27 ms·

Meta announces hiring freeze, warns employees of restructuring

505 points by minimaxir 4y ago

firstfewshells 4y ago
They announced a hiring freeze at least a couple of months back. Not sure why this is making the news now.
dom96 4y ago
https://archive.ph/2h3t7 https://archive.ph/2h3t7
jvanderbot 4y ago
My uneducated opinion is this company had some downsizing and restructuring coming. But the leading edge of a big wave of downsizes might look like this, too.
- kansface 4y ago
  Yeah, I'm with you, and then I read 83K employees doing Metaverse? Simply amazing! That must be at least 20 billion dollars a year! The correction in the tech sector has plenty more correcting to do it seems.
  - ryanwaggoner 4y ago
    That's the total Meta headcount, across Facebook, Instagram, Messenger, WhatsApp, Oculus, etc.
  - orangepurple 4y ago
    Inverse QQQ?
    - selectodude 4y ago
      SQQQ is up 10 percent today.
- gumby 4y ago
  I doubt it. My guess is Google/Alphabet will do the same, as they have too high a proportion of people doing things that are neither basic research or contributing to revenue in any way. You can see how that can happen when you have an unconstrained gusher of money. There's effectively zero feedback. However given the weakness of their management (see: gusher of money + lack of focus) it's unlikely that the cuts will make any difference either way. Probably many good people will simply take a buy out and then go get another interesting job. Netfix? Given their culture and their market problems one could imagine it, but their culture seems to have steered them into trying to fight back. So probably not a big wave, just some trimming, as they have already done. As for the rest of maAMA-n? They appear to be doing fine; Amazon's retail challenges are more than made up by AWS. Apple and MS are trundling along as if nothing is happening in the macroenvironment (and they each have 40+ years to have worked out their systems).
  - tempsy 4y ago
    Apple is down like 6% today on reports of soft iPhone sales. In an economy where people are actually belt tightening luxury hardware sales are not exactly recession proof
    - noir_lord 4y ago
      They also have a cash mountain and I'd like to own a company that makes 94% of last years iphone sales. Over 200bn the last time I saw a figure (90bn in cash, the rest invested). https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-funds/sectors/sp500-companies-stockpile-1-trillion-cash-investors-want-it/ https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-funds/sectors/sp500-compa...
      - tempsy 4y ago
        I’m not an Apple bear, I’m saying that it’s a bit naive to say that any company will not be negatively affected by a recession that can result in downsizing or layoffs.
      - colinmhayes 4y ago
juice_bus 4y ago
What an awful way to announce that. Q&A is over folks, everyone go back to their desk and start working again - good luck!
- ccooffee 4y ago
  Such a poor plan. Dropping this in a Q&A means that nothing else said will be remembered. It's also being implemented in a completely asinine way: "individual teams will sort out how to handle headcount changes". Take no culpability for anything, and ensure that the confusion and anger targets the bottom-most level of management. What a classy move!
  - n0us 4y ago
    I'm sure that senior leadership will also be held accountable for the over-hiring they mandated and their teams will be among the first to reduce headcount \s
- jollyllama 4y ago
  I'm curious if there was a plant to say "hey are there going to be layoffs." "Well, Joe, it's funny you ask..."
armitron 4y ago
Of all FAANGs I expect FB to be the first to sink. I see the writing on the wall..
- _boffin_ 4y ago
  Why?
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    Their main product sucks and their Boomer user base is literally dying. The acquisitions are keeping them in the game, but Insta has intense competition from TikTok and Snap and YouTube. They don’t have an unsinkable critical product that everyone uses and will continue to use through good and bad times, like search or mail.
    - lallysingh 4y ago
      Shit maybe they should buy Harley Davidson.
    - bpodgursky 4y ago
      Snapchat is walking dead fwiw. TikTok is strong, but realistically will be banned across the west next couple years b/c of security problems. You might hate Instagram, and that's very understandable, but it's going to be fine.
      - jeffbee 4y ago
        I used to think this about Snap but then https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2022/08/10/teens-social-media-and-technology-2022/ https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2022/08/10/teens-social...
        colinmhayes 4y ago
        Problem with snapchat is that no one older than 25 uses it. They've already saturated their user base and stuffed as many ads as they can into the app. There's not really anywhere for them to go and they're still losing money.
seydor 4y ago
It will metastasize
- raverbashing 4y ago
  They will throw the book right at your face
brentmitchell25 4y ago
They should only keep the engineers that remember how to solve leetcode hard problems /s
- nobleach 4y ago
  Have you ever interviewed with Facebook/Meta? They don't do leetcode problems. Say what you want about them as a company, but I've done quite a few interviews in my career and their process was one of my favorites.
  - bagels 4y ago
    I have. They definitely ask leetcode type of problems.
  - fdgsdfogijq 4y ago
    They are notorious for wanting their engineers to spit out memorized solutions of leetcode hards
    - nice_byte 4y ago
      I have interviewed with them more than a single time, and this is simply not true.
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        This thread leaves me wondering if, perhaps, interviewing differs within the organization. Lots of confident "nuh-uh"s on both sides.
        nice_byte 4y ago
        nsenifty 4y ago
        They don't ask leetcode questions for Front-end engineers AFAIK. It's mostly practical Javascript/DOM/browser questions. Funnily enough though, I heard once you join as a Front-end engineer, you are pretty much a regular SWE and can join any team and work on any tech, even backend/systems.
arberx 4y ago
Tech is reflexive. Since most tech/saas companies sell/support other saas companies, they all go down. Think about all the startups who rely on AWS, Apple computers, and Facebook ads. What happens when they all die? The tech bull run is over, and we'll find out where the bodies lie soon.
- dimgl 4y ago
  This is really hyperbolic. Facebook is not even closely comparable to those. Additionally, there's no market indication that won't be a need for services like AWS or hardware provided by Apple. It's really weird how many people seem to _want_ the tech industry to just wither and die. It's unlikely and unrealistic. There may be a sharp correction, but it's unrealistic to think that the behemoths with a moat are going anywhere.
  - arberx 4y ago
    No one said anything about tech dying (I said startups), but a repricing for sure. We don't even know the market demand for these products because cheap money has made everyone a startup founder, and every company pivoted to providing a "tech" solution when it might not have been economically viable or provided any profit.
    - andsoitis 4y ago
      > No one said anything about tech dying (I said startups) You wrote: “Since most tech/saas companies sell/support other saas companies, they all go down.”
      - sgerenser 4y ago
        “Go down” presumably meaning stock goes down, not “goes bankrupt.”
  - lallysingh 4y ago
    AWS is healthy. Apple is effectively immortal, but will slowly commoditize (10+ yrs) from lack of innovation. Meta/Goog are (eng staff wise) oversized for their output. Both of their leaderships aren't leading very well. Despite the hype and capabilities offered, none of the big players have find ways to use their AI assets. That's a poor indicator of their future. You can almost smell the disruption coming..
beckingz 4y ago
Layoffs time: move quickly and break people.
- scarmig 4y ago
  If it's likely you'll need layoffs, it's probably best to move as quickly as possible. Otherwise gossip, speculation, and fear have the chance to dominate.
  - neon_electro 4y ago
    Just in case you didn't recognize the reference - an early Facebook cultural motto is the phrase "move fast and break things" - a tradeoff favoring product development iteration speed over stable infrastructure. Facebook would then change their motto in 2014 to "move fast with stable infrastructure" [0] - don't know how well that's worked out for them since. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta_Platforms#cite_ref-43 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta_Platforms#cite_ref-43
bin_bash 4y ago
Haven't they already been in a freeze since this spring? Or did they come out of it for a bit?
pinko 4y ago
I wonder what this means for people I know with accepted offers who haven't yet started.
- gen220 4y ago
  Anecdotally (I have a friend in that situation), no impact as confirmed by their in-house recruiter. But it might depend on whether they were pre-allocated to a team (which I understand is very rare, but it does happen).
- moolcool 4y ago
  If I were you I would tell them to break off contact because Meta is actively causing irreparable damage to society as we know it.
  - filoleg 4y ago
    Yeah, and the reply they would receive from their friend would be a polite request to touch grass. People in the real world use instagram and whatsapp all the time without any moral qualms. The main reason facebook as a product is on a decline is because it is simply not interesting to younger people anymore. And even then, FB still manages to occasionally produce features that capture a lot of the audience back. FB marketplace has been a great hit in terms of replacing craigslist. I am not a Meta employee, and have never been one. But the hate hard-on some people on HN have against Meta just gets really ridiculous at times. We decry echochambers on social media all the time, but are perfectably comfortable falling into ones of our own, without trying to understand how the world outside is really like.
    - dubcee349 4y ago
      Marketplace is getting to be a nightmare of scams on both the buyer and seller side.
    - moolcool 4y ago
      I don't think "touch grass" is an appropriate response to legitimate questions of professional ethics. Comments like this are why I think ethics courses should be mandatory for any CS or engineering degree.
ceejayoz 4y ago
Well, guess that means the multi-year bugs in their API aren't getting fixed any time soon.
blinded 4y ago
passed the code and debugging challenge a month ago. recruiting emails have gone cold, figured this was the case.
hinkley 4y ago
Problem: We will have hired all of the people we could ever hire within 10 years. Solution: layoffs
Ozzie_osman 4y ago
Our startup spends a little bit on Facebook Ads (across FB, Instagram, etc). It's very clear over the past few months that there's trouble in the ads engine. Attribution is a mess, ad efficiency fluctuates randomly, the UI and API are flaky. I don't know whether this is a result of the ios privacy changes, the broader economy affecting ad spend, or internal issues... Maybe a mix. But it's clear that Meta's main revenue engine is a complete mess at the moment. PS it's not just us. We've seen industry-wide data showing that it's a broader issue.
- TylerE 4y ago
  They've gotten so damn greedy. On the mobile app literally over half my feed is ads.
  - dangus 4y ago
    I don’t know if there’s any merit to this idea, but it seems to me that saturation can become a real problem. At this point skipping a story or feed ad in Instagram is like a nearly instant reflex for me. Plus, the programming on the recommendations is laughably amateur for company as resourceful as Meta. If I interact with an ad one time I’ll see the same ad over and over for days or weeks. Sure, I was curious for a second, but it seems strange that Meta can’t tell that I’m not interested anymore just by monitoring basic usage of the UI. At the end of the day the advertiser is the one left paying for these repeated ineffective ad impressions. Somewhat related, I am a little surprised Meta hasn’t tried a Discord-like revenue model where paid annual memberships bestow quality of life and cosmetic social status types of benefits. Even if it wasn’t their main source of revenue it could at least diversify the business and lend some stability to their revenue. Facebook’s revenue per user is less than $10. Discord charges $99/year for Nitro. I feel like Meta has such a one-track mindset on advertising that it doesn’t consider different revenue models for its businesses. Meta spends a lot of time talking about the metaverse but Discord is already the metaverse. Why isn’t there a subscription Meta Quest game pass with Discord-like social features? It’s a no-brainer. Where’s the “pro” paid version of Instagram? Why doesn’t Instagram sell subscription access to things like exclusive camera filters, stickers, and editing tools? I feel like the company is full of missed business opportunities.
moolcool 4y ago
My heart goes out to anybody losing their job, but it's always fantastic to see bad things happening to Meta.
- kernel-dump 4y ago
  I wonder what the effects of Meta failing would have on society? I can’t think of competing social network for people to migrate to. Would topic forums see a rise in popularity again or would sites like Reddit draw in some of those users.
  - chadlavi 4y ago
    Something like this I'd guess https://frinkiac.com/caption/S04E21/888169 https://frinkiac.com/caption/S04E21/888169
  - mbrochh 4y ago
    Nothing. I'm pretty sure Meta could disappear from the face of the earth tomorrow and after a week of boredom, people would realise that life is actually much much better without it. (I've been off all Meta services since 3 years).
    - whiplash451 4y ago
      The millions of people using whatsapp for serious matters would beg to differ.
  - BeFlatXIII 4y ago
    Perhaps it boots the normies offline
  - cetahfh14615 4y ago
    > Would topic forums see a rise in popularity I highly doubt it > or would sites like Reddit draw in some of those users probably. I get the impression reddit is doing more marketing to non tech people, and more people I know have said positive stuff about reddit out of nowhere but also... I feel like this is unrelated, but reddit has seriously gone downhill since what it was in like 2015. It's a good idea but the users make it insufferable
worik 4y ago
This is a well trodden path. They cannot grow forever, nor can the economy. But investors will expect/want monotonic growth. In profits if not in revenue I expect Meta will be closing labs in the USA and opening them in other, cheaper, English speaking companies.
petilon 4y ago
> “I had hoped the economy would have more clearly stabilized by now..” Zuckerberg said. Zuck is blaming the economy, but Meta's real problem is that Apple tightened iOS privacy. Meta had built a business on tracking people, and when iOS tightened privacy, Meta could not target ads as effectively as before.
- m00x 4y ago
  It's definitely a problem, but the economic downturn is a lot more significant. Meta allegedly got around Apple's privacy rules. I used to work in user tracking, and it's very easy to track people down to near-unique from several metrics.
- nostromo 4y ago
  Apple tightening privacy while TikTok is eating their lunch... Not to mention the Metaverse is/was a giant distraction.
  - kweingar 4y ago
    Not very relevant, but an observation: I've noticed that users on HN like to use the phrase "eating their lunch" to describe the dynamic between TikTok and Facebook. It would be interesting to search HN comments from the past 12 months for "eating their lunch" and analyze what proportion of them refer to TikTok.
    - denkmoon 4y ago
      Why is that remotely notable? It's hardly an uncommon phrase.
      - kweingar 4y ago
        It’s not an uncommon phrase, but it seems like people disproportionately use it in describing this particular situation.
  - wollsmoth 4y ago
saos 4y ago
> In prior moves to reduce spending, a dual-camera watch the company was building to compete with the Apple Watch was shuttered. loool > Meta is not the only advertising company to be hit by broader economic challenges. interesting they are referenced as advertising company..
- lm28469 4y ago
  Is it ? https://www.statista.com/statistics/267031/facebooks-annual-revenue-by-segment/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/267031/facebooks-annual-... https://www.statista.com/statistics/1093781/distribution-of-googles-revenues-by-segment/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1093781/distribution-of-... Meta and Google are advertising companies, their "products" are just a way to: - gather data: whatsapp/messenger, maps, youtube, "like"/"share" buttons, reviews &c. - display ads: google search, youtube, instagram, fb feed - display a "buy" button: google search, youtube, instagram The only "new" products they don't shutdown after a year are products that allows them to gather more data / show more ads / get more "buy" clicks. Everything else get terminated no matter what
- abledon 4y ago
  who would buy a facebook watch? lol
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
    Right in the name: facebook "watch" -ing you
throwaway34237 4y ago
I wonder what freeze means in this context (paywalled so couldn't see if there was additional context) because I just received a third followup email from a recruiter at Meta..
uladzislau 4y ago
It’s not just Meta, many other companies are on the hiring freeze. Probably the reason is not fulfilled Covid period bets on growth and expansion.
switch007 4y ago
At my company... 1. We're aware of the economic situation and what others companies are doing and are just monitoring 2. We decided to just to ever-so-slightly ease off the gas on hiring. It's definitely not a hiring freeze. Do not use those words. 3. Things are delayed just until the budget is discussed 4. No new hires (still don't call it a freeze) <-- We are here 5. Small amount of layoffs ? 6. Large amount of layoffs ? (1-4 was about 3 weeks.)
- kenty 4y ago
  I think we work at the same little company. Tbh, we are already kind of at 5., some divisions are getting shut down and people have n months to find a new team. It's a game of musical chairs. While others find him inconsiderate, I appreciate that Zuckerberg is at least not all corpspeak. Too bat he bet on the losing horse with the Metaverse and now has to stay in until either it succeeds or he gets sacked.
disabled 4y ago
Perhaps Zuckerberg should be paid significantly less? Perhaps Facebook employees should fight back? Like protest or leak controversial information, especially since Facebook is in the data hoarding business? But, stuff like this should make Facebook employees angry. Zuckerberg is not a person to envy. Read this: https://www.velvetropes.com/backstage/mark-zuckerberg-house https://www.velvetropes.com/backstage/mark-zuckerberg-house Also, a few years ago Zuckerberg spent like $27 million for his own personal security in a 365 day period, which is obviously obscene. Clearly he is a paranoid dude and certainly he keeps to himself. But, he is a hardcore oligarch, that’s for sure.
- m_ke 4y ago
  If that grinds your gears check these out: - https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/tech/snapchat-evan-spiegel-house-holmby-hills-1203574331/ https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/tech/snapchat-evan-spieg... - https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/finance/brian-armstrong-house-bel-air-los-angeles-1203445464/ https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/finance/brian-armstrong-...
- laweijfmvo 4y ago
  Also spent $20m+ for security during the pandemic/lockdown, which the company pays for, while all us plebs sat at home.
- cetahfh14615 4y ago
  > But, stuff like this should make Facebook employees angry. Zuckerberg is not a person to envy. It's a wonder he hasn't been pushed out yet. I'm pretty sure he's holding enough stock to prevent it from happening, but you have to wonder what kind of internal pressure there is in the Facebook C suite right now
drfuzzy89 4y ago
Is it known whether this sort of hiring freeze affects all levels? I have a friend who's in-progress for a staff role at Meta and I had heard in the past that staff was often "immune to hiring freezes."
- loeg 4y ago
  "Active interview loops will continue," but also "we will not make any offers until the freeze is lifted." So, go figure. Edit: IC7+ is explicitly not frozen. > The only roles that will remain open are SWE IC7+, Data Center roles, and 2023 Intern, Pathway and AI STE class hiring
  - laweijfmvo 4y ago
    Imagine being of IC7+ caliber and voluntarily deciding to jump on this sinking ship. I doubt such a person exists. Might be an opportunity to upsell yourself into an IC7[+] offer, though.
    - zeroonetwothree 4y ago
      Money is still a good motivator
      - dubcee349 4y ago
        But meta is very stock compensation heavy so you are betting on the company stock at least not dropping considerably like the people that joined in august of last year at a $350 per a share price.
        gilbetron 4y ago
        On the other side, joining when the stock is low is great, since you get more RSUs and a stronger chance of them bouncing back up.
        4y ago
Eumenes 4y ago
they've been over zealous with their hiring for many years, this was bound to happen during economic uncertainty. tack on competition from tiktok, failing metaverse, privacy and political related scandals, and there you have it: a sinking ship
parkingrift 4y ago
Facebook (Meta) cannot innovate. Their growth since inception is almost exclusively through acquisitions. Instagram, WhatsApp, and Oculus. The core Facebook product is arguably worse today than it was 15 years ago. Meta's response to new market entrants is to just copy their features, and when they do attempt to innovate it's just comically off-base (Metaverse). This entire "Metaverse" play is so ridiculous it's deep into meme territory. Meta should have plainly seen the writing on the wall with regard to their data collection and privacy practices but either wouldn't, or more likely couldn't, pivot to new areas. And now Zuck is here saying this hiring freeze is due to the economic situation. Peak comedy. The reality is Meta has no answer for TikTok, BeReal, Apple/Google privacy changes, or whatever else is coming to the market next. I wish Meta nothing but the worst, but I'm sorry for any unfortunate souls who chose to work their and will be out of a job.
- cetahfh14615 4y ago
  > Facebook (Meta) cannot innovate. Their growth since inception is almost exclusively through acquisitions. Instagram, WhatsApp, and Oculus. Innovation at this point != success Just look at Oracle... they're still alive and doing OK They don't need to at this point. They have FB, IG, WhatsApp, and Messenger That's already a lot to begin with, they could've just coasted and they'd be fine But instead they have their idiot CEO creating PR nightmare after PR nightmare (just look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8q2BQOGRGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8q2BQOGRGE and tell me he isn't a liability) and funneling billions into what's going to be the biggest business mistake of this decade
  - parkingrift 4y ago
    Fair point with regard to Oracle, but I’m not sure it’s reasonable to compare an enterprise B2B software company with a consumer business such as Meta. I’d additionally argue that Meta is functionally coasting by way of flailing about on useless products. FB is flatlining, and IG is getting eaten alive by TikTok and BeReal. Oculus is seemingly healthy, and WhatsApp has a dominant and entrenched position. However, what is WhatsApp and Oculus worth if FB and IG fail?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
yuan43 4y ago
> “I had hoped the economy would have more clearly stabilized by now, but from what we're seeing it doesn't yet seem like it has, so we want to plan somewhat conservatively,” Zuckerberg said. A Meta spokesperson declined to comment. The economy is stabilizing. It's being weaned off of ultra-loose money for the first time in years. The stock market is starting to behave more rationally, demanding that a company whose earnings potential is sinking and which offers no dividend be valued accordingly. > ... Meta had more than 83,500 employees as of June 30, and added 5,700 new hires in the second quarter. ... FWIW, 28 % annualized hiring growth for a company the size and age of Meta is not normal. It's a sign of mismanagement and especially loss of focus.
- notacoward 4y ago
  I get 37% based on what it was when I started in 2017, and that's net over attrition during the same time. Absolutely crazy. They need to not only clear out some deadwood but also change their engineering/evaluation practices so they don't have 10K engineers working on projects that only exist because of NIH syndrome and/or impact whoring.
- foobarian 4y ago
  And they don't even create (and then quickly retire) random new product. Do they? What would be Meta's equivalent of Stadia?
  - typeofhuman 4y ago
    Oculus
    - polyomino 4y ago
      Oculus is a much bigger investment than Stadia
      - wlesieutre 4y ago
        And Facebook didn't create it either
tonymet 4y ago
It should be both reassuring & unsettling to know that even experts can't forecast the future. FB / Meta made two large stock bybacks, one with cash and one with debt, at a very high premium. Just in case you may feel bad for your investments, just remember no one can forecast the future.
- kobalsky 4y ago
  > FB / Meta made two large stock bybacks, one with cash and one with debt, at a very high premium. I don't know enough to understand if that is clearly a bad move or if maybe they had a different strategy. I mean if they wanted to buyback their own stock it seems that they are not in a position to time the market. Waiting to buy low feels like they are shorting themselves.
  - BbzzbB 4y ago
    They did heavy handed repurchases during the quarter where they saw the first active user dip, before announcing it, then barely did any in the following quarter after the stock took a 40% dive. I'm still bullish Meta, but their capital allocation with regards to buybacks was horrendous to say the least.
bilsbie 4y ago
I hope they don’t restructure the fact checking team. Who would protect us?
drummer 4y ago
Every dumpster fire, no matter how intense it burns, eventually dies out.
woeirua 4y ago
Zuck is absolutely going to call back all the remote engineers that he hired over the past two years to the office, and just like with Tesla, those who refuse will be involuntarily separated. Work from home, _is_ going to die at the megacorps.
- chrisco255 4y ago
  Meta already did this / have been doing this. But I think Meta will suffer more from this choice than the employees let go as a result.
  - erikpukinskis 4y ago
    “The Metaverse Company” declaring that they need employees to be physically in the same office would be a damning admission of failure.
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  This is my fear at Google. I'm now remote for family reasons. If for some reason they decide to do layoffs the "cut the remote staff" approach might feel attractive for foolish execs.
  - rosywoozlechan 4y ago
    Lots of smaller companies that have comparable compensation will continue to offer work from home. If a non-FANG position isn't a dealbreaker for you, you can do just fine if Google does end up requiring everyone to go back to the office.
    - UncleMeat 4y ago
      I'm not terribly worried about the entire industry undoing remote work. Mostly I really like my current job.
    - bradlys 4y ago
      > Lots of smaller companies that have comparable compensation Do you mean smaller companies that all have similar compensation to each other or similar to FAANG? Cause very few companies out there are paying $400k+ for senior engineers. People join FAANG mostly for the pay - the brand recognition is just a perk.
SwSwinger 4y ago
Somehow, Meta managed to overhire in low cost of living areas and will likely look at employee overhead when considering where to downsize.
stephc_int13 4y ago
The initially planned expenses for the year were about $95B. I know this is pretty common for those big corporations. But I think that should be put in perspective. At 500M over more than 10 years Star Citizen is considered a scam or a waste of money and at least a proof of mismanagement.
leoqa 4y ago
If only there was a way to save 10B operating expenses
lgleason 4y ago
This is what likely is happening. Zuck and co, just like the Google leaders, need to keep Wall Street happy to try to bolster the stock as much as possible. While I don't know all of the internals of the FB organization, if it is anything like Google, it could probably make the same profit with a fraction of its current headcount. So why was it on a hiring spree? Because it gives the perception of innovation to Wall Street which boosts the stock price. Since they pay a large chunk of their comp in RSU's that is like printing money to further prop up the price of the stock. Does all of that extra headcount actually create real innovation? Some does, but a lot is just fluff to keep Wall Street happy with their perception of innovation while not really moving the needle with profits. Now we are in a bear market and Wall Street is rewarding austerity and fundamentals over speculative spending. The leadership of the company is reacting accordingly. The silver lining is that perhaps this will begin to erode away the nearly monopoly status that companies like Google and Facebook have had in their respective spaces.
bigDinosaur 4y ago
If Meta vanished tomorrow, would it actually have a negative effect on our lives?
- bave8672 4y ago
  The void in the market would be quickly filled by a competitor (users in other threads have mentioned TikTok...). Whether or not this is a negative is an exercise left to the reader.
chem83 4y ago
Hiring freeze includes hired employees still doing onboarding and going through the matching process. They were told they'll be given random tasks, whatever that means.
seibelj 4y ago
I posted this 2 weeks ago and got downvoted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32827148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32827148 Google layoffs incoming next
de6u99er 4y ago
I predicted that Facebooks VR/AR gamble won't tak off. Simply because developing virtual content and tools is IMO comparable to game development. Also wearing such a headset for longer time becomes quite uncomfortable. I start sweating under it and most of us here in Europe don't have AC's at home which makes it impossible to use when it's warm. That being said, I am curious how PlayStation5's VR2 will do. I got the one for PS4 and I didn't really use it. I doubt that the new one will do much better because the headset is still large and many people don't have the necessary space at home.
- philjohn 4y ago
  That assumes that the headsets won't get smaller and lighter over time.
  - oblio 4y ago
    If the threshold for the headsets to become comfortable in mainstream conditions is 10-15 years away, their metaverse will fail.
    - philjohn 4y ago
      And yet phones started off big, bulky and with no features and now everyone has a smartphone in their pocket.
      - oblio 4y ago
        I'm not saying that it's impossible. At some point we will reach the "good enough" threshold, that's quite obvious. However your comment completely missed my point. The first mobile phone was made in 1973, 34 years before the iPhone. The first commercially available mobile phone came out in 1983, 24 years before the iPhone. If Zuckerberg bets Meta on the Metaverse, he better be prepared to keep investing with possibly low or no returns for 20+ years. And VR is a much harder problem.
likortera 4y ago
And yet I'm having emails from their recruiters to join them. This company is so pure bullshit an hypocrisy at all levels
siraben 4y ago
During the first week of July, interns were also notified that there would be no return offers for full-time roles. In very few cases a favorable enough rating on their performance reviews led to a full-time offer.
- peanuty1 4y ago
  I believe most if not all software engineering interns who got a GE performance rating (highest possible rating for interns) received return offers. I think GE is only awarded to the top 5-10% of interns though.
black_13 4y ago
Simon_O_Rourke 4y ago
Knowing a few people who work at Meta, it seems that they're deliberately making work less tolerable, with a view towards getting people to leave of their own accord. I know of three people who've been appointed new bosses within the past month. By all accounts these new managers are all jackasses, and are deliberately nasty in meetings and one-to-ones. Nasty CEO, nastier managers, I've advised anyone in there I know to get out now!
wallace_eyes38 4y ago
The economy is going downhill from now
shetill 4y ago
buro9 4y ago
Zuckerberg becoming Zorg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0mO6UY6uTg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0mO6UY6uTg
intense122 4y ago
I wish they improve products for users. For example, IG on my newest smartphone is the only app which totally freezes on ads stories. You have 80k employees but simple slider in IG desktop version can't keep its position if you close story. Why, it's just a few lines of code. Rather not mentioning content on FB, it was so much better 10 years ago.
_448 4y ago
...working to “manage out people who aren't succeeding,”...? Just say it, rather than use management speak!

505 points by minimaxir 4y ago

firstfewshells 4y ago

They announced a hiring freeze at least a couple of months back. Not sure why this is making the news now.

dom96 4y ago

https://archive.ph/2h3t7 https://archive.ph/2h3t7

jvanderbot 4y ago

My uneducated opinion is this company had some downsizing and restructuring coming. But the leading edge of a big wave of downsizes might look like this, too.

kansface 4y ago
Yeah, I'm with you, and then I read 83K employees doing Metaverse? Simply amazing! That must be at least 20 billion dollars a year! The correction in the tech sector has plenty more correcting to do it seems.
- ryanwaggoner 4y ago
  That's the total Meta headcount, across Facebook, Instagram, Messenger, WhatsApp, Oculus, etc.
- orangepurple 4y ago
  Inverse QQQ?
  - selectodude 4y ago
    SQQQ is up 10 percent today.
gumby 4y ago
I doubt it. My guess is Google/Alphabet will do the same, as they have too high a proportion of people doing things that are neither basic research or contributing to revenue in any way. You can see how that can happen when you have an unconstrained gusher of money. There's effectively zero feedback. However given the weakness of their management (see: gusher of money + lack of focus) it's unlikely that the cuts will make any difference either way. Probably many good people will simply take a buy out and then go get another interesting job. Netfix? Given their culture and their market problems one could imagine it, but their culture seems to have steered them into trying to fight back. So probably not a big wave, just some trimming, as they have already done. As for the rest of maAMA-n? They appear to be doing fine; Amazon's retail challenges are more than made up by AWS. Apple and MS are trundling along as if nothing is happening in the macroenvironment (and they each have 40+ years to have worked out their systems).
- tempsy 4y ago
  Apple is down like 6% today on reports of soft iPhone sales. In an economy where people are actually belt tightening luxury hardware sales are not exactly recession proof
  - noir_lord 4y ago
    They also have a cash mountain and I'd like to own a company that makes 94% of last years iphone sales. Over 200bn the last time I saw a figure (90bn in cash, the rest invested). https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-funds/sectors/sp500-companies-stockpile-1-trillion-cash-investors-want-it/ https://www.investors.com/etfs-and-funds/sectors/sp500-compa...
    - tempsy 4y ago
      I’m not an Apple bear, I’m saying that it’s a bit naive to say that any company will not be negatively affected by a recession that can result in downsizing or layoffs.
    - colinmhayes 4y ago

juice_bus 4y ago

What an awful way to announce that. Q&A is over folks, everyone go back to their desk and start working again - good luck!

ccooffee 4y ago
Such a poor plan. Dropping this in a Q&A means that nothing else said will be remembered. It's also being implemented in a completely asinine way: "individual teams will sort out how to handle headcount changes". Take no culpability for anything, and ensure that the confusion and anger targets the bottom-most level of management. What a classy move!
- n0us 4y ago
  I'm sure that senior leadership will also be held accountable for the over-hiring they mandated and their teams will be among the first to reduce headcount \s
jollyllama 4y ago
I'm curious if there was a plant to say "hey are there going to be layoffs." "Well, Joe, it's funny you ask..."

armitron 4y ago

Of all FAANGs I expect FB to be the first to sink. I see the writing on the wall..

_boffin_ 4y ago
Why?
- jeffbee 4y ago
  Their main product sucks and their Boomer user base is literally dying. The acquisitions are keeping them in the game, but Insta has intense competition from TikTok and Snap and YouTube. They don’t have an unsinkable critical product that everyone uses and will continue to use through good and bad times, like search or mail.
  - lallysingh 4y ago
    Shit maybe they should buy Harley Davidson.
  - bpodgursky 4y ago
    Snapchat is walking dead fwiw. TikTok is strong, but realistically will be banned across the west next couple years b/c of security problems. You might hate Instagram, and that's very understandable, but it's going to be fine.
    - jeffbee 4y ago
      I used to think this about Snap but then https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2022/08/10/teens-social-media-and-technology-2022/ https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2022/08/10/teens-social...
      - colinmhayes 4y ago
        Problem with snapchat is that no one older than 25 uses it. They've already saturated their user base and stuffed as many ads as they can into the app. There's not really anywhere for them to go and they're still losing money.

seydor 4y ago

It will metastasize

raverbashing 4y ago
They will throw the book right at your face

brentmitchell25 4y ago

They should only keep the engineers that remember how to solve leetcode hard problems /s

nobleach 4y ago
Have you ever interviewed with Facebook/Meta? They don't do leetcode problems. Say what you want about them as a company, but I've done quite a few interviews in my career and their process was one of my favorites.
- bagels 4y ago
  I have. They definitely ask leetcode type of problems.
- fdgsdfogijq 4y ago
  They are notorious for wanting their engineers to spit out memorized solutions of leetcode hards
  - nice_byte 4y ago
    I have interviewed with them more than a single time, and this is simply not true.
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      This thread leaves me wondering if, perhaps, interviewing differs within the organization. Lots of confident "nuh-uh"s on both sides.
      - nice_byte 4y ago
      - nsenifty 4y ago
        They don't ask leetcode questions for Front-end engineers AFAIK. It's mostly practical Javascript/DOM/browser questions. Funnily enough though, I heard once you join as a Front-end engineer, you are pretty much a regular SWE and can join any team and work on any tech, even backend/systems.

arberx 4y ago

Tech is reflexive. Since most tech/saas companies sell/support other saas companies, they all go down. Think about all the startups who rely on AWS, Apple computers, and Facebook ads. What happens when they all die? The tech bull run is over, and we'll find out where the bodies lie soon.

dimgl 4y ago
This is really hyperbolic. Facebook is not even closely comparable to those. Additionally, there's no market indication that won't be a need for services like AWS or hardware provided by Apple. It's really weird how many people seem to _want_ the tech industry to just wither and die. It's unlikely and unrealistic. There may be a sharp correction, but it's unrealistic to think that the behemoths with a moat are going anywhere.
- arberx 4y ago
  No one said anything about tech dying (I said startups), but a repricing for sure. We don't even know the market demand for these products because cheap money has made everyone a startup founder, and every company pivoted to providing a "tech" solution when it might not have been economically viable or provided any profit.
  - andsoitis 4y ago
    > No one said anything about tech dying (I said startups) You wrote: “Since most tech/saas companies sell/support other saas companies, they all go down.”
    - sgerenser 4y ago
      “Go down” presumably meaning stock goes down, not “goes bankrupt.”
- lallysingh 4y ago
  AWS is healthy. Apple is effectively immortal, but will slowly commoditize (10+ yrs) from lack of innovation. Meta/Goog are (eng staff wise) oversized for their output. Both of their leaderships aren't leading very well. Despite the hype and capabilities offered, none of the big players have find ways to use their AI assets. That's a poor indicator of their future. You can almost smell the disruption coming..

beckingz 4y ago

Layoffs time: move quickly and break people.

scarmig 4y ago
If it's likely you'll need layoffs, it's probably best to move as quickly as possible. Otherwise gossip, speculation, and fear have the chance to dominate.
- neon_electro 4y ago
  Just in case you didn't recognize the reference - an early Facebook cultural motto is the phrase "move fast and break things" - a tradeoff favoring product development iteration speed over stable infrastructure. Facebook would then change their motto in 2014 to "move fast with stable infrastructure" [0] - don't know how well that's worked out for them since. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta_Platforms#cite_ref-43 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta_Platforms#cite_ref-43

bin_bash 4y ago

Haven't they already been in a freeze since this spring? Or did they come out of it for a bit?

pinko 4y ago

I wonder what this means for people I know with accepted offers who haven't yet started.

gen220 4y ago
Anecdotally (I have a friend in that situation), no impact as confirmed by their in-house recruiter. But it might depend on whether they were pre-allocated to a team (which I understand is very rare, but it does happen).
moolcool 4y ago
If I were you I would tell them to break off contact because Meta is actively causing irreparable damage to society as we know it.
- filoleg 4y ago
  Yeah, and the reply they would receive from their friend would be a polite request to touch grass. People in the real world use instagram and whatsapp all the time without any moral qualms. The main reason facebook as a product is on a decline is because it is simply not interesting to younger people anymore. And even then, FB still manages to occasionally produce features that capture a lot of the audience back. FB marketplace has been a great hit in terms of replacing craigslist. I am not a Meta employee, and have never been one. But the hate hard-on some people on HN have against Meta just gets really ridiculous at times. We decry echochambers on social media all the time, but are perfectably comfortable falling into ones of our own, without trying to understand how the world outside is really like.
  - dubcee349 4y ago
    Marketplace is getting to be a nightmare of scams on both the buyer and seller side.
  - moolcool 4y ago
    I don't think "touch grass" is an appropriate response to legitimate questions of professional ethics. Comments like this are why I think ethics courses should be mandatory for any CS or engineering degree.

ceejayoz 4y ago

Well, guess that means the multi-year bugs in their API aren't getting fixed any time soon.

blinded 4y ago

passed the code and debugging challenge a month ago. recruiting emails have gone cold, figured this was the case.

hinkley 4y ago

Problem: We will have hired all of the people we could ever hire within 10 years. Solution: layoffs

Ozzie_osman 4y ago

Our startup spends a little bit on Facebook Ads (across FB, Instagram, etc). It's very clear over the past few months that there's trouble in the ads engine. Attribution is a mess, ad efficiency fluctuates randomly, the UI and API are flaky. I don't know whether this is a result of the ios privacy changes, the broader economy affecting ad spend, or internal issues... Maybe a mix. But it's clear that Meta's main revenue engine is a complete mess at the moment. PS it's not just us. We've seen industry-wide data showing that it's a broader issue.

TylerE 4y ago
They've gotten so damn greedy. On the mobile app literally over half my feed is ads.
- dangus 4y ago
  I don’t know if there’s any merit to this idea, but it seems to me that saturation can become a real problem. At this point skipping a story or feed ad in Instagram is like a nearly instant reflex for me. Plus, the programming on the recommendations is laughably amateur for company as resourceful as Meta. If I interact with an ad one time I’ll see the same ad over and over for days or weeks. Sure, I was curious for a second, but it seems strange that Meta can’t tell that I’m not interested anymore just by monitoring basic usage of the UI. At the end of the day the advertiser is the one left paying for these repeated ineffective ad impressions. Somewhat related, I am a little surprised Meta hasn’t tried a Discord-like revenue model where paid annual memberships bestow quality of life and cosmetic social status types of benefits. Even if it wasn’t their main source of revenue it could at least diversify the business and lend some stability to their revenue. Facebook’s revenue per user is less than $10. Discord charges $99/year for Nitro. I feel like Meta has such a one-track mindset on advertising that it doesn’t consider different revenue models for its businesses. Meta spends a lot of time talking about the metaverse but Discord is already the metaverse. Why isn’t there a subscription Meta Quest game pass with Discord-like social features? It’s a no-brainer. Where’s the “pro” paid version of Instagram? Why doesn’t Instagram sell subscription access to things like exclusive camera filters, stickers, and editing tools? I feel like the company is full of missed business opportunities.

moolcool 4y ago

My heart goes out to anybody losing their job, but it's always fantastic to see bad things happening to Meta.

kernel-dump 4y ago
I wonder what the effects of Meta failing would have on society? I can’t think of competing social network for people to migrate to. Would topic forums see a rise in popularity again or would sites like Reddit draw in some of those users.
- chadlavi 4y ago
  Something like this I'd guess https://frinkiac.com/caption/S04E21/888169 https://frinkiac.com/caption/S04E21/888169
- mbrochh 4y ago
  Nothing. I'm pretty sure Meta could disappear from the face of the earth tomorrow and after a week of boredom, people would realise that life is actually much much better without it. (I've been off all Meta services since 3 years).
  - whiplash451 4y ago
    The millions of people using whatsapp for serious matters would beg to differ.
- BeFlatXIII 4y ago
  Perhaps it boots the normies offline
- cetahfh14615 4y ago
  > Would topic forums see a rise in popularity I highly doubt it > or would sites like Reddit draw in some of those users probably. I get the impression reddit is doing more marketing to non tech people, and more people I know have said positive stuff about reddit out of nowhere but also... I feel like this is unrelated, but reddit has seriously gone downhill since what it was in like 2015. It's a good idea but the users make it insufferable

worik 4y ago

This is a well trodden path. They cannot grow forever, nor can the economy. But investors will expect/want monotonic growth. In profits if not in revenue I expect Meta will be closing labs in the USA and opening them in other, cheaper, English speaking companies.

petilon 4y ago

> “I had hoped the economy would have more clearly stabilized by now..” Zuckerberg said. Zuck is blaming the economy, but Meta's real problem is that Apple tightened iOS privacy. Meta had built a business on tracking people, and when iOS tightened privacy, Meta could not target ads as effectively as before.

m00x 4y ago
It's definitely a problem, but the economic downturn is a lot more significant. Meta allegedly got around Apple's privacy rules. I used to work in user tracking, and it's very easy to track people down to near-unique from several metrics.
nostromo 4y ago
Apple tightening privacy while TikTok is eating their lunch... Not to mention the Metaverse is/was a giant distraction.
- kweingar 4y ago
  Not very relevant, but an observation: I've noticed that users on HN like to use the phrase "eating their lunch" to describe the dynamic between TikTok and Facebook. It would be interesting to search HN comments from the past 12 months for "eating their lunch" and analyze what proportion of them refer to TikTok.
  - denkmoon 4y ago
    Why is that remotely notable? It's hardly an uncommon phrase.
    - kweingar 4y ago
      It’s not an uncommon phrase, but it seems like people disproportionately use it in describing this particular situation.
- wollsmoth 4y ago

saos 4y ago

> In prior moves to reduce spending, a dual-camera watch the company was building to compete with the Apple Watch was shuttered. loool > Meta is not the only advertising company to be hit by broader economic challenges. interesting they are referenced as advertising company..

lm28469 4y ago
Is it ? https://www.statista.com/statistics/267031/facebooks-annual-revenue-by-segment/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/267031/facebooks-annual-... https://www.statista.com/statistics/1093781/distribution-of-googles-revenues-by-segment/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1093781/distribution-of-... Meta and Google are advertising companies, their "products" are just a way to: - gather data: whatsapp/messenger, maps, youtube, "like"/"share" buttons, reviews &c. - display ads: google search, youtube, instagram, fb feed - display a "buy" button: google search, youtube, instagram The only "new" products they don't shutdown after a year are products that allows them to gather more data / show more ads / get more "buy" clicks. Everything else get terminated no matter what
abledon 4y ago
who would buy a facebook watch? lol
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
  Right in the name: facebook "watch" -ing you

throwaway34237 4y ago

I wonder what freeze means in this context (paywalled so couldn't see if there was additional context) because I just received a third followup email from a recruiter at Meta..

uladzislau 4y ago

It’s not just Meta, many other companies are on the hiring freeze. Probably the reason is not fulfilled Covid period bets on growth and expansion.

switch007 4y ago

At my company... 1. We're aware of the economic situation and what others companies are doing and are just monitoring 2. We decided to just to ever-so-slightly ease off the gas on hiring. It's definitely not a hiring freeze. Do not use those words. 3. Things are delayed just until the budget is discussed 4. No new hires (still don't call it a freeze) <-- We are here 5. Small amount of layoffs ? 6. Large amount of layoffs ? (1-4 was about 3 weeks.)

kenty 4y ago
I think we work at the same little company. Tbh, we are already kind of at 5., some divisions are getting shut down and people have n months to find a new team. It's a game of musical chairs. While others find him inconsiderate, I appreciate that Zuckerberg is at least not all corpspeak. Too bat he bet on the losing horse with the Metaverse and now has to stay in until either it succeeds or he gets sacked.

disabled 4y ago

Perhaps Zuckerberg should be paid significantly less? Perhaps Facebook employees should fight back? Like protest or leak controversial information, especially since Facebook is in the data hoarding business? But, stuff like this should make Facebook employees angry. Zuckerberg is not a person to envy. Read this: https://www.velvetropes.com/backstage/mark-zuckerberg-house https://www.velvetropes.com/backstage/mark-zuckerberg-house Also, a few years ago Zuckerberg spent like $27 million for his own personal security in a 365 day period, which is obviously obscene. Clearly he is a paranoid dude and certainly he keeps to himself. But, he is a hardcore oligarch, that’s for sure.

m_ke 4y ago
If that grinds your gears check these out: - https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/tech/snapchat-evan-spiegel-house-holmby-hills-1203574331/ https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/tech/snapchat-evan-spieg... - https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/finance/brian-armstrong-house-bel-air-los-angeles-1203445464/ https://www.dirt.com/gallery/moguls/finance/brian-armstrong-...
laweijfmvo 4y ago
Also spent $20m+ for security during the pandemic/lockdown, which the company pays for, while all us plebs sat at home.
cetahfh14615 4y ago
> But, stuff like this should make Facebook employees angry. Zuckerberg is not a person to envy. It's a wonder he hasn't been pushed out yet. I'm pretty sure he's holding enough stock to prevent it from happening, but you have to wonder what kind of internal pressure there is in the Facebook C suite right now

drfuzzy89 4y ago

Is it known whether this sort of hiring freeze affects all levels? I have a friend who's in-progress for a staff role at Meta and I had heard in the past that staff was often "immune to hiring freezes."

loeg 4y ago
"Active interview loops will continue," but also "we will not make any offers until the freeze is lifted." So, go figure. Edit: IC7+ is explicitly not frozen. > The only roles that will remain open are SWE IC7+, Data Center roles, and 2023 Intern, Pathway and AI STE class hiring
- laweijfmvo 4y ago
  Imagine being of IC7+ caliber and voluntarily deciding to jump on this sinking ship. I doubt such a person exists. Might be an opportunity to upsell yourself into an IC7[+] offer, though.
  - zeroonetwothree 4y ago
    Money is still a good motivator
    - dubcee349 4y ago
      But meta is very stock compensation heavy so you are betting on the company stock at least not dropping considerably like the people that joined in august of last year at a $350 per a share price.
      - gilbetron 4y ago
        On the other side, joining when the stock is low is great, since you get more RSUs and a stronger chance of them bouncing back up.
        4y ago

Eumenes 4y ago

they've been over zealous with their hiring for many years, this was bound to happen during economic uncertainty. tack on competition from tiktok, failing metaverse, privacy and political related scandals, and there you have it: a sinking ship

parkingrift 4y ago

Facebook (Meta) cannot innovate. Their growth since inception is almost exclusively through acquisitions. Instagram, WhatsApp, and Oculus. The core Facebook product is arguably worse today than it was 15 years ago. Meta's response to new market entrants is to just copy their features, and when they do attempt to innovate it's just comically off-base (Metaverse). This entire "Metaverse" play is so ridiculous it's deep into meme territory. Meta should have plainly seen the writing on the wall with regard to their data collection and privacy practices but either wouldn't, or more likely couldn't, pivot to new areas. And now Zuck is here saying this hiring freeze is due to the economic situation. Peak comedy. The reality is Meta has no answer for TikTok, BeReal, Apple/Google privacy changes, or whatever else is coming to the market next. I wish Meta nothing but the worst, but I'm sorry for any unfortunate souls who chose to work their and will be out of a job.

cetahfh14615 4y ago
> Facebook (Meta) cannot innovate. Their growth since inception is almost exclusively through acquisitions. Instagram, WhatsApp, and Oculus. Innovation at this point != success Just look at Oracle... they're still alive and doing OK They don't need to at this point. They have FB, IG, WhatsApp, and Messenger That's already a lot to begin with, they could've just coasted and they'd be fine But instead they have their idiot CEO creating PR nightmare after PR nightmare (just look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8q2BQOGRGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8q2BQOGRGE and tell me he isn't a liability) and funneling billions into what's going to be the biggest business mistake of this decade
- parkingrift 4y ago
  Fair point with regard to Oracle, but I’m not sure it’s reasonable to compare an enterprise B2B software company with a consumer business such as Meta. I’d additionally argue that Meta is functionally coasting by way of flailing about on useless products. FB is flatlining, and IG is getting eaten alive by TikTok and BeReal. Oculus is seemingly healthy, and WhatsApp has a dominant and entrenched position. However, what is WhatsApp and Oculus worth if FB and IG fail?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

yuan43 4y ago

> “I had hoped the economy would have more clearly stabilized by now, but from what we're seeing it doesn't yet seem like it has, so we want to plan somewhat conservatively,” Zuckerberg said. A Meta spokesperson declined to comment. The economy is stabilizing. It's being weaned off of ultra-loose money for the first time in years. The stock market is starting to behave more rationally, demanding that a company whose earnings potential is sinking and which offers no dividend be valued accordingly. > ... Meta had more than 83,500 employees as of June 30, and added 5,700 new hires in the second quarter. ... FWIW, 28 % annualized hiring growth for a company the size and age of Meta is not normal. It's a sign of mismanagement and especially loss of focus.

notacoward 4y ago
I get 37% based on what it was when I started in 2017, and that's net over attrition during the same time. Absolutely crazy. They need to not only clear out some deadwood but also change their engineering/evaluation practices so they don't have 10K engineers working on projects that only exist because of NIH syndrome and/or impact whoring.
foobarian 4y ago
And they don't even create (and then quickly retire) random new product. Do they? What would be Meta's equivalent of Stadia?
- typeofhuman 4y ago
  Oculus
  - polyomino 4y ago
    Oculus is a much bigger investment than Stadia
    - wlesieutre 4y ago
      And Facebook didn't create it either

tonymet 4y ago

It should be both reassuring & unsettling to know that even experts can't forecast the future. FB / Meta made two large stock bybacks, one with cash and one with debt, at a very high premium. Just in case you may feel bad for your investments, just remember no one can forecast the future.

kobalsky 4y ago
> FB / Meta made two large stock bybacks, one with cash and one with debt, at a very high premium. I don't know enough to understand if that is clearly a bad move or if maybe they had a different strategy. I mean if they wanted to buyback their own stock it seems that they are not in a position to time the market. Waiting to buy low feels like they are shorting themselves.
- BbzzbB 4y ago
  They did heavy handed repurchases during the quarter where they saw the first active user dip, before announcing it, then barely did any in the following quarter after the stock took a 40% dive. I'm still bullish Meta, but their capital allocation with regards to buybacks was horrendous to say the least.

bilsbie 4y ago

I hope they don’t restructure the fact checking team. Who would protect us?

drummer 4y ago

Every dumpster fire, no matter how intense it burns, eventually dies out.

woeirua 4y ago

Zuck is absolutely going to call back all the remote engineers that he hired over the past two years to the office, and just like with Tesla, those who refuse will be involuntarily separated. Work from home, _is_ going to die at the megacorps.

chrisco255 4y ago
Meta already did this / have been doing this. But I think Meta will suffer more from this choice than the employees let go as a result.
- erikpukinskis 4y ago
  “The Metaverse Company” declaring that they need employees to be physically in the same office would be a damning admission of failure.
UncleMeat 4y ago
This is my fear at Google. I'm now remote for family reasons. If for some reason they decide to do layoffs the "cut the remote staff" approach might feel attractive for foolish execs.
- rosywoozlechan 4y ago
  Lots of smaller companies that have comparable compensation will continue to offer work from home. If a non-FANG position isn't a dealbreaker for you, you can do just fine if Google does end up requiring everyone to go back to the office.
  - UncleMeat 4y ago
    I'm not terribly worried about the entire industry undoing remote work. Mostly I really like my current job.
  - bradlys 4y ago
    > Lots of smaller companies that have comparable compensation Do you mean smaller companies that all have similar compensation to each other or similar to FAANG? Cause very few companies out there are paying $400k+ for senior engineers. People join FAANG mostly for the pay - the brand recognition is just a perk.

SwSwinger 4y ago

Somehow, Meta managed to overhire in low cost of living areas and will likely look at employee overhead when considering where to downsize.

stephc_int13 4y ago

The initially planned expenses for the year were about $95B. I know this is pretty common for those big corporations. But I think that should be put in perspective. At 500M over more than 10 years Star Citizen is considered a scam or a waste of money and at least a proof of mismanagement.

leoqa 4y ago

If only there was a way to save 10B operating expenses

lgleason 4y ago

This is what likely is happening. Zuck and co, just like the Google leaders, need to keep Wall Street happy to try to bolster the stock as much as possible. While I don't know all of the internals of the FB organization, if it is anything like Google, it could probably make the same profit with a fraction of its current headcount. So why was it on a hiring spree? Because it gives the perception of innovation to Wall Street which boosts the stock price. Since they pay a large chunk of their comp in RSU's that is like printing money to further prop up the price of the stock. Does all of that extra headcount actually create real innovation? Some does, but a lot is just fluff to keep Wall Street happy with their perception of innovation while not really moving the needle with profits. Now we are in a bear market and Wall Street is rewarding austerity and fundamentals over speculative spending. The leadership of the company is reacting accordingly. The silver lining is that perhaps this will begin to erode away the nearly monopoly status that companies like Google and Facebook have had in their respective spaces.

bigDinosaur 4y ago

If Meta vanished tomorrow, would it actually have a negative effect on our lives?

bave8672 4y ago
The void in the market would be quickly filled by a competitor (users in other threads have mentioned TikTok...). Whether or not this is a negative is an exercise left to the reader.

chem83 4y ago

Hiring freeze includes hired employees still doing onboarding and going through the matching process. They were told they'll be given random tasks, whatever that means.

seibelj 4y ago

I posted this 2 weeks ago and got downvoted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32827148 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32827148 Google layoffs incoming next

de6u99er 4y ago

I predicted that Facebooks VR/AR gamble won't tak off. Simply because developing virtual content and tools is IMO comparable to game development. Also wearing such a headset for longer time becomes quite uncomfortable. I start sweating under it and most of us here in Europe don't have AC's at home which makes it impossible to use when it's warm. That being said, I am curious how PlayStation5's VR2 will do. I got the one for PS4 and I didn't really use it. I doubt that the new one will do much better because the headset is still large and many people don't have the necessary space at home.

philjohn 4y ago
That assumes that the headsets won't get smaller and lighter over time.
- oblio 4y ago
  If the threshold for the headsets to become comfortable in mainstream conditions is 10-15 years away, their metaverse will fail.
  - philjohn 4y ago
    And yet phones started off big, bulky and with no features and now everyone has a smartphone in their pocket.
    - oblio 4y ago
      I'm not saying that it's impossible. At some point we will reach the "good enough" threshold, that's quite obvious. However your comment completely missed my point. The first mobile phone was made in 1973, 34 years before the iPhone. The first commercially available mobile phone came out in 1983, 24 years before the iPhone. If Zuckerberg bets Meta on the Metaverse, he better be prepared to keep investing with possibly low or no returns for 20+ years. And VR is a much harder problem.

likortera 4y ago

And yet I'm having emails from their recruiters to join them. This company is so pure bullshit an hypocrisy at all levels

siraben 4y ago

During the first week of July, interns were also notified that there would be no return offers for full-time roles. In very few cases a favorable enough rating on their performance reviews led to a full-time offer.

peanuty1 4y ago
I believe most if not all software engineering interns who got a GE performance rating (highest possible rating for interns) received return offers. I think GE is only awarded to the top 5-10% of interns though.

black_13 4y ago

Simon_O_Rourke 4y ago

Knowing a few people who work at Meta, it seems that they're deliberately making work less tolerable, with a view towards getting people to leave of their own accord. I know of three people who've been appointed new bosses within the past month. By all accounts these new managers are all jackasses, and are deliberately nasty in meetings and one-to-ones. Nasty CEO, nastier managers, I've advised anyone in there I know to get out now!

wallace_eyes38 4y ago

The economy is going downhill from now

shetill 4y ago

buro9 4y ago

Zuckerberg becoming Zorg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0mO6UY6uTg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0mO6UY6uTg

intense122 4y ago

I wish they improve products for users. For example, IG on my newest smartphone is the only app which totally freezes on ads stories. You have 80k employees but simple slider in IG desktop version can't keep its position if you close story. Why, it's just a few lines of code. Rather not mentioning content on FB, it was so much better 10 years ago.

_448 4y ago

...working to “manage out people who aren't succeeding,”...? Just say it, rather than use management speak!