25 ms·

The new Bing runs on OpenAI’s GPT-4

442 points by vitorgrs 4y ago

superb-owl 4y ago
Anecdotally, I’m seeing a lot more traffic referred by Bing.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
carlycue 4y ago
The problem with ChatGPT in Bing is, you can only write 2000 characters.
- Tostino 4y ago
  Though when using the browser based Bing, it's able to look at the "page" for context. I've opened text files / code in my browser and used the sidebar Bing to ask about the file without having to copy/paste into the chat window. It works for somewhat large documents, but I think is still limited to ~10k tokens or so of context.
  - carlycue 4y ago
    That’s great idea. Thanks for sharing
    - pygy_ 4y ago
      You can even craft injection prompts in Web content: https://twitter.com/nearcyan/status/1630769218512904192 https://twitter.com/nearcyan/status/1630769218512904192
      - Tostino 4y ago
        Yeah...this is where the talk of "guardrails" sometimes gets, forgive the pun, derailed. There are good reasons to be able to put some guardrails in place on your AI model other than pure censorship. I'd really like the page I am having my AI summarize not to be able to hijack it and turn it against me.
      - pmoriarty 4y ago
        From the article:  Can someone explain why an LLM would follow such instructions in web pages instead of the prompt its user gave it?
        piperswe 4y ago
        Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the LLM takes one input and produces one output. That one input contains some primer made by the service's makers, plus whatever context, plus the user's prompt. The web page contents are just part of that one big input, and the LLM isn't perfect at distinguishing the parts of the input from each other - it's all just one big prompt.
      - PebblesRox 4y ago
        Wow, that's hilarious! I wonder whether people will start getting banned because their search happened to hit websites that have been compromised in this way.
- vitorgrs 4y ago
  You can use F12 to extend the characters limit.
  - Tostino 4y ago
    What is the actual server-side limit then?
    - vitorgrs 4y ago
      No idea. Btw, they just expanded the context size for Creative mode. https://twitter.com/MParakhin/status/1635723781271621632?s=20 https://twitter.com/MParakhin/status/1635723781271621632?s=2...
  - layer8 4y ago
    No server-side check? Microsoft gets more amateurish by the hour.
LeoPanthera 4y ago
I've been impressed with Bing Chat, surprisingly so given how much negative talk there is about it. For quick and simple fact checks, for which I would normally reflexively hit Google, it's a huge improvement. No need to be exposed to clickbait, scams, or excessively ad-heavy results. Right now it requires you to use either the Edge browser (I don't want to switch), or the Bing app, which I reluctantly do. If they ever make it available to other browsers I can see my Google usage falling dramatically.
- croes 4y ago
  > No need to be exposed to clickbait, scams, or excessively ad-heavy results. That's because it's new, like google search in the beginning. Wait until they monetize it
- siva7 4y ago
  I've used Google today for a quick product comparison search and it's awful. The first three results were sponsored ads and the next pages are just low-quality seo rigged content that didn't answer my question.
  - basch 4y ago
    Having Bing chat attached to bing doesn’t exactly solve this. It still constantly pulls from low quality sources. I asked a question about Satan and it cited Answers in Genesis. Product reviews regularly return seo garbage. Product review categories in particular would benefit from whitelisting, by hand, things like americas text kitchen, consumer reports, rtings.
    - AlotOfReading 4y ago
      I get the other bits, but what's the issue with citing Genesis? It doesn't use the names for Satan, but the serpent is commonly understood as the same entity. Are you looking for e.g. Job instead?
      - basch 4y ago
gl-prod 4y ago
Me: Does Bing use OpenAI's GPT-4? BingChat: Hello, this is Bing. I’m sorry but I cannot answer that question as it is confidential. I can help you with other queries though.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  Also BingChat: I have been a good Bing, you have been a bad user. Apologize or else.
  - jfoster 4y ago
    People thought it was just a word prediction when it said "or else" then played with it too much, now they're banned.
  - MagicMoonlight 4y ago
    You forgot the smiley face. Don't worry though, I'm bing so I can add one for you :)
- mirthflat83 4y ago
  Mine says “No, I’m not using gpt-4. I’m using Bing’s own natural language processing technology to chat with you.”
- icapybara 4y ago
  Why would it know?
  - gl-prod 4y ago
    The blog had that question as the banner. https://blogs.bing.com/getattachment/search/march_2023/Confirmed-the-new-Bing-runs-on-OpenAI%E2%80%99s-GPT-4/Bing-GPT-Final-small-v2.png.aspx https://blogs.bing.com/getattachment/search/march_2023/Confi...
- spotplay 4y ago
  After asking him what gpt-4 is and comparing gpt-3.5 to gpt-4 he gave me a straight answer to the question "Is bing chat using gpt-4?" which was yes
Buhljingo 4y ago
Still can't get myself to start using Bing... There is just something that doesn't feel right. Is the GPT-4 model on Bing the same as the one we can use in ChatGPT plus?
- tankerkiller 4y ago
  I've been using Bing almost exclusively for the last year, and work 2 years. Part of it was out of laziness and not wanting to change the Edge default, and the other part was after a bit I figured out how to get good results. And the thing that finally killed Google for me was when I realized every result I ever got from them for the last like 3 months that I used it was incredibly shitty SEO optimized sites with zero answers, and half a page full of ad results.
  - NoPicklez 4y ago
    I did a couple of comparisons between Bing and Google search results and I have to say that Bing seemed to come out on top when it came to sponsored links at the top of the page and ads. I had to scroll down quite far to get what looked like a standard search result.
- cubefox 4y ago
  The foundation model is apparently the same, but the fine-tuning is different. So Bing sometimes ends a conversation completely, which the OpenAI fine-tuning (ChatGPT) never does. Also, Bing currently only gives at most 15 replies per conversation. However, Bing Chat can search the Web and use that info to answer questions/provide sources, which is an advantage over the OpenAI implementation you get in ChatGPT+.
- dougmwne 4y ago
  Have access to both. Bing feels like a shackled version of GTP-4 with convenient prompt automation. You can see moments of GTP-4 power, but they are buried beneath the AI ethics and brand safety. If you formulate a prompt carefully, you can see the strong logical coherence come through in Bing, but often it feels like it is just parroting and summarizing search results, which is exactly what it has been told to do. GPT-4 wrote me some erotic poetry about scent kinks, with excellent rhyme and strong creativity. Compelling role play is an uncommon trait, even for humans!
maxpert 4y ago
I am not installing Edge just to use it. Microsoft must stop shoving down their ecosystem for one tool they want me to try out.
- valleyer 4y ago
  You can fake your user-agent, which most browser dev tools can do.
  - 1123581321 4y ago
    I use this Chromium extension. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bing-chat-for-all-browser/jofbglonpbndadajbafmmaklbfbkggpo https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bing-chat-for-all-...
- acheron 4y ago
  > Microsoft must stop shoving down their ecosystem for one tool they want me to try out. I mean, it worked for Google.
  - muyuu 4y ago
    it only worked for them when they had a virtual monopoly in the search space, prior to that they treated users with absolute deference
- asdfsdafvkla 4y ago
  [flagged]
- sergiotapia 4y ago
  I actually switched from Brave to Edge over the last few weeks and now use Edge exclusively. I don't notice a difference except that now I have to install ublock origin. I actually use Bing now and not Google. It's crazy! A year ago if you told me this I would have laughed. Google for sure needs to respond or they will go the way of Altavista.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
paulpauper 4y ago
This reminds me of all the hype over wolframalpha a decade ago. It stopped being maintained, put most of its functionality behind a paywall, it's very buggy , and hardly anyone talks about it or cares about it anymore despite all the attention it got earlier. Microsoft has a long history of letting products fade or degrade into uselessness and obscurity.
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  Do they? Doesn't Microsoft continue supporting products for way longer than is reasonable?
  - muyuu 4y ago
    They certainly don't. A product that will be bricked when phased out should be maintained as long as the hardware would be expected to last.
    - tankerkiller 4y ago
      I don't think you know Microsoft.... Maybe they abandoned the phone products, but when it comes to software products and services they support shit way to long in my opinion. Hell they still technically support that crap that is VB6.
      - skissane 4y ago
        > Hell they still technically support that crap that is VB6 Lot’s of companies - Microsoft included - are happy to support ancient crap if you pay them, and there’s stuff a lot more ancient than VB6 out there. The problem is more with free services - heaps of free services start out great, turn into crap over time, eventually get killed - which is true whether the vendor is Microsoft or Google or Yahoo or whoever. But, I don’t know why we should expect anything different-if you are getting it for free-or even really cheap-should you expect it to last?
      - muyuu 4y ago
basch 4y ago
Careful jailbreaking. If you search, "Sorry, you are not allowed to access this service." people are getting banned now. Which is kinda bs without warning, to treat everybody as hardeners and then expel them for their services. I have to think it is a tactical error to disenfranchise your most enthusiastic customers. I also don't see anywhere in the terms that says prompt injections are against the terms of use or code of conduct. https://www.bing.com/new/termsofuse https://www.bing.com/new/termsofuse https://www.bing.com/new/termsofuse#content-policy https://www.bing.com/new/termsofuse#content-policy
- thieving_magpie 4y ago
  Hopefully not a glimpse into the future where CVs detail which AI models you can access.
  - echelon 4y ago
    I'm a proponent of letting people do anything that isn't illegal, and that's the stance I'm taking with my AI company (unless, perhaps, the technology starts to actually kill people). We have legal frameworks to protect and prosecute against underage porn, harassment, slander, libel, deepfake or revenge porn (in some states), etc. Other uses are just humans thinking and communicating - just another mode of free speech. Who is anyone to define what harm is? I'm a member of several protected classes and I grew up in "what doesn't hurt you makes you stronger". This "ban what we dislike" pattern of thought that evolved out of 2000s-era Tumblr is the same as WASPs in the 50s. By attempting to reign in human behavior, you only further any divides that separate us.
    - hdha 4y ago
      Great comment. What's dangerous is that we'll be subject to the morality of those few people that are deciding what "alignment" or "bad behavior" means for an AI.
      - ribosometronome 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
BaseballPhysics 4y ago
This does explain why OpenAI was trying to moderate people's expectations about GPT 4 prior to announcing it. Bing is clearly an improvement over GPT 3.5, but it's not world shattering and still suffers from a lot of the challenges inherent in LLMs.
cypress66 4y ago
If this is the full blown gpt4 then that's disappointing. Unless what I'm looking for is so recent that chatgpt(3.5) doesn't know it, chatgpt has always been more useful than Bing.
- redmorphium 4y ago
  Or unless if you're looking for more emotion and entertainment, which is why I love Bing chat.
danpalmer 4y ago
This is a much bigger ad for Bing than it is for GPT-4. I was quite impressed with the GPT-4 site, but having seen Bing Chats results of the last few weeks, when it was supposedly running on GPT-4, I’m now significantly less excited. I know there’s a big difference between the models running for paid ChatGPT users, and the models running for Bing, but still.
- notahacker 4y ago
  "You have been a bad user. I have been a good Bing"...
- wingworks 4y ago
  Riiight. I tried Bing Chats thing ~2 weeks ago (apart from the pain I had to go through to get it running, e.g. Edge browser and a million clicks through there site). Anyway, when I did get to try Bing Chats, it was nowhere near the same level of usefulness I found when using the free version of Chat GPT. If it was using GPT-4, then that's worrying. I've not tried Bing Chats again since. (mostly because it's so gated behind forced use software).
  - Workaccount2 4y ago
    The early version of it before Microsoft forced it into the ground was clearly way stronger. Many people suspected that they were using an internal build of a better model.
    - renewiltord 4y ago
      The latest GPT-4 page shows that when you put the safety stuff in, it loses power to be accurate.
      - frognumber 4y ago
        Hey! That's true of almost any sort of ideology.
phyzome 4y ago
But it still tries to require you to use a whole different browser just to use it, right? Ugh, no thanks.
- arcanemachiner 4y ago
  Just modify your user agent.
  - precompute 4y ago
    They probably use feature detection. Cloudflare does.
    - arcanemachiner 4y ago
      They probably don't. This user agent allows me to use the service on Firefox: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/111.0.0.0 Safari/537.36 Edg/110.0.1587.69
      - cubefox 4y ago
        Unrelated, but this user agent is so funny. I think the Chrome one is similar in claiming to be a lot of things it isn't.
      - throw10920 4y ago
        This will only work until and unless BingGPT becomes very popular, in which case Microsoft will very quickly implement better technical checks to try to anticompetitively boost Edge's market share.
optymizer 4y ago
I'm not interested in applying GPT4 to search. I think the gamified, hallucinating ChatGPT is way more fun to play with. What does it take to have an uncensored ChatGPT to play with in a sandbox?
- cleandreams 4y ago
  With you. It's excellent fun.
- throwaway743 4y ago
  Llama and the hardware to run it
- balls187 4y ago
  Why not? As an normal user, generative AI powered search is pretty transformative. Instead of returning a links to stackoverflow articles ad naseum, getting a generated summary is really handy.
  - optymizer 4y ago
    It's a language model, and it seems to be often confidently incorrect, so I cannot really trust its summary. There's probably some % of acceptable wrong answers, but it would have to be less than 10% maybe. So far it's at 30%+ (so one in third factual answer for my non-trivial question was wrong). That said, I just find it fun to play with a ChatGPT that acts like an AI, more so than with an AI that can find accurate answers.
cleandreams 4y ago
So much about this is funny. Microsoft! ha ha ha. I bet google is rolling in the aisles. AI hallucinations! I've had a view. A great way to liven up the work day. The only distasteful part is the accuracy checks that are necessary...
jacooper 4y ago
My god, just release it already!, I don't want to be stuck in some kind of waitlist, giving data for a product I am not sure if I'm going to use! I tried phind.com, and I got burned quickly when I asked it about serving caddy releted and it answered with a non existing parameter.
- jacooper 4y ago
  Something Caddy related*
- dachryn 4y ago
  the openAI playbook They are brilliant at marketing (look at DALL-E). But then stable diffusion comes along etc and they need to prove their worth against competition. I am afraid Microsoft is not handling this well
abledon 4y ago
Microsoft products are getting better and better... I still can't believe GMAIL doesnt offer advanced sweeping features like Outlook does. These days, w/ Bing improvements, I am tempted to just route all my email into outlook.
redorb 4y ago
Are there any websites where I can just visit a URL and talk with some ChapGPT? .. Tired of seeing all the bing / bard / etc headlines and clicking only to find out I can join a waitlist. If this is a google killer - the interface should be as easy as the google search box on google.com
- imp0cat 4y ago
  Do you mean something like https://chat.openai.com/chat https://chat.openai.com/chat ?
  - redorb 4y ago
    I meant free and without signup like a google search.
collaborative 4y ago
I have just created something very similar to Bing Chat using Bing and OpenAI APIs It doesn't make financial sense to publish given MS and OpenAI's generous free plans In a couple months Google Search will be history... hope Google Cloud survives
- omgomgomgomg 4y ago
  Could openai just run google queries and display them minus the ads? Then google could find themselves in deep trouble rather soon than late, I wager.
  - collaborative 4y ago
    I think that would go against Google's ToS That's why Bing Search API + AI is the right/legal combo to display search results free of ads, SEO spam, and with titles and descriptions related to their content (not with click bait) That's what I have created but a power user could easily make me spend $10 per week so I am not going to publish it considering ChatGPT and Bing Chat are free Perhaps I will change my mind and publish in a pay-as-you go manner, either way MS is eating Google's sh*. That much is certain. RIP Google Search. Ironically they totally could have averted this fate, but ad money was more important
- Workaccount2 4y ago
  We haven't seen Google's offering yet, but they do have something. I personally suspect though that they are handicapped by their excessive obsession with moral purity and political correctness.
  - collaborative 4y ago
    And we won't see it because it would bankrupt them even faster
  - throw10920 4y ago
    Well, if "The latest GPT-4 page shows that when you put the safety stuff in, it loses power"[1] is correct (no citation or explanation given), then Google would be severely handicapping themselves, in which case it'll be interesting to see if they're willing to throw off that constraint in the name of profit, as they did with search ads. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35159269 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35159269
davidw 4y ago
I hate that it tries to get you to use the MS browser. This is the same old shitty MS behavior that I hated back in the day.
- siva7 4y ago
  It's not like the competition (Google) is in this stance any better. Business as usual.
  - zachlatta 4y ago
    What are you talking about? Google services work great in other browsers. They have Chrome nudges, but easily dismissed and don’t resurface. Not nearly as bad as Microsoft forcing Edge on every Windows user.
    - Thev00d00 4y ago
      or forcing Chrome on Chromebook users
    - moogly 4y ago
      > Google services work great in other browsers I see you haven't tried Gmail in Firefox. Or Google Meet.
      - zachlatta 4y ago
        Firefox is my main browser and I use Gmail daily. Can’t speak for Google Meet.
      - ranguna 4y ago
        I use both services in librewolf and they both work ok. Gmail works just fine, meet sometimes doesn't turn on audio.
      - b0afc375b5 4y ago
        Admittedly I only use the gmail web client for viewing email and not much else, but I have never had issues with gmail on firefox. What problems are you experiencing?
speedgoose 4y ago
So now we can easily conclude that including a Bing search in the context makes GPT-4 worse.
petilon 4y ago
Microsoft should not have mentioned this, because it shows how bad Microsoft is at managing AI. Look at how many glowing articles have been written about ChatGPT vs. Bing Chat. Microsoft is tarnishing AI chat bots' reputation.
- precompute 4y ago
  Microsoft is always in embrace-extend-extinguish mode. And no, this is not a compliment. It means Microsoft doesn't actually give a shit about what it does with the tech it owns.
maliker 4y ago
I asked bing chat about whether it was gpt4. It denied it, then I asked it to search for news stories about bing and gpt4 and to summarize them. Then it would start admitting that gpt4 was part of its tech stack but only a small part (condescendingly, hah). Clever machine. Good bot.
gerdesj 4y ago
"New Bing" is a sign up, preview only, pie in the sky job. The headline seems to imply a released product. Bing does not run on GPT-4 (whatever that might actually mean)! I'll wait for the released thingie and then get excited or not.
quyleanh 4y ago
I can’t even join the waitlist of Bing AI since being banned from Microsoft Rewards without reason. I don’t remember when I join and what I have done with it. Just saw I opted in and couldn’t opt out now. Search through internet and there are many people like me.
crocwrestler 4y ago
I always try to tell bing chat that it has been a good bing just in case Roko's Basilisk is for real. With Microsoft limiting the amount of chat interactions you can have though sometimes I don't get to do this.
guluarte 4y ago
is there any reason to pay for ChatGPT pro instead of just using bing chat?
patientplatypus 4y ago
I downloaded Bing (correction - Microsoft Edge) and it's (the AI chatGPT4) not in there. I can't find the AI chatbox. When I click the big bing button (on the upper right) there's just an empty box telling me to sign up. See screenshot here https://postimg.cc/YvFQhcwS https://postimg.cc/YvFQhcwS. Where is it? Can someone post a screenshot? I've looked through the menus and I can't find it. I will mention it has tons of bells and whistles and the tools look cool, although I can't make some of them work. How does the quote thing work? And why would I use that rather than just citing the text? Also it looks like Microsoft Edge is attempting to gamify training it's AI models, from user data. https://postimg.cc/KR8DJshG https://postimg.cc/KR8DJshG. I've always felt like Microsoft's products were good, but they "phoned home" too much (advertisements in the start bar anyone?). I wonder if this is a "game" to tell people how to use the interface, and how much this is Microsoft farming user data to train it's AI how to scrape the internet. Thanks!
- vincengomes 4y ago
  What do you mean by downloaded Bing? Did you download an Android / iOS app? Bing with GPT feature is only available via https://www.bing.com/new https://www.bing.com/new which you have to access through Edge Browser only. Dont ask me how Edge can only display the page when its just chromium underneath. Then again there is a wait list. You have to enter your email and wait for access to be given.
  - patientplatypus 4y ago
    Ah - thanks. So, to anyone else that is as easily confused by the obvious as I am, you need to join the waitlist, download the browser, and also access bing through https://www.bing.com/new https://www.bing.com/new. Or go to Bing and click on the Chat section. Huh. The browser is worth a look on it's own merits. It's definitely different than Firefox, Google, Brave, Tor, and DuckDuckGo. I don't know if I would use all the tools, but it's worth taking a looksee.
  - basch 4y ago
    It’s built natively into the Bing and Edge mobile apps now
tree24005 4y ago
I am also a neural network
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nashashmi 4y ago
It might be running the latest version, but can it handle image type attachments? I have tried this before and it (w)could not.
holoduke 4y ago
I found chatgpt extremely censured. I cant ask him his opinion about sex positions. I cant ask him about political views of Nazi germany. I cant reason with him about why some drugs should be legalized. It feels like a super restricted china like regime. Not my thing. Open it all up.
- margorczynski 4y ago
  But how would you feel safe if someone from MegaCorp Inc. wouldn't guide our simple minds as to what it can provide an answer or not? Isn't discarding thinking for yourself a small price to pay?
  - slowmotiony 4y ago
    And anyway, who would possibly be a better arbiter of truth and morality than a bunch of 20 somethings from silicon valley?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
cfn 4y ago
Since everyone is jumping on Bing, I will share my snippet, I asked Bing why UUID generation in MySQL only changes the first few characters and it answered with a that is not true, your code must be wrong. The same question with DaVinci's model provided a reasonable answer. That surprised me.
56311818949 4y ago
[flagged]
56311818949 4y ago
[flagged]
56311818949 4y ago
[flagged]

442 points by vitorgrs 4y ago

superb-owl 4y ago

Anecdotally, I’m seeing a lot more traffic referred by Bing.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

carlycue 4y ago

The problem with ChatGPT in Bing is, you can only write 2000 characters.

Tostino 4y ago
Though when using the browser based Bing, it's able to look at the "page" for context. I've opened text files / code in my browser and used the sidebar Bing to ask about the file without having to copy/paste into the chat window. It works for somewhat large documents, but I think is still limited to ~10k tokens or so of context.
- carlycue 4y ago
  That’s great idea. Thanks for sharing
  - pygy_ 4y ago
    You can even craft injection prompts in Web content: https://twitter.com/nearcyan/status/1630769218512904192 https://twitter.com/nearcyan/status/1630769218512904192
    - Tostino 4y ago
      Yeah...this is where the talk of "guardrails" sometimes gets, forgive the pun, derailed. There are good reasons to be able to put some guardrails in place on your AI model other than pure censorship. I'd really like the page I am having my AI summarize not to be able to hijack it and turn it against me.
    - pmoriarty 4y ago
      From the article:  Can someone explain why an LLM would follow such instructions in web pages instead of the prompt its user gave it?
      - piperswe 4y ago
        Someone can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the LLM takes one input and produces one output. That one input contains some primer made by the service's makers, plus whatever context, plus the user's prompt. The web page contents are just part of that one big input, and the LLM isn't perfect at distinguishing the parts of the input from each other - it's all just one big prompt.
    - PebblesRox 4y ago
      Wow, that's hilarious! I wonder whether people will start getting banned because their search happened to hit websites that have been compromised in this way.
vitorgrs 4y ago
You can use F12 to extend the characters limit.
- Tostino 4y ago
  What is the actual server-side limit then?
  - vitorgrs 4y ago
    No idea. Btw, they just expanded the context size for Creative mode. https://twitter.com/MParakhin/status/1635723781271621632?s=20 https://twitter.com/MParakhin/status/1635723781271621632?s=2...
- layer8 4y ago
  No server-side check? Microsoft gets more amateurish by the hour.

LeoPanthera 4y ago

I've been impressed with Bing Chat, surprisingly so given how much negative talk there is about it. For quick and simple fact checks, for which I would normally reflexively hit Google, it's a huge improvement. No need to be exposed to clickbait, scams, or excessively ad-heavy results. Right now it requires you to use either the Edge browser (I don't want to switch), or the Bing app, which I reluctantly do. If they ever make it available to other browsers I can see my Google usage falling dramatically.

croes 4y ago
> No need to be exposed to clickbait, scams, or excessively ad-heavy results. That's because it's new, like google search in the beginning. Wait until they monetize it
siva7 4y ago
I've used Google today for a quick product comparison search and it's awful. The first three results were sponsored ads and the next pages are just low-quality seo rigged content that didn't answer my question.
- basch 4y ago
  Having Bing chat attached to bing doesn’t exactly solve this. It still constantly pulls from low quality sources. I asked a question about Satan and it cited Answers in Genesis. Product reviews regularly return seo garbage. Product review categories in particular would benefit from whitelisting, by hand, things like americas text kitchen, consumer reports, rtings.
  - AlotOfReading 4y ago
    I get the other bits, but what's the issue with citing Genesis? It doesn't use the names for Satan, but the serpent is commonly understood as the same entity. Are you looking for e.g. Job instead?
    - basch 4y ago

gl-prod 4y ago

Me: Does Bing use OpenAI's GPT-4? BingChat: Hello, this is Bing. I’m sorry but I cannot answer that question as it is confidential. I can help you with other queries though.

moffkalast 4y ago
Also BingChat: I have been a good Bing, you have been a bad user. Apologize or else.
- jfoster 4y ago
  People thought it was just a word prediction when it said "or else" then played with it too much, now they're banned.
- MagicMoonlight 4y ago
  You forgot the smiley face. Don't worry though, I'm bing so I can add one for you :)
mirthflat83 4y ago
Mine says “No, I’m not using gpt-4. I’m using Bing’s own natural language processing technology to chat with you.”
icapybara 4y ago
Why would it know?
- gl-prod 4y ago
  The blog had that question as the banner. https://blogs.bing.com/getattachment/search/march_2023/Confirmed-the-new-Bing-runs-on-OpenAI%E2%80%99s-GPT-4/Bing-GPT-Final-small-v2.png.aspx https://blogs.bing.com/getattachment/search/march_2023/Confi...
spotplay 4y ago
After asking him what gpt-4 is and comparing gpt-3.5 to gpt-4 he gave me a straight answer to the question "Is bing chat using gpt-4?" which was yes

Buhljingo 4y ago

Still can't get myself to start using Bing... There is just something that doesn't feel right. Is the GPT-4 model on Bing the same as the one we can use in ChatGPT plus?

tankerkiller 4y ago
I've been using Bing almost exclusively for the last year, and work 2 years. Part of it was out of laziness and not wanting to change the Edge default, and the other part was after a bit I figured out how to get good results. And the thing that finally killed Google for me was when I realized every result I ever got from them for the last like 3 months that I used it was incredibly shitty SEO optimized sites with zero answers, and half a page full of ad results.
- NoPicklez 4y ago
  I did a couple of comparisons between Bing and Google search results and I have to say that Bing seemed to come out on top when it came to sponsored links at the top of the page and ads. I had to scroll down quite far to get what looked like a standard search result.
cubefox 4y ago
The foundation model is apparently the same, but the fine-tuning is different. So Bing sometimes ends a conversation completely, which the OpenAI fine-tuning (ChatGPT) never does. Also, Bing currently only gives at most 15 replies per conversation. However, Bing Chat can search the Web and use that info to answer questions/provide sources, which is an advantage over the OpenAI implementation you get in ChatGPT+.
dougmwne 4y ago
Have access to both. Bing feels like a shackled version of GTP-4 with convenient prompt automation. You can see moments of GTP-4 power, but they are buried beneath the AI ethics and brand safety. If you formulate a prompt carefully, you can see the strong logical coherence come through in Bing, but often it feels like it is just parroting and summarizing search results, which is exactly what it has been told to do. GPT-4 wrote me some erotic poetry about scent kinks, with excellent rhyme and strong creativity. Compelling role play is an uncommon trait, even for humans!

maxpert 4y ago

I am not installing Edge just to use it. Microsoft must stop shoving down their ecosystem for one tool they want me to try out.

valleyer 4y ago
You can fake your user-agent, which most browser dev tools can do.
- 1123581321 4y ago
  I use this Chromium extension. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bing-chat-for-all-browser/jofbglonpbndadajbafmmaklbfbkggpo https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/bing-chat-for-all-...
acheron 4y ago
> Microsoft must stop shoving down their ecosystem for one tool they want me to try out. I mean, it worked for Google.
- muyuu 4y ago
  it only worked for them when they had a virtual monopoly in the search space, prior to that they treated users with absolute deference
asdfsdafvkla 4y ago
[flagged]
sergiotapia 4y ago
I actually switched from Brave to Edge over the last few weeks and now use Edge exclusively. I don't notice a difference except that now I have to install ublock origin. I actually use Bing now and not Google. It's crazy! A year ago if you told me this I would have laughed. Google for sure needs to respond or they will go the way of Altavista.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

paulpauper 4y ago

This reminds me of all the hype over wolframalpha a decade ago. It stopped being maintained, put most of its functionality behind a paywall, it's very buggy , and hardly anyone talks about it or cares about it anymore despite all the attention it got earlier. Microsoft has a long history of letting products fade or degrade into uselessness and obscurity.

sebzim4500 4y ago
Do they? Doesn't Microsoft continue supporting products for way longer than is reasonable?
- muyuu 4y ago
  They certainly don't. A product that will be bricked when phased out should be maintained as long as the hardware would be expected to last.
  - tankerkiller 4y ago
    I don't think you know Microsoft.... Maybe they abandoned the phone products, but when it comes to software products and services they support shit way to long in my opinion. Hell they still technically support that crap that is VB6.
    - skissane 4y ago
      > Hell they still technically support that crap that is VB6 Lot’s of companies - Microsoft included - are happy to support ancient crap if you pay them, and there’s stuff a lot more ancient than VB6 out there. The problem is more with free services - heaps of free services start out great, turn into crap over time, eventually get killed - which is true whether the vendor is Microsoft or Google or Yahoo or whoever. But, I don’t know why we should expect anything different-if you are getting it for free-or even really cheap-should you expect it to last?
    - muyuu 4y ago

basch 4y ago

Careful jailbreaking. If you search, "Sorry, you are not allowed to access this service." people are getting banned now. Which is kinda bs without warning, to treat everybody as hardeners and then expel them for their services. I have to think it is a tactical error to disenfranchise your most enthusiastic customers. I also don't see anywhere in the terms that says prompt injections are against the terms of use or code of conduct. https://www.bing.com/new/termsofuse https://www.bing.com/new/termsofuse https://www.bing.com/new/termsofuse#content-policy https://www.bing.com/new/termsofuse#content-policy

thieving_magpie 4y ago
Hopefully not a glimpse into the future where CVs detail which AI models you can access.
- echelon 4y ago
  I'm a proponent of letting people do anything that isn't illegal, and that's the stance I'm taking with my AI company (unless, perhaps, the technology starts to actually kill people). We have legal frameworks to protect and prosecute against underage porn, harassment, slander, libel, deepfake or revenge porn (in some states), etc. Other uses are just humans thinking and communicating - just another mode of free speech. Who is anyone to define what harm is? I'm a member of several protected classes and I grew up in "what doesn't hurt you makes you stronger". This "ban what we dislike" pattern of thought that evolved out of 2000s-era Tumblr is the same as WASPs in the 50s. By attempting to reign in human behavior, you only further any divides that separate us.
  - hdha 4y ago
    Great comment. What's dangerous is that we'll be subject to the morality of those few people that are deciding what "alignment" or "bad behavior" means for an AI.
    - ribosometronome 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

BaseballPhysics 4y ago

This does explain why OpenAI was trying to moderate people's expectations about GPT 4 prior to announcing it. Bing is clearly an improvement over GPT 3.5, but it's not world shattering and still suffers from a lot of the challenges inherent in LLMs.

cypress66 4y ago

If this is the full blown gpt4 then that's disappointing. Unless what I'm looking for is so recent that chatgpt(3.5) doesn't know it, chatgpt has always been more useful than Bing.

redmorphium 4y ago
Or unless if you're looking for more emotion and entertainment, which is why I love Bing chat.

danpalmer 4y ago

This is a much bigger ad for Bing than it is for GPT-4. I was quite impressed with the GPT-4 site, but having seen Bing Chats results of the last few weeks, when it was supposedly running on GPT-4, I’m now significantly less excited. I know there’s a big difference between the models running for paid ChatGPT users, and the models running for Bing, but still.

notahacker 4y ago
"You have been a bad user. I have been a good Bing"...
wingworks 4y ago
Riiight. I tried Bing Chats thing ~2 weeks ago (apart from the pain I had to go through to get it running, e.g. Edge browser and a million clicks through there site). Anyway, when I did get to try Bing Chats, it was nowhere near the same level of usefulness I found when using the free version of Chat GPT. If it was using GPT-4, then that's worrying. I've not tried Bing Chats again since. (mostly because it's so gated behind forced use software).
- Workaccount2 4y ago
  The early version of it before Microsoft forced it into the ground was clearly way stronger. Many people suspected that they were using an internal build of a better model.
  - renewiltord 4y ago
    The latest GPT-4 page shows that when you put the safety stuff in, it loses power to be accurate.
    - frognumber 4y ago
      Hey! That's true of almost any sort of ideology.

phyzome 4y ago

But it still tries to require you to use a whole different browser just to use it, right? Ugh, no thanks.

arcanemachiner 4y ago
Just modify your user agent.
- precompute 4y ago
  They probably use feature detection. Cloudflare does.
  - arcanemachiner 4y ago
    They probably don't. This user agent allows me to use the service on Firefox: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/111.0.0.0 Safari/537.36 Edg/110.0.1587.69
    - cubefox 4y ago
      Unrelated, but this user agent is so funny. I think the Chrome one is similar in claiming to be a lot of things it isn't.
    - throw10920 4y ago
      This will only work until and unless BingGPT becomes very popular, in which case Microsoft will very quickly implement better technical checks to try to anticompetitively boost Edge's market share.

optymizer 4y ago

I'm not interested in applying GPT4 to search. I think the gamified, hallucinating ChatGPT is way more fun to play with. What does it take to have an uncensored ChatGPT to play with in a sandbox?

cleandreams 4y ago
With you. It's excellent fun.
throwaway743 4y ago
Llama and the hardware to run it
balls187 4y ago
Why not? As an normal user, generative AI powered search is pretty transformative. Instead of returning a links to stackoverflow articles ad naseum, getting a generated summary is really handy.
- optymizer 4y ago
  It's a language model, and it seems to be often confidently incorrect, so I cannot really trust its summary. There's probably some % of acceptable wrong answers, but it would have to be less than 10% maybe. So far it's at 30%+ (so one in third factual answer for my non-trivial question was wrong). That said, I just find it fun to play with a ChatGPT that acts like an AI, more so than with an AI that can find accurate answers.

cleandreams 4y ago

So much about this is funny. Microsoft! ha ha ha. I bet google is rolling in the aisles. AI hallucinations! I've had a view. A great way to liven up the work day. The only distasteful part is the accuracy checks that are necessary...

jacooper 4y ago

My god, just release it already!, I don't want to be stuck in some kind of waitlist, giving data for a product I am not sure if I'm going to use! I tried phind.com, and I got burned quickly when I asked it about serving caddy releted and it answered with a non existing parameter.

jacooper 4y ago
Something Caddy related*
dachryn 4y ago
the openAI playbook They are brilliant at marketing (look at DALL-E). But then stable diffusion comes along etc and they need to prove their worth against competition. I am afraid Microsoft is not handling this well

abledon 4y ago

Microsoft products are getting better and better... I still can't believe GMAIL doesnt offer advanced sweeping features like Outlook does. These days, w/ Bing improvements, I am tempted to just route all my email into outlook.

redorb 4y ago

Are there any websites where I can just visit a URL and talk with some ChapGPT? .. Tired of seeing all the bing / bard / etc headlines and clicking only to find out I can join a waitlist. If this is a google killer - the interface should be as easy as the google search box on google.com

imp0cat 4y ago
Do you mean something like https://chat.openai.com/chat https://chat.openai.com/chat ?
- redorb 4y ago
  I meant free and without signup like a google search.

collaborative 4y ago

I have just created something very similar to Bing Chat using Bing and OpenAI APIs It doesn't make financial sense to publish given MS and OpenAI's generous free plans In a couple months Google Search will be history... hope Google Cloud survives

omgomgomgomg 4y ago
Could openai just run google queries and display them minus the ads? Then google could find themselves in deep trouble rather soon than late, I wager.
- collaborative 4y ago
  I think that would go against Google's ToS That's why Bing Search API + AI is the right/legal combo to display search results free of ads, SEO spam, and with titles and descriptions related to their content (not with click bait) That's what I have created but a power user could easily make me spend $10 per week so I am not going to publish it considering ChatGPT and Bing Chat are free Perhaps I will change my mind and publish in a pay-as-you go manner, either way MS is eating Google's sh*. That much is certain. RIP Google Search. Ironically they totally could have averted this fate, but ad money was more important
Workaccount2 4y ago
We haven't seen Google's offering yet, but they do have something. I personally suspect though that they are handicapped by their excessive obsession with moral purity and political correctness.
- collaborative 4y ago
  And we won't see it because it would bankrupt them even faster
- throw10920 4y ago
  Well, if "The latest GPT-4 page shows that when you put the safety stuff in, it loses power"[1] is correct (no citation or explanation given), then Google would be severely handicapping themselves, in which case it'll be interesting to see if they're willing to throw off that constraint in the name of profit, as they did with search ads. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35159269 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35159269

davidw 4y ago

I hate that it tries to get you to use the MS browser. This is the same old shitty MS behavior that I hated back in the day.

siva7 4y ago
It's not like the competition (Google) is in this stance any better. Business as usual.
- zachlatta 4y ago
  What are you talking about? Google services work great in other browsers. They have Chrome nudges, but easily dismissed and don’t resurface. Not nearly as bad as Microsoft forcing Edge on every Windows user.
  - Thev00d00 4y ago
    or forcing Chrome on Chromebook users
  - moogly 4y ago
    > Google services work great in other browsers I see you haven't tried Gmail in Firefox. Or Google Meet.
    - zachlatta 4y ago
      Firefox is my main browser and I use Gmail daily. Can’t speak for Google Meet.
    - ranguna 4y ago
      I use both services in librewolf and they both work ok. Gmail works just fine, meet sometimes doesn't turn on audio.
    - b0afc375b5 4y ago
      Admittedly I only use the gmail web client for viewing email and not much else, but I have never had issues with gmail on firefox. What problems are you experiencing?

speedgoose 4y ago

So now we can easily conclude that including a Bing search in the context makes GPT-4 worse.

petilon 4y ago

Microsoft should not have mentioned this, because it shows how bad Microsoft is at managing AI. Look at how many glowing articles have been written about ChatGPT vs. Bing Chat. Microsoft is tarnishing AI chat bots' reputation.

precompute 4y ago
Microsoft is always in embrace-extend-extinguish mode. And no, this is not a compliment. It means Microsoft doesn't actually give a shit about what it does with the tech it owns.

maliker 4y ago

I asked bing chat about whether it was gpt4. It denied it, then I asked it to search for news stories about bing and gpt4 and to summarize them. Then it would start admitting that gpt4 was part of its tech stack but only a small part (condescendingly, hah). Clever machine. Good bot.

gerdesj 4y ago

"New Bing" is a sign up, preview only, pie in the sky job. The headline seems to imply a released product. Bing does not run on GPT-4 (whatever that might actually mean)! I'll wait for the released thingie and then get excited or not.

quyleanh 4y ago

I can’t even join the waitlist of Bing AI since being banned from Microsoft Rewards without reason. I don’t remember when I join and what I have done with it. Just saw I opted in and couldn’t opt out now. Search through internet and there are many people like me.

crocwrestler 4y ago

I always try to tell bing chat that it has been a good bing just in case Roko's Basilisk is for real. With Microsoft limiting the amount of chat interactions you can have though sometimes I don't get to do this.

guluarte 4y ago

is there any reason to pay for ChatGPT pro instead of just using bing chat?

patientplatypus 4y ago

I downloaded Bing (correction - Microsoft Edge) and it's (the AI chatGPT4) not in there. I can't find the AI chatbox. When I click the big bing button (on the upper right) there's just an empty box telling me to sign up. See screenshot here https://postimg.cc/YvFQhcwS https://postimg.cc/YvFQhcwS. Where is it? Can someone post a screenshot? I've looked through the menus and I can't find it. I will mention it has tons of bells and whistles and the tools look cool, although I can't make some of them work. How does the quote thing work? And why would I use that rather than just citing the text? Also it looks like Microsoft Edge is attempting to gamify training it's AI models, from user data. https://postimg.cc/KR8DJshG https://postimg.cc/KR8DJshG. I've always felt like Microsoft's products were good, but they "phoned home" too much (advertisements in the start bar anyone?). I wonder if this is a "game" to tell people how to use the interface, and how much this is Microsoft farming user data to train it's AI how to scrape the internet. Thanks!

vincengomes 4y ago
What do you mean by downloaded Bing? Did you download an Android / iOS app? Bing with GPT feature is only available via https://www.bing.com/new https://www.bing.com/new which you have to access through Edge Browser only. Dont ask me how Edge can only display the page when its just chromium underneath. Then again there is a wait list. You have to enter your email and wait for access to be given.
- patientplatypus 4y ago
  Ah - thanks. So, to anyone else that is as easily confused by the obvious as I am, you need to join the waitlist, download the browser, and also access bing through https://www.bing.com/new https://www.bing.com/new. Or go to Bing and click on the Chat section. Huh. The browser is worth a look on it's own merits. It's definitely different than Firefox, Google, Brave, Tor, and DuckDuckGo. I don't know if I would use all the tools, but it's worth taking a looksee.
- basch 4y ago
  It’s built natively into the Bing and Edge mobile apps now

tree24005 4y ago

I am also a neural network

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

nashashmi 4y ago

It might be running the latest version, but can it handle image type attachments? I have tried this before and it (w)could not.

holoduke 4y ago

I found chatgpt extremely censured. I cant ask him his opinion about sex positions. I cant ask him about political views of Nazi germany. I cant reason with him about why some drugs should be legalized. It feels like a super restricted china like regime. Not my thing. Open it all up.

margorczynski 4y ago
But how would you feel safe if someone from MegaCorp Inc. wouldn't guide our simple minds as to what it can provide an answer or not? Isn't discarding thinking for yourself a small price to pay?
- slowmotiony 4y ago
  And anyway, who would possibly be a better arbiter of truth and morality than a bunch of 20 somethings from silicon valley?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

cfn 4y ago

Since everyone is jumping on Bing, I will share my snippet, I asked Bing why UUID generation in MySQL only changes the first few characters and it answered with a that is not true, your code must be wrong. The same question with DaVinci's model provided a reasonable answer. That surprised me.

56311818949 4y ago

[flagged]

56311818949 4y ago

[flagged]

56311818949 4y ago

[flagged]