y ago
I don't know if it's intentional, but it's a reference to a Steve Jobs quote from 2005: "Headphones are a miraculous thing. You put on a pair of headphones and you get the same experience you get with a great pair of speakers, right? There’s no such thing as headphones for video. There’s not something I can carry with me, that I can put on and it gives me the same experience I get when I’m watching my 50-inch plasma display at home. Until someone invents that, you’re gonna have these opposing constraints." Walt Mossberg then mentions goggles, and Jobs says "but they're lousy!" (And Walt adds, "you never get a date if you wear them.")
- vonjuice 3y ago
  Man, declare that headphones are the same experience as a great pair of speakers, he really was mainly a salesman

stevage 3y ago

I'll be interested to hear whether he's still using it like this in 3 months.

willemlaurentz 3y ago
I'm, too and will surely follow up on my post.

cpufry 3y ago

sigh i read that as "coming in vision pro"

ngokevin 3y ago

When reading about headset experiences, I'd de-weigh any insights that are within 3 months of the first headset purchase. The first few dozen sessions are novel, you get a kick (and social media views) about sharing how completely your life has changed to fit the headset. More often than not, it's collecting dust on the shelf within a few months. Sort of like an expensive blender you were so excited to get, you imagined making super fruit smoothies every morning. Let's see how AVP fares in this regard.

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DiscourseFan 3y ago
Yeah, I really like the Macbook and the iPhone, but basically everything else apple produces is pretty shit these days, even the airpods are just alright (I mean, the audio quality, design, and form factor are amazing, but they are super buggy and there are better wireless earbuds for the price). It would be a great shame if a secure, well designed, easy to use computer loaded with a custom-built, well supported unix-like distro gets trashed because the company that makes it is always trying to "innovate." I don't know if there's much left to innovate in the computer world, there is only so much you can do with ones and zeros. It would be better if they just focused on what works, reliable and secure consumer electronics, instead of trying to be what they were under Steve Jobs. Jobs is dead, he will never come back, and Apple will never be Apple under Jobs again. They should just try to be like the IBM of their space...just there, doing what they do best. An institution, a monolith, but not a "disruptor," as if there are any of those left.
- LeafItAlone 3y ago
  > there are better wireless earbuds for the price Not that I’ve found. Maybe on individual features, but not as a whole product.
  - p5a0u9l 3y ago
    Same here. Bose ear buds noise canceling and bass are incredible. No comparison to the air pods. But god are they big and ugly.

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ngneer 3y ago

Interesting perspective, but not enough for me to be sold. I never understood how one can be at work and expect to be enjoying lovely scenery at the same time. Those are mutually exclusive for me, especially when coding or hacking. My mind can only be one place at a time. If only we could set aside the computer and truly be in nature... Oh, wait, we can...

bharrison 3y ago

Not for nothing, I'm a fan of my early gen xReal air, though mostly for an on-the-go coding use case. I link it up to my phone, wire up a 60% keyboard and fire up a VPN/ssh. The Galaxy DeX environment is pretty usable for other apps, and a BT mouse can alleviate the goofiness of the "phone as a touchpad" control scheme. I've used it with an HDMI/usb-c cable from my desktop and it works just as well, though attempting to switch between virtual and real displays through the glasses is headache-inducing at best. I'd say you accomplish 60% of the effect of the AVP, conservatively.

anonzzzies 3y ago
I don’t know how it compares to the avp but as an old guy, the xreal looks like normal sunglasses. Most people just come sit next to me and talk (even though there IS a massive keyboard in front of me) as though I am just having a coffee in the sun. I like it because it is light, small, very long (my phone) battery life. I am afraid I will like avp better though.

elliottkember 3y ago

It's summer here in New Zealand, and I have been using my AVP to code outside in the sunshine. There's no monitor glare and I'm not stuck inside. It's great.

vundercind 3y ago
Wow, this is the first thing anyone’s written about the AVP that’s made me go “maybe I would use this kind of device…” I didn’t even think about how nice they’d be to use outside on sunny days, compared with a laptop (or, coupled with one).
- justanotherjoe 3y ago
  yes, but isn't part of what makes being outside nice is some measure of sunlight on your eyes?
  - vundercind 3y ago
    Eh, I’m usually in fairly dark sunglasses anyway. Trying to hold the worst of the cataracts off until my 70s if I can.
  - maximus-decimus 3y ago
    Personally, it's more the sun on my skin that's pleasant.
- kromem 3y ago
  Of course the irony is that being "outside" is actually watching a live video recording of it from outer cameras on a screen in front of your face. I'm not necessarily criticizing that - more thinking that we're likely approaching a fidelity threshold where you no longer care it's a screen (I still don't think we're quite there yet and suspect this is just one gen before the device that will survive the few months in VR great filter).
  - bowsamic 3y ago

sircastor 3y ago

I rented a Quest 2 a couple of years ago to try out programming in it. I’d read a post someone made about his spending 8 hours a day in it. For me it wasn’t quite enough. The fresnel lenses make “God rays” at the edges and the text was readable, but not pleasant to read. I’m planning sometime to try the Quest 3. The Vision Pro seems like it might be the best option because it’s purpose built for that. Also I’m a Mac user and imagine the experience to be whole.

buffington 3y ago
I have the Quest 2 and the text isn't legible enough for me to write code for any length of time. I work with someone who has said "if the Quest 2 was a 0 on the usability scale, the Quest 3 is an easy 8 - it's that much better." I've not tried it myself, but I don't think my coworker is exaggerating.
- kevinmershon 3y ago
  I have worked for hours in Immersed in both the quest 2 and 3. The 3 is considerably more comfortable on the head and eyes. I constantly had to take the quest 2 off for a breather
- antman123 3y ago
  your coworker isn't "wrong" but that scale is off. If Quest 2 is a 0, Quest Pro is a 4.5, Quest 3 is a 6 and the AVP is an 8. (edited) I still could not program for 2 hours comfortably on Quest 3. I can do that on the AVP
  - buffington 3y ago
    What do you suppose makes it harder to work on the Quest 3 than the AVP?
- KronisLV 3y ago
  > I have the Quest 2 and the text isn't legible enough for me to write code for any length of time. The comment above about "god rays" is correct in my experience, as well as the lenses being blurry towards the edges due to how they're made. However, I realized that I need prescription lenses for VR, because while I have -0.75 in one eye, that's still enough to throw the overall experience off a lot (and the glasses that I have are too wide for the headset). Aside from that, what helped me immensely is the Immersed app: https://immersed.com/ https://immersed.com/ where the actual environment is rendered on the Quest, whereas the actual monitors are streamed over from the PC which helps immensely with how legible things are. SteamVR and the Oculus Link apps are both trash in comparison, there's aliasing, shimmering, or everything ends up being way too blurry. I tried using the Horizon Workrooms app, but it wouldn't work because I have 4 monitors and it only supports up to 3. There's also the Virtual Desktop app which might be good, but I didn't feel like paying for it at the moment. So yeah, Quest 2 starts out at a disadvantage compared to other options (aside from cost, I guess), but there are factors that can absolutely ruin it, such as using the wrong method of displaying things. Also Quest 2 is just a little bit on the heavy side, or at least feels that way after prolonged usage, with the default face interface, even with a custom head strap.

killjoywashere 3y ago

I participated in a couple Vision Pro demos at Apple HQ prior to launch day. One with a security focus, one with a health applications focus. The security profile, btw, is super boring: on the network, it looks like an iPad. Health applications: pretty cool for education, maybe other things, eventually. What I think would be compelling, for me, is the ability to use it on travel. To be on a plane and not have to worry about breaking a laptop screen when the person in front of me tips their seat back, not have to worry about someone shoulder surfing me. In yet another boring hotel room? Let's escape! Now, the problem is that, in many meetings, a laptop is barely acceptable as it is (in some cases, not at all acceptable). So, I still have to bring a laptop. So, my backback is now ... heavier? I'm already carrying multiple devices required by various security policies. Is this juice worth the squeeze? I can't bring myself to spend my own money on this. And I helped develop an AR device. I'd be happy to use it if the company bought it. But you're in for almost $5k after applecare, accessories, etc.

bongodongobob 3y ago
Where do you work where laptops at meetings aren't acceptable? Not seeing laptops is an extremely reliable red flag for me.
- whateveracct 3y ago
  why exactly?
  - Supermancho 3y ago
    If a meeting is simplistic enough not to need planning and action items, you don't need a meeting. Make a conference call. If action items are simplistic enough that you don't need to consider calendars for the future, don't need the ability to show the status of existing concerning items, and any reliable information is conveyed via paper, you've got multiple problems. Mostly you have a culture problem, to put it simply.
    - 3y ago

parallaxapps 3y ago

Love to see this! We’re the developers of Inspect Browser [0], the browser with dev tools you see in the screenshots. Our goal is to make tools to help web developers work on iPads, iPhones, and now Vision Pro- thrilled to see it in action! Glad to answer any questions. [0] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/inspect-browser/id1203594958 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/inspect-browser/id1203594958

d--b 3y ago

I just had an idea. I was somewhat intrigued by why people would recreate the same kind of setup in AR with monitor screens. Ok you get more of them, but at some point more screens is just distracting. What if instead this was the occasion for a true AR experience. Like instead of popping up a monitor, you can open a textbook. As in a physical text book sitting on your desk, each page would be covered in qr codes or whatever uniquely identifying that page. Then the vision pro could fill in the page with a computer generated UI: buttons, text inputs and so on. And then you could spread all these pages around your desk and actually touch them, and carry them around. Imagine your code being on a sheet of paper instead of in one window. Imagine your trello board being actual postit notes stuck on your wall that you can unstick and edit. Imagine your wall full of papers, each of them showing some monitoring aspect of your system. Like all your browser tabs are displayed on the wall. Jesus I am excited

billconan 3y ago
the problem is, virtual screens can float in the air. A physical piece of paper can't.
ugh123 3y ago
I wouldn't want to deal with losing papers, ripping them, etc. why not have the AR create them for you? Seems like you want some extra realism surrounding your screen space. So have a life-like book where individual pages (easy to turn hopefully) are different browser tabs.
- d--b 3y ago
  Replacing a paper would be just like opening a new browser tab. A virtual book can’t give you the same level of interaction as a physical one. Virtual interaction are clunky at best.
karim79 3y ago
Sounds like something you can have or enjoy in real life, and without having an expensive 600-650g weight on your head. (I do like the idea of virtual postits, mind you).

yieldcrv 3y ago

Is the meta offering really so good, just poorly advertised?

karim79 3y ago

Let's face it, the AVP is absolutely necessary for any dev who is truly serious about creating quality apps for the AVP. Those apps might not take off just now, but in a generation or five, the pioneering app creators might be laughing at the rest of us. Or at least until Apple decides to take down their apps due to sudden ToC changes. Just think of the plethora of reasons AVP apps could be taken down for 'failing to comply with safety standards' and the like.

dcchambers 3y ago

I only did the 30 minute demo in the Apple store, but I found the brief minutes of looking at text in safari to be pretty bad with regards to eye strain. Watching videos was fine because I felt I could just let my eyes relax, but trying to focus on text was anything but fun. I have contacts and am not convinced that the fit/focus I had was correct, but it was not a good first impression from a "productivity device" perspective. Apple is going to have a problem with how finicky VR headsets are.

elif 3y ago

Unless all these returns make it super affordable on the secondhand market, it seems like waiting for meta quest 4 pro next year might be the play. For the vision pro price you can afford one for home and another for the office.

mrcwinn 3y ago

Another thing that fascinates me about the Vision Pro: its looks. It’s at once futuristic - 3D knits, curved glass encased by aluminum - and yet also reminds me of something out of the 80s. Actually, it looks to me like a Mac. Aspects like the solo band’s dial, maybe. Or maybe it’s something you’d see in Back to the Future Part 2. Post modern yet nostalgic. I can’t quite wrap my head around it, no pun intended.

seydor 3y ago
For people looking for an elegant device with excellent passthrough to wear on the street, i suggest this https://www.dior.com/en_gr/fashion/products/00X0056HOGOG_C111_TU-dior-and-poc-ski-goggles---regular-fit https://www.dior.com/en_gr/fashion/products/00X0056HOGOG_C11...

ETH_start 3y ago

As a first take: this is incredible, magical. Even if subtle problems make this iteration impractical for sustained use, it is clearly a bellwether for things to come.

baby 3y ago

I tried it and it hurt my face like hell in 10min. It’s uber heavy. I had a Quest 1 and would use it for hours without any issues.

paganel 3y ago

He has a little daughter around and he's staying with that concoction around his face, so that said kid won't be able to see her dad's eyes but instead she'll get to see that electronic thingie. Very bleak.

willemlaurentz 3y ago
Fair point, I am certainly not using Vision Pro all day while I am with my kid - but the point I tried to make is that the rooms can contain items (e.g. toys, etc) that I haven't placed there... the warning of Vision Pro gives for me bumping into stuff is nice.

8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago

It sounds like it might be pretty hard to exceed 3.3K PPI and yet it's not nearly enough. Would it be possible to pull the headset a little further off the face and just counter balance it to get better PPD?

dclowd9901 3y ago

Is that Mirror Lake then?

deleted 3y ago

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tomcam 3y ago

I wonder if it might be a godsend for people who can’t work in open office plans

densh 3y ago
I sense some irony in spending extra time on commute only to put a headset that hides all the surroundings of the open office from you and immerses you in a virtual environment.

jdksjdoejd 3y ago

[flagged]

BossingAround 3y ago

Off topic, but when you click a photo in this blog, that's a proper nightmare. There's no way to get back to the article, and the back button exits the whole page. Talk about bad UX.

willemlaurentz 3y ago
Thanks for the feedback, I'll fix it!

evang7 3y ago

This is just not going to work. Whatever the experience may be, in this universe, it is not good for the eyes to be focused at a screen a few cm away for hours on end.

ianlevesque 3y ago
The focal distance is more like six feet on most headsets. That's further than my physical monitors are.

DerCommodore 3y ago

Not sure this my device, with such gigantic windows

yokoprime 3y ago

Coding with super heavy ski-goggles? No thanks… there’s a reason i take off my goggles when not skiing

machiaweliczny 3y ago

I thinking about using it for coding 2h at my balcony to get some sun exposure. When using macbook I am annoyed due to reflections. Does anyone know how pass through works in sunlight?

silisili 3y ago

> You can choose to let the real outer world in or filter it out, Yeah I do that by putting my monitor near a window, and using my special ability to move my ocular organs to decide what I get to see. It saves me 3k dollars and having to wear some awkward device on my head.

justinclift 3y ago

Hopefully Asahi Linux will run it on before too long. :)

fho 3y ago

One thing that immediately jumps out to me is that he had to increase font size a lot compared to what you'd use on a normal screen. I wager the guess that this is due to the "low" resolution that HMDs have. The last HMD I used was a HTC Vive Pro and there I could still see individual pixels. I have "high resolution eyes" (150-160% vision), but still I would assume that the resolution is still too low to render sharp text at a distance.

kllrnohj 3y ago
https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2-whats-the-display-resolution https://www.ifixit.com/News/90409/vision-pro-teardown-part-2... There's some math there. The ppi equivalent is rather low despite the rather high resolution and ridiculous density of the displays themselves, after blowing it up to 100 degrees of FOV it ends up being much lower "density" than anything else you're used to looking at

dzink 3y ago

What software do you use for development on the AVP? Do you connect it to your computer or use apps alone (terminal, ide, etc)?

gdubs 3y ago

I've been working a lot in Apple Vision Pro, using Xcode and also spatial visionOS windows for various things like messaging, browsing, etc. Personally, with my ZEISS inserts for my prescription, the text is incredibly sharp. I often will forget it's a virtual display in front of me, and not my actual monitor. This seems to vary for people, but since I didn't have my ZEISS prescription on day one, and I got to experience the before and after – I REALLY wonder how many people have worse eyesight than they realize, or are thinking that using the thing without their glasses is not making a difference. It absolutely makes a huge difference. In terms of comfort, it took a little while since I didn't go to the Apple Store, but it finally 'clicked' and I have a feel for how to wear it comfortably. Also, it's less forgiving of bad posture. So, you need to allow yourself time to experiment with how to wear it because it's worth it. It feels comfortable to me now – I spent hours in it yesterday.

WesolyKubeczek 3y ago

My freaking god. If the weather is good, I can take my gear + NReal Air places and not just into the dusty attic. True, in good weather it also means mosquitoes and gnats, but you can repel them. Real experiences for freakin’ .1x the price, and it works in Linux too.

whoopsie 3y ago

Don’t get it. So many reviewers have the tiniest of ide windows up, like on a 11” laptop. When I code in Vision Pro, I can set 5k resolution to the Mac link since my studio is hooked to a studio display. I’ll get over 100 readable lines, similar to a vertical 4k monitor.

kgbcia 3y ago

Seeing alot of online reviews that the AVP is too heavy. The front loaded weights but pressure on your cheeks and the straps put pressure on your temple. I like the idea of multiple monitors at high resolution, but not worth the pain on the face.

arsh4151 3y ago

[flagged]

dcchambers 3y ago

Until I can drop into a terminal with bash and full access to unix command line tools and an editor of my choice, the AVP just isn't useful for the type of work I do. Right now the only thing would be as a virtual display for my mac. But given the M2 chip inside the AVP there's no reason it can't do everything my mac can do (and more). Hopefully one day apple will come to their senses and let this thing be open for real development work, but I'm not holding my breath.

jgab 3y ago

Is anyone else using blink and vsCode for this? Seems like really good tool, but I am not sure how to turn off the smart quotes “”. Is this AVP that’s enabling, this or a vsCode/blink setting I need to resolve

rldjbpin 3y ago

using multiple virtual monitors and vim is exactly what i expected from this post, which it delivered well. having chatgpt integration in riced vim would've been icing on the cake.

evolve2k 3y ago

Frustratingly the author didn’t discuss get actual coding experience in any detail. How’s the resolution of the terminal and code editor. What was better/worse? What about weight, how long could he sit. Etc etc