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Solid-state EV batteries now face "production hell"
- brightball 3y agoGraphene Aluminum batteries are going to win this race IMO
- s0rce 3y agoAgainst conventional Li ion?
- alberth 3y agoWhen? For 20-years now we’ve heard graphene, would revolutionize the world. Not just batteries, but throughout tech. But unless I mistaken, there’s not a single graphene product on the market yet. Maybe it’ll be like AI. Where no major advancements happened for 50-years, and then ChatGPT was made.
- BeetleB 3y ago30 years if you're counting all the variants: https://d29xot63vimef3.cloudfront.net/image/popular-science/801-2.jpg https://d29xot63vimef3.cloudfront.net/image/popular-science/...
- folago 3y agoThese guys seems to be quite ahead in the process https://graphenemg.com/graphene-products/graphene-aluminium-ion-battery/ https://graphenemg.com/graphene-products/graphene-aluminium-...
- snakeyjake 3y agohttps://shopcaterpillar.com/products/18v-5ah-1-for-all-graphene-battery https://shopcaterpillar.com/products/18v-5ah-1-for-all-graph... You can buy graphene batteries right now. They are more expensive than non-graphene batteries so unless you have a need for the extra performance you tend to overlook them when shopping for batteries.
- brightball 3y agoYea, the trick has always been cheap availability of Graphene itself.
- zilti 3y agoJust because you didn't hear of it doesn't mean nothing happened for 50 years.
- Syonyk 3y agoJust as soon as they get out of the lab... (graphene being well regarded for being able to do anything but leave the lab for actual real world use)
- wilg 3y agoI mean if it's a race they've lost.
- grecy 3y agoThese articles are always "Don't buy an EV yet, MUCH better ones are coming soon". Same article since 2010, always Coming Soon™.
- jncfhnb 3y agoThey’re not wrong per se. the tech has been improving quickly.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- czbond 3y agoJust lease for the next 5-7 years - best risk mitigation I can think of
- Syonyk 3y agoYou definitely won't risk leaving large sums of money in your bank account... I suppose it depends on what risk you're concerned about, but if you've got the cashflow to flush money down the lease rabbithole, you probably don't care too much about a couple grand difference in value down the road on your car, beyond academically.
- gnicholas 3y agoThe WSJ just ran an article about how it may make sense for consumers to lease rather than buy, at this particular juncture. This is especially true where the vehicle doesn't qualify for federal tax credits if purchased, but does qualify if leased.
- lordfrito 3y agoSell a man a fish, and you'll eat for a day. Lease a man a fish and you'll eat for the rest of your life. Or something like that.
- mattfrommars 3y agoPost like these always make me go into the rabbit hole of how energy dense gasoline is. The energy density of gasoline is higher than liquid hydrogen! It does not need to be super cooled and is liquid state at atmospheric pressure and ambient temperature. Gasoline is an absolute miracle fuel. Sort of feels under appreciated to casually pump it at the gas station ha.
- boromi 3y agoYes per volume gasoline is impressive. You would need a tank 4 times the size of a gasoline tank for liquid hydrogen, not to mention the high pressure tank that is needed to store the liquid hydrogen .
- BHSPitMonkey 3y agoDo those comparisons take into account their respective engine technologies and how much useful work they are able to extract from each fuel in practice?
- dzhiurgis 3y agoHow come fuel cell cars have tanks holding like 10kg of liquid hydrogen?
- salty_biscuits 3y agoBecause fuel cells are very efficient at turning fuel to electricity, especially compared to an ICE.
- TylerE 3y agoThat's not ICE.
- anonymouskimmer 3y agoNitpick: It's typically compressed hydrogen for cars.
- imtringued 3y ago
- d_silin 3y agoAlmost any combination of reagents can work as primary cell - even a literal potato! But designing a secondary (rechargeable) cell is a different story... Every promising chemistry has been investigated for many decades and yet the successes are few. Magnesium, sodium or aluminium-based rechargeable battery can in theory be just as capable as lithium-based one, but we can't just get them to work.
- TylerE 3y agoIsn't the potato thing just differential potential caused by using different metals for the electrode? It'll make an LED light up, maybe, but the actual power available is a rounding error.
- doubloon 3y agoproduction is only hell if management is incompetent
- zpeti 3y agoDidn't Tesla say they were going to start using solid state batteries at the battery day a few years back? Does anyone know if they actually ARE using them? Or not yet - or will use them?
- vardump 3y agoI don't think Tesla has ever promised solid state batteries.
- reportingsjr 3y agoNo, they did not. They promised that they were going to start using a manufacturing technique called dry electrode coating, and they have done that.
- phtrivier 3y agoTitle is a bit misleading. To geeks, "production hell" sounds like "they're in the process of mass producing, and they're running into all sorts of problèms, but we'll see something any time soon." Kinda like the 6 months of crunch before a AAA game is released after 3 years of production. Except, the rest of the article makes it very clear that as far as production grade, mass marketable models of solid state batteries, we're more in the Hollywood version of "production hell", where no one has anything good to show, everybody is making press release, and we're rewriting the script until it barely looks like anything. But, hey, we'll get more "breakthroughs" headlines any time now, so that's what matters ?
- passwordoops 3y agoAs a geek I disagree with your interpretation of "production hell". I interpret it as a state where things either can't be built or never pass spec and we're outputting nothing but a series of one-offs that we hope won't get us sued with no real end in sight except for some vague "breakthrough" we're sure to hear from R&D any day now. Essentially your description of Hollywood but with things
- ksec 3y agoI guess that is the different between Hardware and Software. In hardware Production Hell definitely means they are in trial production but things are not yielding.
- mlrtime 3y agoAs an SRE... Production Hell to me is we already have a product in production with paying users and we are breaking things faster than we can fix them. If we don't change something quickly we risk losing our user base. Basically our Error Budget is approaching 0, fast.
- maxyurk 3y agodifferent type of production
- 3y ago
- cubefox 3y ago> To do the build-out, production, and validation could easily take seven or more years, Galyen said.
- Zigurd 3y agoI'm aware of the difficulty Aptera has had getting a product done, but I'm also surprised that there isn't more specialization in EV products. Most cars on US roads are used mostly for commuting, but EVs seem to be striving for 1:1 replacement of gasoline cars. That makes then very heavy and expensive. A commute-optimized EV should be cheaper and more efficient than that 1:1 replacement vehicle. It is less likely to depend on cutting edge batteries, too.
- zemvpferreira 3y agoMany have tried, all have failed. Safety regulation encourages the design of all-fits-one vehicles. Consumers prefer to pay the premium for a 'proper' car over a simpler vehicle. It is what it is, for now.
- estiaan 3y agoI don’t disagree if you only think about cars, but I’ve seen a lot of smaller electric vehicles gain popularity very quickly. Things like escooters and electric bicycles. For some people these work really well for commuting.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y agoMost of my driving is commuting (say 50 miles roundtrip would be sufficient), but I need/want a vehicle to handle the rest. I do not want to own two vehicles unless parking suddenly became free or the commuter only car model was significantly discounted vs anything available today.