14 ms·

100% agreed. I could also buy a test prep book on amazon plus get a few others from the school and public libraries for a grand total of $15 spent on test prep.

by sparrc 5y ago

100% agreed. I could also buy a test prep book on amazon plus get a few others from the school and public libraries for a grand total of $15 spent on test prep. That's a lot cheaper than dedicating my working summer to smarmy volunteer/extra-curricular projects.

VWWHFSfQ 5y ago
I went to high school in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and almost all of the top academic students in my class were first or second generation immigrants (mostly Indian) that had no interest in extra-curricular activities like sports, band, choir, or really anything. It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live.
- mxkopy 5y ago
  >the society in which they live. Which society? The one that has mass shootings on a regular basis but makes gun ownership a viable identity? Or the one praises love and peace while buying clothes made in sweatshops? >especially immigrants not their fault Rutesh has maidens and you don't
- csa 5y ago
  > It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores This is very unlikely to happen for East Asians or Indians. > and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live. This “trivial” stuff is often not trivial when done well. - Sports, especially varsity athletics and Olympic sports, has social currency in elite circles. Some folks may not like the fact that this is true, but it’s foolish to deny that it’s true. In some cases, participation in sports actually develops character leadership skills. - The things some high school students are able to do as “volunteers” can blow your mind. The soft skills that these activities can develop carry over really well to the “real world”. Lots of extracurriculars are BS, but the folks who do the BS ones aren’t getting into elite schools based on those. - If I understand what you are saying, suggesting that immigrants should not need to have the skills to participate in society is mind boggling to me. Elite schools aren’t just looking to churn out brainiacs (and the real brainiacs are getting in on more brainy stuff than high SAT scores and perfect grades). They are looking to churn out people who will impact society. Honestly, some sort of impressive community involvement in the Indian community (as an example) is something that would be a strong part of an elite school application.
  - mxkopy 5y ago
    >This “trivial” stuff is often not trivial when done well. I loathe to say it but you've been got. Reread the OP in a sarcastic tone, you'll see what I mean. I agree with what you're saying but in the spirit of disagreeing with OP, I would devilishly advocate: When evaluating extracurriculars, there is a chance that the type of extracurricular may matter as much/more than the degree of participation, which can be problematic. In theory, colleges are just a place where you go to learn. So it doesn't make much theoretical sense to me that an admissions officer would probably think different things when they hear "rugby captain and president of the debate club" as opposed to "full time brother and avid programmer." That's because traditionally, colleges are also where children of privilege learn what the status quo is and how to fit in with one another. Of course we have to measure something other than SAT scores (i.e. IQ), we have to measure how nice they are/capable of leading/willing to learn (i.e. how white they can act/how much their parents know about and push them towards traditional leadership positions/how much free time their family can afford). To some degree, it isn't in the interest of the college to admit someone who isn't also a cultural fit; but the more important culture is in your selection process, the more problematic that process is.
- noduerme 5y ago
  >> and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live. That's a nasty bit of what I assume to be sarcasm
- yes_really 5y ago
  > It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live. I genuinely thought your comment was serious before reading other comments and realizing you were being sarcastic. It actually *is* important that these people can get into these schools. If they are studying and working diligently they will contribute to society. If you need them practicing sports or singing in choir for you to understand that they can participate in society, then that is your failure on assessing students.
- linksnapzz 5y ago
  If you recast your civilization as simply the sum total of the economic activity generated by fungible worker-units, that's the sort of thing you get. A giant. somewhat dilapidated luxury shopping mall with a military attached.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    I suppose you also get lazy cultural analysis like this from armchair patriots...
    - linksnapzz 5y ago
      Concise, not lazy. Brevity is the soul of wit.
  - orzig 5y ago
    There are a lot of negative things that one can imply about America, so I'm surprised that you reached for 'boring'. I don't even know what source to cite, but it seems self-evident that Americans care passionately about causes besides economic efficiency, for better or worse. Trying to find some objective ground for discussion, I'll take the bait on your specific analogy: Americans are spending progressively less time in shopping malls[1] and the military[2]. [1] https://www.jeremykisner.com/shopping-malls-will-they-become-extinct/ https://www.jeremykisner.com/shopping-malls-will-they-become... [2] https://www.newsmax.com/us/army-recruitment-reduction-military/2022/03/28/id/1063243/ https://www.newsmax.com/us/army-recruitment-reduction-milita...
    - harry8 5y ago
      >Americans are spending progressively less time in shopping malls[1] and the military[2]. [1] Are Amazon, ebay et al shopping malls? Given healthcare and college tuition being paid by the state I think you might see [2] drop very, very fast and far. I've heard the argument made that this was why the establishment corrupt of Washington united so cohesively against Bernie.
      - 5y ago
- darth_avocado 5y ago
  >It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live. So you're saying only studying and not doing anything else to eventually become a doctor that serves a community in Dallas doesn't demonstrate enough participation in society as much as being able to play a sport? And don't get me wrong, extra curriculars are important, but the simplistic reduction of immigrants studying hard equates they don't participate in the society is a bit much.
  - throwawaygh 5y ago
    > So you're saying only studying and not doing anything else to eventually become a doctor that serves a community in Dallas doesn't demonstrate enough participation in society as much as being able to play a sport? To be fair, it is Texas. Plus, he also mentioned band. Someone needs to play in the halftime show, after all.
- ramraj07 5y ago
  So someone who plays drums in band or throws an egg shaped “ball” (or worse, hits themselves in the head like rams) is contributing to the society than someone who focuses on tests? I’m not even on the side of the Asian families that force their children to study and study alone, but your comment seems to suggest that somehow they don’t have the right to (or are abusing a system). Sounds a bit prejudiced. In the end families which want their kids to “look successful” will make them do whatever is needed, and merely focusing on studies is just one flavor. Look at the Tiger mom bs about Carnegie Hall or Yale law. But at the least they are fully American in their right to do so, and I’d rather have more of them than broken families with kids not even being taken care of.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    I think it was intended to be prejudiced - he was sarcastically saying that the parents don't care about integrating into the culture, they think they can attain success for their children with tests alone. I'm a child of Jewish immigrants. I had NO planned school/extracurricular activities except for music. I had these requirements from elementary school through high school: (1) Never get less than a B+ on any test or any class, or you're grounded. (2) Read 50 pages of books my father would assign every night, some light fiction, some history, everything in between, and spend 15 minutes reporting what I read to him. (3) No television or video games. A computer was okay as long as I was using it to "work", which could mean writing my own video games. (4) Find a job the day you turn 15, and work every day. Any job you want. Ideally something that deals with the public, like selling shoes. (I went into advertising). Now, some of my best friends in high school were Korean immigrants. They had a lot more fun than me, but they also studied a lot harder for tests. By no means would I ever think their parents were doing it wrong. What this sarcastic poster means about the society you live in, is ultimately very shady. The society he lives in is lazy. It doesn't want to study or work. It cries foul when people ask for "welfare handouts", but meanwhile, he is asking for a welfare handout from us the people who work and study harder - by means of claiming it's his culture and we're just here doing all the math right while failing to integrate. That's just not true. It's sour grapes from someone who has been eclipsed in all areas of intellectual and artistic achievement, and is likely to soon be eclipsed in the realm of popular culture as well. So anyway /rant over. I wouldn't take it too seriously. Just keep doing what you do well.
- rayiner 5y ago
  The notion of a “well rounded student” who does music, art, and extra curricular activities, is a legacy of blue blood WASP culture. That is not to say that I think only test scores should matter. But the kinds of extracurriculars colleges value—in particular that they don’t value having a job or working in the farm—smacks of old money ideals.
  - noduerme 5y ago
    When they talk about well rounded students: They do value working on a farm. Or going to Guatemala and building wells for people. Or construction work building houses. It's definitely not just about doing ballet and fine arts. I was the only kid in my class who didn't go to college, but I went to one of the top 3 prep schools in terms of Ivy League placement in the country, and the entire focus for extracurricular activities was doing volunteer work. Sports, music, fine art and theater were all there as a potential route, but the advisers pushed kids who wanted to do those things as a career away from leaning on them as a way to be "well-rounded" in the eyes of the college admission boards. TL;DR In my experience, a kid who had no creative talent but took a summer to build houses in Ecuador was much more likely, in the 90s, to get into the Ivy League than one who played violin, or football.
    - rayiner 5y ago
      > TL;DR In my experience, a kid who had no creative talent but took a summer to build houses in Ecuador was much more likely, in the 90s, to get into the Ivy League than one who played violin, or football. And how is a lower middle class kid in the Midwest supposed to be able to swing a summer off to build houses in Ecuador?
      - tiahura 5y ago
        Reddit has plenty of discussions about this. Church groups would be one option. Or, Kayak shows round trip flights this summer from Cincinnati to Ecuador for $500. So, Set up a table outside the local grocery store for a few weekends with pictures of starving Ecuadorans and beg. Or, gofundme. I think the key is initiative, which is one of the main traits they’re looking for.
- fma 5y ago
  That was probably accurate "back in the day". My wife owns/runs an after school learning center and I can say that 1st/2nd generation take extra-curricular activities very seriously. That is not to say academic is out the window, but academics is not the only interest. As a matter of fact - I wrote a letter of recommendation for someone to volunteer at the library. Due to the competitive nature (I live in an area with lots of 1st/2nd generation, especially Indians)...she did not get a position. Imagine competing to work for free!
  - aj7 5y ago
    Yes. Preparing for internship culture. Your wife’s hamsters pay to run on the hamster wheel. And your family benefits!
    - noduerme 5y ago
      Cultures that value education also value unpaid internships. It's an excellent trade. Free education in exchange for free labor. Yes, this has been extremely exploited in America, particularly in tech, where it has: - Created a sense that some work should be "free", hiding the true cost of labor from employers - Turned students into an endless pool to be exploited - Undercut the wages of professionals That being said, the answer is for the student interns to recognize when it's time for them to be paid and to demand it. A lot of Americans think interning is just about getting your "foot in the door" so you "know the right people" and get a leg up on a cushy job. That's simply not the way immigrant families think. There is a value proposition to interning for free when you're learning a trade. It's how I started. When I came to feel I was being exploited, I asked for money, and got it. >> Preparing for internship culture This quote itself implies that you're not willing to put in the effort other people are willing to put in. So now, as an employer, why would I hire someone who didn't feel like putting in the extra work for their resume? I suppose you're owed a job - but then, isn't everyone?
      - aj7 5y ago
        I think you are right. The correct comparison is internship vs. no opportunity at all, not internship vs. job. The actual number of real jobs is driven by revenue.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  > and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live How many DFW public schools have cricket or kabaddi teams? How many bands and choirs play primarily non-European music? Are you sure that these students are one dimensional boring test-takers with absolutely no interest in being part of their community? Could it possibly be that many are very active members of a vibrant and deeply rooted immigrant community, but that this community involvement doesn't show up because they aren't either playing in a football game or putting on a half time show for a foot ball game? (I'm also deeply skeptical that participating in band, choir, extra-curricular activities, or sports is actually indicative of much of anything in terms of community participation... playing unorganized pick-up games with friends feels much more participatory than leveraging the well-oiled pre-college apparatus of an upper middle class neighborhood to check the "scholar-athlete" box.)
  - mitchdoogle 5y ago
    Playing organized pickup, or participating/organizing activities for your immigrant community are the same as extra curricular activities. They do prove that a student is not just one dimensional test taker
- delaynomore 5y ago
  >almost all of the top academic students in my class were first or second generation immigrants (mostly Indian) that had no interest in extra-curricular activities like sports, band, choir, or really anything. I suspect it's more like their parents prohibit them from having any interest in these extra-curricular activities. Academics > *.
  - mitchdoogle 5y ago
    Ya it's hard to imagine teenagers have no interest in doing things outside of schoolwork
- mitchdoogle 5y ago
  They sound like dull people.
- sn41 5y ago
  Your take is very strange, and does not correspond to the Indian immigrant experience from what I have seen. I spent 10 years in the US, and the really weird part is how stridently Indian parents would push their kids to train in Indian culture - particularly classical dance like Bharatanatyam and Carnatic classical. Of course, since Westerners have hardly even heard about these cultural forms, these do not even exist as "extra-curriculars" for standard university admission boards. I found the emphasis on Indian cultural roots so disturbing that I had to weasel out of conversations by saying "I don't know anything about classical dance, I am mostly interested in science-fiction". It is easier to have your own way as an Indian middle-class student in India than as second generation Indians in the US.
  - plibither8 5y ago
    > It is easier to have your own way as an Indian middle-class student in India than as second generation Indians in the US. Being an Indian middle-class student in India myself, I'm not sure you understand the level of privilege from which you're making that statement.
  - novok 5y ago
    It's because they don't want their children to lose their indian culture, despite raising them in a foreign country. When your in india, you don't have to worry about that.
- chrisweekly 5y ago
  It's a bit difficult to interpret your comment, but it comes across as bitter, sarcastic and prejudiced.
- bpodgursky 5y ago
  I'm a 5th-generation white American with no interest in sports, band, or choir... and many of my Indian and east Asian first-generation high-school friends and I participated in activities like math club, knowledge bowl, science olympiad, etc etc. Just because they aren't participating in YOUR extra-curricular activities doesn't mean they aren't engaged.
- robwwilliams 5y ago
  LOL: that was said with straight-faced irony. “…based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live.”
tomc1985 5y ago
What is the point of these tests if people can just test prep their way through it? The result is not indicative of their true selves, it is simply yet another horrible facade.

by sparrc 5y ago

VWWHFSfQ 5y ago

I went to high school in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and almost all of the top academic students in my class were first or second generation immigrants (mostly Indian) that had no interest in extra-curricular activities like sports, band, choir, or really anything. It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live.

mxkopy 5y ago
>the society in which they live. Which society? The one that has mass shootings on a regular basis but makes gun ownership a viable identity? Or the one praises love and peace while buying clothes made in sweatshops? >especially immigrants not their fault Rutesh has maidens and you don't
csa 5y ago
> It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores This is very unlikely to happen for East Asians or Indians. > and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live. This “trivial” stuff is often not trivial when done well. - Sports, especially varsity athletics and Olympic sports, has social currency in elite circles. Some folks may not like the fact that this is true, but it’s foolish to deny that it’s true. In some cases, participation in sports actually develops character leadership skills. - The things some high school students are able to do as “volunteers” can blow your mind. The soft skills that these activities can develop carry over really well to the “real world”. Lots of extracurriculars are BS, but the folks who do the BS ones aren’t getting into elite schools based on those. - If I understand what you are saying, suggesting that immigrants should not need to have the skills to participate in society is mind boggling to me. Elite schools aren’t just looking to churn out brainiacs (and the real brainiacs are getting in on more brainy stuff than high SAT scores and perfect grades). They are looking to churn out people who will impact society. Honestly, some sort of impressive community involvement in the Indian community (as an example) is something that would be a strong part of an elite school application.
- mxkopy 5y ago
  >This “trivial” stuff is often not trivial when done well. I loathe to say it but you've been got. Reread the OP in a sarcastic tone, you'll see what I mean. I agree with what you're saying but in the spirit of disagreeing with OP, I would devilishly advocate: When evaluating extracurriculars, there is a chance that the type of extracurricular may matter as much/more than the degree of participation, which can be problematic. In theory, colleges are just a place where you go to learn. So it doesn't make much theoretical sense to me that an admissions officer would probably think different things when they hear "rugby captain and president of the debate club" as opposed to "full time brother and avid programmer." That's because traditionally, colleges are also where children of privilege learn what the status quo is and how to fit in with one another. Of course we have to measure something other than SAT scores (i.e. IQ), we have to measure how nice they are/capable of leading/willing to learn (i.e. how white they can act/how much their parents know about and push them towards traditional leadership positions/how much free time their family can afford). To some degree, it isn't in the interest of the college to admit someone who isn't also a cultural fit; but the more important culture is in your selection process, the more problematic that process is.
noduerme 5y ago
>> and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live. That's a nasty bit of what I assume to be sarcasm
yes_really 5y ago
> It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live. I genuinely thought your comment was serious before reading other comments and realizing you were being sarcastic. It actually *is* important that these people can get into these schools. If they are studying and working diligently they will contribute to society. If you need them practicing sports or singing in choir for you to understand that they can participate in society, then that is your failure on assessing students.
linksnapzz 5y ago
If you recast your civilization as simply the sum total of the economic activity generated by fungible worker-units, that's the sort of thing you get. A giant. somewhat dilapidated luxury shopping mall with a military attached.
- noduerme 5y ago
  I suppose you also get lazy cultural analysis like this from armchair patriots...
  - linksnapzz 5y ago
    Concise, not lazy. Brevity is the soul of wit.
- orzig 5y ago
  There are a lot of negative things that one can imply about America, so I'm surprised that you reached for 'boring'. I don't even know what source to cite, but it seems self-evident that Americans care passionately about causes besides economic efficiency, for better or worse. Trying to find some objective ground for discussion, I'll take the bait on your specific analogy: Americans are spending progressively less time in shopping malls[1] and the military[2]. [1] https://www.jeremykisner.com/shopping-malls-will-they-become-extinct/ https://www.jeremykisner.com/shopping-malls-will-they-become... [2] https://www.newsmax.com/us/army-recruitment-reduction-military/2022/03/28/id/1063243/ https://www.newsmax.com/us/army-recruitment-reduction-milita...
  - harry8 5y ago
    >Americans are spending progressively less time in shopping malls[1] and the military[2]. [1] Are Amazon, ebay et al shopping malls? Given healthcare and college tuition being paid by the state I think you might see [2] drop very, very fast and far. I've heard the argument made that this was why the establishment corrupt of Washington united so cohesively against Bernie.
    - 5y ago
darth_avocado 5y ago
>It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live. So you're saying only studying and not doing anything else to eventually become a doctor that serves a community in Dallas doesn't demonstrate enough participation in society as much as being able to play a sport? And don't get me wrong, extra curriculars are important, but the simplistic reduction of immigrants studying hard equates they don't participate in the society is a bit much.
- throwawaygh 5y ago
  > So you're saying only studying and not doing anything else to eventually become a doctor that serves a community in Dallas doesn't demonstrate enough participation in society as much as being able to play a sport? To be fair, it is Texas. Plus, he also mentioned band. Someone needs to play in the halftime show, after all.
ramraj07 5y ago
So someone who plays drums in band or throws an egg shaped “ball” (or worse, hits themselves in the head like rams) is contributing to the society than someone who focuses on tests? I’m not even on the side of the Asian families that force their children to study and study alone, but your comment seems to suggest that somehow they don’t have the right to (or are abusing a system). Sounds a bit prejudiced. In the end families which want their kids to “look successful” will make them do whatever is needed, and merely focusing on studies is just one flavor. Look at the Tiger mom bs about Carnegie Hall or Yale law. But at the least they are fully American in their right to do so, and I’d rather have more of them than broken families with kids not even being taken care of.
- noduerme 5y ago
  I think it was intended to be prejudiced - he was sarcastically saying that the parents don't care about integrating into the culture, they think they can attain success for their children with tests alone. I'm a child of Jewish immigrants. I had NO planned school/extracurricular activities except for music. I had these requirements from elementary school through high school: (1) Never get less than a B+ on any test or any class, or you're grounded. (2) Read 50 pages of books my father would assign every night, some light fiction, some history, everything in between, and spend 15 minutes reporting what I read to him. (3) No television or video games. A computer was okay as long as I was using it to "work", which could mean writing my own video games. (4) Find a job the day you turn 15, and work every day. Any job you want. Ideally something that deals with the public, like selling shoes. (I went into advertising). Now, some of my best friends in high school were Korean immigrants. They had a lot more fun than me, but they also studied a lot harder for tests. By no means would I ever think their parents were doing it wrong. What this sarcastic poster means about the society you live in, is ultimately very shady. The society he lives in is lazy. It doesn't want to study or work. It cries foul when people ask for "welfare handouts", but meanwhile, he is asking for a welfare handout from us the people who work and study harder - by means of claiming it's his culture and we're just here doing all the math right while failing to integrate. That's just not true. It's sour grapes from someone who has been eclipsed in all areas of intellectual and artistic achievement, and is likely to soon be eclipsed in the realm of popular culture as well. So anyway /rant over. I wouldn't take it too seriously. Just keep doing what you do well.
rayiner 5y ago
The notion of a “well rounded student” who does music, art, and extra curricular activities, is a legacy of blue blood WASP culture. That is not to say that I think only test scores should matter. But the kinds of extracurriculars colleges value—in particular that they don’t value having a job or working in the farm—smacks of old money ideals.
- noduerme 5y ago
  When they talk about well rounded students: They do value working on a farm. Or going to Guatemala and building wells for people. Or construction work building houses. It's definitely not just about doing ballet and fine arts. I was the only kid in my class who didn't go to college, but I went to one of the top 3 prep schools in terms of Ivy League placement in the country, and the entire focus for extracurricular activities was doing volunteer work. Sports, music, fine art and theater were all there as a potential route, but the advisers pushed kids who wanted to do those things as a career away from leaning on them as a way to be "well-rounded" in the eyes of the college admission boards. TL;DR In my experience, a kid who had no creative talent but took a summer to build houses in Ecuador was much more likely, in the 90s, to get into the Ivy League than one who played violin, or football.
  - rayiner 5y ago
    > TL;DR In my experience, a kid who had no creative talent but took a summer to build houses in Ecuador was much more likely, in the 90s, to get into the Ivy League than one who played violin, or football. And how is a lower middle class kid in the Midwest supposed to be able to swing a summer off to build houses in Ecuador?
    - tiahura 5y ago
      Reddit has plenty of discussions about this. Church groups would be one option. Or, Kayak shows round trip flights this summer from Cincinnati to Ecuador for $500. So, Set up a table outside the local grocery store for a few weekends with pictures of starving Ecuadorans and beg. Or, gofundme. I think the key is initiative, which is one of the main traits they’re looking for.
fma 5y ago
That was probably accurate "back in the day". My wife owns/runs an after school learning center and I can say that 1st/2nd generation take extra-curricular activities very seriously. That is not to say academic is out the window, but academics is not the only interest. As a matter of fact - I wrote a letter of recommendation for someone to volunteer at the library. Due to the competitive nature (I live in an area with lots of 1st/2nd generation, especially Indians)...she did not get a position. Imagine competing to work for free!
- aj7 5y ago
  Yes. Preparing for internship culture. Your wife’s hamsters pay to run on the hamster wheel. And your family benefits!
  - noduerme 5y ago
    Cultures that value education also value unpaid internships. It's an excellent trade. Free education in exchange for free labor. Yes, this has been extremely exploited in America, particularly in tech, where it has: - Created a sense that some work should be "free", hiding the true cost of labor from employers - Turned students into an endless pool to be exploited - Undercut the wages of professionals That being said, the answer is for the student interns to recognize when it's time for them to be paid and to demand it. A lot of Americans think interning is just about getting your "foot in the door" so you "know the right people" and get a leg up on a cushy job. That's simply not the way immigrant families think. There is a value proposition to interning for free when you're learning a trade. It's how I started. When I came to feel I was being exploited, I asked for money, and got it. >> Preparing for internship culture This quote itself implies that you're not willing to put in the effort other people are willing to put in. So now, as an employer, why would I hire someone who didn't feel like putting in the extra work for their resume? I suppose you're owed a job - but then, isn't everyone?
    - aj7 5y ago
      I think you are right. The correct comparison is internship vs. no opportunity at all, not internship vs. job. The actual number of real jobs is driven by revenue.
throwawaygh 5y ago
> and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live How many DFW public schools have cricket or kabaddi teams? How many bands and choirs play primarily non-European music? Are you sure that these students are one dimensional boring test-takers with absolutely no interest in being part of their community? Could it possibly be that many are very active members of a vibrant and deeply rooted immigrant community, but that this community involvement doesn't show up because they aren't either playing in a football game or putting on a half time show for a foot ball game? (I'm also deeply skeptical that participating in band, choir, extra-curricular activities, or sports is actually indicative of much of anything in terms of community participation... playing unorganized pick-up games with friends feels much more participatory than leveraging the well-oiled pre-college apparatus of an upper middle class neighborhood to check the "scholar-athlete" box.)
- mitchdoogle 5y ago
  Playing organized pickup, or participating/organizing activities for your immigrant community are the same as extra curricular activities. They do prove that a student is not just one dimensional test taker
delaynomore 5y ago
>almost all of the top academic students in my class were first or second generation immigrants (mostly Indian) that had no interest in extra-curricular activities like sports, band, choir, or really anything. I suspect it's more like their parents prohibit them from having any interest in these extra-curricular activities. Academics > *.
- mitchdoogle 5y ago
  Ya it's hard to imagine teenagers have no interest in doing things outside of schoolwork
mitchdoogle 5y ago
They sound like dull people.
sn41 5y ago
Your take is very strange, and does not correspond to the Indian immigrant experience from what I have seen. I spent 10 years in the US, and the really weird part is how stridently Indian parents would push their kids to train in Indian culture - particularly classical dance like Bharatanatyam and Carnatic classical. Of course, since Westerners have hardly even heard about these cultural forms, these do not even exist as "extra-curriculars" for standard university admission boards. I found the emphasis on Indian cultural roots so disturbing that I had to weasel out of conversations by saying "I don't know anything about classical dance, I am mostly interested in science-fiction". It is easier to have your own way as an Indian middle-class student in India than as second generation Indians in the US.
- plibither8 5y ago
  > It is easier to have your own way as an Indian middle-class student in India than as second generation Indians in the US. Being an Indian middle-class student in India myself, I'm not sure you understand the level of privilege from which you're making that statement.
- novok 5y ago
  It's because they don't want their children to lose their indian culture, despite raising them in a foreign country. When your in india, you don't have to worry about that.
chrisweekly 5y ago
It's a bit difficult to interpret your comment, but it comes across as bitter, sarcastic and prejudiced.
bpodgursky 5y ago
I'm a 5th-generation white American with no interest in sports, band, or choir... and many of my Indian and east Asian first-generation high-school friends and I participated in activities like math club, knowledge bowl, science olympiad, etc etc. Just because they aren't participating in YOUR extra-curricular activities doesn't mean they aren't engaged.
robwwilliams 5y ago
LOL: that was said with straight-faced irony. “…based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial stuff that demonstrates that they can participate in the society in which they live.”

tomc1985 5y ago

What is the point of these tests if people can just test prep their way through it? The result is not indicative of their true selves, it is simply yet another horrible facade.