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Bipartisan Legislation to Ban TikTok
- MuffinFlavored 4y agoSomebody more in the know, will this actually pass?
- curiousllama 4y agoAlmost certainly not, at least in this iteration - but Meta's stock is up ~6%, so it's not nothing
- mnd999 4y agoThey should extend to Instagram, Facebook, Twitter etc. unless they’re prepared to be open and interoperable.
- dylan604 4y agoThis makes me wonder how much Meta is financing any lobbying effort to get this passed?
- curiousllama 4y agoProbably a lot, but it's also not an absurd policy direction. Folks from all over have floated the vague notion that Tiktok is bad, independent of Meta. Rs tried to do it a few years ago, but implementation as a disaster. I'd imagine the lobbying effort would be less "briefcase full of cash" and more "can we hire smart people to think through policy mechanisms, in a way that's productive for both Rs & Ds" Though there's probably also a couple briefcases lmao
- dylan604 4y ago>but it's also not an absurd policy direction. It is when you forget where the collected data ends up, and just focus on the hoovering of the data. FB is the OG of this realm, but because they are US based instead of Chinese based, they get a pass? In the evils of data hoovering, I'm much more perturbed what theZuck knows about me much more than caring what winnie the pooh knows about me. All politics are local. If I lived in Beijing, then I'd have those concerns flipped.
- nephanth 4y agoI imagine this kind of dialogue "Hey, you like jobs right? They get you elected and all. Well if you ban tiktok we'll make some jobs, watcha think?"
- dylan604 4y agoHuh? How does banning tiktok make jobs? Are you assuming a US based company will spring up with a clone? You really believe that? Isn't it much more likely Meta will use it's power to gobble up any upstart to avoid the competition?
- nephanth 4y agoI mean Meta could argue that getting a bigger part of the cake would allow them to make more jobs
- dylan604 4y agoBut Meta already has people employed now building their version of tiktok. How many more jobs would Meta need if there was an influx of users because of no tiktok? The recent round of layoffs implies they think they can do it with fewer and not more. Just playing the tape all the way to the end.
- amelius 4y agoAnd lose access to the Chinese market?
- Jensson 4y agoMeta doesn't operate in China.
- KaoruAoiShiho 4y agoMeta makes about $5 billion a year from China.
- AlexandrB 4y agoIf they are, this could backfire spectacularly. Planting the idea that social media can be manipulated by the owners to persuade a population moves social media closer to traditional media companies and further away from mere "platforms" eligible for section 230 protection.
- dylan604 4y agoOnly the evilEmpire would do something untoward with that data. You can trust a US company implicitly. /s
- gradys 4y agoMuch of the market is up, presumably because of the good CPI report.
- FollowingTheDao 4y agoThe market is flat now, with Meta still up 4%.
- googlryas 4y agoI see teenagers overthrowing the US government as more likely than this bill passing. Cats out of the bag - the only possible course is mandating the physical location of the data and preventing it's transmission to china...but good luck with that.
- kelseyfrog 4y agoIf the bill passes, we might get both.
- brewdad 4y agoThe kids will be on a new app by the end of the week.
- rootusrootus 4y agoNot a chance. This is the time of the election cycle when all sorts of weird shit gets proposed with no consequences. It's theater.
- batter 4y agoWell, I would rather follow the money. Ad budgets for the next year might consider this possibility and TikTok revenue will suffer.
- MuffinFlavored 4y agoKind of a tangent question but what's worst case scenario on what TikTok can do with the level of data they have? Let's say I'm the average TikTok user and I grant it all permissions on my phone that the iOS app store approval process has allowed them to do. How... predatory are those? They know who I am, where I live, who my friends are, where I go, my "habits/interests". Worst case scenario my job, my wealth level. What can China/the Chinese government/Bytedance go with this information that is so "scary"? Say Meta + Bytedance have the same information on me. One company is American, one company is Chinese. Why is the Chinese one having that level of information bad? Can China force Bytedance to do something with the app's algorithm to influence millions of people to think a certain way? Are people just puppets that don't think for themselves? It's ok if Meta influences us but not Bytedance? Why are we assuming we're easily influenced and need to be protected from... ourselves?
- Finnucane 4y agoWait till they find out about IoT stuff from China that phones home.
- junaru 4y agoWish rest of the world did same for FANG.
- texaslonghorn5 4y agoone must admire the cleverness of getting the bill to read "anti-social"
- mrtksn 4y agoWhy not regulate how the data is used or stored, like the EU does, but ban? I'm really hoping this doesn't become a reality because if it does, we will end up with partitioned internet and stagnation. People often forget that the US companies are foreign entity for most of the worlds population and with the WikiLeaks revelations we know for a fact that the US government has access to the data of American tech companies.
- varispeed 4y agoState run apps that are designed to "nudge" and manipulate population at a large scale, should be classified as weapons and banned. This is not a regular app, but part of information warfare China is engaged in with the West.
- zolosa 4y agoHope the third world countries understand this and ban Twitter and Meta apps.
- mrtksn 4y agoThe US is known for involvement in the policies of other nations and even organising coups etc. With documented access of the American government into the American tech giants, I don't have reason to believe that Instagram is any different than TikTok. What makes you think that CIA didn't infiltrate Meta or made a deal to manipulate political situation in its friends and foes? What makes you believe that they won't work with Musk to achieve their goals? The TikTok situation is new for the USA but it's nothing new for the rest of the world.
- elmomle 4y agoYes, and the CCP has banned Instagram and Facebook because they understand that those are ultimately tools for subtly shaping mass opinion, regardless of whether it's clear that they're used for that purpose. Why would the US not do the same with TikTok?
- pasttense01 4y agoThis a a press release from Republican Senator Rubio from Florida and doesn't belong in this forum.
- coliveira 4y agoOther countries should start banning Facebook and Twitter for similar reasons.
- dal 4y agoThey do that but most of the time for the opposite reason. Because their populations might get to know something forbidden and truthful.
- kelseyfrog 4y agoThe difference between patriot and terrorist is a matter of perspective, huh?
- paxys 4y agoThere’s nothing to “start”. Plenty of countries (including China) already ban Facebook and Twitter.
- coding123 4y agoI mean, technically could this be the start of a "great firewall of america"?
- Leary 4y ago
- lesuorac 4y agoNo, it doesn't. Truth Social isn't a social media company. > (3) SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANY.—The term ‘‘social media company’’— (iii) has more than 1,000,000 monthly active users for a majority of months during the preceding 12 months;
- riskable 4y agoDo bots count as "users" in this context?
- zwieback 4y agoSeems like a good way to lose young voters. How hard would it be to spin-off TikTok USA into a separate entity?
- reaperducer 4y agoSeems like a good way to lose young voters. Anyone aggrieved by this would move on to the next social fad and forget that TikTok even exists as quickly as they forgot #kony2012 three months later. And my guess is that they're not exactly enthusiastic participants in the electoral system anyway.
- jedberg 4y ago> And my guess is that they're not exactly enthusiastic participants in the electoral system anyway. Gen Z voters were the driving force giving the Democrats the best midterm results in decades.
- reaperducer 4y agoAre Gen Z's TikTok users? I thought that was mostly for Millennials and more recently, Boomers.
- kelseyfrog 4y agoYes. > Snapchat (96%) , TikTok( 91%), Youtube (87%), and Instagram (83%) are the top three social media platforms used by Gen Z, according to a new study done by National Research Group. For comparison banning TikTok would have a wider impact on Gen Z than banning them from YouTube. https://www.renolon.com/gen-z-and-social-media/ https://www.renolon.com/gen-z-and-social-media/
- KerrAvon 4y agoDo we actually know that for sure now? It would be hugely newsworthy if young voters finally actually showed up in large numbers. People have made this claim ever since Obama's first term and it's usually not actually panned out in the data. (edited to add: I don't support banning TikTok. This is actually a free speech issue. I didn't like it when Trump did it by executive fiat and I don't like it now. If the content there is truly that corrosive, implement punitive measures short of a full ban. The bar has to be much higher than "I don't like it" for the government to fully censor something.)
- josephcsible 4y agoI wish they'd do this via a slightly different criterion, which IMO would be more fair: ban foreign companies from operating in the US whenever American companies in the same field can't operate in the same way in the foreign company's home country (so TikTok would end up banned here since Twitter, etc. is banned there).
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago> would be more fair: ban foreign companies from operating in the US whenever American companies in the same field can't operate in the same way in the foreign company's home country This blows up global trade. Different countries value different industries for different reasons. The French aren't going to sell wine like Americans, and Americans don't care enough about the difference to get into a fight over it.
- xster 4y agoChina had concrete laws its local competitors adhere to that Twitter etc elected to not adhere to. Are there concrete laws that local companies adhere to that TikTok can follow besides "don't be Chinese"?
- josephcsible 4y agoThe concrete laws that say things like "you must censor any posts that acknowledge the Tiananmen Square Massacre happened, or that the Uyghur genocide is currently happening" you mean? I don't think ByteDance would be able to get themselves unbanned under my scheme without the CCP changing its laws, but it's hard to view that as a negative when ByteDance is basically an extension of the CCP.
- arikr 4y agoIf Elon can re-launch Vine in time, I could see this working out. US Government causes a mass TikTok exodus and everyone goes onto Vine.
- countvonbalzac 4y agoeveryone's going to go to Instagram Reels and YouTube Shorts.
- CuriouslyC 4y agoInstagram is dying, if TikTok is banned Youtube wins.
- TotoHorner 4y agoIt’ll just be YouTube shorts most likely. Reels is pretty terrible.
- pantalaimon 4y agoYouTube Shorts are awful compared to TikTok
- meta2023 4y agoFuck Elon/Twitter. We need a new actual visionary to build the next generation of social media, not a power-hungry alt-right panderer.
- batter 4y agoLet him finish twitter before starting new affair :)
- endisneigh 4y agoIt’ll be fun in 10 years when you need the equivalent of calling cards to access foreign sites. In the end it’s hilarious how the American government thinks of its citizens as being so clueless to need such a paternalistic policy. I wonder how many tiktokers even care about the fact that the app is Chinese.
- par 4y ago> American government thinks of its citizens as being so clueless to need such a paternalistic policy. uh... you really haven't met a lot of US citizens if you think they don't need paternalistic policy.
- endisneigh 4y agoOh I have. Plenty of Americans do things obviously bad for themselves. Should all of those things be illegal? Debatable
- tene80i 4y agoShould it be none of them?
- kelseyfrog 4y agoIt should be either all or none. No nuance or gray areas at all.
- NaturalPhallacy 4y agoFreedom is nothing more than the right to do the "wrong" thing.
- TremendousJudge 4y agoReminds me of this jewel by The Onion: Obama Scales Back Goals For America After Visiting Denny's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yiQXPOO1Yo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yiQXPOO1Yo
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- MBCook 4y agoI don’t remember exactly when Congress seemed to figure out they could spell things by making backronyms of bill names, but boy I wish they’d stop. How about “Anti-TikTok Act of 2022”.
- PoignardAzur 4y agoI'm pretty sure that's a uniquely American thing too. At least I've never seen it in France. But yeah, the bill names get really goofy sometimes.
- liketochill 4y agoThey need to be marketed to the public and lawmakers to get passed and like a cve with a catchy name and brand they get more attention with a good name. Eg 1200 page bill which includes the governments entire platform summed up as inflation reduction act
- dmonitor 4y agoI kind of love how creative they get with it. It's just a fun thing they get to do.
- MBCook 4y agoThey could have fun with it, but it mostly seems so performative to me. Make a pro-waterfowl bill called the POND Act? Sure. That’s kind of fun. Make a voter ID bill called the SAVE FREEDOM FROM SCAMS Act? That’s what I’m tired of. I do understand SB 1589 isn’t exactly memorable. Just don’t make it look like you’re trying to hard? Maybe it’s like comedy in that way.
- eatonphil 4y agoMight be worth looking at non-senator-specific press releases on the topic since this one is focused on Rubio. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/13/lawmakers-unveil-bipartisan-bill-that-aims-to-ban-tiktok-in-the-us.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/13/lawmakers-unveil-bipartisan-...
- fassssst 4y agoOn the same day one part of the government announces breakthrough scientific research another part says “The federal government has yet to take a single meaningful action to protect American users from the threat of TikTok.” lol
- pseudolus 4y ago"TikTok is digital fentanyl that’s addicting Americans, collecting troves of their data, and censoring their news." Is the conclusion that all forms of digital fentanyl should be banned or just Chinese ones? Because the reality is there's nothing too exceptional about TikTok's underlying algorithms. Will lawmakers be willing enact legislation against companies marketing similar "digital fentanyl" but that are American or European in origin?
- moolcool 4y agoUS law seems to have a Homer Simpson approach to protecting its citizens. "Nobody ruins my family vacation but me, and maybe the boy!"
- revscat 4y agoThat’s no different from any nation, though.
- bilbo0s 4y agoWhich is probably why we'll slowly see the slow Balkanization of the internet. South Americans will go to South American properties. North Americans will go to North American Properties. Europeans will go to European properties. I even expect the Africans to see this Balkanization as a way to solve some of their problems with, at once, unemployment and security.
- LarryMullins 4y agoBalkanization is one way to see it. Re-assertion of sovereignty is another. Without this 'balkanization', the EU lacks the practical ability to regulate their own internal affairs. Their data and privacy laws are little more than wishful thinking until they ban American apps (all American software companies are legally obligated by the US Government to flaunt those EU laws.)
- moolcool 4y agoI think you underestimate the footprint and influence that Meta has in Africa.
- laweijfmvo 4y agoWhat does "banning" an app mean, in the practical sense? I guess Apple and Google would remove it from their stores; how about side-loading? Would ISPs be responsible from blocking the website? Mobile carriers? Would we prosecute VPNs? Would it be illegal for individuals to engage with it? Are we going to put all of gen-z into jail?
- gpm 4y agoI believe the idea is to make it illegal to do business with the entities running the social media app. Apple and Google would have to remove it from their stores. Buying advertising on it would be illegal. Receiving money as a creator from it would be illegal. Etc.
- etchalon 4y agoThis is a ridiculous idea.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- rayiner 4y agoI don’t understand the bi-partisan dislike of Tik Tok. As far as content goes, it’s pretty wholesome compared to what you see on movies and TV these days. It’s much better at giving kids age appropriate content than other sites. There is also a lot less commercialized stuff. Way better than cartoons that peddle toys and junk.
- datalopers 4y ago> I don’t understand the bi-partisan dislike of Tik Tok. It's not hard to understand, it's literally because it's controlled by China.
- dmonitor 4y agoExactly. They can use it to boost the opinions that they favor. The feedback loop of "I talked about opinion X and got tons of love" and "I talked about opinion Y and everyone got mad / ignored me" is very powerful, especially on young people.
- moduspol 4y agoLikewise: * "X seems to be a pretty big deal because I keep hearing a lot of people upset about it" * "I haven't seen anything about X. It must not be that big of a deal." All social media seems to be moving toward individualized echo chambers, but it's another level when it's an individualized black box controlled by foreign interests.
- TigeriusKirk 4y agoWhen I first signed up for TikTok it showed me stuff to figure out what I would like. It showed me some of the most racist humor I'd heard since I was a boy in the deep south. If I'd liked it, it would have shown me more and more and more of it. As it is, I don't see it now because the algo feeds me stuff I actually like. I do think there's a content problem on TikTok, but I think it's hidden away from the people who would point it out due to the way the algo works.
- rglover 4y agoTangentially related. A friend of mine's wife is a paramedic/firefighter and I always ask her about crazy stories from when she's on duty. This past weekend, she told me about one where a teenager saw a challenge/trend on TikTok to report a fake fire. She said they showed up with multiple fire engines, ambulances, and a squad car to no fire. The girl who called it in just said she saw it as a trend on TikTok and wanted to post a video. A ban wouldn't be the worst thing (especially when you consider that it's a covert foreign state attack—ideological subversion—by the CCP).
- cellularmitosis 4y ago> it's a covert foreign state attack—ideological subversion—by the CCP Have you actually used TikTok? I've heard this claim several times but I'm just not seeing it in my feed.
- lostmsu 4y agoYou might as well be right and TikTok could just be ByteDance's Facebook, only reason for it being separated from its Chinese version is the desire to capture market with content which China would ban otherwise. However, as a user of VK, I can tell you it went totalitarian rather quickly after the Russian government decided it is time to exercise its power as the indirect owner of the company. Hell, even Yandex, formerly famous search engine was forced to sell user facing bits out when puilo ramped up repressions. Can you imagine having a search engine like Google where the side news feed were forced to be sold and now belongs to a separate company wholly owned by pro-government or state entities, and they still had to continue showing it exactly where it were on their search page?
- rglover 4y agoYes, but I stopped about two years ago once I realized what it was/who was creating it (I though it was U.S. based at first). It was very clearly a vehicle for demoralization.
- tedunangst 4y agoHow many tide pods did the girl eat?
- factsarelolz 4y agoMan if only the dude that first wanted to ban TikTok wasn't Orange we'd be way past this point already.
- rcpt 4y agoThe fact that this even got this far really shows that young people don't vote.
- rayiner 4y agoWe just had record youth turnout for a midterm election. On the way to his 18 point winning margin, bill sponsor Marco Rubio won the majority of the 30-44 vote. He won a healthy 41% of the Zoomer vote too: https://www.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-polls https://www.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-polls
- dougmwne 4y agoWhy not? China doesn’t allow our social media. Why should we allow theirs? We can easily copy the best parts of the platform and let our companies take their users. Plus, social media can be used for mass political manipulation, and what justifies letting them hold that power over our population? It’s good for our companies, it’s good for our people, and it takes away a dangerous tool from a country that is more and more an adversary. I truly hope it is banned. Better late than never. Nothing against this rather brain-dead tech. Let Facebook/Google/Twitter have those users on the clones.
- lcfcjs 4y agoBecause we are a democracy with freedoms protected by the government. If we copy their tactics on digital democracy, where do we draw the line? Should we also start locking people in their houses if they have covid?
- artificial 4y agoThe people who have access are making boatloads of cash. Full stop. Trade is a little different, enable equal access to markets or reply in kind. I fail to see why it's in the interests of the West to do any trade with nations that don't share values. Why enable these authoritarian countries? Would this be a compelling argument for 1930s Germany? "Well, we may not agree with how they're doing things, but the prices are unbeatable!"
- dougmwne 4y agoWhen ever has “being a democracy” meant, “we need to give our adversaries unlimited ability to feed propaganda and disinformation directly to our citizens”? Our rights apply to our citizens, not to foreign governments. They should have no right to speak to us. They should have no right to do business with us. Our elected representatives can and should regulate this international trade.
- AlexandrB 4y agoThink about who is being restricted here, because it's not just TikTok. Why are you ok with the government dictating which apps you can and cannot install?
- enson110 4y agoChina is not ban Apple, because Apple willing to store data inside China. BUT, why did US ban tiktok although they were willing to store data inside US. You can ban a company that not obtain the law, but can not ban without any advice.
- qvrjuec 4y agoWhat? This is completely asinine. You're comparing a hardware company to a social media company.
- UltraViolence 4y agoI see this as being inevitable. TikTok and ByteDance are secretly mocking us and ignoring our laws. They keep claiming that the transfer of Americans data to the U.S. is "in progress" and I believe the whole thing is an insider company joke. In the meantime they simply keep pilfering and abusing our data. What's worse, unscrupulous advertisers are actually taking disadvantage of their illegal behavior to advertise to minors and to track and profile them, which is against the law. The sooner TikTok is banned the better!!
- nikanj 4y agoThese same legislators are absolutely furious when the EU fines Facebook. I think Meta respects EU laws about as much as TikTok respects US laws
- UltraViolence 4y agoThe EU is running a risky gambit by attacking U.S. tech giants whilst doing next to nothing against Chinese counterparts like TikTok. They're too afraid their population won't be able to buy cheap Chinese trinkets. And Germany is too afraid it won't be able to sell its cars in China and is blindly selling its soul to keep the exports flowing. They keep forgetting the U.S. is guaranteeing their safety through our NATO commitments. China will only play them out against each other to benefit itself. They're merely children playing amongst the wolves.
- Simon_O_Rourke 4y agoI know a few ex-Twitter and ex-Facebook engineers who went straight to TikTok. Feel sorry for what they must be thinking about and going through reading this.
- nikanj 4y agoIsn't this just a "Protect Meta from competition" bill?
- jmyeet 4y agoAddictiveness is a poor argument to use here because the hypocrisy will immediately be exposed. If that's the standard, why not take action against online gambling, sports betting, etc? Aren't US-owned platforms also addictive? The best argument is reciprocity. China is largely a closed market to US companies. This is intentional policy by the CCP. the CCP dangles the 1B+ market to extract concessions from Western companies that I don't like (eg making movies more palatable to the CCP even released elsewhere). More importantly, Western companies will never "win" in China. It's Lucy and the football. The CCP will guarantee that doesn't happen. Trade is predicated to open and equal access to each other's markets. Obviously the reality isn't quite that but that's the starting principle: reciprocity. China is clearly not reciprocating the access Chinese companies have in the West and that's a good a reason as any to ban things like Tiktok. It's also justifiable. There's also the issue that Chinese companies are tools of the state without any adequate separation or rule of law to stop that in a way that just isn't true for US companies. But that's a lesser issue than the recipricoal trade issue.
- rvz 4y agoGreat start. The digital crack cocaine that TikTok is, was already under extensive investigation and will inevitably be either banned in the US on the grounds of national security or heavily fined to the point where they have to leave the US. The fines for repeat offenders should also be in the billions, applying to all social networks worth over $1BN if it is enough for them to take user privacy seriously.
- bjourne 4y ago"TikTok is digital fentanyl that’s addicting Americans, ..." RIP freedom of speech.
- falcor84 4y agoThat's taking it a bit too far. While there's definitely some truth to McLuhan's "The Medium is the Message", TikTok is a tool, not a statement. As an analogy, we can have free speech while enforcing noise ordinances prohibiting people from yelling through megaphones in residential areas.
- LarryMullins 4y agoMy take: This isn't about China, not really. They're not trying to ban all apps from China, or all social media apps controlled by foreign governments. Chinese spyware apps masquerading as video games are apparently fine, if they don't have users generating and sharing content. And hypothetical manipulative social media owned/controlled by a foreign government isn't banned, unless that government happens to be on the naughty list (China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, Cuba, and Venezuelan.) If the government of Pakistan makes a popular social media app to manipulate and spy on the American public, that's A-Okay with this bill because Pakistan isn't on that list. This is really about TikTok specifically. The real reason? TikTok and their userbase pioneered depths of cringe so extreme, revulsion to it cuts across all political boundaries.
- gen220 4y agoInterestingly, the bill gives a definition of a "social media company", that's fairly specific [1, pages 7-8] and fun to ponder on its own [2]. The flimsiest bullet point in the definition might be that the company "sells digital advertising space". If TikTok started gating access to paid accounts only, I wonder if they would no longer qualify be a "social media company"! And therefore not be a "threat". (: [1]: pdf warning https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/1ebac814-157e-4e26-81b9-d9aa3fd96ae3/5861AFCCFDC5254BAFEE5BB2BDA54B32.hey22c36.pdf https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/1ebac814-15... [2]: There's also an interesting exception for websites that have the "primary purpose" of posting/viewing "reviews" of business, travel, or products.
- mikrl 4y agoTechnical and security issues aside, I wonder how the users are going to take it. My generation (1992) didn’t have a major cultural phenomenon being attacked in this way, though there was still the moral panic around things like social media and research chems. The closest comparison I can draw is the crackdown on raves which affected western Gen X youth, but TikTok is more pervasive and more heterogeneous as a form of cultural expression. Copycats? Underground tiktok? Gen Z influencers calling for action against the feds? Acceptance of the government’s position?
- hereme888 4y agoThe "attack" is equivalent of trying to rescue opioid addicts from heroin. Or like you said, cracking down on raves (because we all know what really fuels and motivates those parties. I hope more ethical companies take over the void. In fact, I see YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter in a position to fill the void since they've introduced "shorts" and some things similar to tik tok.
- AlexandrB 4y agoThere are no ethical companies in the social media space - they're all trying to maximize engagement and manipulate you for economic gain. This is more like telling opioid addicts: "don't take that Chinese heroin, use our home-grown stuff instead".
- hereme888 4y agoI agree that there are no ethical social media companies (except maybe the "decentralized" ones like Mastodon perhaps). By more ethical I mean companies that don't share data with a literal enemy, like the CCP. I'm all about passing very strong laws and lawsuits against big tech for their continued abuse despite previous wrist slaps.
- _michaelll 4y ago> more ethical companies... YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter What do you use as the measurement for more ethical in this case? I see the companies you mentioned completely equivalent(all pretty bad) in terms of making choices that are best for our shared society.
- moneycantbuy 4y ago“We know it’s used to manipulate feeds and influence elections.” The manipulation of society at scale by a foreign adversary is my biggest concern about tik tok. I imagine they can flip a switch or more likely a long slow push of american values to china’s liking. That and many people stare at it for a majority of their waking hours. Good riddance. withdrawals and who fills the vacuum will be interesting.
- MisterBastahrd 4y agoWe can't ban gatcha games which are actually predatory towards children in the US, but sure, let's ban an app where people share 3 minute clips. Makes sense.
- jonathankoren 4y ago“The [Inter]Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.” — John Gilmore, 1993 “Now there's no question China has been trying to crack down on the Internet. Good luck! That's sort of like trying to nail jello to the wall.” — Bill Clinton, 2000
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- uptownfunk 4y agoPlease for the sake of our children ban this toxic stuff.
- helen___keller 4y agoI won’t cry if TikTok disappears forever but you’re deluding yourself if you think TikTok is anything more than an iteration on a whole ecosystem of addictive digital content apps, that just happens to be owned by a Chinese company Nothing wrong with playing protectionist games and fighting to remain the home of the worlds most influential tech companies, but let’s be honest that this is what it is. We’re not doing this to protect the children.
- mkoryak 4y agoI am not under 30 by a decade. I installed tiktok and it was all videos of people getting gross ear wax out and popping giant zits. Maybe I swiped the wrong way or something. This is not digital fentanyl, its more like digital Ipecac syrup. I uninstalled tiktok
- 1attice 4y agoIf this somehow degenerates into an all-out war between congressmen and k-pop stans, I'm getting the popcorn
- pasquinelli 4y agocommunism is long gone, but we can still have a red scare. maybe it wasn't ever about communism to begin with.
- ahstilde 4y agoTikTok is too entertaining to go anywhere. Instead, I'd prefer 1. Turn TikTok US into a company owned by a number of bidders 2. Force TikTok CN to share algos and other stuff from TikTok US 3. Have TikTok US pay some % of revenue to TikTok CN The same arrangement that US companies have to do in CN.
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- pneumatic1 4y agoHard to see this becoming law though. They must have influence in DC by now.
- snapcaster 4y agoThis is sad. I don't have a tiktok account or interact with it in anyway, but are we trying to beat china by becoming them? This seems like the wrong approach
- dang 4y agoThis has been a MOT (major ongoing topic) for a while (I don't mean Tiktok in general, just the regulation/bannage aspect). Below are the threads I was able to find. With MOTs, we generally wait for SNI (significant new information) before having yet another thread. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22significant%20new%20information%22%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... Proposed bills tend not to count as SNI since they usually don't go anywhere. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20bills%20propos&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... I suppose in this case the appearance of the bill itself may be a significant notch in the story? --- South Dakota first to ban TikTok on state-owned devices - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33836666 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33836666 - Dec 2022 (291 comments) The FBI alleges TikTok poses national security concerns - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33653894 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33653894 - Nov 2022 (418 comments) U.S. FBI director says TikTok poses national security concerns - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33617301 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33617301 - Nov 2022 (68 comments) TikTok is “unacceptable security risk” and should be removed from app stores - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33447285 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33447285 - Nov 2022 (64 comments) FCC commissioner says government should ban TikTok - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33423895 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33423895 - Nov 2022 (112 comments) TikTok accused of covert plot to track specific US citizens' every move - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33302591 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33302591 - Oct 2022 (106 comments) ByteDance planned to use TikTok to surveil specific American citizens - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33280176 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33280176 - Oct 2022 (208 comments) FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32148218 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32148218 - July 2022 (848 comments) As TikTok grows, so does suspicion - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32045339 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32045339 - July 2022 (617 comments) FCC commissioner wants TikTok removed from app stores over spying concerns - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31923483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31923483 - June 2022 (505 comments)
- game_the0ry 4y agoA ban is not the answer to the problem of addictive social media platforms. A new platform will likely take its place, and then we will be having the same problem. The solution is for all of us to be aware the danger that social media has on us and our children, then adjust our behaviors so as to not let social media have a negative, but positive, effect on our lives. Of course that won't happen bc that would take discipline and personal responsibility.
- pfisherman 4y agoWell the world is catching up to how social media apps / sites can be used as tools of statecraft by the countries that control them. If you were in charge of national defense would you allow a potential adversary unfettered access to map out and leverage the social networks of your citizenry for their information operations? No one in their right mind would do that. If I were a country not aligned with the US, I would ban all US based social media apps / sites. I think that there is an argument to made for a culture of free access to content / information in the US. But one must also keep in mind that (a) unlike broadcasts or pamphlets the flow of information here is bidirectional, (b) entities outside the US are certainly not entitled to information about US citizens, and (c) entities operating outside of the US are not necessarily subject to US laws which includes first amendment protections.
- archagon 4y agoWhat does it mean to “ban” a piece of software? Can’t TikTok simply keep operating as a website, for free if need be…?
- reset-password 4y agoTo me this signals that TikTok isn't sharing with the 3-letter agencies and they don't like it.
- eatonphil 4y agoIt's been happening lower than the federal level. :) There seem to be reasons for it with substance. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/alabama-utah-become-latest-us-states-ban-tiktok-state-devices-2022-12-13/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/alabama-utah-become-latest-...
- ozymandias12 4y agoIt makes a lot of sense for one gov to not want their BYOD policies affected by foreign (read adversary) countries. Cool. It doesn't make sense to cut TikTok from US civilian devices because: Land of the free, free speech etc etc etc. The other guy you replied to is correct, CIA/NSA et all don't like they can't swing their ducks into Bytedance servers and doctorate the content without exposing intelligence agencies MO to the Chinese. Every American should be fighting against such bill because when domestic cronies own all domestic media, you guys are in a virtual China. Media plurality is the beacon of a healthy democracy, so suck it up Rubio
- tjs8rj 4y agoSkipping all the baggage that's formed around the TikTok ban/no-ban, do you think nothing should be done about a powerful foreign country with ill-will having direct access to an incredible amount of US citizen data? Even if you don't think a ban is reasonable, the current state of affairs in this regard can't continue, or do you think otherwise?
- kramerger 4y agoLet's turn that around: what kind of control do US three letter agencies have over Facebook etc, given how much they fear the Chinese having the same?
- bubblematrix 4y agoTikTok had a sharp decline in quality content anyway, it's a dying platform like Vine.
- willcodeforfoo 4y ago> The Averting the National Threat of Internet Surveillance, Oppressive Censorship and Influence, and Algorithmic Learning by the Chinese Communist Party Act (ANTI-SOCIAL CCP Act) ...that actually is a pretty good name.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- cute_boi 4y ago"national security concerns" and "what about children" have always been used by government to pass useless bills. Instead of banning Tiktok, how about enforcing proper rules and regulations that every social media should follow? Why not make a proper privacy that every people in US deserves. Many people are probably glad that they are banning Chinese tech, but at the end it is gonna be superseded by Instagram which supply more data to three letter organization. The probability that three letter organization abusing our data is more than Chinese government.
- class4behavior 4y agoI totally agree with your main point but it is very wrong to equivocate the three letter agencies to the threat authoritarian governments gaining knowledge and thus power over a nation pose.
- mistermann 4y agoAgree - in my opinion, the threat from three letter agencies (if one considers the entirety of the things they get up to) far exceeds the threat from China. I believe TikTok is a MASSIVE threat to those running the show in the US, as it may be the most potent propaganda tool out there, and the US government has many juicy attack vectors that TikTok as a platform is perfect for attacking. I tend to keep my feed pretty clean of stuff like that, but it does creep in every now and then, who knows how much anti-US propaganda is on the platform that I never encounter but others do (like the agencies who go looking for it, since "Public Relations" dominance is their job).
- hello_friendos 4y ago
- robotburrito 4y agoI have to imagine the 3 letter orgs are already scraping tiktok.
- fomine3 4y ago
- resuresu 4y agoHope it passes. I want that malicious social engineering tool purged from civilization and anyone involved in the creation of it thrown in prison.
- excalibur 4y agoAgreed, but only if we do the same for Facebook, Twitter et al.
- GekkePrutser 4y agoAgreed, there should be rules for all of them. This is not startups trying stuff out anymore, these apps have huge influence on the course of civilization.
- mistermann 4y agoShall we apply the same standard to mainstream "journalism", or is there a certain level of acceptable social engineering?
- resuresu 4y agoThere should be rules on what they can put into news papers or on the air. Needs to go through some review process where actual sources must be provided and verified. Not the trash we have today where “sources say” “polls say” lol what f*cking sources? Prove your BS!
- excalibur 4y agoThis is going to be popular with the MAGA base and unpopular with the young voters that are critical to the left. It doesn't matter if it passes, or even who the credit/blame gets assigned to, there's no scenario where this is good for Joe Biden politically.
- cuteboy19 4y agoDoing the right thing despite being hurt by it. Very refreshing to see
- AuthConnectFail 4y agoit's not likely to pass according to verge
- UltraViolence 4y agoIt will pass eventually since Big Tech are hell-bent on banning one of their biggest competitors from Western markets.
- janalsncm 4y agoThe message this sends if it passes is not “don’t spy on people”. The message is “play ball or get banned”. It’s hard to come up with a principled justification for allowing Facebook to operate with impunity while banning TikTok, unless those principles are highly aligned with those of three letter agencies. This leads me to the cynical interpretation of “national security” objections. The spying was never the issue. It’s who can access the data afterwards that’s the problem. If the US government can’t, then it’s a security concern.
- telotortium 4y agoThe principle is "social media companies not under the control of the US (or at least the West/US allies)" should be banned.
- spikefromspace 4y agoI hope they turn this into a more agnostic data residency and privacy bill. I dont see much merit in targeting just tiktok or even just social media companies.
- anm89 4y agoI love how it forces them to say the quiet part out loud: "The kind of tracking that all of these companies do is against your interest and should be considered a threat". In this case they are implying that China having my data should scare me more than google but google has much more ability to ruin my life than China as an American
- Firebrand 4y agoTikTok’s popularity is already waning in the U.S. Installs of the app are down 33% YoY in November, from 6.6MM in November '21 to 4.5MM in November '22. -0.3% YoY worldwide. In fact, Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp outgrew TikTok and even YouTube during this period: https://twitter.com/eric_seufert/status/1602045164016615428?s=46&t=8b4FoFaAGjxLXVcr8qXzNg https://twitter.com/eric_seufert/status/1602045164016615428?...
- three_seagrass 4y agoIt's down across the board except for Facebook apps, meaning Meta probably increased their advertising budgets during this timeframe relative to the others.
- heliophobicdude 4y agoLegislators can dress this however they'd like but there's no hiding who stands to benefit from this the most[1]. Also, be careful emitting hate for individuals or groups of people based on an identity. You would look very silly recorded on the internet being xenophobic and racist. 1: https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-stoked-washingtons-fears-about-tiktok-11598223133 https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-st...
- satonakamoto 4y agoByteDance is the company. tiktok is a global App. And Douyin is Chinese Special version. Chinese government asked Douyin's data (Chinese users), Not the tiktok(already move its data to US,UK,German and Singapore.. in 2020)