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I live inside the original area in Phoenix where they did their training. I have to give kudos where it's due. I originally _hated_ their cars constantly drivin

I live inside the original area in Phoenix where they did their training. I have to give kudos where it's due. I originally _hated_ their cars constantly driving around our neighborhood, but I was persuaded to try one a few weeks back. It completely changed my mind. They are now my favorite way to get around. I am a very happy, frequent customer and hope they keep adding coverage and more cars. This is absolutely the future I want to live in.

kccqzy 3y ago
For those of us not located in areas where Waymo is available, do you mind elaborating on why this is your favorite way to get around? As compared to Uber, Lyft, etc.
- ra7 3y ago
  I’ve only taken a couple of Waymo rides when I went to Phoenix. I would take them over Uber/Lyft any day, if Waymo offered rides in my city because: * They are very safe and you’re not at the mercy of the Uber/Lyft driver’s driving skills. * Their cars are pretty good (Jaguar I-Pace fleet) and generally very clean. You know what you’re getting every time. * You don’t have to interact with a driver. * No tipping.
- austinkhale 3y ago
  - The cars are very safe, very conservative drivers - The interiors are nice, well air conditioned and don't smell - You don't have to talk to a person, which I don't always hate but have had some bad experiences. This just removes the roll of the dice from the equation entirely. - They are currently at par or cheaper with Uber/Lyft prices and typically it's faster for the car to arrive - You get to play your own music
  - josefx 3y ago
    > You don't have to talk to a person, which I don't always hate but have had some bad experiences. This just removes the roll of the dice from the equation entirely. Given that they are a Google/Alphabet company this seems like a missed opportunity for running ads on loop.
    - xnx 3y ago
      The attention of a captive audience will absolutely be monetized. This could happen any number of ways, but likely that there will be an option (like YouTube) to pay extra for an ad-free experience.
  - trgn 3y ago
    > - The cars are very safe, very conservative drivers So great to hear. Seeing videos of self-driving Tesla made me fear for the worst.
    - what_ever 3y ago
      Tbh, you shouldn't compare Tesla "AutoPilot" with these full self driving options.
      - cheonic20058 3y ago
        > Tbh, you shouldn't compare Tesla "AutoPilot" with these full self driving options. Right. Because Tesla FSD “beta” is not guaranteed, even if you pay for the monthly subscription. And even if you did have Tesla FSD beta, it’s a pile of shit. It’s gets worse every quarter as they continue to remove safety sensors from vehicles due to supply chain issues.
        speedgoose 3y ago
        We haven’t watched the same FSD videos on YouTube lately but ok.
      - speedgoose 3y ago
        The Tesla full self driving private beta is more comparable, but not able to drive by itself for long time.
        itsoktocry 3y ago
        >The Tesla full self driving private beta is more comparable Have they removed the "you need to be fully aware and ready to grab the wheel" requirements of FSD? If not, how is this comparable? There is no driver.
        speedgoose 3y ago
        I mention that in the second part of the sentence you quote. It's comparable in some ways because the car drives itself most of the time. And apparently is not restricted to some well mapped areas.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    > You don't have to talk to a person My partner has been propositioned and harassed over a dozen times by Uber drivers. I think for many this is going to be a killer feature.
    - kypro 3y ago
      Yeah, as a guy I personally quite enjoy interacting with my driver (if I feel like it anyway). But basically every young female I know has been spoken to or treated inappropriately by taxi drivers here in the UK. I think Uber has solved this to some degree with their rating system, but it's still a big problem.
    - drusepth 3y ago
      I think a lot of Lyft's early "we're like Uber, but better for women!" marketing hints that this is a killer feature that will absolutely drive growth. Especially now that Lyft, too, is saturated to the point of equally-risky drivers as Uber was/is.
    - oh_sigh 3y ago
      I feel like once they start rolling out to more and more locales, we will be hit with a spate of news stories like "creepy guy wouldn't let my car drive away by standing in front of it and leering at me"
      - xnx 3y ago
        Another benefit to Waymo vehicles: Full video recording of all road interactions
    - NewMountain 3y ago
      I had an Uber driver in upstate New York who was trying to get me to agree or at least not disagree with the superiority of the white "race". I had another driver in Oakland California who would not relent until I acknowledged God is real and I should be thankful for his love. I felt massive cognitive dissonance afterwards feeling both the requirement to report these drivers but also massive guilt at the non-zero chance I was depriving them of one if not the last potential for work available to them. I decided not to report either but still reflect on whether that was a good choice or not. Edit: to be totally clear: I did not agree in either situation, but tried to gracefully divert or redirect without escalating the situation. I didn't confront as, frankly, I wasn't sure if the person would have responded violently. Uber is valuable, but I have kind of accepted the premise that an Uber drive is just a public transit experience with a customized destination. I should expect some potentially weird and possibly unpleasant interactions as part of the process. I would 100% convert to Waymo only away from Uber just based on those two experiences and dozens if not hundreds of generally positive Uber experiences.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    Adding: - they’re cheap. $5/ride. - they’re fun. It’s a self-driving car! That’s cool! I genuinely had fun every time I was taken around in one.
  - arecurrence 3y ago
    Does it prompt for a tip?
    - xnx 3y ago
      No
      - tradertef 3y ago
        That would be a sole reason to use this for me..
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - kpw94 3y ago
    > The interiors are nice, well air conditioned and don't smell If they scale, that will become a problem: - people puking in car - people having sex in car - people eating greasy fries in car These happen in public transportation too (the sex one not as often, but puking, eating smelly/gross food definitely), but the big difference here is that users won't be anonymous. The next waymo rider (or waymo staff if the car stops by some inspection checkpoint between rides, or some extra in-car sensors) will be able to report the incident, which would flag repeating bad riders over time. Overall the experience would be as good as a Uber today, as like you said, no roll of the dice on the driver. Another new problem specific to self driving and not seen for public transportation: muggers driving a high speed bike targeting isolated rides (they'll know how easy it is to make the car stop, smash a window, and get the rider's valuables). Basically the modern version of stagecoach robberies. One could argue these already happens in Europe on highways with traffic jams, but I can see the muggers being more active at night, since in addition to knowing the rider can't try to escape, there's also less crowds around. It'll be very dependants on regions : In Phoenix, I'd assume less often as muggers won't know if the rider is carrying.
    - maccard 3y ago
      > These happen in public transportation too (the sex one not as often, but puking, eating smelly/gross food definitely), Eh, I've used public transport regularly for 10+ years in two countries as a resident and in many, many cities as a visitor, and I can count on one hand the number of incidents I've had where someone has thrown up/left vomit on the bus or train I was on. The greasy/smelly food thing is slightly true, but let's be real, someone eating a McDonald's on a train for 10 minutes out of a 4 hour journey is partially because there's no other choice for food on that train on a long journey. On short distance transit (within the city/region) I genuinely can't remember the last time I had an issue with someone eating on the bus. > Another new problem specific to self driving and not seen for public transportation This is just FUD. If someone stepped out in front of me in a car in my city, I would stop. It's just as likely that two people step in front of me, one smashes my window and grabs my valuables and the other stops me from driving off, as it is that they pinpoint driverless cars.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- stingrae 3y ago
  For me in SF using cruise, I find them to be much safer and smoother drivers than Uber/Lyfts. I don't get car sick and I don't have to worry for my safety.
petters 3y ago
Can't believe you post on HN haven't tried them. I've been thinking of a vacation to Phoenix just to try them and I live in Europe :)
dopamean 3y ago
Why did you hate them at first? What about the experience of using the service changed your opinion?
- austinkhale 3y ago
  > Why did you hate them at first? I walk my dogs twice a day and the cars are constantly driving by with their array of sensors. Made me feel like I was being constantly filmed and recorded... which as I understand them to work I certainly was/am. Outside of that, I resented being involuntarily part of a science experiment that is objectively pretty dangerous all things considered. For example, I would never cross the street when one was coming down the road. I didn't trust them. > What about the experience of using the service changed your opinion? The UX is really incredible. The car handled driving very, very well. Much better/safer than most Uber/Lyft's I've been in. Made me realize how freeing this technology will be for those that don't have the ability to drive. If you don't have a car / don't have the ability to drive in Phoenix, you're going to have a bad time. Walkability here is typically very poor.
  - dilap 3y ago
    Yeah, as a skateboarder in SF a few years ago, the driverless cars for testing were already way more predictable and generally chill than the human Uber drivers, who would do all kinds of crazy, erratic things. In an ideal world, we'd have physical separation for peds/bikes/skateboards/etc and motorized vehicles, but if we have to share, I'd much rather share with AI than humans. (That's my pedestrian perspective. As a driver, I love driving and would hate to lose the right. But honestly I think the writing is on the wall, especially in dense urban environments.)
  - sgtnoodle 3y ago
    Regarding the risk of stepping out in front of a Waymo vehicle, I personally wouldn't be too concerned about it as long as there's adequate stopping distance to begin with. You're most definitely being picked up by at least a few different sensors, even from hundreds of ft away. If the car is able to correctly categorize you as a pedestrian, it's constantly re-assessing the probability of you stepping into its path based on multiple visual cues, adjusting its behavior accordingly. If the car isn't able to categorize you, it's still seeing you as a large blob that isn't in its static world map, so it's going to aggressively stop out of caution rather than try driving through you. The reliance on a static world map is a very big safety feature in my opinion. I wouldn't be as confident stepping into the path of a Tesla.
conorh 3y ago
I've gone over to Chandler to check them out - was also really impressed, very smooth ride! I'm on the wrong side of I-10 unfortunately for getting regular rides from my house :/
stouset 3y ago
I'll contrast this with Cruise, which are driving autonomously in San Francisco. I hate them. At least in the area I'm in (the Inner Sunset), they often cruise around with no passengers while waiting for a request. While doing so, they circle around idling at 10-15mph, pausing for 30 seconds or more at stop signs. It's long enough where just when you decide they've completely stopped and start to go around, they "wake up" and start moving again. I have personally been held up by four separate Cruise vehicles acting this way within a ten block section of a single trip. It is maddening, and there's no safe or reasonable way to pass them. I am generally quite patient and not particularly affected by road rage, but I'll confess that I have spent significant amounts of time fantasizing about an Office Space printer scene styled destruction of these vehicles. They need to either find places to pull over (ideal) or drive like normal participants in traffic. Their current behavior feels disruptively slow (cars end up backed up behind them) and simultaneously unpredictable and confusing. Worse, in other areas like Fell St., they drive exclusively in the left hand lane while driving 15mph below the flow of traffic. This actually causes significantly extra traffic during busier times as that street is often at or near capacity. It also disrupts the design of that road, which has a "green wave" of lights paced at about 30mph. Dramatically fewer cars make it through any section of road when you have one car driving 20mph that prompts everyone behind it to merge over to the right, further impacting the throughput of other lanes. I've also seen acute instances where they completely fail in situations where humans would cooperate to solve an issue. In one instance, a left-turning Muni bus was unable to complete the turn due to a Cruise vehicle coming from that direction. The Cruise vehicle had entered too far into the intersection before stopping. There's paint on the intersection to indicate that cars need to stop further back, and the Cruise had failed to obey this. The bus was unable to back up due to traffic behind it as well as visibility concerns, and the only real solution was for the Cruise vehicle to move out of the way. There was, however, no way to instruct, plead with, or otherwise convince the Cruise to move. It had no place in particular to be, so it had no reason to decide to do anything other than sit in place with infinite patience and wait for everyone else to resolve the situation on its behalf. I watched as this completely gridlocked a busy intersection for at least five cycles of traffic lights before I got bored and left. I have no idea how they finally unwedged the situation, but I have to imagine it involved the bus driver getting out and having the cars behind clear a space for it to back up and allow the Cruise to complete its prime directive and pass. Will these things get better? Sure. But right now, they are inexcusably bad drivers.
icey 3y ago
Same here (downtown Phoenix area) -- the driverless Waymos have been awesome. Occasionally they get confused but it seems pretty rare. They're better than a lot of the other drivers on the road out here. I'm mostly excited that they upped the allowed passenger count from 3 to 4. Usually we take a car if we're going out to dinner with friends but the 3 passenger limit made taking one of these a pain in the ass or impossible.
- drusepth 3y ago
  Does the fourth passenger sit in the "driver's" seat, or is it a three-packed-in-the-back kind of situation? Never seen a self-driving-car in person, but I assume it's the standard 4-seater sedan layout, right?
  - rwmj 3y ago
    I wonder if there's some regulation behind why they haven't got rid of the traditional front-facing layout entirely and replaced it with train carriage style seats around a table?
    - HyperSane 3y ago
      That would be a very expensive modification to make on all their cars.
    - windowsrookie 3y ago
      These cars still have to meet all federal crash safety standards. Modifying the seating position would also require modifying the airbags, seat belts, seat belt pre-tensioners, etc. Then the vehicle would have to be crash tested again to ensure it is safe for the passengers.
  - ilaksh 3y ago
    They are vans.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
ajcp 3y ago
I live downtown PHX (Roosevelt Row) and beyond riding in them I MUCH prefer them driving around on the streets than actual human drivers. There isn't a day goes by that I don't see drivers make up 4-way stops, disregard the 4-way stops, flip a youey in the middle of an intersection, etc. Contrast that to the ever predictable Weymo, just quietly going about their little self-driving existence. Only problem I've seen with them is people don't realize that just because you wave them through doesn't mean they will proceed. If a Waymo sees a human on the corner that looks like they will cross it will stop and wait until the heat-death of the universe for them to cross.
- George83728 3y ago
  > If a Waymo sees a human on the corner that looks like they will cross it will stop and wait until the heat-death of the universe for them to cross. I've had humans do this, when I had no intention of crossing the street because I was just standing at the corner waiting to meet somebody. At least the humans give up after a few seconds, with exacerbated expressions like I'm the one who did something wrong. It would be pretty funny to see a robot car sit there for minutes.
  - sokka_h2otribe 3y ago
    I do this all the time as a walker too! But I try to step away from the curb and signal clear dis-intent. That's bc when I'm driving the neccesary bias is to assume that all pedestrians could be erratic and go into the street at anytime. It's neccesary because even if it's only 10% you can't accept any errors. In other words, I'm trying to politely set the groundwork to say I think you are wrong if we assume having pedestrians signal clear dis-intent to cross is a reasonable requirement. Of course, the drivers are also wrong to be exasperated with you so I do think in a sense both parties are wrong :D.)
    - George83728 3y ago
      The times it's happened to me, I was leaning up against a lamp post or telephone pole. Most drivers don't get confused, but some of the time somebody does. If I actually intend to cross, I stand up straight and attentive on the curb.
dangus 3y ago
A hopefully not-too-annoying reminder that this isn’t a future that is sustainable or desirable to live in compared with alternatives. It’s really just better than the automotive hellscape you are used to. Phoenix is one of the most car-centric places to live in the country. The only reason anyone needs a service like this is because of the area’s complete failure in urban planning. Car-focused infrastructure is incredibly expensive per capita compared to alternatives that prioritizing walking, cycling, and public transit. It maximizes the amount of public utilities (roads, sewers, etc) needed to serve one family. One pair of train tracks can serve more human commuters than a 12-lane highway. One bus can replace 30-40 cars, and neither option needs fancy automation to be more cost and carbon efficient than a robotaxi. Waymo might band-aid the transit situation where you live but it’s doing nothing to address the fundamental problems with large urban areas that require the use of personal vehicles.
- xnx 3y ago
  A future with all autonomous vehicles is about the best transportation future I can imagine! Go directly point-to-point in private transportation quickly, quietly, safely and efficiently. In a fully-autonomous future, infrastructure needs are dramatically reduced: no parking, fewer lanes of traffic, minimal road surface (could even just be 2 "rails" of pavement for the tires). Fully-autonomous vehicles could also reduce domestic flights dramatically (and all the associated fuel consumption and noise).
- rufus_foreman 3y ago
  >> The only reason anyone needs a service like this is because of the area’s complete failure in urban planning By the criteria I would use, Phoenix is a massive success in urban planning. The criteria I would use would be the willingness of people to move there. In 1950, Phoenix was in the top 100 biggest US cities...barely. It was 99th, with a little over 100,000 people. NYC was the largest, with around 8 million. In 2000, Phoenix was the 6th largest city in the US with 1.3 million people. NYC was the largest, with around 8 million. In 2022, Phoenix was the 5th largest city in the US with 1.6 million people. NYC was the largest, with around 8.5 million. And NYC has been losing population for the last few years. The people who moved to Phoenix didn't have guns to their heads. They moved there because out of all the cities in the US, Phoenix worked best for them. To me that points to an incredible urban planning success. They might have failed at building a city that you like. They might have failed at building a city that was hostile to people who want a single family home with a two car garage. But they didn't fail at building a city that people choose to move to.

kccqzy 3y ago

For those of us not located in areas where Waymo is available, do you mind elaborating on why this is your favorite way to get around? As compared to Uber, Lyft, etc.

ra7 3y ago
I’ve only taken a couple of Waymo rides when I went to Phoenix. I would take them over Uber/Lyft any day, if Waymo offered rides in my city because: * They are very safe and you’re not at the mercy of the Uber/Lyft driver’s driving skills. * Their cars are pretty good (Jaguar I-Pace fleet) and generally very clean. You know what you’re getting every time. * You don’t have to interact with a driver. * No tipping.
austinkhale 3y ago
- The cars are very safe, very conservative drivers - The interiors are nice, well air conditioned and don't smell - You don't have to talk to a person, which I don't always hate but have had some bad experiences. This just removes the roll of the dice from the equation entirely. - They are currently at par or cheaper with Uber/Lyft prices and typically it's faster for the car to arrive - You get to play your own music
- josefx 3y ago
  > You don't have to talk to a person, which I don't always hate but have had some bad experiences. This just removes the roll of the dice from the equation entirely. Given that they are a Google/Alphabet company this seems like a missed opportunity for running ads on loop.
  - xnx 3y ago
    The attention of a captive audience will absolutely be monetized. This could happen any number of ways, but likely that there will be an option (like YouTube) to pay extra for an ad-free experience.
- trgn 3y ago
  > - The cars are very safe, very conservative drivers So great to hear. Seeing videos of self-driving Tesla made me fear for the worst.
  - what_ever 3y ago
    Tbh, you shouldn't compare Tesla "AutoPilot" with these full self driving options.
    - cheonic20058 3y ago
      > Tbh, you shouldn't compare Tesla "AutoPilot" with these full self driving options. Right. Because Tesla FSD “beta” is not guaranteed, even if you pay for the monthly subscription. And even if you did have Tesla FSD beta, it’s a pile of shit. It’s gets worse every quarter as they continue to remove safety sensors from vehicles due to supply chain issues.
      - speedgoose 3y ago
        We haven’t watched the same FSD videos on YouTube lately but ok.
    - speedgoose 3y ago
      The Tesla full self driving private beta is more comparable, but not able to drive by itself for long time.
      - itsoktocry 3y ago
        >The Tesla full self driving private beta is more comparable Have they removed the "you need to be fully aware and ready to grab the wheel" requirements of FSD? If not, how is this comparable? There is no driver.
        speedgoose 3y ago
        I mention that in the second part of the sentence you quote. It's comparable in some ways because the car drives itself most of the time. And apparently is not restricted to some well mapped areas.
- threeseed 3y ago
  > You don't have to talk to a person My partner has been propositioned and harassed over a dozen times by Uber drivers. I think for many this is going to be a killer feature.
  - kypro 3y ago
    Yeah, as a guy I personally quite enjoy interacting with my driver (if I feel like it anyway). But basically every young female I know has been spoken to or treated inappropriately by taxi drivers here in the UK. I think Uber has solved this to some degree with their rating system, but it's still a big problem.
  - drusepth 3y ago
    I think a lot of Lyft's early "we're like Uber, but better for women!" marketing hints that this is a killer feature that will absolutely drive growth. Especially now that Lyft, too, is saturated to the point of equally-risky drivers as Uber was/is.
  - oh_sigh 3y ago
    I feel like once they start rolling out to more and more locales, we will be hit with a spate of news stories like "creepy guy wouldn't let my car drive away by standing in front of it and leering at me"
    - xnx 3y ago
      Another benefit to Waymo vehicles: Full video recording of all road interactions
  - NewMountain 3y ago
    I had an Uber driver in upstate New York who was trying to get me to agree or at least not disagree with the superiority of the white "race". I had another driver in Oakland California who would not relent until I acknowledged God is real and I should be thankful for his love. I felt massive cognitive dissonance afterwards feeling both the requirement to report these drivers but also massive guilt at the non-zero chance I was depriving them of one if not the last potential for work available to them. I decided not to report either but still reflect on whether that was a good choice or not. Edit: to be totally clear: I did not agree in either situation, but tried to gracefully divert or redirect without escalating the situation. I didn't confront as, frankly, I wasn't sure if the person would have responded violently. Uber is valuable, but I have kind of accepted the premise that an Uber drive is just a public transit experience with a customized destination. I should expect some potentially weird and possibly unpleasant interactions as part of the process. I would 100% convert to Waymo only away from Uber just based on those two experiences and dozens if not hundreds of generally positive Uber experiences.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  Adding: - they’re cheap. $5/ride. - they’re fun. It’s a self-driving car! That’s cool! I genuinely had fun every time I was taken around in one.
- arecurrence 3y ago
  Does it prompt for a tip?
  - xnx 3y ago
    No
    - tradertef 3y ago
      That would be a sole reason to use this for me..
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- kpw94 3y ago
  > The interiors are nice, well air conditioned and don't smell If they scale, that will become a problem: - people puking in car - people having sex in car - people eating greasy fries in car These happen in public transportation too (the sex one not as often, but puking, eating smelly/gross food definitely), but the big difference here is that users won't be anonymous. The next waymo rider (or waymo staff if the car stops by some inspection checkpoint between rides, or some extra in-car sensors) will be able to report the incident, which would flag repeating bad riders over time. Overall the experience would be as good as a Uber today, as like you said, no roll of the dice on the driver. Another new problem specific to self driving and not seen for public transportation: muggers driving a high speed bike targeting isolated rides (they'll know how easy it is to make the car stop, smash a window, and get the rider's valuables). Basically the modern version of stagecoach robberies. One could argue these already happens in Europe on highways with traffic jams, but I can see the muggers being more active at night, since in addition to knowing the rider can't try to escape, there's also less crowds around. It'll be very dependants on regions : In Phoenix, I'd assume less often as muggers won't know if the rider is carrying.
  - maccard 3y ago
    > These happen in public transportation too (the sex one not as often, but puking, eating smelly/gross food definitely), Eh, I've used public transport regularly for 10+ years in two countries as a resident and in many, many cities as a visitor, and I can count on one hand the number of incidents I've had where someone has thrown up/left vomit on the bus or train I was on. The greasy/smelly food thing is slightly true, but let's be real, someone eating a McDonald's on a train for 10 minutes out of a 4 hour journey is partially because there's no other choice for food on that train on a long journey. On short distance transit (within the city/region) I genuinely can't remember the last time I had an issue with someone eating on the bus. > Another new problem specific to self driving and not seen for public transportation This is just FUD. If someone stepped out in front of me in a car in my city, I would stop. It's just as likely that two people step in front of me, one smashes my window and grabs my valuables and the other stops me from driving off, as it is that they pinpoint driverless cars.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
stingrae 3y ago
For me in SF using cruise, I find them to be much safer and smoother drivers than Uber/Lyfts. I don't get car sick and I don't have to worry for my safety.

petters 3y ago

Can't believe you post on HN haven't tried them. I've been thinking of a vacation to Phoenix just to try them and I live in Europe :)

dopamean 3y ago

Why did you hate them at first? What about the experience of using the service changed your opinion?

austinkhale 3y ago
> Why did you hate them at first? I walk my dogs twice a day and the cars are constantly driving by with their array of sensors. Made me feel like I was being constantly filmed and recorded... which as I understand them to work I certainly was/am. Outside of that, I resented being involuntarily part of a science experiment that is objectively pretty dangerous all things considered. For example, I would never cross the street when one was coming down the road. I didn't trust them. > What about the experience of using the service changed your opinion? The UX is really incredible. The car handled driving very, very well. Much better/safer than most Uber/Lyft's I've been in. Made me realize how freeing this technology will be for those that don't have the ability to drive. If you don't have a car / don't have the ability to drive in Phoenix, you're going to have a bad time. Walkability here is typically very poor.
- dilap 3y ago
  Yeah, as a skateboarder in SF a few years ago, the driverless cars for testing were already way more predictable and generally chill than the human Uber drivers, who would do all kinds of crazy, erratic things. In an ideal world, we'd have physical separation for peds/bikes/skateboards/etc and motorized vehicles, but if we have to share, I'd much rather share with AI than humans. (That's my pedestrian perspective. As a driver, I love driving and would hate to lose the right. But honestly I think the writing is on the wall, especially in dense urban environments.)
- sgtnoodle 3y ago
  Regarding the risk of stepping out in front of a Waymo vehicle, I personally wouldn't be too concerned about it as long as there's adequate stopping distance to begin with. You're most definitely being picked up by at least a few different sensors, even from hundreds of ft away. If the car is able to correctly categorize you as a pedestrian, it's constantly re-assessing the probability of you stepping into its path based on multiple visual cues, adjusting its behavior accordingly. If the car isn't able to categorize you, it's still seeing you as a large blob that isn't in its static world map, so it's going to aggressively stop out of caution rather than try driving through you. The reliance on a static world map is a very big safety feature in my opinion. I wouldn't be as confident stepping into the path of a Tesla.

conorh 3y ago

I've gone over to Chandler to check them out - was also really impressed, very smooth ride! I'm on the wrong side of I-10 unfortunately for getting regular rides from my house :/

stouset 3y ago

I'll contrast this with Cruise, which are driving autonomously in San Francisco. I hate them. At least in the area I'm in (the Inner Sunset), they often cruise around with no passengers while waiting for a request. While doing so, they circle around idling at 10-15mph, pausing for 30 seconds or more at stop signs. It's long enough where just when you decide they've completely stopped and start to go around, they "wake up" and start moving again. I have personally been held up by four separate Cruise vehicles acting this way within a ten block section of a single trip. It is maddening, and there's no safe or reasonable way to pass them. I am generally quite patient and not particularly affected by road rage, but I'll confess that I have spent significant amounts of time fantasizing about an Office Space printer scene styled destruction of these vehicles. They need to either find places to pull over (ideal) or drive like normal participants in traffic. Their current behavior feels disruptively slow (cars end up backed up behind them) and simultaneously unpredictable and confusing. Worse, in other areas like Fell St., they drive exclusively in the left hand lane while driving 15mph below the flow of traffic. This actually causes significantly extra traffic during busier times as that street is often at or near capacity. It also disrupts the design of that road, which has a "green wave" of lights paced at about 30mph. Dramatically fewer cars make it through any section of road when you have one car driving 20mph that prompts everyone behind it to merge over to the right, further impacting the throughput of other lanes. I've also seen acute instances where they completely fail in situations where humans would cooperate to solve an issue. In one instance, a left-turning Muni bus was unable to complete the turn due to a Cruise vehicle coming from that direction. The Cruise vehicle had entered too far into the intersection before stopping. There's paint on the intersection to indicate that cars need to stop further back, and the Cruise had failed to obey this. The bus was unable to back up due to traffic behind it as well as visibility concerns, and the only real solution was for the Cruise vehicle to move out of the way. There was, however, no way to instruct, plead with, or otherwise convince the Cruise to move. It had no place in particular to be, so it had no reason to decide to do anything other than sit in place with infinite patience and wait for everyone else to resolve the situation on its behalf. I watched as this completely gridlocked a busy intersection for at least five cycles of traffic lights before I got bored and left. I have no idea how they finally unwedged the situation, but I have to imagine it involved the bus driver getting out and having the cars behind clear a space for it to back up and allow the Cruise to complete its prime directive and pass. Will these things get better? Sure. But right now, they are inexcusably bad drivers.

icey 3y ago

Same here (downtown Phoenix area) -- the driverless Waymos have been awesome. Occasionally they get confused but it seems pretty rare. They're better than a lot of the other drivers on the road out here. I'm mostly excited that they upped the allowed passenger count from 3 to 4. Usually we take a car if we're going out to dinner with friends but the 3 passenger limit made taking one of these a pain in the ass or impossible.

drusepth 3y ago
Does the fourth passenger sit in the "driver's" seat, or is it a three-packed-in-the-back kind of situation? Never seen a self-driving-car in person, but I assume it's the standard 4-seater sedan layout, right?
- rwmj 3y ago
  I wonder if there's some regulation behind why they haven't got rid of the traditional front-facing layout entirely and replaced it with train carriage style seats around a table?
  - HyperSane 3y ago
    That would be a very expensive modification to make on all their cars.
  - windowsrookie 3y ago
    These cars still have to meet all federal crash safety standards. Modifying the seating position would also require modifying the airbags, seat belts, seat belt pre-tensioners, etc. Then the vehicle would have to be crash tested again to ensure it is safe for the passengers.
- ilaksh 3y ago
  They are vans.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago

ajcp 3y ago

I live downtown PHX (Roosevelt Row) and beyond riding in them I MUCH prefer them driving around on the streets than actual human drivers. There isn't a day goes by that I don't see drivers make up 4-way stops, disregard the 4-way stops, flip a youey in the middle of an intersection, etc. Contrast that to the ever predictable Weymo, just quietly going about their little self-driving existence. Only problem I've seen with them is people don't realize that just because you wave them through doesn't mean they will proceed. If a Waymo sees a human on the corner that looks like they will cross it will stop and wait until the heat-death of the universe for them to cross.

George83728 3y ago
> If a Waymo sees a human on the corner that looks like they will cross it will stop and wait until the heat-death of the universe for them to cross. I've had humans do this, when I had no intention of crossing the street because I was just standing at the corner waiting to meet somebody. At least the humans give up after a few seconds, with exacerbated expressions like I'm the one who did something wrong. It would be pretty funny to see a robot car sit there for minutes.
- sokka_h2otribe 3y ago
  I do this all the time as a walker too! But I try to step away from the curb and signal clear dis-intent. That's bc when I'm driving the neccesary bias is to assume that all pedestrians could be erratic and go into the street at anytime. It's neccesary because even if it's only 10% you can't accept any errors. In other words, I'm trying to politely set the groundwork to say I think you are wrong if we assume having pedestrians signal clear dis-intent to cross is a reasonable requirement. Of course, the drivers are also wrong to be exasperated with you so I do think in a sense both parties are wrong :D.)
  - George83728 3y ago
    The times it's happened to me, I was leaning up against a lamp post or telephone pole. Most drivers don't get confused, but some of the time somebody does. If I actually intend to cross, I stand up straight and attentive on the curb.

dangus 3y ago

A hopefully not-too-annoying reminder that this isn’t a future that is sustainable or desirable to live in compared with alternatives. It’s really just better than the automotive hellscape you are used to. Phoenix is one of the most car-centric places to live in the country. The only reason anyone needs a service like this is because of the area’s complete failure in urban planning. Car-focused infrastructure is incredibly expensive per capita compared to alternatives that prioritizing walking, cycling, and public transit. It maximizes the amount of public utilities (roads, sewers, etc) needed to serve one family. One pair of train tracks can serve more human commuters than a 12-lane highway. One bus can replace 30-40 cars, and neither option needs fancy automation to be more cost and carbon efficient than a robotaxi. Waymo might band-aid the transit situation where you live but it’s doing nothing to address the fundamental problems with large urban areas that require the use of personal vehicles.

xnx 3y ago
A future with all autonomous vehicles is about the best transportation future I can imagine! Go directly point-to-point in private transportation quickly, quietly, safely and efficiently. In a fully-autonomous future, infrastructure needs are dramatically reduced: no parking, fewer lanes of traffic, minimal road surface (could even just be 2 "rails" of pavement for the tires). Fully-autonomous vehicles could also reduce domestic flights dramatically (and all the associated fuel consumption and noise).
rufus_foreman 3y ago
>> The only reason anyone needs a service like this is because of the area’s complete failure in urban planning By the criteria I would use, Phoenix is a massive success in urban planning. The criteria I would use would be the willingness of people to move there. In 1950, Phoenix was in the top 100 biggest US cities...barely. It was 99th, with a little over 100,000 people. NYC was the largest, with around 8 million. In 2000, Phoenix was the 6th largest city in the US with 1.3 million people. NYC was the largest, with around 8 million. In 2022, Phoenix was the 5th largest city in the US with 1.6 million people. NYC was the largest, with around 8.5 million. And NYC has been losing population for the last few years. The people who moved to Phoenix didn't have guns to their heads. They moved there because out of all the cities in the US, Phoenix worked best for them. To me that points to an incredible urban planning success. They might have failed at building a city that you like. They might have failed at building a city that was hostile to people who want a single family home with a two car garage. But they didn't fail at building a city that people choose to move to.