21 ms·

I worked at Google for -10 days

• jfisher4024 4y ago
  This happened to me too. After I got an offer letter from Google, I was ghosted and notified that the position was deprioritized a week after I was supposed to have started. I signed a lease in the intervening period expecting a 50% raise compared to my previous job. Bad move lol. Took forever to find a different job.
• glitchc 4y ago
  Is your visa still valid? If so, move to London anyways. You've already quit your job and sold your stuff. Chances are if you qualified for Google, you'll find work there. In for a penny, in for a pound, as the Brits say.
  • darknavi 4y ago
    It's definitely possible to thrive here but moving somewhere with a _much_ higher cost of living without having a job is a bold move.
    • namdnay 4y ago
      for a software engineer, i think the risk is close to 0 :)
      • throwaway743 4y ago
        That's a big assumption to make.
    • ghaff 4y ago
      And, to be frank (if sympathetic), I'm not sure unemployed Russian wanting to move to London has the strongest hand to play right now, even if the software developer job market is still reasonably strong.
  • vladharbuz 4y ago
    A sponsored Skilled Worker Visa becomes invalid 60 days after employment ends.
    • incone123 4y ago
      In this case the employment never even started. The 60 days is for people already in the country to either move out or find another visa sponsor.
      • toomanyrichies 4y ago
        Only 60 days? Wow. Given how long the interview process can be for some skilled positions (as evidenced by the author's lengthy hiring process), I'm surprised this window for finding a replacement job is so short.
        • rwmj 4y ago
          A rule of thumb for dealing with the Home Office is that nothing is done out of kindness or common sense (or even legality). Everything is done with the aim of removing from or denying entry to as many people as possible. And even at this "job" it is mostly ineffective.
  • incone123 4y ago
    UK work visas are linked to the specific employer so they become invalid if the offer is withdrawn.
  • andgein 4y ago
    Hi! I'm not sure if my visa is valid, and all "immigration consultants" can not answer me directly. My short-term entry visa is attached to my Certificate of Sponsorship, which has been revoked together with the contract. Be default I assume that my visa is revoked too, because I don't want to take that chance.
    • glitchc 4y ago
      That's fair.
  • mmxmb 4y ago
    Assuming this is a T2 Skilled worker visa, working for an approved employer that sponsored the visa application is one of the conditions of this visa type. Very similar to H1B.
• tibbon 4y ago
  Probably not, but I wonder if it would be prudent to try to ask for pre-hiring retention agreements. If you make me an offer and I accept, if you retract or downsize between that signature and 90 days after starting - then you pay me some amount? But... few would probably agree to it for non-executive positions. Executives of course, play by different rules and can have all sorts of special things negotiated.
  • eftychis 4y ago
    Signing bonus. I think the way a number of contracts are worded you keep it.
• joezydeco 4y ago
  ...asking to connect with me regarding “an update on my Google offer”. I chose to connect the following day. It's nice to know that Google is consistent in the use of the phrase "An update on...". If you see this, it's dead.
  • tristan957 4y ago
    A similar phrasing happened to a rescinded MongoDB offer I had last week.
  • Panini_Jones 4y ago
    I had a company use this as a scare tactic, I think. They emailed me with an "update on my offer" only to make me wait an entire day for them to say that a lot of other people were accepting their offers and that I should hurry up. I thought it was rescinded for an entire day.
• Laaas 4y ago
  Is there any legal basis for suing Google? This seems beyond egregious.
  • pc86 4y ago
    In what jurisdiction? The author doesn't live in Britain and Google doesn't appear to have offices in Russia according to their office page.
    • tazjin 4y ago
      Google closed its office here in Moscow last year, but they have very recently (in the last weeks) started business in Russia again (at least YouTube in Russia has ads again, and for Russian companies). Who knows :) Either way, unlikely to work in any case.
• kleiba 4y ago
  I worked at Google for 0 days. There. Fixed that for you.
  • comprev 4y ago
    Not sure why you've been downvoted so much as it's the brutal truth. The author cannot put "worked at Google" on their CV.
    • kleiba 4y ago
      Thanks, and sorry you got downvoted as well (for no good reason, obviously - that's just the way HN works sometimes).
    • mathgeek 4y ago
      I assume the downvotes are because the reply attempts to "correct" what the author wrote as satire (or another similar term if you don't feel "satire" is accurate here).
      • kleiba 4y ago
        You got that wrong, I am trying to point out that this article really actually contains no content other than sporting a click-baity headline.
    • kevinmgranger 4y ago
      Nowhere did the author imply they would put that. The author is talking about the strange situation of being fired before they had started. The person you're replying to is being downvoted because it adds zero value to the conversation here. Or perhaps, aptly... negative value.
      • kleiba 4y ago
        Value lies in the eye of the beholder. If you think there is value in a factually incorrect, nonsensical, and obviously click-baity titles then sure, go on enjoying articles like that.
• sashank_1509 4y ago
  There’s no great solution to this apart from the economy and company doing well so that this doesnt happen. I’ll lay out the reasons below: 1. Let’s say we pass a law that prevents offers from being revoked. This will make hiring much harder and increase 5 rounds to like 10 and involve many more committees and even then most candidates other than sureshots getting rejected. 2. Ban revoking offers only for overseas employees (who are hurt most by this). This will ensure that the hiring bar for overseas employees is set sky high and it will already be harder for them to compete since they likely won’t have prestigious firms on their resume already compared to FAANG that American Employees would have. Open to policy suggestions but I don’t see any good methods that prevents new candidates from being unfairly disadvantaged and stops months of preparation being put to waste due to offers being revoked
  • twawaaay 4y ago
    I fail to see the reason for why ban on revoking offers would cause 2x more interview rounds.
    • malfist 4y ago
      It's a strawman. If a company decided they were going to hire someone, they wouldn't suddenly decide to spend twice as much hiring that person, just in case they have a layoff in the future. It just doesn't follow
  • mschild 4y ago
    On a general level sure maybe, but for this particular case, there was little economical need for Google to have any layoffs. They're swimming in money and are highly profitable. Pulling the rug out underneath a new employee who is days away from starting and moving his whole life to a new country is simply shitty behaviour.
    • crdrost 4y ago
      Per The Goal, these sorts of broad untargeted cost-cutting measures usually hit revenue as hard as they do costs, I do wonder if Sundar’s “we're heading for a different economic reality” doom mindset will become a self-fulfilling prophecy... At Google that looks like "oh we lost our gov't contacts because we couldn't meet the new software build-chain rules in time because we were understaffed and trying to bet more people on Bard... now we have to lay off more people" and so on. But they are definitely so flush with cash that any prediction of a doom spiral of every increasing cost-cutting measures would be way way premature.
• cleansy 4y ago
  Time to learn about a relocation clause in the general employee agreement: Clause [X]: Relocation Expenses and Redundancy Protection The Company agrees to reimburse the Employee for reasonable and necessary relocation expenses incurred by the Employee in connection with the Employee's relocation to the work location specified in this Agreement, subject to the terms and conditions set forth herein ("Relocation Expenses"). The Relocation Expenses shall include, but not be limited to, the actual costs of moving the Employee's personal property, temporary housing expenses for up to [number] days, transportation costs for the Employee and their immediate family members, and any other reasonable and necessary expenses incurred as a direct result of the relocation, up to a maximum amount of $[amount]. The Employee shall provide the Company with receipts or other documentation evidencing the Relocation Expenses within [number] days of incurring such expenses. The Company shall reimburse the Employee for the Relocation Expenses within [number] days of receiving satisfactory documentation from the Employee. In the event the Employee's role is made redundant before the Employee's start date, the Company shall still be liable for the reimbursement of the Relocation Expenses incurred by the Employee, provided that such expenses were incurred within [one (1) month] prior to the date the role is made redundant (the "Cut-Off Date"). The Company's obligation to reimburse the Employee's Relocation Expenses shall survive the termination of this Agreement for any reason, including but not limited to the Employee's role being made redundant before the Employee's start date. If the Employee voluntarily terminates their employment with the Company within [one (1) year] of the Employee's start date, the Employee shall be required to repay to the Company, within [number] days of the termination date, a prorated portion of the Relocation Expenses reimbursed by the Company, calculated based on the percentage of the [one (1) year] period not completed by the Employee.
  • ghaff 4y ago
    It sounds like he may not have actually incurred any non-reimbursable expenses though other than maybe canceling an airline ticket. He's obviously incurred lots of disruption with associated costs (quitting job, getting rid of most of his stuff) but these aren't the sort of things that qualify for relocation expenses.
    • cleansy 4y ago
• VLM 4y ago
  Its kind of impressive that getting hired is now slower than college admissions or getting married.
  • nostrademons 4y ago
    Google has always been notoriously slow unless you have competing offers, and even then is usually the offer you're waiting on. I did my entire Stripe interview process in the time it took to go from HC-approved to offer letter at Google, and I was a rehire, and the SVP in question knew me by name (he was my former skip). Stripe launched the product I was applying for before I'd finished my Noogler ramp-up.
• jmyeet 4y ago
  Sorry this happened to you. I’d obviously not your fault. I want to give general advice for people changing jobs in the future. Don’t quit your first job until you’ve physically started your second job. Take sick leave. Take vacations. Just don’t show up if you have no other option. This is particularly the case if your immigration status is dependent on employment but it applies generally. Companies will not hesitate to get rid of you or rescind an offer based on market whims if nothing at all. It’s of no consequence to them. They’ll be fine if you just don’t show up. It is an asymmetrical relationship with a severe power imbalance.
  • Aardwolf 4y ago
    I don't know how you could practically do that since there's usually a notice period to leave the previous company, and the contract may exclude working for two employers at the same time
    • no-2-wk-notice 4y ago
      Just don't give notice until the day you start at the new company.
      • ajdlinux 4y ago
        In places that aren't America, it's often a legal requirement (whether by statute or by customary contractual clauses) to give a minimum notice period, and employees who resign without notice can be penalised an amount of money that may be non-trivial for many workers.
        • mpeg 4y ago
          FWIW, in the UK notice periods are not worth enforcing either, you have to prove (as the employer) that you incurred extra costs because of the short notice which is tricky and usually not worth it.
      • kdmccormick 4y ago
        Seems like a good way to incinerate your professional relationship with your outgoing manager. I guess if you would never use them for a reference anyway, that's fine, but what if you do want to use them as a reference in the future?
• no-2-wk-notice 4y ago
  This is why I suggest not giving two weeks notice when leaving a job for another. Instead send a resignation email the morning you start at the new company. This seems fair and reasonable given that companies are willing to pull offers.
  • kdmccormick 4y ago
    I posted this on your other comment, but I'll post it here again. Leaving without 2 weeks notice seems like a good way to incinerate your professional relationship with your outgoing manager/teammates. I guess if you would never use them for a reference anyway, that's fine, but what if you do want to use them as a reference in the future? Or is your experience that your former team didn't actually mind that you just quit one day?
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    • kevinventullo 4y ago
      Explain to them why you had to do it this way; it’s a consequence of companies rescinding offers at the last second.
      • kdmccormick 4y ago
        Are you speaking from experience?
      • cortesoft 4y ago
        If you are a good employee and you handle your departure professionally, you can instead tell your old employer that your new job fell through and go back to your old job. If you burn your bridges on your way out, then you can never go back. What happens if your new job lets you go after a week? If you are worried about a job pulling an offer a week before you start, you should be worried about it being pulled a week after you start. You are protecting yourself from an offer being pulled before you start by exposing yourself to extra risk if they pull the offer after you start. It seems like a poor trade.
• remote_phone 4y ago
  I don’t remember hearing about offers that were recalled during the dot com bust. Is this something new that is now the new normal?
  • pja 4y ago
    Generally in the dot.com bust you woke up to discover that your contract wasn’t worth the paper it was notionally written on because your future employer had just gone bankrupt. This wave of redundancies is a choice made by the managements of the FAANG (excepting Apple?) & related companies: Google in particular has spent more in share buybacks this year than it would take to employ the people management laid off for decades to come if I understand the numbers correctly.
• onion2k 4y ago
  Having an offer rescinded for 'business reasons' is unbelievably annoying, and the author has my sympathy. That said, it's kind of understandable too. Things happen. The landscape changes. Some people will be affected. You kind of have to roll with it sometimes. I wish the author the best of luck finding something else quickly. What I find truly incredible though is that it took a full year to go from application to having a start date. That's glacially slow even for a giant company. How can any team get anything done if it takes that long to bring additional resources in?
  • tifik 4y ago
    I imagine for gargantuan companies with significant amount of pull for talent there is always a good pool of candidates in later stages of the hiring process to pick from.
  • rahimnathwani 4y ago
    "How can any team get anything done if it takes that long to bring additional resources in?" From the candidate's perspective, it took a year. But from the team's perspective, it might have been only a month or so, because team matching typically starts only after interviews are complete and the hiring packet has been reviewed.
  • crazygringo 4y ago
    > How can any team get anything done if it takes that long to bring additional resources in? You're misunderstanding the timing. Google doesn't hire for a specific team -- it determines you pass the bar for hiring, then they have to match you to a team. If a team inside of Google needs a new employee, it often only takes a couple of weeks, whether it's an internal transfer, or whether it's a new hire who's been waiting around to be matched with a team. Obviously it can take a little longer if a team decides the candidate they want is in another city/country because of relocation and visas, but that's nothing to do with Google.
  • stbenjam 4y ago
    > Having an offer rescinded for 'business reasons' is unbelievably annoying, and the author has my sympathy. That said, it's kind of understandable too. Things happen. It's not understandable, Google is doing financially fine. If they determine they made a mistake they should have to pay a penalty. You would not get that grace in your own personal life, I don't know why we grant it to companies in employment contracts. Sign an apartment lease and change your mind? You'll be on the hook for a huge payment. Companies revoking offers should be subject to penalties and to make the other party whole.
• tifik 4y ago
  That sucks. I moved first, then started looking for a job, because I was afraid of this exact scenario. I am not Russian but I imagine that for Russians it is likely very difficult to immigrate into a western country without a job offer in the current geopolitical situation. Good luck. The current SI job market definitely made me reconsider my previous approach of finding greener pastures every 2-3 years. Being the newest person in a company during mass layoffs would be butt-clenching. A good reminder to all of us that we are not special and good times don't last.
  • nisegami 4y ago
    >for Russians it is likely very difficult to immigrate into a western country without a job offer in the current geopolitical situation It's difficult for _anyone_ to immigrate to a western country without a job offer.
    • tifik 4y ago
      Fair point. To be precise, by difficult I meant 'practically impossible', which to your point would certainly apply to pretty much anyone from outside of what is considered 'western' countries. While there certainly always is a process, if you are already a citizen of any western country, immigrating to another one is relatively easy in comparison.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• comprev 4y ago
  Surely by law you've not "worked" anywhere until one complete business day under contract? This "minus 10 days" is another way of saying "My employer & I had a contract which they legally revoked before my first day of employment" The blog entry reads like SEO spam to tell potential employers "Hey, I was smart enough to get offered a job at FAANG!" without _actually_ working there.
• tyingq 4y ago
  I've heard several stories about companies rescinding offers in a timeframe where it's obvious the candidate would have already made irreversible decisions. Funny thing is that the same HR people will tell their own stories about candidates backing out with huge eyerolls, distain, etc. I suppose the more common it becomes, the less the "offer" process will mean in practice. Candidates will hedge their bets. Edit: If it becomes really common, that will probably also destroy the "2 week notice" thing. Why out myself if I'm not 100% sure I have my new job?
  • duxup 4y ago
    > HR people will tell their own stories about candidates backing A few years ago a recruiter who ghosted me once posted how tired they were of candidates doing the same to them.
    • VikingCoder 4y ago
      George Carlin: Everyone who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everyone who drives faster than you is an asshole.
      • ProjectArcturis 4y ago
        It's a good joke, but isn't that accurate? If I'm driving at the proper speed, anyone driving faster or slower is wrong.
        • loco5niner 4y ago
          First you have to define proper speed. At least in the US, it's not the posted speed limit. It's condition-dependent (rain, fog, etc)
        • BoorishBears 4y ago
          What's the proper speed? If the majority of traffic is going 70 in a 65, and you consider the speed limit the proper speed, to the majority trying to squeeze around you: you're the idiot. If you consider "the going rate of traffic" the proper speed, then everyone going the speed limit will look at you as the speeding idiot.
• duxup 4y ago
  > I held a “garage sale” (in Russian) and sold most of my belongings. Does this mean the Russian term is garage sale? I’m amused that in the US we use that term too.
  • kmm 4y ago
    I think he means the link will go to a page in Russian. Though the Russian term is indeed гаражная распродажа, which indeed just translates word-for-word to "garage sale"
  • andgein 4y ago
    No, what I meant was that "garage sale" is actually a hyperlink that leads to a Russian website. Sorry for any confusion caused by my bad wording.
  • negus 4y ago
    There is nothing surprising. Russians watch lots of American movies/TV shows. So many terms are being borrowed. This how the culture spreads. Even though very few Russians would actually hold a sale in a garage due to the difference in housing between Russia and the US
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• karmakurtisaani 4y ago
  Something similar almost happened to me. Took months to interview, matched with a team that was working on a very interesting product and passed the hiring committee. Apparently the whole product was axed before they sent me an offer, so no hire this time. Probably a good thing in this climate, as this was just at the time the hiring freezes began. I wouldn't have relocated at least, but would have of course quit my current job and probably had a bad time in the present job market.
• digitalgangsta 4y ago
  Seems Google treats its employees like they treat their customers. My experience with Google as a customer is just as frustrating (have had corporate accounts locked out with no avenue for recourse except sending emails over weeks, to simply be denied again because their bots think I'm doing something strange, and products my company was relying on and using simply stop being supported one day). I stopped using or supporting Google related products, and declined moving forwards on an interview offer as a result. This story just reinforces this view.
  • H8crilA 4y ago
    It's all correct, though they do pay good money. Otherwise it's just a large, messy organisation where blame deflection is everyone's basic survival strategy. This is for example why he got such cryptic messages all the way through, nobody wanted to tell him that things are actually shit and unlikely to result in an employment before their boss' boss' boss announces that this is the case.
    • technothrasher 4y ago
      > though they do pay good money. When my wife was looking for a VP level position at a tech company last year, Google's interview process was by far the most cumbersome and their offer was the lowest she got by a sizeable amount. When she mentioned this to them, they said she could begin the process all over again to see if she could maybe get more. She thanked them for their time and then accepted one of the reasonable offers she got.
      • VirusNewbie 4y ago
        I cannot actually believe this. Can you share actual numbers? Google pays well above most Fortune 50 companies at the VP level. Definitely over a few million per year. I can think of a handful of companies that pay more, unless I’m totally mistaken.
        • jsnell 4y ago
• bojo 4y ago
  I've had a similar story happen in the past. I was living in Japan looking for remote jobs and came across Couchbase. Interviewed well with the team who all seemed excited to get someone with my experience on board, however, the hiring manager said he wasn't sure he wanted to manage someone in my timezone. He pulled me into a separate call at the end of the rounds and asked some weird questions, which in hindsight were documentation. When the HR person handling me called to congratulate me and sent the offer letter I was pretty excited. It seemed the timezone thing wasn't a problem then. I put my notice in with my other job, and then waited for a week. Two weeks. Three. HR person didn't know what was going on when I called them back. Then I got any email from Couchbase's lawyers with a document stating they would hire me for 10 days total and no longer. Fuck you very much, hiring manager Larry. If you didn't want to hire me so bad why the dog and pony show? I scrambled to see if my old position was open, but the CEO said he had closed it because, well, I put my notice in right at the end of the budget year and he moved that money. I went unemployed for 5 months as I hunted for jobs, both local and remote. It put a massive amount of strain on my marriage, my mental health, and everything in between. Thankfully it didn't include a move as it sounds like the blog author did.
  • mattw2121 4y ago
    Never put in notice until background checks and all on boarding paperwork is 100% complete. Putting in notice on an offer letter is premature and, unfortunately, leads to bad results.
    • etherealG 4y ago
      In France where I work an offer letter is binding to hire. After that if you are fired you are entitled to strong compensation if there is no proof you failed at your job. On top of that there is significant unemployment benefits to support you during looking for a new job for years. This seems like a normal societies way to secure the transition between jobs. I’m thankful I don’t live in any of these crazy places that make changing jobs seem like a severe stress way beyond what it should be.
    • zinclozenge 4y ago
• TideAd 4y ago
  Remember in the hot 2021 hiring market when Coinbase revoked offers because of a layoff? I remember deciding they were on my blacklist after that. I thought their leadership and recruiting were too disorganized to trust with my career. Of course you can lose your job at any time, but letting a candidate quit their old job and relocate and then get laid off is not something that should ever happen. And now it's layoff season, and every big company has recently done this to huge numbers of people. So as a labor force, what do we do about this? How to we protect ourselves now that the deal between employers and employees has broken down even further?
  • FredPret 4y ago
    Keep growing that blacklist and put it online. The cornerstone of the free market is that you have to exercise your power of choice in intelligent pursuit of your best interests
    • nailer 4y ago
      If you buy a nice domain and add references to the list it would definitely end up on front page of HN.
  • glitchc 4y ago
    Form a guild. Other professionals have organizations to protect them, engineers should too. This is the way.
    • jupp0r 4y ago
      What existing organization would have prevented what happened to OP?
      • glitchc 4y ago
        None. A guild would fight with government for rights on his behalf.
• xooglechoogle 4y ago
  Entities with massive wealth, such as Google, should always use money to soften the blow of their mistakes. Giving this person a small chunk of cash would make me respect Google so much more than just screwing this person's life up and saying "Whoops, you're fired, lol!" But it's been a long time since Google was a cool company.
  • wahnfrieden 4y ago
    It's simple profit motive. What you're asking for is something else
  • petercooper 4y ago
    I agree, but as 'Bill Gates' said on The Simpsons: "I didn't get rich by writing a lot of checks."
    • xooglechoogle 4y ago
      Easily justified as good marketing. This #1 post on HN will Google (in various ways) much more than the cash they could have used to look like good guys, even if it wasn't done out of goodness.
      • petercooper 4y ago
        Much more than the cash to handle potentially thousands of applicants who were in a similar position? (Don't get me wrong, I do think large companies should be held to higher ethical standards, but we don't seem to be there yet.)
  • bagacrap 4y ago
    No mention of the relocation bonus. Was there one? Did they rescind that as well? Since I'm 90% sure Google would pay for international relocation, and the blog post didn't mention it (which it surely would have if Google had offered then rescinded one), I suspect he did get to keep that.
    • 4y ago
• bobbiechen 4y ago
  Sorry to hear this story and hope the author finds a new job soon. I had a similar (but significantly lower stakes) experience with an internship which was canceled. At the end of the day, thanks to the generosity of the company's severance-for-zero-days-worked and the help of a stranger to find new roles for us, I think I came out ahead. The experience profoundly shaped my career and I wrote about it here: https://bobbiechen.com/blog/2021/11/5/the-layoff-the-landing https://bobbiechen.com/blog/2021/11/5/the-layoff-the-landing , and I hope the situation works out for the author as well.
• JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  Worked at a startup, hired a guy - we got bought his first week, they closed our office. So on one check he got his hiring bonus, relocation expenses, first paycheck and severance.
  • petodo 4y ago
    [dead]
  • dehrmann 4y ago
    It sucks, but at least he got all the payouts. And unlike Google, the office was closed, so it's more understandable.
• shortrounddev 4y ago
  It was enlightening to me when I started applying to jobs to find out that the companies which were renowned for their innovation and productivity had a several week, 5-stage+, committee-based hiring process that made you feel like a sow getting its haunches graded before slaughter
• HeavyFeather 4y ago
  Sounds like there should be a legally mandated escrow for this kind of hiring. The employer should guarantee 2/3 months of employment if they’re asking someone to move across the world. This really shouldn’t be an issue if companies actually fulfilled their duties.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• bbarn 4y ago
  Advice about what to do after you've already done something else isn't very useful, but when my wife and I moved internationally for her new job, we made sure to have it be a slow process. First she went, rented a short term apartment, while I moved all of our belongings into a storage facility, then once she felt good about the position she found us a nicer more permanent home, then I sold our home in the US, the car, and moved to meet her in the other country. Yes, it was more expensive, and we certainly wasted some money, but my feeling was if the company can't compensate us appropriately to take this risk, it's not worth the risk. They helped with moving expenses and apartment selection and the first two month's rent. If something had gone wrong, or she'd felt like it was a bait and switch, we had months of buffer to fall back on.
  • ghaff 4y ago
    This is far more sensible advice than all the "there ought to be a law" (in which jurisdiction?) comments on this thread and probably also more realistic than trying to figure out how to protect yourself 100% against any eventuality. Even without moving internationally, managers change, executives decide to cancel projects or cut back headcount, etc. Sure, that can happen a year down the road too. But if something is going to be a big move, it makes sense to find ways to at least reduce the harm if it turns out there really wasn't a meeting of the minds or circumstances changed.
    • dehrmann 4y ago
      > in which jurisdiction? It'd be the country of employment, but that presents a huge enforcement problem for people like this. Navigating your own country's legal system is hard enough, but another country's?
    • actionablefiber 4y ago
      I mean, the advice is "use a giant pile of money to set up and maintain a dual-home situation until you are satisfied that the job will pan out." Laws are supposed to protect people who don't have the resources to proactively hedge against stuff like this.
• gregw2 4y ago
  Sorry for your loss. Been there, kinda. I got a job at IBM in the mid 90s. They sold the division to Loral before I started but I decided to stay in the position. Then congress cancelled the 2billion dollar contract. I was laid off before I started. They had the decency to send me two weeks pay in return for signing something that I wouldn’t sue them. So at least I got paid a little bit.
• Izmaki 4y ago
  Working for Google was a big dream of me when I was just starting out in my career. If I were offered a position today, I would most likely decline it.
• n0us 4y ago
  Don't be evil!
• nailer 4y ago
  I ended up in London (moving from Melbourne Australia) after a similar (but not quite the same) situation with Facebook in 2008. At the time, I worked for IBM's dedicated Linux division, and before then had worked for Red Hat. Facebook wanted an SRE, and I had 10 interviews between Melbourne and Palo Alto all about SRE topics - Linux, iptables, sockets, systemtap, VLANs, DNS, python, etc. They were tough questions which I loved, and I tried my best to answer, always getting to the next round. Interviews were often at unsociable hours but I didn't mind. The final stage was to leave Australia, travel to London, and "meet the SRE team and start work". This was a cursory check to make sure I was a good fit, but they were already ordering a machine - did I want Mac or PC? - and a big monitor. The "meet the team" interview with the other "SREs" consisted of" - Why don't you have a CS degree (I have a business degree obtained in my teens) - We mainly fix badly written PHP? Do you code PHP? - Here's some maths, convert it to code (I didn't know what a particular symbol meant) Literally nothing SRE related, and nothing like the Palo Alto folk (which were actually much harder interviews) were looking for. I ended up in London in September 2008 with no job and no life in Australia to go home to. I ended up making it and I hope this person does too.
• vdnkh 4y ago
  You are now a tech-journalist revered "ex-googler", enjoy your newfound credibility!
• 0xDEF 4y ago
  It is interesting how much Google's reputation has been damaged by how they did layoffs despite being one of the best paying and highest ranked workplaces in the world. So much multi-year effort ruined in a few months.
• Manjuuu 4y ago
  How to slowly destroy a company's reputation one silly decision at a time.
• eiiot 4y ago
  Seems to have received the HN kiss of death... Archive: https://archive.ph/xdoVH https://archive.ph/xdoVH
• entropyneur 4y ago
  Russia has enacted a law today that basically says that you can't leave the country from the moment they decide to draft/mobilize you. So good thing you already have your belongings sold. Time to jump on a plane to Tbilisi.
  • 0xDEF 4y ago
    Most tech people in Russia are rich enough to bribe themselves out of that.
• paxys 4y ago
  Weird title. Their offer was rescinded 10 days before the start date. They didn't work at Google at all.
• harshalizee 4y ago
  The emergent behavior from devs now is going to be overlapping employment between jobs to safeguard themselves from this kind of shenanigans. Your first day on the new job should be the day you put in your two weeks notice at your old job. Ramp down and ramp up accordingly. This advice only applies to USA though.
• maerF0x0 4y ago
  This is the purpose of a signing + relocation bonus. And if the contract is well written it will be yours regardless if you start, and also if the company chooses to terminate you before 1yr. Unfortunately it's hard to negotiate with $BIGTECH .
• KRAKRISMOTT 4y ago
  Sue them for promissory estoppel.
• ugh123 4y ago
  Rescinding offers due to layoffs is the biggest dick-move in corporate hiring. Laying off before first year vest without acceleration is the second biggest dick-move.
• 6510 4y ago
  Don't quit until you've signed the new contract.
• Warputin 4y ago
  Good Wind Forward — as we say in Denmark. I’m sure your skills are required elsewhere.
• treme 4y ago
  good to know google isn't evil but totally ok being the anti-schindler when google-hirable guys are getting drafted to ukraine
• miniwark 4y ago
  The "business reasons" by Google are probably completely fake, but we have some pointers from OP who give us the real reason : - OP is russian - OP was working at Yandex (who had an history of "strange" relationships with the russian government) - in December 2022 Vladimir Poutine take over the russian subsidiaries of Yandex (through Alexeï Koudrine) -> more "strange" relationships - OP received an official offer in December 2022 - Russia invade Ukraine in february 2023 - OP was terminated by Google in the following days in march I am not Google, but i also would have avoided to hire a russian, just after the start of the war. I bet than all russian potential hire had been terminated the same way during the same period. Too much red flags to take the risk to hire a potential FSB agent.
  • vore 4y ago
    This is way too conspiratorial thinking and it’s more than likely Google did exactly what they said instead. Are Americans who work at large corporations with government contracts also all likely CIA agents to you?
    • technothrasher 4y ago
      I have no way of knowing why Google rescinded this guys job offer. But they did, in fact, halt at least briefly some Russian hiring in April 2022 because of the war. https://www.businessinsider.com/google-reinstates-job-offers-for-russia-students-2022-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/google-reinstates-job-offers...
  • gberger 4y ago
    That doesn't check out, your timeline is not quite correct. Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022, not 2023. That's before OP even started the application.
    • miniwark 4y ago
      Yes your right... Seem like i was wrong. Sorry, I have made a brain fart here.
  • 4y ago
• uptownfunk 4y ago
  Treat yourself like your own mega Corp. Don’t give notice until you’ve already basically started at your new job (nowadays easier than ever), passed your background check. You don’t owe anyone anything, you have to look out for yourself, just like mega Corp is looking out for themselves. You can still be polite about it, but put yourself first always. Even if you sign and are employed at a Corp for one day and you find something better, never think twice about taking the better opportunity. Remember you are labor being exploited to provide the mega Corp with their multiples
• bradwood 4y ago
  I hope you didn't get paid for -10 days of work too!
• smsm42 4y ago
  Google surely pays well, and it must be that working there is a pleasure beyond understanding of a mere mortal, because I really am not seeing how waiting for 10 months to just to get an offer is otherwise making any sense. Unless you're independently rich, you'd have to work in the meantime. So, if you're not currently employed, considering Google as your next option is impossible - you need to apply for another job, and hold it for about a year while knowing you may have to quit at any moment, maybe next week, maybe in a year. Which I don't think is fair to the "substitute" employer. So, basically, to apply to Google you have to have a steady secure job first. Is that how it's supposed to work?
  • nisegami 4y ago
    My current employer takes ages to bring people on. More than one of my coworkers has a story like mine, where after already starting another job, we got the call that we'd been hired for current employer. In my case, I just took a day off to sign the new contract and then just never went back. Awful, but it is what it is.
  • saagarjha 4y ago
    You have a steady secure job and they give you an offer months from now that makes you want to leave.
• jedberg 4y ago
  The last time I saw this happen regularly was in Spring 2002. Tech had a big wave of layoffs after 9/11, and a lot of college hires got their offers and then had them rescinded before starting. Some of them even got their sign on bonuses. But the best story was the guy who got both his sign on bonus and full severance, and never showed up for a day of work. Between the bonus and severance, he ended up with almost a full year's salary, all up front. He decided to fly to the southern hemisphere to extend the ski season through August.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• tverbeure 4y ago
  Right before the dotcom bust, Alcatel had the Go USA program, where European employees could apply for US jobs. I applied and was in the process of relocating as well, but ultimately joined a different US company. The program was abruptly cancelled when the economy went south. There were stories about families who sold their house and everything, and discovered at the airport that their tickets has been cancelled.
• motbus3 4y ago
  It seems in UK your role can be put redundancy but you are not technically fired. It is the position that needs to be decided and they need to compensate you accordingly to the law. They chose you because most of the factors are time dependent, so as you had not start it was cheaper to cancel the contract. I think the worst part is that probably they knew about this 2 or 3 months ago but held the information because they "cannot" speak openly about layoffs because of inside trading rules and etc. For me, they should have told you that months earlier and compensate for, at least, the financial loss you had. And never send a notice to quit before having anything triple checked.you can condition your move to their speed in sending the contract and offer, out of any contracts, to start preparing for the change.
• stickfigure 4y ago
  I'm not sure why anyone hasn't brought up the elephant in the room. OP, you're now an unemployed male of draftable age living in Russia, which is doing poorly in a war with your neighbor. Depending on how the anticipated Ukranian spring offensive fares, extremely bad things could happen to you very soon. You already made yourself mobile. This would be a good time to take a six-month vacation anywhere outside Russia. Look for remote work after you cross the border.
  • comonoid 4y ago
    When I left Yandex (pre-pandemic), I was told that I can return with no conditions in 3 months. I believe it is a general practice as I had non-senior position and was considered an average performer. So, his situation is not as dire.
  • caskstrength 4y ago
    IT professionals are supposedly exempt from mobilization in Russia AFAIK.
    • aleksi 4y ago
      That’s generally not true. Only some companies have this «accreditation». Many of my IT friends were drafted.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  • attentive 4y ago
    yep, it's not even guaranteed to be allowed to leave russia at this point. And it'll only get worse.
• alberth 4y ago
  We’re had ~15 years of a booming global economy. Many people haven’t experienced economic slowdowns. While my heart goes out to this person, you have to look at this also from the companies perceptive - it’s way easier to “layoff” someone who hasn’t started their job yet vs. someone who’s been with the company for sometime. I’m not saying that makes it ok what happened. It’s just that during a slowing economy, there’s no good way to prevent innocent people from getting impacted.
• zac23or 4y ago
  It is difficult to have confidence in companies. In recent job changes, I did something different: I started at a new company before quitting my previous job. In the old 8 hours, in the new 4 hours a day. Both companies know this. It is, for me, the only way to change jobs today.
• EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 4y ago
  Bad risk management. Should have relocated to a hotel first, made it through the first three months, then think about relocating permanently. Why sell stuff, there are storage facilities everywhere.