26 ms·
Young women earn more than young men in several U.S. cities
- zdragnar 5y agoNo apparent controls for occupation or education, as is typical for comparing gender incomes. Young women are also having children later in life, and the disparity between women and men enrolling in college and completing degrees (more women than men) has been increasing.
- oh_sigh 5y agoThe most commonly repeated "stat" about gender incomes(84 cents per dollar) also doesn't control for occupation or education.
- OJFord 5y ago> the disparity between women and men enrolling in college and completing degrees (more women than men) has been increasing. Including in higher paying first job degrees, professions, or however you want to make that adjustment? Not disagreeing, just curious. Many on HN probably studied CS or EE with a very male cohort, for example. Is that balanced by a programme(s) (with well-paid graduates) that skews heavily female? Maybe medicine (not as much as EE/CS though surely)?
- nobodyandproud 5y agoYou act as if CS and engineering is a great profession. On the medical side, some numbers and research are in order. Nursing is dominated by women; 90% women, though the trend is slowly decreasing. Nursing is a physically demanding job. Pharmacy school grads are over 60% women and the trend is increasing. I had a harder time finding dentistry numbers but 60% of all practitioners under 44 are women. The trend is increasing. Medical school is 51% women and the trend is increasing. These are highly paid professions with far more stability and prestige than software engineering. Even nursing is on par with the average software engineer, but with more stability. With actual compensation for time worked, you’ll have to exceed L5 to get a meaningful jump ahead of registered nurses.
- OJFord 5y agoI'm not claiming it's number one, just that it's one of 'the professions', degree leads to a job, it pays relatively well. A lot of humanities students are studying just to study (which is fine) without a clear job that it leads to, and many inevitably end up in unrelated roles that don't require their degree and don't compensate for it. I only special-cased EE & CS because that happens to be HN's skew, not because there's something more special about them than some other engineering or science.
- toyg 5y agoMost well-paid jobs now require a degree, no matter what that might be. I'd argue CS/EE are actually outliers in providing a career that will likely fall in the boundaries set by their programmes; many (most?) other people get degrees in something then find jobs in something else. For example, my brother graduated in sports science and is now a project manager.
- chrisseaton 5y ago> Young women are also having children later in life, and the disparity between women and men enrolling in college and completing degrees (more women than men) has been increasing. I think you’re actually re-explaining the outcome of the report, not pointing out a flaw in their methodology.
- ALittleLight 5y agoI think there is a tendency to look at outcomes like this and say that one gender is preferred by the workplace to another - e.g. the usual result, where women are underpaid compared to men, is used to support the conclusion that women are discriminated against in the workforce. However, if you don't consider potentially confounding factors then these conclusions are probably unsupported.
- farmerstan 5y agoIf the same study previously showed that women were paid less than men, but now show they get paid more, does that not show that things have changed? Are you more inclined to believe it when it showed women earned less and more inclined to not believe when it shows they earned more?
- zdragnar 5y agoIt shows they earn more by getting more degrees than men, thus fewer are taking lower paying jobs that women typically dominate outside of degreed work. What it doesn't show is that business are treating women better. Maybe they are, maybe they havent treated them as badly as the wage gap politicians want you to think they still are, and maybe things like paternal leave are starting to make a difference. There's nothing actionable, no way to draw any meaningful conclusion, because it is observing the world through a fog of uncontrolled variables.
- kemayo 5y agoIt does make sense to not control for that, mind you, since you're trying to compare a broad set of societal factors. You can imagine a society in which people with the same occupation+education receive exactly equal pay, and yet one gender (or race, or whatever else) is widely discouraged from entering certain lucrative occupations or receiving certain levels of education in certain fields, for instance. For what it's worth, my understanding is that the gender pay gap still exists even if you do control for these things, albeit it becomes smaller.
- hackernewds 5y agoHere is some nuanced data. It has closed quite a bit https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/the-gender-pay-gap.aspx https://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/the-gende...
- JaceLightning 5y ago> one gender (or race, or whatever else) is widely discouraged from entering certain lucrative occupations or receiving certain levels of education in certain fields, for instance. Has that ever been true? I have heard people say "Men push women out of engineering" but in my experience it's been the opposite--it's been men trying to get women interested in engineering. There are uncountably many WISE, SWE, girls who code, etc. groups that try to encourage women to go into STEM. Women get STEM scholarships that are only available to them.
- tonguez 5y ago"I have heard people say "Men push women out of engineering" but in my experience it's been the opposite--it's been men trying to get women interested in engineering." Of course it's not true. If you majored in CS at a decent university probably 1 or 2 out of 100 students were girls, and in the "labs" the TAs spend the ENTIRE TIME talking to the girls/helping the girls. "Men push women out of engineering" is just a performative statement that means nothing. You will find this in any field where men generally are better at something, like chess. There are plenty of people who whine that "women are pushed out" of chess and so on, and if you ask people to explain that, they can't. It's just pathetic and of course predictable that the same people who can't understand the logical reasons why the demographics of certain groups are the what they are, happen to be bad at activities that require the ability to perform logical operations in their head, like chess, or engineering, etc. All they can do is whine about it emotionally which is the same reason why they can't do engineering or play chess.
- roschdal 5y ago
- crowbahr 5y agoLocal pockets of inconsistency will always occur but the national gap is thankfully getting smaller. This is a good thing. The gap is still 7% overall. Most of the biggest gaps are in small or resort towns: so it kinda makes sense. The closer gaps are in big metros where there is added value to the company to try and pull in from the thinner workforce of women in stem. As more women get into stem there will be less bargaining power and therefore closer to national average for a position. Supply and demand.
- Epiphany21 5y ago>The gap is still 7% overall. Please provide a source. If you're the primary source, please present your findings and methodology. Workplace discrimination like this already illegal and pretty well enforced in the US, so if it's true where are all the lawyers lining up to take the easy cases?
- crowbahr 5y agoDude it's literally the linked article.
- 1over137 5y ago>The gap is still 7% overall. Is that normalized to number of hours worked? Women often work less hours than men.
- cplusplusfellow 5y agoIt’s not normalized for any of the factors that actually determine wages earned by any worker of any gender. So therefore the number is virtually useless, except to identify aggregate level choices made by men and women.
- trashcan02 5y ago> The gap is still 7% overall. Pure fiction, which is why nobody can present a credible analysis to support it. Try this instead: https://hwfo.substack.com/p/graphing-the-gender-wage-gap?s=r https://hwfo.substack.com/p/graphing-the-gender-wage-gap?s=r
- ipnon 5y agoIn the middle class where women graduate college at twice the rate as men, move to big cities for a lucrative career, and delay childbirth until their 30s, women are easily outpacing men in earnings.
- sprash 5y agoWelcome to the world of dysgenics where the brightest and most diligent are not reproducing.
- lotsofpulp 5y agoSociety needs to pay a competitive price relative to their other options.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoExtremely unlikely there will ever be a will to do this considering the long term value to be compensated (hundreds of thousands of dollars per child, if not $1MM). Society is too short sighted and short term financially focused. The world already has almost 8 billion people though (with population momentum landing is at 10B-11B by the end of the century), so I’m hard pressed to argue for more children (and the necessary policy and financial support) when we, in aggregate, already don’t take care of the ones here (no subsidized child care, limited parental leave, half a million kids in foster care at any one time [US], ~120 million unintended pregnancies globally annually, etc). Also consider that in parts of Europe where pro natalist policies are very robust (subsidized childcare, very generous leave policies, and “baby bonuses”), the fertility rate continues to decline regardless. Kids might be valuable to society, but the data supports the idea they are not as important to individuals (opportunity costs, life choices, etc).
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- xyzzy123 5y agoYou could give the parents some kind of benefit(s) proportional to the taxes generated by their children /ducks (Yes, terrible idea for a number of reasons, but the incentives would be aligned...)
- cs702 5y ago...which is not that surprising, because in the US more women than men have graduated from college over the past two decades (roughly): https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/ft_2021.11.08_highered_01.png https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/ft_20... In other words, this is a predictable consequence of the growing female-male gap in college enrollment and graduation rates: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/08/whats-behind-the-growing-gap-between-men-and-women-in-college-completion/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/11/08/whats-behin...
- zitterbewegung 5y agoAlso,the male participation rate is decreasing see https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300001 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300001
- estro0182 5y agoThis chart is insane. I wonder what combination of phenomena this data can be explained by?
- zitterbewegung 5y agoThere is no existing explanation because it is invariant under recessions and other events. The only change that you can see is COVID.
- hackernewds 5y agoWouldn't increasing labor participation by women displace, and also counteract the need for, male labor participation?
- zitterbewegung 5y agoYou are assuming that the amount of jobs are zero sum and I don't think we can answer that question. There are situations where there doesn't have to be displacement such as producing goods faster that require more and more people have to sell the item productive. But, if we would assume that people keep on getting more and more productive due to corporations optimizing for productivity wouldn't we see a drop off of both women and men at the same time? I don't think we would legitimately seem the existing of displacement but actually mutual decreasing.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ddayz 5y agoLooks like if this trend continues to grow we will be talking about the wage gap in a different context in the future.
- dudul 5y agoNo we'll move on to another "problem". We talked about the college gap while women were the minority. Now that they are more than 60% of enrollees no one cares. It will be the same for wages.
- filoleg 5y agoNah, people just switched from being upset about “the college gap” overall, and started driving “the college gap in certain specific degrees (that are tied to high wages, like CS)”. I don’t think the same type of a thing would work for wages, as wages are fairly absolute. Your bank account doesn’t care which degree you had, it cares about the dollar number attached to it.
- bushbaba 5y agoActually I think majority of Americans are not in favor of the diversity programs and affirmative action. It’s detrimental to your career to speak up. I suspect in the next decade progressives will fall out of favor as the masses get fed up.
- paxys 5y agoIf that ever happens the baby gap will be an exponentially larger problem we will have the deal with than a wage gap.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- paxys 5y agoSeveral = 22 (out of 250 in the survey). While it isn't zero, maybe hold off on those men's rights campaigns just yet.
- daenz 5y agoInterested to see, if this trend continues, if heterosexual women will adapt to desire men with less financial success than them.
- filoleg 5y agoI feel like this one is a problem on both ends. Quite many women are not ok with dating men earning less than them, and quite many men are not comfortable dating women earning more than them. From my personal perspective, it is sheer silliness, especially on the part of (a good number of) men. While I don’t agree with it, I can see why someone would be hesitant to date someone earning less than them. But I am struggling to see that many tangible downsides of dating someone earning more than you do. There are, of course, some potential downsides in every situation. But given that men (in general) seem to have no personal qualms about dating women earning less than them, i fail to see why a good number of them would be so vocally opposed to the inverse of it.
- ip26 5y agoCulturally, a lot of the value men bring to the relationship is providership, security, stability. If you as a man don’t even bring that anymore, what do you bring? If you don’t bring anything, are you just another fling?
- tsol 5y agoWe used to say that about women and doing domestic chores. "Well women take care of the kids, provide a stable loving home and warm meals for the family. If they work what do they even bring to a relationship??". It's unfortunate that we can't seem to be so progressive on these things
- ip26 5y agoThat's a very interesting line of thought. Once upon a time if you were not an attractive woman, you could still be a very appealing match if you learned to be a great cook & were great with kids. Now, if you aren't gorgeous, a winning personality is the only play you have left. There might be a really interesting discussion there. Perhaps reduced role of homemaking has increased the pressure of beauty standards on women...
- nwiswell 5y agoInteresting to see Wenatchee, WA at the top of the list. That is (or was) the epicenter of Bitcoin mining in the United States due to some of the cheapest hydro power in the nation. Presumably, there was an influx of young male unskilled labor to set up all those mines, and this statistic was the result. I'd be similarly curious what happened to the local dating scene.
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 5y agoI’m surprised to see that the San Francisco and San Jose metros are so different on this stat (median women’s earnings as percent of median men’s earnings for workers younger than thirty). San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward, CA: 98% San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA: 88%
- acchow 5y agoCheck out the child birth rates between the two areas.
- Beaver117 5y agoMen are slowly realizing this and other gaps
- archhn 5y ago
- adenozine 5y agoI feel like if I showed this comment to your therapist, they'd detain you and try to get you some help. Please do not write things like this where other people can see. It's shocking.
- archhn 5y agoDetain me for dissent? What is so shocking about my comment? Look at the suicide rates. It's highest for middle aged white men. What's going on? And why are you so hostile to dissenting opinions? Edit: my account seems to have been locked and I can't reply to posts here. My original comment contained some harsh truths about gender, which runs contrary to the present groupthink. I'm leaving hacker news for good. The last thing I'll say is that if you keep censoring dissenting opinions, you'll end up in a delusional echo chamber. This will take you further and further away from reality until you are completely unadapted to the world as it is and become completely impotent in your attempts to navigate it. Those who oppose you do you a huge service by doing so. If you crush your opposition, you'll also destroy yourself.
- ecf 5y agoUnfortunately this is hacker news where even upvoted comments are flagged and removed if they go against the hive mind.
- Freestyler_3 5y agoTurning more into reddit.
- globular-toast 5y agoThe prevailing theory for the past couple of decades at least is the world has been built for and generally favours men. But when someone suggests the exact same theory to explain why women are doing better you say they should be detained for mental illness?
- enw 5y agoSociety should stop shunning masculinity and dismissing men’s problems. Teach young boys they can be strong, respectable men and they will prosper.
- swalls 5y agoWhat exactly makes you comment as if woman gaining equality means men have lost something? Surely, in an even society, this is a good headline, unless you're pining for more patriarchal days.
- ip26 5y agoEquality would be “young women earn the same as young men”. Unless you are banking on some cities favoring women while others favor men long term.
- enw 5y agoEqual opportunity (not equal outcome) is good. What I'm worried about is that this correlates with the wider societal trend of positive discrimination in favor of women (hence discrimination against men) and dismissal of men and their issues.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- 5y ago
- FredPret 5y agoThis surprises exactly no-one who has ever lived in the downtown area of a big city. The number of young women there is vastly more than young men, except perhaps in a few edge cases
- IshKebab 5y ago1. The raw number of women wouldn't mean their average earnings are somehow more. 2. "Vastly" is clearly not true. Maybe you just look at women more? 3. This is only true in 22/250 cities so.
- FredPret 5y agoFair point regarding the average. But I stand by "vastly". Dating as a male who is breathing and can tie his shoelaces in downtown Toronto was absurdly easy due to the skew in numbers.
- DangitBobby 5y agoYou might be overestimating your peers' ability to find a date relative to your own.
- FredPret 5y agoNo, I'm comparing to my own previous track record. Unless men get drastically more date-able as they age, which might also be true.
- ShamelessC 5y agoYou don't see any problems with that statistically?
- FredPret 5y agoThere’s no question of statistics here, it is clearly an anecdote from personal experience that lines up with the original stats
- Zigurd 5y agoMore women getting more university degrees is why this is so. This is one reason why it is a bad idea to locate a business that depends on intellectual capital in a state that denies women bodily autonomy, and that is generally hostile to anything other than "traditional" gender roles. Doing so further disadvantages recruitment.
- josh_today 5y ago
- CyberRabbi 5y agoDue to the phenomenon of Hypergamy this will likely have a negative effect on pairing and fertility.
- tyjen 5y agoSociety is in the fuzzy space where discriminatory pressure men face exceeds the perceived privilege in many areas of society. When discrimination continues in excess of actual privilege (not perceived privilege), it's no longer about equality or equity and turns into corruption, because equality or equity would turn to support men in these cases of disparity. For example, women are heavily overrepresented in the veterinarian field, in some cases representing 90 percent of current veterinarian students. When an Australian university decided to offer a single scholarship with preferences for rural and male students to try to balance representation. The female vet students were absolutely shocked and horrified, despite several female scholarships existing concurrently. Privilege as an absolute, ubiquitous, end-all and be-all trait pegged to immutable characteristics is turning into a mythological construct to justify continued discriminatory practices benefiting groups allowed to collectively act in their favor. Even many of the numerous articles or studies supporting discriminatory behavior are often specious at best. In reality, privilege is a holistic measurement that changes with localized community composition. Applying discriminatory policies with broad strokes at this point is unjustified and negatively discriminatory. Society could do better, but it's deciding not to.
- tonguez 5y ago
- UncleMeat 5y agoIt looks like in the huge majority of metro areas, women still earn less than men. I'm not so sure that women outperforming men in some areas is cause for alarm.
- epicureanideal 5y agoVery well written, and I completely agree. But how can we have this discussion as a society when anyone attempting to discuss it is shouted down as a bigot? (Which is odd because it’s unfair discrimination we’re trying to fix.) In our workplaces it is acceptable to promote one side of the argument, which is declared by HR to be morally virtuous, but promoting the other side of the argument would quickly lead to termination. Outside the workplace, any attempt to organize or speak out on this topic will similarly be intentionally misinterpreted and then the mob will demand the person be fired. I’m not sure how we resolve this when only one half of the discussion is allowed.
- fortran77 5y agoWhat are we going to do to achieve equity in these cities?
- xanaxagoras 5y agoThe goal is to diminish men, always has been. Equity is a marketing ploy.
- kelseyfrog 5y agoThis is a point-in-time update on a much larger trend. The predominance of dual-earner households is being supplanted by female breadwinner households[1]. Predicting the future is always challenging, but the changes here appear to be accelerating, not declining. Looking back on the disintegration of corporate family economics, and male breadwinner family economies, imagine the seismic shift involved in the establishment of female breadwinner family economies. The opportunities to capitalize on the second-order effects here are astronomical. 1. Fig 10. Marriage, Family Systems, and Economic Opportunity in the USA Since 1850 http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.738.7363&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.738...
- rednerrus 5y agoSome of us have been predicting this for 20 years. The pendulum has swung way too far to the other side.
- newsclues 5y agoWeren’t there big campaigns about the gender pay gap recently? I thought they said women made a fraction of what men earn?
- ravenstine 5y agoPeople are assuming this is possibly a bad thing. How do we know that young men today don't lack the interest in monetary success that may have been possessed by their elders? I know I'm not the only guy who's made it to "senior" level in their career and realized that money doesn't make up for time spent with people and fulfilling activities. This isn't to say there aren't other factors at play, or disadvantages specifically towards men, but earning more money isn't the end-all-be-all of success. Many wealthy people are actually miserable, and the suicide rate for women has also been increasing (yes, along that of men, but still). How do we know that women are proportionally reaching more life satisfaction, or that men aren't?
- quickthrower2 5y agoIs this just data mining?
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 5y agoI’d urge people to read the article before jumping into the comments on this one. So many comments are just plain counter to the data, arguing over questions that are literally this one click away. It’s a short and to the point data article. For example, the headline is referring to 22 out of 250 metro areas.
- greatpostman 5y agohttps://archive.ph/5sD80 https://archive.ph/5sD80 The Boston globe has an article out about all the single women in their 30s who never found a partner. The hypothesis being there are fewer and fewer men who match them in professional/career success, which stops them from settling down.
- johndfsgdgdfg 5y agoAnd here I am, a man of color, highly educated, very well paying jobs. And very unsuprisingly, almost no dates.
- yongjik 5y ago> In fact, in 22 of 250 U.S. metropolitan areas, women under the age of 30 earn the same amount as or more than their male counterparts ... In other words, in 228 of 250 US metropolitan areas, women under the age of 30 earn less than their male counterparts. Why is everybody reacting so weirdly?
- ducttapecrown 5y agoThis forum is majority male tech workers and has been weird (aka reactionary to the dismantling of the patriarchy) since I've been reading it in 2016. I don't know what the cause of the weirdness is though.
- jsnodlin 5y ago
- notsureaboutpg 5y ago
- ShamelessC 5y ago
- Banana699 5y ago'Patriarchy' is just a dumb conspiracy-theoritic ideological framework for viewing society that starts with "women are victims" and back-propagates that to whatever beliefs and assertions needed to make it true. HN is mostly non-political compared to other Social Media forums in my experience, but if it's skeptic against that dumb conspiracy theory, then that's Good News. >I don't know what the cause of the weirdness is though. Might I suggest that you're reacting favorably to young men earning less and having the deck stacked against them even more and more, calling it the 'dismantling of the patriarchy'? perhaps that is making people a little bit weird?
- BlargMcLarg 5y ago>I don't know what the cause of the weirdness is though. Because "dismantling the patriarchy" isn't what is happening to begin with, and the current actions are coming at the cost of young men. Meanwhile, it is questionable whether young women are getting much better from it.* There are many variables compounding on one another which are very difficult to interpret, despite people on both sides of the debate claiming they can. The majority of people are still ruled primarily by a bunch of rich men. The majority of people are women and men. This hasn't changed at all. What has changed is the giant sandwich of men and women between the poorest of the poor and the richest of the rich shuffling around, while they also have a smaller piece of the pie as a whole. *: Yes obviously not being dependent on others is a good thing. However, there is an underlying connotation that women are better off in the workforce than they are doing what they would do as of old. Considering many other social factors at play, there is enough reason to doubt this.
- jelliclesfarm 5y ago
- quantum-crt 5y agoWhat is "the third gender?"
- jelliclesfarm 5y agoThird gender: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender [..] Third gender is a concept in which individuals are categorized, either by themselves or by society, as neither man nor woman. It is also a social category present in societies that recognize three or more genders. The term third is usually understood to mean "other", though some anthropologists and sociologists have described fourth and fifth genders.[..]
- jelliclesfarm 5y agoAbout my original now flagged/down voted comment that I can’t reply to anymore…I understand that my comment is unpalatable to many. But why can’t we talk about it? It’s like having a door shut instead of saying No. If we can sort out the fundamental inequality and unfair playing ground, then we don’t have to argue ad nauseum ad infinitum about unequal pay. Discuss it. Please. If not with me, amongst yourselves in your safe spaces. For your children and future generations’ sakes. Status Quo is damaging for our futures.
- shrimp_emoji 5y agoI read your post before it was flagged. Have you ever played Civ: Beyond Earth? You're like the Purity faction, who bends all new technology around human whims and limitations (dome cities, big anthropomorphic mechs), solving the issue by segregating genders into silos where their whims and limitations are directly catered to. There's two other factions in the game, Supremacy and Harmony, both of which are transhuman, who transcend their human whims and limitations and exploit and adapt to new technologies on the technologies' novel terms. Purity is comfier and easier, but I think it's a net retardation of growth and development. (It's certainly a regression in terms of liberal egalitarianism.) That future is stagnation. Transcendence is the key. We should all become third gender. (Just kidding. I had nothing else to end with. By the way, your emphasis on "third gender" is pretty unusual to me. Do you mean non-binary people? Or are you using it as some TERFy catch-all for trans people? :p)
- xyst 5y agoThere needs to be a law which requires full disclosure of salaries/wages/earnings of all employees for US companies. It's hard to address this issue when the data itself is self reported. For example, most sales positions are paid out based on sales performance rather than salary. So if a man reports "I earned $200K in 2021" and a woman at the same place reports "I earned $150K in 2021", it would look like a "gender pay gap". Yes, I agree there are certain areas where gender pay gap exists and there are definitely some reports of it in news reports. But I want to know if it's a cultural issue at these companies or if it's a widespread problem nation wide.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ducttapecrown 5y agoHere's a screenshot of the data linked in the article, sorted by women's worker population. https://ibb.co/WWMQgQn https://ibb.co/WWMQgQn
- xenihn 5y agoSomething I want HN's thoughts on: Does a 7% pay gap matter more or less between low incomes and high incomes? I'm looking at the bar chart with median annual earnings and a earnings gap percentage. The first gap is 7% (misleadingly labeled as 93%...), which does seem somewhat high. But then it's for $33,598 vs $31,288. A difference of $2310, an amount that your average Bay Area FAANG SWE earns in two workdays or less (when counting amortized RSU vesting and bonuses). You could argue that every single dollar matters for someone in that bracket. But what about when the 7% difference hits someone who is making over $500k a year in the Bay Area? Then it's a $40,000 swing. Most of that will get eaten up by taxes anyways. Which one is worse? I would say the $2310 difference, since the $40,000 is really closer to $20,000 after taxes, and having $220,000 a year after taxes vs. $200,000 doesn't make a huge difference when you're competing for homes that cost $2 million dollars or more. It would sound way worse with the title "x outearn y by $40,000 a year in the Bay Area", but only to people who don't realize how bonkers the financial scales are here in comparison to developing parts of the country.
- dijonman2 5y agoAs a white male it’s becoming increasingly difficult to find a lucrative position and on top of that the salaries are going down due to bs politics.
- shadowofneptune 5y agoThat comments like these are so popular on such a simple article is an example of why HN has a reputation.
- daniel-cussen 5y agoGreat. Actually great. This is what equality approximately looks like, not equal in all cities, some more for men, others more for women, just because there's different industries and tons of random variables, but equal overall.
- cosmiccatnap 5y ago
- frob 5y ago"Several" is doing some very heavy lifting here. According to the paper cited, it's 22 out of 250 metro areas (or 9%). Another way to put this is that in the vast majority of metro areas, young women DO NOT earn more than young men. Even when you look at the areas where young women do outearn young men, it is not by a lot. For example, in the NYC area, young women earn 102% of what young men do. To my ear, that's parity.
- mgaunard 5y agoThe pay gap only exists if you look at average pay for men vs women. Make it so that we only compare people with comparable skill sets and jobs and it magically disappears.
- diebeforei485 5y agoI think within 2% (roughly 5K per year, for a recent grad earning $250K) shouldn't be an issue to shout about.
- stasy 5y agoIf men and women have equal pay, does that mean all fathers should get same amount of paternity leave as women get with maternity leave?