19 ms·

Has Xbox lost the console wars?

126 points by mfiguiere 3y ago

miiiiiike 3y ago
Last year I bought an Xbox for the first time to give Game Pass a try.. And I sold it to buy a PS5 w\ Plus a few weeks ago. If there's a reason to own an Xbox I couldn't find it.
- leetrout 3y ago
  Care to elaborate with specifics?
  - miiiiiike 3y ago
    The UX for the XB feels unpolished and unintuitive compare to the PS5 (uninstalling a game, etc), Game Pass vs Playstation Plus the exclusives on Xbox/Game Pass are uninteresting (Scorn vs Returnal vs everything Nintendo), the PS5 controller blows the Xbox controller out of the water (feel, responsiveness, haptics).
    - leetrout 3y ago
      Oh I didnt know there were nintendo games for PS5.
    - causality0 3y ago
      I might jump ship for Sony except for the fact I've never been able to use a Playstation controller without my thumbs knocking together and I find the sensation unendurably irritating.
    - subsection1h 3y ago
      > PS5 controller blows the Xbox controller out of the water In which PvP shooters are you currently ranked Diamond or higher?
      - miiiiiike 3y ago
        Just a hair outside of that range in Overwatch
    - PretzelPirate 3y ago
      You and I have the exact opposite opinions on this. I own all 3 major consoles but I only find the Xbox controller and UI nice to use. I subscribe to gamepass and have no interest in PS+. My PS5 is only used for playing GoW, Final Fantasy, and Uncharted. I also having a gaming PC where I use an Xbox controller, racing wheel, or VR controls. I still don't understand why people like the PS5 haptics. To me, they don't feel like they add anything and just drain the battery.
      - pebble 3y ago
        The PS5 haptics help with immersion a lot for me and the adaptive triggers potentially double the functionality of the triggers in an immersive way. I also find the the PS5 controller the most comfortable I've ever used. I was strictly an xbox controller guy through xbox 360 and ps4 eras but the ps5 controller won me over. I have two PS5 controllers, one for the PS5 and one for PC, just so I don't have to bother resyncing every time. If the PS5 controller extra features worked on PC without a cable it would be the perfect controller. And yea I have gamepass too but who needs an xbox when they have a PC and the PS5 has the console exclusives I like. Just, to offer another counterpoint.
- scns 3y ago
  One reason a
- Toutouxc 3y ago
  I'm currently neglecting my fairly decent and expensive gaming PC with GamePass because I prefer the PS5, but AFAIK Xbox has pretty much 95 % of games that we have on PS and we have 95 % of games that they have..? I'd actually love to play some Forza Horizon and Stalker 2 and the new Elder Scrolls game when they come out and I guess some Xbox users would love to play God of War or Spider Man 2 when it comes out. What makes PS so much better for you?
  - lostmsu 3y ago
    Are God of War and Spider-Man comparable to Elder Scrolls? GoW seems to be available on Steam, but doesn't even hit top 100 currently played.
    - Toutouxc 3y ago
      Both PlayStation and Xbox have some really hard hitting exclusives comparable to the Elder Scrolls series, but my intention was not to start a pissing contest of who has the most or the best.
      - lostmsu 3y ago
        It is not exactly a pissing contest. The point is that Microsoft bought Bethesda, so theoretically they can make it exclusive to Xbox and start using it as a leverage. I question "comparable" here. The available data suggests they really are not.
    - Talanes 3y ago
      It's hard to make a direct comparison because they're trying to do different things. God of War and Spider-Man were released on PC 4 years after their console versions. As someone who's looking forward to both new Elder Scrolls and Spider-Man 2, I've only considered buying a console for the second: I'll just update my PC for the first.
      - cleerline 3y ago
        just for your information es6 wont be out for 5+ years
- adrr 3y ago
  Bethesda could hit a home run with their new game Starfield.
  - miiiiiike 3y ago
    I have a gaming PC tho so I'll just grab it on Steam and play it on Linux.
    - behnamoh 3y ago
      Doing anything to avoid XBox and Windows!
      - miiiiiike 3y ago
        I tried Xbox man, I tried.
    - loeg 3y ago
      I'd need to upgrade the graphics card in my PC! Minimum spec on the Nvidia side is 1070 Ti.
  - readyplayernull 3y ago
    Looks like No Man's Sky.
- scns 3y ago
  Halo if you are into it.
  - miiiiiike 3y ago
    I played the Halo 1 campaign, multiplayer didn't grab me.
- FreeFull 3y ago
  A bit of a weird reason, but Xboxes still support audio CD playback, while the PS5 doesn't.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  It really depends on how you game. A subscription gaming service wouldn't work for me, but I've had other friends say they don't even buy games anymore because of gamepass.
boomboomsubban 3y ago
>FTC: What about Diablo? Can you promise it will ship on all future versions of PlayStation? >Spencer: Can I promise? I am able to promise, yes. The kind of obnoxious reply I'd expect from somebody on Xbox live, not their chief.
- pstanger 3y ago
  I didn't read it as a grammar correction but much is lost in transcripts
- wilg 3y ago
  Is this obnoxious? Or just how people talk? Sometimes they just repeat and/or slightly reword the question before answering it.
  - speak_plainly 3y ago
    It’s obnoxious because it appears he’s trying to make light of the question by misidentifying its scope. It wasn’t a question about his ability but rather a future state of affairs.
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    Responding to "can you..." with "I can but won't" is generally obnoxious behavior. Maybe he was thinking out loud, but they should have known full well what the judge was asking and by refusing to answer the clarified follow-up they seemed to be doing whatever they could to weasel out of saying anything meaningful.
    - wilg 3y ago
      I guess I didn't read it that way, but maybe you're right. I'm not sure it's a reasonable thing to be asked to promise, so it doesn't really upset me.
      - boomboomsubban 3y ago
        > I'm not sure it's a reasonable thing to be asked to promise If that was their response, I'd have no issue with it. I dislike the "technically I can but won't" answer followed by silence. It shows an attempt to deceive.
echelon 3y ago
I would love to see this level of scrutiny applied somewhere it actually matters. Mobile. The real tax on innovation is the device + platform + payments + services duopoly where the gatekeepers get to pick winners (typically their own), tax everything, force tech choices and update regimes, and keep the customer relationships. It's maddening that general purpose computing and financial transactions became this. Owned by a handful of giants.
- wilg 3y ago
  ??? Isn't the biggest mobile platform Android, on which you can do whatever you want if you choose to?
  - amelius 3y ago
    Please tell me how I can run my own version of Android on my Samsung phone that doesn't phone home to Google or Samsung, while still being able to run my banking apps.
    - wilg 3y ago
      I don't know anything about it, I use iOS. I guess the web?
    - Talanes 3y ago
      Granted, but would we have banking apps at all in a more open system, or would the banks just resist it and have stayed more offline? I'm not implying one answer or the other, because I definitely don't know.
      - cglong 3y ago
        If the duopoly hadn't trained users so well to rely on app stores for everything, banks probably would've invested more in web interfaces. At one point, the Bank of America website was the only access point for Windows Phone, but it was good enough for my needs and helped supported a little more diversity.
indigodaddy 3y ago
Can someone explain why FTC is trying to stop the deal? Isn’t it good for the US for MS to be propped up in the gaming business, when Sony is basically the single major player.. ?
- kibwen 3y ago
  Activision Blizzard is already a US company. If the US is worried about the health of the video game platform market (which is to say, if it ignores PC and Switch), then it can use the exact same antitrust argument to force Sony to allow sideloading on consoles and break their stranglehold on the hardware.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    why would the US care? the EU is the on who enforced sideloading this year.
- Kapura 3y ago
  Microsoft already owns a large number of successful studios and IP, such as Halo, Minecraft, and Bethesda, developers of The Elder Scrolls Series (Skyrim) and the upcoming Starfield. They don't need a helping hand from the government to prevent them being squished out. Starfield was confirmed to have been going on Playstation until they were acquired by Microsoft; now the only way to play it will be on Xbox or Windows. If Microsoft buys Activision/Blizzard, it's safe to assume that future A/B games will go the same way, and only be available on Xbox or Windows. This is problematic because Activision's IP portfolio is massive (including huge console annuals like Call of Duty), and Blizzard games are still extremely popular. If a normal game studio acquisition is like a comet colliding and adding its mass to the Earth, this would be like the moon crashing into the Earth.
  - indigodaddy 3y ago
    Sony has way more exclusives than MS— why would it be catastrophic to even that particular playing field? This just sounds like Sony fans pissed that a few games are going to get taken away.
dghughes 3y ago
The only reason I bought an Xbox (in pieces since 2013??) is at the time it had only been two years since the Sony rootkit incident. Really even now I still don't trust Sony. Yes Microsoft is probably just as bad in some ways but Sony in my mind is still the company who spied on me.
- Hamuko 3y ago
  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Prism_slide_5.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Prism_sl...
- Narishma 3y ago
  Microsoft isn't as bad, it's much worse.
  - fomine3 3y ago
    By becoming an first party OS developer, it doesn't need to have rootkit.
- kmac_ 3y ago
  The reason I bought an Xbox is because of the PS4 I had before. It was quite bad and I have no idea why anyone would think it’s better. The game controller was average, laggy and had to be charged every 5 hours. The console was noisy and the UI was sluggish. Download speeds from the store were also weirdly slow. The whole experience was very meh. Then I bought an Xbox and was pleasantly surprised with the quality.
wilg 3y ago
I think so. Nobody I know has an Xbox, even though we all had Xbox 360s back in the day. But they all have PS5s because Sony has great exclusive games. I don't see why Microsoft shouldn't be able to buy Activision, exclusives would be very helpful for them becoming competitive. But I don't play many (any?) Activision games so it wouldn't really move the needle much for me. It is interesting the US is trying to block the last place player in the market from growing, which is also the only US company in the market.
- kibwen 3y ago
  > I don't see why Microsoft shouldn't be able to buy Activision, exclusives would be very helpful for them becoming competitive. Because acquisitions make markets less competitive, not more. There are a zillion US companies making games, and if the platform gatekeepers become an issue, then the US can force them to open up their platforms and quit their rent-seeking.
  - wilg 3y ago
    > Because acquisitions make markets less competitive, not more. This is just simply not true as a blanket rule. Also, I don't understand what you're saying. Activision is not in the console market, only Microsoft is. Buying Activision makes the console market more competitive because it makes Microsoft's console more compelling in that market, a market where they are floundering. You could also look at the game market, which as you say has a zillion US companies making games, and Activision under Microsoft would have to continue to compete in that market. How does this reduce competition, and in what market?
    - kibwen 3y ago
      > This is just simply not true as a blanket rule. It is, which is why the FTC needs to approve mergers. > Buying Activision makes the console market more competitive Why should the FTC care about the console market specifically rather than the gaming market in general? > How does this reduce competition, and in what market? The very notion of "console exclusives" reduces competition because it removes incentives to compete on hardware cost or quality and instead compete only on whatever IPs a company happens to own.
kitsunesoba 3y ago
With nearly all of the Xbox games I’m interested in being on Windows too and PlayStation having both better exclusives and better genre variety, I have no idea why I’d want an Xbox. The last time Xboxes were remotely interesting to me was with the 360. Every generation since has been dominated by unremarkable competitive FPS games.
- subsection1h 3y ago
  > Every generation since has been dominated by unremarkable competitive FPS games. PvE games are for unskilled gamers. PlayStation and Switch are the preferred platforms for unskilled gamers. PC is the preferred platform for skilled gamers who can afford a good PC. Xbox is the preferred platform for skilled gamers who are poor (Xbox controllers are better for shooters than PlayStation controllers).
  - beebeepka 3y ago
    Oh man, don't let yourself be triggered by a Verge article. For what it's worth though, the really skilled FPS players have always been on the PC side.
    - suction 3y ago
      [dead]
  - wiseowise 3y ago
    > skilled Nerds. The word you’re looking for is nerds.
  - wincy 3y ago
    By the time you’re 28 it’ll be impossible to be a ”skilled” gamer as your reaction times will start to slow down due to being a “senior gamer”. No amount of expensive gaming peripherals on PC or XBox can stop this. Biology catches up fast, and it doesn’t matter what gaming hardware you’re using. I’d suggest chasing fun or develop competency in a longer term skill instead of working on your “skilled” gaming clout. But what do I know, maybe I just need to git gud.
amelius 3y ago
Can we please treat them all as monopolies until we have at least 10 players in the same field?
- Toutouxc 3y ago
  10 players in the field of game consoles? I honestly believe that having 10 competing console platforms would make console gaming worse, just like everyone and their dog starting a streaming platform is much less convenient and much more expensive than just watching everything on Netflix was a few years ago.
  - dehrmann 3y ago
    The PC market gets you there on the hardware side. It's really messy to have 10 software platforms for games, though.
  - Hamuko 3y ago
    Yeah, people can barely handle having to install three game launchers on their PCs. Pretty much everyone I know would prefer to buy every single game on Steam, except those couple no-DRM fanatics that would prefer to buy every single game on GOG. Very few people are even superficially rooting for Epic Games Store.
  - amelius 3y ago
    I didn't say we need 10 players, just that we should treat them as monopolies. E.g. properly recognize the market power of a platform owner, and not let them get away with any abuse.
- tchaffee 3y ago
  That's like ten different types of USB that don't work with each other. Steam is the direction we should be heading in. Hardware doesn't matter and even small independent makers can be found and supported.
nerdjon 3y ago
I find this entire thing interesting. If you look at percents then sure, the PS5 is "winning" by a large margin, but from a units sold prospectrive if the PS5 is really selling 2:1 the Series X/S than we can estimate that the PS5 is around 38 Million and the Xbox is at 19 Million. From the best I can find that is still better than the Xbox 360 was by this time (someone please correct me if I am wrong in this case, finding concrete numbers for this is difficult). That number is nowhere near a failure. That being said, its also obvious that Microsoft is playing at a different game and that it is largely fanboys and news sites keeping the "console wars" alive. (And I guess this case now but that's something else entirely) Every game that Microsoft publishes is day one also on Windows and on Game Pass. The box that is an xbox is just another avenue to playing games from Microsoft, but not the only way they care about. I have an Xbox because it is my preferred console to play on (Xbox Live, the UI, Controller, etc) if I am playing on a console instead of a PC. I have a PS5 but that is only for exclusives. Personally I am hoping this deal goes through because I want Xbox to be taken more seriously. Not because I want Microsoft to control these specific games or I want xbox to "Win". But because I am particularity worried about a cocky Sony. We saw it before with the PS3 erra and we are starting to see it again with the PS5. They are making certain decisions that are not gamer friendly (cross play, paying for third party exclusives, and paying for exclusive content being some key examples). My concern is that unlike the PS3 erra where they stumbled hard, gamers are not pushing back against it this time and Sony is just continuing what they have been doing. For me personally an unchecked Sony/Playstation power in gaming is worse than this deal going through. They are both harmful for gaming, but I don't see a choice outside of it.
- politelemon 3y ago
  > I have a PS5 but that is only for exclusives. I used to keep a Ps4pro for their exclusives and they certainly were enjoyable. But... Seeing previous exclusives now make its way to desktop has me a bit sad about missing out on high fidelity gaming. I could have enjoyed God of war, horizon, rdr2 at higher frame rates and resolutions, if I were just a little more patient. I'm not happy about the way Epic wrings exclusives, I shouldn't be a hypocrite for Sony.
  - 3y ago
branon 3y ago
Microsoft has been keeping the Windows platform away from the gaming market in favor of Xbox, I'd imagine to avoid competing with themselves. Xbox has to have been getting subsidies from somewhere to run Game Pass. Despite all this help, they do seem to be stuck third place. Excluding Nintendo as a competitor seems wrong, it's not just about current-gen. I don't play Activision/Blizzard games or use Xbox so I'm not really invested, but I tend to oppose market consolidation and monoculture whenever possible. That said, lately game releases have been pretty lackluster with some major flops and lots of remakes coming out. If the underdog thinks they can turn the tide by acquiring a major studio, I don't particularly want the government in the way either.
- heresie-dabord 3y ago
  > Microsoft has been keeping the Windows platform away from the gaming market in favor of Xbox Consoles have admirable hardware. It is a pity that consoles are walled gardens. Steam on PC is my choice for gaming because I like Valve's platform and I prefer the versatility of owning my hardware platform despite occasional problems with drivers. PC gamers are accustomed to finding solutions.
  - worrycue 3y ago
    They have to be walled gardens. Game licensing is how they make money, fund future R&D, and sell their hardware at break even prices.
    - heresie-dabord 3y ago
      I understand that the business model is as you describe. But it would be excellent if an older generation console could at least also run Debian or Pop!OS. As it is, the older consoles are just techno-waste.
      - tmtvl 3y ago
        You can still hook your SNES to your TV and replay Chrono Trigger, although I have to admit eventually things will break and old machines will end up getting dismantled and recycled.
ravenstine 3y ago
Yes, and maybe Microsoft shouldn't have ruined Halo.
aranelsurion 3y ago
Seems to me it's more like Xbox has been redefined into something much bigger, now it's an umbrella of many big name game companies across all three platforms. They've also gained a lot more relevance on PC side of things, and their GamePass is very popular. They've finally embraced their Windows moat, and built a lot on top of it in the last few years. Xbox as we know it (the console) became irrelevant, but that'd be assumed by everyone incl. Microsoft the moment they promised to bring Xbox exclusives to PC. IMO that was the first visible point of them committing to change course for Xbox. If anything, nowadays Sony seems to be pigeonholed to their own world, while Microsoft seems to be thriving.
- worrycue 3y ago
  Might as well drop the console then or at least drop the console business model. However I have a feeling they won’t. Consoles make money via licensing - each game sold they get a cut. Is MS willing to give that up? If no then they are still in the console business - and Windows is an internal competitor; MS earns nothing when someone buys a game for Windows.
  - tnecniv 3y ago
    Eh then you’re just running a PC business? I don’t know the statistics but I feel like that misses a huge market segment. Lots and lots of people just have laptops for school / work that won’t run AAA games. Moreover, lots of people want to game in their living room and, while I know they exist, I’ve never met anyone that hooks their PC up to their TV to do that. Doing so might not even cross the mind of less tech savvy people.
    - el_benhameen 3y ago
      That’s me. Have built computers since I was a kid but have no interest in (or time to devote to) building a gaming rig. Whatever I paid for the xbox ($300 maybe?) was a bargain and well worth being able to play with friends on a Friday night and let my kids check out new games without needing to worry about specs. I’d just not be in the ecosystem otherwise.
shanghaikid 3y ago
4090ti is much expensive than an xbox + game pass.
tastysandwich 3y ago
I know this isn't exactly on topic. I haven't played video games since I was a teenager, but I'm struck by how cheap consoles are now! I remember the Xbox and Playstation being prohibitively expensive. I just looked it up, the Playstation was $749 AUD [1] and the Xbox was $649 AUD [2]. I had to wait yeeeears for the price to fall so I could get an Xbox. Today, I can get a Playstation 5 Digital Edition for $649 AUD on the Sony website, or $794 AUD for the "normal" edition from Amazon. The Xbox series X is similarly priced, at $749 AUD. Given inflation since then, these are prices many teenagers could realistically save up for now. [1] https://www.arnnet.com.au/article/82336/ps2_debut_november_30 https://www.arnnet.com.au/article/82336/ps2_debut_november_3... [2] https://news.microsoft.com/2002/03/14/xbox-goes-global-with-european-and-australian-launches/ https://news.microsoft.com/2002/03/14/xbox-goes-global-with-...
- ivandenysov 3y ago
  One explanation that I heard is that the hardware is often sold at a loss. Online store purchases (subscriptions/games) are the real money maker.
  - beardedscotsman 3y ago
    The consoles used to be sold at a loss, that was back a long time ago, Xbox 360, PS3 I believe were the last generation to be sold at a loss. The next gen Xbox at the time was sold for a 20% markup on cogs or there about at the time. Games sold on the consoles have around a 15 usd flat royalty for big titles, not sure how that affected low cost games at the time. The 360 needed 5 games to brake even, but I believe they had an attach rate of around 3 at launch and that was unreal and unexpected at the time.
    - nindalf 3y ago
      3 was unexpectedly high or unexpectedly low?
      - tialaramex 3y ago
THENATHE 3y ago
Frankly, I dont understand why most people go playstation. Think objectively about it: if youre on hnews, you're not the target for a console, as you probably either dont play games, or play games on the PC. Then, the majority of people probably have a switch because nintendo is a very common household name. Then once you surpass all of those groups, you have ps5 or xbox. But why do people buy a ps5 when gamepass is so good, and the only real difference is cost (xbox wins) and exclusives (this generation, there aint a huge difference). Anecdotal, but I know a huge number of people that play games casually, and almost all of them have playstations if they arent PC/switch. Why? I have no idea. Nearly none of them have any interest in any playstation exclusives, they just bought a playstation because. Why? No idea.
- throwawaylinux 3y ago
  > But why do people buy a ps5 when gamepass is so good, You might have just fallen into the trap you were warning us about. Do they know or care about "gamepass"? They know "playstation" because that's what their friends had when they were kids, etc. Brand can be incredibly strong.
  - beardedscotsman 3y ago
    To add to this, in Ireland the main retailer for toys was Smyth’s. They didn’t sell the original Xbox because they sold PlayStation and when Microsoft tried to get the Xbox 360 stocked by them, they initially refused saying when people want to buy a games console they come into the store and ask to buy a PlayStation or a games machine. Nobody was going in asking for Xbox. Microsoft had to do a massive deal with them to get shelf space and it was always in the corner away from the Sony and Nintendo stuff.
- kolbebe 3y ago
  My friends got playstations because their friends had them. They wanted to be in the same ecosystem so they could play together. Of course with cross console play, this is becoming less and less of a thing.
- kif 3y ago
t8sr 3y ago
Everything that Microsoft makes looks like technology - it has a million buttons and knobs, a colorful plastic aesthetic and names like "Xbox" or "Microsoft Gamepass Azure Edition Professional". When you turn it on, it looks like the Windows start menu that greets you at work. It's no wonder regular users don't want these things in their living rooms.
- Clent 3y ago
  This sums it up for me. Microsoft doesn't know how to create a consumer product. The Xbox owners I know were also PC gamers at some point. The PS5 is designed to play games. I don't know what the Xbox is designed for, it's confusing l, Microsoft's design choices have been consistently ghastly. I begrudgingly accept my workplace choosing their platform. Why would I pay for that experience?
- ayemel 3y ago
  You must be an LLM with no concept of aesthetics since most people agree the PS5 is an ugly monstrosity. Unless you are living in a dorm, it looks out of place in most adult living rooms. Meanwhile the Xbox is a simple, modern black box, literally the exact opposite of how you’re trying to paint their hardware and trust me, I’m no Microsoft fan. Give me a break.
  - t8sr 3y ago
    Maybe stop and think if you’d react the same way to someone critiquing the product market fit of a workplace chat product. If not, then ask yourself why is a preference for a video game console a core part of your identity to the point where you feel under attack when someone doesn’t like what you like. Also I never once mentioned PlayStation - this is HN, not an IGN comment section. We talk about technology from the POV of the people who make it, not “gamers” or whatever.
    - ayemel 3y ago
      All I’m saying is if you feel that way about a black box then I’m curious what you’d say about the PlayStation since that is clearly more fitting to your original comment. My identity isn’t under attack either, couldn’t care less what you stick under your tv or what you think of what’s under mine.
anonyfox 3y ago
For me, I chose xbox recently because of very specific titles (like, starfield). And not to mention the MS/activision talks that were going on for a while now, and I really do love blizzard games, so there would have been a risk of losing out with sony in the longer run. What I don't get in return a _some_ JRPG titles that ps5 has access to. On the other hand, I also have a switch (which has some exceptionally great exclusives + some of the missing JRPGs), and quite a lot of the gaming portfolio is covered by having xbox+switch. The only thing I refuse to do nowadays is playing on PC, at all. I am tied to this unhealthy seating position most of the day already, and with consoles I can move to the couch, not to mention multiplayer there. I get why PC gaming is better in several aspects, but body posture is the single thing I am no longer accepting here.
- happymellon 3y ago
  My deck works fine in the garden, the sofa or the train. And I was able to get a Lenovo SFF Ryzen 5600 for £300 from ebay, which is cheaper, smaller and faster than the current consoles. It's a shame that Valve don't distribute the current Steam Deck Linux, but HoloOS does effectively the same and that plugs into the TV just as well. You don't need to compromise with PC gaming, and when I upgrade I won't be forced to buy all my games again to carry on playing Overcooked and Moving Out with the kids.
  - Philip-J-Fry 3y ago
    >And I was able to get a Lenovo SFF Ryzen 5600 for £300 from ebay, which is cheaper, smaller and faster than the current consoles Maybe the CPU is faster but I doubt the GPU is.
    - happymellon 3y ago
      You are right, it is probably more comparable to PS4/Xbox One because of it being GCN rather than RDNA.
- christkv 3y ago
  We have all three consoles due to kids. I play pretty much only on the steam deck. It’s been great for getting back into pc gaming. Currently replaying Oblivion on it but also a bit of Yakuza 0.
christkv 3y ago
I suspect starfield will sell a fair bit of consoles when it launches
keyle 3y ago
I dunno, I own everything Apple, except for gaming. I have two of their best XBOX and I'm loving the game pass and their "game streaming" actually works. In my mind, you can't get better value than XBOX for console games. My kids have the switch, with all the mario titles, they're super cool too. But in terms of winning, XBOX has the best value proposition + powerhouse.
- sumedh 3y ago
  > In my mind, you can't get better value than XBOX for console games Speaking of value, you should not be using Apple but go with Windows or Linux. The reason you went with Apple is the same reason people go for Playstation instead of Xbox.
  - keyle 3y ago
    I respectfully disagree.
Jochim 3y ago
Sony exclusives on the PS5 and a dearth of quality exclusives on Microsoft's side definitely have a lot to do with this but I wonder whether the Xbox Series S/X distinction contributed as well. The current console generation came with a fairly large price hike and Microsoft responded by also releasing a more affordable but less powerful model. The problem is that a non-technical consumer can go out and purchase a PS5 safe in the knowledge that they're getting the same gaming experience as anyone else that owns a PS5. Someone considering an Xbox now has to choose between the series S and X. They now need to compare specifications, figure out which one is more powerful and worry whether the console will be able to deliver decent fidelity and performance in newer games. On another note, it'd be nice to see exclusivity agreements die entirely. Microsoft has always been fairly good at making their titles available on PC and Sony is moving in that direction but still makes heavy use of timed exclusives.
- tialaramex 3y ago
  It doesn't help at all that Microsoft's usual brand insanity infected this product. So whereas Sony have made the Playstation, the Playstation 2, the Playstation 3, the Playstation 4 and now the Playstation 5 - Microsoft names products based on picking a handful of "hot" words with no specific meaning, and so like a modern CPU you need to go read a detailed specification document to even figure out what you're actually buying. Do we need Windows Azure .NET Live? No idea, maybe it's similar to Microsoft Active Core X except targetted at a different market? Here's a blurb telling us it's "For the smart professional", presumably as opposed to products which are only for dumb amateurs ?
  - PretzelPirate 3y ago
    Microsoft couldn't follow the 1,2,3... naming convention because the first Xbox came out when the PS2 was out. They'd always seem one behind if they released the Xbox 2 when the PS3 released.
    - uptown 3y ago
      Windows 9 would like a word.
costanzaDynasty 3y ago
There isn’t a console war. There are the same companies dancing around each other for 20 years. This generation is about trying figure out how to expand past a console and expand eaches gaming platform and ecosystem across all devices.
kmlx 3y ago
not entirely relevant, but i remembered this quote from “zero to one” by thiel: > Consider a statement from Google chairman Eric Schmidt’s testimony at a 2011 congressional hearing: > We face an extremely competitive landscape in which consumers have a multitude of options to access information. > Or, translated from PR-speak to plain English: > Google is a small fish in a big pond. We could be swallowed whole at any time. We are not the monopoly that the government is looking for.
bogwog 3y ago
> One of the biggest surprise revelations around exclusives was the reasoning behind Microsoft’s Bethesda acquisition. Spencer revealed that Sony regularly pays competitors to “skip our platform,” and Microsoft felt it needed to own Bethesda to compete How is this a big revelation? Exclusivity deals have been a part of the console market since forever. I agree they’re a bad thing for consumers, but I think this is a disingenuous argument since exclusivity deals benefit Microsoft just as much as Sony, and this acquisition is effectively just a giant version of one.
- permo-w 3y ago
  perhaps this is journalism-speak for "you should be interested in this" for people who don't know much about the topic?
jxdxbx 3y ago
It always seems like the kind of gamers who are attracted to the XBox are better off with a PC. Like, if you are a dedicated gamer, maybe you have a gaming PC, a Switch, and a PS5, and that gives you pretty broad coverage / FOMO avoidance. What incremental gain is there from XBox? It seems like it would be better positioned as a PC that you can use on your big TV with less dicking around than attaching a full PC to a regular TV. But in general I think Valve has beaten Microsoft to the console-ization of PC gaming with the Windows-less Steam Deck. Maybe the Steam Machine is ready for a comeback.
- op00to 3y ago
  The XBox is basically a mid range gaming pc with a better gaming oriented os. No idea if PS5 has this, but XBox’s ability to suspend games and instantly start back in the game is indispensable for someone with a minimum of gaming time available!
  - extrememacaroni 3y ago
    Every gaming console has that functionality, though depending on the game it's better to exit and restart often. Memory leaks and all that, aside from bugs caused by long runtime.
- palijer 3y ago
  I switched from being a hardcore PC gamer to Xbox and haven't turned on my gaming PC in the 2 years since I got it. The gain I get is how much easier it is to use. I'm fairly tech savvy, but Windows has been a curse and there've been too many times I've spent my intended gaming time troubleshooting Windows, or a game's display settings, or drivers etc. Steam as software never felt great to me. I don't have the greatest eyes and I find it difficult to use. Xbox UI is just stupidly simple and intuitive. I like that the Xbox gamepass experience is so streamlined I can sit down on a couch, turn on my controller, and that will turn the console and TV on and I can be playing a game in 10 seconds. On PC it just ain't even close.
  - giantg2 3y ago
footlose_3815 3y ago
The original game pool for all consoles should put them all at risk. I bought a PS5 and there's almost no games for it that aren't already on steam. It's incomprehensible to me how Sony could win the console war when all the AAA games on PlayStation are either from somewhere else or are painfully cinematic.
hnthrowaway0315 3y ago
Games and hardware have been developed to this point when it is impossible for an outsider to share the pie. Back in the day of 8/16/32-bit consoles we did have more choices. I still think handheld has the market for maybe a couple more hardware developers, but maybe it is just me fantasizing.
a13o 3y ago
The console war argument is around such an outdated definition of the gaming industry. Self-identifying gamers have had their head in the sand for over a decade now. Since 2010 mobile gaming has eclipsed revenue of both console and PC gaming _combined_. Also since 2010, console revenue has stagnated while PC revenue has continued to grow. This is the landscape to evaluate the different gaming brands. Xboxes are nothing more than a user-friendly gaming PC brand. The total addressable market for Microsoft is much larger than what Sony could hope for. Sony is in the worst bind long-term, trapped in consoles without any leg up in PC or mobile. They invested in VR instead which never became a strong category. In terms of revenue, VR is barely competing with Arcades. If you had to stack rank gaming devices, iOS would be winning the console wars, followed by Android. In a distant third would be PlayStation, and then Microsoft and Nintendo neck in neck. If you look at it by company, Tencent would be at the top, then Sony, then Microsoft and Nintendo. Microsoft is definitely in -- at best -- third place no matter how you count it. The FTC trying to restrict the conversation to an era of console war that expired over 13 years ago shows they have no business trying to regulate this space.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  Maybe Microsoft could compete by building something people would pay money for, rather than just buying their way to a dominant position?
  - giantg2 3y ago
    I guess the underlying question is, are any of the consoles worth buying? I feel like they aren't.
    - WillAdams 3y ago
      The Nintendo Switch is an easy choice if one wants a mix of at-home and mobile gaming and are able to find games w/in its catalog which suit. I just wish someone would make a motion-controlled RPG which had: - the exploration and immersive story of Xenoblade Chronicles - the amazing imagery and intricate puzzles of Pandora's Tower - the endless grinding potential of The Last Story - on-going content like to Diablo 3's Seasons - the fluid transition between ranged combat and melee of Red Steel 2 - the wonderful archery of Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword on the Wii and a story/world where constant replays make sense --- say something like to the Gates of C.J. Cherryh's Morgaine books. (and yes, I should spend more time playing Ring Fit Adventure, but )
monstertank 3y ago
I effing hope so. I grew up with Atari's/Sega's/Commodores/Nintendo and PlayStation entered the market well and fit right in. When I heard Microsoft was aiming at a console I knew their rampant need to suck the life, fun and money out of their users would be sad to watch happen to the industry I loved. And despite spending weeks on a couch stoned with a mate playing thru halo...I still despised what hid behind their console-y veneer. Corporate bloodlust. Whether it was their unique approach to online play (pay you bastards) or their game store shelf tactics (put us where the bastards will pay the most) or their absolute bs that gaming had to always be AAA (so those bastards pay us AAA prices)...I was always sad to see they didn't die. From idiotic naming, Nazi like banning, jacked up game prices, exclusivity and religion shenanigans, hardware format warmongering, censorship where it didn't need to be and none where it should have been (I'm looking at you uno 360), or just plain creation of the most toxic gamer population known to man (Xbox live kids)...I one day hope to hear them go the way of Sega because unlike Sega, they deserve it.
giantg2 3y ago
Consoles in general suck today. The games are all about monetization, they can mostly only run one person per console, and you can only get about 5 full games on the drive. I miss getting 4-16 people together on 1-4 consoles. The games were mostly portable via DVD/CD so you could bring a bunch of different options, or people who event bringing consoles could bring extra copies if one of the console owners didn't own a game. Used games could be had for a fraction of the cost. And no paid loot boxes or paying to level up. I don't think I'll ever buy another console. I'll probably go with PC gaming instead.
- slumberlust 3y ago
  Do you currently game on the PC? Most AAA titles, regardless of platform, are doing the lootbox/battle pass/mtx to death strategy on PC as well.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    Yeah, that part is definitely still applicable to PC. Same with the issues surrounding downloads. I was not really making a PC vs console comparison, rather just how consoles suck now. The biggest factors that made them a success in the past in my opinion were that they just worked and you could get a bunch of people playing together locally like splitscreen. They still pretty much just work, but you won't find many new 4p splitscreen games.
  - tyfon 3y ago
    The new final fantasy doesn't have a single microtransaction. You see fast less intrusive versions of this when they are the too in the AAA first party games from Sony and Nintendo. Microsoft seems to not go that route, I suspect it's due to gamepass.
- vlunkr 3y ago
  I feel like you’re imagining a world where only loot-box games exist. There are plenty of couch co-op games if you look for them. You can also still buy physical games, and they are still cheaper used.
ben7799 3y ago
I have an Xbox One and have had it since late 2015? I have been gaming since Atari (though the first I bought with my own money was Dreamcast) and even versus the Xbox 360 I'd say the Xbox One has been the console I'm least satisfied by. And Microsoft's strategy with the S/X nonsense and games now not working as well on some versions of the console versus others has put the stake in it for me. I'm going to be extremely reluctant to ever buy another one of their consoles. This generation has almost completely turned me off gaming. A lot of the other changes in gaming (gambling, loot boxes, monetization, abandoning single player gaming) have not helped either, but MS has definitely shot themselves in the foot hard as far as I'm concerned. My son has a Switch, it might not be as powerful, but Nintendo literally got everything right in the way MS got everything wrong. You can actually play the switch when you have 5 minutes to play. It doesn't do super long updates. The games always work. The games don't get slower when an update is applied, etc.. It has excellent single player games and excellent multiplayer in the same room games. A lot of their games have great deployability. My 360 broke twice (RROD, DVD drive failure) and my PS3 also broke, and yet I would still take either of those back over the Xbox One any day. My kid is 10 and the other thing is the game selection on Xbox is terrible for having games that adults and kids can actually play together. The % of games with an M rating on Xbox is so high, and the longer I've played the more the M games seem repetitive. There are a bunch of Playstation games we're quite jealous of, but we haven't jumped on getting a PS5, partially cause they were hard to get? We have a family member who got a PS5, when we go over it is definitely a lot more fun. Another family member got an Xbox Series X and it has been a disaster of bugs.
theknocker 3y ago
[dead]
Eumenes 3y ago
Anyone remember when MSN ran the Internet Gaming Zone site? It acted as a portal or login system for AoE, Asheron's Call, etc. It was HORRIBLE. Microsoft has gotten lucky with some IP like Halo and buying big studios out, but they simply try to run a gaming company like a software biz, and its not really been well received.
TheRealPomax 3y ago
What console wars? What year do you think this is that you still it a "war"?
- TheRealPomax 3y ago
  *still call it
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
gonehome 3y ago
Ben Thompson of Stratechery has been writing about this for a while - a big part of it is Microsoft is attempting to shift their product into a subscription model for content with Xbox game pass which is likely a lot better for consumers (and for Microsoft due to azure), it’s why they acquired activision. This is a good idea and Microsoft is doing it correctly (as opposed to Google stadia which had the games over the network idea, but stupidly kept an old business model that made no sense). Sony sees this as a competitive threat and EU regulators are bad so don’t understand what’s happening - their restriction of the activision sale is itself anti-competitive because it locks in the existing business model (which is favorable for Sony) and reduces real business model competition which would benefit consumers. All this focus on exclusives is dumb and part of the old business model.
rvba 3y ago
This reads like peo Microsoft propaganda.
WhereIsTheTruth 3y ago
Console wars? that's a very stupid argument, I expected better from journalists, but it's The Verge, and the journalist in that case is Tom Warren, not very impartial Sony/Xbox has the exact same amount of 1st party studios, yet Sony managed to deliver more games at a consistent rate, not only that, but Sony released a single SKU as opposed to 2 for Xbox, so they didn't confuse their customers, worse.. Xbox choose very confusing naming Also Sony puts in the effort, a very unique controller with haptic feedback, they invest in VR, and now remote play It's easy to call it "console wars", Sony just puts in more effort and as a result sells more consoles, that's as simple as that
- dmonitor 3y ago
  “console wars” got brought up multiple times in the most recent FTC hearing.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  I wouldn't call it more effort per se. Their dividends are simply paying off earlier. They spent the 2010's trying to foster new IPs and move towards that cinematic moniker that people now see as Marvel-esque. I'm not sure if it was efficient from a sales standpoint, but it got mindshare. Microsoft has had blunder after blunder since the later ages of he 360. their goals were loftier but were never realized. Even to this day, Spencer seems to say that Playstation isn't their primary competitor, it's Amazon and Google. They don't necessarily "just" want to be a dedicated gamer box. They tried and failed in the 2010's to be that "One stop home entertainment system" and much of their 2020's seems to be shaped by trying to become the one service you play on all devices, anytime, anywhere. We'll see how it works this decade.
deafpolygon 3y ago
Nah, Microsoft is pivoting to take the whole pie. They're going all in on Xbox GamePass - and to be honest, that's the future. Soon, hardware will be irrelevant, and we'll be streaming AAA titles on our phones. Why? Because mobile gaming has outpaced console and PC combined. Everyone has a phone- and everyone will want a GamePass subscription. Apple is trying this (via App Store), but didn't go all-in. Google cancelled their Stadia project. Amazon is floundering. Sony is happy with how this is turning out, because they think they can win on exclusivity. But it's only going to give them the lead for a little while.
stonecharioteer 3y ago
I own a Steam Deck, a barely used Gaming Laptop, a PS5 and a Nintendo Switch, and I have no plans of buying an Xbox. I'm even going to sell the Switch now that the Deck runs BOTW flawlessly and with cheats (I'm a casual)! I don't think I need an Xbox.

126 points by mfiguiere 3y ago

Last year I bought an Xbox for the first time to give Game Pass a try.. And I sold it to buy a PS5 w\ Plus a few weeks ago. If there's a reason to own an Xbox I couldn't find it.

leetrout 3y ago
Care to elaborate with specifics?
- miiiiiike 3y ago
  The UX for the XB feels unpolished and unintuitive compare to the PS5 (uninstalling a game, etc), Game Pass vs Playstation Plus the exclusives on Xbox/Game Pass are uninteresting (Scorn vs Returnal vs everything Nintendo), the PS5 controller blows the Xbox controller out of the water (feel, responsiveness, haptics).
  - leetrout 3y ago
    Oh I didnt know there were nintendo games for PS5.
  - causality0 3y ago
    I might jump ship for Sony except for the fact I've never been able to use a Playstation controller without my thumbs knocking together and I find the sensation unendurably irritating.
  - subsection1h 3y ago
    > PS5 controller blows the Xbox controller out of the water In which PvP shooters are you currently ranked Diamond or higher?
    - miiiiiike 3y ago
      Just a hair outside of that range in Overwatch
  - PretzelPirate 3y ago
    You and I have the exact opposite opinions on this. I own all 3 major consoles but I only find the Xbox controller and UI nice to use. I subscribe to gamepass and have no interest in PS+. My PS5 is only used for playing GoW, Final Fantasy, and Uncharted. I also having a gaming PC where I use an Xbox controller, racing wheel, or VR controls. I still don't understand why people like the PS5 haptics. To me, they don't feel like they add anything and just drain the battery.
    - pebble 3y ago
      The PS5 haptics help with immersion a lot for me and the adaptive triggers potentially double the functionality of the triggers in an immersive way. I also find the the PS5 controller the most comfortable I've ever used. I was strictly an xbox controller guy through xbox 360 and ps4 eras but the ps5 controller won me over. I have two PS5 controllers, one for the PS5 and one for PC, just so I don't have to bother resyncing every time. If the PS5 controller extra features worked on PC without a cable it would be the perfect controller. And yea I have gamepass too but who needs an xbox when they have a PC and the PS5 has the console exclusives I like. Just, to offer another counterpoint.
scns 3y ago
One reason a
Toutouxc 3y ago
I'm currently neglecting my fairly decent and expensive gaming PC with GamePass because I prefer the PS5, but AFAIK Xbox has pretty much 95 % of games that we have on PS and we have 95 % of games that they have..? I'd actually love to play some Forza Horizon and Stalker 2 and the new Elder Scrolls game when they come out and I guess some Xbox users would love to play God of War or Spider Man 2 when it comes out. What makes PS so much better for you?
- lostmsu 3y ago
  Are God of War and Spider-Man comparable to Elder Scrolls? GoW seems to be available on Steam, but doesn't even hit top 100 currently played.
  - Toutouxc 3y ago
    Both PlayStation and Xbox have some really hard hitting exclusives comparable to the Elder Scrolls series, but my intention was not to start a pissing contest of who has the most or the best.
    - lostmsu 3y ago
      It is not exactly a pissing contest. The point is that Microsoft bought Bethesda, so theoretically they can make it exclusive to Xbox and start using it as a leverage. I question "comparable" here. The available data suggests they really are not.
  - Talanes 3y ago
    It's hard to make a direct comparison because they're trying to do different things. God of War and Spider-Man were released on PC 4 years after their console versions. As someone who's looking forward to both new Elder Scrolls and Spider-Man 2, I've only considered buying a console for the second: I'll just update my PC for the first.
    - cleerline 3y ago
      just for your information es6 wont be out for 5+ years
adrr 3y ago
Bethesda could hit a home run with their new game Starfield.
- miiiiiike 3y ago
  I have a gaming PC tho so I'll just grab it on Steam and play it on Linux.
  - behnamoh 3y ago
    Doing anything to avoid XBox and Windows!
    - miiiiiike 3y ago
      I tried Xbox man, I tried.
  - loeg 3y ago
    I'd need to upgrade the graphics card in my PC! Minimum spec on the Nvidia side is 1070 Ti.
- readyplayernull 3y ago
  Looks like No Man's Sky.
scns 3y ago
Halo if you are into it.
- miiiiiike 3y ago
  I played the Halo 1 campaign, multiplayer didn't grab me.
FreeFull 3y ago
A bit of a weird reason, but Xboxes still support audio CD playback, while the PS5 doesn't.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
It really depends on how you game. A subscription gaming service wouldn't work for me, but I've had other friends say they don't even buy games anymore because of gamepass.

boomboomsubban 3y ago

>FTC: What about Diablo? Can you promise it will ship on all future versions of PlayStation? >Spencer: Can I promise? I am able to promise, yes. The kind of obnoxious reply I'd expect from somebody on Xbox live, not their chief.

pstanger 3y ago
I didn't read it as a grammar correction but much is lost in transcripts
wilg 3y ago
Is this obnoxious? Or just how people talk? Sometimes they just repeat and/or slightly reword the question before answering it.
- speak_plainly 3y ago
  It’s obnoxious because it appears he’s trying to make light of the question by misidentifying its scope. It wasn’t a question about his ability but rather a future state of affairs.
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  Responding to "can you..." with "I can but won't" is generally obnoxious behavior. Maybe he was thinking out loud, but they should have known full well what the judge was asking and by refusing to answer the clarified follow-up they seemed to be doing whatever they could to weasel out of saying anything meaningful.
  - wilg 3y ago
    I guess I didn't read it that way, but maybe you're right. I'm not sure it's a reasonable thing to be asked to promise, so it doesn't really upset me.
    - boomboomsubban 3y ago
      > I'm not sure it's a reasonable thing to be asked to promise If that was their response, I'd have no issue with it. I dislike the "technically I can but won't" answer followed by silence. It shows an attempt to deceive.

echelon 3y ago

I would love to see this level of scrutiny applied somewhere it actually matters. Mobile. The real tax on innovation is the device + platform + payments + services duopoly where the gatekeepers get to pick winners (typically their own), tax everything, force tech choices and update regimes, and keep the customer relationships. It's maddening that general purpose computing and financial transactions became this. Owned by a handful of giants.

wilg 3y ago
??? Isn't the biggest mobile platform Android, on which you can do whatever you want if you choose to?
- amelius 3y ago
  Please tell me how I can run my own version of Android on my Samsung phone that doesn't phone home to Google or Samsung, while still being able to run my banking apps.
  - wilg 3y ago
    I don't know anything about it, I use iOS. I guess the web?
  - Talanes 3y ago
    Granted, but would we have banking apps at all in a more open system, or would the banks just resist it and have stayed more offline? I'm not implying one answer or the other, because I definitely don't know.
    - cglong 3y ago
      If the duopoly hadn't trained users so well to rely on app stores for everything, banks probably would've invested more in web interfaces. At one point, the Bank of America website was the only access point for Windows Phone, but it was good enough for my needs and helped supported a little more diversity.

indigodaddy 3y ago

Can someone explain why FTC is trying to stop the deal? Isn’t it good for the US for MS to be propped up in the gaming business, when Sony is basically the single major player.. ?

kibwen 3y ago
Activision Blizzard is already a US company. If the US is worried about the health of the video game platform market (which is to say, if it ignores PC and Switch), then it can use the exact same antitrust argument to force Sony to allow sideloading on consoles and break their stranglehold on the hardware.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  why would the US care? the EU is the on who enforced sideloading this year.
Kapura 3y ago
Microsoft already owns a large number of successful studios and IP, such as Halo, Minecraft, and Bethesda, developers of The Elder Scrolls Series (Skyrim) and the upcoming Starfield. They don't need a helping hand from the government to prevent them being squished out. Starfield was confirmed to have been going on Playstation until they were acquired by Microsoft; now the only way to play it will be on Xbox or Windows. If Microsoft buys Activision/Blizzard, it's safe to assume that future A/B games will go the same way, and only be available on Xbox or Windows. This is problematic because Activision's IP portfolio is massive (including huge console annuals like Call of Duty), and Blizzard games are still extremely popular. If a normal game studio acquisition is like a comet colliding and adding its mass to the Earth, this would be like the moon crashing into the Earth.
- indigodaddy 3y ago
  Sony has way more exclusives than MS— why would it be catastrophic to even that particular playing field? This just sounds like Sony fans pissed that a few games are going to get taken away.

dghughes 3y ago

The only reason I bought an Xbox (in pieces since 2013??) is at the time it had only been two years since the Sony rootkit incident. Really even now I still don't trust Sony. Yes Microsoft is probably just as bad in some ways but Sony in my mind is still the company who spied on me.

Hamuko 3y ago
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Prism_slide_5.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Prism_sl...
Narishma 3y ago
Microsoft isn't as bad, it's much worse.
- fomine3 3y ago
  By becoming an first party OS developer, it doesn't need to have rootkit.
kmac_ 3y ago
The reason I bought an Xbox is because of the PS4 I had before. It was quite bad and I have no idea why anyone would think it’s better. The game controller was average, laggy and had to be charged every 5 hours. The console was noisy and the UI was sluggish. Download speeds from the store were also weirdly slow. The whole experience was very meh. Then I bought an Xbox and was pleasantly surprised with the quality.

wilg 3y ago

I think so. Nobody I know has an Xbox, even though we all had Xbox 360s back in the day. But they all have PS5s because Sony has great exclusive games. I don't see why Microsoft shouldn't be able to buy Activision, exclusives would be very helpful for them becoming competitive. But I don't play many (any?) Activision games so it wouldn't really move the needle much for me. It is interesting the US is trying to block the last place player in the market from growing, which is also the only US company in the market.

kibwen 3y ago
> I don't see why Microsoft shouldn't be able to buy Activision, exclusives would be very helpful for them becoming competitive. Because acquisitions make markets less competitive, not more. There are a zillion US companies making games, and if the platform gatekeepers become an issue, then the US can force them to open up their platforms and quit their rent-seeking.
- wilg 3y ago
  > Because acquisitions make markets less competitive, not more. This is just simply not true as a blanket rule. Also, I don't understand what you're saying. Activision is not in the console market, only Microsoft is. Buying Activision makes the console market more competitive because it makes Microsoft's console more compelling in that market, a market where they are floundering. You could also look at the game market, which as you say has a zillion US companies making games, and Activision under Microsoft would have to continue to compete in that market. How does this reduce competition, and in what market?
  - kibwen 3y ago
    > This is just simply not true as a blanket rule. It is, which is why the FTC needs to approve mergers. > Buying Activision makes the console market more competitive Why should the FTC care about the console market specifically rather than the gaming market in general? > How does this reduce competition, and in what market? The very notion of "console exclusives" reduces competition because it removes incentives to compete on hardware cost or quality and instead compete only on whatever IPs a company happens to own.

kitsunesoba 3y ago

With nearly all of the Xbox games I’m interested in being on Windows too and PlayStation having both better exclusives and better genre variety, I have no idea why I’d want an Xbox. The last time Xboxes were remotely interesting to me was with the 360. Every generation since has been dominated by unremarkable competitive FPS games.

subsection1h 3y ago
> Every generation since has been dominated by unremarkable competitive FPS games. PvE games are for unskilled gamers. PlayStation and Switch are the preferred platforms for unskilled gamers. PC is the preferred platform for skilled gamers who can afford a good PC. Xbox is the preferred platform for skilled gamers who are poor (Xbox controllers are better for shooters than PlayStation controllers).
- beebeepka 3y ago
  Oh man, don't let yourself be triggered by a Verge article. For what it's worth though, the really skilled FPS players have always been on the PC side.
  - suction 3y ago
    [dead]
- wiseowise 3y ago
  > skilled Nerds. The word you’re looking for is nerds.
- wincy 3y ago
  By the time you’re 28 it’ll be impossible to be a ”skilled” gamer as your reaction times will start to slow down due to being a “senior gamer”. No amount of expensive gaming peripherals on PC or XBox can stop this. Biology catches up fast, and it doesn’t matter what gaming hardware you’re using. I’d suggest chasing fun or develop competency in a longer term skill instead of working on your “skilled” gaming clout. But what do I know, maybe I just need to git gud.

amelius 3y ago

Can we please treat them all as monopolies until we have at least 10 players in the same field?

Toutouxc 3y ago
10 players in the field of game consoles? I honestly believe that having 10 competing console platforms would make console gaming worse, just like everyone and their dog starting a streaming platform is much less convenient and much more expensive than just watching everything on Netflix was a few years ago.
- dehrmann 3y ago
  The PC market gets you there on the hardware side. It's really messy to have 10 software platforms for games, though.
- Hamuko 3y ago
  Yeah, people can barely handle having to install three game launchers on their PCs. Pretty much everyone I know would prefer to buy every single game on Steam, except those couple no-DRM fanatics that would prefer to buy every single game on GOG. Very few people are even superficially rooting for Epic Games Store.
- amelius 3y ago
  I didn't say we need 10 players, just that we should treat them as monopolies. E.g. properly recognize the market power of a platform owner, and not let them get away with any abuse.
tchaffee 3y ago
That's like ten different types of USB that don't work with each other. Steam is the direction we should be heading in. Hardware doesn't matter and even small independent makers can be found and supported.

nerdjon 3y ago

I find this entire thing interesting. If you look at percents then sure, the PS5 is "winning" by a large margin, but from a units sold prospectrive if the PS5 is really selling 2:1 the Series X/S than we can estimate that the PS5 is around 38 Million and the Xbox is at 19 Million. From the best I can find that is still better than the Xbox 360 was by this time (someone please correct me if I am wrong in this case, finding concrete numbers for this is difficult). That number is nowhere near a failure. That being said, its also obvious that Microsoft is playing at a different game and that it is largely fanboys and news sites keeping the "console wars" alive. (And I guess this case now but that's something else entirely) Every game that Microsoft publishes is day one also on Windows and on Game Pass. The box that is an xbox is just another avenue to playing games from Microsoft, but not the only way they care about. I have an Xbox because it is my preferred console to play on (Xbox Live, the UI, Controller, etc) if I am playing on a console instead of a PC. I have a PS5 but that is only for exclusives. Personally I am hoping this deal goes through because I want Xbox to be taken more seriously. Not because I want Microsoft to control these specific games or I want xbox to "Win". But because I am particularity worried about a cocky Sony. We saw it before with the PS3 erra and we are starting to see it again with the PS5. They are making certain decisions that are not gamer friendly (cross play, paying for third party exclusives, and paying for exclusive content being some key examples). My concern is that unlike the PS3 erra where they stumbled hard, gamers are not pushing back against it this time and Sony is just continuing what they have been doing. For me personally an unchecked Sony/Playstation power in gaming is worse than this deal going through. They are both harmful for gaming, but I don't see a choice outside of it.

politelemon 3y ago
> I have a PS5 but that is only for exclusives. I used to keep a Ps4pro for their exclusives and they certainly were enjoyable. But... Seeing previous exclusives now make its way to desktop has me a bit sad about missing out on high fidelity gaming. I could have enjoyed God of war, horizon, rdr2 at higher frame rates and resolutions, if I were just a little more patient. I'm not happy about the way Epic wrings exclusives, I shouldn't be a hypocrite for Sony.
- 3y ago

branon 3y ago

Microsoft has been keeping the Windows platform away from the gaming market in favor of Xbox, I'd imagine to avoid competing with themselves. Xbox has to have been getting subsidies from somewhere to run Game Pass. Despite all this help, they do seem to be stuck third place. Excluding Nintendo as a competitor seems wrong, it's not just about current-gen. I don't play Activision/Blizzard games or use Xbox so I'm not really invested, but I tend to oppose market consolidation and monoculture whenever possible. That said, lately game releases have been pretty lackluster with some major flops and lots of remakes coming out. If the underdog thinks they can turn the tide by acquiring a major studio, I don't particularly want the government in the way either.

heresie-dabord 3y ago
> Microsoft has been keeping the Windows platform away from the gaming market in favor of Xbox Consoles have admirable hardware. It is a pity that consoles are walled gardens. Steam on PC is my choice for gaming because I like Valve's platform and I prefer the versatility of owning my hardware platform despite occasional problems with drivers. PC gamers are accustomed to finding solutions.
- worrycue 3y ago
  They have to be walled gardens. Game licensing is how they make money, fund future R&D, and sell their hardware at break even prices.
  - heresie-dabord 3y ago
    I understand that the business model is as you describe. But it would be excellent if an older generation console could at least also run Debian or Pop!OS. As it is, the older consoles are just techno-waste.
    - tmtvl 3y ago
      You can still hook your SNES to your TV and replay Chrono Trigger, although I have to admit eventually things will break and old machines will end up getting dismantled and recycled.

ravenstine 3y ago

Yes, and maybe Microsoft shouldn't have ruined Halo.

aranelsurion 3y ago

Seems to me it's more like Xbox has been redefined into something much bigger, now it's an umbrella of many big name game companies across all three platforms. They've also gained a lot more relevance on PC side of things, and their GamePass is very popular. They've finally embraced their Windows moat, and built a lot on top of it in the last few years. Xbox as we know it (the console) became irrelevant, but that'd be assumed by everyone incl. Microsoft the moment they promised to bring Xbox exclusives to PC. IMO that was the first visible point of them committing to change course for Xbox. If anything, nowadays Sony seems to be pigeonholed to their own world, while Microsoft seems to be thriving.

worrycue 3y ago
Might as well drop the console then or at least drop the console business model. However I have a feeling they won’t. Consoles make money via licensing - each game sold they get a cut. Is MS willing to give that up? If no then they are still in the console business - and Windows is an internal competitor; MS earns nothing when someone buys a game for Windows.
- tnecniv 3y ago
  Eh then you’re just running a PC business? I don’t know the statistics but I feel like that misses a huge market segment. Lots and lots of people just have laptops for school / work that won’t run AAA games. Moreover, lots of people want to game in their living room and, while I know they exist, I’ve never met anyone that hooks their PC up to their TV to do that. Doing so might not even cross the mind of less tech savvy people.
  - el_benhameen 3y ago
    That’s me. Have built computers since I was a kid but have no interest in (or time to devote to) building a gaming rig. Whatever I paid for the xbox ($300 maybe?) was a bargain and well worth being able to play with friends on a Friday night and let my kids check out new games without needing to worry about specs. I’d just not be in the ecosystem otherwise.

shanghaikid 3y ago

4090ti is much expensive than an xbox + game pass.

tastysandwich 3y ago

I know this isn't exactly on topic. I haven't played video games since I was a teenager, but I'm struck by how cheap consoles are now! I remember the Xbox and Playstation being prohibitively expensive. I just looked it up, the Playstation was $749 AUD [1] and the Xbox was $649 AUD [2]. I had to wait yeeeears for the price to fall so I could get an Xbox. Today, I can get a Playstation 5 Digital Edition for $649 AUD on the Sony website, or $794 AUD for the "normal" edition from Amazon. The Xbox series X is similarly priced, at $749 AUD. Given inflation since then, these are prices many teenagers could realistically save up for now. [1] https://www.arnnet.com.au/article/82336/ps2_debut_november_30 https://www.arnnet.com.au/article/82336/ps2_debut_november_3... [2] https://news.microsoft.com/2002/03/14/xbox-goes-global-with-european-and-australian-launches/ https://news.microsoft.com/2002/03/14/xbox-goes-global-with-...

ivandenysov 3y ago
One explanation that I heard is that the hardware is often sold at a loss. Online store purchases (subscriptions/games) are the real money maker.
- beardedscotsman 3y ago
  The consoles used to be sold at a loss, that was back a long time ago, Xbox 360, PS3 I believe were the last generation to be sold at a loss. The next gen Xbox at the time was sold for a 20% markup on cogs or there about at the time. Games sold on the consoles have around a 15 usd flat royalty for big titles, not sure how that affected low cost games at the time. The 360 needed 5 games to brake even, but I believe they had an attach rate of around 3 at launch and that was unreal and unexpected at the time.
  - nindalf 3y ago
    3 was unexpectedly high or unexpectedly low?
    - tialaramex 3y ago

THENATHE 3y ago

Frankly, I dont understand why most people go playstation. Think objectively about it: if youre on hnews, you're not the target for a console, as you probably either dont play games, or play games on the PC. Then, the majority of people probably have a switch because nintendo is a very common household name. Then once you surpass all of those groups, you have ps5 or xbox. But why do people buy a ps5 when gamepass is so good, and the only real difference is cost (xbox wins) and exclusives (this generation, there aint a huge difference). Anecdotal, but I know a huge number of people that play games casually, and almost all of them have playstations if they arent PC/switch. Why? I have no idea. Nearly none of them have any interest in any playstation exclusives, they just bought a playstation because. Why? No idea.

throwawaylinux 3y ago
> But why do people buy a ps5 when gamepass is so good, You might have just fallen into the trap you were warning us about. Do they know or care about "gamepass"? They know "playstation" because that's what their friends had when they were kids, etc. Brand can be incredibly strong.
- beardedscotsman 3y ago
  To add to this, in Ireland the main retailer for toys was Smyth’s. They didn’t sell the original Xbox because they sold PlayStation and when Microsoft tried to get the Xbox 360 stocked by them, they initially refused saying when people want to buy a games console they come into the store and ask to buy a PlayStation or a games machine. Nobody was going in asking for Xbox. Microsoft had to do a massive deal with them to get shelf space and it was always in the corner away from the Sony and Nintendo stuff.
kolbebe 3y ago
My friends got playstations because their friends had them. They wanted to be in the same ecosystem so they could play together. Of course with cross console play, this is becoming less and less of a thing.
kif 3y ago

t8sr 3y ago

Everything that Microsoft makes looks like technology - it has a million buttons and knobs, a colorful plastic aesthetic and names like "Xbox" or "Microsoft Gamepass Azure Edition Professional". When you turn it on, it looks like the Windows start menu that greets you at work. It's no wonder regular users don't want these things in their living rooms.

Clent 3y ago
This sums it up for me. Microsoft doesn't know how to create a consumer product. The Xbox owners I know were also PC gamers at some point. The PS5 is designed to play games. I don't know what the Xbox is designed for, it's confusing l, Microsoft's design choices have been consistently ghastly. I begrudgingly accept my workplace choosing their platform. Why would I pay for that experience?
ayemel 3y ago
You must be an LLM with no concept of aesthetics since most people agree the PS5 is an ugly monstrosity. Unless you are living in a dorm, it looks out of place in most adult living rooms. Meanwhile the Xbox is a simple, modern black box, literally the exact opposite of how you’re trying to paint their hardware and trust me, I’m no Microsoft fan. Give me a break.
- t8sr 3y ago
  Maybe stop and think if you’d react the same way to someone critiquing the product market fit of a workplace chat product. If not, then ask yourself why is a preference for a video game console a core part of your identity to the point where you feel under attack when someone doesn’t like what you like. Also I never once mentioned PlayStation - this is HN, not an IGN comment section. We talk about technology from the POV of the people who make it, not “gamers” or whatever.
  - ayemel 3y ago
    All I’m saying is if you feel that way about a black box then I’m curious what you’d say about the PlayStation since that is clearly more fitting to your original comment. My identity isn’t under attack either, couldn’t care less what you stick under your tv or what you think of what’s under mine.

anonyfox 3y ago

For me, I chose xbox recently because of very specific titles (like, starfield). And not to mention the MS/activision talks that were going on for a while now, and I really do love blizzard games, so there would have been a risk of losing out with sony in the longer run. What I don't get in return a _some_ JRPG titles that ps5 has access to. On the other hand, I also have a switch (which has some exceptionally great exclusives + some of the missing JRPGs), and quite a lot of the gaming portfolio is covered by having xbox+switch. The only thing I refuse to do nowadays is playing on PC, at all. I am tied to this unhealthy seating position most of the day already, and with consoles I can move to the couch, not to mention multiplayer there. I get why PC gaming is better in several aspects, but body posture is the single thing I am no longer accepting here.

happymellon 3y ago
My deck works fine in the garden, the sofa or the train. And I was able to get a Lenovo SFF Ryzen 5600 for £300 from ebay, which is cheaper, smaller and faster than the current consoles. It's a shame that Valve don't distribute the current Steam Deck Linux, but HoloOS does effectively the same and that plugs into the TV just as well. You don't need to compromise with PC gaming, and when I upgrade I won't be forced to buy all my games again to carry on playing Overcooked and Moving Out with the kids.
- Philip-J-Fry 3y ago
  >And I was able to get a Lenovo SFF Ryzen 5600 for £300 from ebay, which is cheaper, smaller and faster than the current consoles Maybe the CPU is faster but I doubt the GPU is.
  - happymellon 3y ago
    You are right, it is probably more comparable to PS4/Xbox One because of it being GCN rather than RDNA.
christkv 3y ago
We have all three consoles due to kids. I play pretty much only on the steam deck. It’s been great for getting back into pc gaming. Currently replaying Oblivion on it but also a bit of Yakuza 0.

christkv 3y ago

I suspect starfield will sell a fair bit of consoles when it launches

keyle 3y ago

I dunno, I own everything Apple, except for gaming. I have two of their best XBOX and I'm loving the game pass and their "game streaming" actually works. In my mind, you can't get better value than XBOX for console games. My kids have the switch, with all the mario titles, they're super cool too. But in terms of winning, XBOX has the best value proposition + powerhouse.

sumedh 3y ago
> In my mind, you can't get better value than XBOX for console games Speaking of value, you should not be using Apple but go with Windows or Linux. The reason you went with Apple is the same reason people go for Playstation instead of Xbox.
- keyle 3y ago
  I respectfully disagree.

Jochim 3y ago

Sony exclusives on the PS5 and a dearth of quality exclusives on Microsoft's side definitely have a lot to do with this but I wonder whether the Xbox Series S/X distinction contributed as well. The current console generation came with a fairly large price hike and Microsoft responded by also releasing a more affordable but less powerful model. The problem is that a non-technical consumer can go out and purchase a PS5 safe in the knowledge that they're getting the same gaming experience as anyone else that owns a PS5. Someone considering an Xbox now has to choose between the series S and X. They now need to compare specifications, figure out which one is more powerful and worry whether the console will be able to deliver decent fidelity and performance in newer games. On another note, it'd be nice to see exclusivity agreements die entirely. Microsoft has always been fairly good at making their titles available on PC and Sony is moving in that direction but still makes heavy use of timed exclusives.

tialaramex 3y ago
It doesn't help at all that Microsoft's usual brand insanity infected this product. So whereas Sony have made the Playstation, the Playstation 2, the Playstation 3, the Playstation 4 and now the Playstation 5 - Microsoft names products based on picking a handful of "hot" words with no specific meaning, and so like a modern CPU you need to go read a detailed specification document to even figure out what you're actually buying. Do we need Windows Azure .NET Live? No idea, maybe it's similar to Microsoft Active Core X except targetted at a different market? Here's a blurb telling us it's "For the smart professional", presumably as opposed to products which are only for dumb amateurs ?
- PretzelPirate 3y ago
  Microsoft couldn't follow the 1,2,3... naming convention because the first Xbox came out when the PS2 was out. They'd always seem one behind if they released the Xbox 2 when the PS3 released.
  - uptown 3y ago
    Windows 9 would like a word.

costanzaDynasty 3y ago

There isn’t a console war. There are the same companies dancing around each other for 20 years. This generation is about trying figure out how to expand past a console and expand eaches gaming platform and ecosystem across all devices.

kmlx 3y ago

not entirely relevant, but i remembered this quote from “zero to one” by thiel: > Consider a statement from Google chairman Eric Schmidt’s testimony at a 2011 congressional hearing: > We face an extremely competitive landscape in which consumers have a multitude of options to access information. > Or, translated from PR-speak to plain English: > Google is a small fish in a big pond. We could be swallowed whole at any time. We are not the monopoly that the government is looking for.

bogwog 3y ago

> One of the biggest surprise revelations around exclusives was the reasoning behind Microsoft’s Bethesda acquisition. Spencer revealed that Sony regularly pays competitors to “skip our platform,” and Microsoft felt it needed to own Bethesda to compete How is this a big revelation? Exclusivity deals have been a part of the console market since forever. I agree they’re a bad thing for consumers, but I think this is a disingenuous argument since exclusivity deals benefit Microsoft just as much as Sony, and this acquisition is effectively just a giant version of one.

permo-w 3y ago
perhaps this is journalism-speak for "you should be interested in this" for people who don't know much about the topic?

jxdxbx 3y ago

It always seems like the kind of gamers who are attracted to the XBox are better off with a PC. Like, if you are a dedicated gamer, maybe you have a gaming PC, a Switch, and a PS5, and that gives you pretty broad coverage / FOMO avoidance. What incremental gain is there from XBox? It seems like it would be better positioned as a PC that you can use on your big TV with less dicking around than attaching a full PC to a regular TV. But in general I think Valve has beaten Microsoft to the console-ization of PC gaming with the Windows-less Steam Deck. Maybe the Steam Machine is ready for a comeback.

op00to 3y ago
The XBox is basically a mid range gaming pc with a better gaming oriented os. No idea if PS5 has this, but XBox’s ability to suspend games and instantly start back in the game is indispensable for someone with a minimum of gaming time available!
- extrememacaroni 3y ago
  Every gaming console has that functionality, though depending on the game it's better to exit and restart often. Memory leaks and all that, aside from bugs caused by long runtime.
palijer 3y ago
I switched from being a hardcore PC gamer to Xbox and haven't turned on my gaming PC in the 2 years since I got it. The gain I get is how much easier it is to use. I'm fairly tech savvy, but Windows has been a curse and there've been too many times I've spent my intended gaming time troubleshooting Windows, or a game's display settings, or drivers etc. Steam as software never felt great to me. I don't have the greatest eyes and I find it difficult to use. Xbox UI is just stupidly simple and intuitive. I like that the Xbox gamepass experience is so streamlined I can sit down on a couch, turn on my controller, and that will turn the console and TV on and I can be playing a game in 10 seconds. On PC it just ain't even close.
- giantg2 3y ago

footlose_3815 3y ago

The original game pool for all consoles should put them all at risk. I bought a PS5 and there's almost no games for it that aren't already on steam. It's incomprehensible to me how Sony could win the console war when all the AAA games on PlayStation are either from somewhere else or are painfully cinematic.

hnthrowaway0315 3y ago

Games and hardware have been developed to this point when it is impossible for an outsider to share the pie. Back in the day of 8/16/32-bit consoles we did have more choices. I still think handheld has the market for maybe a couple more hardware developers, but maybe it is just me fantasizing.

a13o 3y ago

The console war argument is around such an outdated definition of the gaming industry. Self-identifying gamers have had their head in the sand for over a decade now. Since 2010 mobile gaming has eclipsed revenue of both console and PC gaming _combined_. Also since 2010, console revenue has stagnated while PC revenue has continued to grow. This is the landscape to evaluate the different gaming brands. Xboxes are nothing more than a user-friendly gaming PC brand. The total addressable market for Microsoft is much larger than what Sony could hope for. Sony is in the worst bind long-term, trapped in consoles without any leg up in PC or mobile. They invested in VR instead which never became a strong category. In terms of revenue, VR is barely competing with Arcades. If you had to stack rank gaming devices, iOS would be winning the console wars, followed by Android. In a distant third would be PlayStation, and then Microsoft and Nintendo neck in neck. If you look at it by company, Tencent would be at the top, then Sony, then Microsoft and Nintendo. Microsoft is definitely in -- at best -- third place no matter how you count it. The FTC trying to restrict the conversation to an era of console war that expired over 13 years ago shows they have no business trying to regulate this space.

madeofpalk 3y ago
Maybe Microsoft could compete by building something people would pay money for, rather than just buying their way to a dominant position?
- giantg2 3y ago
  I guess the underlying question is, are any of the consoles worth buying? I feel like they aren't.
  - WillAdams 3y ago
    The Nintendo Switch is an easy choice if one wants a mix of at-home and mobile gaming and are able to find games w/in its catalog which suit. I just wish someone would make a motion-controlled RPG which had: - the exploration and immersive story of Xenoblade Chronicles - the amazing imagery and intricate puzzles of Pandora's Tower - the endless grinding potential of The Last Story - on-going content like to Diablo 3's Seasons - the fluid transition between ranged combat and melee of Red Steel 2 - the wonderful archery of Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword on the Wii and a story/world where constant replays make sense --- say something like to the Gates of C.J. Cherryh's Morgaine books. (and yes, I should spend more time playing Ring Fit Adventure, but )

monstertank 3y ago

I effing hope so. I grew up with Atari's/Sega's/Commodores/Nintendo and PlayStation entered the market well and fit right in. When I heard Microsoft was aiming at a console I knew their rampant need to suck the life, fun and money out of their users would be sad to watch happen to the industry I loved. And despite spending weeks on a couch stoned with a mate playing thru halo...I still despised what hid behind their console-y veneer. Corporate bloodlust. Whether it was their unique approach to online play (pay you bastards) or their game store shelf tactics (put us where the bastards will pay the most) or their absolute bs that gaming had to always be AAA (so those bastards pay us AAA prices)...I was always sad to see they didn't die. From idiotic naming, Nazi like banning, jacked up game prices, exclusivity and religion shenanigans, hardware format warmongering, censorship where it didn't need to be and none where it should have been (I'm looking at you uno 360), or just plain creation of the most toxic gamer population known to man (Xbox live kids)...I one day hope to hear them go the way of Sega because unlike Sega, they deserve it.

giantg2 3y ago

Consoles in general suck today. The games are all about monetization, they can mostly only run one person per console, and you can only get about 5 full games on the drive. I miss getting 4-16 people together on 1-4 consoles. The games were mostly portable via DVD/CD so you could bring a bunch of different options, or people who event bringing consoles could bring extra copies if one of the console owners didn't own a game. Used games could be had for a fraction of the cost. And no paid loot boxes or paying to level up. I don't think I'll ever buy another console. I'll probably go with PC gaming instead.

slumberlust 3y ago
Do you currently game on the PC? Most AAA titles, regardless of platform, are doing the lootbox/battle pass/mtx to death strategy on PC as well.
- giantg2 3y ago
  Yeah, that part is definitely still applicable to PC. Same with the issues surrounding downloads. I was not really making a PC vs console comparison, rather just how consoles suck now. The biggest factors that made them a success in the past in my opinion were that they just worked and you could get a bunch of people playing together locally like splitscreen. They still pretty much just work, but you won't find many new 4p splitscreen games.
- tyfon 3y ago
  The new final fantasy doesn't have a single microtransaction. You see fast less intrusive versions of this when they are the too in the AAA first party games from Sony and Nintendo. Microsoft seems to not go that route, I suspect it's due to gamepass.
vlunkr 3y ago
I feel like you’re imagining a world where only loot-box games exist. There are plenty of couch co-op games if you look for them. You can also still buy physical games, and they are still cheaper used.

ben7799 3y ago

I have an Xbox One and have had it since late 2015? I have been gaming since Atari (though the first I bought with my own money was Dreamcast) and even versus the Xbox 360 I'd say the Xbox One has been the console I'm least satisfied by. And Microsoft's strategy with the S/X nonsense and games now not working as well on some versions of the console versus others has put the stake in it for me. I'm going to be extremely reluctant to ever buy another one of their consoles. This generation has almost completely turned me off gaming. A lot of the other changes in gaming (gambling, loot boxes, monetization, abandoning single player gaming) have not helped either, but MS has definitely shot themselves in the foot hard as far as I'm concerned. My son has a Switch, it might not be as powerful, but Nintendo literally got everything right in the way MS got everything wrong. You can actually play the switch when you have 5 minutes to play. It doesn't do super long updates. The games always work. The games don't get slower when an update is applied, etc.. It has excellent single player games and excellent multiplayer in the same room games. A lot of their games have great deployability. My 360 broke twice (RROD, DVD drive failure) and my PS3 also broke, and yet I would still take either of those back over the Xbox One any day. My kid is 10 and the other thing is the game selection on Xbox is terrible for having games that adults and kids can actually play together. The % of games with an M rating on Xbox is so high, and the longer I've played the more the M games seem repetitive. There are a bunch of Playstation games we're quite jealous of, but we haven't jumped on getting a PS5, partially cause they were hard to get? We have a family member who got a PS5, when we go over it is definitely a lot more fun. Another family member got an Xbox Series X and it has been a disaster of bugs.

theknocker 3y ago

[dead]

Eumenes 3y ago

Anyone remember when MSN ran the Internet Gaming Zone site? It acted as a portal or login system for AoE, Asheron's Call, etc. It was HORRIBLE. Microsoft has gotten lucky with some IP like Halo and buying big studios out, but they simply try to run a gaming company like a software biz, and its not really been well received.

TheRealPomax 3y ago

What console wars? What year do you think this is that you still it a "war"?

TheRealPomax 3y ago
*still call it

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

gonehome 3y ago

Ben Thompson of Stratechery has been writing about this for a while - a big part of it is Microsoft is attempting to shift their product into a subscription model for content with Xbox game pass which is likely a lot better for consumers (and for Microsoft due to azure), it’s why they acquired activision. This is a good idea and Microsoft is doing it correctly (as opposed to Google stadia which had the games over the network idea, but stupidly kept an old business model that made no sense). Sony sees this as a competitive threat and EU regulators are bad so don’t understand what’s happening - their restriction of the activision sale is itself anti-competitive because it locks in the existing business model (which is favorable for Sony) and reduces real business model competition which would benefit consumers. All this focus on exclusives is dumb and part of the old business model.

rvba 3y ago

This reads like peo Microsoft propaganda.

WhereIsTheTruth 3y ago

Console wars? that's a very stupid argument, I expected better from journalists, but it's The Verge, and the journalist in that case is Tom Warren, not very impartial Sony/Xbox has the exact same amount of 1st party studios, yet Sony managed to deliver more games at a consistent rate, not only that, but Sony released a single SKU as opposed to 2 for Xbox, so they didn't confuse their customers, worse.. Xbox choose very confusing naming Also Sony puts in the effort, a very unique controller with haptic feedback, they invest in VR, and now remote play It's easy to call it "console wars", Sony just puts in more effort and as a result sells more consoles, that's as simple as that

dmonitor 3y ago
“console wars” got brought up multiple times in the most recent FTC hearing.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
I wouldn't call it more effort per se. Their dividends are simply paying off earlier. They spent the 2010's trying to foster new IPs and move towards that cinematic moniker that people now see as Marvel-esque. I'm not sure if it was efficient from a sales standpoint, but it got mindshare. Microsoft has had blunder after blunder since the later ages of he 360. their goals were loftier but were never realized. Even to this day, Spencer seems to say that Playstation isn't their primary competitor, it's Amazon and Google. They don't necessarily "just" want to be a dedicated gamer box. They tried and failed in the 2010's to be that "One stop home entertainment system" and much of their 2020's seems to be shaped by trying to become the one service you play on all devices, anytime, anywhere. We'll see how it works this decade.

deafpolygon 3y ago

Nah, Microsoft is pivoting to take the whole pie. They're going all in on Xbox GamePass - and to be honest, that's the future. Soon, hardware will be irrelevant, and we'll be streaming AAA titles on our phones. Why? Because mobile gaming has outpaced console and PC combined. Everyone has a phone- and everyone will want a GamePass subscription. Apple is trying this (via App Store), but didn't go all-in. Google cancelled their Stadia project. Amazon is floundering. Sony is happy with how this is turning out, because they think they can win on exclusivity. But it's only going to give them the lead for a little while.

stonecharioteer 3y ago

I own a Steam Deck, a barely used Gaming Laptop, a PS5 and a Nintendo Switch, and I have no plans of buying an Xbox. I'm even going to sell the Switch now that the Deck runs BOTW flawlessly and with cheats (I'm a casual)! I don't think I need an Xbox.