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> 'this is good for bitcoin' A total ponzi scam coin crashed. This IS good for Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not Luna nor is it one of the thousands of other garbage sca

> 'this is good for bitcoin' A total ponzi scam coin crashed. This IS good for Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not Luna nor is it one of the thousands of other garbage scam coins. The faster those coins are proven scams the better. Too many people falsely equate "Bitcoin === Crypto".. or "a fan of bitcoin is a fan of all crypto". So I'd bounce this back to you: How is Luna's Ponzi crash NOT good for bitcoin?

parkingrift 4y ago
If people react to the Luna ponzi by exiting crypto or not entering crypto, the price will continue to fall. ...hey, wait... that also sounds like a ponzi.
headsoup 4y ago
Don't look too far into what's backing Tether than, unless that burning is also 'good for Bitcoin.' Lucky, that one has enough vested interest from those making money they'll do an awful lot to stop it following LUNA (inc if you look at the recent depeg)
shkkmo 4y ago
> Too many people falsely equate "Bitcoin === Crypto".. or "a fan of bitcoin is a fan of all crypto". > So I'd bounce this back to you: How is Luna's Ponzi crash NOT good for bitcoin? Doesn't the first line answer the second?
- eric_cc 4y ago
  > Doesn't the first line answer the second? To be clear, you're suggesting: "because people are uneducated about bitcoin and crypto, when one project fails they will incorrectly connect it to bitcoin. And that's bad for Bitcoin." These events are great opportunities to educate ignorant people. > 0 such ignorant people will learn more about bitcoin and why it's not like crypto like Luna. Greater education is extremely good for Bitcoin and bad for scam coins - which rely on ignorance.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    If these are good opportunities to bolster the credibility of BTC et al., the community must just do a very poor job of capitalizing on those opportunities. It is strictly a bad look to have headline after headline affiliating this entire economic sector with fraud, and frankly the shills’ reactions just make the headlines even more unflattering.
    - eric_cc 4y ago
      > headline after headline This has more to do with media and social media thought bubbles. This is no different than any other topic in the news. There are highly intelligent takes out there. But click bait, trolling, and confirmation bias bs rises to the top in certain areas of media and social media.
      - ethanbond 4y ago
        Eh, not really. I know plenty of people first and secondhand who are happy to describe their own participation in or creation of, effectively, scams. Arguably one could call them casino games at best. The dynamics of a speculation-ridden and mostly non-regulated industry makes such moves compelling and easy to rationalize. I too thought there were some interesting “real” things that must be going on somewhere, and surely there are. I figured if there’s one place to find it — or one place it must be found for the sake of the system — it’d be the stablecoins. Then you read into e.g. Tether and realize not only is that a scam, but it’s a transparently obvious one. Again, very bad look for the entire sector.
  - emerongi 4y ago
    Most people investing in crypto just want to put in $1 and take out $2. Trying to educate people about cryptocoins is practically a waste of time at this point - they just don't care. Events like these are bad for Bitcoin on a pure value basis, for anyone invested in Bitcoin. That's just my opinion, though.
    - minsc_and_boo 4y ago
snovv_crash 4y ago
Tell me, what assets exactly are backing BTC which stop it from crashing just like Luna?
- dmichulke 4y ago
  Let's make it clear that the dollar lost more often 99% of its value than bitcoin. And it never recovered. I think this will hold in the future as well. Or are you rather concerned with the volatility? Because surely bitcoin crashed more often 80% than the dollar... So pick your poison...
- thedudeabides5 4y ago
  BTC is not pegged, that's the diff. When you don't claim a value, you don't need a 'backstop.'
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    There were two pieces of this particular crypto asset framework. The first part was Luna, which was a generic coin with no pegging mechanism or backing assets. The second part was Terra, which was a USD-pegged stable coin. The novelty was a guaranteed mint/burn mechanism across the two which was intended to maintain the peg on Terra. As the prior poster correctly asserts, Luna was never pegged.
  - snovv_crash 4y ago
    You always need a backstop, otherwise you only have scarcity and not intrinsic value. Scarcity gives value in a bull market when people want in, but only a backstop gives real intrinsic value in a bear market when people want out. It isn't like you can reverse the mining process and get back the electricity which was used to mint your BTC or something.
- eric_cc 4y ago
  LUNA minted trillions of brand new tokens within the span of a day or so rendering the token worthless. This is due to the way LUNA was tied to the algorithmic stablecoin UST. It was a true ponzi. BTC's max supply is capped and the release schedule of new coins is fixed and predictable. There is no possible way that trillions of new bitcoins could suddenly be created.
loceng 4y ago
What functionality was different between Bitcoin and Luna? Is Luna not run off of Bitcoin? So if Luna could function as a Ponzi scheme, why doesn't Bitcoin inherently have that same capability or function embedded into it? Or is there something preventing that from happening with Bitcoin? Confused.
- eric_cc 4y ago
  Terra (token LUNA) is its own chain. Trillions of brand new LUNA tokens were minted within the span of a day or so rendering the token worthless. This is due to the way LUNA was tied to the algorithmic stablecoin UST. It was a true ponzi. BTC's max supply is capped and the release schedule of new coins is fixed and predictable. There is no possible way that trillions of new bitcoins could suddenly be created.
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    >There is no possible way that trillions of new bitcoins could suddenly be created. That's a slightly strong perspective; it is not impossible; it is merely extremely hard.
    - eric_cc 4y ago
      > it is merely extremely hard. Care to elaborate how it could be done? Even if it were to happen, which it could not, the chain would fork from the moment before the hack and continue on without the hack.
      - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
        Change to Bitcoin Core; hard fork; majority of miners and nodes move to new fork. The only reason we're not calling "Bitcoin Cash" by the name "Bitcoin" is that the last part didn't happen, right?
        eric_cc 4y ago
matheusmoreira 4y ago
> Too many people falsely equate "Bitcoin === Crypto".. or "a fan of bitcoin is a fan of all crypto". It pretty much is. I can open the price graph for any coin and assume the bitcoin movements are similar. Small dip in bitcoin price? Alts get destroyed. Even ethereum gets destroyed.
- dmichulke 4y ago
  I don't suppose you're saying that correlation is causation, right?
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    Nope. Just that I wouldn't bet on any alt being uncoupled from BTC.
- eric_cc 4y ago
  Sure price movements are in sync during general risk on/off pressures. Same can be said about categories of companies in the stock market. e.g. SAAS companies, oil companies, etc move together..
- wallacoloo 4y ago
  Eth fell by about 10% relative to BTC pretty much immediately as the Terra/Luna stuff went south. yeah, there's absolutely connections between all the different currencies out there, but they're not equal strength. it's hard to draw good conclusions from price data just because there's so little of it. the last year's been stable with Eth:BTC confined to within 0.06 - 0.08. but zoom out just one more year and the range triples. over more meaningful durations, the different currencies show a lot less correlation.
  - trompetenaccoun 4y ago
    It's true, when you zoom out it becomes even more apparent that they move independently: https://i.imgur.com/5rZm5Ds.png https://i.imgur.com/5rZm5Ds.png tick tock...
tromp 4y ago
Next you will be suggesting that Tether crashing will be good for bitcoin...
- Ancapistani 4y ago
  It will be, on a long enough time scale. I have USD sitting in an account waiting for that to happen, in fact.
  - jabits 4y ago
    Agree. Unfortunately your USD (and mine) are currently losing about 8% of their value (annualized)…
    - zagfai 4y ago
      Also you would losing 8% if holding cash, or you "invest" something like treasuries, stocks ... but their values would also "fluctuating".
SkipperCat 4y ago
is the demise of Luna a sign that Bitcoin is a survivor or is Bitcoin just the last part of the Titanic still sticking out of the water. Time will tell but I am not bullish on cryptocurrency. Anything can be a store of wealth. NFTs even had their day in the sun but it's hard to stay valuable unless you are providing actual value. So I ask, where' the value in Bitcoin. It used to be a great way to launder money, not so much anymore. It was supposed to democratize finance and allow the individual to not get screwed over by the big banks, but with the amount of rug pulls in crypto, I feel safer at Wells Fargo (and I really hate Wells Fargo). And don't get me started on DeFi. I'd be horrified by it if I just saw one Flash Loan attack but there's so many that I'd never trust my $$$ anywhere near that.
- louloulou 4y ago
  A globally accessible sound money that can be stored in your brain is pretty valuable to me.

parkingrift 4y ago

If people react to the Luna ponzi by exiting crypto or not entering crypto, the price will continue to fall. ...hey, wait... that also sounds like a ponzi.

headsoup 4y ago

Don't look too far into what's backing Tether than, unless that burning is also 'good for Bitcoin.' Lucky, that one has enough vested interest from those making money they'll do an awful lot to stop it following LUNA (inc if you look at the recent depeg)

shkkmo 4y ago

> Too many people falsely equate "Bitcoin === Crypto".. or "a fan of bitcoin is a fan of all crypto". > So I'd bounce this back to you: How is Luna's Ponzi crash NOT good for bitcoin? Doesn't the first line answer the second?

eric_cc 4y ago
> Doesn't the first line answer the second? To be clear, you're suggesting: "because people are uneducated about bitcoin and crypto, when one project fails they will incorrectly connect it to bitcoin. And that's bad for Bitcoin." These events are great opportunities to educate ignorant people. > 0 such ignorant people will learn more about bitcoin and why it's not like crypto like Luna. Greater education is extremely good for Bitcoin and bad for scam coins - which rely on ignorance.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  If these are good opportunities to bolster the credibility of BTC et al., the community must just do a very poor job of capitalizing on those opportunities. It is strictly a bad look to have headline after headline affiliating this entire economic sector with fraud, and frankly the shills’ reactions just make the headlines even more unflattering.
  - eric_cc 4y ago
    > headline after headline This has more to do with media and social media thought bubbles. This is no different than any other topic in the news. There are highly intelligent takes out there. But click bait, trolling, and confirmation bias bs rises to the top in certain areas of media and social media.
    - ethanbond 4y ago
      Eh, not really. I know plenty of people first and secondhand who are happy to describe their own participation in or creation of, effectively, scams. Arguably one could call them casino games at best. The dynamics of a speculation-ridden and mostly non-regulated industry makes such moves compelling and easy to rationalize. I too thought there were some interesting “real” things that must be going on somewhere, and surely there are. I figured if there’s one place to find it — or one place it must be found for the sake of the system — it’d be the stablecoins. Then you read into e.g. Tether and realize not only is that a scam, but it’s a transparently obvious one. Again, very bad look for the entire sector.
- emerongi 4y ago
  Most people investing in crypto just want to put in $1 and take out $2. Trying to educate people about cryptocoins is practically a waste of time at this point - they just don't care. Events like these are bad for Bitcoin on a pure value basis, for anyone invested in Bitcoin. That's just my opinion, though.
  - minsc_and_boo 4y ago

snovv_crash 4y ago

Tell me, what assets exactly are backing BTC which stop it from crashing just like Luna?

dmichulke 4y ago
Let's make it clear that the dollar lost more often 99% of its value than bitcoin. And it never recovered. I think this will hold in the future as well. Or are you rather concerned with the volatility? Because surely bitcoin crashed more often 80% than the dollar... So pick your poison...
thedudeabides5 4y ago
BTC is not pegged, that's the diff. When you don't claim a value, you don't need a 'backstop.'
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  There were two pieces of this particular crypto asset framework. The first part was Luna, which was a generic coin with no pegging mechanism or backing assets. The second part was Terra, which was a USD-pegged stable coin. The novelty was a guaranteed mint/burn mechanism across the two which was intended to maintain the peg on Terra. As the prior poster correctly asserts, Luna was never pegged.
- snovv_crash 4y ago
  You always need a backstop, otherwise you only have scarcity and not intrinsic value. Scarcity gives value in a bull market when people want in, but only a backstop gives real intrinsic value in a bear market when people want out. It isn't like you can reverse the mining process and get back the electricity which was used to mint your BTC or something.
eric_cc 4y ago
LUNA minted trillions of brand new tokens within the span of a day or so rendering the token worthless. This is due to the way LUNA was tied to the algorithmic stablecoin UST. It was a true ponzi. BTC's max supply is capped and the release schedule of new coins is fixed and predictable. There is no possible way that trillions of new bitcoins could suddenly be created.

loceng 4y ago

What functionality was different between Bitcoin and Luna? Is Luna not run off of Bitcoin? So if Luna could function as a Ponzi scheme, why doesn't Bitcoin inherently have that same capability or function embedded into it? Or is there something preventing that from happening with Bitcoin? Confused.

eric_cc 4y ago
Terra (token LUNA) is its own chain. Trillions of brand new LUNA tokens were minted within the span of a day or so rendering the token worthless. This is due to the way LUNA was tied to the algorithmic stablecoin UST. It was a true ponzi. BTC's max supply is capped and the release schedule of new coins is fixed and predictable. There is no possible way that trillions of new bitcoins could suddenly be created.
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  >There is no possible way that trillions of new bitcoins could suddenly be created. That's a slightly strong perspective; it is not impossible; it is merely extremely hard.
  - eric_cc 4y ago
    > it is merely extremely hard. Care to elaborate how it could be done? Even if it were to happen, which it could not, the chain would fork from the moment before the hack and continue on without the hack.
    - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
      Change to Bitcoin Core; hard fork; majority of miners and nodes move to new fork. The only reason we're not calling "Bitcoin Cash" by the name "Bitcoin" is that the last part didn't happen, right?
      - eric_cc 4y ago

matheusmoreira 4y ago

> Too many people falsely equate "Bitcoin === Crypto".. or "a fan of bitcoin is a fan of all crypto". It pretty much is. I can open the price graph for any coin and assume the bitcoin movements are similar. Small dip in bitcoin price? Alts get destroyed. Even ethereum gets destroyed.

dmichulke 4y ago
I don't suppose you're saying that correlation is causation, right?
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  Nope. Just that I wouldn't bet on any alt being uncoupled from BTC.
eric_cc 4y ago
Sure price movements are in sync during general risk on/off pressures. Same can be said about categories of companies in the stock market. e.g. SAAS companies, oil companies, etc move together..
wallacoloo 4y ago
Eth fell by about 10% relative to BTC pretty much immediately as the Terra/Luna stuff went south. yeah, there's absolutely connections between all the different currencies out there, but they're not equal strength. it's hard to draw good conclusions from price data just because there's so little of it. the last year's been stable with Eth:BTC confined to within 0.06 - 0.08. but zoom out just one more year and the range triples. over more meaningful durations, the different currencies show a lot less correlation.
- trompetenaccoun 4y ago
  It's true, when you zoom out it becomes even more apparent that they move independently: https://i.imgur.com/5rZm5Ds.png https://i.imgur.com/5rZm5Ds.png tick tock...

tromp 4y ago

Next you will be suggesting that Tether crashing will be good for bitcoin...

Ancapistani 4y ago
It will be, on a long enough time scale. I have USD sitting in an account waiting for that to happen, in fact.
- jabits 4y ago
  Agree. Unfortunately your USD (and mine) are currently losing about 8% of their value (annualized)…
  - zagfai 4y ago
    Also you would losing 8% if holding cash, or you "invest" something like treasuries, stocks ... but their values would also "fluctuating".

SkipperCat 4y ago

is the demise of Luna a sign that Bitcoin is a survivor or is Bitcoin just the last part of the Titanic still sticking out of the water. Time will tell but I am not bullish on cryptocurrency. Anything can be a store of wealth. NFTs even had their day in the sun but it's hard to stay valuable unless you are providing actual value. So I ask, where' the value in Bitcoin. It used to be a great way to launder money, not so much anymore. It was supposed to democratize finance and allow the individual to not get screwed over by the big banks, but with the amount of rug pulls in crypto, I feel safer at Wells Fargo (and I really hate Wells Fargo). And don't get me started on DeFi. I'd be horrified by it if I just saw one Flash Loan attack but there's so many that I'd never trust my $$$ anywhere near that.

louloulou 4y ago
A globally accessible sound money that can be stored in your brain is pretty valuable to me.