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Music industry is suing youtube-dl hosters
- twirlock 5y ago
- bmac21M 5y agoBitcast.online solves this.
- racuna 5y agoI use youtube-dl to convert to audio some videos and listen them as a podcast in antennapod.
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y agoI would've preferred submitting the article by netzpolitik.org [1] where I first encountered these news but as far as I am aware HN submission are required to be in english. [1]: https://netzpolitik.org/2022/urheberrecht-musikindustrie-verklagt-hoster-von-youtube-dl/ https://netzpolitik.org/2022/urheberrecht-musikindustrie-ver...
- ILMostro7 5y agoJust another example of "Netzpolitik" ;D Sorry, couldn't resist.
- dredmorbius 5y agoNot absolutely required, but very strongly preferred. English is the Lingua Franca of the tech world.
- smm11 5y agoWill the music industry sue the 1978 me, with the tape recorder right next to the radio, and me holding the "record" button to catch my favorite songs (along with the banter leading right up to the first lyrics)?
- belter 5y agoThey already did: "...A royalty on blank audio tape and tape recorders..." https://www.nytimes.com/1985/11/21/arts/issue-and-debate-royalties-on-recorders-and-blank-audio-tapes.html https://www.nytimes.com/1985/11/21/arts/issue-and-debate-roy...
- howdydoo 5y agoThey should also get a royalty on cameras, because someone might take a photo of copyrighted cover art. Oh, and also a royalty on pens and paper, because someone might use them to write down copyrighted lyrics
- iqanq 5y agoIn Spain they get a royalty from everything you can store data on, from hard disks to mobile phones.
- spicybright 5y agoDoes it scale with storage size lol
- smegsicle 5y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy
- somat 5y ago"With the software, which is available on the code sharing platform Github, YouTube videos and music files can be downloaded without a web browser." I could argue that the software is a web browser, admittedly one tailored around a specific use case. I feel the music industry has to do a better job explaining how downloading a youtude video via the youtube-dl user agent is different than downloading the same video via the firefox user agent.
- Hamuko 5y agoAs far as I can tell, the copyright mafia's legal action plan is "throw stuff at the wall, see what sticks". MPA tried to get the source code repository for Nyaa.si removed from GitHub by saying "the Project, which, when downloaded, provides the downloader everything necessary to launch and host a “clone” infringing website identical to Nyaa.si (and, thus, engage in massive infringement of copyrighted motion pictures and television shows)." It was completely bullshit since they forgot to mention that the project provides everything necessary to engage in massive infringement of copyrighted motion pictures and television shows EXCEPT the actual copyrighted motion pictures and television shows. The repo is back up after a reversal: https://github.com/nyaadevs/nyaa/ https://github.com/nyaadevs/nyaa/
- wldcordeiro 5y agoIt's sort of like saying the ownership of a gun makes you a murderer.
- bonzini 5y agoMore like a gun made of soap, as in "Take the money and run".
- dane-pgp 5y agoThat analogy would work if countries with large numbers of privately owned handguns were as safe as (otherwise comparable) countries where such guns were banned. I think we can agree at least that countries which ban communication tools have worse human rights records than countries which don't restrict them as much. Also, I don't dispute the media industry's premise that a government which had complete control over all software installed on people's computers could decide to reduce the amount of copyright infringement.
- yeetaccount4 5y agoEntertainment industry legal shit is beyond stupid. I’ve heard of one person’s pirated music and movie collection that exceeded the GDP of most first world countries, going by the numbers the industry gets awarded in civil suits. They literally just tell the courts how much money they’d like and it gets rubber stamped. If you have money and an army of good attorneys, you usually get what you want.
- omoikane 5y ago> pirated music and movie collection that exceeded the GDP of most first world countries On a similar premise, there is a novel where aliens have been pirating music from Earth and are contemplating their options with respect to their legal liabilities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Zero_(Reid_novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Zero_(Reid_novel)
- jacquesm 5y agoWhat do you mean, you've never heard of the Rigel Convention? Silly earthlings, if you can't be interested in your local affairs... (Thanks, Douglas...)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- habeebtc 5y agoThere was a meme a while back (which was completely accurate), about how the minimum sentence for uploading a Michael Jackson album was less than the sentence the doctor got for literally killing Michael Jackson.
- howdydoo 5y agoI use youtube-dl to download Cracking the Cryptic videos. The RIAA does not own those videos. In fact there are quite a few videos on youtube the RIAA doesn't own.
- zeeZ 5y agoThey own all videos until you can prove otherwise, and win the appeal.
- Longhanks 5y agoAh, I didn’t know other countries too have Germany‘s GEMA-Vermutung (per default assumption of media requiring payment to the GEMA for legal use).
- HWR_14 5y agoThe US doesn't have that same law. YouTube decided to do something similar of their own volition.
- ribosometronome 5y agoWe do, but it doesn't cover most modern devices. From Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy: >17 U.S.C. § 1008 bars copyright infringement action and 17 U.S.C. § 1003 provides for a royalty of 2% of the initial transfer price for devices and 3% for media.[20] The royalty rate in 17 U.S.C. § 1004 was established by the Fairness in Music Licensing Act of 1998. This only applies to CDs which are labeled and sold for music use; they do not apply to blank computer CDs, even though they can be (and often are) used to record or "burn" music from the computer to CD. The royalty also applies to stand-alone CD recorders, but not to CD burners used with computers. Most recently, portable satellite radio recording devices contribute to this royalty fund. >Thanks to a precedent established in a 1998 lawsuit involving the Rio PMP300 player, most MP3 players are deemed "computer peripherals" and are not subject to a royalty of this type in the U.S. >Currently, private copy royalties are generated in the US by the sale of "blank CDs and personal audio devices, media centers, satellite radio devices, and car audio systems that have recording capabilities."[21]
- WheatM 5y ago
- champagnois 5y agoYoutube-DL has been an incredible tool for a very long time. I have never used it for music, but I have used it for countless educational videos that I intended to use while on a subway or a transcontinental flight. The experience of consuming media via an offline software is just infinitely better for my focus. I would rather see Youtube die than Youtube-DL. Youtube-DL has a lot of use cases.
- charcircuit 5y agoI use it for music all of the time. I've downloaded hundreds of songs using it.
- Kaze404 5y agoThat's interesting. I don't personally pirate music (I like collecting CDs), but I know there are much better ways to do so. Some streaming services are so laughably insecure that you can straight up download lossless FLAC from them if you know where to look.
- stemlord 5y agoThat can be done with bandcamp but ironically bandcamp is the one place I'd rather pay because they are a rare platform that's actually pretty good for the artists and listeners alike.
- YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo 5y agoI bet that YouTube-dl is a tool used in some form or way in their own workflows.
- yokoprime 5y agoJoke is on them as everyone is switching over to yt-dlp and other forks.
- pwdisswordfish9 5y agoThe lawsuit may still create a chilling effect against hosting the forks, so it’s not entirely irrelevant.
- cookiengineer 5y ago> chilling effect I understood that reference.
- labrador 5y agoI hope they do take the website down as long youtube-dl stay on github. I want a high technical barrier of entry so the common folk can't conveniently rip off Billy Eilish videos. If only techies and journalists use it responsibly, then the music biz doesn't care, much like archive.is stays up because Mom and Pop don't know they can read the Wall Street Journal for free with it.
- samtheprogram 5y agoI’m confused by their obsession with youtube-dl. I don’t really know anyone that pirates music, seems like streaming has really solved that with ad-supported listening. The common cases for using youtube-dl, as I understand, is for archival (mostly non-music), watching videos content out of the browser (also mostly non-music), and derivative works purposes.
- chaos_a 5y agoyoutube-dl is what makes most youtube music ripping sites function. Which are widely used by people who aren't paying for music streaming subscriptions. ex: https://github.com/Rudloff/alltube https://github.com/Rudloff/alltube
- lottin 5y agoPeople are downloading music clips so that they don't have to listen to ads? Why don't they just install an ad-blocker?
- onemoresoop 5y agoMaybe they want the music clips for offline viewing?
- Shared404 5y agoIndeed. If the industry won't give me a simple way to purchase a file, I'll make my own.
- zepearl 5y agoThat's my case - as I know that some music videos/clips will disappear soon or later for any reason (happened in the past), and as I cannot buy+download them then the only option I'm currently aware of is to download them with youtube-dl. It works reliably and it's simple to use. In my case this often happens "in addition" to buying+downloading the song's mp3 (usually on Amazon).
- crmd 5y agoThe penalties for wrongful copyright assertion should be much more severe than they are today.
- colinmhayes 5y agoYoutube could make the penalty much higher. They don't want to because they know that working with content creation corporations is good for business, and over deletion doesn't hurt their bottom line at all.
- munk-a 5y agoYoutube isn't the party that should be punishing these take-downs. They might be able to apply some pressure to them but only through threatening to remove the DMCA sidestepping process which, honestly, benefits everyone. This is a case of folks with a lot of money persecuting folks with very little money - and that scenario breaks our current legal system. I think we need better support (and a restoration of the removed rights that were sidelined into forced arbitration) for class actions or other styles of group lawsuits. Amicus briefs from prestigious institutions and advocacy groups are surprising effective in this space already - but you can still get really boned when you have a winning case but not enough money to actually win it.
- jMyles 5y agoOr, it can simply not exist while we remove the concept of rightful copyright assertion.
- artificialLimbs 5y agoWhat is your proposed alternative to copyright?
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y agoNot parent, but if you ask me[0]: nothing. The world is not starved for creative content, there is little reason to continue incentivizing its creation so massively. People have shown quite willing to continue creating even while receiving nothing at all for their trouble, and we can always donate money to the people who's work we want to support. Yes, it means no more Disney movies or AAA games. I'm personally quite ok with that. [0] This is largely for the sake of argument, although I do definitely lean this direction.
- jug 5y agoThe music industry and the Streisand effect is a match made in heaven. <3
- solarkraft 5y agoInteresting, I recommended somebody to take a look at Uberspace just yesterday. I can't personally vouch for them because I haven't had a project fitting the profile, but they seem extremely nice mostly partly due to their pricing structure. https://uberspace.de/en/ https://uberspace.de/en/
- Tomte 5y agoI can vouch for them. Great web hosting service.
- sdoering 5y agoDamn. I probably need to up my monthly fee for my different projects I host with them. For more than 12 years now I host my web projects (nearly) exclusively with them. I really enjoy the way they are setup and structured. You pay what 10GB of hosting is worth to you (min 1 Euro). Shared hosting without sudo. Great user support. Really helpful and real knowledgeable people actually trying to help. I can't recommend them enough. When I started I couldn't afford to pay more than a few bucks a month. Now using them professionally and hosting client projects there I can support them by paying more per month. Sadly having to fight in the Hamburg doesn't help. In Germany the Hamburg court is known for their pro music industry stance.
- rcpt 5y agoMan imagine how great the world of music would be today if Napster won in court 20 years ago.
- autoexec 5y agoI can't help but imagine how amazing things would be if we didn't have such an insane copyright system. With the internet and today's tech there's no reason why the full contents of every book ever written shouldn't be available instantly. Same with media. Instead, art, culture, and knowledge are being lost all because a small number of people want to control access and play gatekeeper.
- thirdsun 5y agoI think it is great. You can buy DRM-free lossless music from countless sources like Bandcamp or Qobuz. And if you don't want to bother with that there's always Spotify & Co., which gives you access to a pretty large catalogue of music for a very reasonable price.
- nyjah 5y agoWhy is that streamers and videos on youtube can't play music but xxx web cam models are allowed to? I really don't understand it. Every cam model plays whatever their heart desires. Might not be the best place to ask this, but its something I wonder about a lot.
- kadoban 5y agoBecause enforcement hasn't come for them (yet). No real other reason.
- quux 5y agoThis might be the answer. Peloton in their early years also just streamed whatever music they liked as part of their workout streams, at some point they got big enough to get on the radar of the music industry and now they have to pay royalties.
- habeebtc 5y agoIndeed. I don't think most xxx streamers (or streaming platforms) are "stones" with enough "blood" for them to be worth squeezing.
- yuliyp 5y agoStreamers and other popular YT channels rely on ad revenue from their YT channels. If they play content-id-ed music, the revenue from those videos might go to the music rightsholders instead. For channels which aren't going to be able to get ad revenue due to their content not being "advertiser-friendly" this is not a concern, since they make their money elsewhere.
- azeirah 5y agoStreamers as well as web cam models _aren't_ allowed to play random music, they just do. The only time it's allowed is when they have the appropriate licenses. (sync license under DMCA for music synchronized to live streams) Streamers were doing this without repercussion 5 years ago because the streaming industry wasn't large enough for the music industry to care about. That changed about two years ago. The same holds for cam models, it's just that they're not getting claims for whatever reason. Maybe the music industry just isn't that focused on live pornography?
- can16358p 5y agoHow much more cases like this do we need to switch to a decentralized (either via blockchain, torrent, IPFS or something else) so that no one can stop freedom to shre code anymore?
- PrimeDirective 5y agoGood idea. Every time I commit and push my commits, I pay ledger fees and wait for the settlement for unknown amount of time
- nulld3v 5y agoDecentralized doesn't always mean blockchain.
- PrimeDirective 5y agothe OP mentioned blockchain, so this sarcasm was directed at that
- can16358p 5y agoI've explicitly gave other examples than blockchain solely for this reason.
- npteljes 5y agoDecentralized services need to be much faster and responsive than they are now, and if they would really work for this purpose, then they'll be shut down by some law - like how encrypted transmission is banned on ham radio frequencies[0]. So the most we can enjoy is the small times the mouse is winning in the cat and mouse game. No "anymore" or anything like that. [0] https://ham.stackexchange.com/questions/72/encrypted-traffic-and-amateur-radio https://ham.stackexchange.com/questions/72/encrypted-traffic...
- crtasm 5y agoHow accurate does the reporting from this site tend to be? The sidebar is mostly months old articles about celebrities.
- julienpalard 5y agoNext target of music industry: Firefox & Chrome, because they also allow for listening their music on Youtube.
- sebow 5y agoGood, let the Streisand effect flow through them.I encourage people to host youtube-dl(& it's forks) on GH, Gitlab and things like IPFS. A tool is not piracy.This is not even an argument, let alone a stupid one ,alongside the idiocy of one who believes it.The web already becomes cancerous enough with DRM [Ex: Try installing a FOSS-only system, let's say fedora + librewolf and try playing anything w/o installing flash or drm plugins].
- jakeogh 5y agoAnyone looking for a interesting fork, checkout https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp
- dredmorbius 5y agoForks, and their own hosting providers, can also be legally attacked. The problems are the music industry, the Majors (Sony, Warner, Universal), and ultimately, copyright. Those are what we'll have to change or extirpate.
- lanewinfield 5y agoI used youtube-dl to make my freeze frame twitter bot. https://twitter.com/freezeframebot https://twitter.com/freezeframebot YouTube themselves have blocked my IP too many times so it sadly remains inoperative.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y agoHow is this not just a legal use of web scraping? Google could fix this today by forcing everybody to log into YouTube.
- dredmorbius 5y agoGoogle itself doesn't have sufficient monopoly status to be able to take that step. There are YT alternatives which would jump all over that opportunity.
- stjohnswarts 5y agoCool, are they going to outlaw hammers next? A tool is a tool. No judge in their right mind is going to listen to these huckster corporate lawyers.
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y agoThey would probably rather claim copyright for the sound of a hammer and sue you if you use a hammer because a sample of a hammerstrike was used in some popular song.
- mastazi 5y agoTo me, it sounds like music industry execs are not familiar with the Streisand effect. The first time I became familiar with Youtube-dl, it was during the Github DMCA PR fiasco. The number of stars for Youtube-dl increased sharply as soon as MS reviewed the decision and let them back online.
- victor9000 5y agoI personally appreciate the regular reminders to update my local copy of youtube-dl.
- oynqr 5y agoHere's a reminder to upgrade to yt-dlp
- seanw444 5y agoFor anyone wondering why: it is not consistently maintained anymore. I think I remember something about the owner of the repo steppung down? yt-dlp is an actively maintained, direct fork, with the same features and then some. It also solves an issue that has been lingering for months now where videos download painfully slow on youtube-dl.
- icelancer 5y agoYup. This is the move.
- smt88 5y ago> music industry execs are not familiar with the Streisand effect The Streisand Effect didn't save Napster or Popcorn Time. It could only save these people from the RIAA if they actually made enough money to fight the lawsuits and win.
- JodieBenitez 5y agoTrue... but Soulseek lives on.
- dzhiurgis 5y agoFWIW the best solution is for youtube to stop hosting music
- anotheraccount9 5y agoyoutube-dl is not napster.
- boopmaster 5y agoI used one of these today, to download "deez nuts" and send that lovely vod as embedded in a signal message. I am not everyone, so I assume my use case would explain much of the usage pattern for the service. I am likely wrong.
- jevoten 5y agoSo home taping was also illegal, if this lawsuit bears out? Or is "on a computer" the key difference?
- RIAAsux 5y agoIf the RIAA knew anything about music pirates they'd know we want FLAC files and you can't get that on youtube.
- jimt1234 5y agoyoutube-dl doesn't do anything that couldn't be done with a handful of curl commands; it just simplifies all the requests to the YouTube APIs. ... Oh shit, they're gonna come after curl next! LOL
- anothernewdude 5y agoAs if the only thing on youtube was music, or even copyrighted material.
- henearkr 5y agoAt the same time, "music industry" has the worst behavior in total impunity: Like, for example, how at the beginning of January 2022, Sony Music Entertainment had got ALL the legitimate Youtube videos of the Vienna New Year's Concert forbidden to stream in Japan... This is yet another example of abuse of the fact that Youtube, confronted with a copyright infringement report, will first just block the reported video, and only after that will consider appeals... So now all these videos are allowed again. (took several weeks)
- nchase 5y agoThey’ll never stop people from doing this unless they make it impossible to hijack audio, which doesn’t seem realistic, assuming we always have pure hardware interfaces for audio. If these interfaces go away, the future of music won’t be nearly as much fun as it is now.
- jvanderbot 5y agoI'll never understand the logic behind 'we sent them this file, but they kept it, those evil people!'
- nightfly 5y agoThey don't want normal people to know that's how it works
- grishka 5y agoAny person capable of basic reasoning would understand that any information at all sent to your device could be written to a file for long-term storage. They can't expect people to accept that technology is magic and is sacred enough to not be thought about too hard.
- ZoomZoomZoom 5y agoSorry, but that's not true. A concerning number of users don't know the concept of a file at all. We're losing the battle for general computing, or may have lost already.
- Asooka 5y agoI have been informed by lawyer friends, who have read the YouTube terms of service, that viewing the content from YouTube in any way other than on the YouTube webpage using an interactive user agent is a violation of the terms of service and keeping the file sent to you is a copyright violation, because YouTube didn't authorise such use. Obviously your browser's cache is allowed to keep a partial local copy, because it's doing it in the approved process of showing you the content in the approved manner.
- grishka 5y agoThat's all that legal fluff that shows how insane our society is sometimes. In reality, the service owner is no longer in control of what happens to their content after the bits physically leave their premises. No amount of legalese is going to change that and help enforce this. That's just the way information works. And unlike our artificial laws enacted by governments in the interest of corporations as opposed to regular people, this is a law of physics, so it treats everyone equally and no one gets to choose whether to follow it or not.
- ihuman 5y agoI'm confused. I thought Youtube-DL hosts their website using Github Pages?
- sirius87 5y agoI believe this is about websites that provide streaming site link to audio file conversion services. There are some apps on Google Play store that do this as well. Internally I presume they all use ytdl
- Mashimo 5y agoNope, this is about the https://youtube-dl.org/ https://youtube-dl.org/ website which is hosted on uberspace.de.
- ruffrey 5y agoCan the maintainers host it on IPFS?
- throway453sde 5y ago"youtube-dl" plugin has one neat idea with respect to tests. Both the test and the plugin code for a particular website are in the same file.If the website changes and breaks the plugin updating the tests is much easier way to fix the code. This makes sure tests are always updated, rather the other way of not updating the tests due to no incentive since the problem is already solved which leads to tests being useless.
- hestefisk 5y agoJust host it on IPFS :)
- spacexsucks 5y agoAs MrWhoseTheBoss talks about Samsumg making mashup videos of youtube reviewers videos in https://youtu.be/9V0lXIK9DZQ https://youtu.be/9V0lXIK9DZQ It can be confirmed that someone at samsung is using youtube-dl. All this to say this is all about retaining control for the rich execs and companies and not for the artists. But please do think of the artist and support bandcamp and other such stores. Not these thieves because of whom even taylor had to re-record her songs
- verholom 5y agoYouTube really somehow reacts to the use of third-party utilities for viewing video. Recently noticed that youtube-dl and vlc downloaded video stream with long delays. Stream receiving rate never exceeded 50-60 kbit/sec. One of the youtube-dl forks somehow bypasses this limitation
- whywhywhywhy 5y agoThe https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp fork fixes the throttling.
- MrDresden 5y agoIts coming to a point where the pages and code for these projects would need to be mirrored in so many places that it would simply become impractical for any entity to try to take them down, while still being easiy accessible to all who want to use them.
- blacklight 5y agoThe more they are obsessed with taking down youtube-dl, the more they advertise it and let other people know that it exists, the more I feel like I'm doing the right thing using it on a daily basis. Seriously, we're talking of a tool whose purpose is to download publicly available videos. What's the big deal? It's not even used for music piracy, for God's sake. I've never seen anyone download their favourite album from YouTube videos and use ffmpeg to extract the mp3s. Most of the folks just use Spotify. So what's the big deal? That if we use youtube-dl then we don't see ads and we don't get tracked? Oohh, actually that's the whole fcking point, you know? youtube-dl pisses lots of people in the majors not because it's used to illegally download musical content (I'm pretty sure that's only an insignificant fraction of its usage), but because it hurts their "new" way of doing revenue: ads, tracking, and more ads. And you know what? I'm more than happy to hurt such a shtty way of doing revenue!
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- forinti 5y agoYou can download just the audio with --extract-audio --audio-format mp3
- atoav 5y agoYes, you can do that. I tend to use that for rare and hard to get music (e.g. obscure iranian 60s stuff). However cutting the full albums apart and tagging the resulting songs is serious work that I don't think a lot of people would do realistically in times of spotify.
- eulgro 5y agoYou can download and extract one audio file per song in a playlist easily, there you have the album.
- daef 5y agoi prefer -f251 which downloads opus @153k (48000Hz) (use -F to check available formats)
- q4Zar 5y ago128kbps loosers
- helpfulmandrill 5y agoI hate these people so much.
- mdp2021 5y agoCounter-promote the music industry. Stop feeding them etc. Many of us had to start doing that - some, particularly as DRM made purchases unfeasible (you buy a container and it only works on a section of Pioneelips models, or it works on the PC but not in the car stereo etc).
- j1elo 5y agoThis applies: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29622272 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29622272 I would sincerely have thought that youtube-dl would be hosted on some random non-cooperative country, instead of Germany. That it wasn't, came out as a surprise to me.