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Flexport is rescinding a bunch of signed offer letters

• globalise83 3y ago
  Guess a few HN users will be affected: I remember seeing dozens of who's hiring messages about Flexport right here on HN.
• davesque 3y ago
  TIL: Ignore any job postings by Flexport.
• rsynnott 3y ago
  This surely has to impact their ability to hire in the future. Like, personally I’ve never heard of Flexport before, and it doesn’t really sound like my sort of thing in any case, but… presumably at some point they will want to hire again, and this feels like it’ll put off anyone who has other options. (I’m always baffled at these really poorly handled layoffs - most companies doing layoffs will need to hire again at some point, potentially in a competitive environment. The internet exists; people will look it up.)
  • Rebelgecko 3y ago
    There's probably a reason their hiring posts here have comments disabled
    • booi 3y ago
      tbf.. all YC hiring posts have their comments disabled..
      • deaddodo 3y ago
        I hate this, actually. I think it's fair to be able to comment on companies that are using the platform to advertise, in case there are things that need to be know. Even reddit lets you comment on advertising posts.
        • roflyear 3y ago
          HN companies have a history of breaking labor laws - I have noticed several times that posts hiring in NYC for example do not include salary ranges, which is required by law. It is not surprising.
        • minimaxir 3y ago
          Generally there wouldn't be any positive comments on an advertising post.
          • farrarstan 3y ago
            [dead]
          • deaddodo 3y ago
            OK, and? I don't care if Flexport offers foosball. I do care if 20 people say "I was hired, and they pulled my offer three days before my start date."
            • StressedDev 3y ago
              How do you know those people are telling the truth or even people? Remember, there is a lot of astroturf on the Internet. A good way to spot corporate astroturf is to watch which companies have people who defend them no matter what they do. Another tip is look for companies which are bashed even when they do great work. That is a sign one of their competitors is paying for astroturf.
              • tongueinkek 3y ago
                [flagged]
        • 1270018080 3y ago
          VC leadership isn't going to want fair
        • wolfgang42 3y ago
  • egnegjoej 3y ago
    Uh, yeah. At this point in time, this is the first and only thing I know about Flexport.
  • lazyninja987 3y ago
    [dead]
  • dylan604 3y ago
    Didn't FAANG, minus Apple, all rescind offer letters when the great reckoning started happening?
    • colordrops 3y ago
      What triggered "the great reckoning" by the way? Was it Musk firing 80% of Twitter staff, and everyone started following suit?
      • roland35 3y ago
        Lots of "economic uncertainty". Although I think the economy was just normal, and big tech just massively over hired
        • dylan604 3y ago
          Lots of economic uncertainty following a couple years of “these difficult times”. No, not the pandemic, the Fed’s raising of interest rates
      • csomar 3y ago
        I think it's mostly the quantitative tightening.
• spicyusername 3y ago
  A Flexport team member will reach out to each of you personally asap to explain the move. I hope you will forgive us someday and even consider coming to work here again once we get our house in order. But now would not be a good time to add more people and expenses to the company. Wow, how tone-deaf. What a joke. It would have been better to say nothing.
  • Reason077 3y ago
    I disagree. At least they're being transparent and offering an explanation, however flimsy. Saying nothing would effectively be ghosting: very disrespectful, IMO.
    • FireBeyond 3y ago
      With a signed offer in hand, ghosting would have been basis for a lawsuit. They're not being transparent at all. This is the founder: "I have no idea how this happened. We've had a hiring freeze for months". (emphasis mine) Calling this a "transparent explanation" is really stretching it.
      • StressedDev 3y ago
        He may not know how it happened. Remember, he started his job 2 days ago.
        • dyno12345 3y ago
          wasn't he chairman of the board before that?
• leesec 3y ago
  This sucks but if he found out the company was doing this when it would be financially irresponsible for them to do so, it's right of him to cut his losses asap.
• MH15 3y ago
  Why didn't they hire the allotted offers then implement a more aggressive PIP? Asking from a place of genuine curiosity, I don't know how this stuff works at this level. But seems to me it would have saved reputation to trickle-cull the salary cost center instead of doing this so vocally.
  • roland35 3y ago
    It's probably better to just avoid onboarding new employees and all the ramp-up time associated with that. Although this is basically what a lot of other companies seem to be doing now sadly.
  • austhrow743 3y ago
    They might be doing both.
  • janosdebugs 3y ago
    I don't know about this specific case, but when a lot of people get sent on a PIP for BS reasons, that may a) incur lawsuits and b) demoralize their colleagues.
• victor9000 3y ago
  Seems like a great time to start poaching flexport talent. Now that leadership has shown its true colors, I can't imagine anyone working there is feeling very confident about their future.
  • SCUSKU 3y ago
    Friend at the company said everyone basically stopped working. Apparently the CEO in the all hands said that they WILL be layoffs on the engineering team, so everyone is now just waiting for the other shoe to drop.
    • roflyear 3y ago
      I encourage everyone to go on blind and check out the commentary there...!
  • ditonal 3y ago
    Let’s not forget that Flexport is one of the darling representatives of YCs portfolio. YC has some verbiage about ethical behavior on their website, but when it’s come to actual tough ethical situations like DoorDash pocketing drivers tips, Flexport reneging on signed offers, or all sorts of insanely narcissistic behavior by other YC founders, it’s been shown their “ethics” are words and not actions. This shouldn’t just reflect poorly on Flexport leadership but on their investors. Especially because the more time you spend in Silicon Valley you learn that your “scrappy startup” is really a product division of the VCs who really call the shots. Pay close attention to what you hear from pg, Garry Tan, Michael Seibel, etc on this issue. Very very easy to talk ethics in the abstract. Real ethics and integrity are defined in exactly tough times like this. And if you see the cowardice that I expect like we saw with DoorDash, keep that in mind before you “Work at a Startup”
    • KingOfCoders 3y ago
      Or the Airbnb debacle where PG defended sketchy behaviour here.
    • TX81Z 3y ago
• wcunning 3y ago
  The thing I'm taking away from this is that the next time I get a new job I will be taking a week of vacation at my old job for the first week of my new job and only then quitting the old job. No two weeks notice, no nothing. No employer gives you huge notice in layoffs (at least in the recent rounds) and some places barely give severance. The trust relationship here is 100% broken and it cannot be fixed because in the end I will never be able to afford the legal route to vindicate my rights.
  • iakh 3y ago
    Does that really buy you anything though? If they're willing to rescind offers, they'll be happy to lay you-off a few days into your employment too.
    • twelve40 3y ago
      that would be another level of douchebaggery, although probably not unprecedented
    • mattnewton 3y ago
      This is exactly what happened with the last batch of major tech layoffs.
    • wcunning 3y ago
      That would at least trigger COBRA and unemployment, which having quit and not actually started a new job wouldn’t. That’s a better situation from my perspective.
      • darth_avocado 3y ago
        COBRA is available regardless of whether you quit voluntarily or not. And COBRA isn’t free, you have to pay for it and it is extremely expensive.
  • twelve40 3y ago
    that is wise, as long as you don't piss off your old colleagues as to not be able to get a reference later. or don't care.
• shams93 3y ago
  This is why the Fed and Biden think the economy is doing great they count those 200 job as actual openings not mistakes.
• refurb 3y ago
  Not a lawyer, but I'd be curious if promissory estoppel could be a route to claiming damages by these new employees. I know that if you sign a contract, and then incur a cost in executing it, the other party can be liable for damages even if that protection is no explicit in the contract. At a minimum employees who sold homes, packed up and moved, put down deposits on new rentals should be reimbursed for that cost when the other party fails to follow through with the contract.
  • gnicholas 3y ago
    Promissory estoppel actually applies even when the parties have not signed a contract — it’s based on the ‘promise’ that was made by one party, even in the absence of a binding contract. It does require, as you say, ‘detrimental reliance’ to be triggered. In this case, that should be fairly easy to demonstrate, since anyone who left their job would have done so in reliance on the promise of employment.
    • deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    • seoulbigchris 3y ago
      This. Once in my career I encountered something similar. The first interesting thing I learned about promissory estoppel was that it wasn’t really “law” but rather a legal concept. As such, things are a bit more vague than the typical legal dispute. Secondly, the lawyer told me that it was only possible to take that route if one had not officially signed an employment contract. The reasoning is that once you’ve signed a contract, you’re technically an employee and your claim would be handled in a different manner. But in many jurisdictions, the wronged person would be treated as having been fired at will and would not have much recourse (as opposed to a promissory estoppel claim) The other concepts in play were common sense things, like the company had to made you a reasonable offer, you took reasonable actions based on that promise, and the company knew you were taking those actions. And finally, the “penalty” is often only the documented losses you really incurred which can seem tiny in comparison to the situation and intangible losses. I suspect many of these cases are settled before going to court. IANAL and YMMV
• iancmceachern 3y ago
  Reminder: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32700568 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32700568
• Gelob 3y ago
  I always see their posts on here about hiring lol
• bfung 3y ago
  Not too surprised, there was a CEO handoff (news this past Wed, it's Friday..), so time for "new" CEO to clean house, and I guess this is what he found. Ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37410812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37410812
• hndarlings 3y ago
  Flexport and Smarking are the two most spammy companies I have seen here on HN. Almost every couple of weeks you see their job opening post on the HN front page. Going on for years now. Just saw one from this very company a couple of weeks back.
  • throwawaysleep 3y ago
    I assumed that just meant they were growing quickly.
    • f4c39012 3y ago
      hiring != growing
      • freeAgent 3y ago
        It does mean they’re growing expenses, though.
    • walleeee 3y ago
      that's the intended effect
• ok_coo 3y ago
  Can we stop seeing their job postings on HN every other day now? I don’t know how you don’t get blacklisted after something like this.
  • gundmc 3y ago
    They're a ycombinator company. All of the job postings are.
    • lostlogin 3y ago
      Ah, so ultra-whitelist that crap behaviour then. More constructively, it would seem the perfect time to demonstrate model behaviour.
    • vinay_ys 3y ago
      Why don't the job postings follow the karma system?
      • danpalmer 3y ago
        It’s a “perk” of Ycombinator investment. From what I understand the exposure is supposed to be the same, probably to help boost early stage companies. I’ve wanted to comment on job listings many times, but it’s part of the deal of being on HN. This isn’t just here for fun, it’s here to promote Ycombinator and further their goals.
        • buffet_overflow 3y ago
          I do wish those posts allowed commenting. Would love to get clarification on the kind of role being offered, and see discussion around the company itself. Without that, they feel like an ad and draw similar amounts of interactions from me by default.
          • smeyer 3y ago
            They don’t just feel like an ad, they are an ad. You might not interact with ads (I’m usually similar), but they may still get enough interaction to be worth it to YC.
• vishnugupta 3y ago
  They were one of the darlings of Covid crisis period, portrayed as someone who would fix all the supply chain problems that occurred back in 2020-21. Their founder even made it to the times cover page, he was person of the year I think. I guess it all was a temporary blip, as the incumbents got their act together the new entrants found out the reality, and then the rate hikes made it all worse.
• deleted 3y ago
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• ranting-moth 3y ago
  > I have no ideas why more than 75 people were signed to join. Or why we had over 200 open roles are on our web site. It's pretty messed up that this happened in the first place. But it's another level of ineptitude that even the the CEO has no idea how this happened?
• neilv 3y ago
  > But no way around it, we have had a hiring freeze for months I have no ideas why more than 75 people were signed to join. News reporting (not the protagonist's Tweet) hints at a more plausible explanation than a hiring freeze that was somehow being ignored by everyone involved -- that the person Tweeting is just reneging as part of aggressive moves: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/08/flexport-ceo-ryan-petersen-rescinds-hiring-offers-cuts-office-space.html https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/08/flexport-ceo-ryan-petersen-r... > Two days after returning to run Flexport, founder Ryan Petersen said Friday that his logistics company will rescind 55 offer letters and look to lease out office space across the U.S. as it tries to get its “house in order.”
• vinay_ys 3y ago
  Any company that does this kind of screwup should suffer the consequences. Any reasonably good talent that has multiple opportunities open to them will not choose them after this fiasco. And people have long memories for these kinds of things. When they come back to hire, it will cost them in the form of pay inflation for sub-par talent.
• someonehere 3y ago
  This would explain why I applied for my dream job and never heard back.
• rightisleft 3y ago
  CEO should be fired - this is grossly negligent
• Havoc 3y ago
  Flexport has 3k employees. They're rescinding 55 offers. That's a lot of bad PR for a very small % on payroll
• gadders 3y ago
  Well, I guess we found out what the CEO's word is worth.
• nairboon 3y ago
  How does a founder not know that they are hiring?
  • dtnewman 3y ago
    He left the company and rejoined as CEO yesterday.
    • stefan_ 3y ago
      By left you mean he was executive chairman of the board of course.
      • masukomi 3y ago
        and by "executive chairman of the board" you mean "guy who got paid $$$ to sit around and ignore everything that was going on" of course.
        • danpalmer 3y ago
          The board are often paid, but typically not much. Perhaps pro-rata "market rate" for the sorts of people on boards like this, but with the amount of time being so limited it's not huge sums of money. I'd expect much less than a typical SWE salary, perhaps an order of magnitude. I think the roles are often fulfilled for free. In this case, it was the founder, so his upside is huge already from stock. Call that pay if you like, but I think it's a bit different.
        • prasadjoglekar 3y ago
          That's what he may have done, but the "executive" in the title means he was an officer with authority to actually do stuff on behalf of the company. Unlike non-executive chairmen, whose power generally is limited to hiring and firing the CEO.
        • stefan_ 3y ago
          He staged a coup to get rid of the CEO and reinstate himself so I'm afraid "he was just collecting a bag" can't accurately describe his role on the board. The overall point here being that of course he was aware they would be hiring, and even if he wasn't, it was his job to be aware. But on his first day the guy doesn't even have it in him to write the trite line of "this is wholly my responsibility".
• mellosouls 3y ago
  Contextual discussion from a couple days ago: Flexport CEO resigns a year after joining logistics company (150 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37410812 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37410812
• deleted 3y ago
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• dewey 3y ago
  This is a shitty situation to be in for people who maybe quit their jobs to join, but it's refreshing to see honest and clear communication like this and not a corporate blog post.
  • borroka 3y ago
    Refreshing, like in "somebody else made a mistake, not my fault, I was in the bathroom refreshing myself at the time"? It is quite funny to see how communication is measured on the same scale used for the action, in this case letting go, even before they started, a sizable number of people. But it is the same for politicians, right? "See, they are such great orators, a moving speech like I have rarely heard!", we often read or hear. The problem is that the tweet took 10 minutes, while many, those whose offer was rescinded, must now to work for days, weeks or months to unravel the giant cluster-f that somebody--not the current orator, the one before, even if the current one is the founder and sits on the board--has deployed.
  • galkk 3y ago
    He's literally throwing previous guy (no matter what is the opinion about previous guy) under the bus, there is nothing honest about it. It was (most likely) not the previous CEO who personally decided to hire 75 people, and silently made them offers. And saying that "we had hiring freeze for months" but in next tweet "I've been CEO only for 18 hours". Isn't that CEO job to decide if hiring/firing needs to be done? Who was in charge of the company then? You, but not in the title?
    • FireBeyond 3y ago
      > I've been CEO only for 18 hours ... Who was in charge of the company then? You, but not in the title? Especially considering that before being the CEO he was the ... Executive Chairman of the Board, i.e. the person that the CEO reported to!
  • FireBeyond 3y ago
    > honest and clear "I have no idea how this happened." That's not refreshing.
• talboren 3y ago
  tough one. can’t say how much i don’t envy him as a founder. stay lean, stay humble, appreciate the honesty and feeling bad for folks who got the message
  • masukomi 3y ago
    75 people have (presumably) told their current employers that they're quitting, and moving to somewhere they believe is "better". They are about to have no income, and no health insurance, in a fucking difficult job market where it can take extremely well qualified people months to find positions. "I am deeply sorry to those people who were expecting to join our company..." does not begin to address the level of absolute upheaval he's just caused in 75 people's lives.
    • jeffbee 3y ago
      > a fucking difficult job market ? This is the hottest job market in living memory. Labor economists have run out of ways to describe it. A damp log can get a six-figure signing bonus.
      • a2xd94 3y ago
        Clearly you've not been in a job search and can compare the software job market in 2016-2021 vs now. The market is not 'hot'. Warm, maybe. Lukewarm, definitely.
        • jeffbee 3y ago
          I don't believe in anecdotes. I believe in data. According to the BLS, "Computing infrastructure providers, data processing, web hosting, and related services" sector added 6000 jobs last month and > 30k jobs in the past year. Unemployment among educated professionals stands at 2.2% which is ridiculous.
          • a2xd94 3y ago
            Cool data. Now for the real-life implication and meaning of those nice numbers, for the SW industry : - low unemployment + high employer demand for new positions + high wage growth = hot job market - where the market was in 2016-2021 - low unemployment + low employer demand for new positions + low wage growth = lukewarm job market - where the market was in 2022 - low unemployment + medium employer demand for new positions + low wage growth = warm job market - where the market is currently
• thoughtpalette 3y ago
  That is super messed up.
• keiferski 3y ago
  [I have no idea] why we had over 200 open roles are on our web site. I do always find it odd when a not-megacorp company has dozens of open positions for various departments. Surely they can’t actually be hiring for these jobs simultaneously, and it’s just a hiring strategy to attract talent that might otherwise not be aware the company exists?
  • alex_lav 3y ago
    The frequency that I've seen companies open positions that don't actually exist to "fill the hiring pipeline" is gross. Recruiters and those that lead them should be ashamed of this, and yet I see it all the time.
  • 6ak74rfy 3y ago
    This, plus I’ve constantly seen job ads on LinkedIn from this company.
    • leetrout 3y ago
      On here too. Just saw one a couple weeks ago.
      • iancmceachern 3y ago
        Yeah, they were actually actively posted by YC https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32700568 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32700568
  • bettercallsalad 3y ago
    Is there going to be anyone accountable over this? Ryan doesn’t say and most likely the HR/recruiting under his reporting chain will stay unharmed. It’s amazing how absolutely dry these apologies come out. Everytime a layoff notice comes in there is this usual script. I am yet to see anyone taking meaningful responsibility over it such as CEO paycut or bonus withdrawals.
    • 3y ago
• aomix 3y ago
  Holy moley what a screw up. I can’t believe what I’m reading.
• belligeront 3y ago
  It seems like many companies have recently become more willing to take actions that I view as extremely trust breaking: - Forcing employees who were hired as remote employees to relocate for RTO - Rescinding offers - Layoffs with seemingly little connection to performance What I'm trying to understand is do companies not think these actions will limit their ability to hire in the future? Are they: - Hoping that future candidates have short memories or they can hire new grads who don't have other options? - Calculating that the job market will stay slack for a long time? - The C-suite has short time horizons and thus see these problems as someone else's future problems? - Something else? Obviously companies will do these sorts of things if faced with existential threats, but the recent trend seems far more widespread than this.
  • borroka 3y ago
    "What I'm trying to understand is do companies not think these actions will limit their ability to hire in the future? As I see it: - there is higher supply of talent than demand for talent - offer enough money next time and see all the doubts disappear (come on, there are companies with a terrible reputation that have been around forever and employ tens or even hundreds of thousands of people) - companies need to survive now before thinking about tomorrow, especially a company like Flexport, which appears to be quite fragile from a financial standpoint. The relationship between employees and employers, especially when the latter are big companies, has always been more adversarial than cooperative. In this context, I don't expect my employer's best, and in return I certainly do not give my best. A lesson I learned after having been let go. It has worked fine for me since then.
    • StressedDev 3y ago
      Another thing to consider is the employee might be coming from a worse employer or may take a job because they are really interested in it. Flexport's behavior was not good in this case but I suspect a lot of future employees will still choose to work there if they make attractive offers.
  • lsmeducation 3y ago
    I would look at it more like both sides are players. Playas gonna play. The girl plays, the guy plays. Omar: All in the game It's not like devs aren't gonna jump ship when the cycle shifts back in the other direction. Edit: RTO is a hill I think devs should be prepared to die on. If every dev is not ready to fight for Remote, don't be shocked when it's not even an option as the years go by. Covid gave us a gift, and it's precious. We have to fight to keep it. Remote or Die.
• constantly 3y ago
  They also oversubscribed office space and are actively working to get out of signed leases, or to sublease where that’s not possible, according to a friend over there. Morale is a bit low at the moment with the CEO being ousted, office space being given up, offers rescinded, and RIFs in the horizon.
• kamikaz1k 3y ago
  Short Explainer on the (potential) bloodsport tactics in play.[1] > Amazon's coup against Flexport in the battle for logistics, in 12 months: 1. Dave Clark, 20+ year Amazon vet joins as CEO of Flexport 2. Amazon works out a deal with Shopify to partner on logistics, on the condition that Shopify exits logistics, i.e. sells Deliverr, a notoriously overpriced acquisition and unprofitable division 3. Dave buys Deliverr from Shopify, installs bureaucracyOS at Flexport 4. Dave leaves Flexport, same day Amazon announces its deal with Shopify > Amazon removes Shopify as a fulfillment competitor and severely hobbles Flexport I don’t know if Flexport is big enough to be a threat here, but would be some brutal shit if true. [1] https://twitter.com/kepano/status/1699818506752287055?s=20 https://twitter.com/kepano/status/1699818506752287055?s=20
  • deleted 3y ago
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  • fallingknife 3y ago
    Afaik flexport does mostly freight forwarding which doesn't really compete with Amazon logistics.
    • psunavy03 3y ago
      Logistics is a weird, funny animal where companies compete against different companies in different arenas, and 3PL companies are sometimes also competing against their own suppliers. But yeah, the major forwarders are places like Kuehne + Nagel, DSV, Expeditors, DHL Global Forwarding, DB Schenker, and UPS Supply Chain Solutions.
  • StressedDev 3y ago
    Please do not make or spread these sorts of allegations without providing some VERY strong evidence. The most likely explanation is the new CEO's strategy either did not work or the board and founder felt they had a strategy which would work better or have a better chance of working. Basically, for better or worse, Dave Clark (the old CEO) and Flexport were probably just a poor fit.
  • 3y ago
• ralph84 3y ago
  Maybe not legally, but morally this is a mass layoff without severance. Hopefully people remember if this company tries to hire again.
  • constantly 3y ago
    Will try to remember this when their job postings hit the front page of this website tomorrow morning.
• plaidfuji 3y ago
  Translation (perhaps)? “I found out last week that we had 200 open roles and had signed 75 offers. Upon learning this, I fired the CEO. I regret that I now have to be the one to deliver the bad news.”
  • huevosabio 3y ago
    This sounds plausible, but can't be the only reason why they fired the ceo no?
    • molsongolden 3y ago
      I can't read the full article but The Information[0] reported that the CEO was spending more than the board found reasonable. [0] https://www.theinformation.com/articles/flexport-founder-ousts-ceo-dave-clark-and-top-lieutenants https://www.theinformation.com/articles/flexport-founder-ous...
    • bdcravens 3y ago
      Presumably so, as down-thread, he states that they were overconfident in their growth. (Most of the time) the CEO knows that if the business can't deliver, it will be their head on the chopping block.
• jeffbee 3y ago
  The tweet says they are not offering compensation but I hope the victims of this are not simply adopting the company's unilateral stance on that. Everyone who was harmed by these rescinded offers (because they quit their other job, moved, sold their house, etc) should at a minimum brandish a promissory estoppel claim and see how much money Flexport coughs up to settle it.
  • roflyear 3y ago
    They backtracked, and are now offering some severance, but did not specify how much.
  • rdedev 3y ago
    For international students another trick I've seen from companies is moving the starting date by 5 or 6 months. On F1 visa you only get a set amount of unemployment days (90 days if I remember it right) after which you have to leave the country So those students have to get some job for the time being, work there till it's time to quit and then join "BigCorp". Not many are going to do this since it's too risky, especially now. This is if "BigCorp" is still ready to accept them. I personally know two people who got their joining dates pushed back by 6 months
• bennydog224 3y ago
  Awful look for this company. Imagine international students /H1B holders who turned down other offers to join Flexport, and now may not have enough time to get another offer before needing to permanently leave in 60 days.
  • a2xd94 3y ago
    Or, imagine smart, young Americans trying to make a living in a high cost of living area like the Bay Area, having their life FUBAR'd by a selfish exec. Most likely as they just told their previous employer that they're leaving that company.
    • deleted 3y ago
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    • deleted 3y ago
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• beardyw 3y ago
  What about those who left their previous jobs? Sorry about that?
  • 1letterunixname 3y ago
    "Sucker! You should've bought insurance, disposable peon. Ha-ha-ha." - Mr. "Coke Bottle" David. The externalities of wage theft, surprise costs, and abuse are displaced from the employer and borne by the employee. Frankly, all of those cheated people should form a class-action lawsuit and sue.
    • draw_down 3y ago
      [dead]
• StephenAmar 3y ago
  Last Flexport jobs posting on HN was 19 days ago.
  • bdcravens 3y ago
    I assume the previous CEO had no handle on what was going on with their hiring (as evidenced by the rescinded jobs and 200 jobs on their website despite a hiring freeze), so a founder stepped in, assumed that role, and is trying to clean up that mess.
    • mritun 3y ago
      I’d like to assume that there was no mess to begin with.
      • bdcravens 3y ago
        Always ideal, but he'd likely still be CEO if there wasn't (and related to far more than just hiring)
  • adw 3y ago
    I feel like Flexport should lose their right to post wanted ads here permanently over this. It’d be a largely symbolic punishment, let’s be real, but unethical behavior like this shouldn’t be allowed to pass.
    • roflyear 3y ago
      Oh, good luck with that. I'd make the bet you'll see a post from them by the end of the year. Didn't they remove commenting on those posts a year or so ago? I used to remember being able to comment on them, but I don't think you can anymore...
      • foota 3y ago
        I don't think I've ever seen them commentable (going back 6 or 7 years) Edit: yikes 9 years
• deleted 3y ago
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• willio58 3y ago
  My favorite part of this is we won’t see flexport hiring as spam on HN for a while :)
• game_the0ry 3y ago
  Am I the only one who thinks you should not give a 2 week notice to your current employer when you get an offer, so that in the event your offer gets rescinded, you still have your current job? I get a ton of push back when I suggest this, but am I being unreasonable when I am trying to look out for my own interests when I know my employer wont? My employer can weather a few bad months, but some people can't lose income for more than one month. Or are most employees are too scared to piss off some people they might not ever see again anyway?
  • colordrops 3y ago
    Companies don't give you two weeks when they let you go. Why should you give them shit?
    • sharkweek 3y ago
      Because unfortunately the power dynamic is such that people will know you quit on the spot and it’ll burn networking opportunities down the road. Less an issue at a big enough company though so there’s that.
      • Apocryphon 3y ago
        Maybe they won’t remember. Maybe they’ll think you had a valid personal reason.
        • moate 3y ago
          Maybe you’ll go the rest of your life never finding out how they felt because of the myriad reasons you won’t run into those people. Giving notice is risk aversion.
          • Apocryphon 3y ago
            As someone who’s gone out of their way to give three weeks’ notice, I’m not one to test the limits- though I’ve realized extra time given is hardly appreciated. But I’m not about to condemn others for taking risks against an uncaring corporate structure.
• infrawhispers 3y ago
  I find it very interesting how he (Ryan Petersen) bragged about Flexport having $1B in cash [2] but now implies that things are tight so they cannot pay any form of severance[1]. Don’t let the SV propaganda fool you. The implicit contract betweeen white collar workers and employers has been gone for quite some time. Employees should always prioritize what is best for them. [1] https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1700114432792363016?s=46 https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1700114432792363016?s=4... [2] https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1700108412024127569?s=46 https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1700108412024127569?s=4...
  • water-data-dude 3y ago
    They deleted the post [1], does anyone have a screenshot?
    • bombcar 3y ago
      Check the various archive sites, someone may have grabbed it.
    • madars 3y ago
      One was on Google Cache and another was on internet archive. Both are September 8, 2023: https://archive.is/t2Wsr https://archive.is/t2Wsr - "We're going to help them find jobs. Can't just give out cash tho." https://archive.is/RAWQp https://archive.is/RAWQp - "Flexport has $1B in net cash. But we're far from profitable right now and will be laser focused on profitable growth from now on."
      • leetrout 3y ago
        747s are expensive, yo!
  • granshaw 3y ago
    What is this implicit contract you speak of?
    • 3y ago
• bdcravens 3y ago
  I assume Dave Clark had a generous exit package. He should waive that compensation, and since these 75 fires are apparently his mistake, that money should be used to compensate them.
  • jonahbenton 3y ago
    Should be top comment.
  • StressedDev 3y ago
    I assume Dave Clark is the former CEO. Why should he pay? What if he thought that they needed these roles? What if the new CEO disagrees and they both have valid points? At this point, the new CEO (who is also the founder) has to take responsibility for his decision.
    • bdcravens 3y ago
      He was recently replaced (ie, strongly encouraged to resign), ostensibly for poor performance of the company. It's all about accountability related to his leadership, including hiring decisions.
      • StressedDev 3y ago
        Dave Clark either resigned, was pushed out or was fired. It's hard to see how he did not suffer consequences or was not held accountable. Also, you need to establish that Dave Clark performed poorly and should have known the company could not afford these jobs. We cannot prove he performed poorly because we do not have enough information. Claiming he performed poorly because he left/was fired does not work because lots of people are unjustly fired. Even if the firing was in some ways justified, it is very possible that this is not a black and white situation. It could be he had a vision, executed on his vision, did a good job delivering it, and then the board and founder decided they did not like it. This does not mean his vision would have failed. It just means the board and founder thought getting rid of Dave Clark and taking a different course would probably lead to a better outcome. Your basic argument does not work because you assume Dave Clark deserved to get fired and that he somehow knew these 75 offers were bad for the company. You do not prove this. My guess is Dave Clark did his best, thought he was taking the company in the right direction, and was let go because the board and founder disagreed. I do not think punishing him is justified because it is not clear he did anything wrong.
• pg_bot 3y ago
  If you negotiate an employment contract make sure that there is some sort of break up fee in case a company tries to pull this sort of nonsense on you. There's no reason why someone should be able to upend your life without due compensation. Accepting a job offer is not something that is done on a whim for most people, so it should be fairly easy to add in a clause that states "If this offer is rescinded for any reason after it has been signed by both parties, {{COMPANY}} agrees to pay 9 months of the negotiated salary to {{EMPLOYEE}}"
  • CapstanRoller 3y ago
    With what leverage? Software devs have no union to back them up, and in a tight job market there are many desperate candidates who would sign the employment agreement as-is within minutes of receiving it.
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  • turquoisevar 3y ago
    In 99% of the cases the candidate has exactly 0 leverage to negotiate this and the person on the other end will be laugh at this notion. Instead of weird fantasies about power that doesn’t exist, how about we acknowledge the skewed relationship between a(n) (prospective) employee and an employer like the rest of the civilized world and do away with “fire at will”. If something like this happens in the EU, then it’s likely the company would at least be on the hook to pay the salary for the duration of the initial contract that was signed (often 6 month minimum). I say likely, because of minor variations between countries, but it’s a given in most countries.
    • theGnuMe 3y ago
      If only workers could organize or something…
      • nitwit005 3y ago
        The union isn't going to care about someone who never worked for the company.
• dbg31415 3y ago
  Rescinding offers is so filthy and unforgivable.
• piuantiderp 3y ago
  Time to jump from Flexport, sinking ship
• 1letterunixname 3y ago
  And now Flexport is a smoking crater no one wants to work at.
• roflyear 3y ago
  Is this the same flexport.com that if you go to RIGHT NOW they have 107 job openings???
• _huayra_ 3y ago
  Is there a website to track instances where companies screw over employees (e.g. laying off without severance, rescinded offers, etc)? This would usually come up during one's due diligence of the company when evaluating a job prospect, but it would be nice to have a list of flagrant violators of norms (i.e. of at least doing right by employees, even if the business is not doing the best).
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• tock 3y ago
  > We're going to help them find jobs. Can't just give out cash tho. CEO of a company with $1B in cash after they "accidentally" hired 75 people who were due to start on Monday. Source: 1. https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1700114432792363016 https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1700114432792363016 2. https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1700108412024127569 https://twitter.com/typesfast/status/1700108412024127569
  • StressedDev 3y ago
    Your post is misleading. The new Flexport CEO said "Flexport is rescinding a bunch of signed offer letters for people who were starting as soon as this Monday." Note that not all of the 75 people were going to start on Monday. Only 1 or more people would start on Monday.