24 ms·

Last Windows 11 update changed all default browser settings to Edge

• SantiagoElf 5y ago
  I just went and resetted it back to Chrome. Probably someone' house at Kabo at Microsoft depends on some OKR and metrics to show growth for Edge. Pathethic, short-sighted, but most probably true.
  • coryrc 5y ago
    > I just went and resetted it back to Chrome. Out of the frying pan into the fire.
    • SantiagoElf 5y ago
      I am from Eastern Europe - Hard Bass ADIBAS :D
    • premun 5y ago
      Exactly, why would anyone prefer Chrome to Edge? They both are built on the same Chromium core but Google adds a bunch tracking with merging your website logging together with your browser account.
      • tonyedgecombe 5y ago
        Edge interferes with other web sites. I was purchasing an item from Amazon when it started popping up messages about other suppliers. If I didn't make my living writing Windows software I would have left the platform a long time ago.
        • raxxorrax 5y ago
          When they integrated the buy now, pay later function you could make some scathing conclusion about the type of people calling the shots on Edge. What does this have to do with a browser?
      • gambiting 5y ago
        >>Exactly, why would anyone prefer Chrome to Edge? Is this....a real question? I'll bite - because Chrome signs into my google account and it seemlessly remembers everything I do between my PC, my laptop and my phone. I literally couldn't care any less what core it uses, the usability aspect is just better than in Edge.
        • rightbyte 5y ago
          > it seemlessly remembers everything I do between my PC, my laptop and my phone That is not a feature, unless you are OK with Google spying on you.
          • gambiting 5y ago
            How is this not a feature then? Yes I'm ok with my browsing history and bookmarks and tabs and extensions and everything else being synced using google servers because it makes my life easier. To give another example - my Volvo allows me to track every single journey in the app, seeing the electricity/petrol consumption, mileage, start/end date..... Yes it means Volvo now knows all of my travel history. But it also means I get access to functionality that is useful to me. If that's not a feature to you, then don't use it. The question was "why would anyone prefer Chrome" - because it's a very good browser which has useful features. Like, it's not rocket science.
            • f1refly 5y ago
              What do you gain from having every single journey in your app and seeing the fuel consumption? Have you ever actually looked at those stats? I think I've never in my life been in a situation where I thought "Dang, I wish I knew how much kilometers my last 18 trips where, if only I had some kind of tracking device that kept these stats for me!"
              • rightbyte 5y ago
                And if you need that, my -98 Volvo got a little pin on the dash you can press to zero a sub-odometer. It also reset the fuel consumption average. So, ye, no need for spyware. Google biggest sin is normalizing all these spywares embedded in everything. It is spreading everywhere, even my Samsung TV, and legislators are like 10 years behind were they should have started to "GDPR" everything.
      • ImaCake 5y ago
        Edge has more user hostile “features” at the moment. I use firefox, but make use of chromium for google earth (which runs poorly in firefox on a laptop). I had been using edge for a while, but the constant pop-ups and frequent crashes on MacOS has made me switch back to chrome. Freshly installed chrome has limited pop-up bullshit and doesn’t force itself to be the default. Big wins for me for my backup chromium browser.
      • iqanq 5y ago
        They keep adding features to Edge that nobody has asked for. And they have rewritten parts of the UI, making them much slower. On the other hand, once you disable the Google sign-in feature of Chrome and change the new tab to about:blank, it's the cleanest browser there is - much cleaner than Firefox, which is shovelware at this point, and adds new crap every new major version.
    • phendrenad2 5y ago
      Do you think it's okay to just make snide remarks about someone's browser choice on this website? Is that the kind of environment you want HN to be?
    • mcsofake 5y ago
      Edge shares literally every single website you visit with Microsoft, even in InPrivate (= Incognito) mode. [1] The worst part is that you have to disable a genuine security feature (i.e., SmartScreen) to prevent this. No other browser makes you choose between security and privacy in this manner. Even Chrome attempts to protect your privacy by doing hash prefix computations for their Safe Browsing feature. Also, at least Chrome lets you set a custom encryption passphrase. Microsoft managed to import every other feature from Chrome, except this one, apparently. Microsoft has somehow done the impossible and beat Google in its own game. Edge is a complete privacy nightmare, only rivaled by the likes of Opera and Yandex browsers. If Chrome is the fire, Edge is a nuclear reactor in meltdown. [1]: https://www.kuketz-blog.de/microsoft-edge-datensendeverhalten-desktop-version-browser-check-teil4/ https://www.kuketz-blog.de/microsoft-edge-datensendeverhalte... (English version: https://www-kuketz--blog-de.translate.goog/microsoft-edge-datensendeverhalten-desktop-version-browser-check-teil4/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en https://www-kuketz--blog-de.translate.goog/microsoft-edge-da...)
  • sydd 5y ago
    yep, they pull this crap every year or so. Then apologize for the "bug".
    • hackerfromthefu 5y ago
      They need to be fined for this, every year, according to the number of users affected. The fine needs to outweigh the value of the market gains they make. i.e. it needs to be a real deterrent.
  • jhanschoo 5y ago
    Every time a feature update happens they show the "get started" (iirc) screen over again. Every time if you just click accept/next without reading it resets your default browser and search engine.
• caaqil 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? That's the neat part, I don't. On the rare occasion that I use Windows 10 [1] (for some work), I try my best to get my work done quickly so I can switch back to my Linux boot. [1]: Their desperate message to convince me to install Windows 11 makes me laugh.
• bopbeepboop 5y ago
  Windows 11 made that computer my last MS purchase. I’m only looking at computers that natively ship Linux from now on — that OS was a disaster, that doesn’t even support basic functionality and was shipped without support docs or training their support staff.
• marcodiego 5y ago
  A line was crossed. Users should remember old microsoft policies of spreading FUD but very few moves create more fear, uncertainty and doubt than acting this way.
  • smackeyacky 5y ago
    I haven't been able to find out if Windows 11 is stable or not, it gets "must reboot" updates at least once a week on the dev track.
• causality0 5y ago
  Man do I miss how excited for the new Windows I was when I was younger. Remember when the worst things about a new version were CPU footprint and compatibility problems? Maybe this is nostalgia goggles but I don't remember my first weeks with Windows 98 or 7 making me feel like Microsoft hates me.
  • MiddleEndian 5y ago
    Manual updates means that they have to make an update appealing to entice users to install it. Automatic updates means they don't.
• mmrezaie 5y ago
  I think this is a common practice nowadays until the regulations resolved it. Even Google chrome now asks if you changed the default search engine by mistake.
  • mschuster91 5y ago
    Sure but Google didn't nearly get broken up by anti-trust regulation agencies for unfair competition with browsers. Microsoft did... in a fair world they'd be facing serious fines or an actual breakup this time as repeat offenders.
  • diffuse_l 5y ago
    There is a difference between asking if you want to change something, and going and changing this something without the user consent.
    • hackerfromthefu 5y ago
      There is a difference between asking, and constantly nagging until the user presses the wrong key by mistake one day.
• pizza234 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? I don't; I develop on Linux. Ignoring this, within my very limited usage of Windows, it seems to me that MS has become increasingly more hostile over the last few years or so. To answer with something actionable: I discourage people from upgrading to Windows 11.
  • SantiagoElf 5y ago
    Windows is pretty much alive and kicking. The best it has been since Windows XP. WSL2, running Linux on Windows, VS Code, VS 2022, it's all good. Windows 11 is VERY solid and you can play lots of games on it too :) I am dead serious. I have been using Windows since 3, using betas of Microsoft products since Longhorn - right now, Windows is reaching it's PEAK in terms of performance, ecosystem. Sure, they will need 2-3 more UI/UX iterations, but who cares - I use the terminal, File Explorer, Visual Studio 2022, Office apps and Outlook :D
    • kelnos 5y ago
      I started running Windows back with version 3 as well, but gave up after 2000. I won't run an OS that I can't trust, and and OS that pulls the kind of thing that happened to OP is not one that I can trust. I don't care how "solid" or performant it is. And I don't need WSL2 when I can just run Linux directly.
    • rbanffy 5y ago
      > WSL2, running Linux on Windows, VS Code, VS 2022, it's all good. As someone who also has a Linux desktop and laptops in addition to the Windows machine, WSL is terrible next to the real thing. Unless you need software that only runs on Windows, I advise against using it as a reason to stay on Windows.
      • SantiagoElf 5y ago
        I have been using Linux since Redhat 6.2 back in 1998. I have had my share of xconfig edits, bash scripts, etc explorations. I am now reaching 36, I just like 'things that work' - like Windows. Windows works with all my hardware, with all my 7 laptops, with all my 2 towers, I can install Visual Studio 2022 on it, I can install Ubuntu in WSL2 and I can play Dota2/Civ/Baldur's Gate/Warhammer 40k Insquisitor Martyr/listen to Spotify/debugging/deploying to Azure/writing an email/writing a Presentation in Power Point. And then go back to my family - because not worrying about Wayland, that new driver or that new update or "that new thing "- suprsingly leaves a lot of time that you can spend with your family :) And of course I am using the .NET stack with Angular- all smooth, all good, no hassle, just smooth sailing :)
• johnebgd 5y ago
  Makes me glad my MacBook Pro can’t run Windows 11 in boot camp…
  • hffftz 5y ago
• e3bc54b2 5y ago
  Pardon if I'm getting this wrong, but > This is pathetic, predatory and should be illegal. > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? Any similar stories? This is quite low effort, and frankly doesn't add anything to the known status quo.
• rbanffy 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? Any similar stories? My advice is that, unless you are developing for Windows is don't. If you need the Adobe tools, you can get them for Macs and, since M1, Macs offer a lot of bang for the buck while being a perfectly usable Unix machine, they are an excellent choice. If you don't need tools that aren't available on Linux, then Linux is a really good option. Hardware support may be an issue, so I always recommend the most boring machines possible - Intel, with integrated graphics - and only get components you know will work well with Linux.
  • asddubs 5y ago
    hardware support isn't so bad these days. you can get basically any AMD graphics card and be fine, nvidia works too although it fights with wayland a bit (but supposedly that's getting better too) laptops are a little more problematic but if you try to install linux on a random laptop, chances are everything will just work too. thinkpads are always a safe bet, in any case. or get something made for linux like a system76
    • rbanffy 5y ago
      The advice to go for the most boring laptop possible is out of this. I would avoid laptops with dual graphics (integrated and discrete) as much as possible. That's more or less what System 76 does. Dells are usually trouble-free unless you want a "mobile workstation" or gaming laptop. Full support for Intel's 12th gen will probably take a while to trickle down to mainstream distros (you should be fine if you compile your kernel from upstream though), so, if you are on the market now, I suggest 10th or 11th gen. Or wait a couple months.
  • smackeyacky 5y ago
    Either boring or off lease enterprise machines. More likely to be hassle free in my experience.
  • magicalhippo 5y ago
    > If you don't need tools that aren't available on Linux, then Linux is a really good option. The lack of a decent[1] RDP alternative has kept me away for years. I use KDE Neon on a NUC as a secondary PC and I've been very happy with it, but without a viable RDP alternative it's a no-go as my daily driver.
• kekkidy 5y ago
  In windows 10, Settings > Default Apps, there is a button called "Reset to Microsoft recommended defaults". If you ever press it by mistake, it resets ALL of your settings. Doesn't even ask for confirmation. One misclick and you will lose 30 mins reverting it all back.
• samtheDamned 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? I don't
• TameAntelope 5y ago
  It asks you, you just have to catch it during the installation/upgrade.
• BatteryMountain 5y ago
  I recently switched a family small-business over to Fedora + xfce and it has been rock solid. It's a bunch of old Intel laptops (oldest one is 3rd gen i3 with 4gb ram + new cheap 2.5" ssd's). Think it was 8 machines in total that has now been cured. So far no calls yet. Everything just works. I like Windows in general but it has become a hassle to maintain. Actually, it's a nightmare. It keeps getting in the way, changing settings or adding new applications between updates. Windows 11 specifically, I tried it for a week but went back to windows 10. It is not ready yet even though it looks nice. (Only have 1 machine with Windows, please don't throw stones at me - the rest is all linux)
• IiydAbITMvJkqKf 5y ago
  Arch linux is unironically more stable than Windows 10+. Not saying it doesn't have its problems, but it has WAY less than Windows.
  • dtx1 5y ago
    That strongly depends on "your" arch linux setup. My Sway/Wayland only system is not stable at all, but that's not what i need in a desktop/gaming setup
    • dijit 5y ago
      Oh interesting. I’d love to hear more about your setup. I’m on the same stack (Sway, Arch) and it’s absolutely rock solid on a precision 5520, and has been for 4 years now. I usually reinstall every year but I haven’t this time because everything kinda just works. To be clear; I’m not doubting you but it’s wildly different than my experience and I would love to understand how to avoid this instability myself, if for instance you’re running strange kernel modules or a specific video card. What machine do you have and what is breaking?
      • dtx1 5y ago
        Well I have a thinkpad with a pretty stable setup (except suspend resume, i havent even bothered trying to get that to run well) but on my desktop system Ryzen 5600x AMD rx6600xt MSI B550M pro Zen Kernel with 3600mhz XMP Ram and auto overclock settings i get a hard crash once a month with some random MCE hardware errors, bluetooth card spams my dmesg on boot with some errors i cant be bothered to fix, firefox sometimes crashes HARD, totally freezing, games sometimes don't start, today i had a random chromium crash and then i couldnt open nemo (file manager) anymore and when i opened a shell (alacritty with fish shell) the shell wouldnt allow any input. Two reboots later and it was fixed...somehow... but honestly i dont mind its my toy system/work system from home because its so much faster than my notebooks. If I have to reboot once a day thats stable enough for that newscase
        • 5y ago
• iqanq 5y ago
  >How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC. No updates and supported for 10 years. Rock solid.
  • eps 5y ago
    It does actually update itself every now and then even though it shouldn't be. In the middle of the night no less. You may want to check the logs. No feature updates, just patches, but still.
    • iqanq 5y ago
      I meant no feature updates. Windows 10 does indeed update itself by default, but you can disable automatic updates using the policy editor.
• xenator 5y ago
  Next step will be installed crypto miners by default? I still remember days when I knew every process on my laptop and know most of their settings keys. Software moved into direction I don't appreciate.
  • k8sToGo 5y ago
    Norton already installs a miner for you.
    • worldsayshi 5y ago
      Are you serious?
      • n4bz0r 5y ago
        Yes and no. If I got this right: they do have miner functionality built-in that you can opt-in to use for your benefit. But they take 15%. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29795910 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29795910
  • eps 5y ago
    Symantec got this covered already.
• intsunny 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? Any similar stories? Based on this very recent comment, even the creaters of Windows do not: This has been the case for a while. I worked on the Windows Desktop Experience Team from Win7-Win10. Starting around Win8, the designers had full control, and most crucially essentially none of the designers use Windows. I spent far too many years of my career sitting in conference rooms explaining to the newest designer (because they seem to rotate every 6-18 months) with a shiny Macbook why various ideas had been tried and failed in usability studies because our users want X, Y, and Z. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30019307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30019307
  • schleck8 5y ago
    > Based on this very recent comment, even the creaters of Windows do not: I made a joke about this after the Windows 11 update introduced the new right click menu, meaning things like 7zip and my file reputation tool where all an additional click away for no apparent reason other than putting bigger spacing and more icons. That just had to be designed by atleast someone who doesn't power use Windows, and maybe even daily drives a different OS
    • jiggawatts 5y ago
      Microsoft broke their own right-click menu integrations in Explorer by doing this. "Open with Code" and "Open with Visual Studio" have both been relegated to the "Show more options" submenu. It absolutely boggles the mind that any of this was shipped. This is Beta level software.
      • ljm 5y ago
        I have a feeling that larger businesses use the concept of 'data driven design' as a cost saving measure because it's easier to make decisions based on a few pie charts than it is to actually spend time with your users. An issue like this would come up almost straight away if someone was actively observed while using the OS.
      • TheRealDunkirk 5y ago
• d--b 5y ago
  Yet another browser war? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_wars
• ItsBob 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? As others have mentioned, I don't! I left and went to Fedora about 3 months ago - still keep a W10 VM for my scanner as Linux still hasn't sorted that stuff but I use it once a month or something so no big deal. It was my second or third attempt over the years to move to Linux and F35 is now rock solid and I can do .NET development with absolutely no problems now. I had used Windows since DOS 5.x so it was quite a break for me :)
  • tephra 5y ago
    I use VueScan which is available for Linux with great results (mostly scanning 35mm and medium format negatives).
  • forlorn 5y ago
    Fedora rocks, totally. I've never exprienced smoother upgrades in my life and I did every upgrade from F28 to F35 now. The most stable distro out there and boy I tried a lot of them.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• makach 5y ago
  Huh? Without asking the user? I received an update, and Edge asked me to update my settings. I respectfully clicked no and nothing changed. For the novice user, there might be a use-case where this is a good solution, to revert settings settings in case you somehow messed them up.
  • tssva 5y ago
    Same here. Received an update and was asked if I wanted to change default browser settings. I said no and no changes were made.
  • dx034 5y ago
    > For the novice user, there might be a use-case where this is a good solution, to revert settings settings in case you somehow messed them up. Maybe that's the justification for the product manager or developer, I'm pretty sure though it's just driven by management to increase usage of Edge and Bing. That I have to tell Microsoft on a monthly basis that I don't want to use Edge is in no way user friendly. But same goes for Google which will always ask me why I don't use Chrome.
  • grujicd 5y ago
    After a restart I was presented with a screen which asked me whether to change or keep default browser settings. I clicked on "keep" and pretty much everything stayed the same. Did OP got this question? Edit: d'oh, didn't realize question was about Win 11. I'm still on Win 10 and Win 8 on my machines.
  • 255kb 5y ago
    For me no change nor prompt after the update. Nothing changed, I still have my settings.
• Nextgrid 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? An M1 Macbook Air starts at $1k and is a perfectly usable machine for most tasks.
  • jptech 5y ago
    The usability of MacOS is horrible. saying it as a Win+Linux guy.
    • Nextgrid 5y ago
      It's definitely getting worse and I agree it's worse than Windows 7, but I'll still take it over Windows 8+. Linux really depends on what you do with it and whether you use a laptop or desktop. Desktop is really not a problem as you don't care about battery life, wireless connections or power management. But on laptops it can be tricky - Bluetooth is still a horrible mess in the Linux world for example.
• baud147258 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? Well, I'm still on Windows 10, so I don't have that particular crap to deal with. And I think by that point I'm used to Windows 10's crap, or at least it's not as annoying to deal compared to Windows changing your configuration. As long as I can use Windows 10, I don't really see the point in switching to linux, it (mostly) works for what I need and, more importantly, I'm used to it and not really ready to relearn another OS/ecosystem.
• CommanderData 5y ago
  Windows Update uses all disk space on space limited VMs hosting various services, disabling it has become more difficult (Disabling the service doesn't work anymore, recently a helper service to restart it was released) Which has led to something a bit drastic but I haven't looked back - blocking all Windows IP's on router level for the VM address space. I still run updates every few months. Edit: If anyone want's a list of IPs here's one that I use and is maintained somewhat regularly : https://github.com/crazy-max/WindowsSpyBlocker/tree/master/data/openwrt https://github.com/crazy-max/WindowsSpyBlocker/tree/master/d...
  • jiggawatts 5y ago
    Oh, that's nothing. Windows Update can forcefully power-on a sleeping laptop, and then do 100% CPU load for a decent chunk of an hour whether you like it or not... ... while your laptop is in your laptop bag. This destroyed one laptop for me already. It very nearly caught fire on a crowded train with no way to even throw it off for safety. I keep saying: Microsoft will keep ramming this crap down people's throats until a laptop catches fire on a plane and a safety agency or two gets involved. PS: Speaking of VMs and Windows Update -- the most hilarious thing ever is when 40,000 virtual desktop VMs forcefully run Windows Update all at the same time on a shared storage array. And then reboot to the golden image, resetting them to the previous state, from which they dutifully try to patch themselves. Again, and again, and again...
    • tryauuum 5y ago
      40000 windows VMs is already painful, even without windows update experience
    • feupan 5y ago
      To be fair it also happens on my MacBook. I charged my computer and placed it on my bag, asleep and unplugged, before a trip. I was not pleased to find it hot in the morning and at 60% battery.
      • sdflhasjd 5y ago
• LegitShady 5y ago
  >How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? Does msft reset it daily? It sounds like no. On a daily basis windows is painless and easy to use.
• dtx1 5y ago
  Thank you Valve for making 90% of games i like available on linux. Windows Free for 5 years and counting. Desktop Linux has lot's of issues and annoyances but at least I can have reasonable trust that the developers behind the software I use don't have any incentive to fuck me over with mandatory browser switches or privacy nightmare "telemetry". More interesting Question imo: If I can't trust Microsoft not to fuck with my desktop settings to maximize their revenue from bing adds via edge, why should anyone trust Microsoft not to do the same with azure?
• Yuioup 5y ago
  Are you on the Insiders build?
• Hamuko 5y ago
  I only use Windows for gaming and I've yet to find a reason to upgrade to Windows 11. Seems like I'd be wiser to wait for whatever is going to be the Windows 8.1 of Windows 11.
• notorandit 5y ago
  Business as usual: it's Microsoft. They know what you want more than you do.
• sascha_sl 5y ago
  Edge was pretty okay soon after the relaunch on Chromium. I've had to go back to Chrome by now though, the blatent disrespect for your preferences is all over this product. Search in sidebar with Bing. Search with Bing in the marked text menu. Address bar goes to Bing no matter your defined preference, unless you change a very badly explained setting from "Search box (recommended)" to "Address Bar". As for other Microsoft products - if you can aquire 21H2 LTSC, it's a very good alternative to Windows 11.
• gfykvfyxgc 5y ago
  DOS ain’t done till Lotus won’t run.
• dotcoma 5y ago
  Buy a Mac or install Linux.
• leeoniya 5y ago
  i have TPM 2.0 disabled in BIOS, which blocks Windows 11, sounds like permanently. still will have to deal with occasional Windows 10 "feature" update shenanigans, but far fewer hopefully once 11 is widely-deployed. still use Manjaro/XFCE as my daily & for dev but dual boot win10 for some tools like Affinity Photo/Designer and gaming. https://www.pcgamer.com/windows-11-demands-tpm-20-and-heres-what-that-means-for-you/ https://www.pcgamer.com/windows-11-demands-tpm-20-and-heres-...
• trai_chuavo5000 5y ago
• livinglist 5y ago
  good thing I’m using a Mac, probably won’t go back in the future, been using windows until I was 18 because I wasn’t able to afford one, but every since I started using it, I can’t go back. i stayed for peace of mind, stayed for good UX, stayed for the trackpad which I been using every day for the past four years, and I have barely used a mouse ever since. though, I’m a big fan of Xbox
• snitch182 5y ago
  Well, ... you get used to it. You also get used to the people who are "responsible for the desktop systems" resetting your settings with windows updates or group policy updates breaking web stuff, the outright blocking of websockets ... shall i continue ? Ah, the best one. You also get used to the always-on-vpn not always working. They are a troubled bunch running a desktop system you can not safely control.
• oleg_antonyan 5y ago
  Windows had become "xbox firmware" before they realized this and released WSL. And now they're trying to make it great for web surfing again
  • ecdouvhr 5y ago
    Ironically, the new Edge update for Xbox one made the browser so slow it's nigh unusable; loading times, is almost a whole minute, it often crashes when streaming video, and it feels slower than the non-Chromium predecessor. Before the Chromium update, on the other hand, Edge was an excellent browser considering it ran on a gaming console.
• _jstreet 5y ago
  > This is pathetic, predatory and should be illegal. IANAL, but it sounds questionable around anti-trust laws. Certainly not the first time Microsoft have run into problems with their browsers[^1]. [^1] https://www.cnet.com/news/eu-resolves-microsoft-ie-antitrust-case/ https://www.cnet.com/news/eu-resolves-microsoft-ie-antitrust...
• trai_chuavo5000 5y ago
• maxbaines 5y ago
  After initially feeling excited about Edge and Windows11, I moved to Ubuntu over the Christmas break for exactly this reason. It’s insane to me why Microsoft keep doing it, they literally lost me as a Windows, Edge, Office user because of it. All I wanted was my settings to stay the same. I do all the above on a surface laptop which I love, but I may move hardware as no reason now to use it.
• trai_chuavo5000 5y ago
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• trai_chuavo5000 5y ago
• nix23 5y ago
  >This is pathetic, predatory and should be illegal. Haha, no it's not your product, you have the license to use it, not to own it. Don't waste your time with Microsoft (if your not getting paid for it)
• kayxspre 5y ago
  I used to try 11 when I'm an insider, but feel it's not for me. It seems like an unfinished product, so I reverted to 10. Recently get a banner showing my machine is ready for 11, and believing that problems in early days should have been solved, I gave it a try, only to roll back 30 minutes later. The default browser thing is a factor that cause me to revert, but I also got a problem relating to "Microsoft.Windows.SecHealthUI". Somehow its residue from 10 got removed, and the start menu just show the icon of an app that is not functional and cannot be removed. I know Windows Defender/Security can be opened manually, but seeing this kind of thing makes me feel that Windows 11 was a joke, and until they seriously tackle the issues, I will simply remain with 10.
• Kuinox 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? Any similar stories? I try to use linux for a day or two to remind me why I don't use it instead. Then I don't touch linux again for a few years.
• yessirwhatever 5y ago
  Why put up with it? As much as I dislike this kind of practice by M$ or any other corporation, the solution has always been in the users’ hands! Just don’t use it, switch! Switch to Linux. Live a better life! Give pop OS! (Or any other distro) a shot
• cortic 5y ago
  >How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? wuauclt.exe and wuaueng.dll. Add 'Administrators' to permissions, then go back in and delete all permission entries. Basically deny windows access to its update system. Doesn't hurt to run Anti-Beacon as well. NSudo as Trusted Installer to cripple security center and Update medic service, group policies can shut down most of Defender and Customer Experience Improvement Program as well as the nags about those. Also have a laundry list of scheduled tasks to kill. Takes me days to get win 10 to run as i want, be secure (from MS) and stable, aka not just suddenly change something and mess up my work. Its still a shadow of the operating system XP was (not that XP was very good). Just compulsory auto arrange and border-less windows alone really cripples its ability to multi-task or work with complex file sets efficiently. And the amount of bloat both in its install footprint and running services is insane.
  • sdfhbdf 5y ago
    > Basically deny windows access to its update system If that also disables security updates that is not a good advice.
    • FinanceAnon 5y ago
      Security updates are the actual malware
    • cortic 5y ago
      My advice would be to take control of your own security. Microsoft do not have your best interests at heart.
      • gruez 5y ago
        take control how? installing adblock and not downloading from shady websites isn't going to save you from stuff like BlueKeep.
        • cortic 5y ago
          As the NSA recommend, disable Remote Desktop Services and its associated port (TCP 3389). But I'm also not saying don't update. I'm saying choose when you want to update and what you want to update. Use your own firewall and virus software, lock down your own system. Forgive me for being glib but; Leaving a backdoor for good old papa Gates to protect you is a bad strategy.
• tyronehed 5y ago
• haunter 5y ago
  I'm always stunned that stories like this happen on HN. Like maybe I'm blessed personally by Bill Gates but nothing ever like this happens with my Windows installs, they just work. And I'm on Windows 11 Insider Preview build. _It did ask me_ to change the default browser, I clicked on no and that's all.
• spaniard89277 5y ago
  I've been using XFCE in my laptop for several years, because I don't have to wake up to some BS every now and then. I do have Windows long term corporate whatever in my desktop, so to avoid most of the crap. I'm not very much a game, but I game from time to time. Didn't tested gaming in linux yet, but I'm not afraid. I guess that if somewhere in the future Microsoft tries to make me swallow ther BS I'll just switch and be done with it. Ill suck it up with any difficulty and move on. It's a pity because Windows is a good OS for most, but I can see in other people computers what they push for.
• executesorder66 5y ago
  There never was a "new microsoft". They are still the same shady business that they have always been.
  • SquareWheel 5y ago
    Companies are often made up of teams with differing goals and ambitions. The folks working on WSL, VS Code, Github and other popular projects are quite different than those making predatory decisions like these. They very well may <3 Linux and believe in open-source.
    • hffftz 5y ago
    • executesorder66 5y ago
      Sure, every microsoft employee didn't unanimously agree with the decision to change the default browser settings (and any other example that might come to mind). But it's obvious that the decision makers at microsoft are unethical and have been so since the beginning. The employees who work on cool stuff that's useful to others could have done so anywhere, yet they _chose_ to do so at microsoft knowing that the higher-ups are consistently unethical. That makes me question their ethics as well.
    • AlexandrB 5y ago
      > GitHub The same kind of rot is already starting. GitHub is now pushing its own CLI tools - in fact they're the only option shown to clone the code when looking at a PR. I wouldn't be surprised if in ~5 years you won't be able to use the regular git client with GitHub anymore.
      • manuelabeledo 5y ago
        They didn't get rid of HTTPS yet. They do offer their own CLI tool command line option, along with it.
• buro9 5y ago
  I never click a link outside of a browser I have launched ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I run multiple browsers, Firefox is what I regard as my default but I use Chrome for work email. I launch the browsers on startup, and I just go into the browsers... once in a browser any link clicked is opened by that browser, so it all just works. I can't think of a time when I've needed to follow a link that the OS has presented me with... or even of it presenting me with a link. Is that a thing?
  • k8sToGo 5y ago
    I often see a link in VS Code or terminal that I click.
  • kalleboo 5y ago
    I click links in my email client, chat client, Twitter client, etc
• danielktdoranie 5y ago
• danielktdoranie 5y ago
• deleted 5y ago
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• bretanac93 5y ago
• PedroBatista 5y ago
• iamAtom 5y ago
  Not surprising this is why I have switched to Macbook Pro long back. Windows is to crappy and bloated to deal with and linux desktop is great to some extent but nothing beats the hardware and software synergy provided by Macbook Pro.
• ur-whale 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? No techie I know does. They're all on Linux and some still stuck on OSX. The rest have left Windows a long time ago. Possible exceptions: game devs
• peakaboo 5y ago
• wruza 5y ago
  Since this is a pretty much install-linux thread, I’d like to ask fellow HN-ers which system should I try again. I have a rich experience with linux in the past, but modern OSes turn me off. They are windows-y, just without crap/spyware. Which DE/FM will allow me to configure menus? E.g. “git push” item on a folder containing .git, “npm run myscript” on a folder containing package.json. Which DE has presets for window placement like FancyZones? E.g. you move/resize a window normally, but when you hold Shift, it suggests (draws) pre-configured zones where you may drop it. Which FM allows for in-place folder expansion (like Finder)? Which distro goes with already preinstalled codecs drivers etc, so I don’t get 480p max on youtube and low playback fps? It was an issue even with ubuntus few years ago, maybe 4-5. Do distros support G-sync at all? Many monitors with different DPI? Different refresh rates? Thanks!
  • Macha 5y ago
    > Which DE/FM will allow me to configure menus? E.g. “git push” item on a folder containing .git, “npm run myscript” on a folder containing package.json. Dolphin has "services" which allow you to get custom context menu items, though I've never written one so can't vouch for how much effort it is or isn't. It also has an embedded terminal for more adhoc commands. > Which DE has presets for window placement like FancyZones? E.g. you move/resize a window normally, but when you hold Shift, it suggests (draws) pre-configured zones where you may drop it. Tiling WMs obviously have options out the kazoo for this, but to my understanding, KDE also has snapping, though it's more akin to Windows 10 built in or Spectacle/Rectangle on OS X, than full on Fancy Zones. > Which FM allows for in-place folder expansion (like Finder)? If you mean the tree view features, Dolphin. If you mean the triple pane mode, no idea. > Do distros support G-sync at all? Many monitors with different DPI? Different refresh rates? G-Sync/VRR/mixed refresh rates: Yes. nvidia closed source drivers or Wayland required. Mixed DPIs: I run my monitors at 1x, so can't comment about scaling. Apparently it's a clusterfuck though.
    • wruza 5y ago
      Thanks for your comment, I’ve really lost tracks for recent years! As far as I understand, not using e.g. stock KDE WM means I’ll lose a big chunk of KDE functionality, or will I not? I’m afraid to go all in on custom WM-panel-tray-menu, because that easily meant weeks of configuration. This I find even coolish at home, but not at work. Maybe some popular-enough DE invented some sort of WM plugins aince then? I don’t mind working in lighter DEs like Xfce, but not sure if they play nice with modern graphics stacks and <SubsystemName>Manager things. If you mean the tree view features, Dolphin Yep, the tree view.
• mkup 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? For work: Windows 7 installed using FlashBoot Pro. For games: Windows 10 Ameliorated + Firefox + FoxyProxy + SOCKS5 proxy on the router (github.com/rofl0r/microsocks) combined with default-to-deny firewall rules to filter remaining telemetry and updates.
• matheusmoreira 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? I don't. Been using Linux for over 10 years. The few Windows machines I have to use at work are actually nothing but glorified browser launchers.
• allthebestforus 5y ago
  It surprises me that MS still overrides user settings during updates. Especially since Satya Nadella is trying to modernise. But you can also see this disrespectful handling of user choices as result of internal conflicts. The old patronising MS is still there. Meanwhile MS is doing amazing stuff with Azure, Github and VS Code.
• _trampeltier 5y ago
  I used always Windows and Linux at home, since 1996. I tryed Win10 but decided thats not form me. Candy Crush an XBox all over the place, bad privacy etc. I deleted all Windows when Win7 support ended. Now I have even 3 never even booted diskimages with new, never used Windows licences. I'm not using Linux because it is free. I even bought many times Linux Distro CDs and later DVDs in the 90s. I'm using Linux because of freedom and respect.
• YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y ago
  Yeah, I always hear about it and everyone jumps to trash on Microsoft and here we are with over 1000 windows machines deployed and have never seen it.
• underscore_ku 5y ago
• komuher 5y ago
  Unpopular opinion Windows 11 is best device for development + entertainment if you have high end PC/Monitor etc. I cant use mac with my LG OLED cause refresh is limited to 60HZ (WTF apple) i dont have access to CUDA and a few linux based python libs and ofc most games just dont work. I can't use Linux cause 60%+ of games (multiplayer) that i play with my friends just dont work on linux or have random crashes, my Bluetooth connections are trash and smoothness of the KDE/Gnome isn't as good as windows (on nvidia gpu). On windows everything just works. If i need linux i just install wsl2 + cuda if i need video editing software i can even use KDenlive, if i want to turn on some multiplayer game i just press play and I can play it. ofc. I turn off all the "seciurity" stuff and block most of the microsoft ad's domain in pi.hole but still from normal use cases for most people that i know of in age of 20-30 (mostly other developers) W11/W10 is just best overall experience and everyone is using it daily. Maybe when i get older and wont spend as much time on entertainment Ill go for some GNOME based linux distro and buy 5m cable to connect my headphones.
  • CountDrewku 5y ago
    Yep windows as the average business OS and and gamers' choice at home is not going away anytime soon. In the enterprise environment I have control over all of these settings through GPO or our MDM so it's irrelevant. At home it's a bit more cumbersome but can be overcome as well.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • throwaway8324 5y ago
    This is almost the exact path I took. I had exactly this opinion until the grey beard mentor in my life said "bluetooth is stupid, get another laptop for real work and get a long cable for your headphones". I still have a windows rig for games with friends (and so does my grey beard mentor).
• dustinmoris 5y ago
  I have been Windows free for many years now, but because Windows and Microsoft are becoming increasingly user hostile I have also started to switch all my non-techie family members from Windows to macOS. We have only one more Windows device left in our household and this year that one will get replaced as well. This is the "new" Microsoft - so absolutely hostile and shit that I felt forced to convert everyone from my wife, to my grandmother to move from Windows to Apple and they all feel so happy and keep asking my why they never used Apple before. The integration with their iPhones and iPads is wonderful and the OS really gets out of their way and lets them do the things they care about the most. Things work and don't break.
• Skywalker13 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? I'm still using Windows 7 for specific Visual Studio 2019 developments where I must code. Most of times I'm under Debian. For Windows specific build-only machine I use the free Hyper-V Server installation with OpenSSH installed via powershell and Add-WindowsCapability. I'ts one of the best Windows IMHO because there is nothing installed.
• grujicd 5y ago
  About dealing with Microsoft crap. You customize Windows to your liking and move on. It's certainly not "on a daily basis" as suggested by OP. You don't have to keep anything as suggested by Microsoft. Oh, and you don't upgrade to newer Windows on existing PC until extended support runs out :) If you don't like start menu changes, you install something like Classic Shell (I don't know whether it runs on Win 11 though). If you don't like Explorer, you use something like TotalCommander. I've been using this fantastic software since mid 90-ties, crazy! Btw. I'm tied to .Net and Visual Studio and can't change platforms. But even if I had a choice I probably wouldn't switch. I used Mac and Linux a bit and still prefer Windows. Probably old dog/new tricks kind of situation. Yes, Windows throws curve balls here and there, but you can usually work around them.
  • nrabulinski 5y ago
    You can work around everything if you want to. The problem is, I shouldn’t have to work around stuff like this, the OS should compliment my PC work and be out of my way, not work actively against me and try to outsmart me.
    • grujicd 5y ago
      Sure, that would be ideal, but I don't have a feeling that Windows gets in my way. If anything, it's that drivers or app updates make 90% of sys-admin work for users, not Windows itself. Yes, there are cases when Windows update creates havoc but it's not a constant struggle. I also saw number of complaints about Mac OS in recent years. And constant cases of driver/sound/sleep issues with Linux desktops. And still, people use them and are happy. It's not like Windows is the only OS with issues you have to work around.
  • aliswe 5y ago
    Not making any judgement on this reply, I just like to note that this is a very common reply to Linux criticism as well.
• lozenge 5y ago
  There's a registry key you can set on Windows 10 to prevent the upgrade to 11. It'll be a long time before I have any need to upgrade. As for all those hacks like disabling Windows Update, replacing the Start Menu etc, I prefer to stay on the standard so that the system is stable and there are less things to check if it becomes unstable.
• sebow 5y ago
  I used to be a MS "apologist" a long time ago for the majority of my "history" with computing.As with other bad habits in my life, I learned that there's only one solution: cut the head off.MS is becoming more restrictive precisely because it knows that if they allow even the smallest opening of freedom, users will break out of their grip.That in end of itself is enough of a reason to cut them off, besides shitty performance, de facto a data mining botnet, etcetera. Sorry if i don't think having zoom and similar crapware is worth the cons of using win.Yes this is a strawman, and yes that's where the rest of the non-garbage software on windows is converging towards.
• rodolphoarruda 5y ago
  Long live to Linux and Firefox (and all the surrounding social structures that keep them alive).
• arepublicadoceu 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? Any similar stories? First: it’s defined not on daily basis. It’s on install or every blue moon update. Secondly: I vastly prefer dealing with this occasional browser change then spending my whole week trying to discover: - why my screen is tearing - why my nvidia laptop is messed up - why I can’t plug my external display and have the correct dpi on each display OBS. I also vastly prefer to fix a browser change every once in a while than rebooting into tty to fix an unbootable system after a driver/firmware upgrade.
  • rosmax_1337 5y ago
    Atleast on Linux the problems you might have are not because of malware presented by the maintainers of the operating system.
  • phendrenad2 5y ago
    You're right. In fact Firefox resets your settings during updates in order to try to entice you into enabling Pocket or donating (which you so naively disabled in preferences). Nobody says anything about that.
• n4bz0r 5y ago
  I don't get much crap on a daily basis, but that's probably due to using corporate versions of the system. For Windows 10 it's LTSC. These are seemingly more timid with the updates, and there is no ads in Start menu. The downside is, I don't think you can buy LTSC for the personal use. Personally, I don't mind pirating, but since I buy most of the games these days, and most of the software I use has free alternatives, it would be nice to step away from using KMS (and, well, other) cracks made by fuck knows who.
• 4cao 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? I don't use Windows 11. On Windows 10, I modify the installation image with DISM, removing as much of the unnecessary and user-hostile stuff as possible. (Some of these packages are hidden but can be un-hidden and then uninstalled anyway. Edge can also be completely removed at this stage.) I make extensive changes to the registry that disable all the unwanted stuff. Some of these settings are not documented, and even the documented ones are likely to change without notice or become re-enabled by default in subsequent builds. For this reason, to avoid such unpleasant surprises, I prevent any automatic updates. All of these changes happen before Windows is even installed, and for what's not covered by them, I have a collection of setup scripts that disable what can only be disabled post-installation, and also apply my preferred settings. In the end, I get a system that does only what I want it to do, and nothing else, although to make this possible one has to go through extensive hurdles. For the record, I'm not saying things should be like that of course. On the contrary, I realize the situation we're in is ridiculous and some improvement is long overdue. But in the meantime, this is how I've been able to solve the immediate problem for myself.
  • ms-fellag 5y ago
    Is this done with Home or Enterprise edition?
  • inaseem 5y ago
    Please share the process.
  • cerved 5y ago
    would you consider sharing this?
    • gruez 5y ago
      Not OP but there are many projects along those lines, eg. https://github.com/DrEmpiricism/Optimize-Offline/ https://github.com/DrEmpiricism/Optimize-Offline/
  • TheRealDunkirk 5y ago
• Mikeb85 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? Any similar stories? I don't. Been running Ubuntu since 2010ish.
• 0xedd 5y ago
  Tipping point, for using ms products in general, was malware posing as an Asus driver /s. Fresh windows 10 install. Installed a bunch of drivers fresh off the vendor's site. Asus driver installation installed some GUI i didn't much care for, Armoury Crate. Well, no problem, right? One can extract the cab/inf files and let windows add the driver rather than use the vendor's executable. Wrong. Trying to uninstall the driver through the vendor's uninstaller - Error. Add/Remove (probably points to the same location) - Error. It ran a web service; Trying to end task it - Automatically restarted. This went on for a long debugging session until I realized it's like fighting hackers for control over my own PC. An experience commonplace to windows. Sifting through dodgy forums yielded no results. Thanks to AMD's professionalism, they added drivers for their latest video card gen to the Linux kernel well before their cards released. Which made my new gaming PC transition to an Arch based distro a no brainer. Didn't look back since. For anyone interested, I'm using the Garuda distro for games successfully. All games that don't use intrusive garbage like Easy Anti Cheat work. It isn't an inplace replacement for ms and requires patience and tinkering. With the latest Proton 7 release, games work a lot better. Even Cyberpunk 2077 works out of the box with no tinkering. Sifting through git issues, discussions, solutions and usually just a cli command away for Linux issues is worlds apart than the walled garbage dump that is ms. If you're up for it, i suggest installing arch yourself as Garuda has its unjustified quirks. I must add that regardless of anecdotal experiences with ms products, it is important to support the only competition by moving away from ms. Because of their monopolistic practices in tying up hardware to their own software such as TPM and Pluton. Security is great but not proprietary security that ties the hardware to a specific operating system. Something ms always strived for by thrusting their product as the default on any PC and laptop.
  • formerly_proven 5y ago
    fwiw you don't have to download drivers yourself, vendors are perfectly happy to distribute barely-uninstallable Adware using Windows Update. This is not limited to pre-built machines, either.
    • chronogram 5y ago
      I hate that on my Latitude. After installing Windows 11 without internet I applied 3 different methods of disabling the automatic installation of drivers: group policy, control panel, and the registry. I rebooted to make double sure, and after connecting to the internet the first thing it does is install the Dell Maxxaudio crapware. You have to then go to the device manager to install the Microsoft audio drivers over it, then remove the crapware, but you’re not allowed to remove the app for it. Terribly annoying.
• watmough 5y ago
  Similar, after a crash, I reinstalled Windows, but using my Azure work account and a PIN to login. However, the feeling of not 'owning' this machine anymore just became too irritating. After that I installed CentOS 7 on machines I use for work development, including a desktop, and my Razer Blade 15. Our products are RHEL / Windows, and most everything I care about can be made to work pretty well on CentOS 7, including Teams, VS Code, CUDA, Python etc. A few things, including cmake work a heckuva lot faster in fact. Other machines I have mostly run MacOS (anxiously awaiting Ashai Linux!) or Elementary OS, which is pretty awesome.
• w4rh4wk5 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? I've been exclusively using Windows 10 since 2016 on my main rig as well as my laptop. While there are a lot of small annoyances, for me, it's been far from _on a daily basis_. I'd say, from 360 days in the year, I spend maybe 10 days dealing with some Windows bullshittery. These are the things I changed on my system: - Disable Windows Defender real-time scanning and related scheduled tasks. - Use classic shell to replace the Windows start menu. - Tweak privacy settings in the Windows Settings panel. Everything else is pretty much default. Yes, I do update Windows on a regular basis. There have been occasions where default applications associated with file-types break after an update, but for me this never occurred with the default browser setting. Not while I've been using Chrome, neither now while using Firefox. I live in central Europe, maybe that makes a difference. For my background, I mainly work on video game stuff, which is the main reason for running Windows. Still, it's development work (mostly C++), not just things that can be done in a browser where no actual interaction with the OS is needed. Edit: I've not reinstalled the OS on my main rig since 2018-12-22. Edit 2: My most recent hard-crash that forced me to power-cycle the machine was in March 2021. According to my notes it appeared to be related to the GPU driver (NVIDIA) and occurred while developing an application that utilizes Vulkan.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • po1nter 5y ago
    > Disable Windows Defender real-time scanning and related scheduled tasks. Why do this?
    • w4rh4wk5 5y ago
      Personally, I am not a fan of Windows Defender in general, but disabling it completely renders other services (e.g. Windows Store) unusable. That's why I only disable the real-time scanning component. There are two reasons for doing this: Firstly, it has been shown that the real-time scanning features causes issues with file access latency. It's apparently quite noticeable when using WSL. On a laptop there might also be a noticeable improvement in battery life, but I don't have any data to back that up. Secondly, every now and then the real-time scanning triggers on some file, removing/quarantining it without asking me first. This often happens, for instance, for video game cracks that I'd like to analyze / revers-engineer [^1]. So, for me, it's a lot of false positives and so far I haven't encountered a single case where Windows Defender actually protected me from something. At least that I know of. ^1: It's a hobby, I don't build DRM, don't worry. The games I work on typically release DRM-free.
• Mandatum 5y ago
  Thankfully LTSC 2021 was released, so I’m sitting on that until standard support ends in 5 years.
  • gruez 5y ago
    you should get IOT LTSC enterprise for 10 years support.
    • Mandatum 5y ago
      Unfortunately I doubt support for common applications and frameworks will continue for IoT. It’s annoying enough trying to game, although you can. After 5 years I expect enough customisation and features/fixes available for Windows 11 to not suck.
• jmrm 5y ago
  I have Windows 10 because Windows 7 stopped updating and some software can have some problems with it, otherwise I would totally continue using it. I plan to do the same with Windows 10 and Windows 11. I have enough crap every time I install Windows 10, needing to use ShutUp10, other "debloaters", and having to use the task scheduler to remove telemetry tasks, so I don't need more things to delete with Windows 11.
• jamisteven 5y ago
• 0xTJ 5y ago
  At this point, it's more likely that I permanently switch to Linux than it is that I upgrade to Windows 11. I was pacified and relatively content with Windows 10, but Microsoft is rapidly destroying the good will they accumulated with stuff like WSL (even if that's just a way to keep people from switching to Linux) and VSCode (which I might continue to use on Linux).
• luciusdomitius 5y ago
  Either install Linux or accept that the actual owner of your PC (and no, this is not you). is going to do whatever they want with it. There is no third option really. "Accept the things to which fate binds you, and love the people with whom fate brings you together, but do so with all your heart." M. Aurelius
  • falcor84 5y ago
    I absolutely agree, but just want to say that when trying to promote this sentiment, you really should be saying "GNU" or "GNU/Linux" rather than just "Linux".
    • luciusdomitius 5y ago
    • aqfamnzc 5y ago
      I've recently taken to calling it GNU plus Linux.
• justsomehnguy 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis I just don't bother with the concept of "default browser". I use Portable FF for my main usage, I have firewall in a outbound whitelist mode, so in a rare circumstance something opens Edge... it's not going anywhere. The only bother I had is with GitHub authenticator which doesn't have the option to just copy the auth link and opens the default browser. I copy the link from there and paste it in FF.
• whalesalad 5y ago
  I've seen this movie before... wasn't Microsoft the defendant in an anti-trust case modeled after the exact same situation? I just setup a Win 10 box at home and have finally started to appreciate some of it, but the Edge hooks are all over the place. I've noticed clicking a help link in one of the settings sidebars will open in Edge regardless of your browser choice. It's also the default PDF reader.
• NylaTheWolf 5y ago
  > changed "restore previous tabs" setting to "always open Bing on startup" oh my god i would be so pissed off. I'm a tab hoarder and I do have Session Buddy to save tab sessions but still.
• reissbaker 5y ago
  I'd echo a sibling comment that I'm often confused by these stories on HN, since this kind of thing never happens to me, and I use Windows 11 on a daily basis (on multiple machines). Yes, they sometimes show a prompt after updates asking if I want to change the default browser to Edge — I always decline. And no settings change. Boosting Edge's numbers by force-switching the default browser without asking would have such obvious, predictable backlash, I'd be pretty surprised if this ever shipped intentionally. Let alone changing Chrome's default search engine without asking — that very likely is illegal. Is your Windows machine a personal one, or is it a corporate machine? I could imagine that poorly designed corporate IT update enforcement software would accidentally do this kind of thing.
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• alpaca128 5y ago
  They already did that once on my Windows 10 machine a few years back. Wallpaper was reset to the default and my complete Firefox session was replaced by a single Bing tab. Luckily I could restore the session via "recently closed windows", but that was one of the last straws that made me wipe my last Windows installation. Risk of data loss is crossing the line for me.
• easton 5y ago
  This didn't happen for me, unless you are talking about a different cumulative update. I just installed KB5010795 and Firefox is still my default. Edge has been popping up a modal on startup lately to reset your default browser, are you sure you didn't click that? Not that it's your fault, but if you don't open Edge it doesn't bother you in my experience.
• nkotov 5y ago
  How is Microsoft able to get away with this and not trigger another antitrust lawsuit?
• modbom 5y ago
  Never has there been a time I wanted to switch to linux for good so badly.
• codefreakxff 5y ago
  During start up it asked me if I wanted to change my browser settings and I said no. My settings were not changed. Either you clicked yes without realizing what it would do, or there was something that made it not ask you. I think the wording of the question was something along the lines of “internet security”, which is Microsoft’s way of tricking users, so you may not have realized what it would do when you said yes
  • cassac 5y ago
    I agree with your assessment. They use dark patterns to get people to click yes.
• Cyder 5y ago
  Windows 11 is desktop as a service. Set it the easy you like it and use a firewall or pihole to block updates. It's been the only way to have a stable system since windows 10. On days when you have extra time, go ahead and update, then fix everything Microsoft ruined.
• dni9 5y ago
• moritzruth 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? I deleted my last remaining Windows installation two days ago. Linux is better for software development anyways, and with Proton, I can play all the games I like.
• gigel82 5y ago
  I hate MS's stance on privacy like anyone else, but I have serious doubts about your post. This would be a very big thing if actually true. Most likely thing that happened was that you started Edge yourself, then clicked on the pop-up that sometimes shows up (regardless of updates installed) asking you to switch to "recommended settings" which replaces your default browser. Yes, shitty dark patterns, but definitely not Windows Update replacing those settings behind your back.
  • infamia 5y ago
    I don't know why you would doubt this. Windows updates have been doing this for decades, first with Internet Explorer when they were battling Netscape/Firefox and now (apparently) with Edge. edit: clarity
    • gigel82 5y ago
      I've been running Windows since forever on hundreds of machines and this has literally never once happened to me. Not discounting your experience, just saying it doesn't match my own.
      • infamia 5y ago
        Gotcha, not discounting your experiences either. Every desktop engineer I've met (10's or 100's of thousands of workstations) were well aware of this long-standing, dark pattern (esp. after a med-large upgrades), and gnashed their teeth whenever it was discussed because of the extra work/complications it caused. Hopefully those bad times aren't coming back. I'm not hopeful though. For example, Microsoft's tactics preventing Firefox from changing the default browser reminds me a lot of the nasty, underhanded Microsoft from way back in the day. https://www.ghacks.net/2021/12/21/a-recent-windows-update-prevents-mozillas-workaround-to-set-firefox-as-the-default-browser/ https://www.ghacks.net/2021/12/21/a-recent-windows-update-pr...
    • Beached 5y ago
      I've been using every version of windows since 3.1, literally never had it revert default browser settings on me
• phendrenad2 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? Well, I went into settings and switched my default search engine back to Google. Wonder what I'll have to "deal with" tomorrow. Oh right, nothing. Because it isn't a daily occurrence. Far from it. Some people routinely exaggerate small rare annoyances into a constant ongoing process, and I don't really understand it.
• danlugo92 5y ago
  Migrate to Linux or MacOS, though MacOS has increasingly attained more dark patterns such as those you describe.. You'll instantly get after moving: - No bitrot (it is there but like 5% of what it is in Windows) - No licensing crap - Sane file system (that can actually handle node_modules) - Unix environment (better for developing)
• npteljes 5y ago
  The same I deal with the myriad of other things in my life that's out of control. I grumble, then maybe make some changes. P.s. I use Linux everywhere currently
• pengo 5y ago
  > How do you deal with Microsoft's crap on a daily basis? I don't. I moved fulltime to Linux rather than try to mitigate Windows 10's predations. I wouldn't go back.
• HeavyStorm 5y ago
  Windows is still my main OS because of gaming. Until not so long ago, I would still argue the benefits of this OS over its numerous competitors - HN usually considers Linux, but let's not forget OSX and even mobile systems that can be used full time, at least by non technical people. Nowadays, I just hope that one day I'll be able to game on Linux and never have to boot windows again. The UI is shit (try using multiple languages inputs and have fun with windows), it's still unstable, a damn memory hog (I boot to almost 8 gbs of RAM these days). At least I'll not upgrade to 11. The tpm requirement made sure of it, even if now I've updated my system - I don't think msft deserves my support as a user of their system, considering that they deemed my less than 6 years old machine unfit for 11. And I know the security arguments. Was I more secure by being stuck with Win10? Don't think so.
• popfastful 5y ago
  I use firefox,but the firefox ui is not very nice,so i create new ui that looks like chrome. https://www.alovez.com/bing https://www.alovez.com/bing
• facorreia 5y ago
  I used Windows for many years, but this sort of dark pattern made me switch to Macs.
• esalman 5y ago
  Just installed the latest windows 11 update, it did none of the things OP mentioned.
• Beached 5y ago
  I have yet to have this happen. what version are you using? don't use home, use pro or enterprise.
• nojvek 5y ago
  I worked on Edge for a bit (before it became chromium based). Browsers are ridiculously expensive to maintain. Like on the order of burning billions. The way Edge was funded was that the default engine was Bing. Bing ads is how Edge stays afloat. Seeing how many users changed Chrome to default, this was a constant struggle. It seems some exec finally pulled the trigger and went full hostile to maximize their revenue KPI. I legit still hate the Bing page. It’s slow. It loads with msn ad crap. They even put ads on start menu. We had to constantly spin up new VMs to get Edge. The first user experience with ads on your face was very annoying. I don’t think the execs even seriously dogfooded Windows. It seemed like promo driven development. I don’t know how Apple is able to resist ad revenue unlike Google and Microsoft, but oh boy Apple seems to be cut from a different cloth. This decision seems shortsighted.
• rambojazz 5y ago
  I deal with it by not installing it.
• throwawayvibes 5y ago
• JohannesH 5y ago
  Are there any good options for me to switch to linux, if I'm forced to work on a windows project in visual studio 2022. I guess I can run a Windows VM but I fear performance degradation. Also I guess I could switch my IDE to Rider, but compiling to .NET Framework 4.8 would be impossible on linux I Guess (again It would be fine in a windows VM).
• nokya 5y ago
  I upgraded to windows 10 a few years ago, even paid for the pro version to have it in my home computer. I remember spending more than an hour, checking every possible setting I could to reveal less data. At the end, I felt somehow happy with the situation. A few days later, an upgrade came. I didn't notice immediately but the upgrade has reset all privacy settings to their worst value (of course, default value is the one that benefits Microsoft). I hated that feeling. I felt betrayed, angry and powerless. This was a terrible breach if trust for me (today, I know I seem like the typical naive user but years ago, I trusted their configuration menus). I don't accept this feeling that my privacy should be in control of a small group of individuals who have absolutely zero respect for my privacy. I guess the fact that I had actually bought the pro version purposely to benefit from more privacy influenced my experience. I uninstalled Windows and switched to Ubuntu. Today, my problem is Android/apple. I'd like to get rid of them but I haven't solved this problem yet...