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Not very surprised. An Indian expat living in NL, with parents living back home in India. My (retired, old) parents are afraid to get tested for COVID because

Not very surprised. An Indian expat living in NL, with parents living back home in India. My (retired, old) parents are afraid to get tested for COVID because they hear way too many incidents from their neighbourhood about “hospitals faking COVID test results just so that they can admit them for 4 days, administer expensive drugs, charge them some hefty bill, and send home”. As stupid as it sounds, I could not force my parents to go and wait in the line to get COVID test, after he says “I believe I don’t have COVID now. But if I go to the testing center that is so badly managed and understaffed where only people with obvious high level of COVID are brought to get official result, I will get COVID there!”. Say what you will, but if the basic trust in doctors and healthcare is lost, how would people get tested, and how can you trust any statistics from there?! I’m ashamed, stupefied and angry at the same time.

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alkonaut 5y ago
> hospitals faking COVID test results just so that they can admit them for 4 days, administer expensive drugs, charge them some hefty bill, and send home Why would hospitals admit someone who isn't actually in need of care? If you need hospital care for Covid, it's (almost exclusively) because you need supplemental oxygen, and that's something that's pretty hard to fake. Edit: the question is: how are these hospitalizations actually done practically. Are doctors faking diagnoses (e.g. hypoxia), convincing patients they need care, which they are persuaded to accept? Or are patients forcibly admitted without being asked?
- junon 5y ago
  > Why would hospitals admit someone who isn't actually in need of care? In places without socialized medical coverage and low levels of ethical integrity (unfortunately, too many places in the world - especially impoverished states), the answer is "money".
  - alkonaut 5y ago
    Yes perhaps the question was unclearly posed, I mean - how do people allow themselves to be admitted to expensive care without being in need of it? Are doctors "persuading" patients that they need care, and the problem is lack of information about what rights you have to actually refuse, or information about what the symptoms would be etc?
    - junon 5y ago
      Yep that's usually what happens. Not everyone has the same access to basic medical information and rely solely on the doctor's word. That is how many people fall into cult-like or religious "medicine" or end up spending way too much on otherwise farsical treatment.
  - refurb 5y ago
    Why would socialized medicine exclude this behavior? Medicare fraud in the US is in the billions.
    - krageon 5y ago
      The US does not have socialised medicine.
      - rm_-rf_slash 5y ago
        I believe parent referred to Medicare as a subset in American health care that is socialized, to some degree.
        krageon 5y ago
        I guess I am mostly alone in thinking that for a system to be socialised, it has to apply to everyone or almost everyone in a country equally. From the comments and the voting, I understand that having it apply to "almost" half the population is already socialised to this time slot :)
- reacharavindh 5y ago
  Blunt answer : Money, greed, short term thinking and lack of ethics. How? Doctors turn into actors and cheat the public. Anecdotally, my relatives say they were never treated for COVID, but told that they needed admission because they have high risks(diabetes, respiratory troubles, high blood pressure) and need to be monitored in order to make sure COVID is treated early. After 4 days of a battery of tests(non COVID related), they are sent home saying they escaped the wrath of COVID because they were lucky. I don’t know what to say.
  - alkonaut 5y ago
    This is why I'd never want to visit any doctor whose paycheck is affected by the treatment he gives (or doesn't). A doctor who has even a small kickback on prescriptions from a pharmaceutical company is completely out of the question in my book at least.
- Alterlife 5y ago
  As an Indian living in India, I've heard some of these stories: a. They are asked to get admitted "for observation because they are at high risk". If they ask to leave, the doctors ask them to sign a very scary sounding wavier disclaiming the hospital of responsibility for their death. b. There apparently this one lab that will return a positive covid test if the docs ask them to and they get a cut of what the patient pays. It needs to be said that I don't know if any of these are true.
johnchristopher 5y ago
> Say what you will, but if the basic trust in doctors and healthcare is lost, how would people get tested, and how can you trust any statistics from there?! To me this is a huge problem: some doctors are gaming the system and providing fake covid certificates or vaccination stamps. What else could doctors be hiding from me in other situations ? My mom said it was a war crime to deliver fake covid vaccination stamps (I can see how a doctor doing that would see himself as a resistant so good luck having a healthy debate about that). It breaks something fundamental. In a way I hope most of them did it for the money rather than out of anti-vax/anti-system. On a related note I was stuck for three days in a house during this summer's flood (floor level flooded, second okay, I stayed at the third) . I had food, water and was okay. At some point I could have left the house to be relocated in a roofed sport centre or a school with other people but I decided against it in fear of getting covid in a crowded space. It was before omicron. Maybe I overreacted but I didn't want to take any risks.
- thematrixturtle 5y ago
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  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    > If vaccination does not meaningfully prevent transmission, as increasingly seems to be case with Omicron, faking vaccination harms only the fake recipient. keyword being if and meaningfully. Anyway that fake recipient may still need top notch expensive care to stay alive if he doesn't get mild covid. Are you suggesting that he should pay in full for those care since you state it only harms the fake recipient ? Also, it increasingly seems that a third dose significantly increases protection against omicron.
    - thematrixturtle 5y ago
      Yes, I think that would be an excellent idea, and quite a few countries are in fact moving in that direction. Early evidence is that the protection against transmission from the booster appears to be quite fleeting (weeks, not months), so the main reason to vaccinate is really to protect yourself.
hiyer 5y ago
In my apartment complex in India, we have ~300 apartments and ~1000 residents. There have been over 70 cases of Covid here since the beginning of last year (including 15 as I type this) and only one of them was hospitalized - a 3 year old boy. All the others were quarantined and recovered at home. I don't know where your parents live, but what I've seen in Delhi, Bangalore and Chennai (I don't have first/second-hand knowledge of other places) is that hospitals refuse to admit you unless you absolutely need to be admitted. Edit - just to add, the kid mentioned above also recovered, but he was hospitalized for a couple of days with very high fever.
- maccard 5y ago
  OPs point was that it doesn't matter what the hospitals are actually doing, if people don't trust them.
  - hiyer 5y ago
    True, but what I'm saying is there's no reason to mistrust the hospitals as I've not seen the alleged behaviour at all. Add to that the fact that you don't even need to go to a hospital to get yourself tested in the first place - in most cities you can get it done by a professional at home (though it's possible OP's parents live in a rural area where this facility is not available).
    - maccard 5y ago
      > True, but what I'm saying is there's no reason to mistrust the hospital That doesn't matter _if people don't trust the hospitals_. Whether or not there's a reason for it is insignificant. > as I've not seen the alleged behaviour at all As an aside, one anecdote doesn't mean that there's no reason to mistrust the hospital. I have elderly relatives in care homes, and I've not seen them abused. That doesn't mean there's not a problem with abuse in care homes here in the UK
      - geodel 5y ago
        Exactly right!. Some people take their own example from a privileged position and claim that everyone can get same treatment/service.
ftzay 5y ago
Your parents are smart. Hospitals are a prime spreading location and testing centers are often crowded. Also, an overworked nurse may make mistakes in testing centers and slip up on hygiene rules. The situation is similar in Europe, actually. Including loss of trust.
- 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
  Everyone talks so much shit on USA car culture but our testing centers are typically a drive thru where patients are isolated in their cars thereby protecting everyone. Patients swab themselves and then hand the sample over through a few inch opening in the window.
  - Avalaxy 5y ago
    So many downsides to that.. how do you get tested if you dont have a car? How do you drive a car when you are very sick? How do you make sure properly do the test on themselves? Sorry, but I dont find this a good argument in favor of a car-culture at all.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      It's not a theoretical harm, either. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-07-07/op-ed-drive-through-walk-up-covid-19-coronavirus-testing-sites https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-07-07/op-ed-drive... > For each walk-up site, we looked at how many people live within a mile radius and could conceivably walk to the site. You don’t need to look at a map to know that too many people and places are left behind. If you don’t have a car but live in South Los Angeles, chances are you can find a nearby walk-up test site. But if you’re carless in East L.A., there is not a single walk-up option in your community. The entire San Fernando Valley — with a population of almost 2 million — received its first and only walk-up site, in Arleta, in late June. https://www.businessinsider.com/new-yorkers-without-a-car-are-turned-away-at-drive-thru-testing-sites-2020-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/new-yorkers-without-a-car-ar... > After trekking nearly two hours on public transit to get to the testing site in Flatbush, a neighborhood in New York's Brooklyn borough, the 30-year-old taproom manager was surprised to discover a line of cars snaking around the address instead of a line of people. McGrath, who does not own a car, approached a state trooper at the testing site to confirm his suspicions that a vehicle was required to be tested. > "I walk up to one of the state troopers and he says, 'You can't walk in, you have to have a car,'" McGrath told Business Insider, adding that it appeared as though he was not the first New Yorker to arrive at the testing site on foot.
saimiam 5y ago
Does their city have at home testing where someone comes home to collect samples and results are emailed to the patient?
nsonha 5y ago
this question will appear insulting but do you think there is a cultural reason why there is so much scamming in India or by Indians? I've read many hackernews posts on Indian swe candidate lying on the take home test or CV. 100% of the phone scammers I encountered here in Australia have a South Asian accent. I am from a developing country myself and do understand that this kind of thing happens when a big part of a country is low on the Maslow's hierarchy, but India seems to get it worse somehow?
- thematrixturtle 5y ago
  India is by far the largest poor country by population, it's reasonably advanced technically, and English is widely spoken. It's no coincidence that the other country we often associate with scams, Nigeria, is also large and has many English speakers. There are plenty of scams in (say) China as well, they just target Chinese speakers.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    I get a ton of Chinese language scam robocalls in the US, they're just not specifically memorable because I don't speak Chinese.
- tempuser12121 5y ago
  I know few companies in India who for some amount would write essay, thesis for students. A large number of them are from US. These companies make very good money from them. Yeah everybody cheats, maybe westerns are very good at hiding it.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  > this question will appear insulting but do you think there is a cultural reason why there is so much scamming in India or by Indians? I've read many hackernews posts on Indian swe candidate lying on the take home test or CV. 100% of the phone scammers I encountered here in Australia have a South Asian accent. It's not "cultural", e.g. here in Germany we have a huge problem with phone fraud originating in Turkey [1]. The reason why scams are so common for "foreign" countries is relatively simple: fraudsters need people speaking the language pretty well, but do not want attention from domestic law enforcement... meaning you need a remote country with a shoddy/easily bribable law enforcement, speaking the same language as the "target" country, a huge supply of desperate, poor people willing to turn to crime for money and easy ways to transfer money from the target country to the source country and back to wherever the ringleaders are. For English-speaking countries, the biggest country where these conditions meet is India and the Philippines (and historically, Nigeria), for German-speaking countries it's Turkey (with historically close migration links from the post-WW2 "Gastarbeiter" era). [1]: https://www.bka.de/DE/UnsereAufgaben/Deliktsbereiche/BetruegerischeGewinnversprechen/callCenterBetrug.html https://www.bka.de/DE/UnsereAufgaben/Deliktsbereiche/Betrueg...
nelblu 5y ago
Another anecdote: In my home town, a doctor took the government funding to open a covid centre. She then only admitted patients that were mild cases and had chances of survival, for those who had little chance of surviving she would not admit them and send them home. One might think that maybe she was being smart in triaging the patients, but I know her personally and her only motive was money.... Because relatives are less likely to pay for a dead patient than they are for someone who came home alive. Extremely shameful but not surprising.
- laxmin 5y ago
  Can you please share the name of that Centre? I would love to investigate. Thanks.
laxmin 5y ago
I am a physician and my contribution to this conversation might not be appreciated, but here it goes. I work at a medical university with two medical colleges and a wide healthcare system and we were involved in the clinical trials for Covaxin (India's indigenous vaccine) as we as Covid care and immunisation. As a foot soldier, I am tired of fighting stories such as yours that raise doubt on statistics with anecdotes. The statistics maybe flawed, but we need some scientific rigour in decrying them. Not 'my parents said' stories. The anecdote about faking covid test results is plainly wrong. There is a mechanism for registering every PCR-RT test that is done along with the Aadhaar Unique Identity Number. The results need to be validated at different levels. These have been digitised. You can access your parents records online and verify and validate them too. All this is available on your mobile apps. The digitisation and workflow management make faking the results very difficult if not impossible. Hospitals are specially licensed to treat Covid. Not all hospitals can admit covid patients. It is not like every small clinic or hospital at the corner can simply admit patients. The total bill for ANY COVID RELATED ADMISSIONS are capped. The test fees are capped. There simply is not much incentive to fake results when the fees cannot be charged on whim. Of course, common people like your parents are fed misinformation by the social media (anti-vaxxers movement in the US) and a lot of fear about corporate profiting, big pharma, etc are the usual trope. Big pharma sure profits, but they profit most off such staple as baby powder and insulin. Their profits, data of efficiency on vaccines etc are under glare of scientific scrutiny, while their pain killers and opioids are where they don't get any investigation. The death rates on the other hand in India are under reported and there is a huge backlog that is being cleared right now. You may not believe it, but India's response to the pandemic has been nothing less than fantastic, given the sorry affairs of its health infrastructure. The mechanisms at every level worked satisfactorily. Were they miraculous? no. Efficient given the resources? Yep. It could have been worse. Far far worse. Edit. Oh I forgot to add... our hospitals lost a lot of money and our entire budget. We had to borrow to keep things running and are in the red for the next few years. So all this 'profiteering'... try running a hospital. Edit 2: The local administration commandeered our hospitals to set up Covid wards. Admissions were made electronically for hospital based observational wards. Food and medicines were made free for all the admitted patients. Also, Oxygen. Did I tell about the overtime payments to doctors, nurses and paramedical staff? All from the hospital funds. Patients paid nothing. Thats right. Nothing. Not a cent.
metb 5y ago
As a caring child of old parents, you should get your parents to NL where you can provide the best possible care for them, instead of letting them die in a place where they can't even get a COVID test done.
- MandieD 5y ago
  If OP’s parents are anything like my dad, they have zero interest in trading their warm homeland with its familiar language and culture for cold northern Europe. My dad would rather die in Texas than live in Germany, much as he enjoyed spending a week here this summer meeting his grandson. Older people have attachments other than their grown-up children.
  - reacharavindh 5y ago
    This. My parents have zero interest in spending their older years in a region that doesn’t speak the language they know, colder, and has simply a different way of life than theirs not to mention their social circle. I wholeheartedly agree with their choice, and will do my best to help them where they are.
    - rjv8 5y ago
      When millions are dying around them helplessly for want of good care, it seems cruel to let them fend for themselves in their old age, where they are scared to consult a doctor. If they are not willing to come to you, shouldn't you visit, and take care of them in these difficult times?
      - nonamechicken 5y ago
        I have been also wondering about this. My impression is that Tamil Nadu is much better in terms of health care compared to many Indian states. So, its strange that the parents are refusing to get tested. I am thinking that the parents are afraid to take public transport, and they don't want to burden their NRI son/daughter, so are making up excuses.
keewee7 5y ago
The anglophile Indian elite is surprisingly ignorant of what is going on in their own country. The anglophile Indian elite also controls many aspects of the country. This out-of-touch anglophile elite is the reason India is so dysfunctional, even more than other poor developing countries.
- api 5y ago
  That's interesting because for a long time there's been this right-wing narrative about how "India benefited from British colonization." I suppose the British did introduce some technology and civic systems, but they also probably fractured the society and created a new kind of caste system. How much of today's seeming culture of corruption in India is a legacy of colonialism vs. how much was there already? I'm asking because I'm only looking from a distance. Also makes me wonder if the Chinese cultural revolution, while a disastrous failure on very many levels, might have erased a lot of the legacy of past colonialism... for the same reason that a gigantic natural disaster might lead to shiny new infrastructure after everything gets rebuilt.
- pratik661 5y ago
  This is an empirically accurate assessment. The priorities of the Anglophone elite (which dominate the IAS and other parts of the admin) are divorced from the priorities of the rest of the country. This manifests in issues akin to what they call “structural racism “ in the US. Ie: budgeting priorities; India over budgets IITs and other elite institutions over other colleges and primary education. This results in a system with excellent top universities, but a steep drop in educational quality in tier 2 institutions (and very low educational outcomes in public primary and secondary schools). The government also focuses on agricultural price stability over farm income (ie banning agricultural exports during high prices). One can argue that the popularity of Modi and the other regional satraps (with language based sub nationalism) is a result of this institutional bias. Imagine how you would vote if you couldn’t participate in the economy of your hometown because all the street signs/store names were in a language you couldn’t read.
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
agumonkey 5y ago
It's not as bad but it's not too different from other countries. Trust has evaporated in France, it didn't devolve into full on medical scam like what you describe, but the feeling is the same. People don't trust doctors or nurses and can't go willingly there (hence the limited vaccination rate).
- sofixa 5y ago
  > hence the limited vaccination rate). Of checks notes 73% of all eligible ( 5 years or older, all doses required ( booster included), and it was 12 years or older until yesterday, so there's a huge drop since then). Many were forced by restrictions on everyday life, but still, that's certainly not "limited".
nonamechicken 5y ago
If they are worried about hospitals, please request them to go to any of the independent labs that does covid tests. These labs are not connected to hospitals, they get paid only for the test, so doesn't matter to them whether the patient is positive or not. Many in my family did that. Also, when one of my family members got positive during the first peak, they went to a local government hospital (small town). They got really great care (including 4-5 doses of some injection worth ~10000 Rs per dose if I remember correctly, free food etc), and paid absolutely nothing.
blocked_again 5y ago
India compromises of 28 states. And all most all of them have a population bigger than New Zeland and some of them even have populations bigger than Brazil. Stop over generalizing your experiences with one state in India with entire India. What one experiences in Bihar or UP would be completely different from what one experience in Kerala or Goa for example. Be specific when talking about your experience in India.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  *is comprised of e: Muphry’s Law got me. Comprises or is composed of is fine.
  - blocked_again 5y ago
    The point of language is to communicate. As long as you understand what the person is saying it's good enough. Once you start cherry picking on the syntax itself you are missing the actual point of why the language was invented in the first place.
    - spiffistan 5y ago
      Not when what you write (compromises) literally mean something radically different. That’s not syntax.
      - blocked_again 5y ago
        You still understand the context right. What's the point of cherry-picking then?
        programmer_dude 5y ago
        I don't think you understand what cherry-picking means. Also syntax, grammar and pronunciation are important. Understanding the context is not enough.
2-718-281-828 5y ago
- Sander_Marechal 5y ago
  Source? Because that sounds like a whole bunch of conspiracy theories packed together.
  - 2-718-281-828 5y ago
    source for what? you're welcome to use google btw. might save us some time.
    - maaanu 5y ago
      One can make any statement and if the "opposition" wants to see some proof you just deflect it and require them to bring proof that your statement is incorrect? That sounds incredible one-sided.
      - 2-718-281-828 5y ago
        i'm asking for what do you want a proof ...
  - tloup 5y ago
    It's because it is. The money they get from intubating and all care required covers the cost and makes a little profit, but there is no reason at all why they would do that to a person that doesn't need it. It takes a heavy toll on the doctors and nurses too. If a hospital director would run rampant and tell docs to willy nilly intubate someone it would be all over the news and doctors wouldn't agree to it either (they are in very short supply in Germany and wouldn't bother putting their reputation on the line). You also have to be aware that around 25% of all Germans are in one way or another prone to believe in conspiracy theories, e.g. great reset and so on. Sadly I only have a German source on this, but this was a major point of discussion in the long running "Mitte Studie" which is one of the best and most rigorous studies about Germans and their political beliefs.
slowhand09 5y ago
The [US]CDC director just said over 75% of “covid deaths” occurred in people with at least four comorbidities. Since the US administration can’t shut down covid, suddenly all this data is getting shared publicly.
- wumpus 5y ago
  The whole point of studying excess deaths is to figure out covid's contribution over and above the usual number of deaths due to these pretty common conditions (like high blood pressure.)
sabujp 5y ago
my in laws ordered a covid test, paid via paytm, the person came and took the sample, took the money and never returned results.
- programmer_dude 5y ago
  Did you order a Thyrocare test by any chance?
  - sabujp 5y ago
    no, it was not a thyrocare, might have been a local contractor working for apollo. However, my mom went recently and for the return booked an at home travel test collection through https://www.metropolisindia.com/covid-19-test https://www.metropolisindia.com/covid-19-test and was able to get an rt-pcr result in less than 24 hrs.
triceratops 5y ago
If your parents don't have symptoms, or have manageable symptoms and are self-isolating, why bother testing? As long as they're fully vaccinated they've done their absolute best in this situation.
- kenjackson 5y ago
  I think the self-isolation part is key. If they're doing that as if they have Covid then I agree with you. And honestly, I think the commenters parents have a fair point about being in line with other likely Covid infected people.
- nradov 5y ago
  There are additional outpatient therapies that can be medically indicated depending on symptoms, risk factors, and locally approved care protocols. Most physicians will only prescribe those therapies based on a positive PCR test. Some of those therapies include monoclonal antibodies (less effective now with the Omicron variant) or a brief course of fluvoxamine. But for vaccinated patients with mild symptoms and no major risk factors, staying home and avoiding public testing sites is a reasonable approach.
andreygrehov 5y ago
Another anecdote from the US (New York). A friend of mine works as a cop. One day someone got shot and he had to help get the victim to a hospital. The victim was bleeding blood and eventually died in that hospital. A few hours later, the hospital provided the cause of death as COVID, because they found out that the victim had the virus ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
aluksi 5y ago
So much for the self-righteous angst. As an Indian 'expat', what did you do to help? What is it about it that is so surprising. It's obvious that being a low income country, the health care is not the best, but compared to the rest of the world they are doing alright.
- reacharavindh 5y ago
  I hope you feel better that you called out on the righteousness of someone who highlights a problem. How dare someone speak of a problem when you can happily live in an ignorant world where everybody always speaks of how good things are. In the interest of a civil discourse. I will say that I did mean that I am not surprised by the fact that the stats are not correct because I am aware of the ground reality from my anecdotal sources that point in the same direction. Not that my country does or doesn’t do anything. The first step to solving a problem is recognising that it exists, and not wish washing it away. As an Indian, I’m sad that you’re not angry.
- srean 5y ago
  > being a low income country, the health care is not the best The Indian state of Kerala would like to differ. States and leadership that are more keen on disrupting the social fabric, polarize it to gain votes, sure that would divert resources into such harmful instruments. The consequences were well observed as dead bodies by the thousands buried on river sand bars or floating down the water, with government officials working to conceal the evidence by removing religious commemorative markings left on the sand graves.
  - nonamechicken 5y ago
    > The Indian state of Kerala would like to differ. Kerala chief minister who is a communist is coming to US for health care next week. https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/kerala-chief-minister-pinarayi-vijayan-heads-to-usa-1896827-2022-01-06 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/kerala-chief-minister-...
victor106 5y ago
Most Hospitals in India are a really big scam. Many of my colleagues got sick in Hyderabad and from what I hear the hospitals directly sell drugs in black. Three of them got admitted to yashodahospitals (https://www.yashodahospitals.com/ https://www.yashodahospitals.com/) and all three of them had to pay 5x the price for Remdesivir. The worst part is this was sold to them by the hospital management. Also, in India, when a doctor refers you to a diagnostic center for a lab test, the diagnostic center pays the doctor money in the form of a kickback. It’s pathetic. I live in the US and the healthcare situation is bad but not as bad as in India. You would never want to get sick in India and visit a hospital there.
OJFord 5y ago
> As stupid as it sounds, I could not force my parents to go and wait in the line to get COVID test, after he says “I believe I don’t have COVID now. But if I go to the testing center that is so badly managed and understaffed where only people with obvious high level of COVID are brought to get official result, I will get COVID there!”. May I ask why you wanted them to? Honestly his response sounds rational to me.
- javajosh 5y ago
  It does sound rational, but incomplete. The missing piece is the one where he searches for (and hopefully finds) an alternative where he can get tested without increasing risk of infection. For example, tracking down an at-home test (he could have used one of the 1M+ tests that Florida recently allowed to expire).
  - deleted 5y ago
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- reacharavindh 5y ago
  My parents visited my sister for 2 days. They traveled by a private car, but must have stopped for food along the way. After they have been back, both of them experienced fatigue and cold symptoms. As much as it is normal for them to experience after a trip, I wanted them to rule out COVID early. I have heard that early diagnosis and treatment for COVID at their age can be a life saving difference. If I experienced the same symptoms here in NL, I’d have also taken a test myself just to be sure that I am not spreading it around. His decision is rational after he explained the reason to me. However, I wish that reason doesn’t exist and that people can get tested without such concerns.
instagraham 5y ago
As an Indian, I can tell you that every single family I know has lost someone to COVID. But this part of India wasn't as torn apart as the cities like Delhi or Bangalore. Or like rural India, whose death toll we never counted. Both sides of the ideological split here were arguing over the stats until the Ganges swelled up with bodies. But even then, the right continues to deny the extent of death.
dathinab 5y ago
Are home/self tests an option? I mean if it's just about knowing it yourself so that you can get yourself PCR tested when you known you likely have it (and as such might soon need medical support). That seems like a valid option for me, though only if available and hospitalized reasonable priced. For be the difference between self-tests rapid tests and test station rapid tests seem to mainly be: - if you have self-test - if you can afford it (test station rapid tests are up to some limit payed by health care, in my case) - if you need the digital certificate that you did a tests (some places require vaccination + test) - self-test produce more wast through additional packaging, non-reusable plastic tubes etc.
complexmango 5y ago
I’m from India, and have plenty of family and friends there in close contact, and I have literally never heard of anything as ridiculous as this yet. No idea why this is a top voted comment.
rramadass 5y ago
Why is this upvoted? This is just "fearmongering" BS. The parent is generalizing from his Parents response who it seems belong to the irrational "don't get the vaccine" crowd. They are reflecting their own prejudices onto the Doctors/Nurses/Health Service Infrastructure who have done a fantastic job amidst trying circumstances.
- nonamechicken 5y ago
  I think many users from Reddit's /r/india are here. I recognized one user name. After turning /r/india to pretty much anti India, they are doing the same here. And that means I need to leave HN too to stay away from the negativity, just like I had to do with /r/India.

deleted 5y ago

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alkonaut 5y ago

> hospitals faking COVID test results just so that they can admit them for 4 days, administer expensive drugs, charge them some hefty bill, and send home Why would hospitals admit someone who isn't actually in need of care? If you need hospital care for Covid, it's (almost exclusively) because you need supplemental oxygen, and that's something that's pretty hard to fake. Edit: the question is: how are these hospitalizations actually done practically. Are doctors faking diagnoses (e.g. hypoxia), convincing patients they need care, which they are persuaded to accept? Or are patients forcibly admitted without being asked?

junon 5y ago
> Why would hospitals admit someone who isn't actually in need of care? In places without socialized medical coverage and low levels of ethical integrity (unfortunately, too many places in the world - especially impoverished states), the answer is "money".
- alkonaut 5y ago
  Yes perhaps the question was unclearly posed, I mean - how do people allow themselves to be admitted to expensive care without being in need of it? Are doctors "persuading" patients that they need care, and the problem is lack of information about what rights you have to actually refuse, or information about what the symptoms would be etc?
  - junon 5y ago
    Yep that's usually what happens. Not everyone has the same access to basic medical information and rely solely on the doctor's word. That is how many people fall into cult-like or religious "medicine" or end up spending way too much on otherwise farsical treatment.
- refurb 5y ago
  Why would socialized medicine exclude this behavior? Medicare fraud in the US is in the billions.
  - krageon 5y ago
    The US does not have socialised medicine.
    - rm_-rf_slash 5y ago
      I believe parent referred to Medicare as a subset in American health care that is socialized, to some degree.
      - krageon 5y ago
        I guess I am mostly alone in thinking that for a system to be socialised, it has to apply to everyone or almost everyone in a country equally. From the comments and the voting, I understand that having it apply to "almost" half the population is already socialised to this time slot :)
reacharavindh 5y ago
Blunt answer : Money, greed, short term thinking and lack of ethics. How? Doctors turn into actors and cheat the public. Anecdotally, my relatives say they were never treated for COVID, but told that they needed admission because they have high risks(diabetes, respiratory troubles, high blood pressure) and need to be monitored in order to make sure COVID is treated early. After 4 days of a battery of tests(non COVID related), they are sent home saying they escaped the wrath of COVID because they were lucky. I don’t know what to say.
- alkonaut 5y ago
  This is why I'd never want to visit any doctor whose paycheck is affected by the treatment he gives (or doesn't). A doctor who has even a small kickback on prescriptions from a pharmaceutical company is completely out of the question in my book at least.
Alterlife 5y ago
As an Indian living in India, I've heard some of these stories: a. They are asked to get admitted "for observation because they are at high risk". If they ask to leave, the doctors ask them to sign a very scary sounding wavier disclaiming the hospital of responsibility for their death. b. There apparently this one lab that will return a positive covid test if the docs ask them to and they get a cut of what the patient pays. It needs to be said that I don't know if any of these are true.

johnchristopher 5y ago

> Say what you will, but if the basic trust in doctors and healthcare is lost, how would people get tested, and how can you trust any statistics from there?! To me this is a huge problem: some doctors are gaming the system and providing fake covid certificates or vaccination stamps. What else could doctors be hiding from me in other situations ? My mom said it was a war crime to deliver fake covid vaccination stamps (I can see how a doctor doing that would see himself as a resistant so good luck having a healthy debate about that). It breaks something fundamental. In a way I hope most of them did it for the money rather than out of anti-vax/anti-system. On a related note I was stuck for three days in a house during this summer's flood (floor level flooded, second okay, I stayed at the third) . I had food, water and was okay. At some point I could have left the house to be relocated in a roofed sport centre or a school with other people but I decided against it in fear of getting covid in a crowded space. It was before omicron. Maybe I overreacted but I didn't want to take any risks.

thematrixturtle 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  > If vaccination does not meaningfully prevent transmission, as increasingly seems to be case with Omicron, faking vaccination harms only the fake recipient. keyword being if and meaningfully. Anyway that fake recipient may still need top notch expensive care to stay alive if he doesn't get mild covid. Are you suggesting that he should pay in full for those care since you state it only harms the fake recipient ? Also, it increasingly seems that a third dose significantly increases protection against omicron.
  - thematrixturtle 5y ago
    Yes, I think that would be an excellent idea, and quite a few countries are in fact moving in that direction. Early evidence is that the protection against transmission from the booster appears to be quite fleeting (weeks, not months), so the main reason to vaccinate is really to protect yourself.

hiyer 5y ago

In my apartment complex in India, we have ~300 apartments and ~1000 residents. There have been over 70 cases of Covid here since the beginning of last year (including 15 as I type this) and only one of them was hospitalized - a 3 year old boy. All the others were quarantined and recovered at home. I don't know where your parents live, but what I've seen in Delhi, Bangalore and Chennai (I don't have first/second-hand knowledge of other places) is that hospitals refuse to admit you unless you absolutely need to be admitted. Edit - just to add, the kid mentioned above also recovered, but he was hospitalized for a couple of days with very high fever.

maccard 5y ago
OPs point was that it doesn't matter what the hospitals are actually doing, if people don't trust them.
- hiyer 5y ago
  True, but what I'm saying is there's no reason to mistrust the hospitals as I've not seen the alleged behaviour at all. Add to that the fact that you don't even need to go to a hospital to get yourself tested in the first place - in most cities you can get it done by a professional at home (though it's possible OP's parents live in a rural area where this facility is not available).
  - maccard 5y ago
    > True, but what I'm saying is there's no reason to mistrust the hospital That doesn't matter _if people don't trust the hospitals_. Whether or not there's a reason for it is insignificant. > as I've not seen the alleged behaviour at all As an aside, one anecdote doesn't mean that there's no reason to mistrust the hospital. I have elderly relatives in care homes, and I've not seen them abused. That doesn't mean there's not a problem with abuse in care homes here in the UK
    - geodel 5y ago
      Exactly right!. Some people take their own example from a privileged position and claim that everyone can get same treatment/service.

ftzay 5y ago

Your parents are smart. Hospitals are a prime spreading location and testing centers are often crowded. Also, an overworked nurse may make mistakes in testing centers and slip up on hygiene rules. The situation is similar in Europe, actually. Including loss of trust.

0x0nyandesu 5y ago
Everyone talks so much shit on USA car culture but our testing centers are typically a drive thru where patients are isolated in their cars thereby protecting everyone. Patients swab themselves and then hand the sample over through a few inch opening in the window.
- Avalaxy 5y ago
  So many downsides to that.. how do you get tested if you dont have a car? How do you drive a car when you are very sick? How do you make sure properly do the test on themselves? Sorry, but I dont find this a good argument in favor of a car-culture at all.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    It's not a theoretical harm, either. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-07-07/op-ed-drive-through-walk-up-covid-19-coronavirus-testing-sites https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-07-07/op-ed-drive... > For each walk-up site, we looked at how many people live within a mile radius and could conceivably walk to the site. You don’t need to look at a map to know that too many people and places are left behind. If you don’t have a car but live in South Los Angeles, chances are you can find a nearby walk-up test site. But if you’re carless in East L.A., there is not a single walk-up option in your community. The entire San Fernando Valley — with a population of almost 2 million — received its first and only walk-up site, in Arleta, in late June. https://www.businessinsider.com/new-yorkers-without-a-car-are-turned-away-at-drive-thru-testing-sites-2020-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/new-yorkers-without-a-car-ar... > After trekking nearly two hours on public transit to get to the testing site in Flatbush, a neighborhood in New York's Brooklyn borough, the 30-year-old taproom manager was surprised to discover a line of cars snaking around the address instead of a line of people. McGrath, who does not own a car, approached a state trooper at the testing site to confirm his suspicions that a vehicle was required to be tested. > "I walk up to one of the state troopers and he says, 'You can't walk in, you have to have a car,'" McGrath told Business Insider, adding that it appeared as though he was not the first New Yorker to arrive at the testing site on foot.

saimiam 5y ago

Does their city have at home testing where someone comes home to collect samples and results are emailed to the patient?

nsonha 5y ago

this question will appear insulting but do you think there is a cultural reason why there is so much scamming in India or by Indians? I've read many hackernews posts on Indian swe candidate lying on the take home test or CV. 100% of the phone scammers I encountered here in Australia have a South Asian accent. I am from a developing country myself and do understand that this kind of thing happens when a big part of a country is low on the Maslow's hierarchy, but India seems to get it worse somehow?

thematrixturtle 5y ago
India is by far the largest poor country by population, it's reasonably advanced technically, and English is widely spoken. It's no coincidence that the other country we often associate with scams, Nigeria, is also large and has many English speakers. There are plenty of scams in (say) China as well, they just target Chinese speakers.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  I get a ton of Chinese language scam robocalls in the US, they're just not specifically memorable because I don't speak Chinese.
tempuser12121 5y ago
I know few companies in India who for some amount would write essay, thesis for students. A large number of them are from US. These companies make very good money from them. Yeah everybody cheats, maybe westerns are very good at hiding it.
mschuster91 5y ago
> this question will appear insulting but do you think there is a cultural reason why there is so much scamming in India or by Indians? I've read many hackernews posts on Indian swe candidate lying on the take home test or CV. 100% of the phone scammers I encountered here in Australia have a South Asian accent. It's not "cultural", e.g. here in Germany we have a huge problem with phone fraud originating in Turkey [1]. The reason why scams are so common for "foreign" countries is relatively simple: fraudsters need people speaking the language pretty well, but do not want attention from domestic law enforcement... meaning you need a remote country with a shoddy/easily bribable law enforcement, speaking the same language as the "target" country, a huge supply of desperate, poor people willing to turn to crime for money and easy ways to transfer money from the target country to the source country and back to wherever the ringleaders are. For English-speaking countries, the biggest country where these conditions meet is India and the Philippines (and historically, Nigeria), for German-speaking countries it's Turkey (with historically close migration links from the post-WW2 "Gastarbeiter" era). [1]: https://www.bka.de/DE/UnsereAufgaben/Deliktsbereiche/BetruegerischeGewinnversprechen/callCenterBetrug.html https://www.bka.de/DE/UnsereAufgaben/Deliktsbereiche/Betrueg...

nelblu 5y ago

Another anecdote: In my home town, a doctor took the government funding to open a covid centre. She then only admitted patients that were mild cases and had chances of survival, for those who had little chance of surviving she would not admit them and send them home. One might think that maybe she was being smart in triaging the patients, but I know her personally and her only motive was money.... Because relatives are less likely to pay for a dead patient than they are for someone who came home alive. Extremely shameful but not surprising.

laxmin 5y ago
Can you please share the name of that Centre? I would love to investigate. Thanks.

laxmin 5y ago

I am a physician and my contribution to this conversation might not be appreciated, but here it goes. I work at a medical university with two medical colleges and a wide healthcare system and we were involved in the clinical trials for Covaxin (India's indigenous vaccine) as we as Covid care and immunisation. As a foot soldier, I am tired of fighting stories such as yours that raise doubt on statistics with anecdotes. The statistics maybe flawed, but we need some scientific rigour in decrying them. Not 'my parents said' stories. The anecdote about faking covid test results is plainly wrong. There is a mechanism for registering every PCR-RT test that is done along with the Aadhaar Unique Identity Number. The results need to be validated at different levels. These have been digitised. You can access your parents records online and verify and validate them too. All this is available on your mobile apps. The digitisation and workflow management make faking the results very difficult if not impossible. Hospitals are specially licensed to treat Covid. Not all hospitals can admit covid patients. It is not like every small clinic or hospital at the corner can simply admit patients. The total bill for ANY COVID RELATED ADMISSIONS are capped. The test fees are capped. There simply is not much incentive to fake results when the fees cannot be charged on whim. Of course, common people like your parents are fed misinformation by the social media (anti-vaxxers movement in the US) and a lot of fear about corporate profiting, big pharma, etc are the usual trope. Big pharma sure profits, but they profit most off such staple as baby powder and insulin. Their profits, data of efficiency on vaccines etc are under glare of scientific scrutiny, while their pain killers and opioids are where they don't get any investigation. The death rates on the other hand in India are under reported and there is a huge backlog that is being cleared right now. You may not believe it, but India's response to the pandemic has been nothing less than fantastic, given the sorry affairs of its health infrastructure. The mechanisms at every level worked satisfactorily. Were they miraculous? no. Efficient given the resources? Yep. It could have been worse. Far far worse. Edit. Oh I forgot to add... our hospitals lost a lot of money and our entire budget. We had to borrow to keep things running and are in the red for the next few years. So all this 'profiteering'... try running a hospital. Edit 2: The local administration commandeered our hospitals to set up Covid wards. Admissions were made electronically for hospital based observational wards. Food and medicines were made free for all the admitted patients. Also, Oxygen. Did I tell about the overtime payments to doctors, nurses and paramedical staff? All from the hospital funds. Patients paid nothing. Thats right. Nothing. Not a cent.

metb 5y ago

As a caring child of old parents, you should get your parents to NL where you can provide the best possible care for them, instead of letting them die in a place where they can't even get a COVID test done.

MandieD 5y ago
If OP’s parents are anything like my dad, they have zero interest in trading their warm homeland with its familiar language and culture for cold northern Europe. My dad would rather die in Texas than live in Germany, much as he enjoyed spending a week here this summer meeting his grandson. Older people have attachments other than their grown-up children.
- reacharavindh 5y ago
  This. My parents have zero interest in spending their older years in a region that doesn’t speak the language they know, colder, and has simply a different way of life than theirs not to mention their social circle. I wholeheartedly agree with their choice, and will do my best to help them where they are.
  - rjv8 5y ago
    When millions are dying around them helplessly for want of good care, it seems cruel to let them fend for themselves in their old age, where they are scared to consult a doctor. If they are not willing to come to you, shouldn't you visit, and take care of them in these difficult times?
    - nonamechicken 5y ago
      I have been also wondering about this. My impression is that Tamil Nadu is much better in terms of health care compared to many Indian states. So, its strange that the parents are refusing to get tested. I am thinking that the parents are afraid to take public transport, and they don't want to burden their NRI son/daughter, so are making up excuses.

keewee7 5y ago

The anglophile Indian elite is surprisingly ignorant of what is going on in their own country. The anglophile Indian elite also controls many aspects of the country. This out-of-touch anglophile elite is the reason India is so dysfunctional, even more than other poor developing countries.

api 5y ago
That's interesting because for a long time there's been this right-wing narrative about how "India benefited from British colonization." I suppose the British did introduce some technology and civic systems, but they also probably fractured the society and created a new kind of caste system. How much of today's seeming culture of corruption in India is a legacy of colonialism vs. how much was there already? I'm asking because I'm only looking from a distance. Also makes me wonder if the Chinese cultural revolution, while a disastrous failure on very many levels, might have erased a lot of the legacy of past colonialism... for the same reason that a gigantic natural disaster might lead to shiny new infrastructure after everything gets rebuilt.
pratik661 5y ago
This is an empirically accurate assessment. The priorities of the Anglophone elite (which dominate the IAS and other parts of the admin) are divorced from the priorities of the rest of the country. This manifests in issues akin to what they call “structural racism “ in the US. Ie: budgeting priorities; India over budgets IITs and other elite institutions over other colleges and primary education. This results in a system with excellent top universities, but a steep drop in educational quality in tier 2 institutions (and very low educational outcomes in public primary and secondary schools). The government also focuses on agricultural price stability over farm income (ie banning agricultural exports during high prices). One can argue that the popularity of Modi and the other regional satraps (with language based sub nationalism) is a result of this institutional bias. Imagine how you would vote if you couldn’t participate in the economy of your hometown because all the street signs/store names were in a language you couldn’t read.
- selimthegrim 5y ago

agumonkey 5y ago

It's not as bad but it's not too different from other countries. Trust has evaporated in France, it didn't devolve into full on medical scam like what you describe, but the feeling is the same. People don't trust doctors or nurses and can't go willingly there (hence the limited vaccination rate).

sofixa 5y ago
> hence the limited vaccination rate). Of checks notes 73% of all eligible ( 5 years or older, all doses required ( booster included), and it was 12 years or older until yesterday, so there's a huge drop since then). Many were forced by restrictions on everyday life, but still, that's certainly not "limited".

nonamechicken 5y ago

If they are worried about hospitals, please request them to go to any of the independent labs that does covid tests. These labs are not connected to hospitals, they get paid only for the test, so doesn't matter to them whether the patient is positive or not. Many in my family did that. Also, when one of my family members got positive during the first peak, they went to a local government hospital (small town). They got really great care (including 4-5 doses of some injection worth ~10000 Rs per dose if I remember correctly, free food etc), and paid absolutely nothing.

blocked_again 5y ago

India compromises of 28 states. And all most all of them have a population bigger than New Zeland and some of them even have populations bigger than Brazil. Stop over generalizing your experiences with one state in India with entire India. What one experiences in Bihar or UP would be completely different from what one experience in Kerala or Goa for example. Be specific when talking about your experience in India.

selimthegrim 5y ago
*is comprised of e: Muphry’s Law got me. Comprises or is composed of is fine.
- blocked_again 5y ago
  The point of language is to communicate. As long as you understand what the person is saying it's good enough. Once you start cherry picking on the syntax itself you are missing the actual point of why the language was invented in the first place.
  - spiffistan 5y ago
    Not when what you write (compromises) literally mean something radically different. That’s not syntax.
    - blocked_again 5y ago
      You still understand the context right. What's the point of cherry-picking then?
      - programmer_dude 5y ago
        I don't think you understand what cherry-picking means. Also syntax, grammar and pronunciation are important. Understanding the context is not enough.

2-718-281-828 5y ago

Sander_Marechal 5y ago
Source? Because that sounds like a whole bunch of conspiracy theories packed together.
- 2-718-281-828 5y ago
  source for what? you're welcome to use google btw. might save us some time.
  - maaanu 5y ago
    One can make any statement and if the "opposition" wants to see some proof you just deflect it and require them to bring proof that your statement is incorrect? That sounds incredible one-sided.
    - 2-718-281-828 5y ago
      i'm asking for what do you want a proof ...
- tloup 5y ago
  It's because it is. The money they get from intubating and all care required covers the cost and makes a little profit, but there is no reason at all why they would do that to a person that doesn't need it. It takes a heavy toll on the doctors and nurses too. If a hospital director would run rampant and tell docs to willy nilly intubate someone it would be all over the news and doctors wouldn't agree to it either (they are in very short supply in Germany and wouldn't bother putting their reputation on the line). You also have to be aware that around 25% of all Germans are in one way or another prone to believe in conspiracy theories, e.g. great reset and so on. Sadly I only have a German source on this, but this was a major point of discussion in the long running "Mitte Studie" which is one of the best and most rigorous studies about Germans and their political beliefs.

slowhand09 5y ago

The [US]CDC director just said over 75% of “covid deaths” occurred in people with at least four comorbidities. Since the US administration can’t shut down covid, suddenly all this data is getting shared publicly.

wumpus 5y ago
The whole point of studying excess deaths is to figure out covid's contribution over and above the usual number of deaths due to these pretty common conditions (like high blood pressure.)

sabujp 5y ago

my in laws ordered a covid test, paid via paytm, the person came and took the sample, took the money and never returned results.

programmer_dude 5y ago
Did you order a Thyrocare test by any chance?
- sabujp 5y ago
  no, it was not a thyrocare, might have been a local contractor working for apollo. However, my mom went recently and for the return booked an at home travel test collection through https://www.metropolisindia.com/covid-19-test https://www.metropolisindia.com/covid-19-test and was able to get an rt-pcr result in less than 24 hrs.

triceratops 5y ago

If your parents don't have symptoms, or have manageable symptoms and are self-isolating, why bother testing? As long as they're fully vaccinated they've done their absolute best in this situation.

kenjackson 5y ago
I think the self-isolation part is key. If they're doing that as if they have Covid then I agree with you. And honestly, I think the commenters parents have a fair point about being in line with other likely Covid infected people.
nradov 5y ago
There are additional outpatient therapies that can be medically indicated depending on symptoms, risk factors, and locally approved care protocols. Most physicians will only prescribe those therapies based on a positive PCR test. Some of those therapies include monoclonal antibodies (less effective now with the Omicron variant) or a brief course of fluvoxamine. But for vaccinated patients with mild symptoms and no major risk factors, staying home and avoiding public testing sites is a reasonable approach.

andreygrehov 5y ago

Another anecdote from the US (New York). A friend of mine works as a cop. One day someone got shot and he had to help get the victim to a hospital. The victim was bleeding blood and eventually died in that hospital. A few hours later, the hospital provided the cause of death as COVID, because they found out that the victim had the virus ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

aluksi 5y ago

So much for the self-righteous angst. As an Indian 'expat', what did you do to help? What is it about it that is so surprising. It's obvious that being a low income country, the health care is not the best, but compared to the rest of the world they are doing alright.

reacharavindh 5y ago
I hope you feel better that you called out on the righteousness of someone who highlights a problem. How dare someone speak of a problem when you can happily live in an ignorant world where everybody always speaks of how good things are. In the interest of a civil discourse. I will say that I did mean that I am not surprised by the fact that the stats are not correct because I am aware of the ground reality from my anecdotal sources that point in the same direction. Not that my country does or doesn’t do anything. The first step to solving a problem is recognising that it exists, and not wish washing it away. As an Indian, I’m sad that you’re not angry.
srean 5y ago
> being a low income country, the health care is not the best The Indian state of Kerala would like to differ. States and leadership that are more keen on disrupting the social fabric, polarize it to gain votes, sure that would divert resources into such harmful instruments. The consequences were well observed as dead bodies by the thousands buried on river sand bars or floating down the water, with government officials working to conceal the evidence by removing religious commemorative markings left on the sand graves.
- nonamechicken 5y ago
  > The Indian state of Kerala would like to differ. Kerala chief minister who is a communist is coming to US for health care next week. https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/kerala-chief-minister-pinarayi-vijayan-heads-to-usa-1896827-2022-01-06 https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/kerala-chief-minister-...

victor106 5y ago

Most Hospitals in India are a really big scam. Many of my colleagues got sick in Hyderabad and from what I hear the hospitals directly sell drugs in black. Three of them got admitted to yashodahospitals (https://www.yashodahospitals.com/ https://www.yashodahospitals.com/) and all three of them had to pay 5x the price for Remdesivir. The worst part is this was sold to them by the hospital management. Also, in India, when a doctor refers you to a diagnostic center for a lab test, the diagnostic center pays the doctor money in the form of a kickback. It’s pathetic. I live in the US and the healthcare situation is bad but not as bad as in India. You would never want to get sick in India and visit a hospital there.

OJFord 5y ago

> As stupid as it sounds, I could not force my parents to go and wait in the line to get COVID test, after he says “I believe I don’t have COVID now. But if I go to the testing center that is so badly managed and understaffed where only people with obvious high level of COVID are brought to get official result, I will get COVID there!”. May I ask why you wanted them to? Honestly his response sounds rational to me.

javajosh 5y ago
It does sound rational, but incomplete. The missing piece is the one where he searches for (and hopefully finds) an alternative where he can get tested without increasing risk of infection. For example, tracking down an at-home test (he could have used one of the 1M+ tests that Florida recently allowed to expire).
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
reacharavindh 5y ago
My parents visited my sister for 2 days. They traveled by a private car, but must have stopped for food along the way. After they have been back, both of them experienced fatigue and cold symptoms. As much as it is normal for them to experience after a trip, I wanted them to rule out COVID early. I have heard that early diagnosis and treatment for COVID at their age can be a life saving difference. If I experienced the same symptoms here in NL, I’d have also taken a test myself just to be sure that I am not spreading it around. His decision is rational after he explained the reason to me. However, I wish that reason doesn’t exist and that people can get tested without such concerns.

instagraham 5y ago

As an Indian, I can tell you that every single family I know has lost someone to COVID. But this part of India wasn't as torn apart as the cities like Delhi or Bangalore. Or like rural India, whose death toll we never counted. Both sides of the ideological split here were arguing over the stats until the Ganges swelled up with bodies. But even then, the right continues to deny the extent of death.

dathinab 5y ago

Are home/self tests an option? I mean if it's just about knowing it yourself so that you can get yourself PCR tested when you known you likely have it (and as such might soon need medical support). That seems like a valid option for me, though only if available and hospitalized reasonable priced. For be the difference between self-tests rapid tests and test station rapid tests seem to mainly be: - if you have self-test - if you can afford it (test station rapid tests are up to some limit payed by health care, in my case) - if you need the digital certificate that you did a tests (some places require vaccination + test) - self-test produce more wast through additional packaging, non-reusable plastic tubes etc.

complexmango 5y ago

I’m from India, and have plenty of family and friends there in close contact, and I have literally never heard of anything as ridiculous as this yet. No idea why this is a top voted comment.

rramadass 5y ago

Why is this upvoted? This is just "fearmongering" BS. The parent is generalizing from his Parents response who it seems belong to the irrational "don't get the vaccine" crowd. They are reflecting their own prejudices onto the Doctors/Nurses/Health Service Infrastructure who have done a fantastic job amidst trying circumstances.

nonamechicken 5y ago
I think many users from Reddit's /r/india are here. I recognized one user name. After turning /r/india to pretty much anti India, they are doing the same here. And that means I need to leave HN too to stay away from the negativity, just like I had to do with /r/India.