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Blizzard developers say return-to-office policy 'cost us some amazing people'

284 points by ahiknsr 3y ago

ungawatkt 3y ago
Just read the Kotaku article it links to, PC gamer isn't adding anything that I see. https://kotaku.com/blizzard-diablo-iv-world-warcraft-remote-work-delays-1850421033 https://kotaku.com/blizzard-diablo-iv-world-warcraft-remote-...
gumballindie 3y ago
Any manager asking for return to office should be sacked. Usually thats a sign of incompetence.
- lisasays 3y ago
  No, they should be educated. Heaven forbid you or I should be fired for the occasional mistake, or lopsided opinion.
  - dymk 3y ago
    Executives aren’t making these decisions, from the very top, uneducated about what they’re doing
  - ilyt 3y ago
    They should start with educating them how to manage remote/hybrid environment, because that's the most likely reason for their opinion. I've worked in all ranges from fully on-site to fully remote and it's all in organization and workflow and I can absolutely see some manager seeing drop in productivity when trying to pretend no changes are needed to be made for remote work.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    This is one of those types of “mistakes” that cost people’s mental health, family life, damage the environment and cost their employer talent.
    - lisasays 3y ago
      As does forced WFH for some people (minus the climate aspects). Or unskillfully conducted WFH (even when everyone agrees in principle). I think it's pretty clear that this is a topic that people have organic, gut-level differences of opinion on -- and not without a very substantial basis (thinking here of the experience of people who hate WFH and find it to be as damaging to their mental health as others find it to be liberating). I'm still in the camp that holds that on balance there are more benefits to WFH, and fewer downsides - provided everyone is on board. But what's needed to bridge the divide is more empathy for the other side - not a bullet to the head of everyone who disagrees with us.
      - gumballindie 3y ago
        I agree with you but it’s usually the onsite crowd that wants _everyone_ else onsite. I am all for mixed setups with some onsite some offsite but i strongly disagree with the anti freedom side (those who want everyone on site).
_cenw 3y ago
As usual, extrovert/control freak manager egos triumph over supposedly ideal market forces.
draw_down 3y ago
> DE&I also means diversity of thought, especially when it's backed by data and financials. No it doesn’t. Don’t get me wrong, that would be nice and all, but that isn’t the point of DEI.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Where is this quote from? I don't see it in the article, or in other comments here.
  - draw_down 3y ago
    [dead]
SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
It's funny to see this considering that, for WoW at least, it seems that pandemic and WFH helped them create the best expansion since 2016. The last two expansions had worse design and systems than their latest. I personally think the only reason WoW hasn't caught on again is that BfA / Shadowlands killed enthusiasm for the game.
- blibble 3y ago
  > I personally think the only reason WoW hasn't caught on again is that BfA / Shadowlands killed enthusiasm for the game. as a former WoW player (since beta!) we're all wise to the situation that if Blizzard gets its userbase back it will return to its previous abusive ways its reputation is unsalvageable
  - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
    I too have played since beta. But yeah, I'm wary of that and ready to head for the door if that happens, but I just resubbed a bit to enjoy 10.1. I'll play for a month and then disappear until new content drops again. It's not going to my forever game anymore, but when it's good it'll get a month or two out of me.
  - jandrese 3y ago
    I personally think Blizzard's fate was sealed when they were bought by Activision. Big corporate overlords can never keep their mitts off of successful subsidiaries for too long.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- foobarian 3y ago
  Come to think of it Diablo 4 too is shaping up to be the best Diablo since D2 days.
  - adra 3y ago
    There was only one game in between. The number of viable titles in this genre are looking almost as bad as RTS which has also taken a big tumblr on popularity over the years. The question will stand if D4 will be able to engage the hardcores more than POE and still be able to attract normals enough to stick around and spend the big money. Time will tell.
pierat 3y ago
> It's worth noting that the mandatory office attendance doesn't apply to ABK's executives. Recently hired execs like Chief Administrative Officer Brian Bulatao, and Chief Communications Officer Lulu Cheng Meservey, have full-time remote status. Basically, if we want these rights of remote work, we're going to have to unionize and fight for them. The elites already have this right. The lines are being drawn. Fight or acquiesce.
- vasco 3y ago
  Or you know, you can quit and go to a full-remote company. Good companies need good people so this would fix itself. If most of my colleagues and the owners of the company I work for decide they prefer to work in an office, why would I enforce my will upon them, instead of finding people that agree with me? I quit my last job to work fully remote and my boss knows I'd quit the day we'd remove that.
  - ausbah 3y ago
    >If most of my colleagues and the owners of the company I work for decide they prefer to work in an office, why would I enforce my will upon them but this isn't the case, it's management making BS decisions no one really likes. the market is in favor of capital & management in the current market climate so collective action is the only way to push back imo
    - thih9 3y ago
      What do you mean by BS? Is it really BS? Perhaps it’s genuinely easier for the management to keep people in the office?
      - krainboltgreene 3y ago
        Show me your deed to the factory or board of directors signature.
        3y ago
ghusto 3y ago
They hinted that this was a way to downsize, and it doesn't seem implausible. There's no severance pay if you quit.
- ncallaway 3y ago
  The problem is taking away benefits as a way to downside ensures that the people _most able_ to secure those benefits from other companies will leave. If your goal is to ensure that you're getting rid of your top talent, it's a fine strategy.
  - ikiris 3y ago
    They're the ones that usually cost money so it can often be the target audience.
    - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
      Companies hire and promote the best because the value they deliver massively outstrips their cost. If that wasn't the case, they'd already be pip'd out. Using RTO to increase attrition is an absolutely brain dead strategy.
  - ilyt 3y ago
    But it's super effective, the people that cost you the most leave without severance!
  - tomtheelder 3y ago
    > taking away benefits It’s not that simple. For folks who prefer remote, remote is a benefit. For folks who prefer an in office work style, remote being an option is an “anti” benefit since it totally kills the value of in person work. You’re going to lose top talent either way. The last org I worked at went remote and lost a bunch of high performers to places that were in office. I ended up leaving for unrelated reasons. It seems like things ended up totally stabilizing and now they are in a happy state of remote culture, but it absolutely cost them along the way.
neovialogistics 3y ago
Long term staff retention really seems to pay off in the entertainment industry. Nintendo, Valve, FX, NBC, off the top of my head. Not sure how viable it is for smaller companies.
- foota 3y ago
  Small indie companies can't be expected to retain employees :-)
  - lisasays 3y ago
    That's the stereotype. Fortunately counterexamples abound, and they are some of the best companies to work for.
    - antonyt 3y ago
      It's a joke about Blizzard. "Small indie company" is a meme players use to sarcastically justify why content is delayed, fixes aren't delivered, etc.
      - lisasays 3y ago
        I am now enlightened. Thank you.
consumer451 3y ago
It now seems a bit obvious that this type of policy will lead to the best performers flying the coup, as they are the ones most likely to be in a position to dictate the terms of their employment.
- tomtheelder 3y ago
  The last org I worked at went remote during the pandemic, and lost a big chunk of top performers because of it. They went to companies with the sort of vibrant office that my org had prior to the pandemic. It’s a lose-lose. And hybrid isn’t a solution at all; it’s a bad outcome for both sides. Over time things are just going to settle into remote orgs and in person orgs, and all that’s happening now is that companies are deciding which side of the fence to come down on. Either choice hurts in the short term.
  - Suppafly 3y ago
    You've repeated a few times that the top performers left because of WFH, but I don't believe you. Unless you're in some weird industry where top performers love vibrant offices (which don't really exist) this seems made up.
    - MrScruff 3y ago
      Not the person you’re replying to but I work in an industry not to dissimilar to games and many of the top performers love in-person collaboration. They come into the office every day even though they’re not obliged to.
    - tomtheelder 3y ago
      I mentioned my situation twice, because it was relevant to both comments. I worked at a tech company. We had an internal poll when decision making was made around this, and the breakdown was about 30% prefer full time in office, 40% wanted hybrid, and another 30% wanted full time remote. The high performers who left were mostly in sales and marketing, for what it's worth. Engineering suffered almost no attrition, but IMO (and I say this as an engineer) SWEs are much more fungible than sales people even if they are more expensive. I think the discourse on forums like this one and Reddit, dominated by highly-online folks (especially engineers), has given folks a skewed perspective on the general population's preferences regarding office work. Most folks in my personal network do not work in tech. Among them the solid majority prefer a hybrid setup, with only a small portion preferring full-time remote or full-time in-office. But that leads to a very strong majority preferring that their organization have an active and vibrant office.
ilyt 3y ago
At this point MS/Actiblizzard falling thru would be a blessing in disguise for MS
andrewdubinsky 3y ago
RTO has simply become a structural disadvantage. Companies that cannot manage remote teams simply won't be able to attract top talent. Even if 80% of companies RTO the remaining 20% that recruit remote-only jobs will create massive disruption in top performers. HR has their head in the sand because so many companies are either freezing hiring or reducing headcount, but there's a real issue here. Talented people just don't need to consider onsite work, period. The only way you work onsite is you are inexperienced or you don't have another job. Maybe you want a big name on your resume. Either way those are jobs that will need to be filled again. In this article, they state openly that Blizzard is managing a crisis to ship multiple products. The cost of a failed product release outstrips their lease cost by orders of magnitude. I don't get the play here. What's the outlook on the next release cycle without talent?
- xiphias2 3y ago
  Case-by-case (what Google / OpenAI does) where top talent is identified and allowed WFH may outcompete both full-remote and both no-wfh companies (no-wfh is over at this point). It's a nice dream to have everyone wfh, but most people may not have that leverage / experience.
  - dymk 3y ago
    That’s what a union is for
    - collegeburner 3y ago
      why would top talent risk their jobs and get less for the sake of supporting underperformers? thats how unions work in this case. they make a lot more sense where there's stuff like blatant safety issues in factory settings than when e1s are Mad Online that they have to go into office and it's Literally 1984
      - dymk 3y ago
        Why do doctors and writers have unions? None of them are in a meat packing floor. Everybody thinks they’re special until they’re not. Tons of top talent at Amazon and Facebook were recently laid off. You’re not safe just because you’re smart.
kayson 3y ago
What is their policy? Full time in-office?
gautamdivgi 3y ago
Is RTO being driven by the government? There suddenly seems to be huge push this year and not much in 2022. Allegedly commercial real estate is something that many banks have exposure to and will not be solved unless RTO is implemented. This is just my hypothesis and obviously correlation isn't causation.
- hemloc_io 3y ago
  I don't think it's totally driven by the govt, but it's driven by the companies that want to preserve certain benefits and influence in the govt. Their interests just happen to be against, literally everyone else in terms of a full reversion.
- mym1990 3y ago
  There is certainly worry that as lease contracts expire, the combination of higher interest rates and vacant offices will create huge losses for real estate developers, and these can cause a cascading domino effect of further losses. How the communication flows from the government or RE developers to executives is beyond my understanding, but it looks like there is not much willingness to rethink how corporate office space can be used in other ways, and more willingness to just go back to the status quo.
- sosodev 3y ago
  That's a silly reach. There are many factors but I doubt any of them is the government.
- AbrahamParangi 3y ago
  This is a really interesting question to me because one can’t help but notice there are entities which are going to suffer immense pain if remote work continues. Specifically, anyone holding the bag of commercial real estate - particularly in high CoL cities. Edit: I strongly suspect there is a story here because if you happened to be holding that bag you would lobby, lie, cheat, steal, whatever you needed to do to try and get out from under that impending doom.
- sitkack 3y ago
  I have seen RTO being driven by the muni. There is an immediate risk for urban decay as all the secondary effects of thousands of people coming to place for 9+ hours a day disappear. Lots of city tax revenue vanished when people stopped coming into work.
iamleppert 3y ago
Is he seriously tweeting about this? Basically that is insubordination and grounds for termination. If this manager doesn't agree with the company policy, and isn't willing to pick up the slack of workers who are leaving or who have left and maintain the release date of the product, he's going to be shown the door too. Spending time creating a map of who left isn't a good move either and is not going to give any excuses as to why work can't get done, especially if it wasn't asked for by senior leadership. Every one is replaceable, including this manager who is questioning senior leadership. Complaining about it on Twitter isn't going to change anyone's mind who has made these decisions, it's just going to result in your own dismissal. It's a lot better to quiet quit and look for a new job if you feel your job has become impossible.
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  The only thing worse than overbearing nanny leadership that insists on controlling how and where people work is thin skinned leadership who can’t take “insubordination.” I don’t think they’re intending to change their leaderships mind. But maybe the mind of other leaders less feckless.
- int0x2e 3y ago
  You're absolutely correct. I really wish you weren't though - it makes me somewhat sad to see how often the more motivated and passionate a person is about what they do and even the success of their company, the more likely they are to eventually cross some political or etiquette boundary and end up paying for it.
  - carpet_wheel 3y ago
    The rub for me is how you are expected to show all the signs of motivation/passion throughout your career to anyone above you in the hierarchy who asks, but are then (as you describe) inevitably punished for it if you accidentally take any of that motivation/passion to heart. Motivation and passion are for the little people. They would do well to remember not to let their passions trick them into speaking out of turn.
- deleted 3y ago
varelse 3y ago
[dead]
borbulon 3y ago
if you can't figure out how to manage remote-only teams, then the problem isn't the workers, it's you.
redm 3y ago
I don't think this is a one-size fits all. I've been WFM for 7 years now. I don't think RTO is a bad thing, but its all situational. How silo'd are projects and how much inter-team coordination do you need? How long is your commute? What kind of person are you (some people just work better in office environments)? Do you need physical access to equipment? The list goes on. Being fully remote has allowed flexibility for team members to relocate without being forced to leave and thats been the biggest advantage. Going from a FTO to WFO or RTO is a big transition that requires re-defining workflows and communication mechanisms. Products like Zoom and Slack have made that far easier, but the bigger the organization, the harder the transition. Personally, I miss having an office. I've lost human connection by being isolated at home that isn't replaced with normal social interactions. Maybe thats just older men not making time, but office space traditionally filled that role for me.
- calvinmorrison 3y ago
  I just don't see how people can be more productive at home, maybe if they work in isolation. But my experience is that a culture of very interactive programming with team members solves problems fast and you can make light year jumps. Taking a project from a week into a day with two hands on it. That kind of thing works great in person. And it doesn't just benefit junior devs, but also srs who collaborate better. I think people are afraid of pair programming and it's very weird, as I love it. I do it a lot on zoom but it's not as good as in person.
  - markus_zhang 3y ago
    You can do pair programming on zoom too. Also maybe not everyone enjoys dealing with other people, especially nerds? For me WFH is definitely more productive. For a start, I don't have to commune for 90 mins into office. If I RTO I'll politely remove all meetings from other time zones out of 9-5 because I need to catch a train or drive a car. Also, by WFH I don't have people who happens to enjoy a lot of chatting and "collaboration in person" to suddenly appear in front of me and request a talk! God finally I can work.
  - reassembled 3y ago
markus_zhang 3y ago
My company is also forcing people to RTO even when there are multi hundreds of open opposition (and probably a thousand more silent opposition). As the article suggests, top performers can pick jobs anywhere and anytime. Even a depression as bad as 1929 still maintains about 60% employment. RTO will just drive away two kinds of people: top performers who prefer remote work, and people who are OE. Even for the second group, they are still good performers as they can handle two jobs without being noticed. Either way, only those inexperienced and coasting are going to stay. Good luck pushing out projects then.
elforce002 3y ago
I'd take a pay cut just to work from home.
- cephei 3y ago
  This may be more palatable for the company rather than calling the extra money for being in the office a "commute stipend", even though they are effectively the same.
chankstein38 3y ago
I'd love to see someone that C-levels would actually read write about this. None of them are checking PCGamer but this is a real problem, they read about trends and just follow them and I'd love to see some of them actually see what this is causing instead of just that everyone is doing it.
- thr-nrg 3y ago
  C level of a mid sized start up. Depends on the team. If you're doing js maintenance then I don't really care where you are. If you are developing new features I want you in an office at least two days a week with the rest of the team. Going off pointless tangents because you didn't understand the spec is something I'm seeing constantly regardless of seniority.
returnInfinity 3y ago
Startups that are born remote can disrupt existing businesses That being said, I don't think its possible to start a remote manufacturing business/factory.
myth2018 3y ago
Bad for the companies which are not managing to make WFH to work. It's surely not easy, though. It requires a number of skills on communication, organization (time management, adequate environment), and a good amount of discipline, both from managers and "managees". But I don't see companies trying to develop such critical competencies deliberately. They simply send people home and dream with the resulting cuts in costs -- at least that's my experience. I've seen WFH working amazingly well in some places; working terribly in others; or even working well at the beginning and deteriorating after some time; and, in the cases where WFH worked well, that happened essentially out of luck.
Animats 3y ago
Are the numbers of people in offices actually going up much? The company that runs cloud-based security gate systems said a few months back that the number of people badging in was below 50% of pre-pandemic levels. The commercial real estate market is tanking.[1] We've passed "peak office". Between work from home and better AI, there's just no real need for about half of the US's office space. Tearing down suburban office buildings to build housing is now a thing. The office building itself now has negative value.[2] It's even worse in retail. Shoppers are not returning to malls. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/10/business/commercial-real-estate-banks-offices/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/10/business/commercial-real-esta... [2] https://www.loopnet.com/learn/deal-of-the-month-22m-office-teardown-makes-way-for-multifamily/2115617288/ https://www.loopnet.com/learn/deal-of-the-month-22m-office-t...
- bombcar 3y ago
  > Shoppers are not returning to malls. About the only thing that malls had left going for them was trying on clothes; and a bunch of stores shuttered their dressing rooms during Covid and never re-opened them. So why bother? Order online and return what don't fit, and stay away from the ghastly creepy malls.
  - kortex 3y ago
    As a (former) mall rat in the lovely upstate NY, malls are great. You could go there and hang out with friends, maybe shop but usually not, socialize, people-watch, get a bite to eat. They are basically the "walkable town center" that suburban USA sorely lacks, and in the dead winter or scorching summer, are pretty awesome.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      Maybe they're still great for some (after all, I'm hardly a teenager anymore) but the times I've been forced by some Apple repair to enter them, they've felt pretty darn dead.
    - Corrado 3y ago
      Yea, back in my youth the mall was the place to be. Hang out at the music shop and dream of owning that drum kit or bass guitar. Hit the food court with your friends. Maybe buy a pair of shoes or something. However, in the last several years the attitude of malls has changed. We had a spate of kids being kids and running through the local mall last year and it scared all the shoppers. Now they won't let kids in without an adult and keep hassling them at every turn. Malls have become a hostile place to shoppers. At least in my area.
no_wizard 3y ago
In the US there was a proposal that I saw that would have given tax credits to businesses that allowed WFH as the default if they were willing to allow their corporate real estate get turned into housing (which in addition to selling it would have netted another credit) and for builders to get some additional leverage to take over these estates and turning them homes and service businesses. It was projected in 3-5 years time not only would the labor market generally be more competitive it would alleviate a lot of housing issues (not all, but alot) It was killed before it got to committee, and my second hand understanding is the Biden administration didn’t like it because it risked “possibly killing down towns across America” We could’ve had it better, but we chose not to
Grit_Roller 3y ago
I’ve worked from home (WFH) since 2013. I’ve been a top performer so many different times I’ve lost count. Each time I left an employer since I started- a basic requirement in my job search was -“remote” Just as important as the job title and salary range. I’ve managed remote teams myself and understand the unique challenges WFH can create - however, it is up to the company leadership to set clear expectations about what WFH looks like (and what it doesn’t). Company’s mandating return to office failed in setting expectations and managing to them accordingly. Don’t blame the entire workforce- learn from what didn’t work for your company and adapt. Otherwise, you’ll be left behind by those who did.
dmix 3y ago
I'd imagine game dev is a more collaborative sort of thing, at least at various stages. Where it'd help to be in office, at least to some degree. Maybe they can have management require being in office during key parts of projects or for parts of the month. Rather than a mandatory 3 days a week thing across the board.
- Pamar 3y ago
  Ok but... let's just pull a Pareto here and assume that times requiring the team to be together in the office are 20% of the total working time of any project. You are now paying rent (and utilities) for a space that is severely underutilized for 80% of the time. What about the food catering? The security? Parking space? All these collaterals cannot be dynamically scaled up and down at will.
  - dmix 3y ago
    Sure but not all of the business are developers or highly optimized for remote style work. It’s going to vary and keeping the base office can still potentially make sense for larger orgs. Plus you don’t need catering nor the total office size demands when you have 20% utilization at various times. You can offer those perks through monthly stripends not via the office. You can also stripend traveling costs to the office for the allotted monthly group time. Usage can also be coordinated and staggered virtually to manage demand. It’s going to require adapting to a new reality not pigeonholing the old system into the new one just in case people might use the office all at once.
    - Pamar 3y ago
      My comment was trying to address the fact that the current 3-days in the office rules are probably just a coarse grained response to the very real and present problem that companies are facing right now. Downsizing the office space to ensure handle just 20% of the headcount might be the answer, but: a) It will take time b) Getting rid of 80% of your office space is not really that much easier than getting rid of 95% of it, which is why the various companies are trying not to do it at all.
AlexandrB 3y ago
> The same employee also speculated that Blizzard is "tightening its belt right now and they want people to leave", which may affect Blizzard's plans for Diablo IV's post-release updates. If true, talk about incompetent management. If you need to slim down, ideally you'd want to identify the people and groups that can be laid off with least overall damage and do it all in one shot. "Layoffs by RTO" is a great way to have your best, most-employable staff trickle out over a period of months - constantly reminding anyone left behind that they're stuck working under a bunch of ding-a-lings so they might decide to leave next. How is Bobby still getting paid "the big bucks" to run ActivisionBlizzard this way?
- jmoak3 3y ago
  The worse a company is doing the more they have to pay the CEO to stick around. It’s a little strange but that’s where we end up. For the benefit of all companies, we need to find a way to produce more people qualified to lead large organizations so that they’re easier to swap. I support policies that make it easier for people to make organizations and remove roadblocks to achieve this. This will make existing companies leaner and produce more stock of qualified leaders.
- shrimp_emoji 3y ago
  He wanted to be bought by Microsoft, but he might not get off that easy. :p
Clubber 3y ago
>It's worth noting that the mandatory office attendance doesn't apply to ABK's executives. Recently hired execs like Chief Administrative Officer Brian Bulatao, and Chief Communications Officer Lulu Cheng Meservey, have full-time remote status. So much for RTO being good for communication.
_8j50 3y ago
Not just with this but other changes I am seeing, my strategy is to be in the top 20% talent and broaden my skillset so that I can have options. RTO is one thing but what if employment in tech itself becomes difficult. You already need lots of social networking and groveling as it is. You know what I keep wondering, why don't these companies look at the numbers and say "if you want to WFH you will get a 20% paycut" instead? People who are good at their job and like the company might just stick around even then. They get to save on top expensive talent.
stjohnswarts 3y ago
I can't imagine Blizzard execs would be so stupid to think that they wouldn't lose great people to other companies. Those people didn't have a single issue finding a new position somewhere else that paid better would be my guess.
danielrpa 3y ago
We have the same discussion over and over. Let me summarize the comments: some people like working remote, others prefer hybrid and some love going to the office every day. Companies that force a single work style will necessarily lose workers. The more interesting question, IMHO, is whether companies mandating a given work style will be more efficient than others that give people the choice. And among the ones mandating a style, whether one style in particular is more efficient in general. Which company from the options below is more likely to beat their competitors in the long run due to higher efficiency, quality, time to market etc? 1) A company that can hire ANY 100 workers who will fully work from home. 2) A company that can hire ANY 100 workers who will fully work from the office. 3) A company that can hire ANY 100 workers and give them the choice.
matty22 3y ago
Maybe some of those employees don't want to return to Blizzard offices _in particular_ considering that's where many of them were outright sexually assaulted?
jredwards 3y ago
My company is losing dozens of irreplaceable people due to forced RTO, and it may catastrophically undermine some of our products. Leadership does not care. It's shocking to me.

284 points by ahiknsr 3y ago

Just read the Kotaku article it links to, PC gamer isn't adding anything that I see. https://kotaku.com/blizzard-diablo-iv-world-warcraft-remote-work-delays-1850421033 https://kotaku.com/blizzard-diablo-iv-world-warcraft-remote-...

gumballindie 3y ago

Any manager asking for return to office should be sacked. Usually thats a sign of incompetence.

lisasays 3y ago
No, they should be educated. Heaven forbid you or I should be fired for the occasional mistake, or lopsided opinion.
- dymk 3y ago
  Executives aren’t making these decisions, from the very top, uneducated about what they’re doing
- ilyt 3y ago
  They should start with educating them how to manage remote/hybrid environment, because that's the most likely reason for their opinion. I've worked in all ranges from fully on-site to fully remote and it's all in organization and workflow and I can absolutely see some manager seeing drop in productivity when trying to pretend no changes are needed to be made for remote work.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  This is one of those types of “mistakes” that cost people’s mental health, family life, damage the environment and cost their employer talent.
  - lisasays 3y ago
    As does forced WFH for some people (minus the climate aspects). Or unskillfully conducted WFH (even when everyone agrees in principle). I think it's pretty clear that this is a topic that people have organic, gut-level differences of opinion on -- and not without a very substantial basis (thinking here of the experience of people who hate WFH and find it to be as damaging to their mental health as others find it to be liberating). I'm still in the camp that holds that on balance there are more benefits to WFH, and fewer downsides - provided everyone is on board. But what's needed to bridge the divide is more empathy for the other side - not a bullet to the head of everyone who disagrees with us.
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      I agree with you but it’s usually the onsite crowd that wants _everyone_ else onsite. I am all for mixed setups with some onsite some offsite but i strongly disagree with the anti freedom side (those who want everyone on site).

_cenw 3y ago

As usual, extrovert/control freak manager egos triumph over supposedly ideal market forces.

draw_down 3y ago

> DE&I also means diversity of thought, especially when it's backed by data and financials. No it doesn’t. Don’t get me wrong, that would be nice and all, but that isn’t the point of DEI.

gnicholas 3y ago
Where is this quote from? I don't see it in the article, or in other comments here.
- draw_down 3y ago
  [dead]

SketchySeaBeast 3y ago

It's funny to see this considering that, for WoW at least, it seems that pandemic and WFH helped them create the best expansion since 2016. The last two expansions had worse design and systems than their latest. I personally think the only reason WoW hasn't caught on again is that BfA / Shadowlands killed enthusiasm for the game.

blibble 3y ago
> I personally think the only reason WoW hasn't caught on again is that BfA / Shadowlands killed enthusiasm for the game. as a former WoW player (since beta!) we're all wise to the situation that if Blizzard gets its userbase back it will return to its previous abusive ways its reputation is unsalvageable
- SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
  I too have played since beta. But yeah, I'm wary of that and ready to head for the door if that happens, but I just resubbed a bit to enjoy 10.1. I'll play for a month and then disappear until new content drops again. It's not going to my forever game anymore, but when it's good it'll get a month or two out of me.
- jandrese 3y ago
  I personally think Blizzard's fate was sealed when they were bought by Activision. Big corporate overlords can never keep their mitts off of successful subsidiaries for too long.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
foobarian 3y ago
Come to think of it Diablo 4 too is shaping up to be the best Diablo since D2 days.
- adra 3y ago
  There was only one game in between. The number of viable titles in this genre are looking almost as bad as RTS which has also taken a big tumblr on popularity over the years. The question will stand if D4 will be able to engage the hardcores more than POE and still be able to attract normals enough to stick around and spend the big money. Time will tell.

pierat 3y ago

> It's worth noting that the mandatory office attendance doesn't apply to ABK's executives. Recently hired execs like Chief Administrative Officer Brian Bulatao, and Chief Communications Officer Lulu Cheng Meservey, have full-time remote status. Basically, if we want these rights of remote work, we're going to have to unionize and fight for them. The elites already have this right. The lines are being drawn. Fight or acquiesce.

vasco 3y ago
Or you know, you can quit and go to a full-remote company. Good companies need good people so this would fix itself. If most of my colleagues and the owners of the company I work for decide they prefer to work in an office, why would I enforce my will upon them, instead of finding people that agree with me? I quit my last job to work fully remote and my boss knows I'd quit the day we'd remove that.
- ausbah 3y ago
  >If most of my colleagues and the owners of the company I work for decide they prefer to work in an office, why would I enforce my will upon them but this isn't the case, it's management making BS decisions no one really likes. the market is in favor of capital & management in the current market climate so collective action is the only way to push back imo
  - thih9 3y ago
    What do you mean by BS? Is it really BS? Perhaps it’s genuinely easier for the management to keep people in the office?
    - krainboltgreene 3y ago
      Show me your deed to the factory or board of directors signature.
      - 3y ago

ghusto 3y ago

They hinted that this was a way to downsize, and it doesn't seem implausible. There's no severance pay if you quit.

ncallaway 3y ago
The problem is taking away benefits as a way to downside ensures that the people _most able_ to secure those benefits from other companies will leave. If your goal is to ensure that you're getting rid of your top talent, it's a fine strategy.
- ikiris 3y ago
  They're the ones that usually cost money so it can often be the target audience.
  - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
    Companies hire and promote the best because the value they deliver massively outstrips their cost. If that wasn't the case, they'd already be pip'd out. Using RTO to increase attrition is an absolutely brain dead strategy.
- ilyt 3y ago
  But it's super effective, the people that cost you the most leave without severance!
- tomtheelder 3y ago
  > taking away benefits It’s not that simple. For folks who prefer remote, remote is a benefit. For folks who prefer an in office work style, remote being an option is an “anti” benefit since it totally kills the value of in person work. You’re going to lose top talent either way. The last org I worked at went remote and lost a bunch of high performers to places that were in office. I ended up leaving for unrelated reasons. It seems like things ended up totally stabilizing and now they are in a happy state of remote culture, but it absolutely cost them along the way.

neovialogistics 3y ago

Long term staff retention really seems to pay off in the entertainment industry. Nintendo, Valve, FX, NBC, off the top of my head. Not sure how viable it is for smaller companies.

foota 3y ago
Small indie companies can't be expected to retain employees :-)
- lisasays 3y ago
  That's the stereotype. Fortunately counterexamples abound, and they are some of the best companies to work for.
  - antonyt 3y ago
    It's a joke about Blizzard. "Small indie company" is a meme players use to sarcastically justify why content is delayed, fixes aren't delivered, etc.
    - lisasays 3y ago
      I am now enlightened. Thank you.

consumer451 3y ago

It now seems a bit obvious that this type of policy will lead to the best performers flying the coup, as they are the ones most likely to be in a position to dictate the terms of their employment.

tomtheelder 3y ago
The last org I worked at went remote during the pandemic, and lost a big chunk of top performers because of it. They went to companies with the sort of vibrant office that my org had prior to the pandemic. It’s a lose-lose. And hybrid isn’t a solution at all; it’s a bad outcome for both sides. Over time things are just going to settle into remote orgs and in person orgs, and all that’s happening now is that companies are deciding which side of the fence to come down on. Either choice hurts in the short term.
- Suppafly 3y ago
  You've repeated a few times that the top performers left because of WFH, but I don't believe you. Unless you're in some weird industry where top performers love vibrant offices (which don't really exist) this seems made up.
  - MrScruff 3y ago
    Not the person you’re replying to but I work in an industry not to dissimilar to games and many of the top performers love in-person collaboration. They come into the office every day even though they’re not obliged to.
  - tomtheelder 3y ago
    I mentioned my situation twice, because it was relevant to both comments. I worked at a tech company. We had an internal poll when decision making was made around this, and the breakdown was about 30% prefer full time in office, 40% wanted hybrid, and another 30% wanted full time remote. The high performers who left were mostly in sales and marketing, for what it's worth. Engineering suffered almost no attrition, but IMO (and I say this as an engineer) SWEs are much more fungible than sales people even if they are more expensive. I think the discourse on forums like this one and Reddit, dominated by highly-online folks (especially engineers), has given folks a skewed perspective on the general population's preferences regarding office work. Most folks in my personal network do not work in tech. Among them the solid majority prefer a hybrid setup, with only a small portion preferring full-time remote or full-time in-office. But that leads to a very strong majority preferring that their organization have an active and vibrant office.

ilyt 3y ago

At this point MS/Actiblizzard falling thru would be a blessing in disguise for MS

andrewdubinsky 3y ago

RTO has simply become a structural disadvantage. Companies that cannot manage remote teams simply won't be able to attract top talent. Even if 80% of companies RTO the remaining 20% that recruit remote-only jobs will create massive disruption in top performers. HR has their head in the sand because so many companies are either freezing hiring or reducing headcount, but there's a real issue here. Talented people just don't need to consider onsite work, period. The only way you work onsite is you are inexperienced or you don't have another job. Maybe you want a big name on your resume. Either way those are jobs that will need to be filled again. In this article, they state openly that Blizzard is managing a crisis to ship multiple products. The cost of a failed product release outstrips their lease cost by orders of magnitude. I don't get the play here. What's the outlook on the next release cycle without talent?

xiphias2 3y ago
Case-by-case (what Google / OpenAI does) where top talent is identified and allowed WFH may outcompete both full-remote and both no-wfh companies (no-wfh is over at this point). It's a nice dream to have everyone wfh, but most people may not have that leverage / experience.
- dymk 3y ago
  That’s what a union is for
  - collegeburner 3y ago
    why would top talent risk their jobs and get less for the sake of supporting underperformers? thats how unions work in this case. they make a lot more sense where there's stuff like blatant safety issues in factory settings than when e1s are Mad Online that they have to go into office and it's Literally 1984
    - dymk 3y ago
      Why do doctors and writers have unions? None of them are in a meat packing floor. Everybody thinks they’re special until they’re not. Tons of top talent at Amazon and Facebook were recently laid off. You’re not safe just because you’re smart.

kayson 3y ago

What is their policy? Full time in-office?

gautamdivgi 3y ago

Is RTO being driven by the government? There suddenly seems to be huge push this year and not much in 2022. Allegedly commercial real estate is something that many banks have exposure to and will not be solved unless RTO is implemented. This is just my hypothesis and obviously correlation isn't causation.

hemloc_io 3y ago
I don't think it's totally driven by the govt, but it's driven by the companies that want to preserve certain benefits and influence in the govt. Their interests just happen to be against, literally everyone else in terms of a full reversion.
mym1990 3y ago
There is certainly worry that as lease contracts expire, the combination of higher interest rates and vacant offices will create huge losses for real estate developers, and these can cause a cascading domino effect of further losses. How the communication flows from the government or RE developers to executives is beyond my understanding, but it looks like there is not much willingness to rethink how corporate office space can be used in other ways, and more willingness to just go back to the status quo.
sosodev 3y ago
That's a silly reach. There are many factors but I doubt any of them is the government.
AbrahamParangi 3y ago
This is a really interesting question to me because one can’t help but notice there are entities which are going to suffer immense pain if remote work continues. Specifically, anyone holding the bag of commercial real estate - particularly in high CoL cities. Edit: I strongly suspect there is a story here because if you happened to be holding that bag you would lobby, lie, cheat, steal, whatever you needed to do to try and get out from under that impending doom.
sitkack 3y ago
I have seen RTO being driven by the muni. There is an immediate risk for urban decay as all the secondary effects of thousands of people coming to place for 9+ hours a day disappear. Lots of city tax revenue vanished when people stopped coming into work.

iamleppert 3y ago

Is he seriously tweeting about this? Basically that is insubordination and grounds for termination. If this manager doesn't agree with the company policy, and isn't willing to pick up the slack of workers who are leaving or who have left and maintain the release date of the product, he's going to be shown the door too. Spending time creating a map of who left isn't a good move either and is not going to give any excuses as to why work can't get done, especially if it wasn't asked for by senior leadership. Every one is replaceable, including this manager who is questioning senior leadership. Complaining about it on Twitter isn't going to change anyone's mind who has made these decisions, it's just going to result in your own dismissal. It's a lot better to quiet quit and look for a new job if you feel your job has become impossible.

fnordpiglet 3y ago
The only thing worse than overbearing nanny leadership that insists on controlling how and where people work is thin skinned leadership who can’t take “insubordination.” I don’t think they’re intending to change their leaderships mind. But maybe the mind of other leaders less feckless.
int0x2e 3y ago
You're absolutely correct. I really wish you weren't though - it makes me somewhat sad to see how often the more motivated and passionate a person is about what they do and even the success of their company, the more likely they are to eventually cross some political or etiquette boundary and end up paying for it.
- carpet_wheel 3y ago
  The rub for me is how you are expected to show all the signs of motivation/passion throughout your career to anyone above you in the hierarchy who asks, but are then (as you describe) inevitably punished for it if you accidentally take any of that motivation/passion to heart. Motivation and passion are for the little people. They would do well to remember not to let their passions trick them into speaking out of turn.
deleted 3y ago

varelse 3y ago

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borbulon 3y ago

if you can't figure out how to manage remote-only teams, then the problem isn't the workers, it's you.

redm 3y ago

I don't think this is a one-size fits all. I've been WFM for 7 years now. I don't think RTO is a bad thing, but its all situational. How silo'd are projects and how much inter-team coordination do you need? How long is your commute? What kind of person are you (some people just work better in office environments)? Do you need physical access to equipment? The list goes on. Being fully remote has allowed flexibility for team members to relocate without being forced to leave and thats been the biggest advantage. Going from a FTO to WFO or RTO is a big transition that requires re-defining workflows and communication mechanisms. Products like Zoom and Slack have made that far easier, but the bigger the organization, the harder the transition. Personally, I miss having an office. I've lost human connection by being isolated at home that isn't replaced with normal social interactions. Maybe thats just older men not making time, but office space traditionally filled that role for me.

calvinmorrison 3y ago
I just don't see how people can be more productive at home, maybe if they work in isolation. But my experience is that a culture of very interactive programming with team members solves problems fast and you can make light year jumps. Taking a project from a week into a day with two hands on it. That kind of thing works great in person. And it doesn't just benefit junior devs, but also srs who collaborate better. I think people are afraid of pair programming and it's very weird, as I love it. I do it a lot on zoom but it's not as good as in person.
- markus_zhang 3y ago
  You can do pair programming on zoom too. Also maybe not everyone enjoys dealing with other people, especially nerds? For me WFH is definitely more productive. For a start, I don't have to commune for 90 mins into office. If I RTO I'll politely remove all meetings from other time zones out of 9-5 because I need to catch a train or drive a car. Also, by WFH I don't have people who happens to enjoy a lot of chatting and "collaboration in person" to suddenly appear in front of me and request a talk! God finally I can work.
- reassembled 3y ago

markus_zhang 3y ago

My company is also forcing people to RTO even when there are multi hundreds of open opposition (and probably a thousand more silent opposition). As the article suggests, top performers can pick jobs anywhere and anytime. Even a depression as bad as 1929 still maintains about 60% employment. RTO will just drive away two kinds of people: top performers who prefer remote work, and people who are OE. Even for the second group, they are still good performers as they can handle two jobs without being noticed. Either way, only those inexperienced and coasting are going to stay. Good luck pushing out projects then.

elforce002 3y ago

I'd take a pay cut just to work from home.

cephei 3y ago
This may be more palatable for the company rather than calling the extra money for being in the office a "commute stipend", even though they are effectively the same.

chankstein38 3y ago

I'd love to see someone that C-levels would actually read write about this. None of them are checking PCGamer but this is a real problem, they read about trends and just follow them and I'd love to see some of them actually see what this is causing instead of just that everyone is doing it.

thr-nrg 3y ago
C level of a mid sized start up. Depends on the team. If you're doing js maintenance then I don't really care where you are. If you are developing new features I want you in an office at least two days a week with the rest of the team. Going off pointless tangents because you didn't understand the spec is something I'm seeing constantly regardless of seniority.

returnInfinity 3y ago

Startups that are born remote can disrupt existing businesses That being said, I don't think its possible to start a remote manufacturing business/factory.

myth2018 3y ago

Bad for the companies which are not managing to make WFH to work. It's surely not easy, though. It requires a number of skills on communication, organization (time management, adequate environment), and a good amount of discipline, both from managers and "managees". But I don't see companies trying to develop such critical competencies deliberately. They simply send people home and dream with the resulting cuts in costs -- at least that's my experience. I've seen WFH working amazingly well in some places; working terribly in others; or even working well at the beginning and deteriorating after some time; and, in the cases where WFH worked well, that happened essentially out of luck.

Animats 3y ago

Are the numbers of people in offices actually going up much? The company that runs cloud-based security gate systems said a few months back that the number of people badging in was below 50% of pre-pandemic levels. The commercial real estate market is tanking.[1] We've passed "peak office". Between work from home and better AI, there's just no real need for about half of the US's office space. Tearing down suburban office buildings to build housing is now a thing. The office building itself now has negative value.[2] It's even worse in retail. Shoppers are not returning to malls. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/10/business/commercial-real-estate-banks-offices/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/10/business/commercial-real-esta... [2] https://www.loopnet.com/learn/deal-of-the-month-22m-office-teardown-makes-way-for-multifamily/2115617288/ https://www.loopnet.com/learn/deal-of-the-month-22m-office-t...

bombcar 3y ago
> Shoppers are not returning to malls. About the only thing that malls had left going for them was trying on clothes; and a bunch of stores shuttered their dressing rooms during Covid and never re-opened them. So why bother? Order online and return what don't fit, and stay away from the ghastly creepy malls.
- kortex 3y ago
  As a (former) mall rat in the lovely upstate NY, malls are great. You could go there and hang out with friends, maybe shop but usually not, socialize, people-watch, get a bite to eat. They are basically the "walkable town center" that suburban USA sorely lacks, and in the dead winter or scorching summer, are pretty awesome.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Maybe they're still great for some (after all, I'm hardly a teenager anymore) but the times I've been forced by some Apple repair to enter them, they've felt pretty darn dead.
  - Corrado 3y ago
    Yea, back in my youth the mall was the place to be. Hang out at the music shop and dream of owning that drum kit or bass guitar. Hit the food court with your friends. Maybe buy a pair of shoes or something. However, in the last several years the attitude of malls has changed. We had a spate of kids being kids and running through the local mall last year and it scared all the shoppers. Now they won't let kids in without an adult and keep hassling them at every turn. Malls have become a hostile place to shoppers. At least in my area.

no_wizard 3y ago

In the US there was a proposal that I saw that would have given tax credits to businesses that allowed WFH as the default if they were willing to allow their corporate real estate get turned into housing (which in addition to selling it would have netted another credit) and for builders to get some additional leverage to take over these estates and turning them homes and service businesses. It was projected in 3-5 years time not only would the labor market generally be more competitive it would alleviate a lot of housing issues (not all, but alot) It was killed before it got to committee, and my second hand understanding is the Biden administration didn’t like it because it risked “possibly killing down towns across America” We could’ve had it better, but we chose not to

Grit_Roller 3y ago

I’ve worked from home (WFH) since 2013. I’ve been a top performer so many different times I’ve lost count. Each time I left an employer since I started- a basic requirement in my job search was -“remote” Just as important as the job title and salary range. I’ve managed remote teams myself and understand the unique challenges WFH can create - however, it is up to the company leadership to set clear expectations about what WFH looks like (and what it doesn’t). Company’s mandating return to office failed in setting expectations and managing to them accordingly. Don’t blame the entire workforce- learn from what didn’t work for your company and adapt. Otherwise, you’ll be left behind by those who did.

dmix 3y ago

I'd imagine game dev is a more collaborative sort of thing, at least at various stages. Where it'd help to be in office, at least to some degree. Maybe they can have management require being in office during key parts of projects or for parts of the month. Rather than a mandatory 3 days a week thing across the board.

Pamar 3y ago
Ok but... let's just pull a Pareto here and assume that times requiring the team to be together in the office are 20% of the total working time of any project. You are now paying rent (and utilities) for a space that is severely underutilized for 80% of the time. What about the food catering? The security? Parking space? All these collaterals cannot be dynamically scaled up and down at will.
- dmix 3y ago
  Sure but not all of the business are developers or highly optimized for remote style work. It’s going to vary and keeping the base office can still potentially make sense for larger orgs. Plus you don’t need catering nor the total office size demands when you have 20% utilization at various times. You can offer those perks through monthly stripends not via the office. You can also stripend traveling costs to the office for the allotted monthly group time. Usage can also be coordinated and staggered virtually to manage demand. It’s going to require adapting to a new reality not pigeonholing the old system into the new one just in case people might use the office all at once.
  - Pamar 3y ago
    My comment was trying to address the fact that the current 3-days in the office rules are probably just a coarse grained response to the very real and present problem that companies are facing right now. Downsizing the office space to ensure handle just 20% of the headcount might be the answer, but: a) It will take time b) Getting rid of 80% of your office space is not really that much easier than getting rid of 95% of it, which is why the various companies are trying not to do it at all.

AlexandrB 3y ago

> The same employee also speculated that Blizzard is "tightening its belt right now and they want people to leave", which may affect Blizzard's plans for Diablo IV's post-release updates. If true, talk about incompetent management. If you need to slim down, ideally you'd want to identify the people and groups that can be laid off with least overall damage and do it all in one shot. "Layoffs by RTO" is a great way to have your best, most-employable staff trickle out over a period of months - constantly reminding anyone left behind that they're stuck working under a bunch of ding-a-lings so they might decide to leave next. How is Bobby still getting paid "the big bucks" to run ActivisionBlizzard this way?

jmoak3 3y ago
The worse a company is doing the more they have to pay the CEO to stick around. It’s a little strange but that’s where we end up. For the benefit of all companies, we need to find a way to produce more people qualified to lead large organizations so that they’re easier to swap. I support policies that make it easier for people to make organizations and remove roadblocks to achieve this. This will make existing companies leaner and produce more stock of qualified leaders.
shrimp_emoji 3y ago
He wanted to be bought by Microsoft, but he might not get off that easy. :p

Clubber 3y ago

_8j50 3y ago

Not just with this but other changes I am seeing, my strategy is to be in the top 20% talent and broaden my skillset so that I can have options. RTO is one thing but what if employment in tech itself becomes difficult. You already need lots of social networking and groveling as it is. You know what I keep wondering, why don't these companies look at the numbers and say "if you want to WFH you will get a 20% paycut" instead? People who are good at their job and like the company might just stick around even then. They get to save on top expensive talent.

stjohnswarts 3y ago

I can't imagine Blizzard execs would be so stupid to think that they wouldn't lose great people to other companies. Those people didn't have a single issue finding a new position somewhere else that paid better would be my guess.

danielrpa 3y ago

We have the same discussion over and over. Let me summarize the comments: some people like working remote, others prefer hybrid and some love going to the office every day. Companies that force a single work style will necessarily lose workers. The more interesting question, IMHO, is whether companies mandating a given work style will be more efficient than others that give people the choice. And among the ones mandating a style, whether one style in particular is more efficient in general. Which company from the options below is more likely to beat their competitors in the long run due to higher efficiency, quality, time to market etc? 1) A company that can hire ANY 100 workers who will fully work from home. 2) A company that can hire ANY 100 workers who will fully work from the office. 3) A company that can hire ANY 100 workers and give them the choice.

matty22 3y ago

Maybe some of those employees don't want to return to Blizzard offices _in particular_ considering that's where many of them were outright sexually assaulted?

jredwards 3y ago

My company is losing dozens of irreplaceable people due to forced RTO, and it may catastrophically undermine some of our products. Leadership does not care. It's shocking to me.