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How to Work Effectively with Someone You Don't Like
- atemerev 3y agoGood points; I am, however, also interested in how to work effectively with someone who doesn’t like me.
- lacrimacida 3y agoSend them a link to this page
- xyzelement 3y agoProbably can troubleshoot a bit. How do you know they don't like you? What's your guess as to why?
- Supermancho 3y agoI almost always clash with someone who rather spend the team's time trying to do it right (for whatever that means to them) as opposed to sooner. This is often expressed as "making a second change is more time than taking a week to think about it carefully the first time". What's more, the results: * turns out it's a delaying tactic to avoid doing work * feature creep * added complexity, which is brittle (feature has to be reworked, nobody is happy) * constant nitpicking + the assumption that you will adopt their higher standards Is this better? For some projects maybe. At least we have alerts that go off every day and nobody pays attention to them and multi-tiered shared libraries that result in esoteric problems (mostly from package upgrades) that affects projects X, but not Y and Z. Not to say these engineers don't add value, but they are daily problems that everyone has to work around. This includes product stakeholders.
- Exoristos 3y agoDo you not have leadership? Whether to ship classy or shoddy work sounds like a business decision.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- peteradio 3y agoHow do you work with someone who has no responsibility? Like "build fixed boss" with link to failed build.
- unsupp0rted 3y agoCan you ask for proof? Tests passing, screenshots/gif of build fix in action, etc
- sevagh 3y agoIf it's anything like companies I've worked at, you stick them in an unimportant fiefdom and give them raises, promos, and refreshers for decades.
- bvirb 3y agoIf you can afford to and you have a team dynamic where "everyone makes mistakes" you can give them more responsibility -- like other people being stuck until they actually fix the build. But that can backfire if they're very junior or the culture is very negative around making mistakes. Otherwise asking them questions can help. Come from the place that you must be missing something and ask them why you can't get XYZ to work as expected. Make them figure out what the problem is. Really get in the mindset that you're missing something though, or it can come off as patronizing.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoIsn't that what PIP is for? Either improve or leave. Since it sounds like he's doing it on purpose (malicious compliance), if it's happening several times already and you've already explained to him what the correct process is. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for giving people second and third chances, have a talk with them and see what the problem is, maybe they have issues with their health or their personal life, but people who engage in malicious compliance because they can't be bothered to follow a simple process need to be shown the door pronto as that attitude negatively affect the whole team.
- donatj 3y agoGoing on a decade ago, I worked with a DBA who would get angry and scream about things and often at me because I was one of the few willing to butt head’s with him. He would want to change something in the database schema and I would calmly explain how that wouldn’t work for the business logic it was representing. He’d go on to berate you and the data design. He was very difficult to work with, but also inarguably one of the smartest people I have ever met. I learned so much from him that I still use today. We were even relatively friendly outside of work topics, talked about our mutual interest in minimalist music pretty often. When he was let go for obvious reasons, I was the strangest combination of upset and relieved I have ever experienced.
- a_c 3y agoCurious to know how is he doing now
- donatj 3y agoLinkedIn has had him as retired for a bit, but he was a DBA for Wells Fargo for years after he left us.
- a_c 3y agoThanks for the reply. Was wondering how did future pan out for someone talented but hard to work with. Would they have a rather tumultuous career, or have their talent recognized hence very successful or even if they started their own
- greenthrow 3y agoThe brilliant jerk thing is, in my experience, largely a myth. If someone is highly intelligent, they will realize acting like a jerk is not helpful and causes them problems, and they will correct that behavior. People who persist in acting like a rude child beyond college, in my experience, get credited as brilliant because people are intimidated by their attitude. But if you look at their actual accomplishments and delivered value, it will be unimpressive.
- andy99 3y agoThere's a framework of skill vs agreeableness, where you get {brilliant,incompetent}{nice,jerk}. If someone is objectively an incompetent jerk, there's not much to work with, otherwise there's usually a way. You don't have to like colleagues, just work professionally with them.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoNice and incompetent is often harder to deal with though. If someone is a jerk and incompetent, the solution is easy. You just fire that person, documenting the reasons is usually pretty easy, and nobody remaining feels bad about it. Nice and incompetent (assuming the person really is incompetent) is usually a lot harder. The business decision should be the same: fire them. But for most non-sociopaths, nobody wants to fire nice people, and their incompetence usually lingers much longer. On the flip side you see much of the same dynamic. Everyone loves brilliant nice people, so you keep them around. When it comes to brilliant jerks, I've found that most of the time , if they really are brilliant, they can be coached to understand their jerkiness is an impediment to their business/career goals, and will at least acknowledge it and try to keep it under wraps. But if they don't, at this stage of my life I just don't think it's worth it. They can go be super successful somewhere else, but my life is too short to be around someone a considerable portion of the day who is just toxic. I also think it's important to clarify what being "a jerk" means - there's a difference between being brash and short and being a toxic jerk. I mean, I think most people would classify Steve Jobs as a jerk by the dictionary definition, but he obviously wasn't a jerk that was toxic to the organization. On the contrary, he was a giant motivating force, and many people have said they did the best work of their lives working for him and are grateful for the opportunity.
- ryandrake 3y ago> I also think it's important to clarify what being "a jerk" means - there's a difference between being brash and short and being a toxic jerk. I mean, I think most people would classify Steve Jobs as a jerk by the dictionary definition, but he obviously wasn't a jerk that was toxic to the organization. The problem with "kind of jerks" at the helm is that people further down the totem pole look up to their leaders as examples of how to behave, and it is a lot easier to adopt "jerkness" into your behavior than it is to adopt the more subtle, effective parts of Jobs's personality and behavior that enabled Apple to succeed. So as they say, the fish rots from the head. The leader's SVPs take on a mildly "jerk" persona because that's the example set, their VPs look at their SVPs and become mostly jerks, their Directors become raging assholes, and before you know it, the whole management chain is toxic.
- zeroonetwothree 3y agoI just move on and work with someone else. Not worth the stress.
- gardenhedge 3y agoThis is better advice. If you can move on then do that.
- jodrellblank 3y ago"Run away from your problems, avoid dealing with them or learning better interpersonal skills" is better advice?
- gardenhedge 3y agoNot the phrasing I used or would use but, of course. If your goal is specifically to learn how to work with people you don't like then it makes sense to try work with them. If your goal is anything but that then you're better off avoiding that situation.
- underseacables 3y agoThis is good advice but when given I often hear pushback; there are no other jobs, why should I leave, or we need a union etc. If a job is making you feel bad, you should leave, because no matter what you're not likely to change that job. People bristle at this notion..
- sokoloff 3y agoChanging your company is usually easier than changing your company. ;)
- xenadu02 3y agoI pitch that advice as follows: You have two choices here. You can be fight for what you think is right but go into that battle understanding you have a high chance of losing. It is a noble endeavor and society needs people willing to pay the personal price to make forward progress. Only you can decide if this is the hill you want to die on. The second choice is to put yourself and/or your family first and move on. It's just a job. This second choice will almost always result in more happiness and possibly even wealth for you. Which is more important to you? Fighting for some form of "justice" here or being happy?
- braindead_in 3y agoInterestingly, all these things are required for loving kindness meditation practice as well.
- kaon123 3y agoNothing works if that person is your superior and holds absolute power over you. Examples situations close friends of mine have experienced: 1. You are a PhD student and he (and it usually is a he) is your professor. 2. You are in a profession with limited opportunity (say, HR) and he is your boss. 3. You are an immigrant, and losing your job means leaving the country. 4. All of the above. I feel articles like these are written by people that have never been in above situations. If you are in a dependency situation, you are fucked. Pro lifetip: Avoid dependency situations whenever you can. And sometimes you can't and just have to hope for the best. (edit: add styling)
- vannucci 3y agoYour 3rd bullet really hits hard, I had many colleagues at an old job who would do insane things for our company because they were on a visa and had purchased a home and they explained to me that they can't afford to not do every single thing asked. It was so heartbreaking.
- charlie0 3y agoI've worked at a place with mostly HB1 engineers and I've seen this lead to bad software because almost no one can say no to dumb requests. In these environments, no one challenges the higher ups and just do what they are told, no questions asked.
- robertlagrant 3y ago4 sounds particularly bad. A male PhD professor who's also your (usually?) male HR boss and you're in on H1B.
- elzbardico 3y agoThis is easy. The other way around, even more when you're new in the team and the person that doesn't like you is well established is the biggest challenge.
- lijok 3y agoAs far as I understand, the fastest way to correct a work relationship going sour, without having to go through an emotional rollercoaster, is to find a connection, no matter how small. Maybe you both enjoy/dislike something, maybe you're both experts at a particular thing, etc.
- unsupp0rted 3y agoI’ve never found the connection angle useful, as the recipient of the attempt. It feels... if not patronizing, then at least irrelevant. Oh Star Trek played a vital role in both our formative years? That’s nice, but let’s get back to solving the matter at hand.
- DonHopkins 3y agoEven a shared love of Star Trek can result in irreconcilable differences and huge battles. I'd never want to work with somebody who likes Holodeck episodes or doesn't love Gowron. That said, there are some times that even Star Trek fans and Star Wars fans can actually get along. I'm bistellar: I love both Star Trek AND Star Wars!
- naasking 3y ago> I'd never want to work with somebody who likes Holodeck episodes or doesn't love Gowron. I like holodeck episodes, as long as they're not overdone. I have no strong feelings about Gowron, seems like a canonical distillation of a Klingon. Maybe we won't get along. > I'm bistellar: I love both Star Trek AND Star Wars! Me too! Can we get along now?
- DonHopkins 3y agoOf course, as long as I can shower you with all my favorite Gowron themed Star Trek Shitposting memes! Look into his eyes. You'll grow to love him the way I do, and thank me later, I promise.
- Der_Einzige 3y ago
- whatyesaid 3y agoGPT?
- greatpostman 3y agoEven worse, what’s the advice for when your cofounder is the ceo, has a higher stake than you, and is borderline incompetent? But you’re funded and the idea has promise. Quite the catch 22. Do you stay and do all the work while this person is along for the ride? Assume you can’t push them out
- williamcotton 3y agoDid they do the fundraising? Do your primary investors like and appreciate this person? If neither are true, talk with your investors and perhaps they can offer advice.
- greatpostman 3y agoThey have an absolutely premium resume. Investors like it
- williamcotton 3y agoIsn’t their fundraising ability kind of valuable to your interests? Is there a way you can help find some work for them to do? Like, hitting the pavement hard to wrangle up customers? I dunno, just spitballing!
- carlosjobim 3y agoWho would found a company together with somebody without knowing that person very deeply? You can't be in business if you're incompetent in the most basic skill for businesses: understanding people. How didn't you know before that he or she was incompetent? That makes you completely incompetent as well. Learn people skills before trying to start a business again, or you will be burnt.
- greatpostman 3y agoGood situations come up, X millions raised. Takes a few months of working with someone to understand them. It’s probably still better than working a regular job
- EspressoGPT 3y agoTIL: Visiting Forbes without an ad blocker will trigger epilepsia.
- anticensor 3y agoMajor or minor seizure?
- chiefalchemist 3y agoMy only "agreement" going into a position is: I'll do my best to make you look good, if you do the same for me and everyone else.[1] Sometimes it works well. Sometimes it doesn't. It's not that I don't like the person per se. It's that that person typically likes themselves too much, and the rest of stand in that shadow (read: blind spot). People talk about being nice and being kind, etc. at work. Sure, that helps. But first and foremost...Do. Your. Job. And don't neglect the team either. [1] This work "agreement" is a more optimistic riff on another heuristic I have: When you expect more of me than you do of yourself, we have a problem.
- froggertoaster 3y agohttps://archive.is/kbpFk https://archive.is/kbpFk
- flint 3y agoYears ago, I had an issue with a coworker. My mentor told me to pray for them. I cursed him but did it anyway. About six months later, a different coworker came to me and asked, "How do you get along with X? They really seem to respect you." I told him that I prayed for X. He called me an axxhole.
- varjag 3y agoThis has to be the most American thing I read on HN this year.
- sumtechguy 3y agosounds like you found someone new to pray for
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- selimthegrim 3y agoDo you live in the South?
- flint 3y agoI live in Nashville now. That job was on Wall Street. I am not religious.
- shipscode 3y agoInstead of partaking in these mental gymnastics it’s prudent to go out on your own or get a new job.
- johnnyanmac 3y agoCan on;y do that so many times in quick succession before it becomes harder to jump the next time.
- JohnFen 3y agoThose are good tips. I would also add "don't engage with them on anything that isn't work-related". I have a coworker who is difficult to work with because he insists on political conversations. "Don't engage" is working well there. Every time he tries to talk politics, I immediately shift the conversation to a work topic. I keep hoping that he'll catch the hint, but even if he never does, doing that still avoids unnecessary workplace strife.
- snowwrestler 3y agoAvoiding political conversations at work is probably a good idea even with people you do get along with. Getting along great doesn’t always mean two people will agree on every topic. And obviously people do not need to agree on every topic to have a fantastic time working together. Also, depending on the context, other people might overhear part of the conversation and disagree, get offended, etc.
- Faark 3y agoBut do you want to work with people you cannot disagree with? Like, at some point we will probably disagree on work related topics as well, and I'd expect it to go somewhat similarly.
- savanaly 3y agoThe dose makes the poison. So it is with disagreement, why opt into more of it?
- betenoire 3y agoDisagreeing on work-related stuff usually isn't about opinions, it is usually about ways to get things done. I _want_ to hear why I'm wrong about things in my job, I want to learn. I don't care about hearing why I'm wrong about life in general. There is a blurry line with things that are indirectly work related (ex: opinions on cloud vs self hosting, etc). Those are for friday afternoons :)
- imetatroll 3y ago
- asylteltine 3y agoShould you though? Generally people tend to get fired when no one wants to work with them. Life is too short
- QuadrupleA 3y agoThese all seem so passive... various forms of "accept it and behave like the problem doesn't exist." What about kind/effective ways to give feedback or communicate about behavior that isn't working?
- dandare 3y agoBecause it almost never works.
- Joker_vD 3y agoYou seem to suppose that there is always some magic combination of words that would make the other side to suddenly change their behaviour. Unfortunately, there may be not: say, other other side actively doesn't want to change their behaviour (they're personally fine with it, and your proposed changes would inconvenience them ever so slightly), and then can afford to not change — now what?
- ryandrake 3y agoI always loved the scene[1] in Star Trek: The Next Generation season 7, where Data gives Wharf negative feedback about his job performance. It's obviously fictional, but it's a pretty good example of assertively, professionally and politely giving constructive feedback that can be accepted without losing face by the recipient. A lot of best practices shown in this one scene. 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdiQhMPt1Zo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdiQhMPt1Zo
- chriscjcj 3y agoGotta love that Picard Maneuver at the very end. According to the video below, it's Data's one and only! https://youtu.be/3ar-eJwgTsM?t=910 https://youtu.be/3ar-eJwgTsM?t=910
- DonHopkins 3y agoQ's one and only was impressive! https://youtu.be/3ar-eJwgTsM?t=710 https://youtu.be/3ar-eJwgTsM?t=710
- stuckinhell 3y agoIf you they don't like you, you should assume they will try to get you fired. Document get ready to prove anything and everything to HR. 77% issues in business are really just people who dislike you personally.
- ecshafer 3y agoYou must work with psychopaths. If your reaction to not liking someone is to try and get them fired, there's something deeply wrong with you. I've worked with plenty of people that I don't want to be friends with, but you go to work, make some small talk, and do your job.
- stuckinhell 3y agoyea I probably do, Fortune 500 companies attract very ambitious people.
- bsenftner 3y agoBack when I worked in the incredibly dysfunctional video game industry, it was common for various key technical people to become soured over the course of the 18 months of 7 day weeks... After they'd threatened to quit multiple times, extorted the studio for as much raise as the studio could afford... they'd call me in to be the guy that talks his attitude down for the duration of the remainder of the production. I have the skills to evaporate anguish, overt aggression, and talk pragmatic sense into people pushed over the edge. You may have heard of the incredibly stressful day to day working at EA Sports; several of those games in the 90's were in serious risk of never completing because the team were going to kill one another - then they called me in.
- mattbrewsbytes 3y agoEnlighten us, gamedev whisperer. Seriously though - that had to be some stressful situations and a lot of people could benefit from hearing how you were able to de-escalate things.
- bsenftner 3y agoJust be a person, real person that listens to them, agrees when they make sense, but also point out contractual obligations, ramifications of leaving, never threats, just calm discussion. I was at E.A. when 3D0 flopped, and learned a lot about handling stress.
- gilmore606 3y agoI choose to believe it's because of you that I got to play the best version of Road Rash. Thank you for your service.
- bsenftner 3y agoWell, I wrote the video subsystem for RoadRash3D0.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
- jksmith 3y agoThose five qualities are all great if they can be codified into a delivery system. Don't hate the player, hate the game. If you don't like the game, only one thing to argue about, which is changing the rules of the game. But then the fifth quality kicks in, which is "Letting Go." Trust/improve the process for the sake of using less energy.
- ape4 3y agoWhat if you're the one that's unliked ;)
- H8crilA 3y agoWhen you reach the effective pay/level ceiling you can also decide to play along and wreck a little havoc by for example letting the asshole say too much in meetings or on corporate parties. It's a fine balancing game, where your goal is to create entertainment without negatively impacting your own emotional state. Most people are actually at some sort of a ceiling, for example due to inability or unwillingness to reach higher ("do politics") or to move to a more profitable location/company, even if they don't realize it.
- madamelic 3y agoI disagree mostly. If they are that obviously disagreeable, others likely also have problems with them and they are just a difficult person to work with. Leadership that allows such a person to run unabated (ie: no corrective action nor termination) is ineffective and weak in my opinion, either purposefully or accidentally. If you find someone that is strongly disagreeable indefinitely and others in the company voice the same sentiment for long periods, you should leave as soon as possible because somewhere in the chain, there are problems no one is addressing and it will only get worse especially if it is a young company. People like this are a cancer and it will never result in anything good. If you find someone that is strongly disagreeable and others don't say the same (or even worse, the opposite!), there is a good chance _you_ are the problem and should check-in with yourself why. People don't rampage through life unchecked for no reason. There is a reason and both you can near immediately fix. Kow-towing to others and just dealing with it isn't solving the problem, it could even be making the situation worse.
- johnnyanmac 3y agoI think the issue is that it's rarely "obviously disagreeable". I read a lot of comments here and I'd say a good half of them feel slighted over very minor stuff. Stuff that affeccts a friendship but it really shouldn't impact your ability to work. bringing up Star Trek too much or your kids may be annoying to some, but isn't disciplinary worthy in my eyes
- green_biri 3y agoOne year ago during an online meeting, a coworker from another team compromised with our client on a set date for a solution. The deadline is reached a week later, and no updates are available on the progress. I engage my colleague with an initial friendly tone via Teams, full of my characteristic smiley emojis. My messages are seen, however ignored. Several hours later, I notice that my colleague is joining a non-priority, non-mandatory meeting. I send a new message, stating that I am aware of his presence on the meeting. I beg for any feedback, as by now my inbox has 2 frustrated emails from our client. My words are conveying desperation, as I only intend to obtain any significant status update. My colleague replies that his agenda is none of my business, then proceeds to report my "invasive" approach to my manager. Our client got understandably upset, as we missed the deadline. We later lost the contract that month. I still do not go along with this coworker, as earlier this month we have had another disagreement, which, I am afraid, has only worsened the relationship, maybe up to an unsalvageable state. This article does not seem to have suitable advice for my scenario, as I have no interest in working with unresponsive and irresponsible individuals. I do wish the article could provide more insights on how to deal with lack of ownership as well.
- flappyeagle 3y agoThere are 3 situations 1. No one is being an asshole, it's a real misunderstanding or difference of opinion. The article basically helps you in this circumstance. It's rare. 2. The other party is an asshole. They should be fired. If no one gets along with them this is probably true. 3. You are an asshole. You should be fired. If you find yourself always working with people you think are assholes this is probably true. Figure out if it's 1,2, or 3 first
- naasking 3y agoI'm not sure being an asshole is enough to get fired if you're doing the job and not breaking any rules. I suppose it depends on what "being an asshole" means in this context. If it means rude or curt or whatever, then no. If it means actually breaking the rules, then sure.
- johncessna 3y agoI think it's more likely that number 1 is the norm and 2 and 3 are the rare exceptions. We aren't omniscient beings. Your perception that person A stole credit for your idea may forget that person A was involved or doesn't account for the work they did that you weren't aware of. 3 people sit around at a table during happy hour discussing ideas for an offsite. Person A suggests that they have it in Atlanta and provides good justification. Later, Person B follows up with their contact in finance to see if they can extend the budget, and gets it approved. Person C, who's job it was to plan the offsite, coordinates with the travel coordinators, gets invitations sent out, and other various Who's idea was this? Who deserves the credit? I think all 3 have claims and it'd be easy for each one of them to accuse the other 2 of idea theft or taking credit for things they didn't do. A contrived example, yes, but I think misunderstandings due to a lack of seeing all the information/data happens more often than people realize.
- datadrivenangel 3y agoThe problem is when people are actively making your life harder just for their own ego. The best way to deal with it is to vote with your feet.
- at_a_remove 3y agoI privately dread being that person that is unliked. So much so that at times I fear it is becoming self-perpetuating. I mostly shut up, for fear of being misunderstood. Maybe I should use this as a handout.
- JohnFen 3y agoA fact of life is that nobody is going to be liked by everybody. That's just not how people work. Trying to ensure everyone likes you is a bit like trying to ensure that the weather is great every day.
- at_a_remove 3y agoIt's more a fear of being disliked by everybody than not being liked by everybody.
- danielovichdk 3y agoI am that guy. Really. I don't try hard to be someone others don't like. But I try with every inch to ask why at things I don't understand, and quite frankly I demand answers. I very rarely believe in anybody professionally, because people has a tendency to nurse their subjective opinions and thought more than commit to long reasonings of why and find evidens for their claims. I don't make friends at work. In my almost 25 years in software engineering and management of teams I go to work for getting things done and backed by as sound proof as possible. I keep track of this, write everything down and hate verbal communication because it blurs agreements and is subject to lie from other parts. I am actually a cool guy at night. I have a rich family life and a big social network. I am mentally fit and in good shape. But don't fuck around when you work with me because I go hard on being absolute surgical on point. Call it what you want. I call it being professional.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- reportgunner 3y agoThe fact that the article recommends being respectful, having integrity and trying to learn and improve from the interactions says a lot about the people who are not like you.
- pvg 3y agoI think you also have to recognize not everyone shares your dedication to the study of the blade.
- madamelic 3y agoThe problem isn't necessarily the people like you, in my opinion, who have the experience to back their words up. The real problems are the expert beginners who think they know everything because they read 3 books or something. If someone came in with vastly more experience than me, I am not going toe-to-toe with them unless I know for a fact they are wrong because I trust they know what they are doing. As long as they aren't yelling at me or demeaning, I am on the train of helping them do what they want. There's a difference between authority and being an asshole in my opinion.
- gemstones 3y agoAs in software, the best tool for avoiding errors is to not have the software in the first place. If you must work with someone, or consider yourself to have an ethical obligation to follow this, this is good advice. If you don't... Just slowwwly remove your touchpoints with them. Freeze them out. Go through other channels. If you do this right, the person will feel like you have just gradually drifted apart, but won't be able to pinpoint a clear cause. You don't have to try and get them fired, or anything (and that may backfire on you, so I don't recommend doing it.) But if enough people do this, then they will gradually be the most replaceable person on the team, and they may be let go regardless.
- ramesh31 3y ago>Just slowwwly remove your touchpoints with them. Freeze them out. Go through other channels. If you do this right, the person will feel like you have just gradually drifted apart, but won't be able to pinpoint a clear cause. Doesn't work if they're leading the project. This is also a very childish way of dealing with problems. Part of your job is to be an adult and learn how to work with people you don't like. Not how to avoid them. It's a critical skill to success in this industry.
- gemstones 3y agoOh it's not good advice for everyone! If they're a lead on a team you must interface with, they fall into my "you must work with them" bucket, and then the article is pretty good advice. Eh, I disagree that it's childish advice! It works out pretty well for everyone except the person being frozen out - no matter if you're a child or an adult.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago>Eh, I disagree that it's childish advice! It works out pretty well for everyone except the person being frozen out then that person posts on hacker news why no one seems to want to "be an adult" , how they are blocked on tasks due to slow communication, and overall feel the workplace is hostile. And the chain of apathy continues. And people wonder why work is so miserable. PAy can be a factor, but it usually isn't in tech.
- amelius 3y agoHow to work with someone who: 1. you have to work with remotely, and 2. never reads your entire e-mails, only the first sentence or (if you're lucky) the first paragraph. Any ideas?
- munchbunny 3y agoWhy do you "have to" work with them? I think the nature of your dependency on them and their dependency on you figures heavily into your viable options to address the overall communication problem. In my experience this kind of issue is often unique to the specific pair of people.
- throwbadubadu 3y agoCondense email, always a good idea to reflect, e.g I can quickly write too long texts where you can cut half. Condensing down to one sentence is maybe hard though. Alternatively, write multiple one sentence emails... :D Seriously? Ask him to read better an/or do more calls, if they work better? If nothing helps, fire/report/escalate whatever option you have, as simple as that, or run for yourself ;)
- edgarvaldes 3y agoShorter emails? I'm serious. I try to write a draft, then edit it until the core message is left. Then, "check this docs/let's have a virtual meet" for more context.
- bjornlouser 3y agoAdd a hook in the first sentence of your email that allows them to shine, even if it’s a false lie. “I’m having trouble figuring out this piece of the critical path”
- BeetleB 3y agoAn article from Forbes giving tips that are implicitly stating you should stay in an abusive relationship? I'm not surprised. While these aren't bad tips per se, the article is sorely incomplete. Where are the tips on how to escalate? Having conversations with management (and/or peers) on why bad behavior is being enabled? Where's the tip on leaving? My last job had a brilliant asshole. Within a year it was clear the management knew and did not want to do anything about it. Every person in the team was tolerating the poor behavior. So as soon as I wrapped up the project I was working on, I switched teams. He continued to be a headache in that team. Finally, about 2 years later I found out that one person who had suffered significantly was thinking of quitting. I let him know that if he wanted to escalate to HR (specifically for harassment - it was getting that far out of hand), that I had kept notes of his behavior (with dates, etc) during my time there. He decided he would escalate and informed his manager. The manager said "Give me a bit of time and let me deal with this." Soon after, the asshole went on vacation and soon after that it was announced that he had decided not to return. Whether he was fired or convinced to quit - I don't know. The real question is: Why do things have to reach the point of harassment before action is taken? If you're in that sort of org, don't stay there. It will be a magnet for such folks. I do feel sorry for the guy. We had lots of points of connection (as per this article). I did empathize with him on many things. He actually campaigned to get me that job! He could have been a great employee if he changed his world view and behaviors a bit. But social proof was against him and there was no one he looked up to who could mentor him on his behavior.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- blablabla123 3y ago> If you're in that sort of org, don't stay there. It will be a magnet for such folks. That's true. I've been at a job where people routinely talked badly about people in other teams but also a colleague I closely worked with was constantly accusing me of breaking agreements, going behind management's back. At first I didn't take all of this very seriously and thought trying to say as little as possible will be the best strategy. Eventually though my manager asked me directly and I mentioned these things. He said he'll take action and eventually also HR got in the loop. Some things happened but the general issues persisted. FWIW I heard colleagues even saying really insulting things about HR.
- willseth 3y agoThis is bland advice and only applies in trivial situations where the colleague has bad habits, quirks, etc., which is really most people. Everyone can be annoying if you look for that perspective, but most people are…fine. If someone is actually manipulative or abusive, this advice is tantamount to “chill out, and let them walk all over you.” Actual shitty people don’t usually think they are being shitty and/or they have very powerful rationalization engines and/or short memories. For these actual shitty people, showing respect or “finding a connection” won’t stop their shitty behavior, so what’s the point? Maybe if taking the high road makes you feel better, but really if you find yourself stuck working with one of these people, you should GTFO. That is the critical missing piece from this article.
- throwitaway222 3y agoI was that "chill out, and let them walk all over you" person for someone that started helping our company as a contractor. He had a very dominant personality, of which no one at our 4 person shop had. A year later the CEO announced he was our VP of engineering. He made comments about women, made inappropriate jokes a lot. The remaining 3 years that I was at the company, his personality fused into everything and every new hire. Everyone picked up his attitude, jokes and lack of seriousness. Could easily be a textbook definition of how toxic behavior spreads. Even me, eventually I found myself cracking jokes about customers to please this person. I finally left, comically after this person left - the company now dangling and struggling. I joined a new company, and I found it refreshing to see people take things seriously again. Huge difference. So yes, you should GTFO if this happens to you.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago> This is bland advice and only applies in trivial situations where the colleague has bad habits, quirks, etc. given the responses here, it sounds like it should help a few people's problems.
- 5cott0 3y ago"You run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day, you're the asshole." - Raylan Givens "If you're gonna keep talkin I'm gonna put you in the trunk" - also Raylan Givens
- outworlder 3y agoWhen it comes to jobs, you could be standing in Asshole Central, though.
- JoeyJoJoJr 3y agoI don’t really like that first quote because, at least from what I have observed, really shitty people tend to operate in circles, as do really great people. It is perhaps not until you make a massive life change, such as moving city, that you realise that assholes were dominating all of your previous social circles.
- johnnyanmac 3y agoI mean, that is a valid solution. If you're a highly liberal person and you're in conservative central, you will be seen as the asshole. Or maybe it's something more tame like being a sports buff outside of work among a sea of techies who talk about nothing but programming. It's all relative. Either way, the quote to me reflects a need to either change yourself or your environment.
- josefrichter 3y agoI once had a colleague who hated me to the point she refused to talk to me. The weird thing was I had no idea why. Even when I offered her to have an open conversation, to clarify what happened, and how can I possibly fix it, she just didn't respond. Was kinda difficult to work with her :-)
- romanows 3y agoCould your manager have helped figure this out? Even if they can't change anything, it can be helpful to loop your manager in so they aren't surprised if a simmering conflict erupts down the road.
- davidw 3y agoI will hand this out to future co-workers by way of introducing myself...
- zubairq 3y agoGreat tips. Thanks!
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- llbeansandrice 3y agoThis feels like the boomer advice my parents would give me when I just want to rant about my job or a coworker. It's also so incredibly generic and bland that it really only applies if someone is being kind of annoying rather than weapons grade incompetent or manipulative. Seems right up Forbes' alley tho.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago>when I just want to rant about my job or a coworker. Are you a man? It's a pretty common action for a man to want to "solve a problem" when hearing a conversation based around problems. Even with modern conversation we don't really have much language to codify when we "just want to rant". It should be felt by body language and my autistic mind never catches that. It just feels even lazier to sit there and listen to someone dump with no recourse, I feel helpless. So I get it. I don't have an answer and I ironically did it right here, but just some consideration from the other side of the fence. >it really only applies if someone is being kind of annoying rather than weapons grade incompetent or manipulative. sounds like half the problems being vented out here.
- watwut 3y agoIt was literally his/her parents, not OP who would try to give advice. Also, as someone who works in male dominated profession, men rant all the time, complain all the time and do not want to hear solutions when that goes on. Just assume they just want to rant. I tend to give advice too, but I try to hold up unless I am really sure, cause most of the time people just want to rant.
- johnnyanmac 3y agoparents are even more susceptible to doing that. They spent the first 20 years of your life doing that after all. >Also, as someone who works in male dominated profession, men rant all the time, complain all the time and do not want to hear solutions when that goes on. sure. Doesnt mean men who are listening don't try. Or interject with their own rant instead. Those tend to be the two most common responses. >I tend to give advice too, but I try to hold up unless I am really sure, cause most of the time people just want to rant. I'm more of the "dang, that sucks" kind of person personally. So I guess I'm the ideal subject for that. Not because I'm not listening, I just genuinely have nothing else to say in response. I don't like ranting much IRL period (work, family, friends).
- tcgv 3y agoGreat tips. They may seem obvious, but often aren't. When I was an individual contributor, I encountered my fair share of occasional work disagreements, and fortunately, was able to learn and grow from those experiences without much hassle. I consider myself more relaxed than the average person, so you really need to make an effort to get me stressed. Working in environments with a balanced work culture also help. After becoming a manager I realized that not only do I need to continue handling occasional personal disagreements with colleagues, but I'm also now responsible for coaching my reportees on how to effectively navigate their own conflicts and occasionally stepping in to mediate. It's been an interesting challenge managing people and helping them become more happy, productive and achieve our business goals as a team. Shameless plug: In a related matter, I recently wrote simple guidelines and examples on how to communicate better when receiving requests from colleagues, which I noticed is one of the many ways people start developing a negative opinion of their counterpart, fostering conflicts: - https://thomasvilhena.com/2023/10/guideliness-for-requests-from-colleagues https://thomasvilhena.com/2023/10/guideliness-for-requests-f...
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- ctrlp 3y ago"He that has once done you a kindness will be more ready to do you another, than he whom you yourself have obliged."
- todotask 3y agoMy coworker, a Singaporean gentleman, was an older man who often communicated in a way that was awkward and confusing, making work with him a challenge. He had a habit of spamming Buddhist topics in WhatsApp and boasting about his achievements, especially his daughter, in a manner that felt unprofessional. What made it worse was that he would intentionally give hard massages on my shoulder behind me when I had repeatedly mentioned that I had an injury on my right joint arm. In the end, the situation became so untenable that I felt compelled to resign from the Japanese MNC. As for my colleague, I hear he's planning to retire with his wife in China, where he can hopefully enjoy an affordable living standard. I would say that he has an interesting work attitude. In other workplaces, I was surprised that the company hired a male colleague who had the habit of touching or molesting other male colleagues.
- neilv 3y ago> and 87% have worked with a toxic boss, according to a poll How many bosses have those polled had? (What's the likelihood that any given boss is toxic?)
- watwut 3y agoToxic people are more likely to seek positions in power. They are also more likely to keep and gain them, because they have less issues to harm competitors (for example by intentional gossip) and are more likely to say pleasing lies.
- onetimeuse92304 3y agoAm I the only one that sees the most important point is missing? 0. Focus on facts in any conversation with or about the person. Keep anything that is not obviously related to work products out of it. Yes, especially when you both don't like each other but there is willingness on both sides to achieve same or at least similar goal and have productive relationship, keeping emotions and opinions out of it and focusing on just the facts is, in my opinion, the best way to deal with the situation. Also, don't comment, spread rumors of any kind about the person you don't like. I tell other people "I may not like the person but I don't find it a problem as long as we both want to achieve the same positive goal for the organisation."
- poulsbohemian 3y agoI appreciate these articles but there's always something they overlook: what if the other party doesn't want to play ball? You see it in politics, relationships, business - if the other side is in "I win, you lose" mode, none of these coping strategies really work. That's the article I want to see written.
- JohnFen 3y ago> if the other side is in "I win, you lose" mode, none of these coping strategies really work. If I'm dealing with a person like that, and the thing they want to "win" isn't something important for work, then I just let them "win". It's no skin off my nose. Let them have their meaningless victory. If it is something important for work, then I just make the best factual case I can to whoever matters and roll with the results.
- effnorwood 3y ago[dead]
- iteratethis 3y agoMy tip would be: just don't care. I once was hired as a type of consultant for an internal matter. The company had a lot of in-house developed software from various internal departments situated in different countries. A whole bunch of representatives traveled to a single location focusing on one such important application. We had 10 local versions of it. Plan is to get rid of all of them and align on what should go into a single new one that was to be built. The sessions were a total disaster. A tragedy of the commons situation where each representative did not cooperate or align, instead they all tried to "win" each and every little detail. Frustration grew, there was shouting, petty revenge behavior, toddler-like silence (I refuse to further speak), people simply leaving, and even people crying from stress. In the debrief with the session leader, she was still traumatized. She watched me dutifully make notes and then asked: how do you do this? During the sessions, which lasted 2 days, I was at perfect peace amidst a bunch of screaming pseudo-adults. Completely unbothered. I'm not talking about controlling my frustration, I had none at all. Because I don't care. It's a super power. Which obviously needs to be applied responsibly.
- ravishi 3y agoIf I may ask: do you have kids? I used to have a lot of trouble when trying to not care about stuff. I didn't care about most stuff, but it used to be impossible to not care about stuff I was naturally interested in. Now after almost three years raising a toddler I can see clearly when people are behaving like babies. And I'm used to handle a stressed baby who is not cooperating for God knows why. It happens quite frequently and I just play along. I got used to being there, offering support without any expectations (because he usually doesn't want any at that point), trying things out just to give him a chance to take the bait, etc. Now it just feels like life is finally making sense to me. I catch myself applying this to my relationship with my wife, to my work, etc. I feel like I would probably not make these realizations nor develop this mindset if it wasn't for my kid.
- imetatroll 3y agoMan does this resonate. More people should endure kids not just for this but for the joyful moments as well.
- black_13 3y ago[dead]
- rcarmo 3y agoVery timely article, highly debatable approach. Not really worth following.