18 ms·

Brave Browser introduces vertical tabs

288 points by czottmann 3y ago

biggestfan 3y ago
It's strange to me how a key selling point of these vertical tabs is "save on vertical space", but they almost always still include a header bar. You can see in the video they posted that it saves almost no vertical space, while now taking up a massive amount of horizontal space.
- kevincox 3y ago
  That's a cool idea. Move the rest of the browser chrome into the left bar as well. Less of vertical tabs as an entire vertical chrome.
- abdullahkhalids 3y ago
  They certainly do save space on Firefox (with the right config). In the default setting, there is OS title bar, then a address+icon bar, then the tab bar. After installing sidebar tabs, you can remove the tab bar with some css, which saves about 5% of the vertical screen space.
  - kitsunesoba 3y ago
    You can also remove that unnecessarily large sidebar header that Firefox insists on not letting users disable via normal means with userchrome mods. Some such setups can be seen at https://firefoxcss-store.github.io/ https://firefoxcss-store.github.io/.
  - zamadatix 3y ago
    "tab bar in titlebar" has been the Firefox default for a number of years at this point. If Linux, your distro/packager of choice may have overridden that. The only true exception to this is tile based WMs (which don't have title bars) but in that case it's still above by default.
    - abdullahkhalids 3y ago
      You are correct. I have been using sidebar tabs for probably a decade now, so I had completely forgotten about the redesign.
- amelius 3y ago
  Perhaps we should just make monitors in 4:3 like we used to instead of 16:9 which is ridiculous since we typically don't watch movies in the office.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > Perhaps we should just make monitors in 4:3 like we used to instead of 16:9 which is ridiculous since we don't typically watch movies in the office. That's on the right track, but going too far. 16:10 or 3:2 is much more reasonable. The idea of using 16:9 screens for work needs to die in a fire.
    - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
      IMO the closer the ratio gets to 1 the better but the only fact I have for this is 1280x1024 (5:4) being better than 1024x768 (4:3)
      - pezezin 3y ago
        Meanwhile here I am, using an ultrawide 21:9 monitor and loving it as I can easily split it in two or three columns whenever I need. I don't understand why people like squarish monitors so much, the human FOV is not square.
        jorvi 3y ago
        Widescreen and especially ultrawide makes sense with bigger screens but is terrible on laptop-sizes screens, at least outside of media consumption.
        Sakos 3y ago
        How is the human FOV relevant? I just want to be able to fit as much vertical content into the visible area as possible. Because almost all documents we use are vertically organized.
  - square_usual 3y ago
- tivert 3y ago
  > It's strange to me how a key selling point of these vertical tabs is "save on vertical space", but they almost always still include a header bar. Honestly, that's not the main selling point of vertical tabs for me. Horizontal tabs don't scale for more than a dozen or so, but vertical tabs do. The "wasted" horizontal space is useless for reading most page, but displays enough data for practical navigation, and the vertical organization allows more-developed vertical scrolling technologies to be used with the tab list (e.g. scroll wheels).
  - alpaca128 3y ago
    > the vertical organization allows more-developed vertical scrolling technologies to be used with the tab list (e.g. scroll wheels). Firefox also lets you scroll the tabs horizontally. Which I prefer to Brave's approach of simply not displaying the last tabs in the bar if it's too many, which means newly opened tabs simply never show up while the others are shrunk so far they become difficult to hit with the cursor.
    - eviks 3y ago
      But it's easier to scroll vertically, also because the scroll area is bigger
- nicklevin 3y ago
  Arc moves the header bar stuff (URL) to the left pane, so the entire right pane is site content.
  - imbnwa 3y ago
    Arc is way ahead on browser UX. Opening links in Pinned Tabs into a modal over the Pinned Tab content is exactly how I want to use link aggregator sites
  - st380752143 3y ago
    I hope Arc's vertical tab could support nesting/tree feature, which is really useful.
- pfist 3y ago
  You can hide the title bar while vertical tabs are enabled. I am using it on a laptop and it feels great.
- 6510 3y ago
  I struggle finding good page <titles> with the amount of space browsers give you. You should at least be able to see which tab is what if you have 3 for a website.
- chaxor 3y ago
  The trick is to hide all extra stuff like address bar, tabs, settings, OS related bars, etc. and alonly show the browser stuff upon Ctrl+L. It's so much nicer, especially with an wm that's just gets out of the way - awesomewm
- eviks 3y ago
  Yes, they don't follow their own principles to the logical conclusion In Vivaldi it's much better - you can get rid of the header bar completely and only have the search/tool bar, styled to be narrower, saves real space And since horizontal space is cheap in most websites, the latter part is less of an issue (though you still don't need it to be massive)
- princevegeta89 3y ago
  Saving 40px of vertical space in lieu of losing 120px of horizontal space?
  - dietr1ch 3y ago
    When was the last time that those 120px of horizontal space made a difference? I can use 2 windows side by side and the pane just eats horizontal padding on most sites because narrow columns are prettier and easier to read.
meghan_rain 3y ago
aka bookmarks
- chrisco255 3y ago
  who needs bookmarks when you can have 750 tabs open at once?
  - 1MachineElf 3y ago
    The latter is more valuable to the ad tech industry. In fact, they benefit from browsers with crippled bookmarking systems. Every time a user types in "facebook" instead of facebook.com into the omnibar, that user is directed to a Google/Bing/Brave Search page with ads.
    - jollyllama 3y ago
      I can't live with Braves terrible bookmark manager, and inability to save history for more than a few months. But I can't live without the flawless ad blocking.
      - elforce002 3y ago
        Same. I can't live without ad blocking + ublock. I don't remember the last time I saw an ad and I'm happy for that.
      - olifante 3y ago
        Yet here you are, alive and commenting on HN.
        jollyllama 3y ago
        For now. But were it not for my comment history, there'd be no trace of my reading this thread in X months.
    - chrisco255 3y ago
bandzest 3y ago
I was waiting for the 'Arc'-ening to happen.
- hiidrew 3y ago
  I just want the shift-ctrl-c to be in every browser. Probably my favorite feature from Arc.
  - greenie_beans 3y ago
    ah! nice! thanks!
  - quesera 3y ago
    Don't leave us hanging...
    - blairbeckwith 3y ago
      I believe they mean shift-cmd-c and it copies the current URL to the clipboard. Comparable to cmd-L + cmd-C in one keystroke.
      - quesera 3y ago
        Thanks! (Not a user of the browser in question) But Cmd+L+C is exactly the same number of sequential keypresses as Cmd+Shift+C. So I guess Firefox has this desirable behaviour covered!
        mikelward 3y ago
        With the caveat that it changes where the cursor is.
        chenmike 3y ago
        Also it requires both hands
SxC97 3y ago
Looks like there’s no tree functionality. I’ll be sticking with Orion for the time being.
- thunderbong 3y ago
  Or Vivaldi, which even lets you rename the group of tabs!
  - dvdgsng 3y ago
    When I need to collect multiple tabs for a specific topic/task I've found workspaces to be much more practical than tab groups.
stranded22 3y ago
I have just found that ‘disable JavaScript’ in Brave on iOS removes ‘Promoted Posts’ on Reddit on mobile. So, looks like I’ll move to that when Apollo shuts down. Works with Twitter too - I’m a noob smh. *looks like I’m wrong- now not loading. Oh well.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Are the vertical tabs available on iOS also? I could see it being useful on iPad, but not iPhone.
DerekBickerton 3y ago
Never liked vertical tabs. Horses for courses, personal preference and all that. My muscle memory for normal/horizontal tab layouts is so ingrained in me, that using anything different would take on a huge unlearning.
- dschuessler 3y ago
  I want to like them because they save vertical space, and you can always read the page titles, regardless of how many tabs you have open. But as with you, my muscle memory gets in the way.
- witchesindublin 3y ago
  It becomes useful if you need to sort through dozens of tabs or use a touchscreen.
whatscooking 3y ago
I care more about having enough horizontal space to do split view than I care about having 10px of vertical space
- joaopms 3y ago
  For me it's opposite! Since I have a ultrawide 1080p monitor (2560x1080), I actually prefer to "waste" horizontal space :)
gnicholas 3y ago
I’ve been using this on Brave dev for several months. It’s great! I hope they enable nested tabs, which I loved having in TST on Firefox.
james_pm 3y ago
Everyone is copying Arc. Microsoft showed a similar design to what Arc has along with vertical tabs.
- miohtama 3y ago
  Tree Style Tabs were released for Firefox around 2007 https://piro.sakura.ne.jp/xul/_treestyletab.html.en#history https://piro.sakura.ne.jp/xul/_treestyletab.html.en#history I am not sure if someone like Opera was earlier, but Arc is likely copying this.
  - Lammy 3y ago
    > I am not sure if someone like Opera was earlier OmniWeb 5.0, 2004: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2004/02/ow5/3/#tabs https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2004/02/ow5/3/#tabs
    - stonogo 3y ago
      Opera 4 had them in 2000. Opera 3 might have, but it won't run on Windows 10 so I can't easily check. edit: Started up a VM -- Opera 3 didnt have tabs at all, although it did already have an MDI.
      - fellowniusmonk 3y ago
        I used Opera over other browsers for a long time for performance reasons, it had M2, my favorite email client ever to this day, which got rid of traditional "folders", there's an alternate timeline somewhere where Opera won the browser wars and they already have flying cars and a federated web.
    - cosmotic 3y ago
      Windows common controls had side-aligned tabs around 1997
      - pgeorgi 3y ago
TradingPlaces 3y ago
Kagi’s Orion browser also has this. I like it.
zcmack 3y ago
close your damn tabs, heathens
CoBE10 3y ago
I've been using Firefox with Tab Center Reborn, and a config which collapses the tabs so only the favicons are visible. Using Shift-Tab, Ctrl-Shift-Tab and Ctrl-T, Ctrl-W to go around and open/close is so logical for me. First time I heard about Tree style tabs I was so against them because they occupied significant amount of space and I didn't know you could collapse them. I don't see myself ever going back horizontal tabs. Vertical is so much better, especially on smaller screen (like 1366x768), where horizontal space isn't needed that much as vertical is. My setup: https://i.imgur.com/sZ8zdol.png https://i.imgur.com/sZ8zdol.png
- miohtama 3y ago
  Tree Style Tabs work well, because screen estate is not wasted on 16:9 and 16:10 style displays. Web browsing is mostly reading task and because of usability, line length cannot exceed a certain width. Thus, there is more screen estate horizontally around the page than vertically on top and bottom of the page you are reading.
  - smoe 3y ago
    I liked vertical tabs on my main monitor where there is plenty of space. But on the laptop, especially with using split screen i got too crowded. I have since made the tabs completely invisible and just navigate trough them with the Vimium extension. This has some quirks because of the limitations a browser extension has, but I now much prefer to just use keyboard shortcuts and search to jump to tabs.
  - f33d5173 3y ago
    There is the issue of pages which are designed only for very wide screens and for mobile. In between screen sizes will cause the main content to be annoyingly skinny, if it isn't totally unreadable. These sites are relatively rare, thankfully.
- fjcp 3y ago
  @CoBE10 Tried this extension and found it better for me than Tree Style Tab. Your config is a custom CSS? Would you mind sharing it? Thanks!
game_the0ry 3y ago
I really liked brave and this is an interesting feature, but I had to stop using it when I tried syncing my bookmarks - for some reason, a bunch ended up duplicating, and I have a lot of bookmarks that are well organized. Otherwise, I would have kept using it - it was fast and energy efficient on my intel macbook, way better than chrome. I also have to say - I hate when I have so many tabs open. It's basically a manifestation of my ADHD. I need to focus one thing at a time.
- NayamAmarshe 3y ago
  They've improved the sync functionality a lot this year. It's much faster and reliable now.
elbrian 3y ago
I see the name “Brave Browser” and my brain just refuses to engage. Their marketing team ruined the product for me before I ever got the chance to try it.
- gota 3y ago
  What do you mean? Do you feel anxious about having to rent a tuxedo when someone mentions Opera? I jest, but I don't think I get what you are implying. What is the difference between this fantasy name and any other that is also an existing noun?
  - lagniappe 3y ago
    > What do you mean? For once can we just skip the inevitable discussion that takes place in every single brave thread?
    - gota 3y ago
      I am sorry, I am truly not aware. I'll google it but appreciate a link if you have it at hand. Thanks and sorry - I didn't mean to start a thread that is not useful for most people
      - kyleee 3y ago
        A probably incomplete list of gripes: * cryptocurrency related bits, relation to BAT token * Fiasco where they collected earnings on behalf of creators without their consent/knowledge/optin * Run by Brendan Eich who some people don’t like because he created javascript, and/or is not supportive of gay people in some ways I am sure I am forgetting some
        temptemptemp111 3y ago
        [dead]
- EMM_386 3y ago
slily 3y ago
Why do people need dozens or hundreds of tabs to the point that they need groups for them? We've had bookmarks (and folders for them) for decades... It made way more sense when you could expect tabs to always be loaded, and not behave like another set of bookmarks.
- kitsunesoba 3y ago
  Bookmarks have management overhead and are too easily forgotten about. For a lot of people tabs serve as a sort of to-do list or with groups, repositories for sites that will briefly be useful for a certain task in the near future. They naturally get closed as they’re done with, eschewing any kind of cleanup step as is necessary with bookmarks.
  - slily 3y ago
    That sounds like how I use tabs but doesn't explain how people end up with enough tabs open to make them impossible to navigate in a horizontal layout and without grouping them. When I'm done with a tab, I close it. If I'm going back to it later, I leave it and... go back to it later. If I don't, I close it... or I bookmark it. I don't see how you go from using tabs as a short-term "read later" feature to having several dozens of them open at any given time. And while deleting bookmarks takes a second to do, so does going through your tabs to get rid of the ones that haven't been useful in 2 months. Personally, if I run out of horizontal space I consider it a good reminder to clean up, but then I see people with so many tabs that all they see is a ton of icons, and I wonder if they even know that bookmarks exist. That image came to mind as I read some of the other comments under this post, and I feel like we're just reinventing bookmarks for people who don't realize that bookmarks exist (bookmarks have been deemphasized for a while through trends like hiding the bookmarks toolbar by default).
- arp242 3y ago
  Usually what happens is stuff like like: - I spend time researching X, have a few pages open for that, get bored with it, want to continue in a few days. - I work on X, which has a few related tabs open, and I need to switch to Y for a bit. - There's a long-term thing I'm working on and off. - Something I found and want to look at later; "bookmarks-light" (bookmarks might as well be /dev/null for me).
svet_0 3y ago
Brave gives a very bad vibe (mostly due to the affiliate links scandal), I prefer to just use my favorite browsers (ff/edge) + uBlock Origin and Privacy Badger which give good privacy/adblock experience, are open source and customizable to my liking.
- justsee 3y ago
  A minor autocomplete mistake from 2 years ago (quickly fixed and apologised for by the CEO [1]) is framed as a 'scandal'. Meanwhile Mozilla is showing signs of serious, systemic internal org issues, and no problem? [2] It's pretty clear a user / privacy-first model is central to Brave's mission, so these drive-by comments griping loudly about minor, historical issues never feel intellectually compelling. [1] https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269317625915400192 https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269317625915400192 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36077360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36077360
- mcint 3y ago
  Brave's encroachments can be turned off. On a new install, I disable the search bar Rewards icon, extensions area Wallet, and new tab page Sponsored Images, News, and Cards. (And maybe others still). Each of these requires active engagement from a user to produce and signal for a 3rd party. Meanwhile, they also fund novel privacy and security research [1], including preventing advanced fingerprinting. In essence, the maintain a patch set on top of Chromium (the open source base of Chrome, that Edge also builds on) which more convincingly respects user privacy, security, and choice[2][3][4]. See how much effort they put into keeping Brave Ads convincingly private [5]. Each of these is less intrusive than changes (to stay recent and relevant) include direct partnership for promotions [6]. Or to base beliefs on a series of news reports that sound bad, see a longer list [7], though it's quite noisy list. [1]: https://brave.com/research/ https://brave.com/research/ [2]: https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/14942 https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/14942 [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federated_Learning_of_Cohorts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federated_Learning_of_Cohorts [4]: https://brave.com/why-brave-disables-floc/ https://brave.com/why-brave-disables-floc/ [5]: https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/360026361072-Brave-Ads-FAQ https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/360026361072-Bra... [6]: https://itsfoss.com/firefox-looking-glass-controversy/ https://itsfoss.com/firefox-looking-glass-controversy/ [7]: https://chefkochblog.wordpress.com/2022/03/03/mozilla-history-of-scandals/ https://chefkochblog.wordpress.com/2022/03/03/mozilla-histor...
elforce002 3y ago
Ngl, I'm digging this feature.
zamadatix 3y ago
Anyone remember the "Compact Navigation" test Chrome did ~a decade ago? https://pureinfotech.com/how-to-enable-compact-navigation-feature-in-google-chrome/ https://pureinfotech.com/how-to-enable-compact-navigation-fe... It had a major downside of putting browser chrome over the page area and hiding the URL. Over time the latter has become the default anyways but the former is still iffy. Safari approached this concept more recently, as the only browser I'm aware with this as an officially supported option, but put the URL bar directly in the tab, which is a bit more awkward to use. On Vivaldi there is the option to hide it but then activate it via a keyboard shortcut/gesture, which functions similarly but can cause extra switching between keyboard based navigation and mouse based navigation (the latter of which can be very hard to avoid). Because of the way Vivaldi is implemented it's always performed a lot worse than other Chromium based browsers for me as well. In Firefox there were several CSS hacks for this but it was constantly falling apart on updates so I gave up on it. I guess the long story short is: as a very light tab user (1-8 throughout the day) I miss this old option in Chrom* greatly.
adr1an 3y ago
Sidebery firefox addon, among others, saves you of making richer CEOs that are against human rights (search for brendan eich homophobia).
scelerat 3y ago
OmniWeb (from Omnigroup, developers of OmniGraffle, OmniPlan, OmniOutliner et al) was their web browser offering in a particularly fecund period of browser development in the early 2000s, which had vertical tabs. The tabs themselves were little thumbnails of the contents of the web page in question. I used OmniWeb as my main browser for many years, right up until Firebug and Firefox became the preferred development environment. Great browser, a lot of great UI ideas out of that shop.
- Cyberdog 3y ago
  OmniWeb was great! I think Opera still did it first, though. I moved on to Safari after it died, but I missed vertical tabs dearly and still do. Hopefully this idea catches on well enough for the Safari team to finally steal it.
  - nomel 3y ago
    Yes, I remember Opera having it around that same time, and Firefox having a plugin to copy it. I think the Firefox plugin had full "tab tree" support though. I believe it died after one of the many updates that changed how plugins worked, although I haven't checked in a couple of decades to see if something similar has appeared.
    - niutech 3y ago
      You can still have tab tree in Firefox using Tree Style Tab (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-tab/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...)
  - sundarurfriend 3y ago
    Opera was the Xerox PARC of web browsers in a lot of ways.
    - arp242 3y ago
      Except that you could actually use it instead of being a legendary project we only heard about but very few people actually used. That makes it all the more painful that it was taken away.
ameminator 3y ago
I've had vertical tabs in Vivaldi for a little while now. I hope you guys enjoy it over on Brave as well, they change how you use tabs. Strongly recommended.
- voidon 3y ago
  Vivaldi is great, but I've hidden the tab bar, and use the window panel instead. Then you get a nice tree view of tabs (nested, grouped by domain etc) and windows. Kind of treating my tabs as bookmarks, which is probably why it consumes a lot of memory :-) I guess the last part is fixed in later chromium by hibernating tabs now?
ojkelly 3y ago
The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that I want a browser that functions like an IDE. Multiple panes with tabs, that can be resized either to custom sizes or automatically (binary space partitioning). It’s too much for a general purpose browser, which is how we’ve got the Chrome, Safari, Firefox we have. But I think the appeal of a more information-dense browser is broader than we think, anyone doing research would benefit from it.
- sphars 3y ago
  Vivaldi can do tab tiling. Not nearly as customizable as an IDE as you describe, but you can vertically or horizontally tile multiple tabs on the same "page". Only browser I know that has that close of functionality https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/tabs/tab-tiling/ https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/tabs/tab-tiling/
  - nsonha 3y ago
    Arc Browser does it but currently closed beta, I have spare invitations if you need.
    - hxii 3y ago
      I wanted to try it since I couldn't understand what the fuss was about, then I saw it's still in closed beta. What are your impressions of it?
      - mthoms 3y ago
        I'm not the person you asked but I love it. It's actually solved my tab hoarding problem and made my life so much simpler. Caveat: I'm an ADHD sufferer so my experience may not be typical.
        hxii 3y ago
        I actually have ADHD(I) as well, and have been trying to battle tab/bookmark hoarding myself. It seems Vivaldi is working well, but I was wondering what Arc has to offer.
omneity 3y ago
The crypto wallet video ad in the middle of the article is intrusive and frankly infuriating, especially when there is no video illustrating the lifecycle of the new vertical tabs.
- lern_too_spel 3y ago
  That's Brave for you. The founder is a crypto nut, and the browser is adware (shows ads itself instead of merely rendering ads on third party websites).
  - donw 3y ago
    Brave is my daily driver. Haven't seen an ad in... years. For crypto or otherwise.
  - NayamAmarshe 3y ago
    > and the browser is adware Been using the browser for 2 years and yet to see an ad.
    - orbital-decay 3y ago
      Because you opted out. The browser is ad-supported though, their whole business model is supposedly built on the users opting in to view strictly controlled ads for cryptocurrency rewards, at the same time stripping the existing ads from the sites, forcing the websites to use Brave Software as the middleman if they want a share of their ad revenue.
      - NayamAmarshe 3y ago
        Brave Rewards are disabled by default, along with the wallet, VPN and other things. Most features in Brave are opt-in, not opt-out. I don't know why people think otherwise. This is not Chrome or Edge.
        orbital-decay 3y ago
ChubbyGlasses 3y ago
More and more I've wanted a browser based on WebKit/Blink from a company with the original Mozilla's values. I know this will get a lot of flack, but Gecko feels way too antiquated for what I want out of a modern browser. Not to mention, browsers are significantly complicated that splitting developer efforts just doesn't seem like a good idea; Firefox keeps falling further behind in term of modern features.
drunkan 3y ago
The Orion browser has had this for a while and has the best native implementation by far I just hope they don’t remain pigeonholed into apple OS as they currently are
bradgessler 3y ago
The more enhancements I see browser vendors making to tabs, the more I think they’re reinventing bookmarks/favorites. Safari introduced “tab groups” a while back, which to me is an insane mess of complexity. When I think about it though they’re just folders and each tab is a bookmark/favorite. The vertical tabs in Brave remind me of bookmarks/favorites too.
- prng2021 3y ago
  I don’t follow. Tabs are nothing like favorites. You go to a favorite and open links within it in new tabs. Eventually the tabs will be closed and you’ll often never visit those links ever again, as opposed to a favorite. As for tab groups, I could never get used to them, but I do use vertical tabs and find them quite useful.
- viktree 3y ago
  This is one feature I like in the Arc Browser. Persistent tabs are bookmarks, and bookmarks are just as accessible as regular tabs.
  - Ancapistani 3y ago
    Not exactly. Arc has "pinned tabs", but not "bookmarks". While they can be used similarly, I find it quite annoying to use the search to pull something out of my "bookmarks", only to have it open a directory hierarchy eight levels deep when I switch to it. Likewise, if I navigate away from the page on the pinned tab, I lose my "bookmark".
- Tagbert 3y ago
  For me, tab groups are nothing like bookmarks. Tab groups are a way of managing already open tabs in related group; showing and hiding groups as you need them. I use a similar tool in Firefox and I always have tabs related to about 4-5 projects open at once. I use the tab group tool to switch between the tabs by project so I only need to deal with 10-15 tabs at once. These are tabs that I don’t want to close as they have context and sometimes ongoing edits. It’s a bit like having multiple windows each with tabs but this keeps it together in one window and makes it easier to manager. Without this, I would be facing 50-75 tabs and trying to figure out which ones were related to the project I needed to work on at the current time.
iJohnDoe 3y ago
Queue the incoming Mozilla and Google employees to start spewing, “Brave has Crypto!”. Brave has been the best innovation in browsers in recent years. A pleasure to use. Kudos to them and their users for putting up with all the hate.
hedora 3y ago
A while back, I switched to just using private mode all the time, and haven’t looked back. The main problem I have now is that I have trouble finding old stuff because internet search keeps getting worse. Bookmarks aren’t really a solution because they are not searchable, and I’m bad at predicting what I will want to re-read in 5-10 years.
- a5aAqU 3y ago
  In Firefox, the bookmarks are in a sqlite database that you could probably query with an extension or other tool. https://stackoverflow.com/a/740183 https://stackoverflow.com/a/740183
joduplessis 3y ago
Nice. For some reason, vertical tabs just have never taken for me.
- dietr1ch 3y ago
  Do you actually like the favicon sized tabs? Or do you have self-control and only open a reasonable amount of tabs?
  - joduplessis 3y ago
    Lol! I have the decency to open multiple browser windows (large monitor). But, ja - unfortunately I tend to send stuff to the bookmark-graveyard quite quickly.
smrtinsert 3y ago
Vertical everything. It makes everything so easy to read and scan. I encourage vertical definitions for jr devs, especially ones tempted to put a 20 conditional if statement horizontally (no I don't want to talk about it).
eviks 3y ago
Been using that in Vivaldi and it's great, glad to see i this UI feature moving elsewhere
kusuriya 3y ago
Im conflicted, I like the general idea behind brave, their vertical tabs look good, but the browser deeply integrates this crypto grift and robs sites I visit and have their ads allowed of their revenue then wants them to "opt-in" to their grift to get the money they stole.
- aero-glide2 3y ago
  You can literally disable it in the welcome screen when you first install.
- NayamAmarshe 3y ago
  They're disabled by default. It's better to try it out than to read opinions on the internet about the browser and form a viewpoint, I say this because I too have been guilty of the same.
  - vegetable 3y ago
    IIRC, the background processes for these ad and crypto services still run in the background even when you disable them. I haven't checked the browser in a long while. But it's easily verifiable by opening the brave task manager. Quick Google result: https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/5429 https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/5429
    - NayamAmarshe 3y ago
      No that's not the case. I just checked. The GitHub issues that you linked also are closed. I followed the duplicates and they're all closed with comments mentioning that it's been fixed.
      - vegetable 3y ago
        I checked to. On my computer, with a fresh install, i have to kill Utility: Bat Ledger Service from the brave task manager every time the browser is started. Thankfully it stays closed. The ads and crypto stuff are also not exactly as simple to opt out as "literally disable it in the welcome screen when you first install" as one commenter enthusiastically mentioned.
iansinnott 3y ago
Now if only you could hide the tab-favicon sidebar... Arc does this, but they don't give you the URL bar. It may sound nitpicky (and it is) but I really want the hidden tab sidebar AND a visible URL bar. Here's hoping either Arc or Brave will make this an option.
- bestest 3y ago
  I'm on Arc. If you're ok with the url bar being visible where you want it to be visible — you can trigger it per-domain (tab?) then this is how it looks like when you enable Developer Mode for a "site": https://shottr.cc/s/H7dA/SCR-20230602-dhd.png https://shottr.cc/s/H7dA/SCR-20230602-dhd.png
  - iansinnott 3y ago
    Thanks for this. I had seen that once on localhost and wondered how to get that URL bar for all URLs. I didn't know you could use it per-domain, which may be good enough. Cheers.
- justdep 3y ago
  I really want this option too. The dev mode hack works but it's not very pretty in the least.
wly_cdgr 3y ago
Why would they do something so controversial yet so brave?
nine_k 3y ago
Maybe eventually mainstream browsers will get to the level of functionality of Firefox + Tree Style Tabs. (Sadly, I can't call Firefox all that mainstream today.)
hardwaresofton 3y ago
If you think this is awesome you should check out a browser a friend of mine is building called Horse (yes, called “horse”) https://browser.horse/ https://browser.horse/ The reason I like it is that he’s unified tabs and bookmarks almost, it’s a great UX that looks like some things you might have seen but still feels different. He’s also got wicked design sense — but I’m biased so. I also feel like I’m doing him a disservice — he’s got one of those silly lifetime deals going right now.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  I'm curious but somewhat discouraged by the lack of a single screenshot. I don't want to install a minimalist browser that won't have extension capability and a lot of other features just to see if I like one thing that it does.
  - hardwaresofton 3y ago
    I'm so sorry, this is actually great advice for my friend, I'm sending it to him right now, here's a screenshot: https://twitter.com/PascalPixel/status/1585224743480721408 https://twitter.com/PascalPixel/status/1585224743480721408 I've passed it on, hopefully he'll have the website updated with a screenshot in like... 10 mins
    - anigbrowl 3y ago
      This does look spiffy despite the other limitations. I fully agree that treed history makes far more sense than a flat list and wonder why this has been such a blind spot for other developers. I'll give it a whirl.
- hellcow 3y ago
  > Application error: a client-side exception has occurred (see the browser console for more information).
  - hardwaresofton 3y ago
itsbits 3y ago
Have been using same via Chromium Edge browser. I also like workspaces feature. It's very handy to give some context to the group of tabs.
bestest 3y ago
Arc has been using this approach from the beginning — https://arc.net/gift/a192125e https://arc.net/gift/a192125e (here's an invite for whoever would like to try it out). The more I think about it — the more Arc reminds me of an IDE. A browser IDE of a kind.
Pxtl 3y ago
I tend to dock my windows taskbar left for the same reasons and I'm not upgrading to 11 until they let me keep that.
khwhahn 3y ago
More browsers need to make "tab categories" available. It really helps to organize your tab clutter by topic.
morsch 3y ago
Vertical tabs without nesting (trees) is such a wasted opportunity. Nesting lets you close/minimise/etc a group of a related tabs, eg. all the search results you opened from a single query. I hope Brave's implementation at least lets you switch tabs using the mouse wheel, which is probably my favorite feature of the Firefox vertical tabs addons. BTW, I was a TST user for many years, and recently switched to Sidebery, which seems to do the same and more, but is a bit more polished.
- nathan_phoenix 3y ago
  Can also recommend Sideberry. Amazing addon!
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Brave currently offers groups, which can be minimized to achieve some of the effect you mention. But like you, I'm hoping they bring true nesting in the future!
- gautier_ 3y ago
  The only thing those Firefox extension lack is the ability to hide native tabs (I understand that this is a limitation of Firefox extension APIs). You have to manually modify your userChrome.css to do so.
  - zanellato19 3y ago
    You mean hiding the top bar, right?
    - ktm5j 3y ago
      Yes, that's what they're talking about. It ends up wasting space to have your vertical tab sidebar without the ability to hide the default tab bar at the top of the window.
  - yomlica8 3y ago
    I swear they said they were going to add hiding the top tab bar back in as a native option back in 2017, but I'm still using the userChrome.css hack today.
scns 3y ago
Love it. Vimiums keys for switching tabs are reversed though. K goes down and J up. Still easier to remember than which one goes left/right.
usrbinbash 3y ago
This basically adresses my biggest gripe with tabs in an elegant way: The primary input mechanism for dealing with a large amount of "list entries" in any GUI software, nowadays is scrolling. While scrolling can be implemented in horizontal tabs, browsers prevented it from being used efficiently. Tabs all have to fit on that bar, and if they don't, for some reason you couldn't scroll but had to click little buttons, or if you could scoll, it wouldve been a bad UX, since tabs horizontal scrolling goes too fast for the user, or takes too long. Vertical tabs. Nice. From now on, any browser not offering this feature, shouldn't even bother applying. Nicely done Brave!
- rejectfinite 3y ago
  >Vertical tabs. Nice. From now on, any browser not offering this feature, shouldn't even bother applying. Nicely done Brave! Been a thing for years in old Opera first Firefox has extensions for it Edge and Vivaldi has it native
- Sakos 3y ago
  I would more describe it the following way. Vertical tabs solve a core issue in horizontal tabs. Tabs are inherently 2D: the number of tabs vs the length of their titles. Horizontal tabs can scale only to one dimension. You can choose to either see many of your tabs at once, but not be able to read any of the titles, or be able to read the titles but have to scroll absurd distances just to view what tabs are open. Vertical tabs give you a 2-dimensional view of your tabs. You can see many of your tabs and be able to read as much of the titles you want by scaling the horizontal size of the area independently. I think it's brilliant. I also don't see how browsers could "fix" horizontal tabs without resorting to taking away valuable vertical space from the content that is the primary purpose of browsers.
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  Window frames should allow any tab on any edge, because it's a useful method of organizing the tabs! You should be able to easily drag any tab to the top, bottom, left, or right edge of the window, and pop up pie menus on the tab to perform window management (and custom) commands on the tab or all tabs on the same edge, including covered-up windows. For example: Lots of "todo" tabs on the left, "done" tabs on the right, a few "in progress" tabs along the top, "problem" tabs along the bottom, so you can drag tabs between "todo" to "in progress", "problem", or "done", or select "close all left tabs" from a pie menu to clear out the "done" tasks, to easily manage your tasks with tabs. You could even partition edges into different groups of tabs, if you wanted. And manage multiple tiled windows inside the frame. A pie menu on the tab will let you open it up to full frame, split to bottom, split to top (with the obvious directions). Any sub-dialogs a window opens up could have their tabs laid out in a stack along a certain edge from a certain corner. You could designate edges (or sections of adjacent edges corresponding to tiled windows) to show the tabs of sub-windows of the selected window (to implement tree browsers). The app or document in the frame should be able to export custom commands that appear on the tab pie menu, so you can do stuff with the window without bringing it to the top or disturbing the currently displayed windows. The point is that the user should be able to decide what tabs to put where for what reason, not that one edge is the right edge and all other edges or wrong, or using more than one edge at a time is wrong.
noobdev9000 3y ago
Tabs are entirely useless and wrong abstraction. Look at VSCode, you just use Command Palette to search for anything. That's good
- fragmede 3y ago
  Even Chrome has a down arrow top right of each window. Click that and type in the tab you want to find.
- dagurp 3y ago
  You can do this in Vivaldi. Just hide the tab bar and use F2 to search for tab.
hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago
Firefox has tree style tabs, and no crypto. Win win
- readerbaza 3y ago
  Reason I dropped chrome around 2011/2012, they removed the options to have tabs laid vertically as not enough users used it (it was an hidden option and badly implemented). Tree style tabs is the main reason I've used firefox since. Tabs are really a bad design, maybe made some sense with 4:3 monitors but text was horizontal back then too.
deafpolygon 3y ago
It looks nearly identical to Edge's vertical tab.
DanielHB 3y ago
no tab preview like old opera? That was like my favourite feature
mmphosis 3y ago
No tabs is my preference https://iili.io/Hrtppup.png https://iili.io/Hrtppup.png
aka-ani 3y ago
What I've learned trying to analyse my preference for vertical tabs is that it's not so much about saving horizontal space vs vertical space. It's more just about showing more information on screen before needing to scroll. With regular horizontal tabs you either squeeze all tabs to fit the window width, in which case you stop being able to read page titles at some point. Or you have a horizontal scroll on the tab bar which also means you can only read so many titles on screen (probably fewer) before needing to scroll. The vertical tabs switch this up by being able to show a larger number of tab titles before you have to scroll down. Of course this depends on the width of your vertical tab sidebar but having word wrap or configurable height on horizontal tab bars isn't ever presented as an option so can't compare. Another clue to understanding my preference was when I realised I actually really like being able to have multiple rows of horizontal tabs vs a horizontally scrolling tab bar. So I think it just came down to the density of information visually available before having to do any scrolling. I do think it all just comes down to personal preferences and muscle memory and individual use cases (for example, some people like having 50+ tabs open, others don't). So I am very hesitant to call one approach better. I just don't understand why we can't have both options more available everywhere.
DonHopkins 3y ago
Now all it needs is pie menus (like in Blender, The Sims, etc) that you can pop up by clicking on the tabs, and it will be as fun, efficient, and easy to use as UniPress Emacs was in 1988! HCIL Demo - HyperTIES Authoring with UniPress Emacs on NeWS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU >Demo of UniPress Emacs based HyperTIES authoring tool, by Don Hopkins, at the University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab. HyperTIES discussions from Hacker News: https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperties-discussions-from-hacker-news-937d156f0330 https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperties-discussions-from-hac... I later implemented pie menus and tabbed windows for the NeWS Toolkit (TNT) "Open Look" window manager in 1990 for Sun OpenWindows (X11/NeWS), that let you drag the tabs around to any edge of the window, and wrap all your windows in tabbed frames, even including X11 windows! NeWS Tab Window Demo (This video may not play in some regions due to copyrighted music): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMcmQk-q0k4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMcmQk-q0k4 >Demo of the Pie Menu Tab Window Manager for The NeWS Toolkit 2.0. Developed and demonstrated by Don Hopkins. Object oriented PostScript source code for NeWS TNT 2.0 pie menus and tabbed windows: https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/win/pie.ps https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/win/pie.ps https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/win/tab.ps https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/win/tab.ps Tabbed window (with pop-up pie menus on the tabs) are also great for representing PostScript object stuck onto a "stack": PSIBER Space Deck Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuC_DDgQmsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuC_DDgQmsM The Shape of PSIBER Space: PostScript Interactive Bug Eradication Routines — October 1989: https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-shape-of-psiber-space-october-1989-19e2dfa4d91e https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-shape-of-psiber-space-octo... Tabbed Windows - History: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(interface)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(interface)#History >Don Hopkins developed and released several versions of tabbed window frames for the NeWS window system as free software, which the window manager applied to all NeWS applications, and enabled users to drag the tabs around to any edge of the window.[5] >The NeWS version of UniPress's Gosling Emacs text editor was another early product with multiple tabbed windows in 1988.[6] It was used to develop an authoring tool for Ben Shneiderman's hypermedia browser HyperTIES (the NeWS workstation version of The Interactive Encyclopedia System), in 1988 at the University of Maryland Human-Computer Interaction Lab.[7][8] HyperTIES also supported pie menus for managing windows and browsing hypermedia documents with PostScript applets. HyperTIES browser and Gosling Emacs authoring tool with pie menus on the NeWS window system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(interface)#/media/File:HyperTIESAuthoring.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(interface)#/media/File:Hy... >HyperTIES is an early hypermedia browser developed under the direction of Dr. Ben Shneiderman at the University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab. This screen snapshot shows the HyperTIES authoring tool (built with UniPress's Gosling Emacs text editor, written in MockLisp) and browser (built with the NeWS window system, written in PostScript, C and Forth). The tabbed windows and pie menu reusable components were developed by Don Hopkins, who also developed the NeWS Emacs (NeMACS) and HyperTIES user interfaces. (Sorry about the quality -- this is a scan of an old screen dump printed by a laser printer.)
tortoise_in 3y ago
Why use brave when Firefox and Chrome exists?

288 points by czottmann 3y ago

It's strange to me how a key selling point of these vertical tabs is "save on vertical space", but they almost always still include a header bar. You can see in the video they posted that it saves almost no vertical space, while now taking up a massive amount of horizontal space.

kevincox 3y ago
That's a cool idea. Move the rest of the browser chrome into the left bar as well. Less of vertical tabs as an entire vertical chrome.
abdullahkhalids 3y ago
They certainly do save space on Firefox (with the right config). In the default setting, there is OS title bar, then a address+icon bar, then the tab bar. After installing sidebar tabs, you can remove the tab bar with some css, which saves about 5% of the vertical screen space.
- kitsunesoba 3y ago
  You can also remove that unnecessarily large sidebar header that Firefox insists on not letting users disable via normal means with userchrome mods. Some such setups can be seen at https://firefoxcss-store.github.io/ https://firefoxcss-store.github.io/.
- zamadatix 3y ago
  "tab bar in titlebar" has been the Firefox default for a number of years at this point. If Linux, your distro/packager of choice may have overridden that. The only true exception to this is tile based WMs (which don't have title bars) but in that case it's still above by default.
  - abdullahkhalids 3y ago
    You are correct. I have been using sidebar tabs for probably a decade now, so I had completely forgotten about the redesign.
amelius 3y ago
Perhaps we should just make monitors in 4:3 like we used to instead of 16:9 which is ridiculous since we typically don't watch movies in the office.
- tivert 3y ago
  > Perhaps we should just make monitors in 4:3 like we used to instead of 16:9 which is ridiculous since we don't typically watch movies in the office. That's on the right track, but going too far. 16:10 or 3:2 is much more reasonable. The idea of using 16:9 screens for work needs to die in a fire.
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
    IMO the closer the ratio gets to 1 the better but the only fact I have for this is 1280x1024 (5:4) being better than 1024x768 (4:3)
    - pezezin 3y ago
      Meanwhile here I am, using an ultrawide 21:9 monitor and loving it as I can easily split it in two or three columns whenever I need. I don't understand why people like squarish monitors so much, the human FOV is not square.
      - jorvi 3y ago
        Widescreen and especially ultrawide makes sense with bigger screens but is terrible on laptop-sizes screens, at least outside of media consumption.
      - Sakos 3y ago
        How is the human FOV relevant? I just want to be able to fit as much vertical content into the visible area as possible. Because almost all documents we use are vertically organized.
- square_usual 3y ago
tivert 3y ago
> It's strange to me how a key selling point of these vertical tabs is "save on vertical space", but they almost always still include a header bar. Honestly, that's not the main selling point of vertical tabs for me. Horizontal tabs don't scale for more than a dozen or so, but vertical tabs do. The "wasted" horizontal space is useless for reading most page, but displays enough data for practical navigation, and the vertical organization allows more-developed vertical scrolling technologies to be used with the tab list (e.g. scroll wheels).
- alpaca128 3y ago
  > the vertical organization allows more-developed vertical scrolling technologies to be used with the tab list (e.g. scroll wheels). Firefox also lets you scroll the tabs horizontally. Which I prefer to Brave's approach of simply not displaying the last tabs in the bar if it's too many, which means newly opened tabs simply never show up while the others are shrunk so far they become difficult to hit with the cursor.
  - eviks 3y ago
    But it's easier to scroll vertically, also because the scroll area is bigger
nicklevin 3y ago
Arc moves the header bar stuff (URL) to the left pane, so the entire right pane is site content.
- imbnwa 3y ago
  Arc is way ahead on browser UX. Opening links in Pinned Tabs into a modal over the Pinned Tab content is exactly how I want to use link aggregator sites
- st380752143 3y ago
  I hope Arc's vertical tab could support nesting/tree feature, which is really useful.
pfist 3y ago
You can hide the title bar while vertical tabs are enabled. I am using it on a laptop and it feels great.
6510 3y ago
I struggle finding good page <titles> with the amount of space browsers give you. You should at least be able to see which tab is what if you have 3 for a website.
chaxor 3y ago
The trick is to hide all extra stuff like address bar, tabs, settings, OS related bars, etc. and alonly show the browser stuff upon Ctrl+L. It's so much nicer, especially with an wm that's just gets out of the way - awesomewm
eviks 3y ago
Yes, they don't follow their own principles to the logical conclusion In Vivaldi it's much better - you can get rid of the header bar completely and only have the search/tool bar, styled to be narrower, saves real space And since horizontal space is cheap in most websites, the latter part is less of an issue (though you still don't need it to be massive)
princevegeta89 3y ago
Saving 40px of vertical space in lieu of losing 120px of horizontal space?
- dietr1ch 3y ago
  When was the last time that those 120px of horizontal space made a difference? I can use 2 windows side by side and the pane just eats horizontal padding on most sites because narrow columns are prettier and easier to read.

meghan_rain 3y ago

aka bookmarks

chrisco255 3y ago
who needs bookmarks when you can have 750 tabs open at once?
- 1MachineElf 3y ago
  The latter is more valuable to the ad tech industry. In fact, they benefit from browsers with crippled bookmarking systems. Every time a user types in "facebook" instead of facebook.com into the omnibar, that user is directed to a Google/Bing/Brave Search page with ads.
  - jollyllama 3y ago
    I can't live with Braves terrible bookmark manager, and inability to save history for more than a few months. But I can't live without the flawless ad blocking.
    - elforce002 3y ago
      Same. I can't live without ad blocking + ublock. I don't remember the last time I saw an ad and I'm happy for that.
    - olifante 3y ago
      Yet here you are, alive and commenting on HN.
      - jollyllama 3y ago
        For now. But were it not for my comment history, there'd be no trace of my reading this thread in X months.
  - chrisco255 3y ago

bandzest 3y ago

I was waiting for the 'Arc'-ening to happen.

hiidrew 3y ago
I just want the shift-ctrl-c to be in every browser. Probably my favorite feature from Arc.
- greenie_beans 3y ago
  ah! nice! thanks!
- quesera 3y ago
  Don't leave us hanging...
  - blairbeckwith 3y ago
    I believe they mean shift-cmd-c and it copies the current URL to the clipboard. Comparable to cmd-L + cmd-C in one keystroke.
    - quesera 3y ago
      Thanks! (Not a user of the browser in question) But Cmd+L+C is exactly the same number of sequential keypresses as Cmd+Shift+C. So I guess Firefox has this desirable behaviour covered!
      - mikelward 3y ago
        With the caveat that it changes where the cursor is.
        chenmike 3y ago
        Also it requires both hands

SxC97 3y ago

Looks like there’s no tree functionality. I’ll be sticking with Orion for the time being.

thunderbong 3y ago
Or Vivaldi, which even lets you rename the group of tabs!
- dvdgsng 3y ago
  When I need to collect multiple tabs for a specific topic/task I've found workspaces to be much more practical than tab groups.

stranded22 3y ago

I have just found that ‘disable JavaScript’ in Brave on iOS removes ‘Promoted Posts’ on Reddit on mobile. So, looks like I’ll move to that when Apollo shuts down. Works with Twitter too - I’m a noob smh. *looks like I’m wrong- now not loading. Oh well.

gnicholas 3y ago
Are the vertical tabs available on iOS also? I could see it being useful on iPad, but not iPhone.

DerekBickerton 3y ago

Never liked vertical tabs. Horses for courses, personal preference and all that. My muscle memory for normal/horizontal tab layouts is so ingrained in me, that using anything different would take on a huge unlearning.

dschuessler 3y ago
I want to like them because they save vertical space, and you can always read the page titles, regardless of how many tabs you have open. But as with you, my muscle memory gets in the way.
witchesindublin 3y ago
It becomes useful if you need to sort through dozens of tabs or use a touchscreen.

whatscooking 3y ago

I care more about having enough horizontal space to do split view than I care about having 10px of vertical space

joaopms 3y ago
For me it's opposite! Since I have a ultrawide 1080p monitor (2560x1080), I actually prefer to "waste" horizontal space :)

gnicholas 3y ago

I’ve been using this on Brave dev for several months. It’s great! I hope they enable nested tabs, which I loved having in TST on Firefox.

james_pm 3y ago

Everyone is copying Arc. Microsoft showed a similar design to what Arc has along with vertical tabs.

miohtama 3y ago
Tree Style Tabs were released for Firefox around 2007 https://piro.sakura.ne.jp/xul/_treestyletab.html.en#history https://piro.sakura.ne.jp/xul/_treestyletab.html.en#history I am not sure if someone like Opera was earlier, but Arc is likely copying this.
- Lammy 3y ago
  > I am not sure if someone like Opera was earlier OmniWeb 5.0, 2004: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2004/02/ow5/3/#tabs https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2004/02/ow5/3/#tabs
  - stonogo 3y ago
    Opera 4 had them in 2000. Opera 3 might have, but it won't run on Windows 10 so I can't easily check. edit: Started up a VM -- Opera 3 didnt have tabs at all, although it did already have an MDI.
    - fellowniusmonk 3y ago
      I used Opera over other browsers for a long time for performance reasons, it had M2, my favorite email client ever to this day, which got rid of traditional "folders", there's an alternate timeline somewhere where Opera won the browser wars and they already have flying cars and a federated web.
  - cosmotic 3y ago
    Windows common controls had side-aligned tabs around 1997
    - pgeorgi 3y ago

TradingPlaces 3y ago

Kagi’s Orion browser also has this. I like it.

zcmack 3y ago

close your damn tabs, heathens

CoBE10 3y ago

I've been using Firefox with Tab Center Reborn, and a config which collapses the tabs so only the favicons are visible. Using Shift-Tab, Ctrl-Shift-Tab and Ctrl-T, Ctrl-W to go around and open/close is so logical for me. First time I heard about Tree style tabs I was so against them because they occupied significant amount of space and I didn't know you could collapse them. I don't see myself ever going back horizontal tabs. Vertical is so much better, especially on smaller screen (like 1366x768), where horizontal space isn't needed that much as vertical is. My setup: https://i.imgur.com/sZ8zdol.png https://i.imgur.com/sZ8zdol.png

miohtama 3y ago
Tree Style Tabs work well, because screen estate is not wasted on 16:9 and 16:10 style displays. Web browsing is mostly reading task and because of usability, line length cannot exceed a certain width. Thus, there is more screen estate horizontally around the page than vertically on top and bottom of the page you are reading.
- smoe 3y ago
  I liked vertical tabs on my main monitor where there is plenty of space. But on the laptop, especially with using split screen i got too crowded. I have since made the tabs completely invisible and just navigate trough them with the Vimium extension. This has some quirks because of the limitations a browser extension has, but I now much prefer to just use keyboard shortcuts and search to jump to tabs.
- f33d5173 3y ago
  There is the issue of pages which are designed only for very wide screens and for mobile. In between screen sizes will cause the main content to be annoyingly skinny, if it isn't totally unreadable. These sites are relatively rare, thankfully.
fjcp 3y ago
@CoBE10 Tried this extension and found it better for me than Tree Style Tab. Your config is a custom CSS? Would you mind sharing it? Thanks!

game_the0ry 3y ago

I really liked brave and this is an interesting feature, but I had to stop using it when I tried syncing my bookmarks - for some reason, a bunch ended up duplicating, and I have a lot of bookmarks that are well organized. Otherwise, I would have kept using it - it was fast and energy efficient on my intel macbook, way better than chrome. I also have to say - I hate when I have so many tabs open. It's basically a manifestation of my ADHD. I need to focus one thing at a time.

NayamAmarshe 3y ago
They've improved the sync functionality a lot this year. It's much faster and reliable now.

elbrian 3y ago

I see the name “Brave Browser” and my brain just refuses to engage. Their marketing team ruined the product for me before I ever got the chance to try it.

gota 3y ago
What do you mean? Do you feel anxious about having to rent a tuxedo when someone mentions Opera? I jest, but I don't think I get what you are implying. What is the difference between this fantasy name and any other that is also an existing noun?
- lagniappe 3y ago
  > What do you mean? For once can we just skip the inevitable discussion that takes place in every single brave thread?
  - gota 3y ago
    I am sorry, I am truly not aware. I'll google it but appreciate a link if you have it at hand. Thanks and sorry - I didn't mean to start a thread that is not useful for most people
    - kyleee 3y ago
      A probably incomplete list of gripes: * cryptocurrency related bits, relation to BAT token * Fiasco where they collected earnings on behalf of creators without their consent/knowledge/optin * Run by Brendan Eich who some people don’t like because he created javascript, and/or is not supportive of gay people in some ways I am sure I am forgetting some
      - temptemptemp111 3y ago
        [dead]
EMM_386 3y ago

slily 3y ago

Why do people need dozens or hundreds of tabs to the point that they need groups for them? We've had bookmarks (and folders for them) for decades... It made way more sense when you could expect tabs to always be loaded, and not behave like another set of bookmarks.

kitsunesoba 3y ago
Bookmarks have management overhead and are too easily forgotten about. For a lot of people tabs serve as a sort of to-do list or with groups, repositories for sites that will briefly be useful for a certain task in the near future. They naturally get closed as they’re done with, eschewing any kind of cleanup step as is necessary with bookmarks.
- slily 3y ago
  That sounds like how I use tabs but doesn't explain how people end up with enough tabs open to make them impossible to navigate in a horizontal layout and without grouping them. When I'm done with a tab, I close it. If I'm going back to it later, I leave it and... go back to it later. If I don't, I close it... or I bookmark it. I don't see how you go from using tabs as a short-term "read later" feature to having several dozens of them open at any given time. And while deleting bookmarks takes a second to do, so does going through your tabs to get rid of the ones that haven't been useful in 2 months. Personally, if I run out of horizontal space I consider it a good reminder to clean up, but then I see people with so many tabs that all they see is a ton of icons, and I wonder if they even know that bookmarks exist. That image came to mind as I read some of the other comments under this post, and I feel like we're just reinventing bookmarks for people who don't realize that bookmarks exist (bookmarks have been deemphasized for a while through trends like hiding the bookmarks toolbar by default).
arp242 3y ago
Usually what happens is stuff like like: - I spend time researching X, have a few pages open for that, get bored with it, want to continue in a few days. - I work on X, which has a few related tabs open, and I need to switch to Y for a bit. - There's a long-term thing I'm working on and off. - Something I found and want to look at later; "bookmarks-light" (bookmarks might as well be /dev/null for me).

svet_0 3y ago

Brave gives a very bad vibe (mostly due to the affiliate links scandal), I prefer to just use my favorite browsers (ff/edge) + uBlock Origin and Privacy Badger which give good privacy/adblock experience, are open source and customizable to my liking.

justsee 3y ago
A minor autocomplete mistake from 2 years ago (quickly fixed and apologised for by the CEO [1]) is framed as a 'scandal'. Meanwhile Mozilla is showing signs of serious, systemic internal org issues, and no problem? [2] It's pretty clear a user / privacy-first model is central to Brave's mission, so these drive-by comments griping loudly about minor, historical issues never feel intellectually compelling. [1] https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269317625915400192 https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269317625915400192 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36077360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36077360
mcint 3y ago
Brave's encroachments can be turned off. On a new install, I disable the search bar Rewards icon, extensions area Wallet, and new tab page Sponsored Images, News, and Cards. (And maybe others still). Each of these requires active engagement from a user to produce and signal for a 3rd party. Meanwhile, they also fund novel privacy and security research [1], including preventing advanced fingerprinting. In essence, the maintain a patch set on top of Chromium (the open source base of Chrome, that Edge also builds on) which more convincingly respects user privacy, security, and choice[2][3][4]. See how much effort they put into keeping Brave Ads convincingly private [5]. Each of these is less intrusive than changes (to stay recent and relevant) include direct partnership for promotions [6]. Or to base beliefs on a series of news reports that sound bad, see a longer list [7], though it's quite noisy list. [1]: https://brave.com/research/ https://brave.com/research/ [2]: https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/14942 https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/14942 [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federated_Learning_of_Cohorts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federated_Learning_of_Cohorts [4]: https://brave.com/why-brave-disables-floc/ https://brave.com/why-brave-disables-floc/ [5]: https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/360026361072-Brave-Ads-FAQ https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/360026361072-Bra... [6]: https://itsfoss.com/firefox-looking-glass-controversy/ https://itsfoss.com/firefox-looking-glass-controversy/ [7]: https://chefkochblog.wordpress.com/2022/03/03/mozilla-history-of-scandals/ https://chefkochblog.wordpress.com/2022/03/03/mozilla-histor...

elforce002 3y ago

Ngl, I'm digging this feature.

zamadatix 3y ago

Anyone remember the "Compact Navigation" test Chrome did ~a decade ago? https://pureinfotech.com/how-to-enable-compact-navigation-feature-in-google-chrome/ https://pureinfotech.com/how-to-enable-compact-navigation-fe... It had a major downside of putting browser chrome over the page area and hiding the URL. Over time the latter has become the default anyways but the former is still iffy. Safari approached this concept more recently, as the only browser I'm aware with this as an officially supported option, but put the URL bar directly in the tab, which is a bit more awkward to use. On Vivaldi there is the option to hide it but then activate it via a keyboard shortcut/gesture, which functions similarly but can cause extra switching between keyboard based navigation and mouse based navigation (the latter of which can be very hard to avoid). Because of the way Vivaldi is implemented it's always performed a lot worse than other Chromium based browsers for me as well. In Firefox there were several CSS hacks for this but it was constantly falling apart on updates so I gave up on it. I guess the long story short is: as a very light tab user (1-8 throughout the day) I miss this old option in Chrom* greatly.

adr1an 3y ago

Sidebery firefox addon, among others, saves you of making richer CEOs that are against human rights (search for brendan eich homophobia).

scelerat 3y ago

OmniWeb (from Omnigroup, developers of OmniGraffle, OmniPlan, OmniOutliner et al) was their web browser offering in a particularly fecund period of browser development in the early 2000s, which had vertical tabs. The tabs themselves were little thumbnails of the contents of the web page in question. I used OmniWeb as my main browser for many years, right up until Firebug and Firefox became the preferred development environment. Great browser, a lot of great UI ideas out of that shop.

Cyberdog 3y ago
OmniWeb was great! I think Opera still did it first, though. I moved on to Safari after it died, but I missed vertical tabs dearly and still do. Hopefully this idea catches on well enough for the Safari team to finally steal it.
- nomel 3y ago
  Yes, I remember Opera having it around that same time, and Firefox having a plugin to copy it. I think the Firefox plugin had full "tab tree" support though. I believe it died after one of the many updates that changed how plugins worked, although I haven't checked in a couple of decades to see if something similar has appeared.
  - niutech 3y ago
    You can still have tab tree in Firefox using Tree Style Tab (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-tab/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-ta...)
- sundarurfriend 3y ago
  Opera was the Xerox PARC of web browsers in a lot of ways.
  - arp242 3y ago
    Except that you could actually use it instead of being a legendary project we only heard about but very few people actually used. That makes it all the more painful that it was taken away.

ameminator 3y ago

I've had vertical tabs in Vivaldi for a little while now. I hope you guys enjoy it over on Brave as well, they change how you use tabs. Strongly recommended.

voidon 3y ago
Vivaldi is great, but I've hidden the tab bar, and use the window panel instead. Then you get a nice tree view of tabs (nested, grouped by domain etc) and windows. Kind of treating my tabs as bookmarks, which is probably why it consumes a lot of memory :-) I guess the last part is fixed in later chromium by hibernating tabs now?

ojkelly 3y ago

The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that I want a browser that functions like an IDE. Multiple panes with tabs, that can be resized either to custom sizes or automatically (binary space partitioning). It’s too much for a general purpose browser, which is how we’ve got the Chrome, Safari, Firefox we have. But I think the appeal of a more information-dense browser is broader than we think, anyone doing research would benefit from it.

sphars 3y ago
Vivaldi can do tab tiling. Not nearly as customizable as an IDE as you describe, but you can vertically or horizontally tile multiple tabs on the same "page". Only browser I know that has that close of functionality https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/tabs/tab-tiling/ https://help.vivaldi.com/desktop/tabs/tab-tiling/
- nsonha 3y ago
  Arc Browser does it but currently closed beta, I have spare invitations if you need.
  - hxii 3y ago
    I wanted to try it since I couldn't understand what the fuss was about, then I saw it's still in closed beta. What are your impressions of it?
    - mthoms 3y ago
      I'm not the person you asked but I love it. It's actually solved my tab hoarding problem and made my life so much simpler. Caveat: I'm an ADHD sufferer so my experience may not be typical.
      - hxii 3y ago
        I actually have ADHD(I) as well, and have been trying to battle tab/bookmark hoarding myself. It seems Vivaldi is working well, but I was wondering what Arc has to offer.

omneity 3y ago

The crypto wallet video ad in the middle of the article is intrusive and frankly infuriating, especially when there is no video illustrating the lifecycle of the new vertical tabs.

lern_too_spel 3y ago
That's Brave for you. The founder is a crypto nut, and the browser is adware (shows ads itself instead of merely rendering ads on third party websites).
- donw 3y ago
  Brave is my daily driver. Haven't seen an ad in... years. For crypto or otherwise.
- NayamAmarshe 3y ago
  > and the browser is adware Been using the browser for 2 years and yet to see an ad.
  - orbital-decay 3y ago
    Because you opted out. The browser is ad-supported though, their whole business model is supposedly built on the users opting in to view strictly controlled ads for cryptocurrency rewards, at the same time stripping the existing ads from the sites, forcing the websites to use Brave Software as the middleman if they want a share of their ad revenue.
    - NayamAmarshe 3y ago
      Brave Rewards are disabled by default, along with the wallet, VPN and other things. Most features in Brave are opt-in, not opt-out. I don't know why people think otherwise. This is not Chrome or Edge.
      - orbital-decay 3y ago

ChubbyGlasses 3y ago

More and more I've wanted a browser based on WebKit/Blink from a company with the original Mozilla's values. I know this will get a lot of flack, but Gecko feels way too antiquated for what I want out of a modern browser. Not to mention, browsers are significantly complicated that splitting developer efforts just doesn't seem like a good idea; Firefox keeps falling further behind in term of modern features.

drunkan 3y ago

The Orion browser has had this for a while and has the best native implementation by far I just hope they don’t remain pigeonholed into apple OS as they currently are

bradgessler 3y ago

The more enhancements I see browser vendors making to tabs, the more I think they’re reinventing bookmarks/favorites. Safari introduced “tab groups” a while back, which to me is an insane mess of complexity. When I think about it though they’re just folders and each tab is a bookmark/favorite. The vertical tabs in Brave remind me of bookmarks/favorites too.

prng2021 3y ago
I don’t follow. Tabs are nothing like favorites. You go to a favorite and open links within it in new tabs. Eventually the tabs will be closed and you’ll often never visit those links ever again, as opposed to a favorite. As for tab groups, I could never get used to them, but I do use vertical tabs and find them quite useful.
viktree 3y ago
This is one feature I like in the Arc Browser. Persistent tabs are bookmarks, and bookmarks are just as accessible as regular tabs.
- Ancapistani 3y ago
  Not exactly. Arc has "pinned tabs", but not "bookmarks". While they can be used similarly, I find it quite annoying to use the search to pull something out of my "bookmarks", only to have it open a directory hierarchy eight levels deep when I switch to it. Likewise, if I navigate away from the page on the pinned tab, I lose my "bookmark".
Tagbert 3y ago
For me, tab groups are nothing like bookmarks. Tab groups are a way of managing already open tabs in related group; showing and hiding groups as you need them. I use a similar tool in Firefox and I always have tabs related to about 4-5 projects open at once. I use the tab group tool to switch between the tabs by project so I only need to deal with 10-15 tabs at once. These are tabs that I don’t want to close as they have context and sometimes ongoing edits. It’s a bit like having multiple windows each with tabs but this keeps it together in one window and makes it easier to manager. Without this, I would be facing 50-75 tabs and trying to figure out which ones were related to the project I needed to work on at the current time.

iJohnDoe 3y ago

Queue the incoming Mozilla and Google employees to start spewing, “Brave has Crypto!”. Brave has been the best innovation in browsers in recent years. A pleasure to use. Kudos to them and their users for putting up with all the hate.

hedora 3y ago

A while back, I switched to just using private mode all the time, and haven’t looked back. The main problem I have now is that I have trouble finding old stuff because internet search keeps getting worse. Bookmarks aren’t really a solution because they are not searchable, and I’m bad at predicting what I will want to re-read in 5-10 years.

a5aAqU 3y ago
In Firefox, the bookmarks are in a sqlite database that you could probably query with an extension or other tool. https://stackoverflow.com/a/740183 https://stackoverflow.com/a/740183

joduplessis 3y ago

Nice. For some reason, vertical tabs just have never taken for me.

dietr1ch 3y ago
Do you actually like the favicon sized tabs? Or do you have self-control and only open a reasonable amount of tabs?
- joduplessis 3y ago
  Lol! I have the decency to open multiple browser windows (large monitor). But, ja - unfortunately I tend to send stuff to the bookmark-graveyard quite quickly.

smrtinsert 3y ago

Vertical everything. It makes everything so easy to read and scan. I encourage vertical definitions for jr devs, especially ones tempted to put a 20 conditional if statement horizontally (no I don't want to talk about it).

eviks 3y ago

Been using that in Vivaldi and it's great, glad to see i this UI feature moving elsewhere

kusuriya 3y ago

Im conflicted, I like the general idea behind brave, their vertical tabs look good, but the browser deeply integrates this crypto grift and robs sites I visit and have their ads allowed of their revenue then wants them to "opt-in" to their grift to get the money they stole.

aero-glide2 3y ago
You can literally disable it in the welcome screen when you first install.
NayamAmarshe 3y ago
They're disabled by default. It's better to try it out than to read opinions on the internet about the browser and form a viewpoint, I say this because I too have been guilty of the same.
- vegetable 3y ago
  IIRC, the background processes for these ad and crypto services still run in the background even when you disable them. I haven't checked the browser in a long while. But it's easily verifiable by opening the brave task manager. Quick Google result: https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/5429 https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/5429
  - NayamAmarshe 3y ago
    No that's not the case. I just checked. The GitHub issues that you linked also are closed. I followed the duplicates and they're all closed with comments mentioning that it's been fixed.
    - vegetable 3y ago
      I checked to. On my computer, with a fresh install, i have to kill Utility: Bat Ledger Service from the brave task manager every time the browser is started. Thankfully it stays closed. The ads and crypto stuff are also not exactly as simple to opt out as "literally disable it in the welcome screen when you first install" as one commenter enthusiastically mentioned.

iansinnott 3y ago

Now if only you could hide the tab-favicon sidebar... Arc does this, but they don't give you the URL bar. It may sound nitpicky (and it is) but I really want the hidden tab sidebar AND a visible URL bar. Here's hoping either Arc or Brave will make this an option.

bestest 3y ago
I'm on Arc. If you're ok with the url bar being visible where you want it to be visible — you can trigger it per-domain (tab?) then this is how it looks like when you enable Developer Mode for a "site": https://shottr.cc/s/H7dA/SCR-20230602-dhd.png https://shottr.cc/s/H7dA/SCR-20230602-dhd.png
- iansinnott 3y ago
  Thanks for this. I had seen that once on localhost and wondered how to get that URL bar for all URLs. I didn't know you could use it per-domain, which may be good enough. Cheers.
justdep 3y ago
I really want this option too. The dev mode hack works but it's not very pretty in the least.

wly_cdgr 3y ago

Why would they do something so controversial yet so brave?

nine_k 3y ago

Maybe eventually mainstream browsers will get to the level of functionality of Firefox + Tree Style Tabs. (Sadly, I can't call Firefox all that mainstream today.)

hardwaresofton 3y ago

If you think this is awesome you should check out a browser a friend of mine is building called Horse (yes, called “horse”) https://browser.horse/ https://browser.horse/ The reason I like it is that he’s unified tabs and bookmarks almost, it’s a great UX that looks like some things you might have seen but still feels different. He’s also got wicked design sense — but I’m biased so. I also feel like I’m doing him a disservice — he’s got one of those silly lifetime deals going right now.

anigbrowl 3y ago
I'm curious but somewhat discouraged by the lack of a single screenshot. I don't want to install a minimalist browser that won't have extension capability and a lot of other features just to see if I like one thing that it does.
- hardwaresofton 3y ago
  I'm so sorry, this is actually great advice for my friend, I'm sending it to him right now, here's a screenshot: https://twitter.com/PascalPixel/status/1585224743480721408 https://twitter.com/PascalPixel/status/1585224743480721408 I've passed it on, hopefully he'll have the website updated with a screenshot in like... 10 mins
  - anigbrowl 3y ago
    This does look spiffy despite the other limitations. I fully agree that treed history makes far more sense than a flat list and wonder why this has been such a blind spot for other developers. I'll give it a whirl.
hellcow 3y ago
> Application error: a client-side exception has occurred (see the browser console for more information).
- hardwaresofton 3y ago

itsbits 3y ago

Have been using same via Chromium Edge browser. I also like workspaces feature. It's very handy to give some context to the group of tabs.

bestest 3y ago

Arc has been using this approach from the beginning — https://arc.net/gift/a192125e https://arc.net/gift/a192125e (here's an invite for whoever would like to try it out). The more I think about it — the more Arc reminds me of an IDE. A browser IDE of a kind.

Pxtl 3y ago

I tend to dock my windows taskbar left for the same reasons and I'm not upgrading to 11 until they let me keep that.

khwhahn 3y ago

More browsers need to make "tab categories" available. It really helps to organize your tab clutter by topic.

morsch 3y ago

Vertical tabs without nesting (trees) is such a wasted opportunity. Nesting lets you close/minimise/etc a group of a related tabs, eg. all the search results you opened from a single query. I hope Brave's implementation at least lets you switch tabs using the mouse wheel, which is probably my favorite feature of the Firefox vertical tabs addons. BTW, I was a TST user for many years, and recently switched to Sidebery, which seems to do the same and more, but is a bit more polished.

nathan_phoenix 3y ago
Can also recommend Sideberry. Amazing addon!
gnicholas 3y ago
Brave currently offers groups, which can be minimized to achieve some of the effect you mention. But like you, I'm hoping they bring true nesting in the future!
gautier_ 3y ago
The only thing those Firefox extension lack is the ability to hide native tabs (I understand that this is a limitation of Firefox extension APIs). You have to manually modify your userChrome.css to do so.
- zanellato19 3y ago
  You mean hiding the top bar, right?
  - ktm5j 3y ago
    Yes, that's what they're talking about. It ends up wasting space to have your vertical tab sidebar without the ability to hide the default tab bar at the top of the window.
- yomlica8 3y ago
  I swear they said they were going to add hiding the top tab bar back in as a native option back in 2017, but I'm still using the userChrome.css hack today.

scns 3y ago

Love it. Vimiums keys for switching tabs are reversed though. K goes down and J up. Still easier to remember than which one goes left/right.

usrbinbash 3y ago

This basically adresses my biggest gripe with tabs in an elegant way: The primary input mechanism for dealing with a large amount of "list entries" in any GUI software, nowadays is scrolling. While scrolling can be implemented in horizontal tabs, browsers prevented it from being used efficiently. Tabs all have to fit on that bar, and if they don't, for some reason you couldn't scroll but had to click little buttons, or if you could scoll, it wouldve been a bad UX, since tabs horizontal scrolling goes too fast for the user, or takes too long. Vertical tabs. Nice. From now on, any browser not offering this feature, shouldn't even bother applying. Nicely done Brave!

rejectfinite 3y ago
>Vertical tabs. Nice. From now on, any browser not offering this feature, shouldn't even bother applying. Nicely done Brave! Been a thing for years in old Opera first Firefox has extensions for it Edge and Vivaldi has it native
Sakos 3y ago
I would more describe it the following way. Vertical tabs solve a core issue in horizontal tabs. Tabs are inherently 2D: the number of tabs vs the length of their titles. Horizontal tabs can scale only to one dimension. You can choose to either see many of your tabs at once, but not be able to read any of the titles, or be able to read the titles but have to scroll absurd distances just to view what tabs are open. Vertical tabs give you a 2-dimensional view of your tabs. You can see many of your tabs and be able to read as much of the titles you want by scaling the horizontal size of the area independently. I think it's brilliant. I also don't see how browsers could "fix" horizontal tabs without resorting to taking away valuable vertical space from the content that is the primary purpose of browsers.
DonHopkins 3y ago
Window frames should allow any tab on any edge, because it's a useful method of organizing the tabs! You should be able to easily drag any tab to the top, bottom, left, or right edge of the window, and pop up pie menus on the tab to perform window management (and custom) commands on the tab or all tabs on the same edge, including covered-up windows. For example: Lots of "todo" tabs on the left, "done" tabs on the right, a few "in progress" tabs along the top, "problem" tabs along the bottom, so you can drag tabs between "todo" to "in progress", "problem", or "done", or select "close all left tabs" from a pie menu to clear out the "done" tasks, to easily manage your tasks with tabs. You could even partition edges into different groups of tabs, if you wanted. And manage multiple tiled windows inside the frame. A pie menu on the tab will let you open it up to full frame, split to bottom, split to top (with the obvious directions). Any sub-dialogs a window opens up could have their tabs laid out in a stack along a certain edge from a certain corner. You could designate edges (or sections of adjacent edges corresponding to tiled windows) to show the tabs of sub-windows of the selected window (to implement tree browsers). The app or document in the frame should be able to export custom commands that appear on the tab pie menu, so you can do stuff with the window without bringing it to the top or disturbing the currently displayed windows. The point is that the user should be able to decide what tabs to put where for what reason, not that one edge is the right edge and all other edges or wrong, or using more than one edge at a time is wrong.

noobdev9000 3y ago

Tabs are entirely useless and wrong abstraction. Look at VSCode, you just use Command Palette to search for anything. That's good

fragmede 3y ago
Even Chrome has a down arrow top right of each window. Click that and type in the tab you want to find.
dagurp 3y ago
You can do this in Vivaldi. Just hide the tab bar and use F2 to search for tab.

hsjqllzlfkf 3y ago

Firefox has tree style tabs, and no crypto. Win win

readerbaza 3y ago
Reason I dropped chrome around 2011/2012, they removed the options to have tabs laid vertically as not enough users used it (it was an hidden option and badly implemented). Tree style tabs is the main reason I've used firefox since. Tabs are really a bad design, maybe made some sense with 4:3 monitors but text was horizontal back then too.

deafpolygon 3y ago

It looks nearly identical to Edge's vertical tab.

DanielHB 3y ago

no tab preview like old opera? That was like my favourite feature

mmphosis 3y ago

No tabs is my preference https://iili.io/Hrtppup.png https://iili.io/Hrtppup.png

aka-ani 3y ago

What I've learned trying to analyse my preference for vertical tabs is that it's not so much about saving horizontal space vs vertical space. It's more just about showing more information on screen before needing to scroll. With regular horizontal tabs you either squeeze all tabs to fit the window width, in which case you stop being able to read page titles at some point. Or you have a horizontal scroll on the tab bar which also means you can only read so many titles on screen (probably fewer) before needing to scroll. The vertical tabs switch this up by being able to show a larger number of tab titles before you have to scroll down. Of course this depends on the width of your vertical tab sidebar but having word wrap or configurable height on horizontal tab bars isn't ever presented as an option so can't compare. Another clue to understanding my preference was when I realised I actually really like being able to have multiple rows of horizontal tabs vs a horizontally scrolling tab bar. So I think it just came down to the density of information visually available before having to do any scrolling. I do think it all just comes down to personal preferences and muscle memory and individual use cases (for example, some people like having 50+ tabs open, others don't). So I am very hesitant to call one approach better. I just don't understand why we can't have both options more available everywhere.

DonHopkins 3y ago

Now all it needs is pie menus (like in Blender, The Sims, etc) that you can pop up by clicking on the tabs, and it will be as fun, efficient, and easy to use as UniPress Emacs was in 1988! HCIL Demo - HyperTIES Authoring with UniPress Emacs on NeWS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhmU2B79EDU >Demo of UniPress Emacs based HyperTIES authoring tool, by Don Hopkins, at the University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab. HyperTIES discussions from Hacker News: https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperties-discussions-from-hacker-news-937d156f0330 https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperties-discussions-from-hac... I later implemented pie menus and tabbed windows for the NeWS Toolkit (TNT) "Open Look" window manager in 1990 for Sun OpenWindows (X11/NeWS), that let you drag the tabs around to any edge of the window, and wrap all your windows in tabbed frames, even including X11 windows! NeWS Tab Window Demo (This video may not play in some regions due to copyrighted music): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMcmQk-q0k4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMcmQk-q0k4 >Demo of the Pie Menu Tab Window Manager for The NeWS Toolkit 2.0. Developed and demonstrated by Don Hopkins. Object oriented PostScript source code for NeWS TNT 2.0 pie menus and tabbed windows: https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/win/pie.ps https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/win/pie.ps https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/win/tab.ps https://donhopkins.com/home/archive/NeWS/win/tab.ps Tabbed window (with pop-up pie menus on the tabs) are also great for representing PostScript object stuck onto a "stack": PSIBER Space Deck Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuC_DDgQmsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuC_DDgQmsM The Shape of PSIBER Space: PostScript Interactive Bug Eradication Routines — October 1989: https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-shape-of-psiber-space-october-1989-19e2dfa4d91e https://donhopkins.medium.com/the-shape-of-psiber-space-octo... Tabbed Windows - History: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(interface)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(interface)#History >Don Hopkins developed and released several versions of tabbed window frames for the NeWS window system as free software, which the window manager applied to all NeWS applications, and enabled users to drag the tabs around to any edge of the window.[5] >The NeWS version of UniPress's Gosling Emacs text editor was another early product with multiple tabbed windows in 1988.[6] It was used to develop an authoring tool for Ben Shneiderman's hypermedia browser HyperTIES (the NeWS workstation version of The Interactive Encyclopedia System), in 1988 at the University of Maryland Human-Computer Interaction Lab.[7][8] HyperTIES also supported pie menus for managing windows and browsing hypermedia documents with PostScript applets. HyperTIES browser and Gosling Emacs authoring tool with pie menus on the NeWS window system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(interface)#/media/File:HyperTIESAuthoring.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tab_(interface)#/media/File:Hy... >HyperTIES is an early hypermedia browser developed under the direction of Dr. Ben Shneiderman at the University of Maryland Human Computer Interaction Lab. This screen snapshot shows the HyperTIES authoring tool (built with UniPress's Gosling Emacs text editor, written in MockLisp) and browser (built with the NeWS window system, written in PostScript, C and Forth). The tabbed windows and pie menu reusable components were developed by Don Hopkins, who also developed the NeWS Emacs (NeMACS) and HyperTIES user interfaces. (Sorry about the quality -- this is a scan of an old screen dump printed by a laser printer.)

tortoise_in 3y ago

Why use brave when Firefox and Chrome exists?