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Sennheiser HD 555 to HD 595 Mod
- chayesfss 3y ago[dead]
- urbandw311er 3y agoThis post ticks multiple boxes for me — taking things apart and love of a bargain.
- accrual 3y agoPretty fascinating find and a great insight into manufacturing different SKUs. I thought it was neat the lower end product actually had one extra part compared to the higher model – in this case a small piece of foam to slightly tweak the output to a slightly less desirable shape.
- fy20 3y agoIt's similar to how motorcycles are derated. In Europe there is limit to the kW output of motorcycles someone with a learners permit can drive, so in a lot of cases the output of a more powerful bike is limited so they can learn on the same bike to what they will be driving. To achieve this on some bikes you can restrict the air flow through the carburettor, which can be as simple as adding a piece of cardboard in the right place...
- simonjgreen 3y agoMy very first bike, and those of all my friends who rode, was the same. The process (called derestricting) usually involved removing a cross feed pipe between the exhaust and the intake.
- Lev1a 3y agoA few years ago the EU introduced a change/addendum to the A2 class restriction barring holders of that license class from driving bikes that were too limited in order to get their vehicle certification: Motorcycles of a power not exceeding 35 kilowatts (47 hp) and with a power/weight ratio not exceeding 0.2 kilowatts per kilogram (0.12 hp/lb) and not derived from a vehicle of more than double its power.
- MrBuddyCasino 3y agoReminder that in hifi, price and performance are only very loosely correlated, if at all. This is even more so the case for headphones.
- cyberpunk 3y agoI can agree that dac+amps make almost no difference, and there is a metric fsckton of snake oil. I do find that the difference between a pair of 100 euro headphones and 400 euro headphones is quite obvious, though. Can you elaborate a bit? I think over about 800, the difference is pretty much gone -- with the caveat that might not hold if you're buying a set with a specific freq response in mind (e.g Beyer Dynamics cans tend to boost low and treble a bit, which is good for mixing, or Grados which make acoustic music sound absolutely massive etc)..
- etempleton 3y agoI generally agree, but to counter that I have worked in audio studios with full stack audio setups with some of the best professional gear available at the time and the audio that came through even a cheap pair of monitors was better than anything I have heard before or since.
- jlg23 3y agoI'd speculate that in audio studios a lot of thoughts/work go into acoustics of the rooms themselves. And it is done by professionals who have to work in that environment every day for several hours.
- cyberpunk 3y agoYep this. A studio engineer mate of mine recons room treatment is maybe 80% of the difference you can hear. Not many people are willing to install that much foam panelling, though.
- numpad0 3y agoI agree that there is a metric ton of snake oil but make no difference? That’s not true at all. Power consumption and capacitor sizes make tons of difference. Well warmed up Class A amps are great. Sad I don’t own one.
- malermeister 3y agoThis reminds me of when I flashed the bios of my AMD gpu to make it into a more expensive model.
- formerly_proven 3y agoBack then not even GPU-Z could tell them apart… “6850? 6870? Ehhh let’s say ‘a 6800 series GPU”
- KptMarchewa 3y agoI appreciate the article, but if you really want to buy headphones, HD6xx are a better choice.
- mickael-kerjean 3y agoYep, the hd600 is amazing, I was introduced to it by an old friend in my teenage year and immediately got hypnotized by its sound, the most amazing piece of hardware I've ever tried but was only able to afford it after my first engineer pay check a bit more than 10 years ago and have never found anything better to this day. I've tried a lot of them since that time but in my ears it put everything else to shame, if HN got some suggestions to find what could be an upgrade from the hd600, I'm all ears! One of the issue of the hd600 is it makes you picky about sound, in the same way like pluging an old gibson onto a marshall amp, it's hard to get back to a cheaper alternative once you try the magic. Also the same friend that introduce me to the hd600 bought a hd650 as he lost the hd600 on tour but I was very disappointed by the sound of the hd650 which in my ear is nowhere as good as the hd600
- snvzz 3y agoAs an HD600 owner, I can confirm: This is the headphone to get. Comfortable, Neutral, Accurate and Durable. And I do not like the HD650 either; it's just a worse headphone to my ear. Clearly colored to sound a certain way.
- agluszak 3y agoDesigning things that way (especially firmware crippling) should be illegal
- 2muchcoffeeman 3y agoMaybe? I mean a whole bunch of people got the more expensive version of something for a bargain. So …
- pizza234 3y agoThe alternatives are: - merge the two products in one: the higher-end users would pay less (for the same quality), but the lower-end ones would pay more (for a slightly increased quality); lower-end clients (which make up the majority of the client base) would likely end up buying other products instead, since the product wouldn't meet the price point anymore - make the products physically different: both higher-end and lower-end users would pay more, for the same quality Artificial product differentiation is ugly, but it does have a purpose.
- chii 3y ago> it does have a purpose. yes, the purpose is to maximally profit off the product line. Consumers hate it. Companies that do it are costing them reputation, if consumers get the hint that they're being price discriminated against.
- slim 3y agothey could just add a design detail (like not having sennheiser logo, or having it in a different color) to signal the costly model and that would be fair for everybody
- paxys 3y agoWhy? Are you not getting what you paid for? Why should it be your concern to dictate a company's manufacturing process, supply chain and other internal business decisions?
- 2muchcoffeeman 3y agoI have the 555s. Can confirm this works.
- UberFly 3y ago"the only physical difference was an additional piece of foam inside the cheaper HD555 headphones, blocking about 50% of the outside-facing vents" They are likely still making a good profit on the $200.00 "cheaper" pair - just goes to show what a rip-off the $350.00"premium" level of equipment is. Sennheiser should be embarrassed. I hope buyers take notice and send their money elsewhere.
- H8crilA 3y agoLol, why embarrassed. Sennheiser was happy and still is happy, this tutorial will not reach nearly enough people to make a difference in their sales. It is a very cool tutorial, though.
- squarefoot 3y agoYes, they probably don't care. In some circles, quite often the ones where the most money is, a hacked pair of headphones will always sound worse than an untouched one, no matter if lab instrumentation would say otherwise.
- COGlory 3y agoYou're looking at this all wrong. The 595s were competitive at their price point. They reviewed extremely well. They are considered good value. The 555s were excellent value, using the same driver. Neither is a ripoff. They're both good to excellent value when looking at the market.
- recursive 3y agoI still like Sennheiser. What makes you think elsewhere is any different?
- tzmudzin 3y agoDoes this make the practice any better?
- 3y ago
- Reticularas 3y agoDidn't expect to see this here. I heard this rumor a long while ago (15+ years) while still in school. I did it to my headphones but learned that it pretty dramatically increased sound leakage. I'm not sure if was the exact same models of senns, but the trick has been around awhile.
- nailer 3y agoSame here. Did it and got complaints about sound leakage from my colleagues.
- devnullbrain 3y agoDon't buy open-backed headphones to use in a place with colleagues.
- erik_seaberg 3y agoThis. I’m on (maybe?) my third pair of HD 280 in the office so I can work without hearing everyone nearby, which apparently means they also can’t hear my music.
- ilyt 3y agoI did like using open-backed ones for cycling, can hear what's happening on the road. I was using Grado SR-80 and was kinda surprise how much abuse they handled (in rain/get sprayed by passing car etc.)
- smallstepforman 3y agoDo buy open-backed headphones if you want your ears to breathe. I cannot wear closed headphones for more than 30 mins, while open-backed can be used all day.
- nailer 3y ago(thinking emoji) We need openable vents.
- skrebbel 3y agoI’ll never understand that people get angry about this stuff but not about luxury bags or iPhones. You’re not paying for the bill of material. You’re paying for the research, the engineering, the design and the brand.
- drogus 3y agoYou missed the point entirely. “The research, the engineering, the design and the brand” is almost exactly the same for both models. The problem is that Sennheiser charges you $150 more for pretty much the same headset.
- skrebbel 3y agoSo if Louis Vuitton made a version of their bags that’s the same but a different logo, at only a 50% margin instead of 98% or whatever their current margins are, you’d be angry at them too? But because they only sell the version with the super high margin and not the “crippled” cheaper kind, it’s somehow just fine? Same with iPhones, those margins are huge, they could totally sell you a crippled cheaper version of the same hardware and still make money. They just choose to only sell things at the highest margins, because their UX and brand are so strong. How is “pricing everything super high” fine and “also sell a few cheaper options with lower end-user value” terrible greed? That’s totally upside down to me.
- krab 3y agoIf LV did that, it would damage their brand. People justify paying for premium brands by convincing themselves they get something exclusive. If LV showed you can get the same product, just with a different brand, then it's no longer exclusive. Those who previously believed in the brand would be angry.
- ilyt 3y ago> So if Louis Vuitton made a version of their bags that’s the same but a different logo, at only a 50% margin instead of 98% or whatever their current margins are, you’d be angry at them too? Useless comparison, bag here is only fashion statement, not something you use for technology. And it's weird assumption they made any of them "first", they most likely designed both in parallel (design time != start of production time) and just put worse sounding version in cheaper one to not cannibalize the market.
- Toutouxc 3y agoI have those and have done that immediately when I go them, more than ten years ago. There’s even a Level 2 hack: the honeycomb mesh that the black piece is attached to? That can all go, you can literally cut it out with nail clippers or a similar tool, which gives the headphones even more space to breathe and makes the sound a bit more behaved.
- laserlight 3y agoDrivers seem different to me. Other components don't matter as much. What am I missing?
- jlg23 3y ago> Quite a few people speculated in my Original thread that the more expensive HD595 headphones must also be using a more expensive driver. However, Head-fi member MCC posted the smoking gun; a picture of the original Sennheiser replacement driver labelled “HD 555 / HD 595”. The picture mentioned is in the article, just below what I quoted.
- avianlyric 3y agoDrivers are the same, this is covered at the end of the article. > However, Head-fi member MCC posted the smoking gun; a picture of the original Sennheiser replacement driver labelled “HD 555 / HD 595”.
- throwanem 3y agoI did this years ago to one of my two HD 555s. As with comparing an unmodded 555 to a 595, I've never really been able to hear a difference.
- xenodium 3y agoThere’s a recent buy-it-for-life thread with moderate advocacy for cheaper models. I’m waiting for my £20 ones from Amazon. Let’s see… “Any recommendations on Bluetooth earbuds that are sweat/waterproof, reliable, and well designed?” https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/comments/14a2hry/any_recommendations_on_bluetooth_earbuds_that_are https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/comments/14a2hry/any_r...
- random_upvoter 3y agoThat's an old canard. I tried that about 10 years ago it degraded the quality of the 555. The foam is there for a reason. Ended up buying the 650 which I love to this day.
- timrichard 3y agoAnother vote for the HD650 here. I bought a pair nearly 20 years ago, and they have had plenty of use. About two years ago, I picked up Sennheiser-branded replacement padding for the headband and earcups. Feels like new. You can also get a replacement cable, as it plugs in to the earcups rather than being soldered. It's a nice change from planned obsolescence.
- barbariangrunge 3y agoAgreed: removing the foam gave me headaches
- PragmaticPulp 3y agoUnless someone has actually measured the frequency response, I wouldn’t assume this mod covered 100% of the differences anyway. Sennheiser has several models where the only difference appears to be a trivial piece of damping material, but the measured difference between the two is substantial. You also can’t get the exact foam piece yourself so mods aren’t possible.
- paxys 3y agoAt the onset I thought this would involve something to the effect of flashing the firmware or baking the circuit board, but: > How to do the mod > The foam cushions are removed simply by pulling on them. Lol.
- womitt 3y agoRidiculous lol
- ofalkaed 3y agoThe actual difference between the two models could be that the HD595 had selected and matched drivers, the HD555 getting all the rejects from the 595. This is a fairly common practice.
- tyingq 3y agoCalled "product binning". Though it's also common to segment products that don't have defects/differences by intentionally hobbling them, or even just using different labels when there's no actual difference.
- patchtopic 3y agothough then shouldn't the correct replacement part for the HD595 be a matched pair of drivers?
- ofalkaed 3y agoIf you want a matched stereo image across the spectrum, yes. I have little experience with Sennheiser but most makers of the high end (studio grade at least) will offer both singles and matched pairs and leave it up to the buyer.
- dylan604 3y agoI've bought matched pairs of DJ stylus. The product descriptions waxed poetically about the reasons this was important, and if I cared, it might have even made sense. The sole reason I bought them paired was the simple fact that the pair was cheaper than buying two individuals. The exact same logic was applied when I bought a pair of monitors, and the fact that the seller offered a $50 item for free. If you're into matched pair speakers, what about for surround systems? Do you have to have a matched 4 set or a matched 6 set?
- toast0 3y agoFrom what I can tell, hardcore audiphiles tend to stop at stereo, so there's that. But if you're going to match speakers, I would think you'd want to at least match by type: match your fronts to each other, match your surrounds to each other, match your heights to each other, match your subs to each other. Just having all of one type be the same model is probably good enough though.
- thepostman0 3y agoHd201,about £20 when I bought them ten or more years back. Worth the money. Anything more than this and you're into diminished returns, it just doesn't make sense to step outside the lower part of £30.
- RamRodification 3y agoHighly subjective of course. And you are way into diminishing returns even at £20. These days I have dialed in my sweet spot to around £100 for headphones
- thepostman0 3y agoWe are like 11 and 1 o'clock, so close yet so far. I can't see 100 quid getting five times the headphone experience. Given these have lasted a decade, I don't see myself needing to replace the five times over during the rest of my life. I don't think my ears would be able to distinguish the difference, especially not from pc sound output.
- RamRodification 3y ago> I can't see 100 quid getting five times the headphone experience. Just to be clear, this is not what I'm claiming either, when I choose the £100 headphones. I don't think anyone would make that claim. I find them to be "better", and worth the premium, but absolutely not five times "better". > I don't think my ears would be able to distinguish the difference, especially not from pc sound output. That's all that really matters I guess. You could try to find a way to test a "better" setup (source device + headphones) to see if you are missing out. But you could also absolutely just avoid doing that and just stay happy.
- alpaca128 3y agoIt's absolutely worth to go up to the $100-150 range, the difference is very noticeable. The returns don't diminish as fast as you suggest.
- patchtopic 3y agohas anyone actually done the science and done measurements? with the web awash in measurement nerd hifi addicts you'd think this would have been established. though a moot point as this is an old article, referencing a model no longer available.
- Xen9 3y agoIdea: Scientific headphone studies Double-blind / blind headphone testing where price and manufacturer / model are not revealed. Possibly additional methods; multiple tests in a long timespan, multiple people testing, different locations (studio, sports etc.) and so on. The reviewers are allowed to use any and all digital measuring tools in addition to listening by ear. A rigorous version of this would integrate above in rtings.com headphone testing method.
- rowanG077 3y agoYou don't need human test subjects. You can very accurately measure frequency response.
- znpy 3y agoLinus Sebastian from Linus Tech Tips is doing just that, but better. He got some professional testing equipment and he's building a proper testing environment for headphones and other stuff. Additional details in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwPLhyUgm-g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwPLhyUgm-g disclaimer: i'm not affiliated with LTT in any way
- kimburgess 3y agoThere's a great lecture by Floyd Toole on exactly that for speakers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrpUDuUtxPM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrpUDuUtxPM.
- magicalhippo 3y agoA problem with this is that our ears are very different in shape and size from one person to the next. This can have a non-trivial impact[1] on what a person hears, especially for in-ears. Thus a pair that might measure great might not sound good with your ears. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y41oQTfDWiI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y41oQTfDWiI
- aemreunal 3y agoPeople in Audio Science Review forums do scientific studies of headphones: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/headphone-iem-reviews-discussions.58/ https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/he...
- ttctciyf 3y ago2011 discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2214158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2214158
- Waterluvian 3y agoWelp. I tried this and can’t hear a difference. I guess I might not have the proper audiophile training. Or maybe excessive levels of skepticism made the placebo effect not work. Luckily I didn’t damage them so no loss. I wish there was some more objective way I could measure. Though that’s difficult for obvious reasons. In fact, after getting covid I had tinnitus and everything felt muffled. An audiogram showed that I have above average hearing. But good luck telling my brain that. It’s constantly convinced that everything is muffled and there’s a ringing.
- yadingus 3y agoFWIW in my experience these changes are not immediately noticeable, but once you do get used to better gear, if you were to go back to the old one, then you'd notice the difference. Perhaps not a very viable experiment with this mod, but worth taking into account in general.
- throwanem 3y agoFor almost a decade I've had a modded HD555, and another one that's not modded. I have never been able to tell a difference in audio output between the two. By contrast, moving to strictly better gear (as when I got the first HD555, or when I got the HD6XX that's replaced them both for music listening) is an immediately perceptible step change. Basically, the foam mod is nonsense. I get why it was popular, especially in audiophile circles where snake oil is always at least on the menu and often just is the menu. (Green marker around the rim of a CD, anyone? It makes the bits sound warmer!) At least in the case of the foam mod there's a physically plausible mechanism, which puts it head and shoulders above most audiophile nonsense. But it still does not make a perceptible difference in practice.
- erulabs 3y agoThat’s how so much of life is. Moving up is somewhat “meh” and disappointing, but moving back down feels like a huge downgrade. It’s sort of a bummer!
- 3y ago
- farco12 3y agoI paid $148 USD for the HD595s in 2011. They still work just as well today, but I'm disappointed to find out 14 years later I was conned into paying more for a false premium.
- globular-toast 3y agoReally surprised to see no objective comparison (frequency response curves etc). Are people really happy with a guy pulling out foam from his headphones and saying they sound a bit different (no shit) And he doesn't even own the other model?
- whalesalad 3y agoI’ve never been able to get the hype on Sennheiser. My Sony noise cancelling Bluetooth headphones blow everything else away I’ve ever tried. Even with a DAC (tried two). Sold all my audio gear, no more spider web of Schitt or Focusright gear.
- grumpyprole 3y agoThere is absolutely no contest between an open-back audiophile Sennheiser like HD600 or HD800 and any ANC headphone. I own both these headphones and formerly a Sony MX3. The MX3 is also beaten in sound quality by a Sennheiser Momentum 4. The default sound of the Sony was frankly awful, bloated bass (+5db) that bleeds into the midrange, almost certainly not what most artists intended. They were better with EQ, although still muddy and the built-in EQ didn't work with LDAC. So I never bought another. The HD800 are the best pair of headphones I have ever owned. Incredible soundstage and imaging. They are probably the best anyone could ever do with dynamic drivers. I have a lot of music that I save for these headphones, never wanting to play on the go via Bluetooth. My HD600 are still going strong (having been purchased in the early 90s), thanks to a quality product and availability of spare parts. Sennheiser are a fantastic company and I hope they keep making headphones.
- weevil 3y agoThis mod has been going around for years. I bought a pair of HD 558s in 2012 — phenomenal headphones, still going strong — and I found a number of posts suggesting I do the same thing.
- pcurve 3y agoNot the same, but there was a Blu Tack mod for another model. http://musicalmusings.themindofgame.com/2010/02/hd280-pro-blu-tack-mod/ http://musicalmusings.themindofgame.com/2010/02/hd280-pro-bl... This one DID noticeably improve the quality of sound / bass response.
- mtts 3y agoThere’s also the mod for the HD-439 where you cut away some tape that covers up some holes and you get markedly more bass.
- dopa42365 3y agoSuperlux HD681 Evo (offbrand AKG) + cheap USB DAC (FiiO E10K or so) + Equalizer APO (https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results) = basically as good as it gets, without breaking the bank.
- Krasnol 3y agoEqualizer APO doesn't list the E10k. Could you recommend a different one? I'd like to go and test that since my headphones broke last week and I've been too lazy to dive into the audiophile depths.
- Croftengea 3y agoThe parent comment probably referred to the headphone eq settings that can be exported from AutoEq into Equaliser APO. AutoEq deals with headphones, not amplifiers.
- jug 3y agoI did this to mine. I think the sound did get slightly more airy but also the sound leakage was through the roof. If you're single though, I can only recommend.
- mmmBacon 3y agoHW engineer here. So it’s generally not true that you’re getting the same product at half the cost. Firstly, while all the HW may actually be the “same” it’s probably been binned for different specs. This means that the yield is lower for higher performing parts. 2nd is that for the same HW there may be additional FW and test time associated with that HW. Both of those items equate to higher cost.
- activitypea 3y agoI believe anybody who's shopped for a desktop CPU in the past decade knows this. The difference is that a Ryzen 5600X costs 10-15% more than a regular 5600, not twice as much and then some.
- crote 3y agoThey are often intentionally mis-binned, though: it is quite common for there to be more high-specced parts than there is demand for, so they'd rather downgrade it to a cheaper variant than have it rot on a shelf. So if you're lucky, you end up with a product which significantly outperforms its official label.
- mmmBacon 3y agoThere is something called yielded cost. The actual same part that yields to a higher bin costs more due to lower yield. So it’s very unusual to sell it for less. You see the same thing in TV monitors. The best displays, representing the best of the distribution sell for way more. What does happen is that you can get parts at the edge of the spec that are almost as good but whether you get one of those is purely random.
- acd 3y agoHad my Sennheiser headphones for more than 20 years they still work and sound great! :)
- BadJo0Jo0 3y agoLoved my HD555s, did the foam removal instantly, but wouldn't say it was a game changer. Rocked the Zalman clip on mic and moved on to doing the 3.5mm detachable mod and used a V-Moda BoomPro. Still a great setup today, especially for gaming. Sadly lacking in bass.