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I’ve been single all my life

• all2 3y ago
  Archive link for those who are having issues getting the article to load: https://web.archive.org/web/20230410132952/https://lukasrosenstock.net/2023/04/10/im-single-i.html https://web.archive.org/web/20230410132952/https://lukasrose... --- [edit for commentary] I was like the author, except I have had a burning desire to have family and children since I was a boy. I started thinking about fatherhood when I was maybe 12. After a failed long term relationship, and three or four girlfriends I finally settled with the fact that my drive to fulfill this desire overrides pretty much any degree of pain or dissatisfaction from prior relationships. I've prayed plenty of times to have this desire taken from me because it screwed with my head to be single. As if this one thing was a gateway to the rest of my life. I know that's not fundamentally true, and I haven't put my life on hold just because I lack a romantic relationship. I generally advise even hesitant men to "go for it" because they won't make any progress towards a goal if they don't get over themselves and try. To the guys who have tried and failed, I say "take damage, keep moving". There are whole groups of men on the other side of failed relationships that are utter poison to everyone around them. If anyone needs a cheerleader or someone to keep them accountable, let me know.
  • bradfitz 3y ago
    The origin webserver might also be single... threaded.
    • LastTrain 3y ago
      It is a shame how few people will get to see this joke
      • deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    • awacs 3y ago
      As we all get older we tend to scale horizontally, which is also a problem.
      • deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    • natas 3y ago
      haha
    • sva_ 3y ago
      A single thread on a not-ancient system should have no problem serving the amount of requests this page is probably facing, given efficient code.
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
• natas 3y ago
  https://web.archive.org/web/20230410132952/https://lukasrosenstock.net/2023/04/10/im-single-i.html https://web.archive.org/web/20230410132952/https://lukasrose...
• Invictus0 3y ago
  People that choose to live primarily in the world of logic and reason sometimes forget to nurture their emotions and feelings, and that side of them can atrophy. I suspect this guy has hidden and suppressed his desires due to some fears about relationships.
  • passion__desire 3y ago
    Or maybe he doesn't see emotions just as Aphantasia people don't see images in the mind. As Temple Grandin would say, "The world needs all kinds of minds."
• jakeva 3y ago
  I haven't been single all my life, but the relationships I have had have taught me things that makes it easier to be single. I remember the good times fondly, but the bad times remind me why being single isn't so bad.
  • april23 3y ago
    [flagged]
  • hammyhavoc 3y ago
    How many years has it been since your last bad experience? Because I used to relate to this sentiment, but with time (a decade), it all disappears, and whilst not on speaking terms, all is forgiven from my end. People talk about "personal growth", and whilst I wrote it off as hogwash, actually, no, letting go of the past is a huge part of that. It can be done.
    • jakeva 3y ago
      The big one was about 10 years ago and I agree with you about letting go of the past. I'm no longer angry or bitter. I got into another serious relationship a few years ago and it didn't end well either but not as bad. I found myself not as affected by it. Both taught me a lot. Where I am now I'm happy to be single, I can do what I want. Nobody to argue with or plan my weekend for me. I'm open to another relationship in the future but I'm not really looking for one and I see things in potential relationships differently and with more skepticism.
  • carbine 3y ago
    I'm a woman and have had long serious relationships and long-ish stretches of being single. Took me a while to filter through all the social pressure BS and realize that, on balance, I have been way (WAY) happier single. Maybe this could change one day? But right now I have no interest in changing it. It'd take someone extraordinary. I'm not 'poly' or 'asexual' or any of that crap, I've just had to give up so much of my time and energy for relationships that ultimately left me worse off in every way. By contrast, on my own I can do what I want with my time and energy, and I'm surrounded by wonderful friends and family. If we put less social pressure on people to pair bond, some non-zero percentage of the population would be genuinely happier.
• SoftAnnaLee 3y ago
  The OP reminds me of some of the aromantic and asexual folk I've known. Not necessarily prescribing any label on his account. Just merely a thought based on a particular line is one I've heard a number times; > my general reply is the combination of a lack of opportunities and a lack of desire That said, I am very interested in hearing him extrapolate his thoughts further. I do use the aromantic and asexual label myself (in particular the gray aroace label), though I always find the little nuances in how different people express themselves incredibly fascinating.
  • kayodelycaon 3y ago
    This might get a little weird... but I think some people might be interested in my perspective on intimacy and relationships. I'm asexual, but not aromantic (or adverse to sex). "Relationships" aren't high on my priority list. All of my friendships are platonic and I'm quite happy with that. Where it gets weird for people is several of them are emotionally intimate and physically tactile. For men in the US, touch is wrapped up in sex and relationships. The idea of cuddling with someone else without any sexual relationship is strange. It's one of the reasons I'm drawn to the furry fandom. For the most part, furries know some people have a need for touch without a need relationships or sex and don't consider it weird. (Whether or not a given furry will respect that boundary that is a very different thing.) If it's hard to imagine what this is, think of how a dog or cat curls up on your lap. That's basically how I feel about physical closeness. It has nothing to do with the deep of my friendship and everything to do with how my friend feels about it. So... relationships. All of my emotional needs are fulfilled by my friends. Living with someone else seems like too much effort for not enough reward. I don't need sex... I have people I can touch... I have people I can call if I need help... If housework or rent was an issue, I could get a roommate. What's left? :)
    • Gigachad 3y ago
      The furry fandom is honestly the easiest way to meet people imo. I recently moved city and the first thing I did is locate the local group and see what the events are. See there is a weekly bar meet so I show up and everyone immediately treats you like a long time friend. People are pretty respectful of your boundaries but you can almost use it like a dating scene if you want. So much better than apps.
• bravoetch 3y ago
  [flagged]
• schizo89 3y ago
  There is something fundamentally wrong with this world, obviously. I'm standing the same stance for lat 8 years.
  • zokier 3y ago
    [flagged]
  • throwbadubadu 3y ago
    Agreed, there is a lot wrong with this world ;) But what do you mean or how relating to the article? That you are in that stance? Or expectations of others? Please explain.
    • schizo89 3y ago
      I have experienced a major schizophrenia for 5 years starting in 2015 and since that I never attempted dating or having interpersonal relationships. Now it's a part of my personality. I won't go in detail though. I don't feel any negative emotions or have any thoughts about that as I'm using antidepressants to shut down the libido. After some biohacking I feel a competitive advantage in social realm and view this as a gift. There's non-compete for women, no social racing for status, and it all boils down to fundamental values. That's super christian catholic way of life, and I'm fine with it now. What I was expecting initially is that someone will check on me, but that never happened.
  • input_sh 3y ago
    [flagged]
• gtop3 3y ago
  Bella DePaulo is probably the leading scholar on the social prejudice and discrimination on single individuals. The fact that the author of the article introduces the term "incel" to deal with this extremely negative stereotype in the second paragraph highlights this prejudice. If you're interested in learning more about the ways single individuals are treated unfairly in society, Dr. DePaulo has many articles and books published on the topic.
  • amin 3y ago
    Any chance you could summarize the prejudice single people experience? I believe you, but it coul save hundreds of people from googling it individually.
    • gtop3 3y ago
      I am many years behind the literature/research and do not personally feel qualified to write a short summary on this specific academic's work.
    • inconceivable 3y ago
      married people are given unofficial/unspoken priority for promotions at a lot of workplaces. there's a lot of reasons for this, not all of them positive for the employee.
  • chewz 3y ago
    What no one ever told you about people who are single | Bella DePaulo | TEDx https://youtu.be/lyZysfafOAs https://youtu.be/lyZysfafOAs https://www.belladepaulo.com/ https://www.belladepaulo.com/
• Traubenfuchs 3y ago
  As an unhappy single with two past relationships, lots of experience in many crazy things including most drugs, let me tell you that times where you truly love someone while knowing they truly love you back, in other words true mutual love, are probably the most beautiful times in the world one can experience: Holding someone in your arms wishing you‘d die right then and there because you know you have peaked in non-drug-induced happiness. And nothing is worse than the fear of never experiencing it ever again. It took 6 years of active searching to find my first love and 3 for the second. Those despair inducing time frames and the acquired knowledge about how hard it really is to nurture and maintain relationships beyond the love, as a hypersensitive loner on the spectrum with mental illness makes me despair.
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  • mettamage 3y ago
    If you don't mind me asking, how did you search actively? Why didn't it work out? I've also searched actively. It didn't work out in my case as well. Relationships are hard.
    • Traubenfuchs 3y ago
      I am a 30 year old gay man living in a city of 2 million. By now, to some degree at least, I personally know every single gay man that passes my requirements regarding socioeconomic status, personality and physical attractivity. It didn‘t work out because they didn‘t want me, I didn‘t want them or chatting with them was so uninspiring, we didn‘t even meet. But to answer your question more concretely, generally it didn‘t work out because my lack of physical attraction or the lack of the spark, the click, the compatibility in conversation. I have literally played through the video games called Tinder and Grindr. I was on OkCupid and I had phases where I went out a lot. The only chances I have are men leaving long term relationships or men that move here. Though dating anyone whose native language isn‘t German is frustrating to me, because others fluency and eloquence in English is usually even more limited than mine. Desiring someone with abs and a penis that doesn‘t turn me off in the upper 20% income bracket, who is much more bottom than top, doesn‘t need my help to get stuff from shelves and has a sharp mind leaves me very little choice to begin with. The one and only realistic thing to increase my chances would be to move to Switzerland or Germany, where I would get a whole new dating pool. My difficult standards are out of my control and I really tried! My second partner was a great man, totally "marriage material", but his reluctance to turn his pear shaped dough body into a more chiseled form while at the same time enjoying my pornstar body ultimately made me resent him to the point where I ended things. I am either physically turned on by someone or not and loving them or not has absolutely nothing to do with it.
• GalenErso 3y ago
  You're not alone (pun intended). Record numbers of Americans, men and women alike, are single. > Nearly 118 million Americans, or about 46% of those over 18 years old, are single, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. But that percent is actually much higher for women—a record-breaking 52% of them are unmarried or separated as of 2021, according to a recent report from Wells Fargo Economics. https://fortune.com/2023/03/18/record-number-american-women-single-costs/ https://fortune.com/2023/03/18/record-number-american-women-...
  • ryanwaggoner 3y ago
    Does that article use “single” to mean someone who isn’t married? Because that leaves out a lot of partnered people. Pew reports 31% of Americans are unpartnered, and of those, half are looking and half aren’t: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profile-of-single-americans/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profi...
    • GalenErso 3y ago
      An equal share of men and women are single (31%), but among 18-29 year olds, 51% of men are single, while only 32% of women are. What gives? People don't necessarily partner with people in their age group (e.g. a 27 yo woman partnered with a 31 yo man), but that's not enough to explain the gap, is it?
      • nicoburns 3y ago
        Could be women in that age group dating outside of that age group? And/or more lesbians in couples than gay men?
      • baking 3y ago
        Over a 12-year age cohort, 19% more men are single. That could be explained by women in relationships being 2.28 years younger on average. Seems about right to me. Of course, older women are more likely to be single (widowed, divorced, or separated) but many of those are in same-sex relationships which are becoming more common.
• nvarsj 3y ago
  I guess I've been a "volcel" for almost 4 years now after an almost 20 year relationship. I have pretty mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, I get lonely, intensely lonely at times. And I miss the companionship I had (before it got awful.) On the other hand, I have so much time now to just focus on myself and my kids and my career and hobbies and my mental well being. I've increased my income a lot in the last year and re-sparked hobbies from my youth. But frankly, I am miserable. I don't know if meeting someone else would solve it, or whether it would just be me escaping (again) from my own demons. Being alone is one of the toughest things I've experienced. You're forced to be with yourself, all the time! There is no escape, where you can go hug or chat with your significant other. If you don't like yourself, or you have some underlying issues, you have to face it head on - and it's brutal. I'm trying to be comfortable, even happy, on my own. But it's a slow, grueling process of self awareness and conscious self care. Dating seems dire these days as well. Tech is a terrible industry for meeting someone. And online dating, which I've tried a few times, I found incredibly tiring and frustrating. I feel like there is a rise of apathy towards dating and relationships in general. I know many people who are single and sick of it all. It's all kind of depressing and I don't have an answer.
  • hammyhavoc 3y ago
    Working on yourself will lead you where you want to go. Wishing you health, happiness and peace, and the same for anybody else reading this.
    • hexo 3y ago
      "Working on yourself will lead you where you want to go" sorry, but this is one of the worst lies ever.
      • IndigoIncognito 3y ago
        Given that this guy has the ability to obtain a partner in the first place, it probably will for him
      • kelipso 3y ago
• teelelbrit 3y ago
  I'm in my late 20s and honestly its just sort of hard to care about this anymore. I fully acknowledge I'm not attractive and generally weird people out. I'm over it. That said, since I'm very interested in keeping my health in good shape I'm not interested in anyone who isn't at the very least in half decent shape or doesn't have some kind of baseline college education. Fortunately, I've still been able to date about ten people in my twenties and I've learned from each relationship but nothing has necessarily been "long term". Fortunately, in these cases I didn't really compromise standards and enjoyed my time dating. To be frank, I have no idea how people who constantly have girlfriends do it? My best guess is they have way more energy to socialize or are just way more attractive than I am.
• kube-system 3y ago
  > The obvious course of action when you are unsure about something is experimentation. However, a relationship isn’t an activity (like a job, hobby, or sport) to try and quit when you don’t like it. It requires two people, and you must find a second person willing to try. Finding someone is hard, though. This brings me back to what I said a few paragraphs ago; I don’t see myself ready to invest much in something I’m not even sure I want. Also, if it doesn’t work out, I’m scared of leaving a broken heart in another person. It doesn't have to be this way to start out. A relationship can be something that happens as a result of a friendship. It doesn't have to be an expectation from the moment you first meet someone. Take things slow, and you'll have a minimum amount of investment and a minimum risk of broken hearts. Don't think of it as "starting a relationship", think of it as "meeting new people". A relationship isn't something you choose, it's something that sometimes happens if the right circumstances align. If it is the right thing for you, the time and emotional investment will come naturally.
  • majormajor 3y ago
    Even if you take the "starting a relationship" path (e.g. online dating to meet people) you really shouldn't be afraid of breaking someone else's heart. Assuming you don't break someone's heart by betraying them or some other awful action, taking responsibility for a broken heart is putting way too much responsibility on yourself, and not respecting other people's agency. It's also going to probably sabotage your attempts to learn-by-experimentation in relationships. Most likely the person on the other side of the relationship isn't going to know where it's going from day 1, it could be love, it could be something less but still fun, it could just be one or two dates. None of those are necessarily bad outcomes, but if you're weighing yourself down with all that pressure, you're going to make it harder for yourself to be open and honest and have fun. You have some catching up to do - others may have learned some basic relationship skills in school, say, where the stakes were obviously lower and few people were getting married or anything anyway - but IME step one on getting that practice in is to take away that pressure and take it easy. One good thing to help with that, I think, is not to be too picky - if you haven't dated much, you probably don't know what your "perfect match" is like, so go out there and find out, versus waiting for one person who you build up so much in your mind you sabotage yourself with the anxiety of screwing it up.
• CoolioMqSo 3y ago
  I felt like I had to say this FYI This guy isn't ugly, actually average looking 30yr old white guy, isn't short, is socially active. I honestly have no idea why this guy is still a virgin, im pretty sure he could find someone on a dating app if he got in shape.
  • jjtheblunt 3y ago
    he might have watched parents bicker endlessly and have internalized a "no thanks" sort of skepticism?
  • mr_mitm 3y ago
    Maybe he has psychological issues. For example, people with schizoid personality disorder tend to be single because they have trouble connecting with people.
    • IndigoIncognito 3y ago
      Thats what I was thinking, I really doubt it, he seems like a really nice guy and he speaks/ posts online in a "neurotypical" manner, however neurotypical people usually don't talk about their virginity on a blogpost lol Still baffled that he is a virgin, especially at his age, maybe someone in a relationship can give him advice, he has a twitter
  • all2 3y ago
    Low drive to mate could be because his T is low. I wonder if he's had his hormones checked.
    • TobyTheDog123 3y ago
      You're getting downvoted, but I'm not entirely sure why. It's not some toxic Andrew-Tate-esque take to consider low testosterone as a possibility for the lack of drive the author mentions. Personally, I plan on doing it soon, there's no harm in it.
      • 3y ago
• jamesgill 3y ago
  There's no algorithm for relationships, or entering one, or leaving one. It's a series of choices and actions with unpredictable results. This makes some people so uncomfortable that they blame a mythological algorithm ('oh, haven't had any opportunities', 'oh, I just don't want to settle') instead of just making choices and taking actions. This is why dating apps are popular, because they promote the idea that relationships can be reduced to algorithms of trait selection and numeric increase in 'opportunities'.
• nivenkos 3y ago
  He doesn't say how old he is though, in your 20s this isn't so uncommon at all.
• baking 3y ago
  I was happily single until my mid-thirties and wasn't even really looking for a relationship. I realize now that getting married probably saved my life. Married men life much longer than single men because they have someone to tell them to go to the doctor. So yeah, stay single if you want, but get a good doctor and don't skip the annual physicals.
  • nly 3y ago
    Ironic because people here in the UK don't have "annual physicals". There is no routine preventative medicine on the NHS.
    • oliyoung 3y ago
      There's nothing stopping you from scheduling your own (said as a 43 year old who has one every January)
    • SoftTalker 3y ago
      Yeah it's a pretty US centric thing. People here run to the doctor for every little thing and then complain about the price of healthcare and how it's so hard to get in to see a doctor.
• aschearer 3y ago
  First off, bravo for sharing. Much respect. That said, this is borderline navel gazing. Stop thinking about "what it's like to go swimming" and jump in the lake. Yes, you'll get wet, look stupid, and make a mess. There's no way around that. The sooner the better. If you need to reason yourself into the water, I recommend "The Village Effect." Statistically, humans fair better with a rich tapestry of relationships. Are you ready to bet your life on being the exception? Move over, Pascal. More pointedly, can you really say you've examined life and lived it fully if you've never shared it intimately with another person? Can someone say they understand the world if they've never left their home? Do you want to be that person?
  • MuffinFlavored 3y ago
    > yes you’ll look stupid i wouldn’t under estimate how crippling of a fear this is. you wouldn’t tell a depressed person “cheer up!”
    • JCharante 3y ago
      depression and shyness are not the same, get drunk and go act stupid like everybody else
      • throwshame 3y ago
        I'm over 30. 2 years ago I was drunk, on coke and had a girl naked in front of me saying "Fuck me" and I still managed to botch it. This only happened once I normally manage to run as soon as I sense that a girl may be interested in me. It's not easy for some people.
        • bionsystem 3y ago
          I've been in some analog situations. Heck, even recently a woman whom I've known from work a few years back emailed me with some nice words, a will to reconnect and her number, and I haven't even replied to her. On another hand, I feel a bit like the blog post, in that I'm not extra motivated into trying this, maybe also a bit worried to break somebody's heart (this includes, potentially, mine), or to be stuck in a situation I don't really like for too long. If I think through that deeply I'm not sure I even find that much upside. Anyway I really like his wording, it speaks to me quite a bit.
• BubbleRings 3y ago
  Great post. And brave. One thing I believe strongly now, (although I did not always), is that we all very much have the right to be our most charming selves, and ask out people that catch our interest, but then gently let them down gently at any time after 1, 2, or even 10 dates, with no reason needed to be given for why you are breaking up. And if the other person sends the signal of "you are so unkind, for making me like you so much/love you, and then leaving me", you can reject that message; it's not fair or valid. I hear you when you say you don't want to break anybody's heart. But you have the right to. And sometimes we do it, even though we don't mean to. And sometimes it is the right thing to do.
  • rektide 3y ago
    The vast majority of relationships don't work. That is absolutely not a good reason not to play. It hurts but folks should be ante-ing anyways. And one of the only ways to make better experiences is with practice & experience. Don't deny that XP gain.
• mmcgaha 3y ago
  I am recently divorced and I don't see myself ever in another relationship. I would consider a partner where we live in different homes and don't share any expenses or responsibilities but I doubt any woman would accept that as a permanent arrangement.
  • carbine 3y ago
    don't be too quick to assume, i'm a woman and that sounds great ha
  • shaftoe 3y ago
    This resonates with me and I'm in a similar stage. I'd like something between hooking up with a stranger and recreating my life (again) around a new person. It's hard to do that once you're older and I'm actively avoiding being financially intertwined with another person. Besides having a lot to lose, I also question if I'm desired because of what I can financially bring to the table and as a labor source. Maybe I'm cynical, but this seems to be the calculus of a lot of single parents. I'm not looking to be the solution to someone else's life problems.
  • readthenotes1 3y ago
    women do, from my experience. if raising kids isn't a factor, I bet many couples would be happier living on both sides of a duplex.
  • epups 3y ago
    That's pretty much what having a boyfriend or girlfriend sounds like. Many people do it without even living in the same city. I don't get what would be controversial about it, perhaps the expectation that it has to evolve to something different?
    • shaftoe 3y ago
      Correct. Many people have an expectation that boyfriend/girlfriend status is essentially a trial period for marriage. If it's not "going anywhere" it's a waste of time. As people age, if they have this perspective, they tend to become significantly less patient.
• 3m 3y ago
  >Also, if it doesn’t work out, I’m scared of leaving a broken heart in another person. This is a telling statement. It really highlights his inexperience and immaturity with regards to relationships (not that this is in doubt - it is after all the subject of his post). Being the cause of, and the sufferer of a "broken heart" is a formative experience. There's nothing like healing a broken heart to teach you that actually things get better, and it wasn't right anyway. There's nothing like the fear of hurting someone else that will trap you in an unhealthy or unfulfilling relationship for far longer than it should have. When you finally summon the courage to end it, knowing it will hurt someone else - you immediately feel the freedom, and the other person's journey to healing begins too. I find it hard to understand people who make a mountain out of dating. It's a numbers game, and there's a gazillion ways to meet people.
  • throwntoday 3y ago
    > It's a numbers game I think to enter into a relationship knowing there will be an expiration date speaks more to your character. Almost sounds like "I'm with them unless something better comes along or their shortcomings become more than I want to deal with". If you genuinely love someone, you will stand by them, work on any problems, and remember that you chose to build a future together. Given that the divorce rate in my community is less than 1% we're probably doing something right.
    • icepat 3y ago
      > to enter into a relationship knowing there will be an expiration date speaks more to your character The comment you are replying to never said, or insinuated this.
      • throwntoday 3y ago
        Yes it did. The assertion was that the more people you date the higher your odds of success, when the reality is totally the opposite. People who date less have a higher success rate in marriage.
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• sergiomattei 3y ago
  I’m on the opposite side of the spectrum. I’m 23 and have experienced a solid number of partners and committed relationships. After my last long-term relationship however, I realized how much time and energy these commitments take. I’ve noticed that after a while, I tend to lose myself in long term R’s, and I hate the feeling. This ends my relationships. It starts out fine, with healthy and strong boundaries with regards to personal time and energy. Over time, the compromises eat away at me, and I find myself with very little time for my own pursuits and personal growth. It’s odd too, because I’m quite aware of my boundaries and strong with them. Something about relationships or my partners slowly erodes them. Near the end, I feel so suffocated that I’m usually becoming distant and breaking things off. Singlehood is liberating, but I hate that I love my partners and I can’t figure out a way to stop repeating this harmful pattern. It’s either something wrong with me, or something wrong with how I pick my partners. Has anyone faced this?
  • all2 3y ago
    > Something about relationships or my partners slowly erodes them. Simply put: fear of losing access to sex will make many men compromise a lot. There are other things that can contribute to this, such as "wanting her to be happy" being conflated with "she will only be happy if she gets her way". I recommend you read No More Mr. Nice Guy and see if it rings any bells for you. A strong commitment to boundaries doesn't do a lot for you if you capitulate every time.
    • sergiomattei 3y ago
      I’ve read that book and found it very helpful. As for the reasoning behind my actions, I often feel it’s not only about sex, but a deeper need to avoid confrontation and keep a relative peace in the relationship. In one of my last relationships, part of the problem was a constant war over my personal boundaries. My partner was requiring too much of my attention and energy, pushing things, moving fast at every turn. This eventually eroded the lines I set. This situation is something I need to keep an eye out for future relationships!
  • em-bee 3y ago
    i haven't made this experience as strongly as i was able to find time for my own things in my work (being selfemployed at times and having a partner that had a well paid job too which lessened the pressure on me to focus on income helped) but what i realized is important is support from my partner for my interests and goals (and of course i should equally support my partners goals) without that support, compromises meant that i would have to give up my goals in favor of a happy relationship. and maybe this is what you are experiencing. find a partner that actually supports your goals and interests (that doesn't mean that they need to have the same goals and interests, but only that they should not be conflicting, as well as they should have goals you are willing to support)
• vacuumcl 3y ago
  The author says, "I can’t even say whether I’m voluntarily or involuntarily single," and I think this is telling. When you're dealing with anxiety and overthinking, it's easy to lose touch with your feelings and become unsure of why you do things the way you do. I know that's how it's been for me to some extent. You've got to push past it, though, and take the plunge to ask people out even if they might reject you or even if it might break some social norms. I just got out of a long-term relationship and am also approaching my thirties. When I met her, she was my housemate during university years. My other housemates and friends said it would be inappropriate to make a move, but I went for it anyway, and it gave me 9 years of happiness.
  • WaffleIronMaker 3y ago
    I don't think the author indicates that they're feeling anxiety at all. Overall, they seem to indicate happiness and content in singleness, and even give themselves a call-to-action at the end of the piece: > Why am I writing about this deeply personal subject? The clock is ticking, and figuring myself out and finding a partner won’t get easier as I get older. By talking about these things in public, I want to make myself accountable for taking these personal matters more seriously. As a friend told me recently, I should “whole-ass” it, not “half-ass” it, if I want to progress. I hope to figure some things out, and I want to document my thoughts here. This is a good starting point to show where I’m coming from if I get involved in the online dating discourse. In fact, I can relate to this feeling of realizing that I'm never going to have a "meet-cute" moment, and that I need to intentionally seek out relationships. Especially given remote work, on the average day, I will speak to 0 people who I don't work with. That doesn't leave a lot of room for starting relationships.
• aidenn0 3y ago
  TFA mentions, and I've encountered this in friends as well: fear of hurting others as a very common reason for not dating. My only advice is "You are guaranteed to hurt someone you get into a relationship with; them entering into a relationship with you means they think it is worth it." That doesn't mean there aren't wrong ways to go about relationships (abusers keep people in unhealthy relationships with a combination of manipulation and picking their victims well), but if you're legit hesitant to date someone because you are worried about hurting them, then that's probably not you.
• scohesc 3y ago
  I've been single all my life as well, heading into my 30's and it's getting to the point where I feel like the crippling loneliness is absolutely killing me on the inside, likely going to lead me to an early death. Trying not to seem "needy" or come off as desperate is hard and is definitely a turn-off. I avoided social situations all my life because I was (and still am) afraid of rejection. I minimized the amount of time I socialized with people because I felt inherently different, that I didn't belong, that somehow my presence was offensive/offending to people - likely due to the constant emotional manipulation and abuse from both my parents growing up. After going to therapy for almost a decade and finally getting the courage to leave my abusive family, I feel like the "social" parts of my brain that should have developed years ago have now atrophied/cemented themselves into place, unable to experience the emotions, unable to mentally process social cues and understand the "hidden meaning" the things people say. I don't feel like the label "incel" or "volcel" applies to me, I feel like I'm stuck in this persistent state of limbo where I know I could might be in a relationship if I tried, but why bother if it's likely just going to end up in regret/rejection/heartbreak/etc? The pros/cons don't seem to weigh out - but then again, how would I know if I've never been in a relationship? Doesn't help that I feel like I'm scared of women for some reason either. I'm incredibly embarrassed to admit I've never been on a date of any kind or talked with women my age in any capacity other than small talk. It kills me inside every day I look at myself and scream internally at why and how I feel so broken socially and mentally. Doesn't help now that the hairline's receding. I know this doesn't really relate to the authors' article at all, just looking to see if anybody else feels this way or have felt this way. I think people in the tech industry can relate to it more considering I'm sure a lot of people here have been glued to their computers like I have for long periods of their lives. Online dating doesn't make things easier either...
  • all2 3y ago
    > I avoided social situations all my life because I was (and still am) afraid of rejection. You've acknowledged this is a problem. What are you going to do to fix it? > I feel like the "social" parts of my brain that should have developed years ago have now atrophied/cemented themselves into place, unable to experience the emotions, unable to mentally process social cues and understand the "hidden meaning" the things people say. Fortunately for you, your feeling is incorrect. Those parts of your brain may be underdeveloped, but the brain is plastic and can be changed. > but why bother if it's likely just going to end up in regret/rejection/heartbreak/etc? The pros/cons don't seem to weigh out - but then again, how would I know if I've never been in a relationship? If you don't try, you'll never go anywhere. Have the courage to get hurt. If you get hurt, keep moving. > I'm incredibly embarrassed to admit I've never been on a date of any kind Don't sweat it. Many men are in this same position. > It kills me inside every day I look at myself and scream internally at why and how I feel so broken socially and mentally. So what are you going to do about it? > Doesn't help now that the hairline's receding. Take a look at the work of Derek from More Plates, More Dates. He had a receding hairline as well, and managed to reverse it with a combination of select shampoos, microneedling, and some other things. > just looking to see if anybody else feels this way or have felt this way Yes. I looked in the mirror for many years and hated what I saw. I still feel that way sometimes. There are many just like us.
• prirun 3y ago
  I've been single for all but 5 years of my adult (>20) life. After my 5-year relationship ended, I tried the dating scene for 2-3 years, but it's a lot of work for a gay introvert, and I decided that the effort-to-reward was not worth it for me personally and haven't dated for a long time. Am I completely happy with this? No. But I don't know any couples who are completely happy either. For me, it's like 2 sides of the same coin: I'm happy most of the time, unhappy sometimes. And I think it would be the same if I was in a relationship. A big difference is, if I notice I'm unhappy, usually lonesome, it's easy to fix by getting involved in some activity with friends, family or just by myself, like taking a walk outside. But when I was in a relationship, being unhappy, usually because of some relationship issue, was more like misery. And because this other person is part of the unhappiness, it's very difficult/impossible to solve on my own. We were living together, so it's not easy to ignore the issue: it's in your face all the time. Another way I look at it is having a life with highs and lows vs a life that's more "even", without a lot of ups and downs. To some people, a life without highs and lows may be boring. Or, it can be viewed as basically content. I do think there's a big difference between never having had a relationship of any kind, and having had one and deciding it's not your thing. Before I was in a relationship, I felt like an alien: everyone around me was dating or in a relationship and I had no idea what that was like. It made me feel defective and isolated from everyone, and I'm not sure that would have gotten better with time. So I'm glad I did get to experience love in a relationship, but as we were both pretty miserable by the end of it, I'm not sorry it ended. We are still friends and still talk/text occasionally.
• seedead99 3y ago
  I do think it can be especially hard in this industry, being male-dominated, with less social interaction, and not masculine in any traditional sense. I think of careers as containers, or vases, that we eventually grow to fit. Some vases are particularly odd-shaped and hard for potential partners to evaluate.
• hombre_fatal 3y ago
  I'd wonder how many women this guy (and guys who relate to this post) are incidentally meeting every week. When I was in my mid 20s after uni, it was basically zero. Just women at work, if even that. If so, this is basically the result you can expect and nothing is going to change until you get those numbers up. The common thread I see with guys not meeting women is almost never "I meet a lot of women but they never like me". It almost always cashes out into "oh yeah, I don't really meet women anyways." Yet they'll carry around this whole constellation of self-limiting beliefs as if they were living the former scenario.
  • ZephyrBlu 3y ago
    100%. Exposure is almost always the problem.
    • tennisflyi 3y ago
      Yes and it’s expensive money and time wise. All day at work. Almost all money to bills. Repeat.
      • hexo 3y ago
        That is waste.
  • numbers_guy 3y ago
    He lives in Germany too, where it takes way more effort to turn an incidental encounter into something more. And I agree with you. I think, for a lot of these guys, if you literally never ever get a good chance, then of course that you go into "monk mode". I only fell in love the first time at 22, because I met a girl who I found amazing. The second time at 28, again because I very randomly met a girl who was amazing.
    • mattrighetti 3y ago
      > He lives in Germany too, where it takes way more effort to turn an incidental encounter into something more. This is a classic, I've heard people say stuff like this in basically every country that I visited. I don't think it is something that can be measured, it's just something super subjective and a bit of a stereotype. From my experience, I've noticed that typically individuals will say this of people with their same nationality (or from their own country in general). The same individuals will then argue that "Oh, I've been in country X and girls/boys are way easier to date" but I don't think that is related to the country itself.
• fernly 3y ago
  I think the word that Rosenstock was searching for, was "Introvert"[1]. I'm an introvert who had the good fortune to marry another introvert, and live contentedly with her for 40+ years. Following her death a few years ago I reflected on the differences between being part of a couple, and being solitary. There were many. Health maintenance was one; somebody else in this thread has already commented on married men living longer. It works both ways, too. Each partner keeps tabs on the other, notices problems, encourages them to stick to health resolutions, etc. Plus you both are much less likely to forget things or miss appointments, because the other one is there to say, "Didn't you say..." or "Weren't you going to...?" and so on. There were other, more subtle but still powerful effects. In general, I and my wife, as a couple, were a bolder, smarter, more adventurous "person" than either of us was alone. So my advice to Rosenstock would be to seek another dedicated introvert. Of course it's hard to get their attention... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversion_and_introversion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraversion_and_introversion "Introversion is the state of primarily obtaining gratification from one's own mental life". There is a considerable popular literature on the benefits and drawbacks of being introverted.
  • amelius 3y ago
    > "Introversion is the state of primarily obtaining gratification from one's own mental life". If this is true, then why do we find so many introverts in online forums?
    • bayindirh 3y ago
      Being an introvert doesn’t mean they don’t like to share or communicate. It means they don’t crave real world human interaction as much. I’m also an introvert. I like to communicate at my own pace. Online forums allows me to do that. I can leisurely check for progress on the discussion where I participate, or don’t check at all, after adding my two cents.
    • DoreenMichele 3y ago
      At the risk of everyone wanting my head on a pike: A. We don't really know what introversion and extroversion are. B. The higher the IQ, the more likely they are to qualify for the label "introvert." So in at least some cases, it's possible smart people just give up on trying to connect socially because they get a lot of negative feedback from other people and it's mostly downside for them, so they stop bothering. Most people marry people within about 10 IQ points of themselves. If you are "introverted" because talking at most people is an extremely negative experience due to you having a high IQ, it's not unrealistic to shoot for finding a means to connect with someone of similar IQ in hopes of establishing a relationship. If your IQ is high enough, odds are good they will also be labeled "an introvert" by the world. Please note this is not saying "introversion indicates high IQ." That's not what it says at all.
• sublinear 3y ago
  Why are there so many articles about this lately? I don't see what the problem is or why being single is such a tragedy. Single doesn't mean being alone. Not everyone wants serious long term relationships and monogamy is on a serious decline. People used to aspire to have the single lifestyle we now pretend is so sad and lonely. Sounds like propaganda to me. We're overpopulated. Can't the prole have this one thing and thin out in style?
  • 9530jh9054ven 3y ago
    > Why are there so many articles about this lately? If nothing else, it is garnering attention. Looking at it from a purely cynical perspective, it resonates enough to generate views from the readers; certainly from this crowd at least. And engagement is the life blood of social media. More literally speaking; I don't know. Perhaps it's because that dream of a 'single' life style is becoming more and more inaccessible. How many have the financial freedom to be able to comfortably support a 'single life style' nowadays that isn't to just stay at home and play on the computer?
    • sublinear 3y ago
      > How many have the financial freedom to be able to comfortably support a 'single life style' nowadays that isn't to just stay at home and play on the computer? That's what fascinates me the most. Why is it engaging anyone on HN? Most people here are tech workers so if they stay single then they definitely make enough to have nice things, vacation almost anywhere, enjoy night life a few times week, etc. In all those interactions there are people to meet and you don't have to meet very many people to find someone who likes you. Many prefer to keep things casual at first. This is not a "bad thing" unless you are more in love with the idea of a relationship than the person. Unpack where that expectation is coming from and then no more tears. As the saying goes: "if you have to force it, it's probably shit". It really is that simple and of course it doesn't take very many casual relationships to find someone who wants to try being serious after getting to know you. The "pain" I see most people experiencing is just indecision and impatience, not true loneliness.
  • DoreenMichele 3y ago
• s1artibartfast 3y ago
  It seems like this quote gets to to heart of the issue: > a relationship isn’t an activity (like a job, hobby, or sport) to try and quit when you don’t like it. It requires two people, and you must find a second person willing to try. Finding someone is hard, though. This brings me back to what I said a few paragraphs ago; I don’t see myself ready to invest much in something I’m not even sure I want. Also, if it doesn’t work out, I’m scared of leaving a broken heart in another person. I would say that for many people a relationship are something to try and quit when you don't like it. It is easy to get caught up in what-ifs and commitment fears, but stakes are extremely low for starting one. This reminds me of people who build up a first kiss or first sex into some monumental event. It seems important or daunting for someone who hasn't done it, but once it has happened, most of that importance instantly evaporates. I also find the last fear of breaking the someone's heart infantilizing. You can't take ownership of other people's choices. Treat them as adults and let them take the risks they choose to.
  • numbers_guy 3y ago
    I respectfully disagree. Some people cannot help but be very heavily emotionally invested.
    • s1artibartfast 3y ago
      So they should be stripped of their right to choose what they want? Why shouldn't they be able to make decisions based on their emotions and why aren't they valid?
• vpastore 3y ago
  [flagged]
• honkycat 3y ago
  > However, a relationship isn’t an activity (like a job, hobby, or sport) to try and quit when you don’t like it. This actually isn't true. You can quit a relationship if you don't like it for any reason. However: it does require communication, which i know some people find extremely difficult, especially communicating bad news. Basically what he is describing here is "dating." Also: I would argue being unwilling to put yourself out there because you fear communication and delivering bad news is not as good or reasonable as the author describes. This should not be roped into the "haha, I'm an introvert" classification, and should be considered a dangerous compulsion. And if you are self-isolating and structuring your life around it, one could even say it is an obsessive compulsion. As in OCD. As in please see a doctor, because you are already self-isolating because of this compulsion. Loneliness kills. Isolation is literal torture for most humans. We can't let the software glitches in our brain control our entire lives.
• Syzygies 3y ago
  As a professor in office hours last night, my students were expressing anxiety about age thirty, as if that was old. Was I really saying people kept getting smarter past thirty? "Perhaps, wiser. And at least you can go more than forty seconds without thinking about sex." We're all different.
• sam8401 3y ago
  seek what is not false
• 9530jh9054ven 3y ago
  >I am not comfortable using either of those terms. Firstly, the choice of the word “celibacy” emphasizes sexuality over other aspects of a romantic relationship. I don’t think of it that way. Secondly, the incel culture turns me off. I have never blamed anyone for my situation, and I don’t think women’s rights should be up for discussion just because some men don’t get laid. Thirdly, and most importantly, at this point, I can’t even say whether I’m voluntarily or involuntarily single. It's... an interesting view point. I've used the incel label for myself for lack of a better term, but it's more inability to form any sort of emotional attachment to people in general. But must that label absolutely carry with it with a mindset of misplaced anger at the world? And if so, if I have no such fury against imagined or real slights, then what does that make me?
  • antiterra 3y ago
    Incel exists both as a descriptive term and the name of a kind of subculture. So, I’d recommend not using it to simply describe someone who just hasn’t consummated a relationship. Incel ‘culture’ usually encapsulates the online subculture that talks about evolutionary attractiveness, how they are beyond fixing and, at its worst, why women should be morally/legally obligated to couple with them as a service. It has its own body of jargon, archetypes and memes, and they generally self-identify with the term.
• throwawaycircus 3y ago
  Single life is the best. No arguments, one can live the way they want and no need to work long hours to support the family. I decided not to stay single forever. Thanks to Dating apps i can have different experiences every week.
• c2xlZXB5 3y ago
  I have been single all my life (I'm in my early 20s). I don't know if I have any desire to be in a relationship with anyone at this time. It may be selfish, but there are so many things I want to do with my limited time and I feel like a relationship will just hold me back from doing what I want to do. I guess it is a fear of being tied down to something and impose on my current, practically unlimited, freedom.
  • CharlesW 3y ago
    > I don't know if I have any desire to be in a relationship with anyone at this time. I mean, do you enjoy pair programming? Would you enjoy "pair programming with benefits"?
    • goy 3y ago
      That's a very nice to put it !
  • robbintt 3y ago
    It's all about tradeoffs. Sometime soon you should plan really far then take those requirements back to hit whatever soft deadlines (although there are few or no hard deadlines, so don't sweat it).
• muyuu 3y ago
  what's outrageous is that it has become acceptable to attack men, especially younger men, who are literal incels, on the basis that they haven't managed for some reason to secure any partners it's borderline psychopathic to demean people on that basis, to the point they become defensive of the fact because of the added stigma, and like in this blog they try to carve a space for themselves out of the label rather than denouncing the injustice of its usage
• bingobongodude 3y ago
  [flagged]
• bingobongodude 3y ago
  This whole thread needs to be shut down. WTF
  • at_a_remove 3y ago
    If you do not wish to participate, that's fine. But actively wanting other people not to participate is strange. Why oughtn't people who want to talk about this with one another do so?
    • bingobongodude 3y ago
      The sentiment is lopsided if you actually care about positive outcome and the audience on HN. "Being single" is not HN worthy. There are no learnings in this blog post a technical audience could learn from unless you want stereotypes to succeed.
      • bingobongodude 3y ago
        "My son is 12. He codes. And he fucks." - Who would post this to HN and not Reddit to troll? Seriously.
        • trallnag 3y ago
          Go throw a tantrum about it on Reddit
• pkdpic 3y ago
  > I don’t think women’s rights should be up for discussion just because some men don’t get laid Excellent quote re incel culture. This is a great piece of writing. It provoked a possibly-random thought. I cant afford to own a home in San Francisco. I want to because I was born there and always assumed I would. But sometimes it seems clear that no matter how bad I want that I'll never have it and that starts to make me feel crazy and hopeless and terrible about myself. Most days though I don't really think about it and am able to focus on the fact that I'm generally leading a very content and happy life. Sub out SF-home-ownership for being a millionaire, climbing mount everest, being taller etc. Not sure it's applicable but just a thought. Also might I suggest the term mehcels or m-cels? As in "meh".
  • LukasRos 3y ago
    Thank you, happy you liked my writing! And I could actually see myself adapting the term mehcel.
• lonetripper 3y ago
  I'm like him and looking for a girlfriend who is like him.
• magneticnorth 3y ago
  The author posted a follow-up today discussing his thoughts on whether he might be asexual or aromantic: https://lukasrosenstock.net/2023/04/12/the-word-asexual.html https://lukasrosenstock.net/2023/04/12/the-word-asexual.html I found it really interesting that he's sure he's not aromantic, because he's fallen in love before, but can't say for sure whether he's asexual. As someone who is both -sexual and -romantic, I find that fairly suggestive; at least for me, having a sex drive is a very noticeable experience.
• DoreenMichele 3y ago
  One thing I have figured out, though, is that I’m not interested in a relationship for its own sake. This is actually surprisingly healthy. People in dysfunctional relationships tend to dread being alone and seem to frequently make bad decisions rooted in trying to avoid being alone.
• alfor 3y ago
  > I don’t think women’s rights should be up for discussion just because some men don’t get laid That’s not the point. The places of men and women were clear before, now the current narrative is that women were oppressed and men were oppressor. That is a false reading of history. The biggest difficulties were put on men to sacrifice themselves for their family, country, society. Now we find ourselves in a culture that is completely dysfunctional with relationships. If a couple form at all and manage to have a few kids it’s not often that they will stay together long enough to bring the kids into adulthood. This is disastrous for everyone. So my advice is: reject the modern men ideal that you are used to, it’s wrong and broken, go toward traditional value, get muscular, confident and go to places were women are that mesh with your interests. And before someone call this misogynic, it’s not it’s simply the reconnaissance that men and women are different and complementary. This is a good example on how the culture is trying to destroy the masculine, it’s everywhere even in kids movies. https://youtu.be/ZT6Qo146Ncs https://youtu.be/ZT6Qo146Ncs
  • UncleEntity 3y ago
    > The places of men and women were clear before, now the current narrative is that women were oppressed and men were oppressor. Being able to buy your neighbor’s daughter for a couple goats and a milk cow seems pretty oppressive to me.
    • alfor 3y ago
      What do you think of having to go to war and get killed, going down in a shipwreck saving women and kids, etc. The lives of men were brutal back then. If I look at history that is a bit closer, grandfather and great grandfather those were the opposite of oppressors. At least the mens that were honored were the ones that created the most and helped people around the most. Women back then had they hands full with kids, house to keep and probably older parent around. I think it was seen as a duty and pride of men to make her wife life as easy and comfortable as possible.
    • kwere 3y ago
      basic Historian's fallacy, socioeconomics dinamics were a little bit different that we comprend. Most of drowries, bride prices, etc... were in most cases capital for the sustainment of the wife as she couldnt work as (much) men due to intensive child-rearing, not existing job opportunities, social obligations, etc... . most of "feminism" qualms came from upperclass enviroments of the early 20th century, and those are a limited worldview of gender dynamics. For example, poorer women didnt have the limitation to work as burgeuosie women declared,(as the social dogma shamed men who needed to make their wife to work) they couldnt afford to live on a single meager salary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price
• at_a_remove 3y ago
  I have a variety of stumbling blocks, handicaps if you will, to dating, including actually being handicapped. It's no one thing that is a deal breaker but there are enough of them, and each is quite large on its own, well ... I mentioned being handicapped. I have been on a rather intense regime of opioids for some time so I can control the pain and do things like "sleep" and "not scream into pillows." Yet if someone were to offer me the choice between keeping the painkillers or giving them up, but not feeling loneliness any more, I genuinely would not know which I would pick. Loneliness comes in many, many forms. It exists along multiple axes and, as always, the blessed can discount the sufferings of the cursed, even if they are themselves impoverished along another dimension. I consider loneliness to be one of the great problems of society: loneliness for peers, loneliness for romance, loneliness for someone who might enjoy your company sexually. Loneliness for another person who might understand where you come from on some topic of importance to you. Some might search for others who have similar tastes in music, or film, or some other passion. Different people feel different forms of it to different degrees, but so much of it revolves around a simple concept: is there someone else who feels the same as I, who has the same thoughts about this thing? Can I really be the only one in this? Think back and ask, when was the last time you had the response "yes, yes, exactly! Exactly like that! You've summed up what I have been trying to express"? Relationships are only the most obvious form of this, and relief from this kind of unanswered question of the soul is balanced by the uncertainties of the trek to find someone "like." Will it take long? Will I find anyone at all? Or will I simply stagger about the landscape, a random walk of rejection, percolation theory with the personal pain of being, kindly put, unsuitable? Will I find myself utterly lost, like a penguin in a Herzog documentary pursuing some mountain I haven't the reserves to reach? Do I even begin the climb down off of the local maxima at all, knowing that descent is so often treacherous? One of the more galling aspects is that just bringing up the topic invites advice given, all too freely, by those with no skin in the game. They will not suffer if their advice is incorrect. The person who glibly suggests you "get out there" will not experience the pain of rejection, the inner flinch as just one more sliver of your self-esteem is pared away as you recognize the suppressed flinch of revulsion on the face of another. And in this you discover, in a fractal nature, another kind of loneliness -- a person who does not care about your loneliness, making suggestions whether or not you would take them, only there to simply move the conversation to something more pleasant. Give us a pill for that.
• bradlys 3y ago
  I can’t say I resonate with this article beyond the headline. I’m almost 33 and I’m single. Out of those years, I’ve spent over 27 of them completely single. When I say I’ve been married and had a five year relationship - it sounds quite accomplished. But if you reframe it as - I’ve been single for over 27 years… it doesn’t sound very pleasant at all. And it hasn’t been. It’s been brutal. I’ve traveled all over the world looking for someone who would love me for who I am and would be a good person to start a family with - I’ve wound up empty handed. I’ve tried harder than 99% of men, I can guarantee that. I go out hundreds of times a year, travel extensively to meet people anywhere I can, and have used all kinds of services - all to a great lack of success. It is incredibly brutal for men like myself. For those wondering what the biggest hurdle is - I’m not physically attractive facially. This is my biggest flaw and it is alarmingly impossible to fix. I’ve had cosmetic surgery for my face to improve it but it’s incredibly minor improvements. Anything that would lead to more dramatic changes is quite risky in terms of effects (would I look better) and complications. It’s rough to work so hard your entire life for no one to deem you worthy of love just because you were born with a shit face. Life is cruel. I wasn’t meant to leave the shit region I grew up in. My genetics were never meant to get where I ended up. I brute forced my way to an incredibly successful position - and it’s clear that wasn’t supposed to happen.
• xyzelement 3y ago
  If the author is reading this... Your post is vulnerable and humble but at the same time your thinking is self centered and overly complicated. We are all unique snowflakes of course but maybe a good starting point is understanding why humans get into relationships. The most obvious reason is children. For many of us, the idea of leaving this planet without raising up the next generation is deeply unsatisfying. Is that a factor for you at all? Maybe on a deep level? The second reason is a desire for partnership - to support and be supported. To be richly enmeshed in another person's life - and the beautiful and painful things this entails. Those are the deeply meaningful reasons. Less deep are the desire to explore, to connect with a lot of people, to get to know them inside out so to speak even if you end up moving on. I suspect most men have these desires whether they are deeply conscious of them or just "pinging" you with a feeling of "maybe I should be doing more than I am as a single guy" In other words, discover your "why." If you think you might want kids for example, own that you feel this way. If you think a life without a person to be dedicated to is kinda meaningless, own that you feel this way. If you just feel like loser for not having figured this out - and don't want to feel that way - own that. Doesn't matter if your reason is good or bad - just connect to it. If you discover a reason and feel connected to your why, it all becomes a question of "how". I think it would be good to establish that. Because the "how" then changes a lot, finding the mother of your children is different than figuring out how to get laid.
  • LukasRos 3y ago
    I'm the author, and I'd like to thank you for this comment. Yes, I have a tendency for overthinking, so that's maybe why it seems complicated. I have thought about the different reasons for why people get into relationships as well and I think you categorized them well. I'm still unsure about my own "why" and that's what I'm trying to explore now starting with this post. Yes, I'd like to have children, but it's not a "burning desire" and it's difficult for me to imagine being a father without knowing who the mother of your children will be. Partnership sounds wonderful, but I'm not sure if a deep connection with a single person is really better than having a broader network of friends.
    • xyzelement 3y ago
• mock-possum 3y ago
  They’re single because they’re too scared to attempt to pursue a relationship. There is no mystery here, they outline it explicitly: > The obvious course of action when you are unsure about something is experimentation. However, a relationship isn’t an activity (like a job, hobby, or sport) to try and quit when you don’t like it. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Naïve, self-defeating. every relationship is an experiment. and if you try it and don’t like it then you can quit any time. > Also, if it doesn’t work out, I’m scared of leaving a broken heart in another person. Yes. That’s the real problem, fear of the unknown. Better to love and to lose, than to live and to never have found love.
  • tamrix 3y ago
    See that's the problem. Either party can just quit at any time. Get a house, couple kids and a retirement fund. Then have her watch sex in the city and have girls nights out. To divorce papers, child support, demestic abuse and losing your family. Sounds great casually but let's be real here. Someone's heart will get broken eventually. Unless you're going to marry a God fearing feminine unicorn. You have to agree there's a large risk here. Once you see your father, extended family and friends go through this pain. You can admit it isn't for everyone. Loneliness is less painful. You can look at the bright side though. You as a man can do whatever you want. Focus on yourself instead. And spend all your own money.
    • mock-possum 3y ago
      Sorry but are we complaining about women doing now? Watching tv shows? Going out with their friends??
• 1letterunixname 3y ago
  They don't know even half of what they're missing but it's like they want a reward and approval for this bold, uninformed proclamation they want to lash their identity to. Maybe it's just me, but: love, romantic sexual relationships, and some indescribable things between make life worth living. That's the good shit. Life is so goddamn short: spend it with interesting, cool, reliable people. And fuck around while you can because there will be a time when you can't. You don't have to be clever, smooth, a genius, or perfect.. just treat others as human and be real. An interest in someone other than oneself. If that someone else doesn't reciprocate, move on. With age and practice, it gets as easy and natural as walking. Regret at the end of life for a path not traveled is a living hell that cannot be undone. The goal in life should be to die happy having done everything and having dented the universe a bit.
  • qikInNdOutReply 3y ago
    The bits of the universe you dented were your kids, and they have the problems now the guy above has. Nice for you that the world worked out for you from the get go, but if its happier for your box, no need to rub it into everyones face. Seems to me, the default for developers in not your experience. Guess its sort of self selected for, with the job filtering for the neuros who make it to it.
  • hnthrway 3y ago
    Hell is the life lived, not the end of life, it's on you if you choose to spend your remaining time dwelling on your most painful experiences I couldn't imagine someone having that reaction at the end of their life
• DiscourseFan 3y ago
  I've been single for a couple years now. I don't have any trouble meeting women, its just that my standards are a lot higher than they used to be. Though I am moving to another part of the world in less than 6 months, so that may be contributing to my hesitancy. I just can't do casual sex unless I'm paying for it. If I fuck a girl after a date, I practically hear wedding bells when I cum.
• 35208654 3y ago
  Sounds like Lukas is aromantic and asexual, which doesn’t preclude having meaningful friendships with any gender.
  • LukasRos 3y ago
    Not sure if I am, but I have given it some thought in a follow-up post: https://lukasrosenstock.net/2023/04/12/the-word-asexual.html https://lukasrosenstock.net/2023/04/12/the-word-asexual.html
• b3lvedere 3y ago
  "The clock is ticking, and figuring myself out and finding a partner won’t get easier as I get older." Why is the clock ticking? If you want offspring then there's a limited timeframe, but for all other things i doubt there's a distinct timeframe. I've read about 70 year olds dating and enjoying live.
  • phito 3y ago
    The clock is always ticking. It's native to assume that you will get to old age, things could end anytime.
• TurkishPoptart 3y ago
  Online dating is traumatizing. It's nearly impossible to meet people in real life due to the gender ratio in my city. I would like to get married/have kids but I don't see that happening in this world/generation.
• latchkey 3y ago
  There is another update: https://lukasrosenstock.net/2023/04/12/the-word-asexual.html https://lukasrosenstock.net/2023/04/12/the-word-asexual.html
• dorkwood 3y ago
  > Also, if it doesn’t work out, I’m scared of leaving a broken heart in another person. I used to have the same worry when I was younger. I think it came from overestimating the fragility of the average person, and underestimating their ability to deal with it. People can cope with more than you think. And so can you.
• serverlessmania 3y ago
  Remote work don't help in finding partners those days.
• IYasha 3y ago
  Just feels.jpg
• adultSwim 3y ago
  This essay resonates with me. It's deeply honest and introspective. Best wishes to the author.