32 ms·

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has jus

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going to stop worrying about it. We're still very unclear on the long-term effects of COVID, after all. Couple that to daycare/preschool shutdowns: if there's a case in the class we've got to keep our kids at home for a week. We both work. We can deal with it, lord knows we've had to do it enough times already, but it's absolutely draining. And the stress of waiting/expecting the phone call from the school is always there, particularly in this Omicron phase where it feels like everyone and their dog is contracting it. And this comes from two parents that work from home. We're the luckiest of the lot! Pfizer has already announced their trial with under 5s was not successful and they'll have to restart. Moderna was supposed to close out a trial in late November but instead expanded it to hundreds of new participants. Why? Unclear. Last I saw no-one seems to be covering it in detail. Out of sight, out of mind.

joelbondurant1 5y ago
ya_throw 5y ago
Are you saying that until young kids can get vaccinated, it is not safe enough to remove shutdown protocols for preschools? Parent of 2 very young kids here btw - it's been brutal, I feel your pain. Frankly, our kids get enough other diseases from nursery that a months-long scratchy cough doesn't sound too terrifying.
- afavour 5y ago
  > Are you saying that until young kids can get vaccinated, it is not safe enough to remove shutdown protocols for preschools? I have no idea. I'm not an expert. And no experts seem to be talking. Our preschool recently switched from a 14 day shutdown to 7 day plus negative PCR test to re-enter. At least there's that? > Frankly, our kids get enough other diseases from nursery that a months-long scratchy cough doesn't sound too terrifying. We'll have to agree to disagree there. My kids have never had anything that's lasted for months, the kid I know with the cough was waking up in the middle of the night coughing most nights. No thank you.
  - ya_throw 5y ago
    We had RSV do the rounds (twice) where I live, and all of us in our house were quite ill, fatigued, and snotty/coughy for about a month. Our friend's 6 month-old caught it and ended up in hospital. Our youngest also had Croup last year, which is pretty scary if you don't know it. It shows up as a horrible, barking cough, and can make it look like your baby is suddenly struggling to breathe. We panicked and called an ambulance. The little one was just fine, but had the horrible cough (which is much worse at night) for a while. Once our pre-school care re-opened (it was shut for many months after March 2020) and the regular diseases started circulation again, it felt like we were ill for several months, albeit with different diseases. We'd send our kids in on Monday, and wait to see what we'd have for the weekend... I'm not saying this to complain - as I see it, this is the reality of life with the little snot-nosed monsters.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      I am in the same boat as you. It is crazy to me that we accepted the risks of every other RSV, influenza, corona, rhino, rota, noro, and whatever other bug going around daycare every week prior to Mar 2020, and still do, but if a COVID 19 is detected, then the whole thing shuts down. Every single one of those kids at drop-off and pickup has a runny nose. I am pretty sure we have an informal agreement amongst all the parents that no one gets their kid tested for COVID. It is one thing to do all this song and dance without an available vaccine, but it has been widely available for over a year.
      - ya_throw 5y ago
        Yep. Sometimes when I air opinions like these, I get the response "but attitudes like that will keep the pandemic and shutdowns going for longer!". It's surprisingly hard to explain that I also don't want my nursery to shutdown if someone merely tests positive for Covid. Personally, I've decided to re-brand "asymptomatic" as "not ill".
        pasabagi 5y ago
        This sounds like a bad policy on the nursery's part. We have a soft lockdown when somebody has a case: basically, the group who had a positive test is secluded from the other groups and get daily tests.
- nostrademons 5y ago
  The challenge is the lack of data on long-term effects of COVID. Preliminary studies have linked it to cognitive declines [1], diabetes [2], and chronic fatigue [3]. And while death from COVID in a preschooler is about a 1-in-100,000 occurrence, long COVID and other chronic outcomes seem to be much more common. I've heard figures of about 5% or 1 in 20. Few parents would willingly sign their preschooler (or themselves) up for intellectual disabilities, type-1 diabetes, or chronic fatigue syndrome. [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7102e2.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7102e2.htm [3] https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-region/2022/01/08/long-covid-fatigue-and-brain-fog-affecting-many-people-long-after-initial-diagnosis-researchers-find.html https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-region/2022/01/08/lo...
  - ya_throw 5y ago
    Where have you heard those figures from? (I assume you are telling me that 5% of pre-schoolers, in your experience, have had chronic outcomes from Covid). Yes, I have seen many preliminary studies linking Covid to many different long-term health problems [1]. Personally, and especially as Covid has been around for over 2 years at this point, I strongly prefer to avoid the obvious long-term damage caused to my kids by the disruption of their academic and social development. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/10/01/restless-anal-syndrome-affects-man-who-had-covid-19-coronavirus-infection/?sh=7bba68215bf5 https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/10/01/restless-an...
    - nostrademons 5y ago
      I listed sources in my original comment. From the first link, they observed 4.8% of lab-confirmed cases exhibited continuing symptoms, and the average effect on cognitive performance was 0.47 standard deviations (equivalent to about 8 IQ points, or roughly the effect of a stroke). The CDC study has some methodological problems (detailed in nradov & DannyCasolaro's sibling posts), but previous meta-analyses have documented similar effects; they covered only severely-ill patients, but came up with a pooled proportion of 14%. Chronic fatigue is reported as a symptom 6 months following in 46% of cases [2], but again, that study is for adults. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/11/18/1055071699/coronavirus-faq-what-is-long-covid-and-what-is-my-risk-of-getting-it https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/11/18/1055071... [2] https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3425/11/6/760 https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3425/11/6/760
el_benhameen 5y ago
I am with you on all of this, with one small, slightly hopeful note. My under-5 is enrolled in the Pfizer study, and they are not starting over from scratch. The existing cohort is going to receive a third dose at >2 months past their last dose (starting at the end of this month, probably), and then immunogenicity will be reassessed. I am incredibly frustrated that pfizer and the fda have been so slow to roll the vaccine out to under-5s, but at least they don’t need to re-do recruitment and phase 1, etc.
- afavour 5y ago
  That’s amazing news, thank you for letting folks know! Also thanks for participating in the trial, you’re doing a good deed for us all.
  - el_benhameen 5y ago
    All thanks are due to the kid :). All I have to do is drive the kidmobile and enjoy my share of the ice cream bribe.
- bequanna 5y ago
  Are the children in this trial part of high risk groups? I guess I am quite surprised to hear that there are drug trials for healthy children that young. In this case, the risk/reward seems very imbalanced almost to the point being unethical.
  - Larrikin 5y ago
    There are so many shots new borns and toddlers receive. It is not unusual at all for the young to receive vaccines.
    - bequanna 5y ago
      Right…Vaccines we have been using for many years.
mizzack 5y ago
You've got your anecdotes, and I've got mine. My 3 young kids all caught omicron last week. Each were lethargic for a day, had a minor sore throat, and were back to normal in a day or two. The flu last month was way scarier with high fevers. There's a lot of reason to be optimistic about omicron.
- kimmeld 5y ago
  - tanseydavid 5y ago
    >> That’s why we are still in this pandemic. Too many selfish assholes. Are you really saying that 'suggesting optimism' is equivalent to being a "selfish asshole"? I do not understand your application of logic here. Are you also saying that a particular course-of-action would have resulted in an "end to the pandemic" by this point in time?
    - micromacrofoot 5y ago
      The parent comment kind of came off as "why are you worrying and not more optimistic, my kids are fine" which seems like a dismissive way to respond to someone's worries about their own kids.
      - mostertoaster 5y ago
        The problem is the person worried about their kids also wants everyone else to worry about their kids. Problem is I have my own kids to worry about, and I worry plenty, just not about covid.
        micromacrofoot 5y ago
        When someone shares their feelings it doesn't mean they want you to feel like they do. The original comment was expressing frustration with a situation that feels like everyone's moving on without them. As a person in the same situation I didn't get the sense it was trying to scare me at all, and find myself similarly frustrated.
mschuster91 5y ago
> Couple that to daycare/preschool shutdowns: if there's a case in the class we've got to keep our kids at home for a week. We both work. We can deal with it, lord knows we've had to do it enough times already, but it's absolutely draining. At least now people start to realize that they work too much and that schools are not institutions of education any more but rather prisons for children so that their parents can be exploited by the capitalist elite class, having to work only to barely make rent. Parents should be able to parent their children and the time effort required for that doesn't fly with both parents having to work 40 hours a week. When you have to get up at 0600 to get ready for the day, leave at 0800 for the job, come home at 1800, spend an hour making and eating dinner, you only have four to five hours with your children - and stuff like hobbies (both for parents and children), sex, dealing with adult stuff (insurances, paperwork) hasn't even been included yet.
- aklemm 5y ago
  Right on, and I can’t believe how seldom it’s heard. The current work-life-society bargain is terrible and we should expect terrible results until it’s re-negotiated.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    Those in power (and many of the population on HN, I dare bet) have nannies, au-pairs and other forms of easing the load of child raising, so they don't feel the pressures. Those who bear the full load have no representation in politics, either by socioeconomic class (most representatives are highly privileged) or by ethnic history (non-citizens cannot vote, even if they have permanent residence and pay taxes).
    - aklemm 5y ago
      And the “family values” folks, oddly, are no help.
hutzlibu 5y ago
"a months-long scratchy cough" But isn't that normal at times for a cold season with kids? There are lots of really nasty diseases children can get, where safe vaccinations exist. But most data so far told me with covid I have to worry much more about the social developement of my kids. That was really restricted and that is not good.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Not this cough. One of my children has this and he sounds more like his 86 year old uncle than a normal child, and it's been going on for ever, without much in terms of improvement. I really pity him. But I'm coughing just as bad...
  - hcknwscommenter 5y ago
    I've not followed this aspect much. Certainly the virus has long since cleared. So, what is going on with the long-term lung involvement? Scarring?
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      I can't speak for my son but for me the trigger seems to be some damage at the back of my throat from the crazy bouts of coughing when I had COVID and now any kind of irritation there will set me off. Very frustrating, especially when you are chairing long meetings.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    I hope you will all recover!
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      We've all recovered from COVID (2nd bout for me :(, apparently both a prior round and vaccine were not enough to stave it off completely but it was only a small fraction as bad as the first one). It's just the cough that remains.
nradov 5y ago
RSV is more dangerous than COVID-19 for most small children. We don't shut down society because of RSV. https://www.medscape.com/answers/971488-177692/what-is-the-prognosis-of-respiratory-syncytial-virus-rsvinfection https://www.medscape.com/answers/971488-177692/what-is-the-p...
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > RSV is more dangerous than COVID-19 for most small children. Children don’t exist in isolation. They’re phenomenally good at spreading every infection to the rest of the household and everywhere else they go. Trying to focus on children's outcomes and ignoring all of the second-order effects is dishonest. Children don’t live alone.
  - BTCOG 5y ago
  - nradov 5y ago
    The other members of the household are already vaccinated for COVID-19 if they want to be. The vaccines are still highly effective at preventing deaths. RSV isn't really safe for adults either. But we accept the risk.
    - meatsauce 5y ago
      So effective, you go from 98.999% recoverable to 99.998% recoverable. Amazing. So glad we shut down everything and destroyed countless lives for less than 1% of gain.
      - hcknwscommenter 5y ago
        Your numbers are . . . oddly chosen. Nevertheless, consider the following: Calculate (1-(98.99/100)7.753 billion to get 78 million deaths Calculate (1-(99.998/100)7.753 billion to get 155,060 deaths. That seems like really good progress.
      - 5y ago
jsodw 5y ago
- jeremyjh 5y ago
  Moderna's mRNA vaccine is based on one they tested for SARS-Cov-1 in 2003, and they have done long-term follow-up on those participants. They all turned into alligators after 15 years.
  - astn-austin 5y ago
    That's like saying: the crotch rocket is based on internal combustion engines, that have been proven safe in multiple automobiles. So crotch rockets are safe because they use internal combustion engines. MRNA is the platform. You can do good and bad things with the same platform.
    - hcknwscommenter 5y ago
      More like saying, the Ninja 200xcr is a minor update of the Ninja 199xcr, which has been around since 2003 and shown to be safe when properly operated. So, Ninja 200xrc is almost certainly safe too.
  - craigkilgo 5y ago
    How do you think we got Killer Croc?
- robbrown451 5y ago
  And we don't know the long term psychological effects of wearing masks and social distancing. Those may be substantial as well, especially if it goes on for more than 2 years. Long term COVID is known to exist, long term effects of vaccination are not and there is no reason to think they are likely. (me: vaxxed, boosted, happy to boost some more. My 7 year old: vaxxed. My attitude: exactly as described as a "VAD" in the article)
  - astrange 5y ago
agensaequivocum 5y ago
My whole family had covid last February including my three young children including one under 1. The children had the mildest symptoms. If you are worried about your children getting covid then I hope you never let near a car as they are much more likely to die in a car crash than covid. If you want to continue locking your self up fine, I don't care. Just don't try to force others to do the same.
- jorblumesea 5y ago
  But you spread the virus, so it's not just about your own personal experience.
  - syshum 5y ago
    Welcome to living in a society, Some how we flipped the script on what freedom means. If you do not accept the risk of coming in contact with things like the Common Cold, Flu, and now COVID, then you need to structure your life to be hermit, not have society bow to your fears
    - rabuse 5y ago
      Exactly. Why should I have to isolate for YOUR fears? YOU should isolate, if you're worried.
      - nathanaldensr 5y ago
        If you haven't already, research the term "safetyism."
      - jorblumesea 5y ago
        You stop people from getting elective surgeries and seriously disrupt society by being out and about eating indoors or not taking proper precautions. This isn't hard to understand. Hospitals are buckling under the weight of cases. Even if you personally recover from it, some do not or the impact of your decisions is far beyond what you personally feel. It's an absurd point and highlights the ignorance around the entire problem. Your personal choices have consequences far outside of whether you personally suffer or end up hospitalized.
40four 5y ago
To be fair, the long term of effects of the vaccines are still very unclear. For adults and children. There are concerning reports regarding serious complications that tend to not get talked about very much in the media I chose to vaccinate myself. I don’t have kids, but I’m not sure it would be a given that I would vaccinate them yet. I think I would want to have a better understanding of the risks. Sorry you’re in that position, I’m sure it’s stressful. After listening to Dr. Robert Malone, I’m beginning to wonder if there aren’t a non-trivial number of physicians against vaccinating kids, who are getting censored. He is adamantly against it. Problem is we can’t even have conversations about it in social media without folks getting censored.
- warning26 5y ago
  If you're interested in Malone, I definitely recommend reading the Atlantic article about him: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-m... TLDR: he got spurned early on in his career, is bitter about it, and seems to be willing to say just about anything as long as someone will give him some modicum of fame.
  - slices 5y ago
    If you're interested in Malone, don't just read that hit piece, written by an author who had previously stuck to woke issues. Wikipedia's not perfect, but his article there would be an improvement.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    Who, the author of that hit piece, or Malone? Ridiculous to try to sum up a scientist's life with a shallow hit piece written by a daft "woke" author. Typical mudslinging strategy to discredit dissenters. I can't believe people actually read trash like The Atlantic at this point.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  According to [1] Mr Malone said "mRNA vaccine technology I created" which is not true as far as I can find tell. He did work on mRNA technology decades ago but didn't invent mRNA vaccines. He also states that "The first is that a viral gene will be injected into your children's cells. This gene forces your child’s body to make toxic spike proteins.". What does that even mean, a "viral gene"? Toxic spike proteins? Sounds like fear mongering to me given how it's worded. Furthermore he states that "These proteins *often* cause permanent damage in children’s critical organs, including -Their brain and nervous system -Their heart and blood vessels, including blood clots -Their reproductive system, and -This vaccine can trigger fundamental changes to their immune system" There is absolutely no data supporting any of this as far as I can find. Should we trust this person? [1] https://globalcovidsummit.org/news/live-stream-event-physicians-alerting-parents https://globalcovidsummit.org/news/live-stream-event-physici...
oxymoran 5y ago
“ We're still very unclear on the long-term effects of COVID, after all.” Nor do we know the long term effects of the vaccines. What we do know is that children have “statistical immunity” to dying from covid right now. Long term consequences could come from either covid or a vaccine, worry about what you can control. And covid is out of control so stop worrying about it.
- astrange 5y ago
  Vaccines don't have long term effects.
  - artursapek 5y ago
    Tell that to all the poor bastards now living with myocarditis.
    - astrange 5y ago
      That's a short term effect (i.e. we already know about it), and one that actual covid is much more likely to give you. Also, the problem with VAERS reports is the people may just have already had it - that's why side effects for medications sometimes list the original condition as a side effect.
      - mikeyouse 5y ago
        And also, something like 75% of myocarditis resolves completely on its own (and like you mentioned, most myocarditis is caused by viral infection...). Properly risk-weighting all of this is hard, thankfully public health experts have done so and still recommend nearly universal vaccination!
      - TurboHaskal 5y ago
        Keep doing boosters every N months and the risk of myocarditis will eventually be greater than Covid.
taf2 5y ago
If they are not immune compromised you have nothing to worry about. IMO - you should be more worried about the physiological impacts of your changes in behavior around then in regard to your fear… it will have probably longer lasting effects on them.
rhino369 5y ago
You'll drive yourself crazy focusing on every minor risk for children. COVID risk for unvaxed kids is the same as fully vaxed 40 years and much lower than fully vaxed seniors. If you want to do some productive worrying, figure out how to reduce your child's risk of dying in a car crash. That's much more of a risk. >Moderna was supposed to close out a trial in late November but instead expanded it to hundreds of new participants. Why? Unclear. If I had to guess it is probably because you need a large group to prove its effective since so few children get seriously ill. Child mortality is under 0.0002%. You need a huge control group to get any sense of whether the vaccine works at preventing deaths.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- a45a33s 5y ago
  lol well they already got rid of the control group at the beginning of the original trials
- drewrv 5y ago
  > figure out how to reduce your child's risk of dying in a car crash Most parents already do some form of this. Car seats, booster seats, researching crash test data....
  - cudgy 5y ago
    And then they buy their kids a motorized scooter or skateboard for their birthday…
robbrown451 5y ago
The daycare / preschool shutdowns, though, are simply because others haven't yet adopted the "vaxxed and done" attitude. So I understand that you still need to be cautious, but you can also advocate for daycares and preschools being less hardcore about it. I'm definitely moving toward being vaxxed and done, but the mom of my (vaxxed) 7 year old (i.e. my ex) is still in the cautious camp. I'm ok with waiting till the end of the surge or the end of the winter to dispense with the masks, but at that point.... yeah this thing needs to end. If you are dumb enough not to get yourself vaccinated and boosted, well, I'm sorry but that's on you.
amelius 5y ago
Let's be clear. More people die of air pollution and climate change than of COVID, but the latter turns out to be a disease that requires immediate care which is why it gets more attention. Before the attitude changes and governments broaden their view, I can understand why people feel "done" with it. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-03-10/air-pollution-kills-far-more-people-than-covid-ever-will https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-03-10/air-po...
rajup 5y ago
Just fyi a cough persisting for a few weeks after an initial infection is nothing new at all (COVID or otherwise). I have suffered a few weeks of persistent cough after a viral/bacterial respiratory infection pre-pandemic and unfortunately am suffering right now with an annoying cough. But it will go away in a couple of weeks.
mostertoaster 5y ago
To each his own? Like you’re free to worry about it, you’re free to be as safety minded as you want, you’re free to treat covid like the Black Death for all I care. Am I free to just not worry about it anymore than I would the flu? (Which is very little, unless I’m going on a trip in like a week then I’m like I ain’t going out for anything) I will pretend like covid is just a common cold until the fearful ask me to do some silly exercise like put my mask on at target so that their minds can be put at ease.
LouisSayers 5y ago
There's research coming out that shows the vaccines are causing heart inflammation (1) in younger people, so I'd show some caution in getting kids vaccinated. I'm not sure how it compares to the effects of covid itself, just something to think about / read up on to make an informed decision. 1) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0
- zzzeek 5y ago
  flagged. the virus itself is much more dangerous in this regard, it's right in the study: > We estimated extra myocarditis events to be between 1 and 10 per million persons in the month following vaccination, which was substantially lower than the 40 extra events per million persons observed following SARS-CoV-2 infection. > Whilst myocarditis can be life-threatening, most vaccine-associated myocarditis events have been mild and self-limiting. The risk observed here is small and confined to the 7-day period following vaccination, whereas the lifetime risk of morbidity and mortality following SARS-CoV-2 infection is substantial.
  - sqrt_1 5y ago
    I posted this above - also from the study "Subgroup analyses by age showed that the increased risk of events associated with the two mRNA vaccines was present only in those aged under 40 years." This graph shows it: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0/figures/2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0/figures/2
coryrc 5y ago
My kid's in day care. He's gotten a dozen diseases since starting. For all we know one was covid. With all this prevention none of these other diseases were stopped so why would anyone think covid could be stopped? It clearly can't.
- Ergo19 5y ago
  The interventions deployed against COVID had indeed stopped a notable disease - influenza. It is noteworthy that these interventions were designed to fight the flu, apparently because that was the public health playbook at hand. But I agree it is remarkable how interventions which could crush the flu don't seem to bother any number of common cold viruses much at all.
TheMagicHorsey 5y ago
There seems to be very strong data to suggest Covid is a non-issue for children under 5. I think if you are vaxed and boosted, and your older children are vaxed, and you don't live with an unvaxed vulnerable person, you can now safely continue your life activities ... mask if it doesn't inconvenience you.
artursapek 5y ago
> We're still very unclear on the long-term effects of COVID, after all. And even less so the vaccines. When your kids catch COVID they will have mild symptoms for a day or two and bounce back much faster than you or I. And yes it's a "when", not an "if". Vaccinating them against this virus is lunacy. There have been no long term studies on these shots.
mywacaday 5y ago
I wasn't aware that the under 5 trial had failed, we are currently deciding if we will give it to our 6 year old. From a biologial/science perspective can someone here explain why might the vaccine work in a 5 year old and not in a 3/4 year old?
jquery 5y ago
As someone with a kid in daycare, stay close to the science. Young children are at low risk, the primary danger of them getting it is spreading it through the community. My daycare takes reasonable precautions and does contact tracing when a case appears, and follows CDC and professional medical guidelines, and until Omicron they kept Covid out completely. There’s been more cases at the center in the last two weeks than the entire year before that. All I can do is stay current on my vaccines and wear a mask where appropriate. Anyway, keep doing your best. There are those of us who still have empathy for you, even if many want to bully you as some sort of coward for being cautious around a novel virus that’s killed 1 million Americans and disabled countless others.
StanislavPetrov 5y ago
A young child faces far more risk of dying in a car crash on the way to pre-school or Chuck-E-Cheese than they do of covid, but I'll wager you didn't give up driving your kid around. Your child could get struck by lightning, or get bitten by a rabid racoon, but (hopefully) you don't dwell on the risks and live your life paralyzed in fear by them (yes, these risks are the same order of magnitude of a child dying from COVID). The same goes for having your infant or young child injected with experimental vaccines, whose long-term effects are just as unknown and unknowable as COVID.
yucky 5y ago
>Moderna was supposed to close out a trial in late November but instead expanded it to hundreds of new participants. Why? Unclear. Well if you look at all the European countries that are no longer giving Moderna to males under 30, I think you'll have your answer. Don't wait for CNN to tell you why either. Also, scroll through here https://airtable.com/shrbaT4x8LG8EbvVG/tbl7xKsSUIOPAa7Mx https://airtable.com/shrbaT4x8LG8EbvVG/tbl7xKsSUIOPAa7Mx
anm89 5y ago
I understand this sentiment but what is it that you actually want? Reality gets canceled forever because your kids might get a scratchy throat for a few months? So we punish all of society to lower the probability of kids getting a disease which may make them uncomfortable for a while but may do basically nothing to them? Sorry but I'm willing to call that an acceptable risk.
erikerikson 5y ago
I sympathize. Our kid is in the next window (5-12) and it has been a grand relief to get him vaccinated but when everyone was excited that they were vaccinated we felt very left behind. We continue to be responsible with our behavior but we also have been relaxing and carefully opening up. You are not forgotten and lots of us still care. Hang on and best of luck!
gremlinsinc 5y ago
I've got a 3 and 4 year old... I'm vaxxed and done (until booster time)... 4 yr old is ASD spectrum, can't really keep him out of school he needs to learn socialization skills, etc... 3yr old is way advanced verbally and starts preschool as soon as we can get him in. I've kinda given up on worry, because there's really no way it hasn't already come around us. Maybe during allergy season in the fall when we all were sick'ish. Or maybe some fluke it hasn't - but my county has 42% vax rate, so doubt it (Utah). I just can't mentally focus on it anymore (anxiety kills too), and statistically we're better off than before the boosters.... so in my brain it's over...for us. We probably should go back to masking up, and have thought about it. Really can't get myself motivated to even decide if it's worth it... I have ADHD and my exec/function motivation is suffering bad lately from the stress. I think people are literally idiots who aren't vaxxed, and I wouldn't be so cavalier if we weren't...my biggest fears were not so much my kids getting sick but my kids growing up orphaned by Covid. They already lost a grandma (Cancer+lack of decent availability to treatment during covid). If my wife and I passed in our sleep, I can't imagine what would happen to the boys all by themselves until someone checks in on them... I'm glad that fear is mostly off the table (I mean -- death is always lurking....but not like before).
cat_plus_plus 5y ago
I also don't want anyone in my family to get COVID, vaccinated or not. But my wishes are irrelevant when our suburb's school district got 600+ cases 4 days. We will all get exposed in a few weeks unless we live like hermits. And if we do, we will get exposed within a few weeks of coming out of bubblewrap. New vaccines are not going to be approved in time to protect anyone. So instead of agonizing about the inevitable, we just live our lives and focus on all the other ways we can improve our health and safety. We had months long scratchy cough from swine flu before, didn't stop traveling because of that, will not stop now.
complexmango 5y ago
Are you also going to prohibit your kids from riding in a car because the chances of a traffic accident are non zero? Asking because kids 1-4 are being hospitalized for COVID at the rate of 1.6/100,000, deaths are at 2/1,000,000 and traffic accident mortality is 11/100,000. https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/covid-risks-for-small-children https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/covid-risks-for-small-chil... https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state...
caffeine 5y ago
> if there's a case in the class we've got to keep our kids at home for a week The answer to that might be to just all agree not to do this any more. Vaccine or not, the policy of shutting down a whole class if anyone has a case of CoVID is just silly for preschool aged kids. A more cynical view: There is already a known safe and effective way to develop antibodies in children to stop transmitting CoVID, and that's ... letting them get CoVID! So actually if a child in the class gets CoVID, maybe they should be required to sing to the whole class in a small room for a week.

joelbondurant1 5y ago

ya_throw 5y ago

Are you saying that until young kids can get vaccinated, it is not safe enough to remove shutdown protocols for preschools? Parent of 2 very young kids here btw - it's been brutal, I feel your pain. Frankly, our kids get enough other diseases from nursery that a months-long scratchy cough doesn't sound too terrifying.

afavour 5y ago
> Are you saying that until young kids can get vaccinated, it is not safe enough to remove shutdown protocols for preschools? I have no idea. I'm not an expert. And no experts seem to be talking. Our preschool recently switched from a 14 day shutdown to 7 day plus negative PCR test to re-enter. At least there's that? > Frankly, our kids get enough other diseases from nursery that a months-long scratchy cough doesn't sound too terrifying. We'll have to agree to disagree there. My kids have never had anything that's lasted for months, the kid I know with the cough was waking up in the middle of the night coughing most nights. No thank you.
- ya_throw 5y ago
  We had RSV do the rounds (twice) where I live, and all of us in our house were quite ill, fatigued, and snotty/coughy for about a month. Our friend's 6 month-old caught it and ended up in hospital. Our youngest also had Croup last year, which is pretty scary if you don't know it. It shows up as a horrible, barking cough, and can make it look like your baby is suddenly struggling to breathe. We panicked and called an ambulance. The little one was just fine, but had the horrible cough (which is much worse at night) for a while. Once our pre-school care re-opened (it was shut for many months after March 2020) and the regular diseases started circulation again, it felt like we were ill for several months, albeit with different diseases. We'd send our kids in on Monday, and wait to see what we'd have for the weekend... I'm not saying this to complain - as I see it, this is the reality of life with the little snot-nosed monsters.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    I am in the same boat as you. It is crazy to me that we accepted the risks of every other RSV, influenza, corona, rhino, rota, noro, and whatever other bug going around daycare every week prior to Mar 2020, and still do, but if a COVID 19 is detected, then the whole thing shuts down. Every single one of those kids at drop-off and pickup has a runny nose. I am pretty sure we have an informal agreement amongst all the parents that no one gets their kid tested for COVID. It is one thing to do all this song and dance without an available vaccine, but it has been widely available for over a year.
    - ya_throw 5y ago
      Yep. Sometimes when I air opinions like these, I get the response "but attitudes like that will keep the pandemic and shutdowns going for longer!". It's surprisingly hard to explain that I also don't want my nursery to shutdown if someone merely tests positive for Covid. Personally, I've decided to re-brand "asymptomatic" as "not ill".
      - pasabagi 5y ago
        This sounds like a bad policy on the nursery's part. We have a soft lockdown when somebody has a case: basically, the group who had a positive test is secluded from the other groups and get daily tests.
nostrademons 5y ago
The challenge is the lack of data on long-term effects of COVID. Preliminary studies have linked it to cognitive declines [1], diabetes [2], and chronic fatigue [3]. And while death from COVID in a preschooler is about a 1-in-100,000 occurrence, long COVID and other chronic outcomes seem to be much more common. I've heard figures of about 5% or 1 in 20. Few parents would willingly sign their preschooler (or themselves) up for intellectual disabilities, type-1 diabetes, or chronic fatigue syndrome. [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(21)00324-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7102e2.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7102e2.htm [3] https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-region/2022/01/08/long-covid-fatigue-and-brain-fog-affecting-many-people-long-after-initial-diagnosis-researchers-find.html https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-region/2022/01/08/lo...
- ya_throw 5y ago
  Where have you heard those figures from? (I assume you are telling me that 5% of pre-schoolers, in your experience, have had chronic outcomes from Covid). Yes, I have seen many preliminary studies linking Covid to many different long-term health problems [1]. Personally, and especially as Covid has been around for over 2 years at this point, I strongly prefer to avoid the obvious long-term damage caused to my kids by the disruption of their academic and social development. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/10/01/restless-anal-syndrome-affects-man-who-had-covid-19-coronavirus-infection/?sh=7bba68215bf5 https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/10/01/restless-an...
  - nostrademons 5y ago
    I listed sources in my original comment. From the first link, they observed 4.8% of lab-confirmed cases exhibited continuing symptoms, and the average effect on cognitive performance was 0.47 standard deviations (equivalent to about 8 IQ points, or roughly the effect of a stroke). The CDC study has some methodological problems (detailed in nradov & DannyCasolaro's sibling posts), but previous meta-analyses have documented similar effects; they covered only severely-ill patients, but came up with a pooled proportion of 14%. Chronic fatigue is reported as a symptom 6 months following in 46% of cases [2], but again, that study is for adults. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/11/18/1055071699/coronavirus-faq-what-is-long-covid-and-what-is-my-risk-of-getting-it https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/11/18/1055071... [2] https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3425/11/6/760 https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3425/11/6/760

el_benhameen 5y ago

I am with you on all of this, with one small, slightly hopeful note. My under-5 is enrolled in the Pfizer study, and they are not starting over from scratch. The existing cohort is going to receive a third dose at >2 months past their last dose (starting at the end of this month, probably), and then immunogenicity will be reassessed. I am incredibly frustrated that pfizer and the fda have been so slow to roll the vaccine out to under-5s, but at least they don’t need to re-do recruitment and phase 1, etc.

afavour 5y ago
That’s amazing news, thank you for letting folks know! Also thanks for participating in the trial, you’re doing a good deed for us all.
- el_benhameen 5y ago
  All thanks are due to the kid :). All I have to do is drive the kidmobile and enjoy my share of the ice cream bribe.
bequanna 5y ago
Are the children in this trial part of high risk groups? I guess I am quite surprised to hear that there are drug trials for healthy children that young. In this case, the risk/reward seems very imbalanced almost to the point being unethical.
- Larrikin 5y ago
  There are so many shots new borns and toddlers receive. It is not unusual at all for the young to receive vaccines.
  - bequanna 5y ago
    Right…Vaccines we have been using for many years.

mizzack 5y ago

You've got your anecdotes, and I've got mine. My 3 young kids all caught omicron last week. Each were lethargic for a day, had a minor sore throat, and were back to normal in a day or two. The flu last month was way scarier with high fevers. There's a lot of reason to be optimistic about omicron.

kimmeld 5y ago
- tanseydavid 5y ago
  >> That’s why we are still in this pandemic. Too many selfish assholes. Are you really saying that 'suggesting optimism' is equivalent to being a "selfish asshole"? I do not understand your application of logic here. Are you also saying that a particular course-of-action would have resulted in an "end to the pandemic" by this point in time?
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    The parent comment kind of came off as "why are you worrying and not more optimistic, my kids are fine" which seems like a dismissive way to respond to someone's worries about their own kids.
    - mostertoaster 5y ago
      The problem is the person worried about their kids also wants everyone else to worry about their kids. Problem is I have my own kids to worry about, and I worry plenty, just not about covid.
      - micromacrofoot 5y ago
        When someone shares their feelings it doesn't mean they want you to feel like they do. The original comment was expressing frustration with a situation that feels like everyone's moving on without them. As a person in the same situation I didn't get the sense it was trying to scare me at all, and find myself similarly frustrated.

mschuster91 5y ago

> Couple that to daycare/preschool shutdowns: if there's a case in the class we've got to keep our kids at home for a week. We both work. We can deal with it, lord knows we've had to do it enough times already, but it's absolutely draining. At least now people start to realize that they work too much and that schools are not institutions of education any more but rather prisons for children so that their parents can be exploited by the capitalist elite class, having to work only to barely make rent. Parents should be able to parent their children and the time effort required for that doesn't fly with both parents having to work 40 hours a week. When you have to get up at 0600 to get ready for the day, leave at 0800 for the job, come home at 1800, spend an hour making and eating dinner, you only have four to five hours with your children - and stuff like hobbies (both for parents and children), sex, dealing with adult stuff (insurances, paperwork) hasn't even been included yet.

aklemm 5y ago
Right on, and I can’t believe how seldom it’s heard. The current work-life-society bargain is terrible and we should expect terrible results until it’s re-negotiated.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  Those in power (and many of the population on HN, I dare bet) have nannies, au-pairs and other forms of easing the load of child raising, so they don't feel the pressures. Those who bear the full load have no representation in politics, either by socioeconomic class (most representatives are highly privileged) or by ethnic history (non-citizens cannot vote, even if they have permanent residence and pay taxes).
  - aklemm 5y ago
    And the “family values” folks, oddly, are no help.

hutzlibu 5y ago

"a months-long scratchy cough" But isn't that normal at times for a cold season with kids? There are lots of really nasty diseases children can get, where safe vaccinations exist. But most data so far told me with covid I have to worry much more about the social developement of my kids. That was really restricted and that is not good.

jacquesm 5y ago
Not this cough. One of my children has this and he sounds more like his 86 year old uncle than a normal child, and it's been going on for ever, without much in terms of improvement. I really pity him. But I'm coughing just as bad...
- hcknwscommenter 5y ago
  I've not followed this aspect much. Certainly the virus has long since cleared. So, what is going on with the long-term lung involvement? Scarring?
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    I can't speak for my son but for me the trigger seems to be some damage at the back of my throat from the crazy bouts of coughing when I had COVID and now any kind of irritation there will set me off. Very frustrating, especially when you are chairing long meetings.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  I hope you will all recover!
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    We've all recovered from COVID (2nd bout for me :(, apparently both a prior round and vaccine were not enough to stave it off completely but it was only a small fraction as bad as the first one). It's just the cough that remains.

nradov 5y ago

RSV is more dangerous than COVID-19 for most small children. We don't shut down society because of RSV. https://www.medscape.com/answers/971488-177692/what-is-the-prognosis-of-respiratory-syncytial-virus-rsvinfection https://www.medscape.com/answers/971488-177692/what-is-the-p...

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> RSV is more dangerous than COVID-19 for most small children. Children don’t exist in isolation. They’re phenomenally good at spreading every infection to the rest of the household and everywhere else they go. Trying to focus on children's outcomes and ignoring all of the second-order effects is dishonest. Children don’t live alone.
- BTCOG 5y ago
- nradov 5y ago
  The other members of the household are already vaccinated for COVID-19 if they want to be. The vaccines are still highly effective at preventing deaths. RSV isn't really safe for adults either. But we accept the risk.
  - meatsauce 5y ago
    So effective, you go from 98.999% recoverable to 99.998% recoverable. Amazing. So glad we shut down everything and destroyed countless lives for less than 1% of gain.
    - hcknwscommenter 5y ago
      Your numbers are . . . oddly chosen. Nevertheless, consider the following: Calculate (1-(98.99/100)7.753 billion to get 78 million deaths Calculate (1-(99.998/100)7.753 billion to get 155,060 deaths. That seems like really good progress.
    - 5y ago

jsodw 5y ago

jeremyjh 5y ago
Moderna's mRNA vaccine is based on one they tested for SARS-Cov-1 in 2003, and they have done long-term follow-up on those participants. They all turned into alligators after 15 years.
- astn-austin 5y ago
  That's like saying: the crotch rocket is based on internal combustion engines, that have been proven safe in multiple automobiles. So crotch rockets are safe because they use internal combustion engines. MRNA is the platform. You can do good and bad things with the same platform.
  - hcknwscommenter 5y ago
    More like saying, the Ninja 200xcr is a minor update of the Ninja 199xcr, which has been around since 2003 and shown to be safe when properly operated. So, Ninja 200xrc is almost certainly safe too.
- craigkilgo 5y ago
  How do you think we got Killer Croc?
robbrown451 5y ago
And we don't know the long term psychological effects of wearing masks and social distancing. Those may be substantial as well, especially if it goes on for more than 2 years. Long term COVID is known to exist, long term effects of vaccination are not and there is no reason to think they are likely. (me: vaxxed, boosted, happy to boost some more. My 7 year old: vaxxed. My attitude: exactly as described as a "VAD" in the article)
- astrange 5y ago

agensaequivocum 5y ago

My whole family had covid last February including my three young children including one under 1. The children had the mildest symptoms. If you are worried about your children getting covid then I hope you never let near a car as they are much more likely to die in a car crash than covid. If you want to continue locking your self up fine, I don't care. Just don't try to force others to do the same.

jorblumesea 5y ago
But you spread the virus, so it's not just about your own personal experience.
- syshum 5y ago
  Welcome to living in a society, Some how we flipped the script on what freedom means. If you do not accept the risk of coming in contact with things like the Common Cold, Flu, and now COVID, then you need to structure your life to be hermit, not have society bow to your fears
  - rabuse 5y ago
    Exactly. Why should I have to isolate for YOUR fears? YOU should isolate, if you're worried.
    - nathanaldensr 5y ago
      If you haven't already, research the term "safetyism."
    - jorblumesea 5y ago
      You stop people from getting elective surgeries and seriously disrupt society by being out and about eating indoors or not taking proper precautions. This isn't hard to understand. Hospitals are buckling under the weight of cases. Even if you personally recover from it, some do not or the impact of your decisions is far beyond what you personally feel. It's an absurd point and highlights the ignorance around the entire problem. Your personal choices have consequences far outside of whether you personally suffer or end up hospitalized.

40four 5y ago

To be fair, the long term of effects of the vaccines are still very unclear. For adults and children. There are concerning reports regarding serious complications that tend to not get talked about very much in the media I chose to vaccinate myself. I don’t have kids, but I’m not sure it would be a given that I would vaccinate them yet. I think I would want to have a better understanding of the risks. Sorry you’re in that position, I’m sure it’s stressful. After listening to Dr. Robert Malone, I’m beginning to wonder if there aren’t a non-trivial number of physicians against vaccinating kids, who are getting censored. He is adamantly against it. Problem is we can’t even have conversations about it in social media without folks getting censored.

warning26 5y ago
If you're interested in Malone, I definitely recommend reading the Atlantic article about him: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-m... TLDR: he got spurned early on in his career, is bitter about it, and seems to be willing to say just about anything as long as someone will give him some modicum of fame.
- slices 5y ago
  If you're interested in Malone, don't just read that hit piece, written by an author who had previously stuck to woke issues. Wikipedia's not perfect, but his article there would be an improvement.
- hunterb123 5y ago
  Who, the author of that hit piece, or Malone? Ridiculous to try to sum up a scientist's life with a shallow hit piece written by a daft "woke" author. Typical mudslinging strategy to discredit dissenters. I can't believe people actually read trash like The Atlantic at this point.
barbazoo 5y ago
According to [1] Mr Malone said "mRNA vaccine technology I created" which is not true as far as I can find tell. He did work on mRNA technology decades ago but didn't invent mRNA vaccines. He also states that "The first is that a viral gene will be injected into your children's cells. This gene forces your child’s body to make toxic spike proteins.". What does that even mean, a "viral gene"? Toxic spike proteins? Sounds like fear mongering to me given how it's worded. Furthermore he states that "These proteins *often* cause permanent damage in children’s critical organs, including -Their brain and nervous system -Their heart and blood vessels, including blood clots -Their reproductive system, and -This vaccine can trigger fundamental changes to their immune system" There is absolutely no data supporting any of this as far as I can find. Should we trust this person? [1] https://globalcovidsummit.org/news/live-stream-event-physicians-alerting-parents https://globalcovidsummit.org/news/live-stream-event-physici...

oxymoran 5y ago

“ We're still very unclear on the long-term effects of COVID, after all.” Nor do we know the long term effects of the vaccines. What we do know is that children have “statistical immunity” to dying from covid right now. Long term consequences could come from either covid or a vaccine, worry about what you can control. And covid is out of control so stop worrying about it.

astrange 5y ago
Vaccines don't have long term effects.
- artursapek 5y ago
  Tell that to all the poor bastards now living with myocarditis.
  - astrange 5y ago
    That's a short term effect (i.e. we already know about it), and one that actual covid is much more likely to give you. Also, the problem with VAERS reports is the people may just have already had it - that's why side effects for medications sometimes list the original condition as a side effect.
    - mikeyouse 5y ago
      And also, something like 75% of myocarditis resolves completely on its own (and like you mentioned, most myocarditis is caused by viral infection...). Properly risk-weighting all of this is hard, thankfully public health experts have done so and still recommend nearly universal vaccination!
    - TurboHaskal 5y ago
      Keep doing boosters every N months and the risk of myocarditis will eventually be greater than Covid.

taf2 5y ago

If they are not immune compromised you have nothing to worry about. IMO - you should be more worried about the physiological impacts of your changes in behavior around then in regard to your fear… it will have probably longer lasting effects on them.

rhino369 5y ago

You'll drive yourself crazy focusing on every minor risk for children. COVID risk for unvaxed kids is the same as fully vaxed 40 years and much lower than fully vaxed seniors. If you want to do some productive worrying, figure out how to reduce your child's risk of dying in a car crash. That's much more of a risk. >Moderna was supposed to close out a trial in late November but instead expanded it to hundreds of new participants. Why? Unclear. If I had to guess it is probably because you need a large group to prove its effective since so few children get seriously ill. Child mortality is under 0.0002%. You need a huge control group to get any sense of whether the vaccine works at preventing deaths.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
a45a33s 5y ago
lol well they already got rid of the control group at the beginning of the original trials
drewrv 5y ago
> figure out how to reduce your child's risk of dying in a car crash Most parents already do some form of this. Car seats, booster seats, researching crash test data....
- cudgy 5y ago
  And then they buy their kids a motorized scooter or skateboard for their birthday…

robbrown451 5y ago

The daycare / preschool shutdowns, though, are simply because others haven't yet adopted the "vaxxed and done" attitude. So I understand that you still need to be cautious, but you can also advocate for daycares and preschools being less hardcore about it. I'm definitely moving toward being vaxxed and done, but the mom of my (vaxxed) 7 year old (i.e. my ex) is still in the cautious camp. I'm ok with waiting till the end of the surge or the end of the winter to dispense with the masks, but at that point.... yeah this thing needs to end. If you are dumb enough not to get yourself vaccinated and boosted, well, I'm sorry but that's on you.

amelius 5y ago

Let's be clear. More people die of air pollution and climate change than of COVID, but the latter turns out to be a disease that requires immediate care which is why it gets more attention. Before the attitude changes and governments broaden their view, I can understand why people feel "done" with it. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-03-10/air-pollution-kills-far-more-people-than-covid-ever-will https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-03-10/air-po...

rajup 5y ago

Just fyi a cough persisting for a few weeks after an initial infection is nothing new at all (COVID or otherwise). I have suffered a few weeks of persistent cough after a viral/bacterial respiratory infection pre-pandemic and unfortunately am suffering right now with an annoying cough. But it will go away in a couple of weeks.

mostertoaster 5y ago

To each his own? Like you’re free to worry about it, you’re free to be as safety minded as you want, you’re free to treat covid like the Black Death for all I care. Am I free to just not worry about it anymore than I would the flu? (Which is very little, unless I’m going on a trip in like a week then I’m like I ain’t going out for anything) I will pretend like covid is just a common cold until the fearful ask me to do some silly exercise like put my mask on at target so that their minds can be put at ease.

LouisSayers 5y ago

There's research coming out that shows the vaccines are causing heart inflammation (1) in younger people, so I'd show some caution in getting kids vaccinated. I'm not sure how it compares to the effects of covid itself, just something to think about / read up on to make an informed decision. 1) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

zzzeek 5y ago
flagged. the virus itself is much more dangerous in this regard, it's right in the study: > We estimated extra myocarditis events to be between 1 and 10 per million persons in the month following vaccination, which was substantially lower than the 40 extra events per million persons observed following SARS-CoV-2 infection. > Whilst myocarditis can be life-threatening, most vaccine-associated myocarditis events have been mild and self-limiting. The risk observed here is small and confined to the 7-day period following vaccination, whereas the lifetime risk of morbidity and mortality following SARS-CoV-2 infection is substantial.
- sqrt_1 5y ago
  I posted this above - also from the study "Subgroup analyses by age showed that the increased risk of events associated with the two mRNA vaccines was present only in those aged under 40 years." This graph shows it: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0/figures/2 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0/figures/2

coryrc 5y ago

My kid's in day care. He's gotten a dozen diseases since starting. For all we know one was covid. With all this prevention none of these other diseases were stopped so why would anyone think covid could be stopped? It clearly can't.

Ergo19 5y ago
The interventions deployed against COVID had indeed stopped a notable disease - influenza. It is noteworthy that these interventions were designed to fight the flu, apparently because that was the public health playbook at hand. But I agree it is remarkable how interventions which could crush the flu don't seem to bother any number of common cold viruses much at all.

TheMagicHorsey 5y ago

There seems to be very strong data to suggest Covid is a non-issue for children under 5. I think if you are vaxed and boosted, and your older children are vaxed, and you don't live with an unvaxed vulnerable person, you can now safely continue your life activities ... mask if it doesn't inconvenience you.

artursapek 5y ago

> We're still very unclear on the long-term effects of COVID, after all. And even less so the vaccines. When your kids catch COVID they will have mild symptoms for a day or two and bounce back much faster than you or I. And yes it's a "when", not an "if". Vaccinating them against this virus is lunacy. There have been no long term studies on these shots.

mywacaday 5y ago

I wasn't aware that the under 5 trial had failed, we are currently deciding if we will give it to our 6 year old. From a biologial/science perspective can someone here explain why might the vaccine work in a 5 year old and not in a 3/4 year old?

jquery 5y ago

As someone with a kid in daycare, stay close to the science. Young children are at low risk, the primary danger of them getting it is spreading it through the community. My daycare takes reasonable precautions and does contact tracing when a case appears, and follows CDC and professional medical guidelines, and until Omicron they kept Covid out completely. There’s been more cases at the center in the last two weeks than the entire year before that. All I can do is stay current on my vaccines and wear a mask where appropriate. Anyway, keep doing your best. There are those of us who still have empathy for you, even if many want to bully you as some sort of coward for being cautious around a novel virus that’s killed 1 million Americans and disabled countless others.

StanislavPetrov 5y ago

A young child faces far more risk of dying in a car crash on the way to pre-school or Chuck-E-Cheese than they do of covid, but I'll wager you didn't give up driving your kid around. Your child could get struck by lightning, or get bitten by a rabid racoon, but (hopefully) you don't dwell on the risks and live your life paralyzed in fear by them (yes, these risks are the same order of magnitude of a child dying from COVID). The same goes for having your infant or young child injected with experimental vaccines, whose long-term effects are just as unknown and unknowable as COVID.

yucky 5y ago

>Moderna was supposed to close out a trial in late November but instead expanded it to hundreds of new participants. Why? Unclear. Well if you look at all the European countries that are no longer giving Moderna to males under 30, I think you'll have your answer. Don't wait for CNN to tell you why either. Also, scroll through here https://airtable.com/shrbaT4x8LG8EbvVG/tbl7xKsSUIOPAa7Mx https://airtable.com/shrbaT4x8LG8EbvVG/tbl7xKsSUIOPAa7Mx

anm89 5y ago

I understand this sentiment but what is it that you actually want? Reality gets canceled forever because your kids might get a scratchy throat for a few months? So we punish all of society to lower the probability of kids getting a disease which may make them uncomfortable for a while but may do basically nothing to them? Sorry but I'm willing to call that an acceptable risk.

erikerikson 5y ago

I sympathize. Our kid is in the next window (5-12) and it has been a grand relief to get him vaccinated but when everyone was excited that they were vaccinated we felt very left behind. We continue to be responsible with our behavior but we also have been relaxing and carefully opening up. You are not forgotten and lots of us still care. Hang on and best of luck!

gremlinsinc 5y ago

I've got a 3 and 4 year old... I'm vaxxed and done (until booster time)... 4 yr old is ASD spectrum, can't really keep him out of school he needs to learn socialization skills, etc... 3yr old is way advanced verbally and starts preschool as soon as we can get him in. I've kinda given up on worry, because there's really no way it hasn't already come around us. Maybe during allergy season in the fall when we all were sick'ish. Or maybe some fluke it hasn't - but my county has 42% vax rate, so doubt it (Utah). I just can't mentally focus on it anymore (anxiety kills too), and statistically we're better off than before the boosters.... so in my brain it's over...for us. We probably should go back to masking up, and have thought about it. Really can't get myself motivated to even decide if it's worth it... I have ADHD and my exec/function motivation is suffering bad lately from the stress. I think people are literally idiots who aren't vaxxed, and I wouldn't be so cavalier if we weren't...my biggest fears were not so much my kids getting sick but my kids growing up orphaned by Covid. They already lost a grandma (Cancer+lack of decent availability to treatment during covid). If my wife and I passed in our sleep, I can't imagine what would happen to the boys all by themselves until someone checks in on them... I'm glad that fear is mostly off the table (I mean -- death is always lurking....but not like before).

cat_plus_plus 5y ago

I also don't want anyone in my family to get COVID, vaccinated or not. But my wishes are irrelevant when our suburb's school district got 600+ cases 4 days. We will all get exposed in a few weeks unless we live like hermits. And if we do, we will get exposed within a few weeks of coming out of bubblewrap. New vaccines are not going to be approved in time to protect anyone. So instead of agonizing about the inevitable, we just live our lives and focus on all the other ways we can improve our health and safety. We had months long scratchy cough from swine flu before, didn't stop traveling because of that, will not stop now.

complexmango 5y ago

Are you also going to prohibit your kids from riding in a car because the chances of a traffic accident are non zero? Asking because kids 1-4 are being hospitalized for COVID at the rate of 1.6/100,000, deaths are at 2/1,000,000 and traffic accident mortality is 11/100,000. https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/covid-risks-for-small-children https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/covid-risks-for-small-chil... https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state...

caffeine 5y ago

> if there's a case in the class we've got to keep our kids at home for a week The answer to that might be to just all agree not to do this any more. Vaccine or not, the policy of shutting down a whole class if anyone has a case of CoVID is just silly for preschool aged kids. A more cynical view: There is already a known safe and effective way to develop antibodies in children to stop transmitting CoVID, and that's ... letting them get CoVID! So actually if a child in the class gets CoVID, maybe they should be required to sing to the whole class in a small room for a week.